Break our hearts now, later or something else?
January 9, 2018 8:47 AM Subscribe
Dear Mefites,
I apologise in advance for the length of this post but if anybody has time to read through and offer some insight I would really appreciate some objective perspective.
I am a 38 year old woman who for a variety of reasons never had a happy relationship. While I’ve had a couple of multiple year relationships, a 6 months here and couple of years there ,the reoccurring theme was my loving people who couldn’t accept my love and never really loved me in return. My last long term relationship ended because my partner was becoming increasingly violent. That was 2014.
I’m now at a point in my life where for a few years I’ve been in a job I love, I’ve been able to pay for a really great TA therapist with whom I worked with for a year and benefitted from greatly (although have been out of it for a year now and can’t really afford to go back to it at the moment having recently moved home).
In August last year I met a man in a bar, he was visiting my city and only around for a few days but we ended up spending a lot of time together. We really hit it off, I was surprised because he was a lot younger than me. Still we had an instant connection, feeling very comfortable with each other and enjoyed being together a lot in a way I found novel and exciting. When he left we stayed in touch and within a short period of time he suggested I came to visit him in his city. I’d never been to his country before but is only a short flight away so I booked a week and we shared a really wonderful time together.
Towards the end of the holiday he spoke of a plan to come back to my country to work on his English as he was hoping to do a Master in an English speaking country and required to get his IELT band up to a 6.5 His spoken English is good and is a natural communicator so we have always understood each other but he has dyslexia so the written aspect is challenging for him. He asked me how I would feel about “hosting” him and I said if he wanted to contribute to living costs we could see how it goes for a month or so.
In the end we lived together for three months right up until Christmas. Life was easy, we were happy and together every day, all the time. When we had our occasional disagreements we were able to talk about them easily and resolve them. We never went to bed angry , (even the time he let me cut his precious curly hair and of course I messed it up quite badly..) He contributed financially, was always considerate and helpful. Living with him really made my life easier in many ways. We found we had compatible living styles, loved cooking and eating together, sharing domestic chores easily and regularly exercising together, as well as enjoying similarly matched libido. We fell in love, and it was a revelation to me. I have never felt so admired, cherished and appreciated in all my life. I supported him with his English studying and he made me feel like a queen, every single day.
Now lets call him Charlie, he comes from a well known family in country, grew up privileged (although he isn’t spoiled or entitled in any way I’ve noticed) and both his elder siblings have high flying careers. Charlie is under a lot of pressure from his family and himself to achieve big. This is stressing him out and I’ve reminded him many times that at his age, he’s 23, he has time to carve out his own path. He’s an intelligent thoughtful guy with great interpersonal skills and a curious mind but maybe because of his dyslexia, not particularly academic. Despite that, he graduated with a Business degree last year and is hell bent on doing a masters that will allow him to enter a high paying career. This was somewhat surprising to me because he is at heart, more of a creative, anthropologist type character rather than someone cut out for sitting in front of a desk every day. I don’t impress my views heavily upon him but do remind him that he has time to find the right path in life.
To get to the point - Charlie went home for Christmas with the probable plan in place that he would return to my city and me in January with a view to continue working on his English and applying for Masters here. Our communication since we have been apart has been very strong, we video call a couple of times a day, sometimes for hours at a time, cooking together and having dinner over skype. We miss each other a lot and I have been keenly waiting his return.
So it came as a huge shock last night when he told me that his sibling had found him an incredible internship in the capital city of his country. (He’s never admitted it but I am pretty sure his family are dead set against his relationship with a 38 yo woman) The internship is at a fast growing start up which ticks many boxes of his professional interests and will even pay a little amount. There’s promise of potential employment in the future. He just found out about it yesterday and hasn’t said yet he will accept it but it is clear that he is very conflicted. This turn of events lead to a lot of very painful conversation last night - which I suppose was important to have but has left me feeling equally confused.
He fears he might never be able to get the required 6.5 band for his English to do a masters in my country and that he will end up having to leave me in September to go back to his country to do a masters there instead. He said that he worries about that because he has fallen in love so deeply and believes the more time we spend together, the more we will be attached. He’s worried about hurting me and furthermore, we got on to The Future. He wants to have kids one day but not till his 30s as he wants to travel and enjoy his 20s which I totally get. I’ve never been strongly broody but I would have a baby with him if he wanted one – but by the time he is ready I will likely be too old. He talked about lots of ‘what if’s’, that we stay together 2 years, 5 years, 10 years and then it stops working and then I’m nearly 50 and single. He worries about hurting me in a big way and said that maybe this internship was a sign that we should break our hearts now to save more hurt further down the line. I said it was just a sign that his sibling doesn’t want him to go to my country to be with me…
I suspect he will never get his English up to professional level if he stays in his home country now, all the hard work and progress he made in the last few months will slip away. That would be a shame especially as he dreams of working internationally. I’m not wanting to be heavy handed in my argument though, as I am conscious that maybe this internship is the right thing for him and maybe we do have to let go now, as much as that thought pains me. I want the best for him but I also believe that there is plenty opportunity for him in my country – in my city we have some very highly rated universities.
Am I crazy to want to fight for this love? It’s the first time I’ve truly been loved and the thought of losing him is cracking my heart so hard. He’s right that the odds are stacked against our long term compatibility but I think things can change and who knows how it might go?
