Online dating, I ask him for coffee, he agrees, then brings up psychosis

January 8, 2018 1:58 PM

I am in a moral quandary about a chap that I've exchanged a couple of messages with on OkCupid. He messaged first, I asked him if he fancied grabbing a coffee but didn't hear back for weeks so wrote him off. He finally replied, citing being "a mess" for the delay, asked me out. I replied, suggesting to meet next week, asked what "a mess" meant. He just came back to say that "a mess" = psychosis. My already low interest levels have plummeted. How can I back out as gently as possible?

So I feel terrible about even asking this question, in case someone feels stigmatised. Apologies. I would like to state that I would have no problem dating someone with a stable, treated mental illness, and have done previously - I just feel like this person is seemingly only a few days out from a psychotic episode and therefore perhaps isn't in a place to be dating. I no longer want to meet up with him. What to do?

To give some background, this chap messaged me first, just before Christmas with a charming chatty message. I'd seen his profile before and hadn't bothered tapping him up as it was quite short, sweet though not particularly thrilling, and he only had one out-of-focus selfie.

I liked his message and, assuming he just wasn't into primping up his profile, replied last week, adding an invitation to go for coffee perhaps, sometime this week.

He didn't reply until yesterday, writing that he was sorry that he hadn't been in touch sooner, but that, cryptically, he'd been "a mess" and asked me out for Thursday this week.

I'm annoyed at myself for replying too quickly, texting that we could instead meet up next week as Thursday is busy, before finally getting round to asking what "a mess" meant.

This was his reply: "Dear doornoise, you're welcome. Next week is fine. I've been in psychosis for a while. That's what 'a mess' means. Fragile, that's what it means and a little scared; I suspect you're very lovely. [Random question about my profile] [His name]"

I am completely at a loss as to how to react to this. I think it's great that he shared the information with me and like I said before, I have no problem dating someone who experiences mental health issues if they are in treatment and stable, but I feel really uncomfortable with this conversation. My interest level was already pretty meh and now I feel like I have no desire to meet up at all.

What would you do? I obviously don't want to make the dude feel worse, yet I know that it's inevitable that he's going to feel stigmatised. Help?

posted by doornoise to Human Relations (40 answers total)

I would just not respond. He'll assume why, and really that's fine. It's kind of a party foul to tell someone you've been in psychosis right before the first time you meet them. Good for him for being honest and up front, but it really is okay for you to just disengage.

The dating world is fraught with enough danger and uncertainty for women. You certainly don't need to get coffee with a strange man who is experiencing mental instability, and you don't need to keep a line of contact open with him, either.

Just archive the message and walk away.
posted by phunniemee at 2:06 PM on January 8, 2018 [36 favorites]

This is really tough! I guess I would wait a couple of days and then say something like... "Hey, I was looking forward to meeting up but I've realized I'm not really in a place for dating right now after all. Good luck with everything." It's a lie, but maybe one that will prompt him to think seriously about whether or not he is in a place for dating.

And I don't think you should feel guilty about this at all. First, there's nothing at all wrong with preferring to date people who are mentally well or whose mental health issues are under control (I say this as someone with fairly serious anxiety myself). Second, the tone of his message is really unappealing and I would probably be turned off even if the content wasn't psychosis-related. Setting aside the psychosis, he sounds awkward and socially inexperienced.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 2:07 PM on January 8, 2018 [5 favorites]

Best answer: "It sounds like you've had a lot going on, so I don't think it's a good time to meet up. Good luck out there!" Then, assuming you don't want to hear from him in the future, block his profile.
posted by metasarah at 2:08 PM on January 8, 2018 [90 favorites]

Best answer: A couple of things ping my hmm...-meter. Dropping a "been a mess" teaser instead of just telling you, so that you have to ask. Then another teaser with "for a while." What does that mean? And finally, not telling you it's being treated or under control or happens with X frequency or anything else, which of course you'd want to know.

Mental health concerns or not, this guy is going to make you do all the work. You already are.
posted by headnsouth at 2:10 PM on January 8, 2018 [72 favorites]

There is some mislabelling going on here. "Psychosis" does not mean "fragile and a little scared" (God knows a lot of us are that), it means "a mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that indicate impaired contact with reality." So I see two possibilities, both of them bad:

1. The guy really is psychotic. You should have nothing to do with him. Being on a dating site is not an invitation to casual meetings with people in dire mental circumstances.
2. The guy doesn't really know what psychotic means, but is trying to make himself interesting by appearing to be crazy. Unless you find this gambit charming, I still wouldn't have anything to do with him.

