good habits to build before you become an adult
February 16, 2018 7:31 AM Subscribe
my partner and I are at that stage where we're talking about marriage, buying a home, and having kids. we're relatively responsible for this stage of life in terms of job security/health/bills/credit but we want to be like survival prep prepared. what habits should we start building now as future homeowners and parents?
brief deets: we have good jobs, student loans that are on the way to being forgiven for public service. we're socially conscious, value empathy and kindness, and we communicate honestly with each other a lot about our emotions/feelings. we'd like to avoid becoming gentrifiers/rampant consumerists/inactive politically, we have a good social circle, and we are both capable at cooking (I do the vast majority of it currently because I have more disposable time/energy/enthusiasm)
not really looking for habits like the ones listed here, more looking for things that will help us remain emotionally and physically sound through our 30s of being cisheteronormative, child-rearing, homeowning (non-black PoC) adults
our current ideas are
1) breaking the habit of picking up our phones when we're bored so our kids don't imitate a bad habit (she sets time limits for herself, I've reduced usage of timesuck apps like Instagram/Firefox)
2) being intentional about how we eat dinner together (ex not in front of the TV, away from our phones, at the dinner table)
3) spending less on restaurants, shopping, etc
4) starting a scheduled cleaning habit. we tend to do things reactively (when friends come over, when we see something that falls below our level of cleanliness with my level being higher than hers)
5) stretching more. we both have bad lower backs :(
what are the habits that you wish you had formed before you dove into the deep well of responsibility that is being a cisheteronormative adult? what are your resources for learning how to do so?
brief deets: we have good jobs, student loans that are on the way to being forgiven for public service. we're socially conscious, value empathy and kindness, and we communicate honestly with each other a lot about our emotions/feelings. we'd like to avoid becoming gentrifiers/rampant consumerists/inactive politically, we have a good social circle, and we are both capable at cooking (I do the vast majority of it currently because I have more disposable time/energy/enthusiasm)
not really looking for habits like the ones listed here, more looking for things that will help us remain emotionally and physically sound through our 30s of being cisheteronormative, child-rearing, homeowning (non-black PoC) adults
our current ideas are
1) breaking the habit of picking up our phones when we're bored so our kids don't imitate a bad habit (she sets time limits for herself, I've reduced usage of timesuck apps like Instagram/Firefox)
2) being intentional about how we eat dinner together (ex not in front of the TV, away from our phones, at the dinner table)
3) spending less on restaurants, shopping, etc
4) starting a scheduled cleaning habit. we tend to do things reactively (when friends come over, when we see something that falls below our level of cleanliness with my level being higher than hers)
5) stretching more. we both have bad lower backs :(
what are the habits that you wish you had formed before you dove into the deep well of responsibility that is being a cisheteronormative adult? what are your resources for learning how to do so?
I'm 41. The absolute best thing I did for myself in my 20s and 30s was spend conservatively. Saving for retirement from my very first job, but also living below my means and paying off debt, including cars, mortgages, etc., as quickly as possible. My husband and I are very comfortable financially now despite a firmly average middle class income.
Also: make exercise a non-negotiable part of your life, even if it's just a walk in the evenings. (This will also help your backs! And a 45 minute walk a couple of times a week helps us stay focused on our relationship too.)
posted by something something at 7:36 AM on February 16, 2018 [21 favorites]
Also: make exercise a non-negotiable part of your life, even if it's just a walk in the evenings. (This will also help your backs! And a 45 minute walk a couple of times a week helps us stay focused on our relationship too.)
posted by something something at 7:36 AM on February 16, 2018 [21 favorites]
Yes, adding to that last bit: Neighborhood walks, if possible. This is a triple strike: excercise, relationship-building, community-building.
posted by The Toad at 7:41 AM on February 16, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by The Toad at 7:41 AM on February 16, 2018 [11 favorites]
Start couples counseling now while you have few stressors, not when you’re at each other’s throats, ready to jump ship, but feeing trapped by mortgages, kids, and inertia. Perfectly healthy and happy couples can benefit greatly from counseling.
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 7:45 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 7:45 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
Kill debt now when you're young. (This implies having a budget.)
Make volunteering part of your life now so that when kids come along, you can just sweep them up in it and pass that habit down to them.
Create something local that's awesome. My wife wants to build up a Meal Train in our town because she benefitted from friends' help a few years ago, and then this winter she was surprised how easy it was to set up again for a friend. If she creates a permanent thing, it can benefit anyone who needs it and should be pretty self-sustaining.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:47 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
Make volunteering part of your life now so that when kids come along, you can just sweep them up in it and pass that habit down to them.
Create something local that's awesome. My wife wants to build up a Meal Train in our town because she benefitted from friends' help a few years ago, and then this winter she was surprised how easy it was to set up again for a friend. If she creates a permanent thing, it can benefit anyone who needs it and should be pretty self-sustaining.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:47 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
Do you guys know how to cook? Learn to cook. You have no idea how insanely useful it is after you have kids, especially if you aren't the mother.
The other thing is, though, that having kids is going to teach you what you need real quick. So don't feel like to have to over prepare. You have this nice period usually when the first kid is a tiny baby and just shits and sleeps when you can work solely on practicality tweaks.
