Wavy-Curly-Fine-Thin Hair Help
October 18, 2017 9:19 AM Subscribe
My hair is very baby fine, and as thin as you can imagine, but it has an enormous amount of body, which can pouf at the slightest damp breeze or flatten out something fierce if I dry it wrong. It is in generally good condition, highlighted blonde, and prone to dryness, frizz and breakage. It would be typed a mixture of 2's, with a little bit of 3a in the back.
The front, sides, and overlayer in the back (so if the back were horizontally divided in two, the top part of that) are all wavy in loose S's and look good with little effort, and a little bit of gel. The hidden underlayer of the back is crazy zig-zaggy curly, so much so that practically anything I do there makes it look like a mouse has chewed out the middle of it because the straighter bits above don't connect to the curlier bits below and the result is overly thin, flyaway hair, that can also look stringy.
In the past, I addressed this issue with curly cuts, which would end up chunking my hair into curls in the back, and looked pretty with little effort. Since I've moved to NYC, I've been unable to find a hairdresser who I can afford and who knows what they're doing. The trouble with my hair, apart from the crazy undercurl, is it's so thin, one false move, and I'm all but bald in the back. As a result I've had literally the four most disastrous haircuts of my life in the last few years, ending up with some sort of unasked for Carol Brady shag thing, bangs in the back, and worse. I finally found a knowledgeable affordable stylist in all ways, except cutting for curl, so I finally took the opportunity to grow out my hair, which I'd been wanting to do all my life. Now, it goes several inches below my shoulders.
I'd been hoping the crazy part would finally grow out, and begin to weigh itself down, but this has yet to happen. My stylist, meanwhile, started teaching me how to give myself a blow-out (which if done properly does solve the problem), but I'm not good at it, and even being extremely cautious, I can see my hair breaking, so I don't think this is a long-term solution — despite owning something like five hairdryers: a cap one, a round rotating brush dryer, a cool air dryer, and several kinds of diffusers. I also bought a hot iron brush that never really worked, and that I am mostly scared of; several stylists in the past have warned me against hot irons, especially.
Habits
I wash it every third day or so.
I never use a brush or a towel on it.
I only comb when it's wet.
I sleep with it up, to prevent breakage.
I use shea moisturizing shampoo and conditioner, and the like.
What Doesn't Work
I've experimented a little with no sulphate. It makes no difference.
Olive and coconut oils are too oily looking for my density.
I've tried sleeping with it twisted around itself, to help straighten it, but it mostly just ends up a little frizzier and dirtier than normal.
Braids are hard to do, and make it stick out.
Clips work to a point, but then flatten too much.
Wrapping didn't work: too flat
Wrapping around a headband didn't work either
Products
I have a graveyard of hair products in the bathroom, and almost inevitably end up using Ouidad's liquid gel because it's the only thing that isn't too firm, causing my hair in the back to break when I try to dry it naturally. It's also the only thing that doesn't make my hair look prematurely dirty.
What Works
It helps somewhat to dry my hair in a ponytail, only this tends to make it too flat.
I can't afford, and am not impressed with what I see of Deva and Ouidad in NYC. I don't dare chemically straighten it, particularly because I highlight it. I would ideally continue to wear my hair long, but mostly I end up wearing it up.
What I'd like is to find is some natural way to dry it and find an effective, predictable way to stretch the underlayer in the back so it connects to the overlayer.
Please help.
The front, sides, and overlayer in the back (so if the back were horizontally divided in two, the top part of that) are all wavy in loose S's and look good with little effort, and a little bit of gel. The hidden underlayer of the back is crazy zig-zaggy curly, so much so that practically anything I do there makes it look like a mouse has chewed out the middle of it because the straighter bits above don't connect to the curlier bits below and the result is overly thin, flyaway hair, that can also look stringy.
In the past, I addressed this issue with curly cuts, which would end up chunking my hair into curls in the back, and looked pretty with little effort. Since I've moved to NYC, I've been unable to find a hairdresser who I can afford and who knows what they're doing. The trouble with my hair, apart from the crazy undercurl, is it's so thin, one false move, and I'm all but bald in the back. As a result I've had literally the four most disastrous haircuts of my life in the last few years, ending up with some sort of unasked for Carol Brady shag thing, bangs in the back, and worse. I finally found a knowledgeable affordable stylist in all ways, except cutting for curl, so I finally took the opportunity to grow out my hair, which I'd been wanting to do all my life. Now, it goes several inches below my shoulders.