I don’t doubt his love for me, that is just not in question. I can see that he is struggling with this as much as me, maybe even more so. He did ask me if I would consider moving to the city where his internship was, but I don’t speak the language and they are not big on English in that city, aside from the fact I have a job I love here in my city. I suppose the question that I would like to ask, is there any another way of looking at this that isn’t so fatalistic? Or really is it so clear cut – that the big age gap is too much of a risk and despite the love we have now, we should just call it a day now? Bonus questions – how would I get over this amazing love? It took me 38 years to find and I’m scared nothing will ever match it.
If anyone actually managed to read this screed and has any input, I please ask you be gentle. I realise that I may have set myself up for this by getting involved with someone significantly younger but here I am. I would appreciate any wisdom, similar experience of age gap relationships, suggestions for what I should/could do etc. Thank you.
I am a 38 year old woman who for a variety of reasons never had a happy relationship. While I’ve had a couple of multiple year relationships, a 6 months here and couple of years there ,the reoccurring theme was my loving people who couldn’t accept my love and never really loved me in return. My last long term relationship ended because my partner was becoming increasingly violent. That was 2014.
I’m now at a point in my life where for a few years I’ve been in a job I love, I’ve been able to pay for a really great TA therapist with whom I worked with for a year and benefitted from greatly (although have been out of it for a year now and can’t really afford to go back to it at the moment having recently moved home).
In August last year I met a man in a bar, he was visiting my city and only around for a few days but we ended up spending a lot of time together. We really hit it off, I was surprised because he was a lot younger than me. Still we had an instant connection, feeling very comfortable with each other and enjoyed being together a lot in a way I found novel and exciting. When he left we stayed in touch and within a short period of time he suggested I came to visit him in his city. I’d never been to his country before but is only a short flight away so I booked a week and we shared a really wonderful time together.
Towards the end of the holiday he spoke of a plan to come back to my country to work on his English as he was hoping to do a Master in an English speaking country and required to get his IELT band up to a 6.5 His spoken English is good and is a natural communicator so we have always understood each other but he has dyslexia so the written aspect is challenging for him. He asked me how I would feel about “hosting” him and I said if he wanted to contribute to living costs we could see how it goes for a month or so.
In the end we lived together for three months right up until Christmas. Life was easy, we were happy and together every day, all the time. When we had our occasional disagreements we were able to talk about them easily and resolve them. We never went to bed angry , (even the time he let me cut his precious curly hair and of course I messed it up quite badly..) He contributed financially, was always considerate and helpful. Living with him really made my life easier in many ways. We found we had compatible living styles, loved cooking and eating together, sharing domestic chores easily and regularly exercising together, as well as enjoying similarly matched libido. We fell in love, and it was a revelation to me. I have never felt so admired, cherished and appreciated in all my life. I supported him with his English studying and he made me feel like a queen, every single day.
Now lets call him Charlie, he comes from a well known family in country, grew up privileged (although he isn’t spoiled or entitled in any way I’ve noticed) and both his elder siblings have high flying careers. Charlie is under a lot of pressure from his family and himself to achieve big. This is stressing him out and I’ve reminded him many times that at his age, he’s 23, he has time to carve out his own path. He’s an intelligent thoughtful guy with great interpersonal skills and a curious mind but maybe because of his dyslexia, not particularly academic. Despite that, he graduated with a Business degree last year and is hell bent on doing a masters that will allow him to enter a high paying career. This was somewhat surprising to me because he is at heart, more of a creative, anthropologist type character rather than someone cut out for sitting in front of a desk every day. I don’t impress my views heavily upon him but do remind him that he has time to find the right path in life.
To get to the point - Charlie went home for Christmas with the probable plan in place that he would return to my city and me in January with a view to continue working on his English and applying for Masters here. Our communication since we have been apart has been very strong, we video call a couple of times a day, sometimes for hours at a time, cooking together and having dinner over skype. We miss each other a lot and I have been keenly waiting his return.
So it came as a huge shock last night when he told me that his sibling had found him an incredible internship in the capital city of his country. (He’s never admitted it but I am pretty sure his family are dead set against his relationship with a 38 yo woman) The internship is at a fast growing start up which ticks many boxes of his professional interests and will even pay a little amount. There’s promise of potential employment in the future. He just found out about it yesterday and hasn’t said yet he will accept it but it is clear that he is very conflicted. This turn of events lead to a lot of very painful conversation last night - which I suppose was important to have but has left me feeling equally confused.
He fears he might never be able to get the required 6.5 band for his English to do a masters in my country and that he will end up having to leave me in September to go back to his country to do a masters there instead. He said that he worries about that because he has fallen in love so deeply and believes the more time we spend together, the more we will be attached. He’s worried about hurting me and furthermore, we got on to The Future. He wants to have kids one day but not till his 30s as he wants to travel and enjoy his 20s which I totally get. I’ve never been strongly broody but I would have a baby with him if he wanted one – but by the time he is ready I will likely be too old. He talked about lots of ‘what if’s’, that we stay together 2 years, 5 years, 10 years and then it stops working and then I’m nearly 50 and single. He worries about hurting me in a big way and said that maybe this internship was a sign that we should break our hearts now to save more hurt further down the line. I said it was just a sign that his sibling doesn’t want him to go to my country to be with me…
I suspect he will never get his English up to professional level if he stays in his home country now, all the hard work and progress he made in the last few months will slip away. That would be a shame especially as he dreams of working internationally. I’m not wanting to be heavy handed in my argument though, as I am conscious that maybe this internship is the right thing for him and maybe we do have to let go now, as much as that thought pains me. I want the best for him but I also believe that there is plenty opportunity for him in my country – in my city we have some very highly rated universities.