The only real way to prepare for having older kids who can speak and have opinions is to spend time around kids.
posted by selfnoise at 7:52 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
The other thing is, though, that having kids is going to teach you what you need real quick. So don't feel like to have to over prepare. You have this nice period usually when the first kid is a tiny baby and just shits and sleeps when you can work solely on practicality tweaks.
The only real way to prepare for having older kids who can speak and have opinions is to spend time around kids.
posted by selfnoise at 7:52 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: My wife and for the years up to buying our house of not re-doing our budget when we got a raise or came into some money - instead putting all that money to savings and debt. We were used to our lifestyle (for years we were student, then a one-income household) and really wanted to be on good financial footing so we kept our Ikea furniture for a few years. When we bought our house, we bought things slowly rather than all at once which avoided a cash crunch AND avoided some purchases that we actually didn't need.
If you're the man in this cishet relationship, spend time NOW understanding what emotional labour is and how to proactively perform it so your partner does not default to doing it. It cannot be understated how much maintaining social relationships, sending cards out to friends and family, creating space in your work life for parental responsibilities, buying gifts and planning for life will improve your relationship. These things are a huge burden for women in many cishet relationships and getting out of the pattern of defaulting to the woman is an investment that you ought to make now.
Otherwise - my generalized habit for making a successful marriage is to carve out specific date time. Dinner together is great, but carve out time to have special experiences, to deepen your relationship (vs. just maintaining) and to address issues as they arise. This can be as simple as a neighborhood walk where you hold hands and go on swings together (our summer pleasure of choice.)
posted by notorious medium at 7:53 AM on February 16, 2018 [29 favorites]
If you're the man in this cishet relationship, spend time NOW understanding what emotional labour is and how to proactively perform it so your partner does not default to doing it. It cannot be understated how much maintaining social relationships, sending cards out to friends and family, creating space in your work life for parental responsibilities, buying gifts and planning for life will improve your relationship. These things are a huge burden for women in many cishet relationships and getting out of the pattern of defaulting to the woman is an investment that you ought to make now.
Otherwise - my generalized habit for making a successful marriage is to carve out specific date time. Dinner together is great, but carve out time to have special experiences, to deepen your relationship (vs. just maintaining) and to address issues as they arise. This can be as simple as a neighborhood walk where you hold hands and go on swings together (our summer pleasure of choice.)
posted by notorious medium at 7:53 AM on February 16, 2018 [29 favorites]
Commit to going out on dates every so often. This will be especially important with kids; you get a babysitter for a night and spend time as husband and wife, not just Mommy and Daddy.
If you don't have this down already: learn WHEN and HOW to say no.
posted by pianoblack at 7:54 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you don't have this down already: learn WHEN and HOW to say no.
posted by pianoblack at 7:54 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Commit to follow through and task completion. The noisy gate, coming due bills, and dirty laundry all need to be taken care of appropriately and in a timely manner before they escalate into larger issues.
posted by beaning at 7:55 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by beaning at 7:55 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
I really wish I had focused on eating healthfully earlier. In addition to feeling like I'd be in better health now, I also wish I'd fed my kids less junk food. When children are little, it's super easy and convenient to just take them through a drive-through or buy convenience food. And if you're feeding them McDonald's, they're going to be less attracted to, you know, vegetables. You can develop their palates and your own so that food that's good for you tastes good.
posted by FencingGal at 7:55 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by FencingGal at 7:55 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Civics. Spend at least some of your free time doing something, possibly together, that benefits your community in general (not just writing checks, though that is helpful). My mom did this when I was growing up and it's instilled in me as a thing that "you just do" and sets a tone for your family. This can be things like donating blood (and consider being marrow donors with your background), helping pick up trash on earth day, volunteering for a local board or non-profit or just attending programs and events put on by others if you're not sure what works for you. This is often easier for parents of young kids (lots of volunteering options, mostly within the kid community) but more challenging to get outside just the family-based set of opportunities and it's important to look at the whole community as one which you benefit from and which could benefit from you.
posted by jessamyn at 7:59 AM on February 16, 2018 [17 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 7:59 AM on February 16, 2018 [17 favorites]
Best answer: And take everyone to the library!
posted by jessamyn at 8:03 AM on February 16, 2018 [34 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 8:03 AM on February 16, 2018 [34 favorites]
I wish I had pushed our family to do more outdoor activities like hiking/biking/etc. We enjoy those things but they aren't a part of our lives like I wish they were. We're all mostly indoorsy people, and that's fine, but I think it would have helped my kids to be more conscious of their fitness and health had we made being outdoors together and being active more of a regular thing.
posted by cooker girl at 8:20 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 8:20 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: just dropping in to say that all the comments are all highly appreciated and wonderful, I'm just marking the ones that are very extremely specifically relevant to our lives at this moment (ie we'll probably start doing it this weekend) :)
posted by runt at 8:23 AM on February 16, 2018
posted by runt at 8:23 AM on February 16, 2018
Best answer: One thing my parents did was to take us to the public library every Friday night for a couple of hours, and then to a local family-owned donut shop afterwards. We always really enjoyed the time together as a family, it instilled a lifelong love of reading and an appreciation of community/civic spaces, it gave us things to bond over and talk about throughout the week, it let us all unwind together after a long week, and since we usually ate very healthily the donuts were a fun treat that reinforced all the other positive things about Friday nights!
