Is this a mid-life crisis or something more?
January 21, 2018 11:16 AM Subscribe
I am a 48 yo female, married for 26 years (my husband is 49). We have 3 children. We’ve had major ups and downs in our marriage. He has had 3 extramarital affairs. None in the last 17 years. We were of the brink of divorce when the last affair happened 2001. He said he needed my help, he loved me, etc. That was a real turning point for us. We went to marital counseling for almost a year. He also went to individual counseling then and as recently as 6 years ago for a tune-up. I have also been to individual counseling.
Over time, I was able to truly forgive him. Our marriage has been great for years. Of course we have major blow ups a couple of times a year. The difference is that when we argue now we’re able to discuss the issues and resolve them, for the most part.
I call my husband my rock, because he has really shown how devoted he is to me and our kids and our extended families. (More)
He has stood by me through a double mastectomy. He is 100 supportive of me and my endeavors. I feel like I’ve been maaried 3 times (to the same person) because of what we’ve been through and how much we’ve grown (together and as individuals).
All that being said, I am finding myself curious about pursuing a relationship with my boss. He and I have worked together for about 9 months. We are able to talk about lots of different things and we get along well. He has told me he thinks I’m the smartest person on his team, which is a huge deal to me. There have been many times I have been thinking to myself about a solution to a problem we’re having on the team. Then he will send a team email,basically saying the solution I was thinking!
I don’t believe in coincidences. After this happened several times I mentioned it to him. He said he thinks I’m his soulmate. My legs went wobbly. I found myself saying (out loud), “Maybe you are.”
I was leaving the office for the day, so we didn’t discuss it any further. I work remote 3 plus days a week. I don’t see him face to face that often. He knows I’m married, have kids. He’s been divorced for 4 years. He has mostly grown children.
I don’t complain about my marriage to him at all. I’m going back in to the office for the first time since he made the soulmate comment, tomorrow. I have been wondering if I should discuss it with him? I am attracted to him. Part of me wonders if I want to see where this goes (at least sexually).
My husband has said that my double mastectomy and implants don’t bother him. He finds me sexy and we have a good sex life. I do question that though, because he was a 100% “boob man” before I had the surgery. I’ve talked to him about how I feel disfigured and self conscious sometimes when we have sex. He is always reassuring me and loving about it.
I have to admit that I want to possibly pursue a physical relationship with my boss to see if I am still physically attractive to other men, not just my husband, who is almost obligated to say he is. I don’t know how much of this attraction is pure or me being a middle aged woman who has been through some trials. My husband wasn’t my first sexual relationship. He is one of 3. Obviously, our relationship has been the most serious and meaningful. What should I do?
He has stood by me through a double mastectomy. He is 100 supportive of me and my endeavors. I feel like I’ve been maaried 3 times (to the same person) because of what we’ve been through and how much we’ve grown (together and as individuals).
All that being said, I am finding myself curious about pursuing a relationship with my boss. He and I have worked together for about 9 months. We are able to talk about lots of different things and we get along well. He has told me he thinks I’m the smartest person on his team, which is a huge deal to me. There have been many times I have been thinking to myself about a solution to a problem we’re having on the team. Then he will send a team email,basically saying the solution I was thinking!
I don’t believe in coincidences. After this happened several times I mentioned it to him. He said he thinks I’m his soulmate. My legs went wobbly. I found myself saying (out loud), “Maybe you are.”
I was leaving the office for the day, so we didn’t discuss it any further. I work remote 3 plus days a week. I don’t see him face to face that often. He knows I’m married, have kids. He’s been divorced for 4 years. He has mostly grown children.
I don’t complain about my marriage to him at all. I’m going back in to the office for the first time since he made the soulmate comment, tomorrow. I have been wondering if I should discuss it with him? I am attracted to him. Part of me wonders if I want to see where this goes (at least sexually).
My husband has said that my double mastectomy and implants don’t bother him. He finds me sexy and we have a good sex life. I do question that though, because he was a 100% “boob man” before I had the surgery. I’ve talked to him about how I feel disfigured and self conscious sometimes when we have sex. He is always reassuring me and loving about it.
I have to admit that I want to possibly pursue a physical relationship with my boss to see if I am still physically attractive to other men, not just my husband, who is almost obligated to say he is. I don’t know how much of this attraction is pure or me being a middle aged woman who has been through some trials. My husband wasn’t my first sexual relationship. He is one of 3. Obviously, our relationship has been the most serious and meaningful. What should I do?
Listen I'm sympathetic to the desire for some strange, but this is all kinds of nope. Like where do I even start.
1. Sleeping with your boss is probably going to result in some sort of work blowup, which means 1. you'd be jeopardizing your job AND 2. your husband will probably find out.
2. Your boss has horrendously bad judgment and discretion. You can't trust him to keep his mouth shut or handle things rationally. See #1.
3. All good mgmt-report pairings should have a simpatico approach to problem solving. This is basic work harmony, not a reason to blow up some lives. It's extremely goofy for either of you to think you belong together because you thought about a work problem a similar way. Like so goofy I wonder if you are trolling.
Again. Very normal to be bored at home romantically/sexually after decades. But... nooooo. [edit: yes therapy, because it feels so good to have someone focus on you wholly, and you can get a therapist to do that, you don't need to blow up your life for it!]
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:25 AM on January 21, 2018 [42 favorites]
1. Sleeping with your boss is probably going to result in some sort of work blowup, which means 1. you'd be jeopardizing your job AND 2. your husband will probably find out.
2. Your boss has horrendously bad judgment and discretion. You can't trust him to keep his mouth shut or handle things rationally. See #1.
3. All good mgmt-report pairings should have a simpatico approach to problem solving. This is basic work harmony, not a reason to blow up some lives. It's extremely goofy for either of you to think you belong together because you thought about a work problem a similar way. Like so goofy I wonder if you are trolling.
Again. Very normal to be bored at home romantically/sexually after decades. But... nooooo. [edit: yes therapy, because it feels so good to have someone focus on you wholly, and you can get a therapist to do that, you don't need to blow up your life for it!]
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:25 AM on January 21, 2018 [42 favorites]
It sounds like a bad idea to me. That is, you're not saying any thing bad (currently) about your husband or your marriage, but you're contemplating blowing it up over a possible thing with your boss, which has the potential to screw up your work life as well as your marriage. Have you thought about taking this as a signal that you and your husband should maybe head in for another round of couples counseling to see what's going on in your head that this seems like a good idea?
posted by LizardBreath at 11:27 AM on January 21, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by LizardBreath at 11:27 AM on January 21, 2018 [5 favorites]
This is an absolute no. No way. 100% no. Your illness and mastectomy have changed your relationship with your husband, which is normal and to be expected, but it's something you both need to address. But holy shit, is sleeping with your boss not the way to address it.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:35 AM on January 21, 2018 [23 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:35 AM on January 21, 2018 [23 favorites]
I agree with all the above answers. But, are there other options? What about an open relationship? You'd have to come to terms with how crippled your husband's affairs made your marriage in order to do that but maybe that's something you can work out together with counseling. What about a separation? Would time apart bring you closer together or just be the start of divorce? If you weren't feeling this zing of attraction in your workplace, would any of this be coming up? Unfortunately, none of my options are quick ways to get into bed with your boss. I think that's not a good option for you. Not only would it jeopardize your career and your relationship, it would do so in a way that also jeopardized a good divorce where you don't get fleeced financially and psychologically and where your kids don't also get harmed.
posted by amanda at 11:39 AM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by amanda at 11:39 AM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
If your boss can go straight from a few emails to saying "You're my soulmate" to a married employee, in the beat of an eye, he doesn't sound like a great guy to me.
What is your intended end game in this? Possible outcomes include:
* Cheat on your husband without him knowing, living your life hiding something massive from your husband every single day.
* Leave your husband to be with this guy and hope it lasts.
* Be left by your husband when he finds out.
You might not get to choose which of those happens; you might find you leave your husband and it doesn't work out with the other guy. Are you completely happy and prepared for any combination of those scenarios to take place?
