BK don't read this......... Pittsburgh, hello
October 9, 2017 10:52 AM Subscribe
In need of Pittsburgh data! We're considering relocating from Brooklyn to a new city. What about Pittsburgh?! Please give us the Pittsburgh breakdown: public schools, quality of life, great neighborhoods, advantages, drawbacks, the works!
After 12 years of living in Brooklyn, my husband and I are feeling Over It. The rent is too damn high, our commutes are hellish, we'd like a bit more space, I can't stomach the idea of sending our kids to private schools that cost more than my college tuition, and our prospects of ever being able to afford a 2 bedroom in an okay-ish neighborhood are pretty much nil.
But even though Brooklyn makes us weary, we are city mice, so moving to the 'burbs isn't in the cards. We've been looking at cities with at least some of the features we love about NYC, namely walkability, cool architecture, a downtown/centralized feel, bike lanes, beautiful streets, green spaces, public transit, and diversity.
From my cursory internet searches, it seems Pittsburgh has a fair amount of these qualities, but we've never been in person. I would love for natives and transplants to weigh in on whether it's a good idea to put Pittsburgh on our list of next-stop contenders. Is it a good city in which to raise children? Are the public schools WITHIN the city as abysmal as Zillow and Trulia suggest? What neighborhoods should we check out? Any and all details are welcome!
After 12 years of living in Brooklyn, my husband and I are feeling Over It. The rent is too damn high, our commutes are hellish, we'd like a bit more space, I can't stomach the idea of sending our kids to private schools that cost more than my college tuition, and our prospects of ever being able to afford a 2 bedroom in an okay-ish neighborhood are pretty much nil.
But even though Brooklyn makes us weary, we are city mice, so moving to the 'burbs isn't in the cards. We've been looking at cities with at least some of the features we love about NYC, namely walkability, cool architecture, a downtown/centralized feel, bike lanes, beautiful streets, green spaces, public transit, and diversity.
From my cursory internet searches, it seems Pittsburgh has a fair amount of these qualities, but we've never been in person. I would love for natives and transplants to weigh in on whether it's a good idea to put Pittsburgh on our list of next-stop contenders. Is it a good city in which to raise children? Are the public schools WITHIN the city as abysmal as Zillow and Trulia suggest? What neighborhoods should we check out? Any and all details are welcome!
I grew up in pittsburgh from 85-97. most suburban schools are pretty great. downsides are the winters can get gnarly when lake effect starts. major roads are almost always under construction (Rt. 28 was under construction the entire time I lived there). good sides? arts and humanities are strong, great museums, great cultural events, strangers will be really friendly. there was an amazing underground rave scene. college radio is awesome. around the cities are pretty left wing, as soon as you hit the country you are in "penn-tucky" though. there will always be some amount of corruption in the government due to big big families.
posted by evilmonk at 11:26 AM on October 9, 2017
posted by evilmonk at 11:26 AM on October 9, 2017
Hello! Coming to you live and direct from Pittsburgh!
It is an amazing place to raise children (literally Mr. Roger's and Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood). Citation: my five-year-old.
The public schools within the city are urban public schools, majority minority, and vary quite a lot. We have a magnet school system here where by you can apply via lottery to send your kid to a magnet school outside your zoned district. You get three choices and your rank them. It's highly likely that you will get your kid in to your first choice at Kindergarten, but getting into that system later, I can't speak to. The magnet schools are mostly K-5 and then 6-12 and cover a whole range of emphasis topics (my kid is in Kindergarten at the Chinese language magnet). You can see all the test scores and stats and things on the Pittsburgh board of ed website. Since my son goes to a K-5 foreign language magnet, he'll automatically get admitted to the 6-12 International Studies/IB academy. Magnets are not charters (some cities don't have this kind of system so I often have to explain what's going on here). Magnets are full public schools within the regular public system that do enrollments by lottery rather than by "just where you live" and have an emphasis subject or philosophy (there is a Montessori K-8 magnet, for instance). In all other regards they are just normal public schools.
The big problem in Pittsburgh public schools comes at the high school level. This is a small city with a small population and only a few public high schools (getting fed into by way more K-8s). Many of those high schools are pretty poor. A couple are okay. Then there are three magnet 6-12s which are quite good (Science and Technology, International Studies, and Performing Arts). Not All-White Suburb With A Bazillion Dollars level, but it's not the hell-hole the internet would have you believe. But the high school my neighborhood is zoned for is pretty terrible and the main reason I sent my son to a magnet rather than our neighborhood school (which is just fine and I would have been happy sending him there) is because entering a foreign language magnet at K gets him all set through grade 12.
The best part about raising kids here, though, is that the cost of living is very low and that means that we can do stuff with him. We can afford to enroll him in classes, have memberships to All The Museums, take trips, have adventures etc....