posted by ClaireBear at 8:25 AM on February 16, 2018 [27 favorites]
posted by ClaireBear at 8:25 AM on February 16, 2018 [27 favorites]
Best answer: Wanted to add: don't skip the donuts! The donuts are important! In my opinion, a lot of liberals have this asceticism about food, somewhat analogous to the way conservatives treat sex. I'm really grateful that we never had this in my family: it made my teenage years and body image issues undoubtedly much more bearable. We ate healthily most of the time and then on occasion splurged a bit, which I think is a good thing to instill in children. Going to the donut shop with my family every Friday reinforced what I think are healthy principles about moderation - that if you eat 90% healthy you can and should enjoy yourself for the other 10%, life is meant to be lived, it's good to relax dietarily on occasion when out with family/friends, and not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
posted by ClaireBear at 8:33 AM on February 16, 2018 [37 favorites]
posted by ClaireBear at 8:33 AM on February 16, 2018 [37 favorites]
Best answer: Since my husband has a bad back, I'll say -- make sure you have good disability insurance.
I do think being able to communicate with each other is the #1 thing you need for a process like this. If you can talk more about your childhood's and recall how your parents acted, that might be helpful in enhancing mutual understanding expectations.
My kid is almost 24 and is getting married soon. When he was a toddler and I was a stay at home mom, I basically watched him constantly because the most distracting screens weren't common back then. (I was on the computer BBs a lot during naps.) As a soon to be grandma (maybe), I've thought about babysitting and phone use. It seems risky to me for the parent or parent substitute to be that visually distracted. I'll probably babysit with very quiet podcasts to help me with boredom, but won't put the phone in front of my face. Well, that's my resolution, anyway.
posted by puddledork at 8:38 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
I do think being able to communicate with each other is the #1 thing you need for a process like this. If you can talk more about your childhood's and recall how your parents acted, that might be helpful in enhancing mutual understanding expectations.
My kid is almost 24 and is getting married soon. When he was a toddler and I was a stay at home mom, I basically watched him constantly because the most distracting screens weren't common back then. (I was on the computer BBs a lot during naps.) As a soon to be grandma (maybe), I've thought about babysitting and phone use. It seems risky to me for the parent or parent substitute to be that visually distracted. I'll probably babysit with very quiet podcasts to help me with boredom, but won't put the phone in front of my face. Well, that's my resolution, anyway.
posted by puddledork at 8:38 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
One thing that kids put a premium on is time. Your commute to your house matters more, your hours at work matter because it effects how much you get to see your kids before their 7pm or 8pm bedtime. When you buy a house, think about where in the area you can work, if see both of you working full-time, etc and where are daycares/schools located in relation to work.
posted by typecloud at 8:43 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by typecloud at 8:43 AM on February 16, 2018 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: one normal ask and one snowflakey addendum:
1) does anybody have any resources on being a non-black PoC homeowner/parent? blogs, books, that sort of thing?
2) I was regularly emotionally abused and semi-regularly physically abused all the years of living with my parents. it led to mental health issues that I've since dealt with and am managing through a mix of therapeutic exercises, pills, self-reflection, and so on. I am deeply afraid of turning into my father who, in many ways, was my (anti-)role model in that I wanted to be his antithesis politically, emotionally, and socially. I plan on going to therapy to deal with some of the lingering doubts about this but does anybody have any experiences/resources/memoirs to share about becoming a good parent after having lived so many years with a really terrible one?
posted by runt at 8:46 AM on February 16, 2018
1) does anybody have any resources on being a non-black PoC homeowner/parent? blogs, books, that sort of thing?
2) I was regularly emotionally abused and semi-regularly physically abused all the years of living with my parents. it led to mental health issues that I've since dealt with and am managing through a mix of therapeutic exercises, pills, self-reflection, and so on. I am deeply afraid of turning into my father who, in many ways, was my (anti-)role model in that I wanted to be his antithesis politically, emotionally, and socially. I plan on going to therapy to deal with some of the lingering doubts about this but does anybody have any experiences/resources/memoirs to share about becoming a good parent after having lived so many years with a really terrible one?
posted by runt at 8:46 AM on February 16, 2018
Learn how to communicate well with each other and fight well if you're not solid on those skills yet.
posted by craven_morhead at 8:46 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by craven_morhead at 8:46 AM on February 16, 2018 [1 favorite]
Make sure you know how to make and maintain friendships -- and then do it. It's a real skill that takes learning and practice and it pays off in so many ways.
posted by mcduff at 8:57 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by mcduff at 8:57 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Re: the abuse thing, I was actually just writing something that addresses a thing that I feel like I've learned from my own abusive upbringing.
Have friends. See your friends. Think about your friends when they're not there and send them articles you think they might like, pick up little things you see at the store you think they might like, etc. Have them over regularly, visit them regularly, and do that even when you have kids. Then make friends with their friends' parents if you can and keep up contact with them. Do activities together. Do the emotional labor to keep up and build friendships, together and separately.
