Come here you ridiculous beast.
February 15, 2018 7:09 AM Subscribe
I need to train my mother's dog to walk up onto the porch on command to be let into the house (vs. just standing at the foot of the stairs staring at you). I understand slightly more than the basics of dog training, but I'm fearful I'm doing this wrong. What tips do you have for me?
I need my mother to be able to open the door and unhook the dog from her run, without having to go down 3-4 stairs to get the dog. For reasons I don't understand the dog doesn't quite want to go up the stairs without a human right with her. She is not otherwise afraid of stairs, and happily runs up and down the stairs inside the house all day long.
She will willingly come to the foot of the stairs. Currently, each time we practice, I start by standing at the top of the stairs and just asking her to come up the stairs (come up) with a high value treat displayed prominently in my hand. She will sometimes put a paw on the bottom step but immediately backs away. She does get a reward if she touches the step.
After trying for a few minutes to lure her to step onto the stairs, I always end up walking down the stairs, attaching a leash to her, and then going back to the top. I then give a gentle tug to the leash and repeat the command (come up) and she comes right up (where she is amply rewarded with bologna and pets and praise - I'm hoping she comes to realize that you get the bologna at the top of the stairs and nowhere else). However, we seem to be unable to get past the point where I need to walk down the stairs and put the leash on her.
FYI: 'Take her to a trainer' is not the best answer. My mother broke her hip a week ago, and right now I have all I can handle keeping her safe in the house. Dog is otherwise extremely well behaved, but if I can't get her to come in the house on command she'll need to go stay elsewhere and my mother will be deprived of her best friend. I know dog and I can figure this out.
I need my mother to be able to open the door and unhook the dog from her run, without having to go down 3-4 stairs to get the dog. For reasons I don't understand the dog doesn't quite want to go up the stairs without a human right with her. She is not otherwise afraid of stairs, and happily runs up and down the stairs inside the house all day long.
She will willingly come to the foot of the stairs. Currently, each time we practice, I start by standing at the top of the stairs and just asking her to come up the stairs (come up) with a high value treat displayed prominently in my hand. She will sometimes put a paw on the bottom step but immediately backs away. She does get a reward if she touches the step.
After trying for a few minutes to lure her to step onto the stairs, I always end up walking down the stairs, attaching a leash to her, and then going back to the top. I then give a gentle tug to the leash and repeat the command (come up) and she comes right up (where she is amply rewarded with bologna and pets and praise - I'm hoping she comes to realize that you get the bologna at the top of the stairs and nowhere else). However, we seem to be unable to get past the point where I need to walk down the stairs and put the leash on her.
FYI: 'Take her to a trainer' is not the best answer. My mother broke her hip a week ago, and right now I have all I can handle keeping her safe in the house. Dog is otherwise extremely well behaved, but if I can't get her to come in the house on command she'll need to go stay elsewhere and my mother will be deprived of her best friend. I know dog and I can figure this out.
This sounds tough! I would have been trying exactly what you're doing, too.
The rewards for touching the step sound right on target - ideally you reward that enough times until the dog willingly & excitedly touches the step repeatedly, and then you raise the bar slightly (two feet on the step!) and repeat the process.
Do you have any experience with clicker training? It can be a really effective way to help the dog "see" exactly what action is earning the treat much more clearly and quickly. It really speeds up the process of teaching specific skills and it's really easy to start (here's one introductory website). If you don't have a clicker, you can use a verbal marker for similar effect.
Also, are you sure your high value treat is high value enough? If there's anything she likes better - even if it's not exactly health food - it may be worth experimenting with that. Think beyond dog treats - dog-safe "human food" can often be even more enticing.
posted by mosst at 7:18 AM on February 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
The rewards for touching the step sound right on target - ideally you reward that enough times until the dog willingly & excitedly touches the step repeatedly, and then you raise the bar slightly (two feet on the step!) and repeat the process.
Do you have any experience with clicker training? It can be a really effective way to help the dog "see" exactly what action is earning the treat much more clearly and quickly. It really speeds up the process of teaching specific skills and it's really easy to start (here's one introductory website). If you don't have a clicker, you can use a verbal marker for similar effect.
Also, are you sure your high value treat is high value enough? If there's anything she likes better - even if it's not exactly health food - it may be worth experimenting with that. Think beyond dog treats - dog-safe "human food" can often be even more enticing.
posted by mosst at 7:18 AM on February 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
I always end up walking down the stairs, attaching a leash to her, and then going back to the top.
You've taught her that she only needs to have more patience than you. Dog patience is legendary!
