Don’t be the other woman
February 2, 2018 11:13 PM
I recently started a post-graduate course that is closely related to my profession. I noticed a man in the course and, over a few conversations, a mutual attraction sparked. But I discovered HE IS MARRIED and we skated close to doing something stupid. I feel dreadful. Help me navigate through this.
This guy is a senior executive in my industry. We started talking and found we had a lot in common. I was attracted immediately and we engaged in a little friendly flirting.
The whole course cohort was staying together in a hotel. One night, the guy invited me to his room on the pretext of working on a presentation. The thought was exhilarating but sense prevailed, I said no and went to bed. I’m single. I did not yet know he was married.
Then there was an evening function for the course. We all went to a bar afterwards and most of us had a few too many drinks. Wherever I was for most of the night, he was generally nearby. His arm would brush against my arm, or I’d see him look at me across the room. I definitely encouraged this. By now I knew he was married and here is where it gets bad...
When I left to go back to the hotel, he came with me. We were the only people in the lift. We both pressed the buttons for our separate floors. Then he asked me if I wanted to come to his room for a drink. I said sure and got out at his floor.
In his room, we kissed. For a few minutes. I knew I was doing the wrong thing, but in the moment I didn’t care. Until I did. I told him I didn’t want to sleep with a married person and that I should go. Also that I hoped we could be friends in the course and I didn’t want to ruin that. I left. When I got back to my room, he called me. We talked briefly but it ended with me reiterating that nothing more could happen between us.
The next day I woke up ashamed. I’d acted against my values. I’d lost respect for him for wanting to cheat on his wife. All I could think about was her. And in class he’s been familiar with me. Too familiar. In front of other people. As a result, I’ve been acting weird.
My question isn’t so much how I avoid getting into this situation again. I think I can pretty easily not drink too much, not flirt with him, not initiate or encourage, not be alone together. But:
How do I navigate the relationship dynamics from here? We have to study together for the next few years, possibly even working closely together. It’s a small cohort and we are going to cross paths a lot. I get on well with him and don’t want to cut him out entirely, and that’s not likely to be practically possible.
And how do I deal with this shame and guilt? I truly feel dreadful.
This guy is a senior executive in my industry. We started talking and found we had a lot in common. I was attracted immediately and we engaged in a little friendly flirting.
The whole course cohort was staying together in a hotel. One night, the guy invited me to his room on the pretext of working on a presentation. The thought was exhilarating but sense prevailed, I said no and went to bed. I’m single. I did not yet know he was married.
Then there was an evening function for the course. We all went to a bar afterwards and most of us had a few too many drinks. Wherever I was for most of the night, he was generally nearby. His arm would brush against my arm, or I’d see him look at me across the room. I definitely encouraged this. By now I knew he was married and here is where it gets bad...
When I left to go back to the hotel, he came with me. We were the only people in the lift. We both pressed the buttons for our separate floors. Then he asked me if I wanted to come to his room for a drink. I said sure and got out at his floor.
In his room, we kissed. For a few minutes. I knew I was doing the wrong thing, but in the moment I didn’t care. Until I did. I told him I didn’t want to sleep with a married person and that I should go. Also that I hoped we could be friends in the course and I didn’t want to ruin that. I left. When I got back to my room, he called me. We talked briefly but it ended with me reiterating that nothing more could happen between us.
The next day I woke up ashamed. I’d acted against my values. I’d lost respect for him for wanting to cheat on his wife. All I could think about was her. And in class he’s been familiar with me. Too familiar. In front of other people. As a result, I’ve been acting weird.
My question isn’t so much how I avoid getting into this situation again. I think I can pretty easily not drink too much, not flirt with him, not initiate or encourage, not be alone together. But:
How do I navigate the relationship dynamics from here? We have to study together for the next few years, possibly even working closely together. It’s a small cohort and we are going to cross paths a lot. I get on well with him and don’t want to cut him out entirely, and that’s not likely to be practically possible.
And how do I deal with this shame and guilt? I truly feel dreadful.
