Should I stay or should I go now?
October 14, 2017 11:13 PM Subscribe
My husband has been addicted to opioids for the last five or so years of our 23-year marriage. He has had chronic migraine-related problems since the 6th year after we wed. The opioids help mitigate the migraine problems for an hour or two at a time but he began using them regularly beyond the need for migraine relief. He sunk so far down into opioid abuse that he became a recluse and I only saw him for about 15 minutes a day. He never left the house unless there was absolutely no way to avoid it. Between the illness and the drugs, I have been single in my marriage for over a decade. I recently gave him an ultimatum regarding the drug abuse and he has started tapering off the pills. His old, loving self has returned and I find that I continue to be as out of love with him as I have for years.
Meanwhile, I have a flirtation going on with a person I see periodically in public settings. While I do not expect this to lead to anything, it does remind me of what I’ve been missing. My husband thinks that all will be well if he continues to improve, although I did tell him a couple of weeks back that there was no guarantee even if he did.
Something said by a leading female character in a BBC series I’ve been watching struck me yesterday. She said, to an ex-boyfriend, “I can’t go back to how I felt before. I can only tell you how I feel now.” She was telling him that their relationship was over.
She put into words what I’ve been feeling. Because reasons, I know my husband won’t be able to support himself if I leave. I am the primary breadwinner. I feel like I would be abandoning him and I know he would feel the same. But it pains me to think I’ll miss having romantic love in my life ever again. I just don’t know what to do at this point.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you.
Meanwhile, I have a flirtation going on with a person I see periodically in public settings. While I do not expect this to lead to anything, it does remind me of what I’ve been missing. My husband thinks that all will be well if he continues to improve, although I did tell him a couple of weeks back that there was no guarantee even if he did.
Something said by a leading female character in a BBC series I’ve been watching struck me yesterday. She said, to an ex-boyfriend, “I can’t go back to how I felt before. I can only tell you how I feel now.” She was telling him that their relationship was over.
She put into words what I’ve been feeling. Because reasons, I know my husband won’t be able to support himself if I leave. I am the primary breadwinner. I feel like I would be abandoning him and I know he would feel the same. But it pains me to think I’ll miss having romantic love in my life ever again. I just don’t know what to do at this point.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you.
Wait until he has fully tapered off his pills and give it some time to see if you can fall in love again with him. If not, only after trying one more time, leave.
posted by AugustWest at 12:21 AM on October 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 12:21 AM on October 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
A relationship takes work, and requires that both parties grow together. Now, if you had a time machine, could both go back to the start of the illness, and make different decisions, you might have grown together. But you don't have a time machine. You've become different people because of the separation caused by the illness & opioids.
Essentially, for this relationship to work, you both need to fall in love with each other again- if this isn't a possibility, then divorce may be on your horizon.
I'm torn with how to answer the bit about the flirting. On one hand, if you're asking for advice on how to proceed with divorce, this doesn't matter. But if you're looking for how to objectively look at your relationship (or even give your relationship a chance) the flirting is not allowing your husband to even attempt to fill the romantic need you have. You know yourself and him better than we do, obviously, but be careful to really know what you want.
posted by freethefeet at 12:25 AM on October 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Essentially, for this relationship to work, you both need to fall in love with each other again- if this isn't a possibility, then divorce may be on your horizon.
I'm torn with how to answer the bit about the flirting. On one hand, if you're asking for advice on how to proceed with divorce, this doesn't matter. But if you're looking for how to objectively look at your relationship (or even give your relationship a chance) the flirting is not allowing your husband to even attempt to fill the romantic need you have. You know yourself and him better than we do, obviously, but be careful to really know what you want.
posted by freethefeet at 12:25 AM on October 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
Christ, don't make people on this site answer this - everyone will project all over it, ha. We can't answer - it depends so much on what he is like, what you are like, what you are like together, what you want out of life. What is clear is that you're suffering and he is suffering. Those issues should both be addressed.
This is very important: is he in adequate treatment for opioid addiction? He needs to be seeing a mental health therapist. Men can be resistant to the idea, but emotional support and the right medications to fight his withdrawal symptoms could literally mean the difference between life and death for him. I've literally watched people die for being too stubborn to seek this kind of treatment. But medical interventions do work, and they do make things much easier. Talk to a doctor?
Don't make decisions based on flirting. You are likely stressed and lonely, and need a good helping of love and support, i.e. ideally therapy, yourself.
posted by karmachameleon at 12:41 AM on October 15, 2017 [70 favorites]
This is very important: is he in adequate treatment for opioid addiction? He needs to be seeing a mental health therapist. Men can be resistant to the idea, but emotional support and the right medications to fight his withdrawal symptoms could literally mean the difference between life and death for him. I've literally watched people die for being too stubborn to seek this kind of treatment. But medical interventions do work, and they do make things much easier. Talk to a doctor?
Don't make decisions based on flirting. You are likely stressed and lonely, and need a good helping of love and support, i.e. ideally therapy, yourself.
posted by karmachameleon at 12:41 AM on October 15, 2017 [70 favorites]
I feel like I'm in a somewhat similar situation to yours. The answers I got to my three questions thus far have been useful to me, but I'm only halfway into the time frame you're talking about here. I don't think I could take getting to the point you've reached, I'm sorry to say. I admire your fortitude. I'm still with my spouse and trying to figure out my next steps after returning from our separation and seeing how things went again for a while, and I'm already feeling frustrated. It's tough to imagine having the patience to have stayed in this situation for twice as long. So I really feel for you.