Feeling horny is a very short-term impulse, but it'll have long-term consequences, so don't act on the short-term impulse unless you're totally happy with the possible long term outcomes.
I think you should start believing in coincidences. They were just emails. Your boss shouldn't be flirting with married employees.
posted by penguin pie at 11:43 AM on January 21, 2018 [64 favorites]
What is your intended end game in this? Possible outcomes include:
* Cheat on your husband without him knowing, living your life hiding something massive from your husband every single day.
* Leave your husband to be with this guy and hope it lasts.
* Be left by your husband when he finds out.
You might not get to choose which of those happens; you might find you leave your husband and it doesn't work out with the other guy. Are you completely happy and prepared for any combination of those scenarios to take place?
Feeling horny is a very short-term impulse, but it'll have long-term consequences, so don't act on the short-term impulse unless you're totally happy with the possible long term outcomes.
I think you should start believing in coincidences. They were just emails. Your boss shouldn't be flirting with married employees.
posted by penguin pie at 11:43 AM on January 21, 2018 [64 favorites]
I was waiting for the bit where there was something potentially positive in this for you...it didn’t come.
posted by Salamander at 11:44 AM on January 21, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by Salamander at 11:44 AM on January 21, 2018 [11 favorites]
You should put all thought of any kind of affair out of your head. Are you kidding?! Do you think you could do this without getting caught? Do you want to get caught? If you do this and get caught, you will wreck your life and be responsible for a lot of pain, possibly lose friends, your job, maybe your reputation. Yes, your husband did this, more than once, many years ago. You make him sound genuinely repentant and a better man now. He has stood by you in difficult times.
If you no longer love your husband, that is something you need to deal with. But not by having an affair. Such a terrible idea! But you knew that, which is why you came here for some blunt, objective truths. Stop agreeing with your boss that you are "soul mates". You aren't. You have been swept up by the positive attention coupled with your self-consciousness about your body, and the liberating thought of a new life with a new, exciting man.
But you will regret this if you do it. What would you tell a close friend contemplating an affair with her boss? ALWAYS a bad idea. That's what you would say, right?
posted by Glinn at 11:45 AM on January 21, 2018 [6 favorites]
If you no longer love your husband, that is something you need to deal with. But not by having an affair. Such a terrible idea! But you knew that, which is why you came here for some blunt, objective truths. Stop agreeing with your boss that you are "soul mates". You aren't. You have been swept up by the positive attention coupled with your self-consciousness about your body, and the liberating thought of a new life with a new, exciting man.
But you will regret this if you do it. What would you tell a close friend contemplating an affair with her boss? ALWAYS a bad idea. That's what you would say, right?
posted by Glinn at 11:45 AM on January 21, 2018 [6 favorites]
I’ll pile on ....because "chemistry" can’t be trusted. People get drawn into and stuck in terrible relationships because of chemistry.
posted by bonobothegreat at 11:51 AM on January 21, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by bonobothegreat at 11:51 AM on January 21, 2018 [7 favorites]
I agree with all of the above and want to add that a likely outcome of pursuing an affair with your boss is that you end up going through a divorce and losing your job. I don't see a whole lot of upside to that.
posted by mcduff at 11:52 AM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by mcduff at 11:52 AM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
Chiming in to say I agree 100% with penguin pie and everyone else above. I cannot think of any scenario in which this ends up being a good thing for you or anyone involved.
You didn't say how recent your double mastectomy was, but you did say this:
"My husband has said that my double mastectomy and implants don’t bother him. He finds me sexy and we have a good sex life. I do question that though, because he was a 100% “boob man” before I had the surgery. I’ve talked to him about how I feel disfigured and self conscious sometimes when we have sex. He is always reassuring me and loving about it."
This stood out for me because it tells me that this may not be about your husband OR your boss. I cannot begin to imagine how difficult that experience was for you, and I'm wondering if this whole thing with your boss is more about a need to feel desired or wanted, about your own feelings of loss, about femininity and what the surgery meant for you and your self-esteem. I would definitely recommend going to a therapist to sort through those feelings. And hey, maybe it's not about any of that at all and your boss really is the person you're supposed to be with. But I hope not for your sake, because he sounds like a totally inappropriate, immature jerk.
posted by blackcatcuriouser at 11:52 AM on January 21, 2018 [41 favorites]
You didn't say how recent your double mastectomy was, but you did say this:
"My husband has said that my double mastectomy and implants don’t bother him. He finds me sexy and we have a good sex life. I do question that though, because he was a 100% “boob man” before I had the surgery. I’ve talked to him about how I feel disfigured and self conscious sometimes when we have sex. He is always reassuring me and loving about it."
This stood out for me because it tells me that this may not be about your husband OR your boss. I cannot begin to imagine how difficult that experience was for you, and I'm wondering if this whole thing with your boss is more about a need to feel desired or wanted, about your own feelings of loss, about femininity and what the surgery meant for you and your self-esteem. I would definitely recommend going to a therapist to sort through those feelings. And hey, maybe it's not about any of that at all and your boss really is the person you're supposed to be with. But I hope not for your sake, because he sounds like a totally inappropriate, immature jerk.
posted by blackcatcuriouser at 11:52 AM on January 21, 2018 [41 favorites]
I did the thing where I left someone for someone else based on "is this my soulmate?" chemistry. The thing with Person #2 lasted for ... two months? three?
Having similar views on professional questions and even sexual attraction are one thing. The ability to build and sustain a functional life with someone is another. You have the latter; don't blow it up.
posted by salvia at 11:59 AM on January 21, 2018 [9 favorites]
Having similar views on professional questions and even sexual attraction are one thing. The ability to build and sustain a functional life with someone is another. You have the latter; don't blow it up.
posted by salvia at 11:59 AM on January 21, 2018 [9 favorites]
I dunno, I wouldn’t recommend cheating but you could consider asking your husband for a ‘free pass’.
You did get over and forgive THREE affairs of his, I’d say getting permission for one fling ahead of time (terms to be negotiated) is not so crazy to ask for. And even asking has potential to cause problems, but I felt I should point out another potential option other than the chorus of fairly similar answers you’re getting.
posted by SaltySalticid at 12:02 PM on January 21, 2018 [13 favorites]
You did get over and forgive THREE affairs of his, I’d say getting permission for one fling ahead of time (terms to be negotiated) is not so crazy to ask for. And even asking has potential to cause problems, but I felt I should point out another potential option other than the chorus of fairly similar answers you’re getting.
posted by SaltySalticid at 12:02 PM on January 21, 2018 [13 favorites]
If you have met your soulmate, why wouldn't your negotiations center on joining your non-work life paths as quickly as possible and managing the fallout in an ethical way with your spouse and children? Rather than whether you will be compatable as workmates with doing-it-on-the-sly privileges? (IMHO, no-one is compatible as such! Not because of being workmates, because of the on-the-sly stuff!)
If this is an issue about what you feel for someone you have a new and close relationship with, why are you worried about whether your husband really finds you attractive after the reconstructive surgery? My read on your logic is that, having strayed in the past, your husband is moments away from doing it again based on a youthful body-type prediliction, thus your affair would be justified. Is this truly what you believe? It seems to really discount the years of mending you say have passed.
I know how wonderful it is to strike on a work relationship that clicks on a much deeper level, but there is a reason the phrases "work spouse" and "don't shit where you eat" were invented. I don't see anything wrong with your curiosity, because you are articulately self-reflective on the aspects of it! But if you are asking if you should initiate, then pursue, an affair with your boss, I'd say no. In the very least, think of what effects it might have on your workplace status should it go south and he uses his higher position to dictate terms you don't agree with.