I'd been hoping the crazy part would finally grow out, and begin to weigh itself down, but this has yet to happen. My stylist, meanwhile, started teaching me how to give myself a blow-out (which if done properly does solve the problem), but I'm not good at it, and even being extremely cautious, I can see my hair breaking, so I don't think this is a long-term solution — despite owning something like five hairdryers: a cap one, a round rotating brush dryer, a cool air dryer, and several kinds of diffusers. I also bought a hot iron brush that never really worked, and that I am mostly scared of; several stylists in the past have warned me against hot irons, especially.
Habits
I wash it every third day or so.
I never use a brush or a towel on it.
I only comb when it's wet.
I sleep with it up, to prevent breakage.
I use shea moisturizing shampoo and conditioner, and the like.
What Doesn't Work
I've experimented a little with no sulphate. It makes no difference.
Olive and coconut oils are too oily looking for my density.
I've tried sleeping with it twisted around itself, to help straighten it, but it mostly just ends up a little frizzier and dirtier than normal.
Braids are hard to do, and make it stick out.
Clips work to a point, but then flatten too much.
Wrapping didn't work: too flat
Wrapping around a headband didn't work either
Products
I have a graveyard of hair products in the bathroom, and almost inevitably end up using Ouidad's liquid gel because it's the only thing that isn't too firm, causing my hair in the back to break when I try to dry it naturally. It's also the only thing that doesn't make my hair look prematurely dirty.
What Works
It helps somewhat to dry my hair in a ponytail, only this tends to make it too flat.
I can't afford, and am not impressed with what I see of Deva and Ouidad in NYC. I don't dare chemically straighten it, particularly because I highlight it. I would ideally continue to wear my hair long, but mostly I end up wearing it up.
What I'd like is to find is some natural way to dry it and find an effective, predictable way to stretch the underlayer in the back so it connects to the overlayer.
Please help.
Oh, and if you want to loosen the curl just of one section of your hair, try this: at night, section just that part of your hair and get it wet with a spray bottle. Braid or flat twist just that section with a little bit of leave-in or gel. I don't think you will be able to match the drier texture of the top of your hair, but you may lengthen it at least so that it doesn't look so uneven.
posted by muddgirl at 10:19 AM on October 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 10:19 AM on October 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I too am about to suggest a protein treatment for your hair, as I have very fine wavy/curly flyaway hair that is helped immensely by protein. However, I disagree that a homemade protein treatment will work. Protein molecules that are too large cannot bind with the hair and are ineffective, and most homemade masks and mixes use proteins that are too large and just wash right off again once you step back under the water. The thing to look for in the ingredients is 'hydrolyzed' stuff. Those are proteins that have been broken down into smaller pieces. I use masks that contain hydrolyzed silk and hydrolyzed collagen, and both work well with my hair.
You might find that you need to apply the protein mask to only the 'upper half' of your hair, as it sounds like the last thing you want to do is cause the under layer to stiffen even more. Protein applied to already thick, healthy hair can cause it to become quite stiff and brittle, so try just applying it to the sections that are quite 'worn' and flyaway.
posted by DSime at 10:27 AM on October 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
You might find that you need to apply the protein mask to only the 'upper half' of your hair, as it sounds like the last thing you want to do is cause the under layer to stiffen even more. Protein applied to already thick, healthy hair can cause it to become quite stiff and brittle, so try just applying it to the sections that are quite 'worn' and flyaway.
posted by DSime at 10:27 AM on October 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I believe that Knox gelatin, which is the main ingredient in the recipe I posted, is hydrolyzed collagen. It costs about 75 cents per treatment, depending on the strength.
posted by muddgirl at 11:03 AM on October 18, 2017
posted by muddgirl at 11:03 AM on October 18, 2017
This won't be a popular response but when my hair was at its worst and sounding like yours, the only thing that helped was to stop highlighting it. Going blonde damages the hair so much that you could literally snap it in two. Any heating on top of that like straightening or drying is basically the death knell. So yeah, no bleaching or heating and lots of masks and protein treatment. Sorry, as long as you keep doing it, it's just killing your hair more and more.
posted by Jubey at 1:55 PM on October 18, 2017
posted by Jubey at 1:55 PM on October 18, 2017
Best answer: Ah, I didn't realize that Knox is a hydrolyzed protein. In that case, it's a pretty good cheap option!