It's difficult to be in a scenario where you very much want to do right by someone who is suffering from an illness that leads them to withdraw from you for long periods. But as I can attest, when you feel that spark with someone again, it reminds you of both what it's like to have someone feel that way about you and what it's like to feel that way about someone again yourself. So you're still capable of that. That's important. How you proceed is also important.
Here are a few thoughts, distilled from having read like every Ask MetaFilter thread on this subject, including my own, along with some books about it; discussing it with my therapist ad nauseam and an attorney briefly; and turning it over in my head nightly.
1. Therapist and lawyer, stat. If you don't have a therapist to talk to about all of this, you would do well to start seeing someone. You need someone you can talk to about this who can come to the subject with fresh perspective. This having gone on so long, I wouldn't be surprised if some people in your life have drifted away a bit or aren't otherwise super objective about the situation after all this time. You deserve to have someone to listen to you and think this through with you. It's worth the money. (Also, discussing this stuff with a therapist first saves money on lawyers' fees. Don't mix up the two roles. You need both.) You should probably also consider seeing a couples' therapist together, if he's willing, because you need to relearn how to talk to each other—even if you ultimately head for divorce, you'll need to be able to talk through that process.
2. Regarding a lawyer, before the next steps, as my therapist and friends remind me, you should be actually seeking legal representation and getting a consultation on your legal options, which will be specific to your jurisdiction and family situation. If any kids are involved (if so, you should probably mention it in the thread), that could change things significantly. Real estate and shared assets are also considerations. One of the reasons why you want to avoid seeking comfort in someone else's arms, apart from the obvious issues, is that it could lead to adverse consequences in a legal sense, again depending upon your jurisdiction. Ditto separation—look into the legal considerations before doing so. You can get an initial legal consultation for free in many cases—I did—and it's worth the time it takes.
3. I was about to say, going through something like this alongside someone is difficult, legit illness or not—but in fact, what your husband has is a legit illness. The fact that it's an illness and he's sick, though, doesn't obviate the need for him to try to improve his lot. And it doesn't change how you feel. Even if he got better tomorrow by magic, which isn't going to happen, that wouldn't change what you've gone through and how your feelings have shifted accordingly in that time. You need and deserve love and support and physical contact, and when you don't get that for so long, your feelings toward the man who once promised to provide them will perhaps inevitably change. Something to work through with a therapist is all of the feelings that go along with that—feelings of guilt, abandonment, anger, sadness. You shouldn't let these feelings keep you in a situation that's no longer working. Nor is it necessarily a good idea to let them drive you into a major fantasy about anyone else, per above. But it's understandable that anything that provides that kind of positive feedback will be attractive right now. You're in a vulnerable, sensitive place. Keep that in mind.
4. Inasmuch as everyone always cautions me about this, I will note that leaving doesn't have to mean leaving him destitute. You can leave and legally separate, setting up a structure by which you provide for him but aren't stuck in purgatory with him. (One thing to look into if you do: Does your health insurance still cover him if you separate? That can be a hidden gotcha you'll want to avoid, if one reason for staying together is to ensure he retains coverage.) You can also just divorce and come to an agreement that includes spousal support—this is one of those things that you should be cautious about offering, but that if he isn't able to work will probably come up in any agreement or decision by a judge. You really want to be careful about this, especially since you're presumably at least a few years older than I am. You could end up in a scenario where you're legally obligated to provide a certain level of support, but then you suffer an adverse health event or get laid off and no longer can maintain that. My point, though, is that you can care and evidence that caring monetarily, as long as you're careful to structure it in a way that protects your own interests. This is what you need a good lawyer to do.
5. I feel like there are a lot of small insights offered in various threads that I'm glossing past, just focusing on where I am with things. I would suggest doing a Google search of Ask MetaFilter for terms related to your situation and reading any relevant threads you find. That's been vastly illuminating to me.
6. Other considerations: I know all of this might feel especially daunting in the face of challenges that have arisen to healthcare under the Affordable Care Act—it certainly does for me. One of the things I'm struggling with that perhaps you also are is that I do still care about my spouse. But we feel like roommates who are friends or somewhat friendly, and not even always that considerate of each other. Something else I struggle with is whether my expectations are too high—people in threads like this sometimes like to dig in the knife a little and point out that you go into marriage for better or for worse, and what kind of person are you not to stick it out? But you didn't go into this to trade your life and all your chances of happiness for someone else's. Breaking one's vows doesn't always have to involve infidelity. It's just as much of a disavowal on your husband's part to have withdrawn comfort and affection for so long. And it's just as much of a betrayal for him to let himself succumb to addiction while failing to seek treatment for that long.
7. One thing that was useful that my therapist suggested was making a list of things I'd regret not trying before giving up. Maybe make that list for yourself. As others suggest, if he can successfully taper off the drugs, see if you can try any of those things. See if, at that point, you still want to—one thing I've realized is that some of the things I thought I wanted from my spouse, I sadly no longer do. If you get to that point, you should consider giving yourself—and him—a time frame. Before it gets there, one thing to consider is whether there's anything left unsaid, not just undone—if you've become accustomed to withdrawing from his withdrawal, retreating into yourself, now is the time to say what you feel. Also, you may have already started doing this, after so long, but get out of the house—exercise, try new things, make new friends. Get perspective however you can. If things improve, it will give you a more rich set of experiences to draw upon in your interactions. And if things don't improve, you'll need to start putting yourself out there anyway.
Alllll of that said, I don't have anything to offer except my past 10 months' worth of experience contemplating these questions. As karmachameleon notes, I'm probably projecting some of my own experiences on my answer. I truly wish you luck.
posted by o_O at 12:45 AM on October 15, 2017 [33 favorites]
It's difficult to be in a scenario where you very much want to do right by someone who is suffering from an illness that leads them to withdraw from you for long periods. But as I can attest, when you feel that spark with someone again, it reminds you of both what it's like to have someone feel that way about you and what it's like to feel that way about someone again yourself. So you're still capable of that. That's important. How you proceed is also important.
