Boundaries cont: possible to have a healthy friendship with male friend?
October 13, 2017 11:55 AM Subscribe
Recently my partner violated my boundaries & as we discuss the issue I find myself reviewing my own boundaries where both my actions and the actions of a friend became problematic.
As a kid I was good friends with a guy who then moved far away when we were 14. After that we stayed in constant contact by phone, emails, etc and considered the other to be a best friend. We confided in each other about everything and my friend sometimes expressed an attraction to me which I brushed off.
As older teenagers/early 20s we got into relationships and the friendship stayed more or less as close as ever. We helped each other through bereavements and break ups, shared many 'niche' commonalities and the friendship deepened.
Finally he moved closer to me and now had a live in girlfriend. We spent more time together again - but to my horror he had grown up and I was now attracted to him. At this stage we were also talking every other day and he was complimenting my looks and telling me how much he admired and believed in me, supported and consoled me at any hour etc (similar to what my own partner was doing lately). He also made some sexual suggestions, which later made me feel he had violated the friendship boundary AND his relationship with his girlfriend. I was in a very bad and vulnerable place in my life, which lead to me developing feelings. I told him about these feelings and we agreed to put distance between us.
I cut contact for over a year, during which time I met my current partner. I have now been with him for over a year and although we have some things to work through, I feel positively about the relationship overall.
When we began talking again my friend apologised for his former actions, citing depression. Now my friend and I talk about our OHs a lot, sharing holiday snaps of us together etc. It already feels much healthier, with no innuendos or flattery present. My friend recently invited me to spend the weekend at his place (including his partner too I'm sure) and I would like to. Its a friendship I want to have for decades to come. But - I assume he never told his partner about what transpired/the cutting of contact (I don't know if he did and feel awkward about raising it).
Given everything that has happened previously, do you think it is possible for to have a mature and healthy friendship going forward? And if I accept his invitation, should I ask him what discussions he had with his girlfriend, if any?
As a kid I was good friends with a guy who then moved far away when we were 14. After that we stayed in constant contact by phone, emails, etc and considered the other to be a best friend. We confided in each other about everything and my friend sometimes expressed an attraction to me which I brushed off.
As older teenagers/early 20s we got into relationships and the friendship stayed more or less as close as ever. We helped each other through bereavements and break ups, shared many 'niche' commonalities and the friendship deepened.
Finally he moved closer to me and now had a live in girlfriend. We spent more time together again - but to my horror he had grown up and I was now attracted to him. At this stage we were also talking every other day and he was complimenting my looks and telling me how much he admired and believed in me, supported and consoled me at any hour etc (similar to what my own partner was doing lately). He also made some sexual suggestions, which later made me feel he had violated the friendship boundary AND his relationship with his girlfriend. I was in a very bad and vulnerable place in my life, which lead to me developing feelings. I told him about these feelings and we agreed to put distance between us.
I cut contact for over a year, during which time I met my current partner. I have now been with him for over a year and although we have some things to work through, I feel positively about the relationship overall.
When we began talking again my friend apologised for his former actions, citing depression. Now my friend and I talk about our OHs a lot, sharing holiday snaps of us together etc. It already feels much healthier, with no innuendos or flattery present. My friend recently invited me to spend the weekend at his place (including his partner too I'm sure) and I would like to. Its a friendship I want to have for decades to come. But - I assume he never told his partner about what transpired/the cutting of contact (I don't know if he did and feel awkward about raising it).
Given everything that has happened previously, do you think it is possible for to have a mature and healthy friendship going forward? And if I accept his invitation, should I ask him what discussions he had with his girlfriend, if any?
Response by poster: His partner lives with him and he said I can come and stay for the weekend, so I am assuming so, yes.
He hasn't mentioned my partner in the invitation yet - but perhaps he will as we get closer to making plans. My partner and I are long distance currently, with the intention of visiting each other regularly. My friend knows this.
posted by Willow251 at 12:10 PM on October 13, 2017
He hasn't mentioned my partner in the invitation yet - but perhaps he will as we get closer to making plans. My partner and I are long distance currently, with the intention of visiting each other regularly. My friend knows this.
posted by Willow251 at 12:10 PM on October 13, 2017
He hasn't mentioned my partner in the invitation yet - but perhaps he will as we get closer to making plans...