If you think he really is psychotic, I agree with those who say you should immediately cease contact and ban him. But if you feel (as I do) that it's more the second case, you should be direct and say you hope he finds his way to a better place but psychosis was not what you signed up for. If you do that, I bet he will back-pedal, but you should be firm.
posted by ubiquity at 2:17 PM on January 8, 2018 [10 favorites]

Ghost and block. You don't know him or owe him anything. He has violated the social contract with this disclosure this early.
posted by edbles at 2:19 PM on January 8, 2018 [8 favorites]

he is being vulenable with you, had an episode, took a break, and retuirned, he seems ready to date again. You are stigmatizing him, and punishing him for his transparency.
posted by PinkMoose at 2:21 PM on January 8, 2018 [8 favorites]

Best answer: This is a case where ghosting is okay. There's no established relationship, no back-and-forth real-life sharing. (With the important bit being "real life".) As of yet, you still don't know who this person really is.

Ghost and block. If you had a better idea who he was in reality, I might go with the other suggestions to say no thanks, but having seen what people do who drop this sort of thing out of nowhere and outside any context that would allow you to get a feeling for what's truly going on, ghosting is perfectly fine.

Having experienced similar myself: beware the surprise real-life-context-free drop of major vulnerability that's a trap to guilt you into a response and question yourself. There is no real-life context here. I repeat: there is no real-life context here. You're not stigmatizing; you have no idea what's true other than this came out of nowhere, very early on, with someone you do not know in real life, who also does not know you in real life.
posted by fraula at 2:27 PM on January 8, 2018 [48 favorites]

You don't owe anyone a date you don't want to go on, even if they have been transparent and are in a good place to date. (FWIW, I don't think this dude has been or is either, particularly, judging from these brief interactions; true transparency would have been him writing back and being upfront with you rather than making you do all the work to draw the story out of him; you're already doing emotional labor and you haven't even actually seen his face.)

Don't feel guilty about not going out with a dude you're not interested in, for whatever reason. Doing so wastes both of your time. Dating someone because you feel bad about NOT dating them isn't the way functional adult partnerships work, and if you're ALREADY not into it and you haven't even met in person? Don't drag it out! Metasarah's script seems right to me!
posted by Countess Sandwich at 2:28 PM on January 8, 2018 [21 favorites]

"You know, on reflection, I'm just not that into you. Good luck out there."
posted by Capri at 2:31 PM on January 8, 2018

Ghost, for sure. Even if he's out of whatever was going on, he's still using the age-old tactic of trying to casually drop hints about his tortured soul to pull you in and get you to caretake. Someone who has it together would be able to share that they are handling their MH issue and are stable. I have a MH condition or three and believe in not stigmatizing folks, but the hinting is the real turn-off here.
posted by fairlynearlyready at 2:41 PM on January 8, 2018 [9 favorites]

Best answer: I might say,

"Well I appreciate the frankness and I hope you're feeling ok these days! As it happens, I have some stuff happening in my own life at the moment that makes me think it's actually not a good time for us to meet up. I wish you all the best!" Then block him.

I mean... it's true, even though the "thing happening in your life" is just "feeling red flag feelings".

And for what it's worth, I think you're making the right choice. People with mental health issues deserve love. But they don't deserve strangers risking their safety to venture into possibly erratic / sexually charged situations without properly informed consent. He's bringing up potentially unsafe diagnoses in jokey, coy ways without making any effort to help you feel safe, which to me says he is quite clearly signalling that he's not ready at this time to do his half of the work to make a relationship work.

This is very different than a person saying something like, "Full disclosure, I have bipolar and last month I had stomach flu and was unable to keep down a few doses of medication. That caused a bit of a rough week, but I'm back on the meds and stable now for the past month, as I have been for years... it's not something that really affects my daily life most of the time" or whatever.
This guy is... not doing anything reassuring like that. He's listing his problems in a sort of playful, flirtatious way, almost as if he thinks you'll be drawn in by the mystery... and that's unsettling when coupled with a potentially serious diagnosis like psychosis. I'd stay away too.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 2:41 PM on January 8, 2018 [81 favorites]

Best answer: he is being vulenable with you, had an episode, took a break, and retuirned, he seems ready to date again. You are stigmatizing him, and punishing him for his transparency.