For various reasons—one of them that I wasn't going to mention being that my parents were in an abusive relationship—friendship was something my parents never prioritized and in fact actively discouraged at various points. That made it hard for me to even understand how to make and keep friends. It's still something I have a lot of trouble doing, and I know having social ties is one of those things that presages happiness and health on a lot of levels, even if it's a pain to keep up with people. Our social circles often only shrink as we get older, so make this a priority, even if it means something like scheduling literal friend date nights, both with and without your partner.
This is something I'm working on myself, but it's definitely a good habit to get in early. My husband and I didn't and I think it's been bad for us. But I also think this is one of those things that when you grow up in an abusive household, you get used to not doing, and with your partner you may tend to shrink together away from the world. Doing that can in fact foster some of the conditions that lead you to repeat cycle-of-abuse types of patterns, when you feel stressed by the world, have no one but your partner, invest too much in your partner, see your partner as both the cause and cure of all your problems, etc. Don't be an island. Open up your life. I think it'll be good.
posted by limeonaire at 8:57 AM on February 16, 2018 [34 favorites]
Have friends. See your friends. Think about your friends when they're not there and send them articles you think they might like, pick up little things you see at the store you think they might like, etc. Have them over regularly, visit them regularly, and do that even when you have kids. Then make friends with their friends' parents if you can and keep up contact with them. Do activities together. Do the emotional labor to keep up and build friendships, together and separately.
For various reasons—one of them that I wasn't going to mention being that my parents were in an abusive relationship—friendship was something my parents never prioritized and in fact actively discouraged at various points. That made it hard for me to even understand how to make and keep friends. It's still something I have a lot of trouble doing, and I know having social ties is one of those things that presages happiness and health on a lot of levels, even if it's a pain to keep up with people. Our social circles often only shrink as we get older, so make this a priority, even if it means something like scheduling literal friend date nights, both with and without your partner.
This is something I'm working on myself, but it's definitely a good habit to get in early. My husband and I didn't and I think it's been bad for us. But I also think this is one of those things that when you grow up in an abusive household, you get used to not doing, and with your partner you may tend to shrink together away from the world. Doing that can in fact foster some of the conditions that lead you to repeat cycle-of-abuse types of patterns, when you feel stressed by the world, have no one but your partner, invest too much in your partner, see your partner as both the cause and cure of all your problems, etc. Don't be an island. Open up your life. I think it'll be good.
posted by limeonaire at 8:57 AM on February 16, 2018 [34 favorites]
Pay attention to parent and dependent-related benefits at your place of work. This is something I always glossed over before, but obviously becomes super relevant when you have kids! How much more will you health insurance premiums be with dependents? Is there a childcare benefit (beyond just a dependent care FSA -- some places offer subsidized onsite childcare, some offer backup care, etc)? What is the parental leave policy -- do you have to use up all of your sick/vacation time as part of your leave, is it paid/unpaid? What accommodations are available for pumping at work? If you work somewhere that seems sub-optimal in these areas (ask colleagues who are parents, in addition to HR) and you are able to find a new employer, start laying groundwork to find a new job that is more parent-friendly. Or start advocating for these kind of benefits in your current workplace.
posted by wsquared at 9:24 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by wsquared at 9:24 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you are savvy enough to ask this question, you're probably going to make out just fine.
It's not actually a habit, but develop an understanding about money. Is it your money and my money, or is it all our money? Are they your bills and my bills, or are they all our bills?
posted by SemiSalt at 9:40 AM on February 16, 2018 [7 favorites]
It's not actually a habit, but develop an understanding about money. Is it your money and my money, or is it all our money? Are they your bills and my bills, or are they all our bills?
posted by SemiSalt at 9:40 AM on February 16, 2018 [7 favorites]
Best answer: Establish a “family meeting” time each week to sit down and talk about things. We use this time to talk about request to-dos, long term projects, and just to talk about what’s on our minds. Now that we have a baby, I value this even more. I have a place to “park” the things I want to talk about (we use Trello to record topics), but don’t have time to during the week. Then on Sundays we use the times I’m feeding the baby to go through our topics. It was very helpful to start doing this long before baby arrived as it also gave us a chance to practice communication skills.
posted by CMcG at 10:03 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by CMcG at 10:03 AM on February 16, 2018 [3 favorites]
Pick something simple and nail it down as a tradition.
Like, at our house Friday night dinner is homemade pizza (except Black Friday, which might be leftovers, but maybe still pizza). When we were newlyweds it was with white wine and a movie; now, with three kids left at home, it's two large pizzas among us -- but it's still Pizza Friday. Oh, we change the recipe from time to time, and we try different ingredients, and in the summer we even grill it!
posted by wenestvedt at 10:12 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Like, at our house Friday night dinner is homemade pizza (except Black Friday, which might be leftovers, but maybe still pizza). When we were newlyweds it was with white wine and a movie; now, with three kids left at home, it's two large pizzas among us -- but it's still Pizza Friday. Oh, we change the recipe from time to time, and we try different ingredients, and in the summer we even grill it!
posted by wenestvedt at 10:12 AM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
And GODDAMN YES GET TO THE LIBRARY!