This is a good opportunity for you to take an active role in normalizing the "we are JUST friends and have partners" aspect of your relationship. Just ask. "Hey is this an invitation for me-and-partner, or just me? If it's the letter I don't think I can make it." I'd also just, if it were me, decide it's not really your business how he worked this out or managed this with his previous partner. It's really their relationship and (somewhat) not your business. I am definitely a woman who has a lot of close friends of different genders but it's a simple way to draw these "What is the difference between a friendship that is close versus one that is too close" (if there are questions) lines. Pull back a little bit from the intensity of your previous friendship and work on the friendsiness of what you have going now. I think it's a good sign that your friend recognized that what he said was not-ok and apologized. I'd work towards moving forward trying to have a friendship that is less like a surrogate relationship and realizing it may take a little bit of adjusting to get there.
I was in a very bad and vulnerable place in my life, which lead to me developing feelings.
Keep in mind that this may or may not be accurate and you may still find yourself attracted to him. This is not, in and of itself, a reason for not pursuing the friendship but does mean you need to be very honest with yourself and with him about how you manage those feelings if they come up again.
posted by jessamyn at 12:17 PM on October 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is a good opportunity for you to take an active role in normalizing the "we are JUST friends and have partners" aspect of your relationship. Just ask. "Hey is this an invitation for me-and-partner, or just me? If it's the letter I don't think I can make it." I'd also just, if it were me, decide it's not really your business how he worked this out or managed this with his previous partner. It's really their relationship and (somewhat) not your business. I am definitely a woman who has a lot of close friends of different genders but it's a simple way to draw these "What is the difference between a friendship that is close versus one that is too close" (if there are questions) lines. Pull back a little bit from the intensity of your previous friendship and work on the friendsiness of what you have going now. I think it's a good sign that your friend recognized that what he said was not-ok and apologized. I'd work towards moving forward trying to have a friendship that is less like a surrogate relationship and realizing it may take a little bit of adjusting to get there.
I was in a very bad and vulnerable place in my life, which lead to me developing feelings.
Keep in mind that this may or may not be accurate and you may still find yourself attracted to him. This is not, in and of itself, a reason for not pursuing the friendship but does mean you need to be very honest with yourself and with him about how you manage those feelings if they come up again.
posted by jessamyn at 12:17 PM on October 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
No. Requiring a conversation between him and his GF is inserting yourself into his relationship with her. It's drama. I would not want you to sleep on my couch if I were her, whether I knew or not.
No visits. Stay in casual contact. Date him if you both are single sometime in the future.
posted by jbenben at 12:23 PM on October 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
No visits. Stay in casual contact. Date him if you both are single sometime in the future.
posted by jbenben at 12:23 PM on October 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Well, I don't require a conversation. I think the mutual desire is to normalise the situation by including our partners more. Surely that is the answer, as opposed to just continuing to be at arms length. For me, there is no point in a friendship where NO time is spent together.
posted by Willow251 at 12:32 PM on October 13, 2017
posted by Willow251 at 12:32 PM on October 13, 2017
I would not assume his partner will be there --- perhaps she'll be on a work trip or out of town to see her grandmother. Flat out ask, "Will Geraldine be there? My Mortimer and I look forward to seeing both of you!", letting this guy know both that you want to know if she'll be there and that your own SO is definitely coming with you. Make it very clear that you do not want this to be a one-on-one visit; ask, don't guess!
posted by easily confused at 12:32 PM on October 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by easily confused at 12:32 PM on October 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think that what happened between the two of you is so minimal as to be no big deal, and you should accept the invitation assuming his GF is there. (If she won't be, that suggests he's still behaving badly to his partners, and Yuck.)
posted by Capri at 12:39 PM on October 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Capri at 12:39 PM on October 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm going to do something I never do, which is read into this through the lens of your past questions. You seem to have some kind of overarching uncertainty, even suspicion, about male-female friendships and I have to wonder if your need for clear rules stems from your own worry that you might on some level want to sleep with this friend or others, and will submit to this wish without rules in place?
posted by kapers at 12:43 PM on October 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by kapers at 12:43 PM on October 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: My suspicion overall comes from learned behaviour. All of my ex partners bar one ended up with a female friend they once swore they were platonic with. I have also had several male friends who said I was a 'sister' come on to me. How am I supposed to feel? I suppose I do now believe there needs to be boundaries in super close friendships.
Separately, my partner was acting inapproproately in my opinion. My ex never gave me a reason to snoop and be suspicious.
posted by Willow251 at 12:55 PM on October 13, 2017
Separately, my partner was acting inapproproately in my opinion. My ex never gave me a reason to snoop and be suspicious.
posted by Willow251 at 12:55 PM on October 13, 2017
I suppose I do now believe there needs to be boundaries in super close friendships.