Am I crazy to want to fight for this love? It’s the first time I’ve truly been loved and the thought of losing him is cracking my heart so hard. He’s right that the odds are stacked against our long term compatibility but I think things can change and who knows how it might go?
I don’t doubt his love for me, that is just not in question. I can see that he is struggling with this as much as me, maybe even more so. He did ask me if I would consider moving to the city where his internship was, but I don’t speak the language and they are not big on English in that city, aside from the fact I have a job I love here in my city. I suppose the question that I would like to ask, is there any another way of looking at this that isn’t so fatalistic? Or really is it so clear cut – that the big age gap is too much of a risk and despite the love we have now, we should just call it a day now? Bonus questions – how would I get over this amazing love? It took me 38 years to find and I’m scared nothing will ever match it.
If anyone actually managed to read this screed and has any input, I please ask you be gentle. I realise that I may have set myself up for this by getting involved with someone significantly younger but here I am. I would appreciate any wisdom, similar experience of age gap relationships, suggestions for what I should/could do etc. Thank you.
Best answer: It took me 38 years to find and I’m scared nothing will ever match it.
No it didn't. It took you about 6 months from the time you ended your course of therapy and the day you met him in a bar. It sounds like a lovely experience but you are seeing it as the last in a line, when in reality it is the first you have engaged in since focusing on yourself. That makes you successful at love!
There are a lot of barriers here. Age, distance, language, family culture. None of those conflicts are temporary - they will all exist throughout your relationship, however long it lasts, and at least one of them is an eventual dealbreaker. It is surely hard to walk away from this love that you have found, but doing so is a show of strength and confidence. You can choose to put yourself first, by choosing to find love with someone whose life can align more closely with yours, without all those built-in conflicts.
posted by headnsouth at 9:19 AM on January 9, 2018 [56 favorites]
No it didn't. It took you about 6 months from the time you ended your course of therapy and the day you met him in a bar. It sounds like a lovely experience but you are seeing it as the last in a line, when in reality it is the first you have engaged in since focusing on yourself. That makes you successful at love!
There are a lot of barriers here. Age, distance, language, family culture. None of those conflicts are temporary - they will all exist throughout your relationship, however long it lasts, and at least one of them is an eventual dealbreaker. It is surely hard to walk away from this love that you have found, but doing so is a show of strength and confidence. You can choose to put yourself first, by choosing to find love with someone whose life can align more closely with yours, without all those built-in conflicts.
posted by headnsouth at 9:19 AM on January 9, 2018 [56 favorites]
The age difference is large, which is already causing some major issues. Like with pregnancy/kids, of course, and also with Charlie still being still so much under the influence of his parents wishes. That is huge! And then there is the fact you have only known each other a few months with really only one answer to your problem, which is him moving to your city. I think you are giving him the ultimatum even though it may have not been presented as such. I think he would be better off without additional input from you at this point.
Your strong feelings about someone so quickly whom you knew wasn't likely to be in your life for very long due to his temporary residency in your country may in part be due to him being safe for you. Having a history of not being in violent or non-nurturing relationships can lead to a fear intimate relationships and understandably so. You need to let this one go and focus on finding someone more suitable and who can take care of your needs. Charlie is someone who still needs his parents and you need someone who wants a partner.
posted by waving at 9:26 AM on January 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
Your strong feelings about someone so quickly whom you knew wasn't likely to be in your life for very long due to his temporary residency in your country may in part be due to him being safe for you. Having a history of not being in violent or non-nurturing relationships can lead to a fear intimate relationships and understandably so. You need to let this one go and focus on finding someone more suitable and who can take care of your needs. Charlie is someone who still needs his parents and you need someone who wants a partner.
posted by waving at 9:26 AM on January 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I'm sure he's a wonderful guy, but he's just out of college, mulling masters programs, pondering what kind of career he'd like to have, dealing with pressure from his parents, thinking about traveling and and enjoying his twenties, I just don't see how this aligns at all with your life or priorities. You're in such fundamentally different places in life. This guy is not a once-in-a-lifetime chance at love. It's so wonderful that you've fallen in love and proven to yourself that you can in fact have love in your life. To paraphrase Harold and Maude, now go out and love some more!
posted by cakelite at 9:41 AM on January 9, 2018 [32 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 9:41 AM on January 9, 2018 [32 favorites]
He talked about lots of ‘what if’s’, that we stay together 2 years, 5 years, 10 years and then it stops working and then I’m nearly 50 and single.