I also can't answer your question, which I guess is the post title, I think that's for you to decide. My only advice would be to read up on limerence, and ponder how all the ways this possible guy seems perfect are flashing red neon arrows pointing to places where you feel unacknowledged in life. Best.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 12:08 PM on January 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
If this is an issue about what you feel for someone you have a new and close relationship with, why are you worried about whether your husband really finds you attractive after the reconstructive surgery? My read on your logic is that, having strayed in the past, your husband is moments away from doing it again based on a youthful body-type prediliction, thus your affair would be justified. Is this truly what you believe? It seems to really discount the years of mending you say have passed.
I know how wonderful it is to strike on a work relationship that clicks on a much deeper level, but there is a reason the phrases "work spouse" and "don't shit where you eat" were invented. I don't see anything wrong with your curiosity, because you are articulately self-reflective on the aspects of it! But if you are asking if you should initiate, then pursue, an affair with your boss, I'd say no. In the very least, think of what effects it might have on your workplace status should it go south and he uses his higher position to dictate terms you don't agree with.
I also can't answer your question, which I guess is the post title, I think that's for you to decide. My only advice would be to read up on limerence, and ponder how all the ways this possible guy seems perfect are flashing red neon arrows pointing to places where you feel unacknowledged in life. Best.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 12:08 PM on January 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
Your boss, in 2018, with everything that's going on in the news, is telling a subordinate that she is his soulmate? Discuss it with him by telling him to never say anything inappropriate to you again. Document everything in case he does.
Please get your head out of the clouds. You are courting disaster.
posted by sageleaf at 12:11 PM on January 21, 2018 [30 favorites]
Please get your head out of the clouds. You are courting disaster.
posted by sageleaf at 12:11 PM on January 21, 2018 [30 favorites]
I wouldn't jeopardize your long (as you say solid) marriage by having an affair with your boss.
I do believe in coincidences and I don't believe in "soulmates". The idea of a soulmate is right out of some fantasy land romance novel. Just because you are clicking with your boss now, does not mean you will forever. Your boss is behaving completely inappropriately and unprofessionally. You have grown and developed a lasting relationship with your husband, why put that at risk for some shallow emotional romantic notion you're having now?
You can't take back an affair. Your knees won't be wobbly forever. Most likely you'll regret it, just as your husband probably regretted his affairs.
I vote bad idea all around.
posted by loveandhappiness at 12:17 PM on January 21, 2018 [8 favorites]
I do believe in coincidences and I don't believe in "soulmates". The idea of a soulmate is right out of some fantasy land romance novel. Just because you are clicking with your boss now, does not mean you will forever. Your boss is behaving completely inappropriately and unprofessionally. You have grown and developed a lasting relationship with your husband, why put that at risk for some shallow emotional romantic notion you're having now?
You can't take back an affair. Your knees won't be wobbly forever. Most likely you'll regret it, just as your husband probably regretted his affairs.
I vote bad idea all around.
posted by loveandhappiness at 12:17 PM on January 21, 2018 [8 favorites]
You know what? Maybe this guy is your soulmate or someone you have an abnormally strong cosmic connection with (I absolutely believe in these things). But he's also your boss and that creates a whole lot of ethical and professional red flags. If you really want to pursue something with this guy you all need to not work together anymore. Exploring this within the context of a manager-direct report relationship is incredibly dangerous.
Some reasons at the top of my head why you shouldn't pursue this while you two work together:
- it creates a power imbalance no matter how much he claims he can treat you fairly at work
- it creates a lot of weirdness for your colleagues. TRUST ME, they will all figure it out
- what happens if you break up? Do you really think it's guaranteed to remain civil at work?
- what happens if you lose your job?
posted by joan_holloway at 12:19 PM on January 21, 2018 [11 favorites]
Some reasons at the top of my head why you shouldn't pursue this while you two work together:
- it creates a power imbalance no matter how much he claims he can treat you fairly at work
- it creates a lot of weirdness for your colleagues. TRUST ME, they will all figure it out
- what happens if you break up? Do you really think it's guaranteed to remain civil at work?
- what happens if you lose your job?
posted by joan_holloway at 12:19 PM on January 21, 2018 [11 favorites]
Best answer: This is what jumped out at me the most of what you wrote, "I have to admit that I want to possibly pursue a physical relationship with my boss to see if I am still physically attractive to other men, not just my husband, who is almost obligated to say he is."
I think this is very honest - and telling.
Before taking action here, these are some things I would try thinking about:
Who are you? You are not your body. Your body may be a part of who you are, but it is not the whole thing. You are bigger than your body, deeper than your body. You are your thoughts, feelings; you are what you see when you close your eyes. Do you love that being?
You are not men's desire of you. What if no one desired you sexually again? You would still be you. You would still exist.
Illness and changes in our bodies are mentally shocking. They force us to grapple with mortality, death, our own existence.
I sense there is something deeper and profound going on within your own self. First try encountering that head on. Possibly with the assistance of a therapist.
Sending you love.
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 12:37 PM on January 21, 2018 [71 favorites]
I think this is very honest - and telling.
Before taking action here, these are some things I would try thinking about:
Who are you? You are not your body. Your body may be a part of who you are, but it is not the whole thing. You are bigger than your body, deeper than your body. You are your thoughts, feelings; you are what you see when you close your eyes. Do you love that being?
You are not men's desire of you. What if no one desired you sexually again? You would still be you. You would still exist.
Illness and changes in our bodies are mentally shocking. They force us to grapple with mortality, death, our own existence.
I sense there is something deeper and profound going on within your own self. First try encountering that head on. Possibly with the assistance of a therapist.
Sending you love.
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 12:37 PM on January 21, 2018 [71 favorites]
How is what you are feeling any different from the times your husband had affairs? And did he not regret his actions later? The likely outcome of this is losing your marriage and your job, and devastating your children.
What you should do instead: Go for a romantic weekend getaway with your husband. Have someone else mind the kids for the weekend, go to some nice restaurants, see an opera, dress up elegant and sexily, stay in a fancy hotel with the express purpose of having some good carefree sex with your husband. Sure, it will be expensive, but it will be a fraction what the inevitable blowout of having an affair would have cost.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:39 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
What you should do instead: Go for a romantic weekend getaway with your husband. Have someone else mind the kids for the weekend, go to some nice restaurants, see an opera, dress up elegant and sexily, stay in a fancy hotel with the express purpose of having some good carefree sex with your husband. Sure, it will be expensive, but it will be a fraction what the inevitable blowout of having an affair would have cost.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:39 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
I sympathize with wanring to blow up your life at mid life. I say, all you have to do to proceed is to approach things ethically. That means:
One. Let your husband know that you would like an open marriage, or divorce. I understand that he cheated on you, but I don’t think tit for tat is a good way to run a marriage. What do you wish he had done when he was facing similar choices? Leave you? Let you know? Turn back towards you has his picture questio what do you wish he had done when he was facing similar choices? Leave you? Let you know? Turn back towards you as his partner?
Two. Let your boss know that you would like to sleep with him, and let HR or any other authority at work know. Because sleeping with your boss is generally not acceptable practice in most workplaces. Alternatively, you could get a new job first. I agree that your boss sounds like someone who does not make good decisions, but really the only person’s ethics that you can control are your own.
If that all sounds like too much work or is too risky then there’s your decision. I agree with other people that this is probably more about your sense of being desirable and therapy would be helpful, and that might present less risk.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:42 PM on January 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
One. Let your husband know that you would like an open marriage, or divorce. I understand that he cheated on you, but I don’t think tit for tat is a good way to run a marriage. What do you wish he had done when he was facing similar choices? Leave you? Let you know? Turn back towards you has his picture questio what do you wish he had done when he was facing similar choices? Leave you? Let you know? Turn back towards you as his partner?
Two. Let your boss know that you would like to sleep with him, and let HR or any other authority at work know. Because sleeping with your boss is generally not acceptable practice in most workplaces. Alternatively, you could get a new job first. I agree that your boss sounds like someone who does not make good decisions, but really the only person’s ethics that you can control are your own.