You feeling dreadful gives you agency over something that is ultimately all his fault. Honestly, he is a cad. This is what cads do. If not you, someone else. Watch, in fact, as he turns this charm and ability to get along with you towards another woman in your class in the future.
You kissed a bit because he charmed you. This is a thing that happens, particularly when our guard is down. That he is married is not your fault.
Just be polite but distant with him. Do you have other friends in this cohort? Women friends? Hang out with them instead. Be as distant as possible with this man, and chilly but not rude in public.
This guy did what he did with you because this is his MO. It actually has little to do with you as a person. Try to be kind to yourself. Would you judge a friend who was in this situation and want her to be ashamed? That shame can easily be turned into anger toward this cad. Attempt that emotion whenever you feel angry at yourself -- turn it towards him.
Take care of yourself.
posted by sockermom at 12:11 AM on February 3, 2018
You kissed a bit because he charmed you. This is a thing that happens, particularly when our guard is down. That he is married is not your fault.
Just be polite but distant with him. Do you have other friends in this cohort? Women friends? Hang out with them instead. Be as distant as possible with this man, and chilly but not rude in public.
This guy did what he did with you because this is his MO. It actually has little to do with you as a person. Try to be kind to yourself. Would you judge a friend who was in this situation and want her to be ashamed? That shame can easily be turned into anger toward this cad. Attempt that emotion whenever you feel angry at yourself -- turn it towards him.
Take care of yourself.
posted by sockermom at 12:11 AM on February 3, 2018
I will second the first two comments. It is highly unlikely that this is not his MO. He is a position of authority and he leveraged that to charm you. He doesn't feel bad about what happened, which is why he is acting overly familiar with you (in front of people!). Its all a big game for him. Please, don't try to be friends with this person. They are not treating you like a peer.
posted by stormygrey at 12:53 AM on February 3, 2018
posted by stormygrey at 12:53 AM on February 3, 2018
[One deleted. Reminder: Ask Metafilter is not for arguing or debating other answers. Just give your own direct, helpful/productive advice and let the OP sort out what is most useful for them.]
posted by taz at 1:05 AM on February 3, 2018
posted by taz at 1:05 AM on February 3, 2018
You are the person who stopped things before they could go further. Not him.
He is the person who is married and showed enthousiastic willingness to cheat. Not you.
Keep those things in mind, and keep a professional attitude but also a certain distance. The fact that he is now acting overly familiar is a clear sign that he feels no remorse. He cannot be your friend, since your values differ so much and you have (rightfully) lost respect for him as a person. But that's not his role anyway; you can probably respect him as a professional, and work with that attitude.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:12 AM on February 3, 2018
He is the person who is married and showed enthousiastic willingness to cheat. Not you.
Keep those things in mind, and keep a professional attitude but also a certain distance. The fact that he is now acting overly familiar is a clear sign that he feels no remorse. He cannot be your friend, since your values differ so much and you have (rightfully) lost respect for him as a person. But that's not his role anyway; you can probably respect him as a professional, and work with that attitude.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:12 AM on February 3, 2018
This was a test.
He failed it.
Move on.
Oh, okay... be professional. Be polite. Enjoy his company as a valued member of your industry (YOUR industry, he does not own it). But keep to your values.
Someone can also connect the idea that a person that cheats in one area will cheat in others. Don't let that be his excuse for how he behaved -- that he was only "testing" you (you don't have a marriage license so it's not on you).
You saw through him. He is not worthy of your respect, because he does not respect his own promises.
Find other people in the group to work with. Do not give up your agency. You acted on what you knew, and walked out when you were ready. That is taking charge. No need to overthink it.
Let him own his mistakes. This is really not about you.
posted by TrishaU at 1:16 AM on February 3, 2018
He failed it.
Move on.
Oh, okay... be professional. Be polite. Enjoy his company as a valued member of your industry (YOUR industry, he does not own it). But keep to your values.