I'm in my thirties and it wouldn't occur to me to fret about the end of a relationship so much because a relationship would be a main commitment in my life. It would be like worrying about dying. It's going to happen, I know, but hopefully not for a long time and I don't have much control anyway. To me that's a big difference between the twenties and thirties. The twenties are a continuously changing landscape of jobs and relationships, and there is always a quest for bigger and better and more. The prospect of major upheaval is always on the horizon, and in my case, it was something I wished for. In the thirties I'm still changing a lot, but I know what my priorities are and it's more like fine-tuning rather than major remodeling. Can you live with a lot of uncertainty? Because that is definitely one thing you'll need to be okay with for this relationship to continue.
posted by amodelcitizen at 10:08 AM on January 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm in my thirties and it wouldn't occur to me to fret about the end of a relationship so much because a relationship would be a main commitment in my life. It would be like worrying about dying. It's going to happen, I know, but hopefully not for a long time and I don't have much control anyway. To me that's a big difference between the twenties and thirties. The twenties are a continuously changing landscape of jobs and relationships, and there is always a quest for bigger and better and more. The prospect of major upheaval is always on the horizon, and in my case, it was something I wished for. In the thirties I'm still changing a lot, but I know what my priorities are and it's more like fine-tuning rather than major remodeling. Can you live with a lot of uncertainty? Because that is definitely one thing you'll need to be okay with for this relationship to continue.
posted by amodelcitizen at 10:08 AM on January 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'll give you the advice I gave to a friend who was having a similar age gap in a relationship.
I think that as the older person in this relationship, you have a slightly extra duty to really consider the well-being of your partner as a young person, as well as a person. And that means not getting in the way of opportunities they really want to take, even if those opportunities lead them away from you. And that's really a way of protecting yourself, because you don't want to be the cause of your partner's regret when you're older.
This is where a May-December relationship is different than one where you march through life's stages more or less together.
So, I think you should support him in his internship, and if he misses you and you miss him then he and you will figure it out pretty quickly. And if not well, now you know what your next relationship should look like.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:23 AM on January 9, 2018 [40 favorites]
I think that as the older person in this relationship, you have a slightly extra duty to really consider the well-being of your partner as a young person, as well as a person. And that means not getting in the way of opportunities they really want to take, even if those opportunities lead them away from you. And that's really a way of protecting yourself, because you don't want to be the cause of your partner's regret when you're older.
This is where a May-December relationship is different than one where you march through life's stages more or less together.
So, I think you should support him in his internship, and if he misses you and you miss him then he and you will figure it out pretty quickly. And if not well, now you know what your next relationship should look like.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:23 AM on January 9, 2018 [40 favorites]
I'm sorry sweetie, it will break your heart, but you're going to have to let this guy go. The differences between you are just too much - especially your different stages in life. He's 23 - he's going to change SO MUCH over the next several years. That's a perfectly normal part of your 20's - figuring out who you are, what you want. It's not fair to either of you to expect him to be the same person in 5, 10, 20 years that he is now. Plus, he wants kids (and most people who want kids want their own biological ones, and more than one), but he won't be ready for them for maybe another decade, which really doesn't fit with your age.
He's being the practical one here, and that hurts too - I was once in a similar situation and the fact that he was able to let me go hurt almost as much as the breakup itself. But honestly, he's being good to you. To both of you, in the long run. Break up now, cherish what you had. Anything else is a recipe for heartache.
I'm sorry. It'll hurt. You'll get through it. In my case, it took about a year, but years on, I have no regrets.
posted by yawper at 10:32 AM on January 9, 2018 [6 favorites]
He's being the practical one here, and that hurts too - I was once in a similar situation and the fact that he was able to let me go hurt almost as much as the breakup itself. But honestly, he's being good to you. To both of you, in the long run. Break up now, cherish what you had. Anything else is a recipe for heartache.
I'm sorry. It'll hurt. You'll get through it. In my case, it took about a year, but years on, I have no regrets.
posted by yawper at 10:32 AM on January 9, 2018 [6 favorites]
Walk away and focus on reality.
My husband is 9 years younger than me and I was 38 when we met. Real life is hard and we only had 1/10th of the obstacles you are facing. Back away from this relationship secure in the knowledge you can find a partner for longterm relationship success.
Life is hard. This is impossible. Walk away feeling grateful for the experience. There's a novelty or limerance phase with every relationship, when it wears off the hard work begins. This relationship won't survive that shift. The easy way is to end things now, the hard way is to go forward and experience insurmountable circumstances that crush the relationship.
At 38 years old I know you know how much life changes between 23 and 30.
posted by jbenben at 11:25 AM on January 9, 2018 [6 favorites]
My husband is 9 years younger than me and I was 38 when we met. Real life is hard and we only had 1/10th of the obstacles you are facing. Back away from this relationship secure in the knowledge you can find a partner for longterm relationship success.
Life is hard. This is impossible. Walk away feeling grateful for the experience. There's a novelty or limerance phase with every relationship, when it wears off the hard work begins. This relationship won't survive that shift. The easy way is to end things now, the hard way is to go forward and experience insurmountable circumstances that crush the relationship.
At 38 years old I know you know how much life changes between 23 and 30.
posted by jbenben at 11:25 AM on January 9, 2018 [6 favorites]
Let him go, but know that although you will mourn the loss of the relationship for a bit, you will always have this beautiful experience in your life. No one can take that from you. It's yours forever to remember and reflect upon. I hope it will make you feel good. Know that you are both obeying Dan Savage's campsite rule, where you leave the person better than you found them. Most relationships don't last, but when they end, they shouldn't tear us apart. Ideally, they should help us grow. I think that's the case here for you.
posted by Knowyournuts at 11:37 AM on January 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Knowyournuts at 11:37 AM on January 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
What will 75 year old you wished you had done?