If that all sounds like too much work or is too risky then there’s your decision. I agree with other people that this is probably more about your sense of being desirable and therapy would be helpful, and that might present less risk.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:42 PM on January 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
It sounds like a dip into some kind of polyamory might help you feel more comfortable about your body. But sleeping with your sleazy unprofessional boss is a HORRIBLE idea and could wreck both your work life AND your marriage. It's almost guaranteed you're not you boss' first office "soulmate", don't risk it with him! I'd try to put him out of your mind.
If you want to get more comfortable with your body & experiment to see who finds you attractive, that's a great idea. You could do lots of other things, like these...
(I've ranked them in the order that I perceive to be least to most risky)
Watch "By The Sea", in which Angelina Jolie appears topless after a double mastectomy & reconstruction (spoiler alert: she looks great and nobody's judgy that she had lifesaving surgery)
Read online forums & look at lots of photos of different breasts & bodies, to teach YOURSELF that your body looks great
Follow some body positive and breast / #mastectomy Instagram accounts to give yourself lots of examples of how awesome different bodies look
Post your (perhaps faceless) nudes online and see what ppl say
Do some cam stuff
Go to a nude beach
Do a private nude photoshoot
Try nude modelling for an art class
Go to a swingers club with husband's blessing, or with husband
Have some extra-marital hookups - with non-work people - with husband's blessing
Cheat on husband with random person
Cheat on husband with work person
Cheat on husband with boss, aka the one work person who can totally ruin your career
In short, the validation you seek is normal and reasonable. And there are LOTS of ways to get this kind of validation. PLEASE don't skip right to the most nuclear option.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 12:43 PM on January 21, 2018 [8 favorites]
If you want to get more comfortable with your body & experiment to see who finds you attractive, that's a great idea. You could do lots of other things, like these...
(I've ranked them in the order that I perceive to be least to most risky)
Watch "By The Sea", in which Angelina Jolie appears topless after a double mastectomy & reconstruction (spoiler alert: she looks great and nobody's judgy that she had lifesaving surgery)
Read online forums & look at lots of photos of different breasts & bodies, to teach YOURSELF that your body looks great
Follow some body positive and breast / #mastectomy Instagram accounts to give yourself lots of examples of how awesome different bodies look
Post your (perhaps faceless) nudes online and see what ppl say
Do some cam stuff
Go to a nude beach
Do a private nude photoshoot
Try nude modelling for an art class
Go to a swingers club with husband's blessing, or with husband
Have some extra-marital hookups - with non-work people - with husband's blessing
Cheat on husband with random person
Cheat on husband with work person
Cheat on husband with boss, aka the one work person who can totally ruin your career
In short, the validation you seek is normal and reasonable. And there are LOTS of ways to get this kind of validation. PLEASE don't skip right to the most nuclear option.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 12:43 PM on January 21, 2018 [8 favorites]
The "soulmate" remark was probably a joke. Anybody who meant it seriously in the context you established is not quite all there. Anybody who is receptive to an affair with a married subordinate is a dangerous and unethical person who will not treat you well. If you were only in it for an illicit fling and didn't care what kind of person he was as long as the sex was good, that would be one thing, except he is your boss. You may not need or want your marriage but you certainly need your job.
you are treating your marriage the way you need to be treating your job. Your job is the thing you don't blow up until you've validated your marketability by having another thing lined up and waiting for you. not your marriage, your job. it's really crucial not to reverse this.
I have no interest in convincing you to stay faithful to your husband; feeling entitled to an affair because he's had three of his own (that you know about) isn't exactly the kind of mindset that marriage counselors encourage but it's hard to argue with. "Of course we have major blow ups a couple of times a year" -- wtf "of course," you have every right to enjoy or want to keep a relationship like that but there's no of course about it.
but who cares about that, really. If you want to flirt and maybe sleep with someone else to see if you've still got it, go do that. but not with your boss. jesus. unless you are independently wealthy and do this job for fun, not for money.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:46 PM on January 21, 2018 [13 favorites]
you are treating your marriage the way you need to be treating your job. Your job is the thing you don't blow up until you've validated your marketability by having another thing lined up and waiting for you. not your marriage, your job. it's really crucial not to reverse this.
I have no interest in convincing you to stay faithful to your husband; feeling entitled to an affair because he's had three of his own (that you know about) isn't exactly the kind of mindset that marriage counselors encourage but it's hard to argue with. "Of course we have major blow ups a couple of times a year" -- wtf "of course," you have every right to enjoy or want to keep a relationship like that but there's no of course about it.
but who cares about that, really. If you want to flirt and maybe sleep with someone else to see if you've still got it, go do that. but not with your boss. jesus. unless you are independently wealthy and do this job for fun, not for money.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:46 PM on January 21, 2018 [13 favorites]
This is a midlife thing.
I am not going to condemn you, but I am going to tell you that you need to put this in full reverse immediately and then do some thinking.
It is absolutely understandable that you would feel drawn to another person after all you have been through -but I can assure you that first, we do not have to act on our impulses, and second, this particular impulse could destroy your marriage, your career, and leave your selfesteem in ashes. Or, you could chance a roll in the hay and simply realize the worms will not go back in the can, and make life way more complicated than it needs to be.
To be helpful to you, you need to sit down and think out all the worst case scenarios that could happen and realize that they are way more likely than not.
I was tempted in this way at about your age. A lot of us are. But I had too much to lose, and so do you.
(This is also a signal that you have unmet needs, and it is good for you to figure out what they are and find a healthy way to meet them. That is what I did and I also recommend that to you.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:50 PM on January 21, 2018 [6 favorites]
I am not going to condemn you, but I am going to tell you that you need to put this in full reverse immediately and then do some thinking.
It is absolutely understandable that you would feel drawn to another person after all you have been through -but I can assure you that first, we do not have to act on our impulses, and second, this particular impulse could destroy your marriage, your career, and leave your selfesteem in ashes. Or, you could chance a roll in the hay and simply realize the worms will not go back in the can, and make life way more complicated than it needs to be.
To be helpful to you, you need to sit down and think out all the worst case scenarios that could happen and realize that they are way more likely than not.
I was tempted in this way at about your age. A lot of us are. But I had too much to lose, and so do you.
(This is also a signal that you have unmet needs, and it is good for you to figure out what they are and find a healthy way to meet them. That is what I did and I also recommend that to you.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:50 PM on January 21, 2018 [6 favorites]
Do not do this.
If the boss finds you sexy, it doesn't mean it's going to repair the loss you feel over your body. Just as you feel your husband desires you because of your long relationship, even if the boss gives you compliments in bed, you might still feel he is attracted to you because of the novelty and forbidden quality of the connection. Then what? Find someone else to see if he can repair your sense of sexual self esteem? None of this can work.
As for the thinking of the same thing as the same time: yes, this can happen. It can mean you're thinking along the same lines at the same moment. It's a cool feeling. But this kind of synchronicity is like a party trick in comparison to the connection of actually being two separate people who have worked hard to know each other and build a "we." That's what you have with your husband.
It almost sounds as if you're re-thinking your husband's affairs to excuse your own. This is such a bad idea, human as it is. Having an affair *after* all the work you two have done sounds terribly sad.
This is what I think you should do. Recognize that your boss is probably not the most decent guy. But I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying a small sense of flirtation at work. It can make your work better, put a spring in your step. Just don't take it seriously. Go back to counseling with your husband and plan a vacation with him, too.
posted by velveeta underground at 12:53 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
If the boss finds you sexy, it doesn't mean it's going to repair the loss you feel over your body. Just as you feel your husband desires you because of your long relationship, even if the boss gives you compliments in bed, you might still feel he is attracted to you because of the novelty and forbidden quality of the connection. Then what? Find someone else to see if he can repair your sense of sexual self esteem? None of this can work.
As for the thinking of the same thing as the same time: yes, this can happen. It can mean you're thinking along the same lines at the same moment. It's a cool feeling. But this kind of synchronicity is like a party trick in comparison to the connection of actually being two separate people who have worked hard to know each other and build a "we." That's what you have with your husband.