Someone can also connect the idea that a person that cheats in one area will cheat in others. Don't let that be his excuse for how he behaved -- that he was only "testing" you (you don't have a marriage license so it's not on you).
You saw through him. He is not worthy of your respect, because he does not respect his own promises.
Find other people in the group to work with. Do not give up your agency. You acted on what you knew, and walked out when you were ready. That is taking charge. No need to overthink it.
Let him own his mistakes. This is really not about you.
posted by TrishaU at 1:16 AM on February 3, 2018
I had a small cohort in grad school, and we had one person who seemed so nice and sociable until she would do a 180 on you and talk so much shit and ostracize you. The first couple months, she did this to just 1 person and we all kind of thought that 1 person must have just rubbed her the wrong way, plus he was a little weird, yadda yadda. Soon enough, she did this to another person, and another, and another. That was just her MO. Everybody knew it and everybody stopped valuing her presense and opinions. She had to find other people outside our cohort to be friends with and repeat the cycle. Lonely existence for her, really.
So have faith. It’s the beginning of your program and you are unlucky victim #1 of this man. Unless you’re the only woman in your cohort, I can pretty much guarantee he will do this to the next one he’s working on a project with. If the rest of the cohort sense that something happened, well, they’re going to think what they think. Just take a deep breathe, focus on your studies, and make relationships with the good folks in your program. Because this man will move on when he sees you’re not going to play his game. If you want to report him to protect the other women in your cohort, that’s up to you to decide.
posted by DoubleLune at 4:19 AM on February 3, 2018
So have faith. It’s the beginning of your program and you are unlucky victim #1 of this man. Unless you’re the only woman in your cohort, I can pretty much guarantee he will do this to the next one he’s working on a project with. If the rest of the cohort sense that something happened, well, they’re going to think what they think. Just take a deep breathe, focus on your studies, and make relationships with the good folks in your program. Because this man will move on when he sees you’re not going to play his game. If you want to report him to protect the other women in your cohort, that’s up to you to decide.
posted by DoubleLune at 4:19 AM on February 3, 2018
Cheerful obliviousness, head held high. Treat him exactly as you would if it hadn't happened -- professional friendliness, both publicly and privately. If people 'suspect' they are not certain, and they'll forget about it. Especially if you put on the 'acting as if it didn't happen' demeanor. Grab other people as padding if you find yourself alone with him (like if you get up to leave a restaurant and he's suddenly getting up to leave too.)
Also you can treat yourself with that same friendliness: it was just a misstep, you're human, you learned something about yourself and about him.
Don't beat yourself up about it, and maybe don't beat him up about it either. Who knows how he got there. He sounds maybe not so great a guy but taking inventory of his sins isn't going to disentangle you from him--only stuffing him back into the category of 'colleague' can put him back where you want him.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:59 AM on February 3, 2018
Also you can treat yourself with that same friendliness: it was just a misstep, you're human, you learned something about yourself and about him.
Don't beat yourself up about it, and maybe don't beat him up about it either. Who knows how he got there. He sounds maybe not so great a guy but taking inventory of his sins isn't going to disentangle you from him--only stuffing him back into the category of 'colleague' can put him back where you want him.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:59 AM on February 3, 2018
Put your energy into getting to know the other people in the program. Pick the people you like and admire most and work with them as much as you can. Think now about who you want to work one-on-one with if that becomes a requirement and cultivate that relationship now.
posted by bunderful at 5:17 AM on February 3, 2018
posted by bunderful at 5:17 AM on February 3, 2018
Your inner struggle right now is dealing with thoughts like, "OMG, is the the kind of person I actually am?? Do I have to now go through life with the realization that despite all my prior self-classification as a good person, when the shit hit the fan, I caved and did the wrong thing? What if there is a 'next time?' Can I trust myself? I didn't walk away, I chose to participate, and now I lose all credibility... here's my "good person" card, I clearly do not deserve it... no matter what good I may ever do in life, THIS cancels it all out."