Don't feel guilty for not wanting to date someone who has psychosis and who has episodes and disappears. You're not stigmatizing him OR punishing him. He isn't ready to date, and you know why? He clearly doesn't have his mental health fully under control and figured out. If he did, he wouldn't be disclosing it this way or behaving this way. It's OK to not want to date someone for any reason. You do not owe him anything for being "vulnerable". I say this as someone with serious health issues.

Take care and don't feel guilty.
posted by sockermom at 2:45 PM on January 8, 2018 [46 favorites]

It's totally reasonable to focus on meeting people who are at a solid, stable place in their lives. Dating someone with signed divorce papers is very different than dating someone 2 weeks out of a breakup. Dating someone who takes insulin for their diabetes every day is very different than dating someone who was just hospitalized for a diabetic coma. Dating someone who has been in AA for many years is different from dating someone who just fell off the wagon.

I think it's fine to tell him what you've told us -- something along the lines of "I'm sorry to hear you're going through a rough time. I have no problem dating people with stable, treated mental illnesses and have done so in the past, but it sounds like you're not there right now, so unfortunately I'll have to cancel our date as I need to focus on meeting people who are in a good place to start a new relationship. You seem like a cool person, I wish you the best in your recovery."
posted by mrmurbles at 2:47 PM on January 8, 2018 [11 favorites]

Just do not reply, and hope he can't track you down. You do not know him, there is no relationship to lose at this point, and what he wrote to you does not bode well. Someone in touch with reality would not use the word" psychosis" with a stranger he hopes to meet.
posted by mermayd at 2:48 PM on January 8, 2018 [1 favorite]

The tone of his message is really crappy. Even if his “mess” was a broken leg or whatever, I’d be really put off by having to extract the story. It’s not about the broken leg (or psychosis), it’d be more about the way he presented the scenario, without offering any real detail/good worthwhile information. His explanation is still vague and would still require you to do (all) the work for more explanation and follow-up. And it’d be for that reason that I’d politely decline.
posted by Sassyfras at 2:48 PM on January 8, 2018 [3 favorites]

Oh, my God!

You have no obligation to meet anyone, anytime, for any reason.

You do absolutely have the responsibility to keep yourself safe.

You do, arguably, have the responsibility not to waste anyone's time.

Ghosting is fine; otherwise a polite script is fine. But don't go out with him because someone on the Internet thinks that you have an obligation not to "stigmatize" a stranger, that is more important than your own comfort, safety, and preference.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:50 PM on January 8, 2018 [21 favorites]

excusing your week of radio silence to a person you barely know by calling yourself a fragile, scared mess who's struggling with psychosis is, true or not, indicative of not having a real super good sense of appropriate boundaries. make like a class five full roaming vapor and ghost this dude with zero regrets or remorse.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:51 PM on January 8, 2018 [27 favorites]

Let's not let the "ghosting" definition creep here - you have to meet someone in order to "ghost" them. You don't have any obligation to a complete stranger you have only exchanged a few messages on the internet with. Just stop responding.
posted by bradbane at 2:55 PM on January 8, 2018 [11 favorites]

Best answer: I'm not sure that you get a significant increase in safety from ghosting vs. "I'm sorry, but I don't think this is going to work" and blocking, and hence I vote for the latter. He does sound like a mess, but quite possibly a straightforward one as opposed to a malicious one, and since you've already started to make a plan with him re: next week, I think it's more appropriate to let him know it's off rather than leave him hanging. You have every right to prioritize your safety in general and to not think yourself in a position to date someone with apparently poorly-controlled mental illness in specific, but lacking some threat or inappropriateness by him, a modest kindness seems low-risk.
posted by praemunire at 3:09 PM on January 8, 2018 [25 favorites]

I have depression that sometimes makes me a mess. And sometimes, especially when I was younger, I overshare(d) on a first or second date, not on purpose, but, you know. So if you had ever seen this guy in person, I would encourage you to meet up one more time just because we're all human. But you haven't ever seen him in person! So I would just politely decline to meet up and then move on.
posted by 8603 at 3:27 PM on January 8, 2018 [2 favorites]