Here are a few thoughts, distilled from having read like every Ask MetaFilter thread on this subject, including my own, along with some books about it; discussing it with my therapist ad nauseam and an attorney briefly; and turning it over in my head nightly.
1. Therapist and lawyer, stat. If you don't have a therapist to talk to about all of this, you would do well to start seeing someone. You need someone you can talk to about this who can come to the subject with fresh perspective. This having gone on so long, I wouldn't be surprised if some people in your life have drifted away a bit or aren't otherwise super objective about the situation after all this time. You deserve to have someone to listen to you and think this through with you. It's worth the money. (Also, discussing this stuff with a therapist first saves money on lawyers' fees. Don't mix up the two roles. You need both.) You should probably also consider seeing a couples' therapist together, if he's willing, because you need to relearn how to talk to each other—even if you ultimately head for divorce, you'll need to be able to talk through that process.
2. Regarding a lawyer, before the next steps, as my therapist and friends remind me, you should be actually seeking legal representation and getting a consultation on your legal options, which will be specific to your jurisdiction and family situation. If any kids are involved (if so, you should probably mention it in the thread), that could change things significantly. Real estate and shared assets are also considerations. One of the reasons why you want to avoid seeking comfort in someone else's arms, apart from the obvious issues, is that it could lead to adverse consequences in a legal sense, again depending upon your jurisdiction. Ditto separation—look into the legal considerations before doing so. You can get an initial legal consultation for free in many cases—I did—and it's worth the time it takes.
3. I was about to say, going through something like this alongside someone is difficult, legit illness or not—but in fact, what your husband has is a legit illness. The fact that it's an illness and he's sick, though, doesn't obviate the need for him to try to improve his lot. And it doesn't change how you feel. Even if he got better tomorrow by magic, which isn't going to happen, that wouldn't change what you've gone through and how your feelings have shifted accordingly in that time. You need and deserve love and support and physical contact, and when you don't get that for so long, your feelings toward the man who once promised to provide them will perhaps inevitably change. Something to work through with a therapist is all of the feelings that go along with that—feelings of guilt, abandonment, anger, sadness. You shouldn't let these feelings keep you in a situation that's no longer working. Nor is it necessarily a good idea to let them drive you into a major fantasy about anyone else, per above. But it's understandable that anything that provides that kind of positive feedback will be attractive right now. You're in a vulnerable, sensitive place. Keep that in mind.
4. Inasmuch as everyone always cautions me about this, I will note that leaving doesn't have to mean leaving him destitute. You can leave and legally separate, setting up a structure by which you provide for him but aren't stuck in purgatory with him. (One thing to look into if you do: Does your health insurance still cover him if you separate? That can be a hidden gotcha you'll want to avoid, if one reason for staying together is to ensure he retains coverage.) You can also just divorce and come to an agreement that includes spousal support—this is one of those things that you should be cautious about offering, but that if he isn't able to work will probably come up in any agreement or decision by a judge. You really want to be careful about this, especially since you're presumably at least a few years older than I am. You could end up in a scenario where you're legally obligated to provide a certain level of support, but then you suffer an adverse health event or get laid off and no longer can maintain that. My point, though, is that you can care and evidence that caring monetarily, as long as you're careful to structure it in a way that protects your own interests. This is what you need a good lawyer to do.
5. I feel like there are a lot of small insights offered in various threads that I'm glossing past, just focusing on where I am with things. I would suggest doing a Google search of Ask MetaFilter for terms related to your situation and reading any relevant threads you find. That's been vastly illuminating to me.
6. Other considerations: I know all of this might feel especially daunting in the face of challenges that have arisen to healthcare under the Affordable Care Act—it certainly does for me. One of the things I'm struggling with that perhaps you also are is that I do still care about my spouse. But we feel like roommates who are friends or somewhat friendly, and not even always that considerate of each other. Something else I struggle with is whether my expectations are too high—people in threads like this sometimes like to dig in the knife a little and point out that you go into marriage for better or for worse, and what kind of person are you not to stick it out? But you didn't go into this to trade your life and all your chances of happiness for someone else's. Breaking one's vows doesn't always have to involve infidelity. It's just as much of a disavowal on your husband's part to have withdrawn comfort and affection for so long. And it's just as much of a betrayal for him to let himself succumb to addiction while failing to seek treatment for that long.
7. One thing that was useful that my therapist suggested was making a list of things I'd regret not trying before giving up. Maybe make that list for yourself. As others suggest, if he can successfully taper off the drugs, see if you can try any of those things. See if, at that point, you still want to—one thing I've realized is that some of the things I thought I wanted from my spouse, I sadly no longer do. If you get to that point, you should consider giving yourself—and him—a time frame. Before it gets there, one thing to consider is whether there's anything left unsaid, not just undone—if you've become accustomed to withdrawing from his withdrawal, retreating into yourself, now is the time to say what you feel. Also, you may have already started doing this, after so long, but get out of the house—exercise, try new things, make new friends. Get perspective however you can. If things improve, it will give you a more rich set of experiences to draw upon in your interactions. And if things don't improve, you'll need to start putting yourself out there anyway.
