High time to stop being a "low talker"
January 20, 2018 8:48 AM Subscribe
At the ripe old age of 41, I really want to fix an issue I've had forever: I'm a low talker.
(See Seinfeld for reference if needed. Actually just see Seinfeld, it's honestly pretty great.)
People struggle to hear me, I feel like I'm mumbling, constantly repeating myself. Dating and conversing anywhere even moderately loud is an exercise in futility. I have been told I have a wonderfully calming voice, which is a fantastic trait I suppose, so I just need to tweak the decibels somehow.
"Just talk louder!" seems like it would be the obvious advice. The two issues I have, which are sort of independent:
1) I sound "loud" to myself. If I raise my voice, to my ears I feel like I'm yelling, forever waiting for one of those scenes where suddenly the entire room goes dead silent and I'm caught screaming out an admission to some embarrassing secret. (Hasn't happened yet, but any day now.)
2) "Remembering" to do it (i.e. ingraining the habit): This one is more mundane, but if I can get over #1 somehow, of course I have to have a system to make the change permanent.
As far as my hearing, I hear fine, not overly sensitive as far as I can tell. I can listen to quiet music, loud rock music, it all seems to be at roughly the same volume as everyone else expects. If I was overly sensitive, I'd expect that I'd need everything to be low volume for comfort. (Maybe there's a test to do here.) I've been to a voice coach, at some great expense, but ultimately left with no practical advice. (Except possibly to never pay for such things in advance.)
Anyway, MeFi geniuses, help me get over this! I want to gain volume, confidence, and hold out a tiny secret wish that this would also help me with my goals to do karaoke and comedy. Any ongoing practices, projects, mantras, guidance would be helpful. Thanks! (sotto voce)
(See Seinfeld for reference if needed. Actually just see Seinfeld, it's honestly pretty great.)
People struggle to hear me, I feel like I'm mumbling, constantly repeating myself. Dating and conversing anywhere even moderately loud is an exercise in futility. I have been told I have a wonderfully calming voice, which is a fantastic trait I suppose, so I just need to tweak the decibels somehow.
"Just talk louder!" seems like it would be the obvious advice. The two issues I have, which are sort of independent:
1) I sound "loud" to myself. If I raise my voice, to my ears I feel like I'm yelling, forever waiting for one of those scenes where suddenly the entire room goes dead silent and I'm caught screaming out an admission to some embarrassing secret. (Hasn't happened yet, but any day now.)
2) "Remembering" to do it (i.e. ingraining the habit): This one is more mundane, but if I can get over #1 somehow, of course I have to have a system to make the change permanent.
As far as my hearing, I hear fine, not overly sensitive as far as I can tell. I can listen to quiet music, loud rock music, it all seems to be at roughly the same volume as everyone else expects. If I was overly sensitive, I'd expect that I'd need everything to be low volume for comfort. (Maybe there's a test to do here.) I've been to a voice coach, at some great expense, but ultimately left with no practical advice. (Except possibly to never pay for such things in advance.)
Anyway, MeFi geniuses, help me get over this! I want to gain volume, confidence, and hold out a tiny secret wish that this would also help me with my goals to do karaoke and comedy. Any ongoing practices, projects, mantras, guidance would be helpful. Thanks! (sotto voce)
Response by poster: @HotToddy I have the inverse: I'm constantly using the hand signal from Friends with my teen daughter to quiet her down when speaking with me; but her mother is an acknowledged loud talker (hearing issues, confirmed by others), so I think she just inherited/learned that. Oddly, I did not adapt (in either direction) due to that environment.
posted by rtgoodwin at 8:55 AM on January 20, 2018
posted by rtgoodwin at 8:55 AM on January 20, 2018
Is it possible that the problem is elocution rather than volume?
I'm only asking because I know a person that I can almost never understand without their repeating themselves. I can clearly hear that they're speaking, and if they raise their voice it becomes uncomfortably loud. But they talk a mile a minute and when I look at their mouth it's rarely open more than half an inch. If they repeat themselves more slowly, then the words become clear.
I can't know if this is your problem or not, but if raising your volume isn’t a good option, it might be worth considering.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:56 AM on January 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
I'm only asking because I know a person that I can almost never understand without their repeating themselves. I can clearly hear that they're speaking, and if they raise their voice it becomes uncomfortably loud. But they talk a mile a minute and when I look at their mouth it's rarely open more than half an inch. If they repeat themselves more slowly, then the words become clear.