I don't know what to do - we are about to work with a trainer for our rescue dog who has proved either aggressive or just really excited to see other dogs - but I do know that giving in as you describe is on the what-not-to-do list.
posted by headnsouth at 7:19 AM on February 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
You've taught her that she only needs to have more patience than you. Dog patience is legendary!
I don't know what to do - we are about to work with a trainer for our rescue dog who has proved either aggressive or just really excited to see other dogs - but I do know that giving in as you describe is on the what-not-to-do list.
posted by headnsouth at 7:19 AM on February 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
It sounds as if the dog is already on a lead in the yard, and then you unhook her and put her on a different leash and walk her up the stairs. If this is so, she could very well be associating the yard lead with "area below the stairs." She might even fear that it's too short/chokey to go with it up the stairs. Or she could just have the strong dog association, THIS LEAD FOR YARD ONLY THIS IS THE UNBREAKABLE LAW OF THE WORLD.
If it were my pooch I'd start first making sure the yard lead isn't so short that going up the stairs is anyway creating a feel of resistance. Then, I'd base my training around disassociating the new leash from going inside. I don't have time now to plan out exactly how I'd do that -- whether trying to get her up the stairs without unhooking her first, or just getting a new yard lead altogether -- but it is where I'd start.
posted by velveeta underground at 7:20 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
If it were my pooch I'd start first making sure the yard lead isn't so short that going up the stairs is anyway creating a feel of resistance. Then, I'd base my training around disassociating the new leash from going inside. I don't have time now to plan out exactly how I'd do that -- whether trying to get her up the stairs without unhooking her first, or just getting a new yard lead altogether -- but it is where I'd start.
posted by velveeta underground at 7:20 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: then you unhook her and put her on a different leash and walk her up the stairs
I actually leave her hooked to the yard lead and then add the leash and walk her up the stairs, then unhook her at the top of the stairs. The yard lead is more than long enough.
I do know that giving in as you describe is on the what-not-to-do list.
Yeah, but I do need to actually get her back in the house. I can't leave her out there for a day and and night and I also need to be in the house to help my mother move around.
posted by anastasiav at 7:28 AM on February 15, 2018
I actually leave her hooked to the yard lead and then add the leash and walk her up the stairs, then unhook her at the top of the stairs. The yard lead is more than long enough.
I do know that giving in as you describe is on the what-not-to-do list.
Yeah, but I do need to actually get her back in the house. I can't leave her out there for a day and and night and I also need to be in the house to help my mother move around.
posted by anastasiav at 7:28 AM on February 15, 2018
Can you get a partial sheet of plywood or a 2x12 to make a ramp - just to change the dynamic?
posted by mercredi at 7:33 AM on February 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by mercredi at 7:33 AM on February 15, 2018 [4 favorites]
Break up the training time vs actually needing to get her up the stairs time. So, train on the stairs for a while, then go back down into the yard to play, then put on her second leash and walk up the stairs without trying to train her at all.
posted by snaw at 7:38 AM on February 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by snaw at 7:38 AM on February 15, 2018 [5 favorites]
I actually leave her hooked to the yard lead and then add the leash and walk her up the stairs, then unhook her at the top of the stairs. The yard lead is more than long enough.
Try adding the leash as usual, but then without holding onto it, go up a stair and call her with a treat. Keep doing that a few stairs more at a time, always putting the leash on first but NOT holding it. She might re-set. Dogs really can be convolutedly legalistic this way.
posted by velveeta underground at 7:38 AM on February 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
Try adding the leash as usual, but then without holding onto it, go up a stair and call her with a treat. Keep doing that a few stairs more at a time, always putting the leash on first but NOT holding it. She might re-set. Dogs really can be convolutedly legalistic this way.
posted by velveeta underground at 7:38 AM on February 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
Only thing I can think to add here is to think about what things look like from the dog's physical vantage point.
I'm wondering if the dog is not thinking "I need a human beside me to walk up the steps" and it's actually something more like "human is a giant at the top of the stairs and that is scary." Can you sit on that step or halfway down to call her up?
Obviously, your mom won't be able to do this while healing, but eventually you should be able to progress to calling her from a "normal" position. Right now it's about getting her over that first hurdle.
posted by pixiecrinkle at 7:55 AM on February 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm wondering if the dog is not thinking "I need a human beside me to walk up the steps" and it's actually something more like "human is a giant at the top of the stairs and that is scary." Can you sit on that step or halfway down to call her up?
Obviously, your mom won't be able to do this while healing, but eventually you should be able to progress to calling her from a "normal" position. Right now it's about getting her over that first hurdle.
posted by pixiecrinkle at 7:55 AM on February 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
Seconding what snaw said -- that it might work better to do a training session at the beginning or in the middle of the yard time, and just go get her without trying to train at the end, because your needing to get her, and so being willing to to get her when she balks, is reinforcing her resistance.