Alllll of that said, I don't have anything to offer except my past 10 months' worth of experience contemplating these questions. As karmachameleon notes, I'm probably projecting some of my own experiences on my answer. I truly wish you luck.
posted by o_O at 12:45 AM on October 15, 2017 [33 favorites]
I don't know whether you should stay or go, but I think it comes down to whether you can respect, trust, and admire your husband again after this. If he's been checked out of the relationship for the past decade, I'm not sure what you owe him--my interpretation is that "in sickness and in health" applies to relationships in which both of you are equally committed to being present for one another. Which, sure, will vary over time. But when the burden of being present and caring has been on you for so, so long, it's a difficult argument to make. You deserve happiness, or at least the chance to look for it.
Also: flirting with someone else right now is not okay, for you or for your husband. It muddies your emotional waters, and will prolong your own confusion, regardless of what you decide in the end.
posted by tapir-whorf at 12:47 AM on October 15, 2017
Also: flirting with someone else right now is not okay, for you or for your husband. It muddies your emotional waters, and will prolong your own confusion, regardless of what you decide in the end.
posted by tapir-whorf at 12:47 AM on October 15, 2017
I guess what I am trying to say is this. Stay or leave, that's a relationship issue. But don't leave a person who isn't going to have the insight to seek treatment before doing due diligence. I know this isn't a PC thing to say, but fuck it. Do not frame addiction as a marriage issue right now, no matter how much it has hurt you. Your care for your husband must be as human being to human being, even if you decide to leave. The stakes are not life or death in your marriage, but leaving his addiction untreated could very well lead to death. I am not saying this to disparage your feelings, I am saying it as a person who has senselessly watched someone die while everyone around them shouted about rights and responsibilities and marriage and love and fidelity, as if there were no medical cure available. If your partner is motivated enough to seek a cure - even cutting back by willpower, which is NOT a small deal - my (trust me, sympathetic) view is that he deserves your respectful help. This will save his life.
Do research opioid treatment and do try to encourage a medical intervention (they can put him on specific, non-addictive anti anxiety drugs that will cut his cravings like NO TOMORROW). I wish this were a platform that allowed emailing anonymous users, but if you wish you contact me through memail I am available.
posted by karmachameleon at 1:12 AM on October 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
Do research opioid treatment and do try to encourage a medical intervention (they can put him on specific, non-addictive anti anxiety drugs that will cut his cravings like NO TOMORROW). I wish this were a platform that allowed emailing anonymous users, but if you wish you contact me through memail I am available.
posted by karmachameleon at 1:12 AM on October 15, 2017 [5 favorites]
a little bit of a counter opinion here-- I see nothing wrong with your flirtation under your current circumstances. Your husband (ill or not) left you for a life of drug addiction and you are not to blame for seeking company with someone who makes you feel less alone. Obviously, if you decide to try to make things work with your husband, it will need to stop-- but you sound mature enough to work that out for yourself.
If fixing your husband by magic were possible, do you want to go back to the way things were at the start? It's okay to say "no", but if it is is a 'no' then you need to be honest both to yourself and him. If you aren't sure or the answer is 'yes', then I urgently recommend therapy for yourself to define your own needs and boundaries in this situation. I wouldn't consider joint therapy until you are clear about your answer and are ready to act.
Remember-- you *can* leave someone in a good way. Maybe not in the way they want, but it can be done in a way which respects your ethics and your own needs. Armed with clarity about your desired outcome, then you can go to a lawyer to discuss how to make that happen if that is where you want to go.
Be good to yourself, and realise you aren't an awful person no matter what your answer may be. Sometimes things go too far, and they can't be fixed.
(I have a dear friend going through something similar right now. His wife is recovering only to find that he no longer loves her, or wants a life together with her. He tells me the biggest mistake he made in the beginning was letting her have hope of repairing the relationship as it was when no such hope existed.)
posted by frumiousb at 1:13 AM on October 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
If fixing your husband by magic were possible, do you want to go back to the way things were at the start? It's okay to say "no", but if it is is a 'no' then you need to be honest both to yourself and him. If you aren't sure or the answer is 'yes', then I urgently recommend therapy for yourself to define your own needs and boundaries in this situation. I wouldn't consider joint therapy until you are clear about your answer and are ready to act.
Remember-- you *can* leave someone in a good way. Maybe not in the way they want, but it can be done in a way which respects your ethics and your own needs. Armed with clarity about your desired outcome, then you can go to a lawyer to discuss how to make that happen if that is where you want to go.
Be good to yourself, and realise you aren't an awful person no matter what your answer may be. Sometimes things go too far, and they can't be fixed.
(I have a dear friend going through something similar right now. His wife is recovering only to find that he no longer loves her, or wants a life together with her. He tells me the biggest mistake he made in the beginning was letting her have hope of repairing the relationship as it was when no such hope existed.)
posted by frumiousb at 1:13 AM on October 15, 2017 [9 favorites]
If he is not in serious medical treatment for opioid addiction, then nothing is really changing.
Help him seek serious medical treatment. I'm pretty sure you know what to do about the marriage long term, in the short term the kind thing to do is help him save himself from a life threatening addiction if at all possible.
For the migraines, diet is apparently a factor for some people. Memail me if you want rec's, but honestly I'm sure a few books/programs will come up if you google it.
I'm sorry you are facing all of this.
posted by jbenben at 4:04 AM on October 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Help him seek serious medical treatment. I'm pretty sure you know what to do about the marriage long term, in the short term the kind thing to do is help him save himself from a life threatening addiction if at all possible.
For the migraines, diet is apparently a factor for some people. Memail me if you want rec's, but honestly I'm sure a few books/programs will come up if you google it.