"Thank you for being so honest with me about your situation. It sounds like our timing is off so I am going to pass on the date. I wish you all the best."
posted by pintapicasso at 4:07 PM on January 8, 2018 [23 favorites]

Look, we tend to vilify people for ghosting - and we all either have done it or have had it done to us. There's a good chance this guy is being forthcoming with genuine intention, so recommending that you ghost someone who potentially just came out of a very trying life experience is just... not cool. That's not to say you need to have anything to do with him beyond a brief message letting him know that you don't think things would work out for you two.

Be kind.
posted by Everydayville at 4:25 PM on January 8, 2018 [11 favorites]

There's a good chance this guy is being forthcoming with genuine intention, so recommending that you ghost someone who potentially just came out of a very trying life experience is just... not cool

PREACH. Ghosting is unbelievably unkind under any circumstances — doing it to someone who is fragile is unconscionable. Politely explain that you aren’t interested and then move on. Holy assonance batman.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 4:33 PM on January 8, 2018 [15 favorites]

As someone who's been in the "I want to try dating oops I'm having a mental health crisis" place, I want to both endorse metasarah's specific answer and the general message that you are under no obligation whatsoever to sign up for someone else's ride, of whatever level of intensity.
posted by PMdixon at 4:39 PM on January 8, 2018 [7 favorites]

Not responding isn't ghosting. You actually have to have a relationship with someone to ghost on them, and exchanging a couple of messages on a dating app isn't a relationship. Nor is it punishing someone to decide that you don't want to go out with them, for any reason.

The kindest thing to do in this situation is to write back using metasarah's script up at the top, and then block him.
posted by palomar at 4:44 PM on January 8, 2018 [4 favorites]

As a person who’s had serious mental health issues, I have to say I’d find “you seem to have lot going on” and “good luck” types of messages waaaay worse than no response. You don’t need to address his condition at all, as he imposed that on you and it’s not really something you’re equipped to comment on.

If you feel cruel not responding to a stranger— a stranger who sent you a pretty inappropriate response—you could say something really generic like you’re not interested. It’s never mean to say no to a date even though it feels mean to be blunt. (Note he had no problem being blunt.)

I truly don’t think it’s mean to cease contact with a stranger either if you really don’t want to be in contact and there is nothing kind or productive to say, or you feel at all creeped out or unsafe, but I accept I’m in the minority on that.
posted by kapers at 5:10 PM on January 8, 2018 [6 favorites]

I like metasarah's response. It seems like a kindness to make it clear so the guy is not left hanging. If you don't want to reference what he said to you, you could just say something along the lines of "upon reflection, I don't think this is the right time to pursue this/we're not a match. Good luck in your search." Then block and don't respond to anything further. You don't owe a stranger any more than that.
posted by rpfields at 5:26 PM on January 8, 2018 [1 favorite]

"Something has come up, so I won't be able to get together next week. Take care."

The something that has come up is that you don't want to meet with him, but he doesn't need to know that.
posted by dancing_angel at 5:43 PM on January 8, 2018 [2 favorites]

I agree with cancelling, and also with letting him know rather than just disappearing. I do want to point out that Metasarah's script has you saying that the choice is for his benefit (since he has a lot going on), not yours. What's good for him is not really your call, and this also leaves him room to argue if he's so inclined ("no, really, I can handle it.")
posted by 2 cats in the yard at 5:55 PM on January 8, 2018 [5 favorites]

Best answer: Please pay no heed anyone who tries to guilt-trip you into obliging him, or obliging anyone else whose actions or words make you feel uneasy. “But you haaaaaave to accept his explanation/keep the date/assume he’s a nice guy/provide a watertight explanation for losing interest/keep engaging out of pity/give him a fair chance” is manipulative. It gets used on people in relationships all the time, and even then it’s unconscionable, but you don’t actually know this guy and you do not owe him any further emotional labour.

It is perhaps more sporting to say “On second thought, no thanks” than to go silent on him (which, mind, he already kind of did to you!), but you are not responsible for his mental health. Neither you nor anyone here could reliably predict which method of rejection a stranger will handle best, so just trust your gut. If blocking feels safe, block. If letting him down easy feels safe, do that.