This can happen and it can haunt you. That disappointment at your own "weakness" and subsequent actions can be crippling. Soon you have taken every bit of fault onto your own shoulders and completely forgotten that another person was even involved. You're applying a zero-tolerance policy to yourself, and letting him totally off the hook.
Stop thinking about his wife. Stop crushing yourself. Think about why you were vulnerable, and raise your self-awareness so those things are nipped in the bud. And above all, forgive yourself.
He will do this again. He is, as others have said, a predator who is likely quite well-versed in the mechanics of single-women-at-business-functions-and-how-to-bed-them. He sniffed you out and got you interested before you knew all the facts, and used circumstances to close that deal as quickly as possible, before your better judgement had a chance to prevail. But guess what? It DID prevail, ultimately. In the full spectrum of what could have happened, you ended up fully on the side of the good, in my opinion. You were the victim even though you probably feel like the worst sort of perpetrator.
How you deal with the shame and guilt is this- when those thoughts come back, counter them with the reminder that you stopped it. You prevailed. You kept it from escalating. You are NOT that person, and just because the situation happened once does not mean you're scarlet-lettered for life and off to bed with the next married man that looks at you sideways at the bar after the annual meeting or whatever. Knowledge is power, and you now have a lot more knowledge about yourself. So be empowered by it, not crippled by it.
He, on the other hand, is living a lie with a woman who probably has no idea her husband is an asshole. That is their problem, though, and one of his making, and it's not. your. fault. Live your life, disengage from him on every level except the purely professional/academic, and let the lesson learned here be something you recall with gratitude, not shame.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 5:22 AM on February 3, 2018
This can happen and it can haunt you. That disappointment at your own "weakness" and subsequent actions can be crippling. Soon you have taken every bit of fault onto your own shoulders and completely forgotten that another person was even involved. You're applying a zero-tolerance policy to yourself, and letting him totally off the hook.
Stop thinking about his wife. Stop crushing yourself. Think about why you were vulnerable, and raise your self-awareness so those things are nipped in the bud. And above all, forgive yourself.
He will do this again. He is, as others have said, a predator who is likely quite well-versed in the mechanics of single-women-at-business-functions-and-how-to-bed-them. He sniffed you out and got you interested before you knew all the facts, and used circumstances to close that deal as quickly as possible, before your better judgement had a chance to prevail. But guess what? It DID prevail, ultimately. In the full spectrum of what could have happened, you ended up fully on the side of the good, in my opinion. You were the victim even though you probably feel like the worst sort of perpetrator.
How you deal with the shame and guilt is this- when those thoughts come back, counter them with the reminder that you stopped it. You prevailed. You kept it from escalating. You are NOT that person, and just because the situation happened once does not mean you're scarlet-lettered for life and off to bed with the next married man that looks at you sideways at the bar after the annual meeting or whatever. Knowledge is power, and you now have a lot more knowledge about yourself. So be empowered by it, not crippled by it.
He, on the other hand, is living a lie with a woman who probably has no idea her husband is an asshole. That is their problem, though, and one of his making, and it's not. your. fault. Live your life, disengage from him on every level except the purely professional/academic, and let the lesson learned here be something you recall with gratitude, not shame.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 5:22 AM on February 3, 2018
You don't owe his wife anything. He's the one who took those vows, not you. Women often get tasked with being the moral arbiter of men. Ignore and focus on your career, which is the only important thing in your question. Just act professional.
posted by thesockpuppet at 5:53 AM on February 3, 2018
posted by thesockpuppet at 5:53 AM on February 3, 2018
This leapt out at me: "And in class he’s been familiar with me. Too familiar. In front of other people. As a result, I’ve been acting weird."
It sound like what you really need here is advice on navigating this particular kind of power dynamic.
I don't have a lot to offer, there, but maybe someone else does. What I would advise is document this somehow just in case it eventually gets into a he said/she said situation.
posted by amtho at 6:36 AM on February 3, 2018
It sound like what you really need here is advice on navigating this particular kind of power dynamic.