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:18 PM on January 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 12:18 PM on January 9, 2018 [2 favorites]
Am I crazy to want to fight for this?
Not to put too fine a point on it, you're selfish to want to fight for this relationship. I'm sorry you're hurting, but you need to let this go and back yourself out of his life asap. He's 23 for crying out loud—he doesn't yet have his adult brain. Like all young people, he has a lot of growing up to do/decisions to make over the next few years and given your vested interest, you cannot be an objective source of advice re what may/may not be in his best interest.
posted by she's not there at 12:28 PM on January 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
Not to put too fine a point on it, you're selfish to want to fight for this relationship. I'm sorry you're hurting, but you need to let this go and back yourself out of his life asap. He's 23 for crying out loud—he doesn't yet have his adult brain. Like all young people, he has a lot of growing up to do/decisions to make over the next few years and given your vested interest, you cannot be an objective source of advice re what may/may not be in his best interest.
posted by she's not there at 12:28 PM on January 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
I think you have to go with the "if you love something, set it free" idea here.
That said, I got married at 22, and 17 years later, I have a 16 year old child, a masters degree, an excellent career, and the same husband, who I knew I was going to marry three months after we started dating.
posted by Ruki at 12:58 PM on January 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
That said, I got married at 22, and 17 years later, I have a 16 year old child, a masters degree, an excellent career, and the same husband, who I knew I was going to marry three months after we started dating.
posted by Ruki at 12:58 PM on January 9, 2018 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Age differences seem abstract and like they shouldn't mean anything, and in many ways, they don't, but what they boil down to is being in different places in life: he's in the place of traveling, moving around a lot, and finding his path. The move to your country and the move to this internship won't be the last, I'd guess.
Meanwhile you're settled in your town, in a job you like. You'd be happy to have kids now. Many people in their mid 30s are in that same phase.
But this person sounds like he's telling you he's not ready for that now, may not be ready to settle down for ten years, and has concerns about being with someone who is ready for a serious commitment while he's still finding himself:
He wants to have kids one day but not till his 30s as he wants to travel and enjoy his 20s which I totally get. I’ve never been strongly broody but I would have a baby with him if he wanted one – but by the time he is ready I will likely be too old. He talked about lots of ‘what if’s’, that we stay together 2 years, 5 years, 10 years and then it stops working and then I’m nearly 50 and single.
If it's five years from now and he is still in his late 20s, moving around to build his career, not yet ready to settle down, are you going to feel frustrated even if you know that it's typical for his age? (I'm about your age, and I sure would.) Already you sound a tiny bit frustrated at him losing his English, but this kind of false start is very typical when one is 23.
My sense is that tension over your different places in life may be only likely to grow. It might work if you guys were able to meet in the middle -- if you were willing to move around some, if he thought he might settle down earlier than average -- but neither of you is saying that; you're both in kind of the typical life stage for your ages. Maybe, you could take this event as a blessing to show you what love can be but don't try to force it? This internship could be a good thing for him, it sounds like. Trying to hold him back from doing it might not be the best thing for him, unfortunately. I'm afraid that forcing it might cause this to end on a negative note. (Already you're feeling tension towards his brother?) If you two still feel very connected, maybe he can find his next internship in your city, but for now I'd let him go with no strings attached on either of you. It will hurt, but I've found these kinds of clean breaks to hurt less than forcing something that isn't going to work.
posted by salvia at 1:00 PM on January 9, 2018 [8 favorites]
Meanwhile you're settled in your town, in a job you like. You'd be happy to have kids now. Many people in their mid 30s are in that same phase.
But this person sounds like he's telling you he's not ready for that now, may not be ready to settle down for ten years, and has concerns about being with someone who is ready for a serious commitment while he's still finding himself:
He wants to have kids one day but not till his 30s as he wants to travel and enjoy his 20s which I totally get. I’ve never been strongly broody but I would have a baby with him if he wanted one – but by the time he is ready I will likely be too old. He talked about lots of ‘what if’s’, that we stay together 2 years, 5 years, 10 years and then it stops working and then I’m nearly 50 and single.
If it's five years from now and he is still in his late 20s, moving around to build his career, not yet ready to settle down, are you going to feel frustrated even if you know that it's typical for his age? (I'm about your age, and I sure would.) Already you sound a tiny bit frustrated at him losing his English, but this kind of false start is very typical when one is 23.
My sense is that tension over your different places in life may be only likely to grow. It might work if you guys were able to meet in the middle -- if you were willing to move around some, if he thought he might settle down earlier than average -- but neither of you is saying that; you're both in kind of the typical life stage for your ages. Maybe, you could take this event as a blessing to show you what love can be but don't try to force it? This internship could be a good thing for him, it sounds like. Trying to hold him back from doing it might not be the best thing for him, unfortunately. I'm afraid that forcing it might cause this to end on a negative note. (Already you're feeling tension towards his brother?) If you two still feel very connected, maybe he can find his next internship in your city, but for now I'd let him go with no strings attached on either of you. It will hurt, but I've found these kinds of clean breaks to hurt less than forcing something that isn't going to work.
posted by salvia at 1:00 PM on January 9, 2018 [8 favorites]
Best answer: In my 20's, I had friends who had wonderful and healthy relationships with people twice their age and I also had friends who were derailed by getting involved with people who had so much more life experience and power and who manipulated situations to fit their (often selfish) priorities. Now that we're all in our 40's, all those relationships look different due to perspective and experience. Some can be looked back on with love and fond memories, and some left the younger partner feeling damaged and resentful. Be the great, expansive, healthy, and thoughtful older partner in this relationship and let him go gently. He's only 23, and even if we assume maximum maturity, your experiential difference as well as bumping up against his family's legitimate concerns could do real damage to him. Let him remember you as the one who was loving, self-sacrificing, and encouraging and, who he'll look back on in his 40's with respect and admiration and not a twinge of resentment.
