Have you known someone who has successfully managed ASPD?
October 20, 2017 3:11 AM   Subscribe

I just found out my boyfriend of a year has antisocial personality disorder, which to be honest, I find terrifying. Does anyone have stories of long-term relationships with someone with the disorder (not necessarily romantic - friends and family members count too) that did not end poorly?

It's obviously very easy to find the bad in the situation, but I'm interested in more nuanced accounts of being close to someone, who was able to manage the disorder (with or without outside treatment). If you have ever received this diagnosis yourself, I would be interested in hearing from you too. For context, I'm not completely unfamiliar with personality disorders - my sister has Borderline Personality Disorder. This has been a rough experience, but she is still part of my life, and things are not always bad. I've mostly had to learn how to manage my expectations appropriately.
posted by anonymous to Human Relations (15 answers total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
Given that you've known this guy for a year already, you probably know how well he's managing his condition. If he's the perfect boyfriend, but he just happens to have this diagnosis, then he's managing it pretty well and you have your answer. If you already had a bunch of red flags, and now you found out about the diagnosis and it looks like it could be the root cause, then again, you have your answer.

For any value of x, if you can say "my boyfriend has x and I find it terrifying", then you really don't need to second-guess your own instinct, no matter how well other people might mitigate x. With a family member like your sister, there's maybe more of a thing about managing your expectations - because she's still your sister after all. But with a boyfriend of one year, that doesn't apply. You get to choose, and you have the right to have your expectations met without having to manage them. Terrifying is not a good feature to have in your SO.
posted by rd45 at 3:32 AM on October 20, 2017 [13 favorites]


What has he done to get him this diagnoses? How does he treat you and others? How old is he? Does he have a criminal history? Is he cruel to animals, manipulative, dishonest, lacking in empathy? Do you find him terrifying,, not just the diagnosis? You need to answer these questions for yourself, not for others. My limited understanding of this disorder is that it is very hard to treat and often does not get better. If he is very young and this is the result of some trouble he got into, maybe the diagnosis is too severe. If he is older and this came up recently, he may not be a good choice as a partner.
posted by mermayd at 4:41 AM on October 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


My absentee father more than likely has ASPD and my brother was diagnosed with this as a teenager. My bro's relationships tend to be radiantly loving...for about a year or two, then he kind of gets bored with things and starts picking fights, or cheating, or ripping them off. Like clockwork. A year is not a promise of future good behavior. Depending on how old you both are, you may well still be in the new and exciting part of your relationship.

How did you find out? Did he tell you, or did someone else "warn" you about him? If it's the former, you can probably talk to him about how this diagnosis was made, what he does to manage it, that kind of thing. If it was the latter, though, especially if it was someone close to him, I'd say be very, very certain you want to take on the challenge that is loving someone with ASPD.

I think the thing here is to be very wary of how your boyfriend *uses* this diagnosis. Having a disorder doesn't give him permission to treat you poorly or to act out. He's still responsible for his behavior like any other adult. It's possible that he is trying to be a better person, and not let his ASPD get between the two of you, and may be honest with you about how that affects your relationship without making it a burden you have to bear. But I gotta be honest with you, in my fairly limited experience you're going to be shifting that boundary back over and over again as that burden shifts from him to you - why aren't *you* being understanding about *his* needs, rather than him addressing and trying to improve how he treats you. As far as treatment goes, he's got to want to be treated. My brother thinks he's doing just fine, and even in his darker moments when he's been aware that there's something wrong with his behaviour he's never been willing to seek treatment. I hope your partner is better.

Your boyfriend is not my brother. I can only speak from having spent thirty plus years around someone with this issue. Watch your red flags like crazy. Bro is a master of the gaslight, for example, and twisting thing that are his fault so they become your fault, to varying degrees of success. He's also totally unable to understand why, for example, if you had a fight about something, that you then twenty minutes later are not totally over it and ready to be buddies again - but he's allowed to nurse a grudge forever. He's also got a fairly flexible attitude to the truth.

I know this is likely not what you wanted to hear. I'm sorry I don't have a better story to tell you. With any luck you can take what I've learned and use it to make a better story for yourself, no matter how you decide to respond to this. You're welcome to message me if you have any questions or you want clarification on anything.
posted by Jilder at 5:18 AM on October 20, 2017 [18 favorites]


It's only been a year. You're a frog boiling in water if there have been red flags you are processing and this diagnosis puts a label on what you've already experienced.

This is not a mindset you want to get too deeply familiar with, it REALLY fucks with the way you'll experience other humans decades into the future. There are better partners and partner experiences out there in life, do not choose this for yourself.