I don't have a lot to offer, there, but maybe someone else does. What I would advise is document this somehow just in case it eventually gets into a he said/she said situation.
posted by amtho at 6:36 AM on February 3, 2018
You're fine. Nothing happened. Because you kept your head. Go you.
A tipsy kiss with a charming man in a hotel is not a big sin and not something you need to feel bad about. You had the excellent judgment to not sleep with a married professor, so everything is fine.
Just be professional with him. Nice, definitely - you're still in his class, he still has power over a grade for you - but professional. He will fish around a bit more to see if he can still look to you for some ego-boosting flirting, you'll be nice but professional, and in a few more tries he'll stop.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:13 AM on February 3, 2018
A tipsy kiss with a charming man in a hotel is not a big sin and not something you need to feel bad about. You had the excellent judgment to not sleep with a married professor, so everything is fine.
Just be professional with him. Nice, definitely - you're still in his class, he still has power over a grade for you - but professional. He will fish around a bit more to see if he can still look to you for some ego-boosting flirting, you'll be nice but professional, and in a few more tries he'll stop.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:13 AM on February 3, 2018
"And in class he’s been familiar with me. Too familiar. In front of other people." I agree with @amtho, this is where you need to focus your energy and determine a strategy and get some tactics to support your strategy.
If I may be so bold as to suggest: your strategy is "Boundaries".
Tactics are:
- no physical touching. If he touches you, slap his hand away and say "Don't touch me".
- no comments from him that imply you two are together in any way. If someone makes a joke, and he replies with "right, _yourname_?", subtly "pairing" you with him, say "I wouldn't know".
- refer to him always by Firstname Lastname. There's a huge difference in perception between "Bob and I worked on this presentation last night" and "Bob Smith and I worked on this presentation last night".
I think you handled this well, and will continue to do so.
posted by at at 7:23 AM on February 3, 2018
If I may be so bold as to suggest: your strategy is "Boundaries".
Tactics are:
- no physical touching. If he touches you, slap his hand away and say "Don't touch me".
- no comments from him that imply you two are together in any way. If someone makes a joke, and he replies with "right, _yourname_?", subtly "pairing" you with him, say "I wouldn't know".
- refer to him always by Firstname Lastname. There's a huge difference in perception between "Bob and I worked on this presentation last night" and "Bob Smith and I worked on this presentation last night".
I think you handled this well, and will continue to do so.
posted by at at 7:23 AM on February 3, 2018
I think you handled this well, and will continue to do so.
Agreed, this got a little messy but could have been a disaster. I agree with what people upthread said: it's absolutely not your job to help him not dig his own hole to jump into here. Tell him to not make it weird in whatever way is useful to you, and then just be professional, pretend it didn't happen (unless he forces the issue). If he continues to cross boundaries you are setting up, I'd make a thing of this with other people, because regardless of what may or may n ot have happened between the two of you, it's still really not cool of him to be flirty with you in class once you've established a clear boundary. You can just stick to that and not let a few minutes of ill-advised kissingmake you feel that you don't have standing to tell him to knock it off.
posted by jessamyn at 7:38 AM on February 3, 2018
Agreed, this got a little messy but could have been a disaster. I agree with what people upthread said: it's absolutely not your job to help him not dig his own hole to jump into here. Tell him to not make it weird in whatever way is useful to you, and then just be professional, pretend it didn't happen (unless he forces the issue). If he continues to cross boundaries you are setting up, I'd make a thing of this with other people, because regardless of what may or may n ot have happened between the two of you, it's still really not cool of him to be flirty with you in class once you've established a clear boundary. You can just stick to that and not let a few minutes of ill-advised kissingmake you feel that you don't have standing to tell him to knock it off.
posted by jessamyn at 7:38 AM on February 3, 2018
He's kissing you, he's kissing other people. You're not the first. There's other people at work / in the course / in life he's having this with. It's also a trope.
Keep that in mind and it helps kill the "magic."
This dude has no power over you.