It almost sounds as if you're re-thinking your husband's affairs to excuse your own. This is such a bad idea, human as it is. Having an affair *after* all the work you two have done sounds terribly sad.
This is what I think you should do. Recognize that your boss is probably not the most decent guy. But I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying a small sense of flirtation at work. It can make your work better, put a spring in your step. Just don't take it seriously. Go back to counseling with your husband and plan a vacation with him, too.
posted by velveeta underground at 12:53 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
In addition to the excellent advice above: This type of quick, intense connection very seldom lasts outside of the situation it started in. It rises up and dies down quickly. If you hooked up with this guy, in a year the intensity of your feelings would almost certainly be long gone. And by happy coincidence, if you just sit tight and do nothing, this crush will also almost certainly be long gone in a year. By far the most likely situation here is that if you sit tight, twelve months from now you will look back with confusion on your current feelings and think "thank god I didn't blow up my life over something so fleeting".
Future married you almost certainly has a better economic future and a more secure retirement; future married you provides a better start in life to her kids because they don't have to deal with your affair and job loss; future married you doesn't need to process the shame and bad feelings about the affair.
Future affair you will take a career hit, will be less economically secure, will not have a life partner to stand by her in illness or hardship, will have added stress to her relationship with her children...and for what? Four or five months of sex on the sly. The worries and sorrows you have now will shrink to nothing beside the ones you'll have afterward.
But if you sit with these feelings for a while, they will die down and you'll no longer feel the need to plunge into an ill-advised affair. Whatever else you do, use all your emotional energy to prevent sleeping with this guy - whatever else you need to do emotionally, whatever else gets neglected, focus on sitting tight.
posted by Frowner at 12:53 PM on January 21, 2018 [7 favorites]
Future married you almost certainly has a better economic future and a more secure retirement; future married you provides a better start in life to her kids because they don't have to deal with your affair and job loss; future married you doesn't need to process the shame and bad feelings about the affair.
Future affair you will take a career hit, will be less economically secure, will not have a life partner to stand by her in illness or hardship, will have added stress to her relationship with her children...and for what? Four or five months of sex on the sly. The worries and sorrows you have now will shrink to nothing beside the ones you'll have afterward.
But if you sit with these feelings for a while, they will die down and you'll no longer feel the need to plunge into an ill-advised affair. Whatever else you do, use all your emotional energy to prevent sleeping with this guy - whatever else you need to do emotionally, whatever else gets neglected, focus on sitting tight.
posted by Frowner at 12:53 PM on January 21, 2018 [7 favorites]
You should know that the post-female-cancer affair is so common it's a cancer support group trope. I am not saying don't have an affair; I am saying that it is very likely the affair is less about the dude and more about the cancer.
I would hurry hurry hurry to an oncology therapist, post haste.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:54 PM on January 21, 2018 [23 favorites]
I would hurry hurry hurry to an oncology therapist, post haste.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:54 PM on January 21, 2018 [23 favorites]
I'm going to guess that, as a 48-year-old woman who's done a lot of work in therapy, you are actually smarter than this. Like, if you imagined a long-married woman friend with kids coming to you and saying, "OMG I totally think I could have a GREAT affair with my boss, who just came on to me in the workplace, it stands a REALLY GOOD CHANCE of improving my life," I'm sure you'd imagine telling her, "Oh, hon, this is not only not the solution to your problems, it's the gateway to like fifty other problems." Right now, you are consumed with the temporary stupidity that overcomes just about all of us when we first feel that spark, especially after a long time. But it's not you. It's just your brain fucking with you. Recognize that your judgment is compromised right now and this is not the moment to make potentially catastrophically life-altering decisions.
Back to therapy, and be super careful around your creep of a boss.
posted by praemunire at 12:55 PM on January 21, 2018 [4 favorites]
Back to therapy, and be super careful around your creep of a boss.
posted by praemunire at 12:55 PM on January 21, 2018 [4 favorites]
You don’t need to make so many decisions right now.
The only decision you need to make is whether you want to start a relationship with your boss right now. The overwhelming response is that this man is your boss, and that makes it absolutely a no-go.
Set a reminder on your calendar. Be good for 6 months or more. Enjoy interactions with your boss, but keep it clean. Most of all don’t make trouble for your coworkers.
In 6 months see how things feel. See if the employment situation is the same.
If 6 months later feels about the same as today, set a new reminder on your calendar for 6 years from now. Think a lot. Run or swim or lift a lot. You have lots of time. Enjoy the simmer between you. It’s one of the most delicious feelings humans can have.
Life is really complicated. That’s ok. Emotions are complicated. No one is dying this week. Give yourself more time to know what you want and don’t let the panic of these intense feelings make decisions for you. Slower, slower, a lot slower.
It’s natural for humans to feel connections to other people. We should celebrate and cherish human connections.
But you need to protect yourself and getting mixed up with your boss is very dangerous to your security.
Give it lots of time. Be patient. Let it simmer. For the next six months or so, change nothing. In months, or maybe wait years, it will become clear what you should do.
posted by littlewater at 1:03 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
The only decision you need to make is whether you want to start a relationship with your boss right now. The overwhelming response is that this man is your boss, and that makes it absolutely a no-go.
Set a reminder on your calendar. Be good for 6 months or more. Enjoy interactions with your boss, but keep it clean. Most of all don’t make trouble for your coworkers.
In 6 months see how things feel. See if the employment situation is the same.
If 6 months later feels about the same as today, set a new reminder on your calendar for 6 years from now. Think a lot. Run or swim or lift a lot. You have lots of time. Enjoy the simmer between you. It’s one of the most delicious feelings humans can have.
Life is really complicated. That’s ok. Emotions are complicated. No one is dying this week. Give yourself more time to know what you want and don’t let the panic of these intense feelings make decisions for you. Slower, slower, a lot slower.
It’s natural for humans to feel connections to other people. We should celebrate and cherish human connections.
But you need to protect yourself and getting mixed up with your boss is very dangerous to your security.
Give it lots of time. Be patient. Let it simmer. For the next six months or so, change nothing. In months, or maybe wait years, it will become clear what you should do.
posted by littlewater at 1:03 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
Your boss is clearly a predator
I don't know about that though he might as well be for the effect he is having. He's single and the boss and a male. He doesn't have much to lose with this flirtation. Especially as OP is married and therefore "off-limits." That makes it relatively risk free for him to flatter and be effusive and even flirty to her. She's not going to respond because she's married, right?
This happens a lot in reverse, I've had male friends say, "My wedding ring is catnip!" And I say, "Well, maybe... but more likely it's because you are safe. She's flirting with you because it's fun to flirt and she has no consequences because you are married so the answer is already 'no.'"
He's got nothing to lose and he's very comfortable. You have everything to lose and are balanced on a ledge.
Rather than going on a romantic couples weekend, I suggest that you might take a weekend away yourself. Just to be alone with your thoughts and nothing but yourself to mind and please. This stuff is hard. I don't think you have to "solve" your life in this way.
posted by amanda at 1:10 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
I don't know about that though he might as well be for the effect he is having. He's single and the boss and a male. He doesn't have much to lose with this flirtation. Especially as OP is married and therefore "off-limits." That makes it relatively risk free for him to flatter and be effusive and even flirty to her. She's not going to respond because she's married, right?
This happens a lot in reverse, I've had male friends say, "My wedding ring is catnip!" And I say, "Well, maybe... but more likely it's because you are safe. She's flirting with you because it's fun to flirt and she has no consequences because you are married so the answer is already 'no.'"
He's got nothing to lose and he's very comfortable. You have everything to lose and are balanced on a ledge.
Rather than going on a romantic couples weekend, I suggest that you might take a weekend away yourself. Just to be alone with your thoughts and nothing but yourself to mind and please. This stuff is hard. I don't think you have to "solve" your life in this way.
posted by amanda at 1:10 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
I specifically thought he was taking advantage of your mental state and vulnerabilities as a cancer survivor. Glad someone else mentioned this.