I can't know if this is your problem or not, but if raising your volume isn’t a good option, it might be worth considering.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:56 AM on January 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
Take a speaking or acting class and learn how to project your voice.
posted by kindall at 8:56 AM on January 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by kindall at 8:56 AM on January 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: @The Underpants Monster First, elocution is such a fabulous word I haven't heard in a long time, so thanks for that. Second, it's possible? I've been told I have a "small mouth", do what you will with that. Your description sounds exactly like what I feel like others are experiencing with me. I think about that a lot actually, and feel rather ridiculous when I force myself to open my mouth more when talking, like it's quite exaggerated and comical.
Will do some research on improving elocution. Thanks!
posted by rtgoodwin at 9:00 AM on January 20, 2018
Will do some research on improving elocution. Thanks!
posted by rtgoodwin at 9:00 AM on January 20, 2018
Response by poster: @kindall Thanks! The voice coach/singing training I took was exactly for that. At the end (of 6 sessions I believe), the teacher kind of gave up exasperated that I couldn't project. The body is a marvel of acoustics, so I do believe it's possible to make a change here. Hence this MeFi quest!
posted by rtgoodwin at 9:01 AM on January 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by rtgoodwin at 9:01 AM on January 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Consider Toastmasters - you'll get to practice speaking in a supportive setting and receive feedback and suggestions. You can tell other members that you're specifically concerned with speaking loudly and clearly enough to be understood. After doing this for a bit, you'll know what it feels like when you're getting it right, and can replicate it in other settings.
This article is by a presentation coach who describes working with a soft speaker - you might find it interesting.
On preview - maybe try a different voice teacher, too.
posted by bunderful at 9:03 AM on January 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
This article is by a presentation coach who describes working with a soft speaker - you might find it interesting.
On preview - maybe try a different voice teacher, too.
posted by bunderful at 9:03 AM on January 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: @bunderful My good friend is a ToastMasters Super Poobah (or whatever the rank is), so I have a good vector there too. Just a paralyzing fear of public speaking...which of course that would help too. Thanks!
(Also: Actually that reminds of the Zen of Screaming series, which I should maybe check back into.)
posted by rtgoodwin at 9:12 AM on January 20, 2018
(Also: Actually that reminds of the Zen of Screaming series, which I should maybe check back into.)
posted by rtgoodwin at 9:12 AM on January 20, 2018
Pitch may be the problem, also. Your "calming voice" may not be where your voice naturally falls at all. This may contribute to not being understood.
A voice teacher told me that when you cough or sneeze, that's when you hear where your voice naturally falls in pitch. You may want to consider raising your pitch, if you push yours down. I tend to speak much lower than where my voice naturally lands, also I used to not move my lips much. The result was that it was hard to understand what I was saying. I have taught myself to move my lips a lot more, and this helps. Raising my pitch is harder, because I have a fear that using my naturally light voice will mean people perceive me as weak. When people can't understand me, though, I raise my pitch and then they understand me, instead of raising the volume of my voice, as I used too. I always feels like a kind of magic trick, that's how much difference it makes. So, I agree with the suggestions to seriously study elocution. But, I would also look at psychological factors for why you may be speaking in such a manner so that people cannot understand you.
posted by Crystal Fox at 9:18 AM on January 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
A voice teacher told me that when you cough or sneeze, that's when you hear where your voice naturally falls in pitch. You may want to consider raising your pitch, if you push yours down. I tend to speak much lower than where my voice naturally lands, also I used to not move my lips much. The result was that it was hard to understand what I was saying. I have taught myself to move my lips a lot more, and this helps. Raising my pitch is harder, because I have a fear that using my naturally light voice will mean people perceive me as weak. When people can't understand me, though, I raise my pitch and then they understand me, instead of raising the volume of my voice, as I used too. I always feels like a kind of magic trick, that's how much difference it makes. So, I agree with the suggestions to seriously study elocution. But, I would also look at psychological factors for why you may be speaking in such a manner so that people cannot understand you.
posted by Crystal Fox at 9:18 AM on January 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
I am a fast talker and a mumbler. I never connected it to the size of my mouth, which is indeed small, but I'm happy to have an excuse.
Years of working in customer-facing positions has helped a lot. When I use my customer service voice, I definitely feel like an actor, perhaps one doing an instructional video. I speak with enunciation and with EASE. I am an anxious, excitable person and talk fast as a result. If I remain calm, I end up talking more slowly and clearly.