A couple of other things I've found very effective:
- I dry my hair with a flour sack towel, like these (not endorsing, just the first product that popped up when I googled.I think the ones I use were bought at random in an Albertson's supermarket). I found that regular terrycloth towels would rough up my fine hair too much, but the Deva-style microfiber towels sucked too much moisture out and made my hair very puffy and fluffy. I dry my hair by 'plopping' it for twenty minutes straight out of the shower and then untying to air dry once the worst of the damp has been absorbed by the towel. I do my very best not to touch it during the drying period. So the hair is handled or 'roughed up' as little as possible during this time. It takes a couple of hours (sometimes as long as five hours) to dry like this though, so I only wash my hair in the evening or on the weekend.
- I stopped using products that have a very large amount of glycerin as an ingredient (anything that lists it as one of the first four ingredients). Glycerin is a strong humectant and I found that it was pulling moisture out of the hair shaft and causing it to frizz up. A lot of hydrolyzed proteins are already humectants, and I felt I was getting enough from the masks I was using.
- I started sleeping on a silk pillowcase instead of trying up or 'pineappling' my hair at night. I discovered that my hair is so fine that even the loosest elastic or scrunchie was breaking my hair when it was combined with my extremely active sleeping patterns. It wasn't the elastic itself that was snapping the hair, it was that I was sort of yanking against the tied up hair when I ground my head against my pillow at night.
posted by DSime at 2:06 PM on October 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
A couple of other things I've found very effective:
- I dry my hair with a flour sack towel, like these (not endorsing, just the first product that popped up when I googled.I think the ones I use were bought at random in an Albertson's supermarket). I found that regular terrycloth towels would rough up my fine hair too much, but the Deva-style microfiber towels sucked too much moisture out and made my hair very puffy and fluffy. I dry my hair by 'plopping' it for twenty minutes straight out of the shower and then untying to air dry once the worst of the damp has been absorbed by the towel. I do my very best not to touch it during the drying period. So the hair is handled or 'roughed up' as little as possible during this time. It takes a couple of hours (sometimes as long as five hours) to dry like this though, so I only wash my hair in the evening or on the weekend.
- I stopped using products that have a very large amount of glycerin as an ingredient (anything that lists it as one of the first four ingredients). Glycerin is a strong humectant and I found that it was pulling moisture out of the hair shaft and causing it to frizz up. A lot of hydrolyzed proteins are already humectants, and I felt I was getting enough from the masks I was using.
- I started sleeping on a silk pillowcase instead of trying up or 'pineappling' my hair at night. I discovered that my hair is so fine that even the loosest elastic or scrunchie was breaking my hair when it was combined with my extremely active sleeping patterns. It wasn't the elastic itself that was snapping the hair, it was that I was sort of yanking against the tied up hair when I ground my head against my pillow at night.
posted by DSime at 2:06 PM on October 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Oh, AND: I never, ever, ever use a comb or brush on it. I detangle in the shower by scrunching a load of conditioner in and then very patiently working the knots out using my fingers. It takes me a good five to ten minutes to detangle by hand, but I felt that the comb I'd been using was roughing up the hair shaft as it was passing over it and causing it to want to frizz and seperate instead of 'clumping' with the other hairs.
I use a very heavy gel to define the curls as part of my shower routine, and I 'scrunch' out the curls by rubbing a few drops of either safflower or rose hip oil into my palms beforehand so that I VERY lightly oil the ends of my hair as I scrunch it. I prefer oils that are high in linoleic acids as they are lighter and don't weight down the hair as much. They seem to me to have better penetration instead of sitting around on the surface of the hair dragging it down as olive oil or other high-oleic acid oils do. You've mentioned not liking heavy gels, though, so this one might not apply to you.
posted by DSime at 2:16 PM on October 18, 2017
I use a very heavy gel to define the curls as part of my shower routine, and I 'scrunch' out the curls by rubbing a few drops of either safflower or rose hip oil into my palms beforehand so that I VERY lightly oil the ends of my hair as I scrunch it. I prefer oils that are high in linoleic acids as they are lighter and don't weight down the hair as much. They seem to me to have better penetration instead of sitting around on the surface of the hair dragging it down as olive oil or other high-oleic acid oils do. You've mentioned not liking heavy gels, though, so this one might not apply to you.