You'd likely be happy in Squirrell Hill, Point Breeze, North Oakland, Lawrenceville, Shadyside, Bloomfield or Highland Park. Oakland is where the universities are (CMU and Pitt are the biggest but Pittsburgh has a dozen more smaller institutions) and the neighborhoods around Oakland are the most diverse. You don't want to live in South Oakland because that's where the students live, but North Oakland where it borders Shadyside and Bloomfield is nice. There are three large parks: Schenley, Frick and Highland (Highland Park is smaller than the other two and less forest park and more park-park). Schenley borders Oakland and Squirell Hill. Frick borders Squirrell Hill and Point Breeze. Highland Park borders, uh, Highland Park and Morningside.
I'm a Pittsburgh lifer, though like most Pittsburghers rather parochially attached to my part of town (the East End). Feel free to AMA.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:34 AM on October 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
It is an amazing place to raise children (literally Mr. Roger's and Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood). Citation: my five-year-old.
The public schools within the city are urban public schools, majority minority, and vary quite a lot. We have a magnet school system here where by you can apply via lottery to send your kid to a magnet school outside your zoned district. You get three choices and your rank them. It's highly likely that you will get your kid in to your first choice at Kindergarten, but getting into that system later, I can't speak to. The magnet schools are mostly K-5 and then 6-12 and cover a whole range of emphasis topics (my kid is in Kindergarten at the Chinese language magnet). You can see all the test scores and stats and things on the Pittsburgh board of ed website. Since my son goes to a K-5 foreign language magnet, he'll automatically get admitted to the 6-12 International Studies/IB academy. Magnets are not charters (some cities don't have this kind of system so I often have to explain what's going on here). Magnets are full public schools within the regular public system that do enrollments by lottery rather than by "just where you live" and have an emphasis subject or philosophy (there is a Montessori K-8 magnet, for instance). In all other regards they are just normal public schools.
The big problem in Pittsburgh public schools comes at the high school level. This is a small city with a small population and only a few public high schools (getting fed into by way more K-8s). Many of those high schools are pretty poor. A couple are okay. Then there are three magnet 6-12s which are quite good (Science and Technology, International Studies, and Performing Arts). Not All-White Suburb With A Bazillion Dollars level, but it's not the hell-hole the internet would have you believe. But the high school my neighborhood is zoned for is pretty terrible and the main reason I sent my son to a magnet rather than our neighborhood school (which is just fine and I would have been happy sending him there) is because entering a foreign language magnet at K gets him all set through grade 12.
The best part about raising kids here, though, is that the cost of living is very low and that means that we can do stuff with him. We can afford to enroll him in classes, have memberships to All The Museums, take trips, have adventures etc....
You'd likely be happy in Squirrell Hill, Point Breeze, North Oakland, Lawrenceville, Shadyside, Bloomfield or Highland Park. Oakland is where the universities are (CMU and Pitt are the biggest but Pittsburgh has a dozen more smaller institutions) and the neighborhoods around Oakland are the most diverse. You don't want to live in South Oakland because that's where the students live, but North Oakland where it borders Shadyside and Bloomfield is nice. There are three large parks: Schenley, Frick and Highland (Highland Park is smaller than the other two and less forest park and more park-park). Schenley borders Oakland and Squirell Hill. Frick borders Squirrell Hill and Point Breeze. Highland Park borders, uh, Highland Park and Morningside.
I'm a Pittsburgh lifer, though like most Pittsburghers rather parochially attached to my part of town (the East End). Feel free to AMA.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:34 AM on October 9, 2017 [9 favorites]
My cousin has been raising her two daughters there (they are 2 and 4), and I haven't heard any complaints. I can send her this thread with your permission for comments.
I also know an actor who grew up there (and acutally had the great fortune of running into Mr. Rogers while his preschool was on a visit to PIttsburgh's art museum) and can also send it to him as well if you'd like the "I grew up there" perspective.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:45 AM on October 9, 2017
I also know an actor who grew up there (and acutally had the great fortune of running into Mr. Rogers while his preschool was on a visit to PIttsburgh's art museum) and can also send it to him as well if you'd like the "I grew up there" perspective.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:45 AM on October 9, 2017
I should add that we also do also have good neighborhood schools and if you like your neighborhood school (the Squirrel Hill neighborhood elementary school, Colfax, has a very good reputation as do several others around town) then you can just do it the old fashioned way. But you don't have to feel limited in your choice of neighborhood just because of school, because the magnets are also an option, which many parents (from all walks of life--this is not a white flight thing, my son's magnet school is 75% Black) do take.