That said, it's hard to be mindful about my speech when I'm around people I know well - similar to falling into a childhood accent around family members. I just figure that with those people, it's not as big of a deal.
posted by toastedcheese at 9:21 AM on January 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
Years of working in customer-facing positions has helped a lot. When I use my customer service voice, I definitely feel like an actor, perhaps one doing an instructional video. I speak with enunciation and with EASE. I am an anxious, excitable person and talk fast as a result. If I remain calm, I end up talking more slowly and clearly.
That said, it's hard to be mindful about my speech when I'm around people I know well - similar to falling into a childhood accent around family members. I just figure that with those people, it's not as big of a deal.
posted by toastedcheese at 9:21 AM on January 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: @Crystal Fox Very interesting! I'm told I have a deep'ish voice, but when I hear myself on a recording [that I intended to make, not accidentally], I do sound quite a bit higher pitched. Of course some of that is body acoustics, but it could suggest that when I am purposefully trying to be heard, I do pitch higher. Also when I do "sing" along to music, I do tend to pick higher pitched songs (like Panic! at the Disco) where I feel I sound "better/louder". (External opinions may vary ;) ).
As far as psychological, I'm absolutely shy, a "shrinking violet", so that's a whole other thing to work on. But I do seem to observe the same vocal behavior in situations of which I have "emotional command"; for example when speaking on a topic at work where I'm an expert and "confident" in my place in the discussion. Thanks!
posted by rtgoodwin at 9:31 AM on January 20, 2018
As far as psychological, I'm absolutely shy, a "shrinking violet", so that's a whole other thing to work on. But I do seem to observe the same vocal behavior in situations of which I have "emotional command"; for example when speaking on a topic at work where I'm an expert and "confident" in my place in the discussion. Thanks!
posted by rtgoodwin at 9:31 AM on January 20, 2018
Response by poster: @toastedcheese Funny you should mention that. :) Early in my career I was in tech support, and I gained from that what my kid laughingly calls my "customer service voice". To this day (20+ years later), when I'm calling into a business for support, I absolutely put on a more clear, loud, jocular tone. Part of that is just because I empathize with their difficult job and want to make it an enjoyable call, part of it is probably because I innately recognize that it will be twice as hard to hear me over the phone. (And a last part is probably because of a desire to endear myself to them so they'll actually solve my issue...)
It is exacty as you mention, falling into an accent you once had/were surrounded by. In fact, I thought about this when I heard the term "code switching" on a podcast. It's not exactly the same, but it's a close concept, and something I absolutely do without thinking (start to emulate accents, patterns) very quickly when talking with someone with a different mode of speech. Not Madonna-goes-British levels, but possibly embarrasingly close.
Sorry, I've gotten a bit off topic here, but fascinating thoughts, and something I should consider as I puzzle this out!
posted by rtgoodwin at 9:37 AM on January 20, 2018
It is exacty as you mention, falling into an accent you once had/were surrounded by. In fact, I thought about this when I heard the term "code switching" on a podcast. It's not exactly the same, but it's a close concept, and something I absolutely do without thinking (start to emulate accents, patterns) very quickly when talking with someone with a different mode of speech. Not Madonna-goes-British levels, but possibly embarrasingly close.
Sorry, I've gotten a bit off topic here, but fascinating thoughts, and something I should consider as I puzzle this out!
posted by rtgoodwin at 9:37 AM on January 20, 2018
Best answer: These jumped out at me:
...forever waiting for one of those scenes where suddenly the entire room goes dead silent and I'm caught screaming out an admission to some embarrassing secret. (Hasn't happened yet, but any day now.
...feel rather ridiculous when I force myself to open my mouth more when talking
Coupled with your shyness and these specific fears, I’m guessing you tense up a lot when you speak. And when you tense up, your chest muscles constrict so that your voice comes out at a lower volume, and if your neck and face are also tense, that can lead to the ‘not opening your mouth’ type of mumbling you describe.
So yes, by all means, work on vocal projection, diaphragm control, and elocution. But also start consciously building habits of keeping your body relaxed so that you won’t be fighting both a mental and physical barrier to speaking the way you wish.
posted by ananci at 9:54 AM on January 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
...forever waiting for one of those scenes where suddenly the entire room goes dead silent and I'm caught screaming out an admission to some embarrassing secret. (Hasn't happened yet, but any day now.