As for him singling you out in class, flip the game on him. Ask him about his wife and family in front of others. Ask him about his mom. Take control back and make him squirm... in a plausible deniability way. Have fun!
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:40 AM on February 3, 2018
Keep that in mind and it helps kill the "magic."
This dude has no power over you.
As for him singling you out in class, flip the game on him. Ask him about his wife and family in front of others. Ask him about his mom. Take control back and make him squirm... in a plausible deniability way. Have fun!
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:40 AM on February 3, 2018
Under the right/wrong conditions, anyone could do anything, really (cheat, lie, commit manslaughter, etc). Your values won out in the end, which you should consider a victory. But this might be an opportunity to expand your empathy for people who do ultimately do the wrong thing, to understand how easy it can be to slide that way, to be frail. (Which you didn't and weren't!) So you were afforded a chance to understand from experience a little more about the human condition. And about who you are (a person who didn't cave, in the end.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:57 AM on February 3, 2018
posted by cotton dress sock at 7:57 AM on February 3, 2018
You need this guy to not muddy the work waters for you. As I read it, he is not your instructor in the course, but another student. He is temporarily on the same level as you, but when you get back to your respective jobs, he is a higher level employee than you and he might have some power to affect your career at some point. Just setting a firm boundary is probably your best bet. Some people would say you have to bust this guy to protect the next woman, and the one after that. But his behavior is no secret so I don't know, is that really your responsibility? But where has he been the last few months, on the moon? Has he never hear of the Me Too movement?
posted by BibiRose at 8:55 AM on February 3, 2018
posted by BibiRose at 8:55 AM on February 3, 2018
oh sorry, I misread it. He's just a future colleague, not your prof. Doesn't matter. Nice but professional. If anyone ever refers to it, just deny, with disinterest, like "hm that must have been someone else." He'll stop acting familiar with you if you keep your distance and don't feed the ego.
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:20 AM on February 3, 2018
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:20 AM on February 3, 2018
St. Peepsburg FTW.
Ask about his wife when he's publicly friendly, of course. Of course.
posted by jbenben at 9:59 AM on February 3, 2018
Ask about his wife when he's publicly friendly, of course. Of course.
posted by jbenben at 9:59 AM on February 3, 2018
He's an industry leader. He withheld the fact of his marriage and tried to get into your pants. Now he's being publicly cheesy, trying to display sexual dominance, and trying to make you look bad because you didn't have sex with him. This is exactly what sexual harassment looks like. Hes in a power position and abusing it. Be super-professional. You have no reason to be embarrassed. You had a moment of Maybe he's a decent person and we could actually have a friendship, went to his room, and quickly got yourself out of there. As a woman who's been married to a cheater, thank you. You should simply use it as a reminder to be very cautious.
You don't want to be publicly shamed by this jerk. Stop the visible embarrassment, which makes it look like you have something to be ashamed of. Be mildly charming and slightly dismissive of his attention. The occasional eye roll. Its all power dynamics. Showing any weakness at all will make it worse. I hate this crap with such a passion, and I'm so sorry you're going through this.
posted by theora55 at 11:05 AM on February 3, 2018
You don't want to be publicly shamed by this jerk. Stop the visible embarrassment, which makes it look like you have something to be ashamed of. Be mildly charming and slightly dismissive of his attention. The occasional eye roll. Its all power dynamics. Showing any weakness at all will make it worse. I hate this crap with such a passion, and I'm so sorry you're going through this.
posted by theora55 at 11:05 AM on February 3, 2018
Cheerful obliviousness, head held high. Treat him exactly as you would if it hadn't happened -- professional friendliness, both publicly and privately. If people 'suspect' they are not certain, and they'll forget about it.
Came to say exactly this and found that A Terrible Llama beat me to it. Just gloss over it, smile, be polite but distant, engage in polite chitchat about people's lives outside the programme, including his family situation. And don't let any shadow of guilt attach itself to you. You're not the one who did anything wrong, or who broke any vows to anybody about anything. You had a few drinks with a colleague you were getting to know, had a momentary lapse in judgment, and then righted the ship as soon as you could.