Do not humour any “nah really I’m fine much better now please date me” follow-ups. You have already lost interest, and that is Enough.
posted by armeowda at 6:51 PM on January 8, 2018 [17 favorites]

You say your interest level was low even before he made his comment about having been a mess. What would you say when canceling any date with anyone you had little interest in? Say that.

As someone with chronic depression, I say you have absolutely no obligation to date or stay with a person who has mental problems.
posted by wryly at 7:16 PM on January 8, 2018 [2 favorites]

Best answer: I am a psych nurse. I am not this guy’s psych nurse.

I've been in psychosis for a while. That's what 'a mess' means. Fragile, that's what it means and a little scared; I suspect you're very lovely.

This is several red flags bundled up together. This sounds to me like he isn’t seeking or following through with treatment for whatever his underlying condition is. He’s content to be psychotic, to slowly roll out that information as he makes you pull it from him.

Run, don’t walk. Tell him the timing isn’t right, because it isn’t. Not for you and not for him.

Psychotic doesn’t mean fragile and scared. Psychotic menas not relating to reality in the same way other people might. If that has resulted in pair for him in the past, it is not on you to heal him.
posted by RainyJay at 8:40 PM on January 8, 2018 [16 favorites]

I can't believe anyone would dare to guilt trip you about this when we all repeat over and over how important consent is! You don't have to do ANYTHING you don't want to do with ANYONE for ANY reason. Consider yourself an at-will dater if it helps--no one is under contract with you! I would just block him and move on. I have dated men like this and it was nonstop emotional manipulation. When people tell you who they are, believe them..and run!
posted by masquesoporfavor at 12:17 AM on January 9, 2018 [16 favorites]

Someone here once posted that the entire point of online dating is that women can discontinue contact with men without reason or explanation without risking their safety. They were right.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 12:58 AM on January 9, 2018 [9 favorites]

Someone who labels himself psychotic and a mess is not in a position to date. She didn't stigmatise him, he did that all by himself. If he indeed isn't psychotic and just used that to make the OP do the emotional labour of drawing him out, and to appear cool, he still shouldn't be dating. Not only is this person trying to manipulate you into dating him for pity reasons, other posters here are too! Unbelievable. She's already stated that she's uncomfortable and not interested, but no, no, you owe him! She doesn't owe an emotionally manipulative stranger anything, her first obligation is to herself.
posted by Jubey at 1:35 AM on January 9, 2018 [13 favorites]

I think a short reply saying that you don't feel a spark or whatever might be the best way to go. I am not sure about saying "I don't think you're in the right place for dating" because although this is probably true, it's not up to you to decide whether he is ready, only whether you want to be part of it. I also think blocking him is a bit harsh (unless of course he starts harassing you after you reject him) as to me blocking gives out a "you're a bad person and I hate you" message. You aren't obliged to say anything, but it's kinder not to leave him hanging and it sounds like he's had a hard time already.
posted by intensitymultiply at 4:55 AM on January 9, 2018 [1 favorite]

I don’t know anything about psychosis, but I know a lot about abusive men.

They are looking for empathetic, selfless people who they can exploit and manipulate into putting them first at every turn. Telling a tale of woe very early in a relationship is a common tactic abusers use to find out if their target fits the bill.

Your concern for this stranger’s well-being shows that you are just the sort of kind, nurturing person an abuser would be looking for, and I think you should block him without comment.

But even if his story is true and he’s a wonderful guy, it’s not fair that he’s put this burden on you. It demonstrates a massive lack of judgement and boundaries, as well as certain amount of entitlement- and whether that’s induced by mental illness or not seems irrelevant to me.
posted by Dwardles at 9:49 AM on January 9, 2018 [14 favorites]

I would ghost personally.

Or, make up an excuse. Anything really. Tell him your situation has changed and you’re not able to date right now.

No worries. On to the next.
posted by christiehawk at 7:54 PM on January 9, 2018 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: For anyone who reads this and wonders how it all went down, I wrote him a short note along the lines of metasarah's script and then immediately blocked him on the site. Thank you all for the useful advice.
posted by doornoise at 2:46 PM on November 30, 2018 [6 favorites]