Um, I'm a little hesitant to say this, and people should jump in if I'm suggesting something that sounds cruel, but rearrange her feeding schedule so she's hungry when she's in the yard, and doesn't get fed until she comes up the stairs? Feed once a day, after yard time?
posted by LizardBreath at 7:58 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Um, I'm a little hesitant to say this, and people should jump in if I'm suggesting something that sounds cruel, but rearrange her feeding schedule so she's hungry when she's in the yard, and doesn't get fed until she comes up the stairs? Feed once a day, after yard time?
posted by LizardBreath at 7:58 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Currently, each time we practice, I start by standing at the top of the stairs and just asking her to come up the stairs
My first instinct would be to break it down to smaller parts. You stand on the first/bottom step and work on come up. Then the second step and so on.
I would also try to not forget to add excitement and high energy to the process. Dogs seem to do better when the human in indicating the task is superduper fun! Bottom step! Come up! HOORAY! Next step! Yay!
You work on one step at a time until it's smooth and then try two steps, and then calling from the porch.
posted by Squeak Attack at 8:03 AM on February 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
My first instinct would be to break it down to smaller parts. You stand on the first/bottom step and work on come up. Then the second step and so on.
I would also try to not forget to add excitement and high energy to the process. Dogs seem to do better when the human in indicating the task is superduper fun! Bottom step! Come up! HOORAY! Next step! Yay!
You work on one step at a time until it's smooth and then try two steps, and then calling from the porch.
posted by Squeak Attack at 8:03 AM on February 15, 2018 [3 favorites]
Does she know what it sounds like when you get her treats? I have a dog that ignores me when I ask her to come inside, but if i rattle the box of milk bones on top the fridge she magically appears.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:22 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:22 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
How about a treat at the top of the stairs *before* the outside play begins?
If you can associate the sitting-at-the-door position with a reward, then maybe it will be easier to do the process in reverse when playtime is over.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:58 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
If you can associate the sitting-at-the-door position with a reward, then maybe it will be easier to do the process in reverse when playtime is over.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:58 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Oh, that sounds really smart. Start at the top of the stairs, both leashes on, give a treat. Let her go down a step and then call her back for a treat. Two steps and then come back for a treat. Anything to get her used to coming up the stairs at all for a treat, and breaking away from the context that isn't working.
posted by LizardBreath at 9:10 AM on February 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by LizardBreath at 9:10 AM on February 15, 2018 [2 favorites]
Yep. The treat before playing is key. Both of my dogs were reluctant to come inside after outside play time was over. First dog was very food motivated, so I just showed her the treat and then let her out. She would do her business and then return quickly for the treat. Eventually, she didn't need to be shown treat. Second dog who was not very food motivated, would get the treat before she was unleashed outside with lots of pets. Then when it was time to go in, she would get shown the treat and would only give it when she came in. Now she barks at the door to go back inside and is delighted to come inside.
The key with training dogs to do something is not try to train them when you need it done. Instead, train them when you have time. I would start with the dog in the house and do the "Come" command and reward with treats or love or both. Then when you're satisfied that the dog has the idea, then you go outside and have her come to you at the bottom of the stairs. Then move to the top.
Also, if your training the dog for more than 10 minutes, you're wasting your time. They don't have the attention span to stick with training like that.
posted by teleri025 at 9:30 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
The key with training dogs to do something is not try to train them when you need it done. Instead, train them when you have time. I would start with the dog in the house and do the "Come" command and reward with treats or love or both. Then when you're satisfied that the dog has the idea, then you go outside and have her come to you at the bottom of the stairs. Then move to the top.
Also, if your training the dog for more than 10 minutes, you're wasting your time. They don't have the attention span to stick with training like that.
posted by teleri025 at 9:30 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
My dingaling dog was the same way--I ended up putting the end of the tether in the house, under the porch door and attached the other end to the back stairs. All I do now is tether her IN the house then let her out, and vice versa.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 12:07 PM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 12:07 PM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: How about putting a lead that's anchored to the area near the door? That way your mother could clip the dog to the lead, then when the dog has done it's thing your mother could tug the lead and get the dog back up the stairs?
posted by gregr at 1:48 PM on February 15, 2018
posted by gregr at 1:48 PM on February 15, 2018
Seconding the clicker training. This is a great video for showing how it can be used to get a dog come when called: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T1a3_1ouqY
posted by little king trashmouth at 7:19 AM on February 16, 2018
posted by little king trashmouth at 7:19 AM on February 16, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
One step at a time is all you need to focus on - paw on first step, treats!! Then work on two paws and so on.
posted by snaw at 7:14 AM on February 15, 2018 [5 favorites]