You have children and a marriage and you almost lost your life. The only kind of person who encourages you to have an affair that will 100% blow up your family and job is a sadistic sociopath with an addiction to risk. He will walk away CLEAN from the thrill of getting you to betray yourself and those you love, and the job that supports you. You will be left with a smoldering wreckage, possibly without a job, possibly divorced.
He's a predator. Anyone who genuinely likes you would not put you in a position to be profoundly hurt or lose everything.
posted by jbenben at 1:12 PM on January 21, 2018 [9 favorites]
You have children and a marriage and you almost lost your life. The only kind of person who encourages you to have an affair that will 100% blow up your family and job is a sadistic sociopath with an addiction to risk. He will walk away CLEAN from the thrill of getting you to betray yourself and those you love, and the job that supports you. You will be left with a smoldering wreckage, possibly without a job, possibly divorced.
He's a predator. Anyone who genuinely likes you would not put you in a position to be profoundly hurt or lose everything.
posted by jbenben at 1:12 PM on January 21, 2018 [9 favorites]
I can't interpret, I wasn't there. But what are the chances that the quip "maybe you're my soulmate" was actually meant as "what a coincidence, great we've got a cohesive team spirit, haha isn't that funny" and the instant he said it (which he figured he could do, I say things around my married friends that I wouldn't say to single people who might think I meant it) he realized how awkward that sounded and wished he could just sink into the floor, and is hoping you'll never mention this again?
posted by aimedwander at 1:19 PM on January 21, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by aimedwander at 1:19 PM on January 21, 2018 [7 favorites]
There is not a good person on this planet or any other who would agree to a sexual relationship with a subordinate. It is itself a disqualifying factor. Even if you were single, this would be terrible behavior you're asking your boss to engage in. Find another job. If this guy stays in contact with you and continues to be this complimentary once you're no longer working together daily, then come back to this question. If you aren't willing to find another job to manage this, then there's no way you should be willing to consider divorcing to manage this.
posted by Sequence at 1:22 PM on January 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Sequence at 1:22 PM on January 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
Hi. My mum went through something similar with her top boss after she had suffered a trauma in her mid-fifties. He became very close, they had an affair, it lasted three weeks, and it traumatised her for at least a year when she realised it had all been about him taking advantage of her. I don't think she actually called him a predator, but I'm pretty sure that's what she felt like - like she was easy prey because she was vulnerable. There was nothing she could do except keep going to work and avoiding work social events. It compounded her depressed feelings from the prior trauma. She didn't have a husband to cheat on, but she felt shame for cheating on herself.
posted by Thella at 1:24 PM on January 21, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by Thella at 1:24 PM on January 21, 2018 [11 favorites]
I know this is a bad idea. You know this is a bad idea. We all know this is a bad idea.
What I'm worried about is whether knowing that it's a bad idea, and that element of danger and risk and shame is actually making this more adrenaline-thrill appealing to you on top of the infatuation and novelty hormones.
So I'm not going to go into depth about how this is a bad idea. But it's a bad idea. You're smart. You know what's happening here. Don't kid yourself. Take control of yourself now and get yourself to back to therapy before this gets out of hand.
Also, like, if you aren't happy with your body, or your marriage, or your sex life, or your job, you have other options. You aren't backed into a corner. Even if you do decide that you want to burn it all to the ground, you don't have to do it like this. You deserve better.
posted by windykites at 1:27 PM on January 21, 2018 [11 favorites]
What I'm worried about is whether knowing that it's a bad idea, and that element of danger and risk and shame is actually making this more adrenaline-thrill appealing to you on top of the infatuation and novelty hormones.
So I'm not going to go into depth about how this is a bad idea. But it's a bad idea. You're smart. You know what's happening here. Don't kid yourself. Take control of yourself now and get yourself to back to therapy before this gets out of hand.
Also, like, if you aren't happy with your body, or your marriage, or your sex life, or your job, you have other options. You aren't backed into a corner. Even if you do decide that you want to burn it all to the ground, you don't have to do it like this. You deserve better.
posted by windykites at 1:27 PM on January 21, 2018 [11 favorites]
I am very suspicious of your boss. His comment is so far outside of a normal interaction that I would stay far away from him. Do you have any intimacy with him? It just seems like a very bizarre thing to tell someone with whom you have little intimacy. It is either a very bad joke or your boss is a terrible person.
Have you considered individual therapy? It sounds like you're in emotional pain that an affair isn't going to solve.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:28 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
Have you considered individual therapy? It sounds like you're in emotional pain that an affair isn't going to solve.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:28 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
I don't want to creep you out, but it sounds like he is grooming you. Take a breather from this relationship with your boss - refocus on your marriage, work on keeping work professional and go see a therapist to talk this out.
posted by Toddles at 1:29 PM on January 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Toddles at 1:29 PM on January 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
actually meant as "what a coincidence, great we've got a cohesive team spirit, haha isn't that funny
yeah I am imagining some kind of interoffice messaging system where I say "we need to order more pens, bic ballpoints or those fine line micron art pen thingies? and somebody says "microns obvs" and I tell them they are my soulmate
well, I would definitely mean it in the moment but it would not be an invitation to anything, let's say.
PLUS if the context was entirely different and extremely meaningful and completely serious, this is not the way to start an attractiveness-validating fling? like if he sincerely thought you were meant for each other (WHICH HE DOES NOT), and you as good as said you just want to see if some convenient guy thinks you're sexy -- getting rid of him at the end of it would be an unspeakable mess. this is a straight line to you breaking it off after a one-night stand and him firing you in a fit of vindictiveness. powerful people aren't reasonable when they get their feelings hurt.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:29 PM on January 21, 2018 [8 favorites]
yeah I am imagining some kind of interoffice messaging system where I say "we need to order more pens, bic ballpoints or those fine line micron art pen thingies? and somebody says "microns obvs" and I tell them they are my soulmate
well, I would definitely mean it in the moment but it would not be an invitation to anything, let's say.
PLUS if the context was entirely different and extremely meaningful and completely serious, this is not the way to start an attractiveness-validating fling? like if he sincerely thought you were meant for each other (WHICH HE DOES NOT), and you as good as said you just want to see if some convenient guy thinks you're sexy -- getting rid of him at the end of it would be an unspeakable mess. this is a straight line to you breaking it off after a one-night stand and him firing you in a fit of vindictiveness. powerful people aren't reasonable when they get their feelings hurt.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:29 PM on January 21, 2018 [8 favorites]
About workplace crushes: 9 months is nothing. He probably hasn't had to do actual difficult management yet, nobody is pissed off at him, he's easy to like. In another year or so, there will be friends who are irritated with things he's done, ways he's accidentally screwed your team over, the total lack of advocating with the next bosses up even when he says he's on your side, and OMG that same catch phrase he uses in every meeting when he's reminding people about their deadlines. I had a crush on a manager/senior colleague for a while, and by the time I left that job I would have happily left him stranded by the side of the road if I saw him hitchiking. Float a skeptical "so do you think newguy is ever going to settle in here" conversation past some of your work buddies, and keep your opinion medium-irritated and not all glowy-crush, and you could find out a few things.
posted by aimedwander at 1:42 PM on January 21, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by aimedwander at 1:42 PM on January 21, 2018 [7 favorites]
Could be your boss is divorced because he has affairs with as many underlings as possible; you might be the 17th woman he has called his "soulmate" (he could be on some PUA site right now bragging about how he's about to reel another one in).
As to wondering if you are still attractive, you've got two men (your husband and your boss) who want to have have sex with you.
posted by 445supermag at 4:17 PM on January 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
As to wondering if you are still attractive, you've got two men (your husband and your boss) who want to have have sex with you.
posted by 445supermag at 4:17 PM on January 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
It sounds like you’ve been through a lot, in your marriage and with your health. Nothing you’re feeling is wrong, but you seem aware you’re at a crossroads. But the choice isn’t really between your boss or your husband. It’s between the status quo and making a change.