If you both were 20 years ahead in this timeline (43 and 58), it would be a different situation. But, you met him so early in his life and I think it's best that you let him go clearly and permanently.
What headnsouth commented above is the truth of it. You didn't wait your whole life. You found this connection because you did the work on yourself and are a renewed person now. What you learned in therapy and what you learned in this relationship is ready to guide you toward a partner who will share your life stage, your values, and will love you from a place of experience and knowing themselves. Good luck. You'll find your person.
posted by quince at 1:39 PM on January 9, 2018 [8 favorites]
If you both were 20 years ahead in this timeline (43 and 58), it would be a different situation. But, you met him so early in his life and I think it's best that you let him go clearly and permanently.
What headnsouth commented above is the truth of it. You didn't wait your whole life. You found this connection because you did the work on yourself and are a renewed person now. What you learned in therapy and what you learned in this relationship is ready to guide you toward a partner who will share your life stage, your values, and will love you from a place of experience and knowing themselves. Good luck. You'll find your person.
posted by quince at 1:39 PM on January 9, 2018 [8 favorites]
Best answer: There's no such thing as the "right person at the wrong time" -- if it's the wrong time, it's not the right person.
I was in a very similar situation a few years ago. I met and fell madly in love with a man 12 years my junior -- he was 22 at the time, and a junior at Harvard. We lived and worked together for 2 months and he almost decided to quit school and travel with me, but I encouraged him to finish his degree. We spent every break together, and I moved in with him for the last 4 months of his school year. We lived together well, had an incredibly healthy relationship, and I felt more loved and seen than I ever had before. He is the first person I ever wanted children with. After he graduated, we moved to Berkeley for my work and started making plans to settle down for a little while. He was still figuring out what career path to take, but there are a lot of options in the Bay so we thought it would be fine.
But that summer he got offered a Fullbright scholarship to do research in West Africa for a year, a summer teaching job at a German university, and a temporary position in India with his program advisor. We agonized about it for a month, but eventually I realized if he decided to give up this opportunity he would end up resenting me. And if I went with him and put my life on hold I would end up resenting him.
So we made the decision to end things -- I felt it was my responsibility to initiate and be firm about no contact for a few months so we could both heal. In my heart I know it was the best for both of us but good lord, it was SO HARD.
It took me more than a year to get over it. In many ways I don't think I ever will. But I couldn't live with myself if I had ended up ruining both our lives and ultimately our relationship by staying together. I'm happy in my career and social life in SF now, and he's doing his PhD at Yale (I held out a secret hope he'd be accepted at UC Berkeley, but he wasn't). I'm grateful that he showed me that it's possible to be loved that much.
Maybe one day we'll be in the same place in our lives and things will work the way it didn't, and couldn't, before.
Let him find himself. If it's meant to be, you'll find each other again. But don't wait for him!
There will be other loves. Go out and love some more.
posted by ananci at 2:40 PM on January 9, 2018 [9 favorites]
I was in a very similar situation a few years ago. I met and fell madly in love with a man 12 years my junior -- he was 22 at the time, and a junior at Harvard. We lived and worked together for 2 months and he almost decided to quit school and travel with me, but I encouraged him to finish his degree. We spent every break together, and I moved in with him for the last 4 months of his school year. We lived together well, had an incredibly healthy relationship, and I felt more loved and seen than I ever had before. He is the first person I ever wanted children with. After he graduated, we moved to Berkeley for my work and started making plans to settle down for a little while. He was still figuring out what career path to take, but there are a lot of options in the Bay so we thought it would be fine.
But that summer he got offered a Fullbright scholarship to do research in West Africa for a year, a summer teaching job at a German university, and a temporary position in India with his program advisor. We agonized about it for a month, but eventually I realized if he decided to give up this opportunity he would end up resenting me. And if I went with him and put my life on hold I would end up resenting him.
So we made the decision to end things -- I felt it was my responsibility to initiate and be firm about no contact for a few months so we could both heal. In my heart I know it was the best for both of us but good lord, it was SO HARD.
It took me more than a year to get over it. In many ways I don't think I ever will. But I couldn't live with myself if I had ended up ruining both our lives and ultimately our relationship by staying together. I'm happy in my career and social life in SF now, and he's doing his PhD at Yale (I held out a secret hope he'd be accepted at UC Berkeley, but he wasn't). I'm grateful that he showed me that it's possible to be loved that much.
Maybe one day we'll be in the same place in our lives and things will work the way it didn't, and couldn't, before.
Let him find himself. If it's meant to be, you'll find each other again. But don't wait for him!
There will be other loves. Go out and love some more.
posted by ananci at 2:40 PM on January 9, 2018 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you so much to all of you to that actually read my huge post and contributed your thoughts and views. It's very kind of you all to take time to share your perspective on this and help me think this through.