Free books, free DVDs, free music CDs. Also, free video games, free museum passes, and free story time. Also, probably free access to commercial database like Ancestry.com and Consumer Reports, and maybe even computer help. Free DVD players, video game consoles, Cricut machines, and foreign language devices.
Also, friendly staff who have seen a million new families and are happy to tell you what they know.
OMG, get in your car now now NOW and go the the library!
This message brought to you by the trustees of your local branch library.
posted by wenestvedt at 10:17 AM on February 16, 2018 [8 favorites]
Free books, free DVDs, free music CDs. Also, free video games, free museum passes, and free story time. Also, probably free access to commercial database like Ancestry.com and Consumer Reports, and maybe even computer help. Free DVD players, video game consoles, Cricut machines, and foreign language devices.
Also, friendly staff who have seen a million new families and are happy to tell you what they know.
OMG, get in your car now now NOW and go the the library!
This message brought to you by the trustees of your local branch library.
posted by wenestvedt at 10:17 AM on February 16, 2018 [8 favorites]
Best answer: ...but does anybody have any experiences/resources/memoirs to share about becoming a good parent after having lived so many years with a really terrible one?
I often think of the Frank Turner line that goes, "Well, I've tried so hard to not turn into my father. But if I only ever skip out his choices, will I ever choose better?"
For me, he's saying that you are right to want to not be that guy, but make sure that you stake out something that you want to be and move positively toward that.
My parents were great but not perfect. I respect them a lot, and sometimes I get tied up trying to think what they would tell me to do (since they live far away) -- so much so that I forget to think about what is important to me.
You're gonna be awesome. :7)
posted by wenestvedt at 10:27 AM on February 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
I often think of the Frank Turner line that goes, "Well, I've tried so hard to not turn into my father. But if I only ever skip out his choices, will I ever choose better?"
For me, he's saying that you are right to want to not be that guy, but make sure that you stake out something that you want to be and move positively toward that.
My parents were great but not perfect. I respect them a lot, and sometimes I get tied up trying to think what they would tell me to do (since they live far away) -- so much so that I forget to think about what is important to me.
You're gonna be awesome. :7)
posted by wenestvedt at 10:27 AM on February 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
Best answer: friendship was something my parents never prioritized and in fact actively discouraged at various points.
Exactly. I grew up with parents who weren't abusive but were definitely neglectful, sort of wrapped up in their own stuff a lot of the time. And they had a lot of secrets and we were supposed to keep them. This led me to be very good at being independent and resourceful but not always understanding how to get along with people and certainly not how to get along with people when the going was difficult (as in just normal ups and downs, not like someone is abusive. I'd treat most bumps in the road as either "this is over" or "I'll tolerate anything" and neither is that helpful). So learning how to resolve conflicts and work on them is useful. Letting children know that it's okay to disagree but not okay to ________ (fill in blanks here, but stuff like yelling, calling people stupid etc) and that just because you feel a thing doesn't always mean you have to DO something about it, sit with discomfort, etc.
Agree with wenestvedt, it's often more helpful to frame things as moving towards something and not just "never be that person" Both of my deeply broken parents did have lessons to me that were valuable, and in liking myself I do like some things about them that helped me be what I am. So you can still not want to be them and you certainly don't have to forgive them or forget what they did but trying to find good aspects can keep you from salting the earth from that part of your life which will probably serve you better as you get older. Kids want to know about where they come from and it would be good to have a story that you are comfortable with, about that.
posted by jessamyn at 11:51 AM on February 16, 2018 [14 favorites]
Exactly. I grew up with parents who weren't abusive but were definitely neglectful, sort of wrapped up in their own stuff a lot of the time. And they had a lot of secrets and we were supposed to keep them. This led me to be very good at being independent and resourceful but not always understanding how to get along with people and certainly not how to get along with people when the going was difficult (as in just normal ups and downs, not like someone is abusive. I'd treat most bumps in the road as either "this is over" or "I'll tolerate anything" and neither is that helpful). So learning how to resolve conflicts and work on them is useful. Letting children know that it's okay to disagree but not okay to ________ (fill in blanks here, but stuff like yelling, calling people stupid etc) and that just because you feel a thing doesn't always mean you have to DO something about it, sit with discomfort, etc.
Agree with wenestvedt, it's often more helpful to frame things as moving towards something and not just "never be that person" Both of my deeply broken parents did have lessons to me that were valuable, and in liking myself I do like some things about them that helped me be what I am. So you can still not want to be them and you certainly don't have to forgive them or forget what they did but trying to find good aspects can keep you from salting the earth from that part of your life which will probably serve you better as you get older. Kids want to know about where they come from and it would be good to have a story that you are comfortable with, about that.
posted by jessamyn at 11:51 AM on February 16, 2018 [14 favorites]
This might seem strange- but I would add regularly identifying your bedrock priorities (fitness? art? career? etc.) As you start to weave other people and commitments into your life, you will likely find that the pure TIME to devote to your individual deep-core values dwindles. For example: I liked the idea of home ownership. But soon resented the sheer amount of time and money it took to maintain AND took away from activities I valued more. (Because I really hadn't sorted that out beforehand, buying the fixer-uppery house was a mistake) As you make more and more decisions and commitments in your journey, you do not want to find yourself living a life entirely based on your spouse's priorities, presumed shared priorities, or ones belonging to yourself that you're not even aware of.
posted by mrmarley at 2:36 PM on February 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by mrmarley at 2:36 PM on February 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
does anybody have any experiences/resources/memoirs to share about becoming a good parent after having lived so many years with a really terrible one?