Is it possible you haven’t moved as far past your husband’s affairs as you thought? Is it possible you’re not satisfied with your life together? Is there something you would change even if the boss wasn’t a factor? It’s important to you to be seen as smart, to have your ideas validated. Do you get that in your marriage?
If all you want is assurance that somebody could be attracted to you (a universal need, in my experience), well, you have that.
However, the soulmate line is indefensible from a boss and extremely creepy from someone you don’t know intimately well, regardless of the work situation. From where I sit, it sounds like a horrible pickup line from someone who just wants to sleep with you, feigning intimacy and pretending he could offer you everything you need but don’t get from your husband. Oldest trick in the book.
posted by kapers at 4:23 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
Is it possible you haven’t moved as far past your husband’s affairs as you thought? Is it possible you’re not satisfied with your life together? Is there something you would change even if the boss wasn’t a factor? It’s important to you to be seen as smart, to have your ideas validated. Do you get that in your marriage?
If all you want is assurance that somebody could be attracted to you (a universal need, in my experience), well, you have that.
However, the soulmate line is indefensible from a boss and extremely creepy from someone you don’t know intimately well, regardless of the work situation. From where I sit, it sounds like a horrible pickup line from someone who just wants to sleep with you, feigning intimacy and pretending he could offer you everything you need but don’t get from your husband. Oldest trick in the book.
posted by kapers at 4:23 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
Do not ever go on a date with or get sexy with someone who has the power to hire and fire you.
Your boss's behavior toward you is inappropriate: if he's willing to hit on you and call you his soulmate despite your professional relationship, he's willing to fire you over bullshit when he gets bored or you stop giving him whatever he wants. Your boss is a creepy creep. You need to shut this down fast and stand firm on that.
If you want to know whether men / people of whatever gender find you attractive, figure out what you want to do about that somewhere outside of your workplace, with someone who you have an equal power relationship with.
posted by bile and syntax at 5:16 PM on January 21, 2018 [5 favorites]
Your boss's behavior toward you is inappropriate: if he's willing to hit on you and call you his soulmate despite your professional relationship, he's willing to fire you over bullshit when he gets bored or you stop giving him whatever he wants. Your boss is a creepy creep. You need to shut this down fast and stand firm on that.
If you want to know whether men / people of whatever gender find you attractive, figure out what you want to do about that somewhere outside of your workplace, with someone who you have an equal power relationship with.
posted by bile and syntax at 5:16 PM on January 21, 2018 [5 favorites]
Let's see... Pursuing this is risking future rejection by both your job / career and your family. It's like you're in the first verse of a country song! Now tell me about how awesome your dog is, because before this song is over, you'll lose the dog too.
posted by Doc_Sock at 6:00 PM on January 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Doc_Sock at 6:00 PM on January 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
Nope, nope, nope. Not only are you jeopardizing your marriage which you have fought incredibly hard for, you are jeopardizing your job.
I found myself in a somewhat similar predicament a few years ago when I almost donated a kidney to a complete stranger. I was standing on that cliff and it finally dawned on me that I was not doing this for altruism but because I wanted some sort of change in my life and I felt extremely trapped in all of the logical areas (job, family, etc). Once I figured that out, I knew that something else had to change - so I eventually quit my job and went back to school before finding my current job in which I am so much happier.
Do not go over this cliff.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 6:34 PM on January 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
I found myself in a somewhat similar predicament a few years ago when I almost donated a kidney to a complete stranger. I was standing on that cliff and it finally dawned on me that I was not doing this for altruism but because I wanted some sort of change in my life and I felt extremely trapped in all of the logical areas (job, family, etc). Once I figured that out, I knew that something else had to change - so I eventually quit my job and went back to school before finding my current job in which I am so much happier.
Do not go over this cliff.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 6:34 PM on January 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
Do you want to throw away your marriage for a relationship with a man who believes that cheating is acceptable? Because if your boss thinks it’s ok for you to cheat on your husband, then your boss will also think it’s ok if he cheats on you.
posted by MexicanYenta at 8:44 PM on January 21, 2018
posted by MexicanYenta at 8:44 PM on January 21, 2018
Since your boss is being drastically inappropriate with you, I hope you look for another job where you can work in a healthier environment.
posted by Eevee at 8:54 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Eevee at 8:54 PM on January 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
People have been having affairs since the dawn of time. There is nothing exceptional there. You could go ahead and sleep with your boss, without letting your husband know.
The only issue I see is this: if you feel the need to seek permission here on Metafilter (of all places), it means you may not be cut out from this. So, think twice.
posted by Kwadeng at 11:51 PM on January 21, 2018
The only issue I see is this: if you feel the need to seek permission here on Metafilter (of all places), it means you may not be cut out from this. So, think twice.
posted by Kwadeng at 11:51 PM on January 21, 2018
There have been many times I have been thinking to myself about a solution to a problem we’re having on the team. Then he will send a team email,basically saying the solution I was thinking!
I don’t believe in coincidences. After this happened several times I mentioned it to him. He said he thinks I’m his soulmate. My legs went wobbly. I found myself saying (out loud), “Maybe you are.”
If your boss was serious, then he is GROSS and manipulative and you should get a new job just to get away from him. Ugh, I shudder to think what he would do to your life if you tried to have a relationship with him.
If your boss was kidding (which seems like a possibility), then it seems like you are desperate for validation from someone who is basically a stranger as a way to avoid working on your marriage and your struggle to cope with the aftermath of your cancer.
I also wonder if you somehow feel you are "owed" a freebie affair because your husband had three. But that isn't how it works, and throwing napalm all over the life you fought so hard for is just a disastrous idea, for a dude who is 100% not worth it.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:44 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don’t believe in coincidences. After this happened several times I mentioned it to him. He said he thinks I’m his soulmate. My legs went wobbly. I found myself saying (out loud), “Maybe you are.”
If your boss was serious, then he is GROSS and manipulative and you should get a new job just to get away from him. Ugh, I shudder to think what he would do to your life if you tried to have a relationship with him.
If your boss was kidding (which seems like a possibility), then it seems like you are desperate for validation from someone who is basically a stranger as a way to avoid working on your marriage and your struggle to cope with the aftermath of your cancer.
I also wonder if you somehow feel you are "owed" a freebie affair because your husband had three. But that isn't how it works, and throwing napalm all over the life you fought so hard for is just a disastrous idea, for a dude who is 100% not worth it.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:44 AM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
I wanted to add a thought on the work-specific part of your attraction.
I've been attracted to co-workers. I think people - including myself - take the things we have to do for work, and misinterpret them emotionally. (This isn't any complex brain/evolution theory, just my own experience.)
For example, I am required by a job to be in a room with a coworker for eight hours a day. But after a while I might start registering that emotionally: 'This person is always here, and reliable, and must want to be near me!'
Or I need to be sensitive to my boss's opinion, because they have a lot of control over my life, and whether I'm deemed to be successful at my job. But emotionally, I start to think that this must be something personal, rather than structural: 'I should please them... because they're great, and important to me! Their approval feels good because we have a connection!')
Of course, it can be both - I have office friends, and have dated a co-worker (*after* I left the job). But the demands of work - the enforced proximity, the extra politeness, the complex hierarchies - are perhaps a bit subtle for our emotions, or our lust. All those complex work dynamics, or boring work necessities, get mashed up into a simple and misleading message: 'I like them! They like me! This is sexy!'
Good luck if you, like me, have crossed your wires in this way.
posted by Socksmith at 7:57 AM on January 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
I've been attracted to co-workers. I think people - including myself - take the things we have to do for work, and misinterpret them emotionally. (This isn't any complex brain/evolution theory, just my own experience.)
For example, I am required by a job to be in a room with a coworker for eight hours a day. But after a while I might start registering that emotionally: 'This person is always here, and reliable, and must want to be near me!'
Or I need to be sensitive to my boss's opinion, because they have a lot of control over my life, and whether I'm deemed to be successful at my job. But emotionally, I start to think that this must be something personal, rather than structural: 'I should please them... because they're great, and important to me! Their approval feels good because we have a connection!')