It's been very hard to hear, but a lot of it resonates. I'm now working up the strength to tell him that I'm going to take the decision out of his hands and that he can't come back here, that he better just take that internship. Nobody has ever been so kind to me ever, and the last thing i want is to f*ck anything up for him by having him come here just to be with me and then be plagued by regret further down the line . Maybe this way he can remember me fondly and not taint the special connection we've shared. I've survived a lot of horrible crap in my life so far and managed never to let it make me bitter so I know I can get through this too. But it hurts me than anything that ever came before because I know this time I'm losing something special.
As a side note, is it likely these feelings we're sharing is just limerance even though we lived every day together for three months and have spoken for hours daily in the last month we've been separated? Feels like love to me but I'm aware my lack of positive relationship experience means I maybe am not aware of what's what.
posted by kudra23 at 3:22 PM on January 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
It's been very hard to hear, but a lot of it resonates. I'm now working up the strength to tell him that I'm going to take the decision out of his hands and that he can't come back here, that he better just take that internship. Nobody has ever been so kind to me ever, and the last thing i want is to f*ck anything up for him by having him come here just to be with me and then be plagued by regret further down the line . Maybe this way he can remember me fondly and not taint the special connection we've shared. I've survived a lot of horrible crap in my life so far and managed never to let it make me bitter so I know I can get through this too. But it hurts me than anything that ever came before because I know this time I'm losing something special.
As a side note, is it likely these feelings we're sharing is just limerance even though we lived every day together for three months and have spoken for hours daily in the last month we've been separated? Feels like love to me but I'm aware my lack of positive relationship experience means I maybe am not aware of what's what.
posted by kudra23 at 3:22 PM on January 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
Taking the decision out of his hands is the most loving response I can image in this situation and one I am sure you won't live to regret.
Re limerence: I've heard this described as the "very much in love" stage, which if all goes well, is followed by "we love each other very much" commitment. To my thinking, you cannot possibly reach that second stage in 3 months—you haven't even lived through the routines of a calendar year. (Yes, I know some people claim they just "knew" from the beginning that their relationship was the real thing. I suspect that the number of failed relationships that began with that "I just know" feeling outnumber the former by orders of magnitude—but people don't tend to talk about them.) Check the limerence page on Wikipedia and decide for yourself if it applies to your relationship.
Btw, there is no reason to be dismissive of a relationship that doesn't make it past this stage. As you know, the feelings are intense and very real.
I'm old enough to know that you are still young—still more of life ahead of you than behind. Best wishes going forward, kudra.
posted by she's not there at 5:18 PM on January 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
Re limerence: I've heard this described as the "very much in love" stage, which if all goes well, is followed by "we love each other very much" commitment. To my thinking, you cannot possibly reach that second stage in 3 months—you haven't even lived through the routines of a calendar year. (Yes, I know some people claim they just "knew" from the beginning that their relationship was the real thing. I suspect that the number of failed relationships that began with that "I just know" feeling outnumber the former by orders of magnitude—but people don't tend to talk about them.) Check the limerence page on Wikipedia and decide for yourself if it applies to your relationship.
Btw, there is no reason to be dismissive of a relationship that doesn't make it past this stage. As you know, the feelings are intense and very real.
I'm old enough to know that you are still young—still more of life ahead of you than behind. Best wishes going forward, kudra.
posted by she's not there at 5:18 PM on January 9, 2018 [5 favorites]
I’ve never been strongly broody but I would have a baby with him if he wanted one
This sounds... scary. Like you are indifferent to having a child but would do so at his request. A child is a huge commitment and I think it would be unfair to them if you kept this indifference. Not to mention that if you broke up you could develop a lot of resentment towards the child.
But I also agree with most of these answers. A 23-year-old is not a good long-term partner. I think about myself at 23 and since then I've changed almost everything about myself from my clothing to my emotional health to my hobbies to my favorite activities to the way I interact with people to my relationships with my family to my career path to the type of partner I want and so on and so forth. In retrospect I'm sure you realize that you - and most people you knew at that age - have changed as well.
All the best. You can find this passion again.
posted by bendy at 8:30 PM on January 9, 2018
This sounds... scary. Like you are indifferent to having a child but would do so at his request. A child is a huge commitment and I think it would be unfair to them if you kept this indifference. Not to mention that if you broke up you could develop a lot of resentment towards the child.
But I also agree with most of these answers. A 23-year-old is not a good long-term partner. I think about myself at 23 and since then I've changed almost everything about myself from my clothing to my emotional health to my hobbies to my favorite activities to the way I interact with people to my relationships with my family to my career path to the type of partner I want and so on and so forth. In retrospect I'm sure you realize that you - and most people you knew at that age - have changed as well.
All the best. You can find this passion again.
posted by bendy at 8:30 PM on January 9, 2018
I initially brought up limerance, so to clarify I don't think limerance and love are mutually exclusive. Not at all.