...feel rather ridiculous when I force myself to open my mouth more when talking
Coupled with your shyness and these specific fears, I’m guessing you tense up a lot when you speak. And when you tense up, your chest muscles constrict so that your voice comes out at a lower volume, and if your neck and face are also tense, that can lead to the ‘not opening your mouth’ type of mumbling you describe.
So yes, by all means, work on vocal projection, diaphragm control, and elocution. But also start consciously building habits of keeping your body relaxed so that you won’t be fighting both a mental and physical barrier to speaking the way you wish.
posted by ananci at 9:54 AM on January 20, 2018 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: @ananci No lie, from the start to the finish of reading your answer, I noted and had to consciously lower my shoulders from a tensed position. And that's just in a "text conversation"! :) Adding to the list of things to work on. Ironically, I'm told I'm "an amazingly laid back person", but of course I think about the old adage that the quiet ones are the ones shouldering the most burden, etc. Thanks!
posted by rtgoodwin at 10:05 AM on January 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by rtgoodwin at 10:05 AM on January 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
I sound "loud" to myself. If I raise my voice, to my ears I feel like I'm yelling
If this is a signal to limit volume for you, you need to work past it. This isn't helping you.
Pitching up will very likely help. Most people have very little power in their low ranges. Find the tone at which you project best. It's likely much higher than you think.
Did your previous vocal coach do anything with breathing? If not, look for that. You project from your belly, not from your chest or head. It's a trainable technique, but not everyone can do it instinctively.
posted by bonehead at 10:15 AM on January 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
If this is a signal to limit volume for you, you need to work past it. This isn't helping you.
Pitching up will very likely help. Most people have very little power in their low ranges. Find the tone at which you project best. It's likely much higher than you think.
Did your previous vocal coach do anything with breathing? If not, look for that. You project from your belly, not from your chest or head. It's a trainable technique, but not everyone can do it instinctively.
posted by bonehead at 10:15 AM on January 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Heya, rtgoodwin, just a quick note, it's not AskMe convention for the OP to reply to each comment or participate in a discussiony way -- you've asked your question, people will give answers, and you can mark the ones that are most helpful. Best to leave further commenting for strictly necessary clarifications, or a wrapup at the end.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:25 AM on January 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:25 AM on January 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
I have had trouble with mumbling and speaking loudly enough for most of my life. It has always felt like a mechanical issue: if I tried to be louder, it felt like a strain on my throat.
For what it's worth, it's taken me 2.5 years of voice lessons with a good teacher to get to a place where I can speak loudly or sing loudly without strain. I think I had a bunch of bad habits (mostly with my breathing), and so it took a long time to iron them out. So a singing teacher might be able to help, but six sessions might not be enough.
posted by colfax at 10:53 AM on January 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
For what it's worth, it's taken me 2.5 years of voice lessons with a good teacher to get to a place where I can speak loudly or sing loudly without strain. I think I had a bunch of bad habits (mostly with my breathing), and so it took a long time to iron them out. So a singing teacher might be able to help, but six sessions might not be enough.
posted by colfax at 10:53 AM on January 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
I often try to focus on consonants when I realize I've been mumbling. Articulating consonants clearly and putting minuscule pauses between words helps other hear me better, even if I don't raise my volume very much.
posted by lazuli at 11:44 AM on January 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by lazuli at 11:44 AM on January 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Fwiw, I have this problem and I think I got better when I had to shout at people / the driver to get on / off buses.
posted by batter_my_heart at 12:05 PM on January 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by batter_my_heart at 12:05 PM on January 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Go to a speech language pathologist! They have more and different training than a voice coach and this is exactly the kind of thing they can help with. Find one here. Good luck!
posted by Snarl Furillo at 1:45 PM on January 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Snarl Furillo at 1:45 PM on January 20, 2018 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Forgot my MeFi etiquette and was responding to everyone, sorry about that!
I've picked an answer that I think touches on several key areas. Thank you ALL though for your ideas, as I think they are all spot on. I feel like I have several plans to work on!
posted by rtgoodwin at 4:05 PM on January 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've picked an answer that I think touches on several key areas. Thank you ALL though for your ideas, as I think they are all spot on. I feel like I have several plans to work on!
posted by rtgoodwin at 4:05 PM on January 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
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posted by HotToddy at 8:52 AM on January 20, 2018 [1 favorite]