Sail on, and don't look back, including by trying to "get" this guy in any way, at least for now. If he does turn out to be a predator, which is entirely possible, he will try to pull this crap again, either by being inappropriate with you, or with somebody else. If and when that happens, you can use the information you have to help yourself and others draw conclusions. But for now, this internet stranger gives you permission to brush it all off.
posted by rpfields at 11:07 AM on February 3, 2018
Came to say exactly this and found that A Terrible Llama beat me to it. Just gloss over it, smile, be polite but distant, engage in polite chitchat about people's lives outside the programme, including his family situation. And don't let any shadow of guilt attach itself to you. You're not the one who did anything wrong, or who broke any vows to anybody about anything. You had a few drinks with a colleague you were getting to know, had a momentary lapse in judgment, and then righted the ship as soon as you could.
Sail on, and don't look back, including by trying to "get" this guy in any way, at least for now. If he does turn out to be a predator, which is entirely possible, he will try to pull this crap again, either by being inappropriate with you, or with somebody else. If and when that happens, you can use the information you have to help yourself and others draw conclusions. But for now, this internet stranger gives you permission to brush it all off.
posted by rpfields at 11:07 AM on February 3, 2018
Thirding St. Peepsburg, combined with A Terrible Llama. Head held high, cheerful obliviousness, complete emotional detachment (it should be as bland as possible) when you cheerily drop, "how did your wife like your holiday?" or other activity that is generally understood to be done as a couple, when he brings one up.
Please don't feel guilty. I was unwittingly initiated into the scripts shared by Reddit MRAs on how to woo women and cheat willy-nilly several years ago, when I dated a guy who presented himself as in the process of finalizing the divorce from his wife (they had separated two years ago and lived apart for over a year, according to him; the whole story checked out according to divorce laws in their home country). A few months later, it turned out he was sleeping with about a dozen women, some of them married, and he was going to remarry one of the currently-married women. Is your head spinning yet? I dropped him like a hot potato and never looked back. It was a wrencher, but it was very, very enlightening to see just how rotten that community on Reddit was and just how far the tentacles go. It's not just that website either; the very fact it exists is related to a putrid cohort of men who share this sort of knowledge.
They move in fast but nonchalant, grab moments of weakness and portray them as a choice on the part of their target (yes, they use words like "target" and "prey"), turn on the charm in order to clinch what they want – which is physical. I won't call it "sex" because it's much more related to a twisted combination of power/control/narcissism.
Be prepared for this guy to try the blast of charm on you next. Remind yourself it's not for you, it's for his own ego, and that will help you see through it.
Also remind yourself that not all men are like this. Unfortunately, the overtly charming-selfish ones are easier to spot because that's what they want – to be seen.
posted by fraula at 2:59 PM on February 3, 2018
Please don't feel guilty. I was unwittingly initiated into the scripts shared by Reddit MRAs on how to woo women and cheat willy-nilly several years ago, when I dated a guy who presented himself as in the process of finalizing the divorce from his wife (they had separated two years ago and lived apart for over a year, according to him; the whole story checked out according to divorce laws in their home country). A few months later, it turned out he was sleeping with about a dozen women, some of them married, and he was going to remarry one of the currently-married women. Is your head spinning yet? I dropped him like a hot potato and never looked back. It was a wrencher, but it was very, very enlightening to see just how rotten that community on Reddit was and just how far the tentacles go. It's not just that website either; the very fact it exists is related to a putrid cohort of men who share this sort of knowledge.
They move in fast but nonchalant, grab moments of weakness and portray them as a choice on the part of their target (yes, they use words like "target" and "prey"), turn on the charm in order to clinch what they want – which is physical. I won't call it "sex" because it's much more related to a twisted combination of power/control/narcissism.
Be prepared for this guy to try the blast of charm on you next. Remind yourself it's not for you, it's for his own ego, and that will help you see through it.