I'm sorry you are facing all of this.
posted by jbenben at 4:04 AM on October 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
One AskMe solution I saw for migraines (with a chronic sufferer asking) sticks out in my mind because it was so simple (and apparently effective) but didn't really seem to follow from anything: If your husband sleeps on his stomach, get him to to change that.
posted by solarion at 4:52 AM on October 15, 2017
posted by solarion at 4:52 AM on October 15, 2017
Don't make any permanent decisions until your husband is receiving actual medical treatment for his disease, which is addiction. The belief that he can (as well as the desire to) taper off of opiates by himself is a symptom of that disease.
posted by telegraph at 5:36 AM on October 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by telegraph at 5:36 AM on October 15, 2017 [7 favorites]
I work with programs for people tapering from opioid use and have a couple specific recommendations related to that--
- He should talk to his doctor about his overuse of opioids. Someone is prescribing them. The two of them need to talk. There are good medication assisted treatments available such as buprenorphine or naltrexone. If his prescriber is not comfortable prescribing MAT, ask for a referral to a pain specialist who can help with the tapering process. Opioids are notoriously difficult to taper off of, so his efforts to taper himself are unlikely to succeed.
- Get a prescription for naloxone in a nasal injectable form. He is at high risk for overdose and having this rescue medication around the house will give you peace of mind.
I am also someone who divorced a person with chronic medical needs and I was the primary breadwinner. I have a couple comments about that.
- Remember that if you do divorce, you will be likely required to pay him alimony FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE because he is not working. For me, it came to 25 percent of my gross income. It was daunting and depressing for me. Fortunately, my ex married 27 months I started paying alimony so I stopped having to pay it at that point. If your husband is isolating due to his substance use, it is unlikely he will go that route so you may be stuck with a significant financial burden for the remainder of your life. Be sure you think about what you may be jumping into before you jump.
- I found the book, "Codependent No More" surprisingly enlightening about how my life changed as a result of his addiction. It really helped me sort out what life I wanted for my future and helped me get there.
posted by eleslie at 5:38 AM on October 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
- He should talk to his doctor about his overuse of opioids. Someone is prescribing them. The two of them need to talk. There are good medication assisted treatments available such as buprenorphine or naltrexone. If his prescriber is not comfortable prescribing MAT, ask for a referral to a pain specialist who can help with the tapering process. Opioids are notoriously difficult to taper off of, so his efforts to taper himself are unlikely to succeed.
- Get a prescription for naloxone in a nasal injectable form. He is at high risk for overdose and having this rescue medication around the house will give you peace of mind.
I am also someone who divorced a person with chronic medical needs and I was the primary breadwinner. I have a couple comments about that.
- Remember that if you do divorce, you will be likely required to pay him alimony FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE because he is not working. For me, it came to 25 percent of my gross income. It was daunting and depressing for me. Fortunately, my ex married 27 months I started paying alimony so I stopped having to pay it at that point. If your husband is isolating due to his substance use, it is unlikely he will go that route so you may be stuck with a significant financial burden for the remainder of your life. Be sure you think about what you may be jumping into before you jump.
- I found the book, "Codependent No More" surprisingly enlightening about how my life changed as a result of his addiction. It really helped me sort out what life I wanted for my future and helped me get there.
posted by eleslie at 5:38 AM on October 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Try going to an Al-Anon meeting, because your life is being affected by someone else's drug abuse. (Al-Anon is not only for people whose lives are being affected by someone else's alcohol abuse.) Going to a few meetings might help you gain perspective, in the company of other people whose lives have been affected by someone else's substance use.
Caveat: every meeting is different. If you don't like one, try another. There are women's-only meetings, if that's of interest. You don't need to speak up, you don't need to have any particular belief system. Just go, listen, and see if you get any ideas or perspective about your situation. If you're feeling bold, when they ask if there are any newcomers, raise your hand and share a little.
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:34 AM on October 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
Caveat: every meeting is different. If you don't like one, try another. There are women's-only meetings, if that's of interest. You don't need to speak up, you don't need to have any particular belief system. Just go, listen, and see if you get any ideas or perspective about your situation. If you're feeling bold, when they ask if there are any newcomers, raise your hand and share a little.
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:34 AM on October 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think as far as staying, you have met your ethical obligations. Your happiness counts too.
As far as leaving ethically, I think you owe you both an ethical exit. I am sure he will feel abandoned. But leaving is not abandonment. Abandonment is he comes home one day and you've moved with no forwarding address. Leaving is getting expert advice first, then providing some lead time and financial support.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:02 AM on October 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
As far as leaving ethically, I think you owe you both an ethical exit. I am sure he will feel abandoned. But leaving is not abandonment. Abandonment is he comes home one day and you've moved with no forwarding address. Leaving is getting expert advice first, then providing some lead time and financial support.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:02 AM on October 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think it's possible that this small external flirtation could be interfering with your efforts to fall back in love with him more than you think. Maybe cut that out to give things a shot first? I'd try that.
With respect to abandoning him, if you are the primary breadwinner and you've been married for umpteen years, you'll likely end up paying spousal support, no? I think you can let the court formulas sort out your obligations on that end.
I'm sorry that you're going through this.
posted by salvia at 7:41 AM on October 15, 2017
With respect to abandoning him, if you are the primary breadwinner and you've been married for umpteen years, you'll likely end up paying spousal support, no? I think you can let the court formulas sort out your obligations on that end.
I'm sorry that you're going through this.
posted by salvia at 7:41 AM on October 15, 2017
And, I should add, I don't mean to encourage you to stay -- just to make sure you are making the decision to leave without being under the spell of the chemicals that new flirtations can bring. I can understand feeling done, and my parents are both much happier following a divorce.
posted by salvia at 7:43 AM on October 15, 2017
posted by salvia at 7:43 AM on October 15, 2017
So.... your husband has been completely checked out of the marriage to the point where you saw him for 15 minutes a day for the last several years and he rarely left the house, and you're wondering whether this is salvageable?