Yeah my dad was/is a narcissist and abused me psychologically and emotionally my entire life. I decided I wasn't going to do those things to my kids and I haven't. I don't expect them to agree with me all of the time, I recognize and appreciate that they are their own people, I don't talk down to them, I accept their best effort at face value, I don't yell and scream at them, I don't hit them, and I damned sure don't make them feel like they wish they were never born.
You're already miles ahead of the way your parents treated you. You're gonna be a great dad.
posted by cooker girl at 2:51 PM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Yeah my dad was/is a narcissist and abused me psychologically and emotionally my entire life. I decided I wasn't going to do those things to my kids and I haven't. I don't expect them to agree with me all of the time, I recognize and appreciate that they are their own people, I don't talk down to them, I accept their best effort at face value, I don't yell and scream at them, I don't hit them, and I damned sure don't make them feel like they wish they were never born.
You're already miles ahead of the way your parents treated you. You're gonna be a great dad.
posted by cooker girl at 2:51 PM on February 16, 2018 [2 favorites]
Be kind to each other. I know, it sounds obvious, but I mean really practice being kind to each other. My partner and I got into a few habits that help us do this:
- We are both introverts and we have had a house rule that if one person needs "introvert time", the other person will clear out of the house for a few hours so the introverted person can putter around at home for a bit to recharge.
- Hugs can be requested at any time, and they are at least a minute long. Something happens that makes a long hug more restorative than a brief hug, and it really helps on dark days.
- We always kiss each other goodbye.
- But the best one is this: At any time, we can say "please say 7 nice things to me" or "say 7 reasons you love me" and we go back and forth until we've both said 7 things. The number changes, but it should be more than 5. This way you get serious things like "you helped me find a therapist" but because it's hard to think of that many Ultimate Serious Things, you also get silly things like "it makes me laugh when you gossip with the cats about me". The silly things are actually really important to the success of this practice, as they bring joy and camaraderie to it.
We have a 7 week old and it is HARD to both be this sleep deprived, and the other night we were talking about how we'll survive as a couple and my partner said, "Do you want to say nice things?" And we did, and it was so helpful. I'm very glad we have years of practice with this.
posted by sadmadglad at 2:52 PM on February 16, 2018 [16 favorites]
- We are both introverts and we have had a house rule that if one person needs "introvert time", the other person will clear out of the house for a few hours so the introverted person can putter around at home for a bit to recharge.
- Hugs can be requested at any time, and they are at least a minute long. Something happens that makes a long hug more restorative than a brief hug, and it really helps on dark days.
- We always kiss each other goodbye.
- But the best one is this: At any time, we can say "please say 7 nice things to me" or "say 7 reasons you love me" and we go back and forth until we've both said 7 things. The number changes, but it should be more than 5. This way you get serious things like "you helped me find a therapist" but because it's hard to think of that many Ultimate Serious Things, you also get silly things like "it makes me laugh when you gossip with the cats about me". The silly things are actually really important to the success of this practice, as they bring joy and camaraderie to it.
We have a 7 week old and it is HARD to both be this sleep deprived, and the other night we were talking about how we'll survive as a couple and my partner said, "Do you want to say nice things?" And we did, and it was so helpful. I'm very glad we have years of practice with this.
posted by sadmadglad at 2:52 PM on February 16, 2018 [16 favorites]
Write a goals list every [time period]. Plan out say 20 goals, for example, things like: Relationship (Have 10 date nights), Career (Finish X project, Take specific professional development course, Ask for a raise), Home (Declutter basement, Paint bedroom), Family (Tape-record an interview with Grandma), Friends (Host a games night, Host a dinner party), Money (Save 8K, Submit taxes on time), Discipline (Avoid late night internet), Physical (Run a 2K, drink more water, eat more plants), etc.
The more concrete each goal is, the better (so "Host these 3 events" or "Run a 2K) is better than a vague "See friends more" or "Exercise"). It's more fun to have distinct "end points", where the task is unequivocally completed and feels good, rather than an ongoing goal that's never "done" til the year is over.
Sit down together, talk through each of your plans (they can be different for each family member with some overlap), then make a little craft project of writing them out attractively with Sharpie on a coloured posterboard, and sign them.
Then hang them somewhere semi-private (in the bedroom or closet?), buy a big pack of fun sparkly stickers, and every time a goal is achieved, make a little event of putting a sticker on the chart (ie, don't do it alone- wait til your partner/kids are present so it's a fun little moment). For goals like "Have 10 date nights this year", you get 10 stickers.