I can tell you via personal experience and effort that you can love this person very deeply, and it will never ever cure them. Your love for them will victimize you, damage you, in so many many ways. Slowly the joy in life and your ability to fully trust others will become extinguished. You'll remember that life once felt more vibrant, but you will never really get that feeling back.

Run.
posted by jbenben at 5:33 AM on October 20, 2017 [24 favorites]


Just a note that there's not actually much in the way of treatment for Antisocial Personality Disorder (unlike BPD, for example), at least right now. This is not a "See any random therapist" situation; it would require a highly trained specialist with expertise in treating this particular condition.
posted by lazuli at 6:04 AM on October 20, 2017 [7 favorites]


This is not ASPD specific, but general advice for any personality or mood disorder when you're in a relationship: You cannot stay in a relationship for the promise of future management of the disorder at a level better than you have seen from that person previously, and you have to be aware that there will probably be periods where it'll be worse than you've seen so far.

It broke my heart to do it, but I had to break off a relationship that seemed really promising not long ago because my ex's bipolar disorder was threatening to take me down with her. You have to engage in a relationship with the person who is currently there, not the hypothetical person you think might be there if this other party gets better. That's the thing about the managing expectations bit. It's really possible to have a friend or family member who has serious issues but set up appropriate boundaries so that those issues don't touch you. The same is not true of someone with whom you expect to eventually share a home, finances, and potentially children.

If you meet someone who has a mental health condition and you're perfectly capable of being in a relationship with them the way they currently are, whether well-managed or not, that's a different story. But the fact that he might be capable of getting better doesn't mean he will, and you're never going to have a single ounce of control over that. You have to look at your existing evidence of what he's capable of, as far as relationships go, and then filter that through the fact that this first year should really be the point where everything is easiest. Don't stay in a relationship if the only scenario where you're happy is the absolute best case.
posted by Sequence at 6:11 AM on October 20, 2017 [33 favorites]


Oh, no. No way. What your sister has is such a different issue. If you know the personality disorders, you know there is one that involves being extremely shy, there is one that involves being extremely vain, etcetera. They don't all involve the same level of difficulty or the same types of problems. What your boyfriend has essentially means that he is abusive on purpose. That's a huge problem in any relationship. That's not a stigma, there are no other symptoms of the disorder. Consider that someone must have assessed him for what your sister has and decided, nope.
posted by karmachameleon at 9:22 AM on October 20, 2017 [6 favorites]


I would find that it took him a year to disclose this to you very concerning. I understand it's a feared condition and maybe you're not going to bring it up on the first date, but a person who respects your agency and the legitimate concerns anyone would have about the disorder would've told you much sooner, so that you could make this decision before getting too enmeshed.

If you search here on the blue there was a FPP relatively recently about management of people with I think ASPD and frankly even the "success" stories were...nothing you'd want your life to resemble.
posted by praemunire at 10:22 AM on October 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


If you haven't already, read Stop Walking on Eggshells. It's great for dealing with anybody's behavior issues. Antisocial personality disorder is often labeled sociopathy, in which a person has a poor understanding of, or respect for, right and wrong. I can't see a healthy relationship being possible. But I have also seen poor diagnostic skill among mental health care providers. If it's oppositional/ defiant, that's different and is more likely to be responsive to therapy. In any case, do not accept bad behavior, period. Even the slightest hint of violence is unacceptable in anyone with anger issues. Well, anyone, really. Pay a lot more attention to his behavior; if he is consistently good to you, is not angry, violent, threatening, mean, then he may not have Antisocial Personality Behavior.

You have a sister with Borderline Personality Behavior. You may be from a family with other mental health challenges, so a boyfriend who is really difficult may feel normal. It's not. People who have untreated mental health challenges can suck the joy out of life. Careening from crisis to crisis is no way to live. It took me time to learn to manage my own emotional volatility, and to learn to minimize time with people who don't manage their behavior.
posted by theora55 at 10:25 AM on October 20, 2017 [4 favorites]


If you haven't already, read Stop Walking on Eggshells. It's great for dealing with anybody's behavior issues.

No. Nope, it's not. Not anyone's behavior issues. I doubt the person who wrote it, even, would agree with that assessment. I'm saying this for you, OP. Stop Walking on Eggshells is a folksy, hyperbolic, and somewhat prejudiced (though not terrible) self help book for loved ones of people with Borderline Personality Disorder. That is not the situation you are asking for help with.

Pay a lot more attention to his behavior; if he is consistently good to you, is not angry, violent, threatening, mean, then he may not have Antisocial Personality Behavior.