During this time, has he talked to you about what his condition was doing to your relationship and how much he wasn't contributing, or did he just expect you to support him and do the housework and take care of him while he got high? When is the last time he checked in with you about how you were doing and what your emotional needs were? When did he last treat you like an equal partner?
I understand that there are a lot of complex things about living with chronic pain and addiction. I have chronic pain and I work with people who have disabilities, most of whom have chronic pain and many of whom have had trouble with addiction, so take this as coming from someone who sees a lot of stuff: the kind of behavior you're describing from him is extreme, and even for someone with addiction and chronic pain it is very, very selfish.
If he's not in a serious rehab program, it's a matter of time before he relapses. He needs to work on recovering and changing his behavior and all kinds of things.
Although he may be financially screwed if you divorce him, you're emotionally screwed if you stay. You're allowed to want something in your life besides looking after an addict, and there are disability programs for people who are unable to work so you're probably not throwing him out into the street.
Get a therapist and a lawyer. Work with the therapist on setting some deadlines, like, he has to be engaged in and fully compliant with a recovery program within X amount of time or you're gone, and then don't move the goalposts. Don't take excuses on it: addicts are all about excuses. Talk to the therapist about what's in it for you to stay versus leave instead of focusing on what's in it for him. Talk to them about what the last ten years have been like. See what you think then.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:32 AM on October 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
During this time, has he talked to you about what his condition was doing to your relationship and how much he wasn't contributing, or did he just expect you to support him and do the housework and take care of him while he got high? When is the last time he checked in with you about how you were doing and what your emotional needs were? When did he last treat you like an equal partner?
I understand that there are a lot of complex things about living with chronic pain and addiction. I have chronic pain and I work with people who have disabilities, most of whom have chronic pain and many of whom have had trouble with addiction, so take this as coming from someone who sees a lot of stuff: the kind of behavior you're describing from him is extreme, and even for someone with addiction and chronic pain it is very, very selfish.
If he's not in a serious rehab program, it's a matter of time before he relapses. He needs to work on recovering and changing his behavior and all kinds of things.
Although he may be financially screwed if you divorce him, you're emotionally screwed if you stay. You're allowed to want something in your life besides looking after an addict, and there are disability programs for people who are unable to work so you're probably not throwing him out into the street.
Get a therapist and a lawyer. Work with the therapist on setting some deadlines, like, he has to be engaged in and fully compliant with a recovery program within X amount of time or you're gone, and then don't move the goalposts. Don't take excuses on it: addicts are all about excuses. Talk to the therapist about what's in it for you to stay versus leave instead of focusing on what's in it for him. Talk to them about what the last ten years have been like. See what you think then.
posted by bile and syntax at 8:32 AM on October 15, 2017 [14 favorites]
Practically this identical scenario occurred within my (extended) family. I'm sorry to say, but you do not go from basically abdicating responsibility for your own and your family's existence (if he was in his room all day, he wasn't cooking or cleaning or doing basically anything to keep your home livable, now was he?) to being a meaningful partner to anyone. Even if you succeed in getting off the drugs, which is not guaranteed, and not relapsing, which is triply not guaranteed. That's not just the illness of addiction, that is severe, profound character problems as well. (As many have learned, getting clean sometimes just exposes underlying bad character.) He is never going to be a functioning adult member of anyone's household, and he abandoned you years and years ago, so there is no reason to feel bad about "abandoning" him now. Odds are he will find someone else to latch onto in a little while anyway--that's what my family member did. (He's now on the third one of those, having burned through the second poor lady's money and energy.)
So, yes, therapist and lawyer, but with a view towards disentangling yourself and getting out. You do not have an infinite number of years to waste on a futile situation with someone who so fundamentally does not respect you.
posted by praemunire at 8:54 AM on October 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
So, yes, therapist and lawyer, but with a view towards disentangling yourself and getting out. You do not have an infinite number of years to waste on a futile situation with someone who so fundamentally does not respect you.
posted by praemunire at 8:54 AM on October 15, 2017 [10 favorites]
it seems almost unbelievable to me that so many people are recommending he seek treatment -- for help in getting off pain meds. sure, that's a good idea even though he seems to have had great success starting a well-paced taper off the pills just by choosing to; professional help will help. but he needs treatment more urgently for his chronic migraines, unless half a decade of constant opiate stupor has left him permanently cured of them. which seems unlikely.
because I believe you when you say he was taking them round the clock for reasons other than migraine treatment, but when you say they afforded him an hour or two of relief at the most, that sounds like he was, maybe still is, in pain all of the time apart from those hours. stopping opiates while in pain with no other treatment substituted in for the pain condition is not very rational unless there's another reward in sight, such as saving your marriage. which doesn't mean you need to offer him this reward! only that you do not need to agonize over whether he's only stopping for you and will re-start when you're gone. he may; that doesn't make it your fault.
Doctors don't usually go to opiates for migraines so if that's what he was left with, either he exhausted all the other possibilities or he never even started with them because a bad doctor gave him the final option first. Either way, if it's been a decade, he'll have to start all over again with a headache specialist as well as whatever drug treatment program. and you are not his doctor, so none of this is yours to arrange or oversee. You do not have to be his wife because he is a drug addict and you do not have to be his wife because he is in terrible pain all the time. but before you leave, if you can help him make a plan and line up a bunch of specialist appointments, that will be very kind of you. a controlled taper off the marriage, if you will. but if you can't stand to stay that long, you can't.
you "know" he'll never be able to support himself, but a man with the strength of will to make real steps in quitting opiates on his own may be capable of surprising feats when they become necessary. you have been generous and supported him for the last however many years; he does not have grounds to feel wronged that you are not happy to continue that one-sided effort for the rest of his life. he will anyway, but only because it's upsetting to have someone leave you, not because leaving him is not permitted. it is permitted.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:59 AM on October 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
because I believe you when you say he was taking them round the clock for reasons other than migraine treatment, but when you say they afforded him an hour or two of relief at the most, that sounds like he was, maybe still is, in pain all of the time apart from those hours. stopping opiates while in pain with no other treatment substituted in for the pain condition is not very rational unless there's another reward in sight, such as saving your marriage. which doesn't mean you need to offer him this reward! only that you do not need to agonize over whether he's only stopping for you and will re-start when you're gone. he may; that doesn't make it your fault.