This has become an annual tradition in my house and it's shockingly wonderful how motivating it is! It can also help you each realize what's important to your partner so you can better support them.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 6:21 PM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
The more concrete each goal is, the better (so "Host these 3 events" or "Run a 2K) is better than a vague "See friends more" or "Exercise"). It's more fun to have distinct "end points", where the task is unequivocally completed and feels good, rather than an ongoing goal that's never "done" til the year is over.
Sit down together, talk through each of your plans (they can be different for each family member with some overlap), then make a little craft project of writing them out attractively with Sharpie on a coloured posterboard, and sign them.
Then hang them somewhere semi-private (in the bedroom or closet?), buy a big pack of fun sparkly stickers, and every time a goal is achieved, make a little event of putting a sticker on the chart (ie, don't do it alone- wait til your partner/kids are present so it's a fun little moment). For goals like "Have 10 date nights this year", you get 10 stickers.
This has become an annual tradition in my house and it's shockingly wonderful how motivating it is! It can also help you each realize what's important to your partner so you can better support them.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 6:21 PM on February 16, 2018 [6 favorites]
Best answer: First, in answer to your update. DBT has a good set of skills for trauma survivors. As a fellow abuse survivor, it has been great for me. And in light of your update, what kind of contact do you want each of your parent(s) to have with your child? Role play having the conversation around that now, before you even have a baby, so that you can be confident in your decision. Imagine objections that your parent might raise. Practice responding calmly.
To address your initial question: Talk now about your assumptions. Your beliefs and expectations will likely change over time, but taking the time to talk about these things in depth now can prevent a lot of hiccoughs down the line, and gives your a format for discussing your changing desires. Babies require so much logistical stuff, and of course things change unexpectedly so you cannot plan for everything. BUT, so many couples just assume that they know what they would do, and because they are so much like their partner, the assumption extends to including a belief that their partner agrees and there's no need to discuss such an obvious thing.
I highly recommend the work of John and Julie Gottman. John started out researching healthy parent/child attachments and then shifted his focus to marital relationships. They also focus on skills.
Where would a baby sleep? In your bed? Bassinet? In their own room with the mom? Alone in their own room? In a crib? In a Montessori floor bed? Baby may have other ideas, what will you do if baby refuses your preferred sleeping arrangement? What will you do if baby refuses to sleep at all and you are both desperate?
Who will stay home with baby? Will baby go straight to daycare? Does work offer parental leave? Paid? Unpaid? Who will get up in the middle of the night? What will baby feeding entail? What is plan B for baby feeding? How do you feel about toddler feeding (pro-tip, read Ellyn Satter now rather than later) Diapers? Who will change? What kind do you want to use? (If cloth, maybe start stashing some now? Sometimes mom groups on facebook have people giving them away or selling them.)
What kind of school do you want to send your kiddo to? Private? Public? Montessori? Boarding school in the teenage years? Read what Nikole Hannah-Jones has to say about her extensive research of school segregation in the US. This will impact your child no matter what your racial or ethnic background. Speaking of race, talk about how you plan to talk about race with and around your child.
What tv shows will you be 100% annoyed for your child to be obsessed with? What media do you hope your child grows to love?
What are you afraid you'll miss out on after the baby arrives? What parts of parenting are you most excited about?
Get the name and number of recommended plumbers, electricians, etc from neighbors and friends as soon as you move in, rather than waiting until you have an emergency. Get a list of house maintenance tasks (there are some that are split up among yearly, monthly, etc) and check off which ones you can learn, or find out who does them. Like cleaning out dryer vents, which is actually a thing.
Like others have said, have a framework for what you DO want to be and do as a family, rather than a list of things you want to avoid. Make them into SMART goals that you can track. This is good for setting examples for your kids, that everyone can have goals.
posted by bilabial at 11:28 AM on February 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
To address your initial question: Talk now about your assumptions. Your beliefs and expectations will likely change over time, but taking the time to talk about these things in depth now can prevent a lot of hiccoughs down the line, and gives your a format for discussing your changing desires. Babies require so much logistical stuff, and of course things change unexpectedly so you cannot plan for everything. BUT, so many couples just assume that they know what they would do, and because they are so much like their partner, the assumption extends to including a belief that their partner agrees and there's no need to discuss such an obvious thing.
I highly recommend the work of John and Julie Gottman. John started out researching healthy parent/child attachments and then shifted his focus to marital relationships. They also focus on skills.
Where would a baby sleep? In your bed? Bassinet? In their own room with the mom? Alone in their own room? In a crib? In a Montessori floor bed? Baby may have other ideas, what will you do if baby refuses your preferred sleeping arrangement? What will you do if baby refuses to sleep at all and you are both desperate?
Who will stay home with baby? Will baby go straight to daycare? Does work offer parental leave? Paid? Unpaid? Who will get up in the middle of the night? What will baby feeding entail? What is plan B for baby feeding? How do you feel about toddler feeding (pro-tip, read Ellyn Satter now rather than later) Diapers? Who will change? What kind do you want to use? (If cloth, maybe start stashing some now? Sometimes mom groups on facebook have people giving them away or selling them.)