My point is simply that limerance+love is less rational than love alone. Limerance is often the "madly" in "madly in love" at least in my experience.
posted by French Fry at 5:57 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
My point is simply that limerance+love is less rational than love alone. Limerance is often the "madly" in "madly in love" at least in my experience.
posted by French Fry at 5:57 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
I just want to say that I think you're doing the right thing. That doesn't make it easier, and I'm sorry. But you should be proud of your ability to put someone else's life goals ahead of your own pleasure. You're a good person and you're doing a good thing.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:41 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:41 AM on January 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Limerence doesn't mean your connection is fake, it means you haven't gotten to the place where the bubble of the relationship meets the hard surface of reality & day-to-day real life. Every one of us is made up of more than just the relationship parts, and our "other parts" may ultimately be in conflict with our partner, or our partner's non-relationship aspects may be in conflict with us.
In your situation, you and this person get along great! But you each have other relationships, goals, and unalterable factors that are in conflict. His family disapproves, culture and language issues, different life stages, etc.. A list this long is not survivable. As time went by if you tried, new and deeper conflicts will develop. It's... not a recipe for success.
I suggest you get out and move around as much as possible WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN THE MIX. So, spin class or yoga would be ideal. Sound baths are a big deal in my city right now. Hiking or cycling groups. Group tours of your local botanical garden, lectures series at museums or libraries, that sort of thing. Get moving and be around other people, you don't have to make friends, just don't be alone.
Hope that helps.
posted by jbenben at 10:03 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
In your situation, you and this person get along great! But you each have other relationships, goals, and unalterable factors that are in conflict. His family disapproves, culture and language issues, different life stages, etc.. A list this long is not survivable. As time went by if you tried, new and deeper conflicts will develop. It's... not a recipe for success.
I suggest you get out and move around as much as possible WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN THE MIX. So, spin class or yoga would be ideal. Sound baths are a big deal in my city right now. Hiking or cycling groups. Group tours of your local botanical garden, lectures series at museums or libraries, that sort of thing. Get moving and be around other people, you don't have to make friends, just don't be alone.
Hope that helps.
posted by jbenben at 10:03 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Update: so last night on Skype I told him he couldn't come back here and that he had better take the internship. He was quiet and thoughtful, wanted to know my reasons etc. We talked it over and I had many of the comments on this thread in mind. It was a hard conversation and I didn't sleep last night for it but the upshot is that he accepted it and will be starting at the placement on Monday.
Today we spoke more and he has asked me to consider keeping our commitment and to visit him in the city of his internship for his birthday at the end of this month. He still intends to apply for masters at universities in my city for September, continue to work on his professional English and come back sooner if he doesn't like the internship.. As well as a promise of monthly visits if he does. I know it goes against the grain of all the good advice I've received here but I'm finding it hard to disagree with this plan. I've told him I will come visit him for his birthday anyway and I suppose we'll take it from there. I'm not dismissing all the sterling advice I've gratefully received here, it's something we will have to talk over a lot more and I am still mulling this over in my mind.
posted by kudra23 at 11:39 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Today we spoke more and he has asked me to consider keeping our commitment and to visit him in the city of his internship for his birthday at the end of this month. He still intends to apply for masters at universities in my city for September, continue to work on his professional English and come back sooner if he doesn't like the internship.. As well as a promise of monthly visits if he does. I know it goes against the grain of all the good advice I've received here but I'm finding it hard to disagree with this plan. I've told him I will come visit him for his birthday anyway and I suppose we'll take it from there. I'm not dismissing all the sterling advice I've gratefully received here, it's something we will have to talk over a lot more and I am still mulling this over in my mind.
posted by kudra23 at 11:39 AM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Hmm. On the one hand, I think respecting his desires while encouraging him to do what's best for him makes sense. Being older, you don't want to overplay the "I know what's best for you" card.
On the other, DO you want to wait 9 months to live in the same city together again? I don't know that I'd want to.
Either way, I'd definitely continue to listen to your own feelings. At a certain point, you may find yourself thinking "you said you couldn't make a commitment for years and years, and I'm not sure I can live with that."
But if things are still feeling really good, it doesn't seem harmful to see where they go now that you've made clear that you really want him to make the best decisions for himself and not sacrifice his future for the relationship.
posted by salvia at 10:35 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
On the other, DO you want to wait 9 months to live in the same city together again? I don't know that I'd want to.
Either way, I'd definitely continue to listen to your own feelings. At a certain point, you may find yourself thinking "you said you couldn't make a commitment for years and years, and I'm not sure I can live with that."
But if things are still feeling really good, it doesn't seem harmful to see where they go now that you've made clear that you really want him to make the best decisions for himself and not sacrifice his future for the relationship.
posted by salvia at 10:35 PM on January 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Just happened to find this thread and thought I'd drop my two cents. I think you are only prolonging the inevitable. And it will hurt more later. I think you know that. I would be very wary of avoiding a lot of pain now in exchange for more pain later. So sorry you're going through this. But there's more cool dudes out there. ;)
posted by Glinn at 2:32 PM on January 31, 2018
posted by Glinn at 2:32 PM on January 31, 2018
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No, love is great, and crazy and weird but wanting to keep it does not make you a crazy person.
There do seem to be some real deal breaker issues in here, the kids issue especially, do you want to be doing IVF/surrogate/adopting when you're 48? Is that the kind of thing you should rationally be considering after 6 months?
6 months, 3 of them long distance means this is very much still in limerence, which can be especially potent if you've never been in it before.
Why not give it another 6-10 months regardless of long distance or close and decide then?
When you two and not super-amazing hormones are making most of the decisions.
posted by French Fry at 8:58 AM on January 9, 2018 [22 favorites]