Doctors don't usually go to opiates for migraines so if that's what he was left with, either he exhausted all the other possibilities or he never even started with them because a bad doctor gave him the final option first. Either way, if it's been a decade, he'll have to start all over again with a headache specialist as well as whatever drug treatment program. and you are not his doctor, so none of this is yours to arrange or oversee. You do not have to be his wife because he is a drug addict and you do not have to be his wife because he is in terrible pain all the time. but before you leave, if you can help him make a plan and line up a bunch of specialist appointments, that will be very kind of you. a controlled taper off the marriage, if you will. but if you can't stand to stay that long, you can't.
you "know" he'll never be able to support himself, but a man with the strength of will to make real steps in quitting opiates on his own may be capable of surprising feats when they become necessary. you have been generous and supported him for the last however many years; he does not have grounds to feel wronged that you are not happy to continue that one-sided effort for the rest of his life. he will anyway, but only because it's upsetting to have someone leave you, not because leaving him is not permitted. it is permitted.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:59 AM on October 15, 2017 [11 favorites]
Drug addiction is a vortex that will suck everything into it, including you. I see some discussion here about due diligence etc and personally I don't think you should feel guilty for not letting this addiction vortex suck you in any more than it already has. I once had a partner who was mentally ill and I was very afraid he would commit suicide if I left. His sickness was like an addiction vortex trying to pull me in.
We all have to wrench our own way out of the quicksand. His addiction is not your row to hoe, and that is not cold to say. Addiction will eat everything around it so it can stay alive. Don't let it eat you. Whether that means staying or going is not really the real question right now, the question is "what do I need to do to prevent his addiction from taking me down with it."
I am so sorry you are going though this.
posted by sockermom at 10:02 AM on October 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
We all have to wrench our own way out of the quicksand. His addiction is not your row to hoe, and that is not cold to say. Addiction will eat everything around it so it can stay alive. Don't let it eat you. Whether that means staying or going is not really the real question right now, the question is "what do I need to do to prevent his addiction from taking me down with it."
I am so sorry you are going though this.
posted by sockermom at 10:02 AM on October 15, 2017 [4 favorites]
We all know, but let me say it again, narcotics are the sneakiest drugs. Mixing up migraines and addiction is the ultimate addiction, as the brain is totally in charge, and will hold him hostage to the addiction with pain. He has to be his own hero on this. Someone has to get it through to him how it happened.
posted by Oyéah at 11:11 AM on October 15, 2017
posted by Oyéah at 11:11 AM on October 15, 2017
it seems almost unbelievable to me that so many people are recommending he seek treatment -- for help in getting off pain meds. sure, that's a good idea even though he seems to have had great success starting a well-paced taper off the pills just by choosing to; professional help will help. but he needs treatment more urgently for his chronic migraines, unless half a decade of constant opiate stupor has left him permanently cured of them. which seems unlikely.
Chronic pain and addiction are both serious problems. Both need to be addressed, and any medical professionals worth their salt will be well familiar with the fact that cutting off the medication will leave the pain untreated. Both conditions require a specialist - probably at this point, spending a day or two calling around to locate good doctors (to help with each) will yield the best results.
It's VERY easy to miss the fact that addiction is treatable with medical help, due to the fact that DIY efforts to treat it so often fail. Many people simply give up. Same for chronic pain - many people simply give up out of exhaustion. I don't think you and your husband should, OP. Take the concern and discussion in this thread in a positive way, I hope - it is intended as support for your problem. It may seem like there is no light at the end of the tunnel for you guys but there is.
posted by karmachameleon at 11:37 AM on October 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
Chronic pain and addiction are both serious problems. Both need to be addressed, and any medical professionals worth their salt will be well familiar with the fact that cutting off the medication will leave the pain untreated. Both conditions require a specialist - probably at this point, spending a day or two calling around to locate good doctors (to help with each) will yield the best results.
It's VERY easy to miss the fact that addiction is treatable with medical help, due to the fact that DIY efforts to treat it so often fail. Many people simply give up. Same for chronic pain - many people simply give up out of exhaustion. I don't think you and your husband should, OP. Take the concern and discussion in this thread in a positive way, I hope - it is intended as support for your problem. It may seem like there is no light at the end of the tunnel for you guys but there is.
posted by karmachameleon at 11:37 AM on October 15, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think help for the migraines should also be number one.
Personally, I had daily migraines because, of all things, I needed glasses. For years. And it fucked up my balance system in my ears. Literally have him read an eye chart when you get home. You can print one off online. Just try it. (I still get the occasional migraine, but not every day. But that's my "norm".)
I have disabling chronic illness that developed after we got married. And even though my husband and I are very much in the "in sickness in health" section, we agree that we each have to TRY. There was a period where I was really unwell and lashed out, but I realized I needed help because I wasn't holding up my end. But I would TOTALLY understand if it's not something someone could deal with. I don't even want to deal with it and I have to live with it every day.