What kind of school do you want to send your kiddo to? Private? Public? Montessori? Boarding school in the teenage years? Read what Nikole Hannah-Jones has to say about her extensive research of school segregation in the US. This will impact your child no matter what your racial or ethnic background. Speaking of race, talk about how you plan to talk about race with and around your child.
What tv shows will you be 100% annoyed for your child to be obsessed with? What media do you hope your child grows to love?
What are you afraid you'll miss out on after the baby arrives? What parts of parenting are you most excited about?
Get the name and number of recommended plumbers, electricians, etc from neighbors and friends as soon as you move in, rather than waiting until you have an emergency. Get a list of house maintenance tasks (there are some that are split up among yearly, monthly, etc) and check off which ones you can learn, or find out who does them. Like cleaning out dryer vents, which is actually a thing.
Like others have said, have a framework for what you DO want to be and do as a family, rather than a list of things you want to avoid. Make them into SMART goals that you can track. This is good for setting examples for your kids, that everyone can have goals.
posted by bilabial at 11:28 AM on February 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
I find that maintenance and operations costs are underestimated -- or ignored! -- in a whole lot of USian culture/planning.
Tying it in to some of the advice above -- don't buy a house near the top of your time-and-money budget unless you enjoy and value doing the maintenance yourself. It's very possible to enjoy it, to mix your labor with the building and have it grow around your family like a nacreous shell, and to have Project and Cleanup time be a pretty good family activity. (So educational. So, so educational. My first exposure to calculus was when we had a inflow - outflow pond-draining problem. Our animals got parasites which had to be out-environmented. I have strong opinions about the grain in wood. )
posted by clew at 1:39 PM on February 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
Tying it in to some of the advice above -- don't buy a house near the top of your time-and-money budget unless you enjoy and value doing the maintenance yourself. It's very possible to enjoy it, to mix your labor with the building and have it grow around your family like a nacreous shell, and to have Project and Cleanup time be a pretty good family activity. (So educational. So, so educational. My first exposure to calculus was when we had a inflow - outflow pond-draining problem. Our animals got parasites which had to be out-environmented. I have strong opinions about the grain in wood. )
posted by clew at 1:39 PM on February 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
Well, setting aside the fact that we don't want kids or a mortgage, my partner and I are making baby steps in the direction of "responsible". For my part: learning some very modest self-sufficiency in the form of food gardening and preserving, and saving more than I can really "afford" to be saving. Learning to be more patient. Learning to be a little more open. Being sure to touch one another in the night whenever we wake fleetingly, to show that we are still there.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:04 PM on February 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:04 PM on February 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
Mostly, pick hobbies and jobs that allow you to get better at them over time.
Job: any time you're fortunate enough to get a raise, don't readjust your spending to spend 100% of it. Try to work in a job that gives raises or has some other way up, instead of status quo... forever.
Food/diet: exercise three times a week, picking something you improve at over time, and pretty much anything works. Figure out what diet works for you longterm. Some folks have tolerance for lots of carbs, others don't, some don't do well with tons of meat or processed stuff, etc. The human body isn't supposed to get bigger every year.
Other: facial lotion with sunscreen in it. By the time you realize this wouldda helped, well, ya can't quite go back.
posted by talldean at 7:11 PM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Job: any time you're fortunate enough to get a raise, don't readjust your spending to spend 100% of it. Try to work in a job that gives raises or has some other way up, instead of status quo... forever.
Food/diet: exercise three times a week, picking something you improve at over time, and pretty much anything works. Figure out what diet works for you longterm. Some folks have tolerance for lots of carbs, others don't, some don't do well with tons of meat or processed stuff, etc. The human body isn't supposed to get bigger every year.
Other: facial lotion with sunscreen in it. By the time you realize this wouldda helped, well, ya can't quite go back.
posted by talldean at 7:11 PM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Best answer: This isn't a habit-habit, but I think it's worth developing an open dialogue around Sticky Big Life Legal Issues. After my husband and I got married, we locked down our legal documents with a family lawyer for such fun things as "If I fall off the side of a mountain and am in a vegetative coma, I want to make sure you are the one to pull the plug."
It is one of those things I hope we will go decades and decades before we ever have to use, but boy does it give me a lot of peace of mind. We are now doing a ton of eldercare for my father, and this has also prompted a lot of additional conversations in this vein.
We also have a standing Saturday morning appointment for Relationship Check-In. I need so much downtime after work that unless something is an emergency, it's much easier for me to deal with "So should we DIY this annoying plumbing issue or hire someone" type conversations during our designated time on the weekend than as they pop up.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:44 PM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
It is one of those things I hope we will go decades and decades before we ever have to use, but boy does it give me a lot of peace of mind. We are now doing a ton of eldercare for my father, and this has also prompted a lot of additional conversations in this vein.
We also have a standing Saturday morning appointment for Relationship Check-In. I need so much downtime after work that unless something is an emergency, it's much easier for me to deal with "So should we DIY this annoying plumbing issue or hire someone" type conversations during our designated time on the weekend than as they pop up.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:44 PM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
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Have fun. Every day, if possible. Laughing with your kids is like, the best for every single thing. Poop explosions and really bad junior high days. Cultivate a sense of joy.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:35 AM on February 16, 2018 [13 favorites]