Of course, it can be both - I have office friends, and have dated a co-worker (*after* I left the job). But the demands of work - the enforced proximity, the extra politeness, the complex hierarchies - are perhaps a bit subtle for our emotions, or our lust. All those complex work dynamics, or boring work necessities, get mashed up into a simple and misleading message: 'I like them! They like me! This is sexy!'
Good luck if you, like me, have crossed your wires in this way.
posted by Socksmith at 7:57 AM on January 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
He has told me he thinks I’m the smartest person on his team, which is a huge deal to me.
Look at why this matters so much to you. Why is it a "huge deal" that someone thinks you're smart? It's a flag for some underlying insecurity and need for approval. That's a manipulative thing to say and really inappropriate from a team leader - but it's working on you. Why? Concur with others: therapy check-in time.
posted by Miko at 8:02 AM on January 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
Look at why this matters so much to you. Why is it a "huge deal" that someone thinks you're smart? It's a flag for some underlying insecurity and need for approval. That's a manipulative thing to say and really inappropriate from a team leader - but it's working on you. Why? Concur with others: therapy check-in time.
posted by Miko at 8:02 AM on January 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
sleeping with your sleazy unprofessional boss is a HORRIBLE idea
I agree with this. This is good advice.
The kitchen of your marriage might need remodeling, but step 1 is not "burn down the house"
If your boss was one of my mangers I'd fire him for what he's said to you. That's not a person you want in your life more than he is.
posted by French Fry at 11:29 AM on January 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
I agree with this. This is good advice.
The kitchen of your marriage might need remodeling, but step 1 is not "burn down the house"
If your boss was one of my mangers I'd fire him for what he's said to you. That's not a person you want in your life more than he is.
posted by French Fry at 11:29 AM on January 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
If you are your boss's "soulmate," then obviously he will want you to be his peer - will he support you in getting a job of equal status to his, where you are not at all subordinate to him? Will he do it without any promise that you'll leave, cheat on, or negotiate with your husband to have sex with him?
If not, then "soulmate" is not the word for what he thinks you are to him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:38 PM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
If not, then "soulmate" is not the word for what he thinks you are to him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:38 PM on January 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Your husband has had 3 extramarital affairs, and something tells me he didn’t suddenly stop cheating on you over the last 17 years, he just took his cheating further underground. I’ll say it. You are owed some affairs of your own. I’m surprised folks are not saying that more strongly. Cheating on your long-term serial cheater is ok to do. Turnabout is fair play and all.
Pretty much you just beat death, and turning to life-affirming activities like hot sex is only natural. It’s a totally ok thing for you to live a little and get out there and really feel your sexuality and aliveness right now. Have a torrid affair, just absolutely not with your super creepy boss and his icky “soulmate” grooming shenanigans. Never, ever shit where you eat. Go meet some new menfolk online, have fun and be safe!
posted by edithkeeler at 8:12 PM on January 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
Pretty much you just beat death, and turning to life-affirming activities like hot sex is only natural. It’s a totally ok thing for you to live a little and get out there and really feel your sexuality and aliveness right now. Have a torrid affair, just absolutely not with your super creepy boss and his icky “soulmate” grooming shenanigans. Never, ever shit where you eat. Go meet some new menfolk online, have fun and be safe!
posted by edithkeeler at 8:12 PM on January 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
Cheating on your long-term serial cheater is ok to do. Turnabout is fair play and all.
Personally I never understood what good will come of lying to somebody who trusts you, regardless of whether or not they've lied to you in the past. I feel like it will just generate an environment of fear - of being caught, of fearing that the other person is doing the same thing, the suspicions, the doubt. Even if you never get caught it will erode the trust and love at the base of your marriage and increase the number of fights as you both begin to interpret the other person's actions and intentions in bad faith. It will end up re-opening some fissures that it took years of couple's therapy to heal, and that's a best case where you don't end up in divorce court.
OP, if you really think that you'd find something life affirming in having a fling with somebody new, why not at least discuss the idea of dipping a toe into polyamory with your husband? It takes a lot of communication to navigate properly, and you will need to set up some ground rules based on what you are both comfortable with, but it's absolutely possible to end up with a network of loving partners who are each able to provide you with validation and experiences that your husband alone cannot. I think it's ridiculous that we expect one person on this planet to meet all of our needs for the rest of our lives (both in bed and day to day), and we're expected to meet all of theirs, and that there's something wrong with us if we fall short - that our relationship is wrong if it isn't perfect. To have to make the choice between destroying a relationship that works in so many ways or feeling "stuck" because you aren't getting 100% of what you need at home seems unnecessarily cruel.
If you're interested in this subject I highly recommend the book The Ethical Slut, which focuses on how to navigate these relationships, including setting and respecting each others' boundaries, and having good communication - including how to talk about it if jealousy creeps up. Polyamory doesn't have to be about having sex with anybody and everybody, it's possible to come to an agreement where, for example, new partners are only allowed if they're vetted with the other spouse. You could start by trying something like a sexy threesome with a mutual friend that you find attractive, and see how being the focus of attention makes you feel. Polyamory covers everything from swinger's parties to going on non-sexual but romantic dates with close friends.
I think that it's perfectly reasonable to want new experiences in your life, especially after this close brush with death, but I agree with the deafening chorus that your boss - or anyone who is fine with you cheating on your husband - is not going to give you the respect you deserve. They are likely to view you as an ego-stroking personal conquest of seduction, a notch on their bedpost, instead of caring about what is best for you and trying to make your life better than when they found you.
posted by Feyala at 2:52 PM on January 23, 2018
Personally I never understood what good will come of lying to somebody who trusts you, regardless of whether or not they've lied to you in the past. I feel like it will just generate an environment of fear - of being caught, of fearing that the other person is doing the same thing, the suspicions, the doubt. Even if you never get caught it will erode the trust and love at the base of your marriage and increase the number of fights as you both begin to interpret the other person's actions and intentions in bad faith. It will end up re-opening some fissures that it took years of couple's therapy to heal, and that's a best case where you don't end up in divorce court.
OP, if you really think that you'd find something life affirming in having a fling with somebody new, why not at least discuss the idea of dipping a toe into polyamory with your husband? It takes a lot of communication to navigate properly, and you will need to set up some ground rules based on what you are both comfortable with, but it's absolutely possible to end up with a network of loving partners who are each able to provide you with validation and experiences that your husband alone cannot. I think it's ridiculous that we expect one person on this planet to meet all of our needs for the rest of our lives (both in bed and day to day), and we're expected to meet all of theirs, and that there's something wrong with us if we fall short - that our relationship is wrong if it isn't perfect. To have to make the choice between destroying a relationship that works in so many ways or feeling "stuck" because you aren't getting 100% of what you need at home seems unnecessarily cruel.
If you're interested in this subject I highly recommend the book The Ethical Slut, which focuses on how to navigate these relationships, including setting and respecting each others' boundaries, and having good communication - including how to talk about it if jealousy creeps up. Polyamory doesn't have to be about having sex with anybody and everybody, it's possible to come to an agreement where, for example, new partners are only allowed if they're vetted with the other spouse. You could start by trying something like a sexy threesome with a mutual friend that you find attractive, and see how being the focus of attention makes you feel. Polyamory covers everything from swinger's parties to going on non-sexual but romantic dates with close friends.
I think that it's perfectly reasonable to want new experiences in your life, especially after this close brush with death, but I agree with the deafening chorus that your boss - or anyone who is fine with you cheating on your husband - is not going to give you the respect you deserve. They are likely to view you as an ego-stroking personal conquest of seduction, a notch on their bedpost, instead of caring about what is best for you and trying to make your life better than when they found you.
posted by Feyala at 2:52 PM on January 23, 2018
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Seriously, this crush on your boss, this inappropriately flirty guy that you've only known for nine short months, risks derailing your entire life: a good marriage, a family, not to mention your career.
posted by doornoise at 11:25 AM on January 21, 2018 [99 favorites]