So make one. "Hey friend, would love to come over so long as your partner will be there."
posted by craven_morhead at 12:57 PM on October 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
So make one. "Hey friend, would love to come over so long as your partner will be there."
posted by craven_morhead at 12:57 PM on October 13, 2017 [13 favorites]
If I were you I'd ask if his girlfriend will be around and what you'll all be doing before agreeing to go, and I'd be wary of going without your boyfriend as it's a different dynamic.
Repeatedly hitting on someone while in a relationship would turn me off of the friendship, and I wouldn't be comfortable having a sleepover with that person after that.
posted by lafemma at 2:07 PM on October 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Repeatedly hitting on someone while in a relationship would turn me off of the friendship, and I wouldn't be comfortable having a sleepover with that person after that.
posted by lafemma at 2:07 PM on October 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
The way you prevent misunderstandings is to come to understandings. "Your partner is going to be there, right? And she's looking forward to me visiting or is this an imposition?" I mean, it's also legit to care how she feels about hosting anyone, much less you. All kinds of boundaries are important in the world, including etiquette.
Men who pretend to be friends with you and then think that gives them the right to hit on you are motherfuckers and how you're supposed to feel is betrayed and furious and sad that they weren't really your friend after all. HOWEVER, in the case of younger dumber people who don't know that the way to maintain appropriate respectful boundaries is to talk out loud with words about how, yes, this is a friendship between people who have complementary sexual/romantic orientations, but that we two people will not be engaging in a sexual or romantic relationship, we are in agreement on this. That's all you have to do! That's the conversation you need to have with this dude (and other dudes you want to be friends with), along with the one about "your girlfriend isn't going to loathe me all weekend right, because that's now how I enjoy spending my weekends".
posted by Lyn Never at 2:38 PM on October 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
Men who pretend to be friends with you and then think that gives them the right to hit on you are motherfuckers and how you're supposed to feel is betrayed and furious and sad that they weren't really your friend after all. HOWEVER, in the case of younger dumber people who don't know that the way to maintain appropriate respectful boundaries is to talk out loud with words about how, yes, this is a friendship between people who have complementary sexual/romantic orientations, but that we two people will not be engaging in a sexual or romantic relationship, we are in agreement on this. That's all you have to do! That's the conversation you need to have with this dude (and other dudes you want to be friends with), along with the one about "your girlfriend isn't going to loathe me all weekend right, because that's now how I enjoy spending my weekends".
posted by Lyn Never at 2:38 PM on October 13, 2017 [10 favorites]
The way you prevent misunderstandings is to come to understandings
That's great advice for 95% of our relationship questions, and I'll just repeat it for truth here :)
posted by SaltySalticid at 3:09 PM on October 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
That's great advice for 95% of our relationship questions, and I'll just repeat it for truth here :)
posted by SaltySalticid at 3:09 PM on October 13, 2017 [9 favorites]
I have now been with him for over a year and although we have some things to work through, I feel positively about the relationship overall.
Hey just stepping in to say, one thing about boundaries is that you have to hold them extra firmly whenever there is something even slightly wobbly about your own relationship.
So if you and your current partner have stuff to work through, my advice is to keep your ex at an extra level of "arm's length" whilst you do that. Don't poke at your boundaries (and the fact that you're asking this question indicates that you are sort of already doing that, in your head) while things are in any way delicate.
posted by greenish at 7:06 AM on October 16, 2017
Hey just stepping in to say, one thing about boundaries is that you have to hold them extra firmly whenever there is something even slightly wobbly about your own relationship.
So if you and your current partner have stuff to work through, my advice is to keep your ex at an extra level of "arm's length" whilst you do that. Don't poke at your boundaries (and the fact that you're asking this question indicates that you are sort of already doing that, in your head) while things are in any way delicate.
posted by greenish at 7:06 AM on October 16, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
Are you sure? Was your partner invited too? Was it "you guys should come visit us" or was it "you should come visit me"?
Let the past stay in the past, but be sure that's where it is. If he is still up to his old tricks, then walk.
P.S. "citing depression" is a bs excuse for making sexual suggestions to friends when partnered. He is responsible for his own skeevy behavior.
posted by headnsouth at 12:07 PM on October 13, 2017 [5 favorites]