Get a therapist. Get a lawyer. TRY to at least get them help for migraines, because in the end, if you do decide to leave, perhaps he can be in a bit of a better space for himself.
And get the crush out of your mind completely right now. It's not a factor. Humans get crushes but that's not going to allow you to make a clear headed path through this.
posted by Crystalinne at 2:31 PM on October 15, 2017
Personally, I had daily migraines because, of all things, I needed glasses. For years. And it fucked up my balance system in my ears. Literally have him read an eye chart when you get home. You can print one off online. Just try it. (I still get the occasional migraine, but not every day. But that's my "norm".)
I have disabling chronic illness that developed after we got married. And even though my husband and I are very much in the "in sickness in health" section, we agree that we each have to TRY. There was a period where I was really unwell and lashed out, but I realized I needed help because I wasn't holding up my end. But I would TOTALLY understand if it's not something someone could deal with. I don't even want to deal with it and I have to live with it every day.
Get a therapist. Get a lawyer. TRY to at least get them help for migraines, because in the end, if you do decide to leave, perhaps he can be in a bit of a better space for himself.
And get the crush out of your mind completely right now. It's not a factor. Humans get crushes but that's not going to allow you to make a clear headed path through this.
posted by Crystalinne at 2:31 PM on October 15, 2017
Just remember this: you have built a tremendous collection of boundaries and barriers in your mind to deal with his addiction; even if he were addiction-free tomorrow and forever more, it will take a long time for you to trust him enough to start selectively dismantling that defensive apparatus. And, to be fair, it would be as unreasonable to expect him to stop in one day as it would be for you to wake up tomorrow as if none of this ever happened.
Before you make any decisions, then, both of you need to get support: him to guide him through recovery, and you for guidance as to how to navigate this. Good luck.
posted by davejay at 3:05 PM on October 15, 2017
Before you make any decisions, then, both of you need to get support: him to guide him through recovery, and you for guidance as to how to navigate this. Good luck.
posted by davejay at 3:05 PM on October 15, 2017
I was trying to think about why, after 23 years of marriage and five years of addiction, now is the time that you are thinking about leaving your marriage. My guess is that it has to do with this:
it pains me to think I’ll miss having romantic love in my life ever again
Maybe before, you thought, if only he kicks the addiction it will be OK. Now, you can see that time has taken a serious toll on your relationship, you no longer feel the romance and you are feeling trapped.
My advice to make a promise to yourself that you will absolutely not accept a loveless forever. If you can believe that - that you are entitled and will have romantic love in your future - then you can consider allowing yourself it some time to figure out if it might be possible to get romantic love from the relationship that you are already in - a therapist can help you with that - and then what it would take to get there and how you can find out if it is really possible.
You already know that just sobriety is not going to be enough - there has been real damage to the relationship and it is not going to just pop back to the way it used to be. I think it will take couples therapy to help you really understand what happened and to see if it possible to create a new connection. If the two of you can reforge the relationship, it will be all the stronger for what you've been through. But it is also possible that you could try and find out that it just is no longer possible. So, that promise to yourself, not to stick around forever if love is not possible in this marriage is important. That kind couples work is hard - if he is early recovery it may be too soon for him to really confront his part so working with your own therapist to understand what you need to have it make sense to stick around and try is important in keeping that promise to yourself.
posted by metahawk at 3:40 PM on October 15, 2017
it pains me to think I’ll miss having romantic love in my life ever again
Maybe before, you thought, if only he kicks the addiction it will be OK. Now, you can see that time has taken a serious toll on your relationship, you no longer feel the romance and you are feeling trapped.
My advice to make a promise to yourself that you will absolutely not accept a loveless forever. If you can believe that - that you are entitled and will have romantic love in your future - then you can consider allowing yourself it some time to figure out if it might be possible to get romantic love from the relationship that you are already in - a therapist can help you with that - and then what it would take to get there and how you can find out if it is really possible.
You already know that just sobriety is not going to be enough - there has been real damage to the relationship and it is not going to just pop back to the way it used to be. I think it will take couples therapy to help you really understand what happened and to see if it possible to create a new connection. If the two of you can reforge the relationship, it will be all the stronger for what you've been through. But it is also possible that you could try and find out that it just is no longer possible. So, that promise to yourself, not to stick around forever if love is not possible in this marriage is important. That kind couples work is hard - if he is early recovery it may be too soon for him to really confront his part so working with your own therapist to understand what you need to have it make sense to stick around and try is important in keeping that promise to yourself.
posted by metahawk at 3:40 PM on October 15, 2017
There's a rule on AskMeFi that the last statement you make is actually what you really want to do.
But it pains me to think I’ll miss having romantic love in my life ever again.
Go. You've cared for your husband for far longer than anyone could expect you to. You want to enjoy your life. Go.
I think flirtation is sometimes a perk. There are other people out there. You should find one of them.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:01 PM on October 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
But it pains me to think I’ll miss having romantic love in my life ever again.
Go. You've cared for your husband for far longer than anyone could expect you to. You want to enjoy your life. Go.
I think flirtation is sometimes a perk. There are other people out there. You should find one of them.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:01 PM on October 15, 2017 [1 favorite]
The flirting is a red herring. Many happily-married people get a thrill from flirting with the right people. The fact that you don't love him anymore, or you don't love him enough to stay -- that's the issue.
That said, I don't know if you should leave him now or wait and see. But waiting a while won't hurt anything.
posted by wryly at 7:38 PM on October 15, 2017
That said, I don't know if you should leave him now or wait and see. But waiting a while won't hurt anything.
posted by wryly at 7:38 PM on October 15, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
Good luck.
posted by arnicae at 11:27 PM on October 14, 2017 [14 favorites]