posted by DSime at 2:16 PM on October 18, 2017
Best answer: We have similar hair! I see you're already foregoing the towel, which was going to be my first note (I scrunch with a t-shirt). But listen: I spent a long time rolling my eyes at this, but I stopped using shampoo and it's been GREAT. I use a cleansing conditioner (Renpure) that's so cheap on Amazon that it's considered an add-on item. It's not totally dissimilar to a shampoo, in the sense that it's not an oil or anything, but it doesn't lather, which I think mainly just forces you to do a slightly different, less destructive motion when washing your hair. Oh, and argan oil is kind of magic and a bazillion times lighter than coconut oil.
posted by fuzzy night at 8:51 PM on October 18, 2017
posted by fuzzy night at 8:51 PM on October 18, 2017
Best answer: With regards to the product graveyard -- a phenomenon I think a lot of us are all too well acquainted with -- how are things when you leave the salon? If "good," and your stylist knows his/her way around your hair, and is not the type to push the products sold at the salon and no others, have you asked for suggestions? About the only stuff I end up finishing the whole bottle of have been things recommended by my hairstylist (a nice man who has never tried to tack on an upsell when a new product hits the salon or told me how much better my hair would be if I used the shampoo the salon uses on me, etc) when I have asked for recommendations, and I have been pretty fussy and specific. Ask if they have sample packets so you can find out if what works well in the salon will also be a thing that will work well for you at home.
When I dry my hair in a ponytail, which does a few useful things, I don't do the ponytail and leave it in place; I take it out, finger-comb, and re-ponytail in a new spot several times while it's drying -- this works a lot better, for me, than doing it once and leaving it there; the finger-combing and moving it about give me the good parts of drying it in a ponytail without the bad parts, for what that's worth...
posted by kmennie at 11:59 PM on October 18, 2017
When I dry my hair in a ponytail, which does a few useful things, I don't do the ponytail and leave it in place; I take it out, finger-comb, and re-ponytail in a new spot several times while it's drying -- this works a lot better, for me, than doing it once and leaving it there; the finger-combing and moving it about give me the good parts of drying it in a ponytail without the bad parts, for what that's worth...
posted by kmennie at 11:59 PM on October 18, 2017
Response by poster: Thanks, everyone, for all your great answers! I appreciated all of them, but only highlighted those effective for my demanding hair.
I've also been deep diving into the Sciencey Hair Blog referenced in @Muddgirl's link — and I suspect known to several of you here — for the last few days! Between that amazing resource, and @fuzzy night's discussion of argan oil, which finally got me to try something other than olive oil (and, man, is there a world of difference! and, oh, that's why all the fuss about Moroccan Oil!), I've already begun to realize that all the poof and dry ends were caused by:
* too much porosity because of the highlights and my extra-fine hair,
* overconditioning and sulfate alternative build-up,
* products with too much glycerin in them, and
* not detangling enough from the bottom, and
* that, yes, I do probably need more protein.
So I've already started using argan oil. I've stopped using a couple of products with too much glycerin in them. I'm now detangling differently. And I'm studying whether I'm getting enough protein with my current products or whether I may need more as per Sciencey Hair Blog.
Already, with just the argan oil in it, my hair barely broke at all during my last wash, and when it was dry it was far calmer, and silkier than it has been in the last several months. Three cheers for the sisters in hair!
posted by Puppetry for Privacy at 7:13 PM on October 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've also been deep diving into the Sciencey Hair Blog referenced in @Muddgirl's link — and I suspect known to several of you here — for the last few days! Between that amazing resource, and @fuzzy night's discussion of argan oil, which finally got me to try something other than olive oil (and, man, is there a world of difference! and, oh, that's why all the fuss about Moroccan Oil!), I've already begun to realize that all the poof and dry ends were caused by:
* too much porosity because of the highlights and my extra-fine hair,
* overconditioning and sulfate alternative build-up,
* products with too much glycerin in them, and
* not detangling enough from the bottom, and
* that, yes, I do probably need more protein.
So I've already started using argan oil. I've stopped using a couple of products with too much glycerin in them. I'm now detangling differently. And I'm studying whether I'm getting enough protein with my current products or whether I may need more as per Sciencey Hair Blog.
Already, with just the argan oil in it, my hair barely broke at all during my last wash, and when it was dry it was far calmer, and silkier than it has been in the last several months. Three cheers for the sisters in hair!
posted by Puppetry for Privacy at 7:13 PM on October 29, 2017 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by muddgirl at 9:35 AM on October 18, 2017 [2 favorites]