Also such a dangerous thing to tell someone in this situation. Why? Because I'm taking the OP at her word that this person was DIAGNOSED with ASPD. This means someone of the psychological profession really ventured to diagnose her boyfriend a psychopath. Such an event in someone's life doesn't occur without significant damage - hurting a pet, or deliberately hurting another human being. It takes a breach from norms - specifically in terms of violence -, for ASPD to be considered as a diagnosis. I think we can all agree that even if best case scenario the boyfriend doesn't actually have this personality disorder, the chance that THIS relationship will be free of harm to the OP is ZERO.
posted by karmachameleon at 11:35 AM on October 20, 2017 [16 favorites]


Antisocial personality disorder is, by definition, characterized by a long term pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others. Irresponsibility is a core characteristic of this disorder. Attachments and emotional bonds tend to be weak- relationships are usually about getting something out of someone else. Sorry, I don't think a relationship with a person like this is likely to end well.
posted by Anne Neville at 5:53 PM on October 20, 2017 [2 favorites]


There is a writer on Quora with a (professional) ASPD diagnosis on Quora who writes about his experience with the condition and how it impacts his life and relationships:
Joshua Smith
posted by 4rtemis at 6:05 PM on October 20, 2017 [1 favorite]


Pay a lot more attention to his behavior; if he is consistently good to you, is not angry, violent, threatening, mean, then he may not have Antisocial Personality Behavior.

He's been with you for only a year and likely on his best behavior. Pay more attention to whether he's consistently good to everyone who is not you. Stories about his past behavior, how he talks about people he's upset with now, the stereotypical "Does he treat the waiter well?" Especially how he is with people who disappoint him or don't/can't do what he wants. One of the hallmarks of people with Antisocial Personality Disorder is their ability to charm people when they want to. His being nice to you is not an indication that the diagnosis is wrong. (I echo everyone else, however, in being cautious about where the diagnosis is coming from, or how "official" it is.)
posted by lazuli at 7:22 PM on October 20, 2017 [5 favorites]


Something to keep in mind: the psychiatric diagnosis process is hardly foolproof. E.g., a couple of years ago my adult daughter was diagnosed with BPD, Bipolar, PTSD, and anxiety disorder. She was hospitalized 5 times over 4 months, during which she was prescribed 4 different anti-psychotics and 3 different benzos—and she just kept getting worse.

In retrospect, all of her initial symptoms could be explained by the Adderall and Xanax prescriptions she had been taking for a few months. The anti-psychotic treatments sent her into a tailspin. Once she stopped the meds, her symptoms disappeared in a matter of weeks.

In short, before you make any decisions, get a second (at the very least) opinion re the diagnosis.
posted by she's not there at 1:32 AM on October 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


his means someone of the psychological profession really ventured to diagnose her boyfriend a psychopath. Such an event in someone's life doesn't occur without significant damage - hurting a pet, or deliberately hurting another human being.

A. this is frankly untrue, even positing an unrealistically conscientious diagnostician. for any checklist diagnosis, the patient doesn't have to exhibit every one of the potential signs, sometimes not even most of them. but:

B. OP, if your boyfriend is an animal torturer or an abuser, the precise nature of his diagnosis ought to be the last thing on your mind; you should be calling domestic violence shelters and perhaps the cops as well. If he is not doing things like that but is a petty criminal or a habitual liar, you should not make special allowances for these things based on some idea of a mental disability. His diagnosis is relevant to his treatment plan, if he is seeking treatment for something, but you should not be treating him.

ASPD is above all and beyond all else a description, based on conversation and observation. Psychiatric language has a mystique among lay people that makes its terms of art and its favored adjectives seem more meaningful than your own: they are not. You have had ample opportunity to observe him and talk to him, and antisocial people are not wizards and mostly not geniuses -- like narcissists, they are not usually as good at projecting a false normal personality as they think they are. If something just always felt a little off in a way you couldn't define, that'll be why.

so If the boyfriend seems thoughtless, cruel, reckless in a way you don't like, irresponsible in a way that matters to you, lacking empathy, hard to read, or untrustworthy, that is what matters. If he is violent, that matters more than any explanation of why he does it. You don't need a medical permission slip to decide to leave. and you should know that you can't manage or change an abuser who doesn't have ASPD, either. this is the most important thing: if you're feeling like the diagnosis changes everything because it means you can't change him, stop. ALWAYS assume that an abuser won't change. in fact, it's always a good bet that a selfish, bad boyfriend won't change, even if he's not abusive. please don't look to personality disorder classification to help make up your mind whether it's worth it. if you have to wonder, it's not worth it.

A pseudo-medical explanation for his behavior and a semi-scientific label for his character does not change what he is like -- which you have not said anything about. It does not make him worse than he was before you knew this about him, and it does not obligate you to excuse anything you wouldn't excuse in an officially non-disordered man. If he mistreats you or you're afraid of him or just don't like the way the relationship feels, leave. but you have to trust your own judgment on that over the DSM's. Remember that this is a not a disease, but a description.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:30 PM on October 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


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