Also remind yourself that not all men are like this. Unfortunately, the overtly charming-selfish ones are easier to spot because that's what they want – to be seen.
posted by fraula at 2:59 PM on February 3, 2018
This guy was trying to play you, and I think you should forgive yourself for stepping over the line that he was doing his best to erase. You corrected your course promptly, and you'll know better next time.
Years ago a friend of mine went out for after-work drinks with a married co-worker, just on a casual, friendly basis, or so she thought. He clearly thought of it as a date and behaved inappropriately while they were at the bar, so she never went out for after-work drinks with him again, even though he kept asking. When he finally clued in that she wasn't interested in him or even willing to give him another opportunity to be alone with her, he began verbally cutting her up and ridiculing her in front of their co-workers. After several episodes of such behaviour, she dragged him outside and told him, "Smarten up, or I'll call your wife."
He smartened up, immediately and permanently. She had no further trouble with him behaving inappropriately.
I'd recommend that you set boundaries with this guy using the suggestions in this thread, but if he refuses to respect them and/or starts acting like a jerk, you can potentially use the threat of calling his wife as leverage to get him to behave.
posted by orange swan at 3:34 PM on February 3, 2018
Years ago a friend of mine went out for after-work drinks with a married co-worker, just on a casual, friendly basis, or so she thought. He clearly thought of it as a date and behaved inappropriately while they were at the bar, so she never went out for after-work drinks with him again, even though he kept asking. When he finally clued in that she wasn't interested in him or even willing to give him another opportunity to be alone with her, he began verbally cutting her up and ridiculing her in front of their co-workers. After several episodes of such behaviour, she dragged him outside and told him, "Smarten up, or I'll call your wife."
He smartened up, immediately and permanently. She had no further trouble with him behaving inappropriately.
I'd recommend that you set boundaries with this guy using the suggestions in this thread, but if he refuses to respect them and/or starts acting like a jerk, you can potentially use the threat of calling his wife as leverage to get him to behave.
posted by orange swan at 3:34 PM on February 3, 2018
This guy is a senior executive in my industry.
This translates to, "this guy is used to playing power dynamics and treating people like game pieces."
Please do not take the entire burden of guilt for this guy, who has made a career out of being able to successfully manipulate social situations, taking advantage of you when you were drunk. I would follow everyone's advice about maintaining boundaries, but also keep an ear open, this sounds like a pattern of missing stair behavior.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 12:04 PM on February 4, 2018
This translates to, "this guy is used to playing power dynamics and treating people like game pieces."
Please do not take the entire burden of guilt for this guy, who has made a career out of being able to successfully manipulate social situations, taking advantage of you when you were drunk. I would follow everyone's advice about maintaining boundaries, but also keep an ear open, this sounds like a pattern of missing stair behavior.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 12:04 PM on February 4, 2018
It sounds like this is another student, not a professor.
I've found that it can be helpful, particularly if it's feeling awkward in public, to make friendly conversation and ask about how his family/wife is doing. It works especially well if it's somehow plausible that you might have a friend or colleague in common with his wife or some other sort of vague connection -- if she works at a big company maybe you have "a friend" who just started working there. He'll get more professional in a hurry.
posted by yohko at 9:56 PM on February 4, 2018
I've found that it can be helpful, particularly if it's feeling awkward in public, to make friendly conversation and ask about how his family/wife is doing. It works especially well if it's somehow plausible that you might have a friend or colleague in common with his wife or some other sort of vague connection -- if she works at a big company maybe you have "a friend" who just started working there. He'll get more professional in a hurry.
posted by yohko at 9:56 PM on February 4, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
When you are a Nice Person that would never cheat on your spouse, you forget that other side.
He's a Cheater and a Predator. If you can't get away, you play it smart OR if it is possible to report him for harassment you do that.
He's married and took advantage of you. He waited until you were drunk. He's a predator. Treat him like a predator and do what's necessary. And I hope that is having the courage to report him. Because that is better than pretending and being fearful.
posted by jbenben at 12:04 AM on February 3, 2018