Trulia, Great Schools etc... just do not address the reality of the achievement gap and the unique challenges of urban school districts, as you've probably surmised.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:56 AM on October 9, 2017
Trulia, Great Schools etc... just do not address the reality of the achievement gap and the unique challenges of urban school districts, as you've probably surmised.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:56 AM on October 9, 2017
We don't have kids, but as a Pittsburgher who moved to NYC and then came back (as we tend to boomerang), I will emphasize that by comparison our public transit may bring you to tears. We didn't have a car when we came back and initially picked our neighborhood as walkable to work until we could get at least one vehicle. (We came back when we were the only people left in our building that rented, and couldn't afford to buy. Which we could do here, because cost of living, holy cow.) Please don't let that dissuade you - that's me being Devil's Advocate for a city I truly love.
posted by librarianamy at 12:36 PM on October 9, 2017
posted by librarianamy at 12:36 PM on October 9, 2017
Another boomeranger like librarianamy here - born and raised in Pittsburgh, 10+ years in Chicago, and back in the Burgh for the last two years.
I have amazing memories of growing up in Pittsburgh; there's so much for kids to do. We have one of the best children's museums in the country, one of the best zoos, the National Aviary, two amusement parks within a few hours' drive (Kennywood and Idlewild), and so much more. Plus we're within driving distance to lots of beautiful hikes and nature.
When I moved back two years ago, I didn't have my drivers license, and I didn't get it for a year. As others have said, you NEED a car. The public transit here is improving, but still nowhere near a major city like NYC's.
That said, if you pick the right neighborhood, you can at least get away with walking for coffee in the morning or groceries or dining. Squirrel Hill, Point Breeze, and Shadyside are great for that.
PM me if you want more info! As a former big city dweller, I love being in a smaller city. Everything is so much cheaper and quieter, but you still get all the benefits of being in a city.
posted by anotheraccount at 1:34 PM on October 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have amazing memories of growing up in Pittsburgh; there's so much for kids to do. We have one of the best children's museums in the country, one of the best zoos, the National Aviary, two amusement parks within a few hours' drive (Kennywood and Idlewild), and so much more. Plus we're within driving distance to lots of beautiful hikes and nature.
When I moved back two years ago, I didn't have my drivers license, and I didn't get it for a year. As others have said, you NEED a car. The public transit here is improving, but still nowhere near a major city like NYC's.
That said, if you pick the right neighborhood, you can at least get away with walking for coffee in the morning or groceries or dining. Squirrel Hill, Point Breeze, and Shadyside are great for that.
PM me if you want more info! As a former big city dweller, I love being in a smaller city. Everything is so much cheaper and quieter, but you still get all the benefits of being in a city.
posted by anotheraccount at 1:34 PM on October 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
You do need a car unless you intend to live, work, and shop ONLY in the city and/or don't mind very long bus rides. I took the bus to/from work every day and could have gotten to the grocery store and Target on it, too, but on the weekend or any suburb-type shopping, you needed a car.
I think it would be a wonderful city to raise kids in, but I will say that, FWIW, the VAST majority of upper-middle-class folks with kids I encountered were sending them to private schools. Just my experience on the ground.
The other thing I will say since you're coming from a truly HUGE city is that, while I loved so many things about Pittsburgh, we decided to leave (for now) partly because we did feel like after a few years, we were doing the same festivals and events every year. I'm sure that was partly us being homebodies, but if you crave having the new and different all the time, it may feel very slow to you after NYC. It's also much more a city of neighborhoods than centralized. There is a joke that no one is willing to cross a river to go anywhere, even if it's only a 10-minute drive across the river, and it's kind of true. I lived there 5yrs and my "social area" was very much confined to 3 or so neighborhoods plus downtown for events. Of course, again, this will depend on how much you are raring to get out and explore.
Things I loved about Pittsburgh:
- four distinct seasons
-beautiful parks in the city
-truly beautiful and unique skyline, IMO
-parts of the city still feel very grotty which you either love or hate
-the charm of the small neighborhood aspect is that you do get very attached to your pub, your coffee shop, etc.
Pittsburgh is kind of the crossroads of Appalachia and the Midwest and the "Northeast" and is thus totally its own thing.
I would personally avoid Shadyside, it is the most gentrified and lol-white-people of neighborhoods in my experience. It IS walkable but lacks any of, again, the grottiness that has to charm you if you're going to enjoy the burgh.
posted by nakedmolerats at 4:15 PM on October 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think it would be a wonderful city to raise kids in, but I will say that, FWIW, the VAST majority of upper-middle-class folks with kids I encountered were sending them to private schools. Just my experience on the ground.
The other thing I will say since you're coming from a truly HUGE city is that, while I loved so many things about Pittsburgh, we decided to leave (for now) partly because we did feel like after a few years, we were doing the same festivals and events every year. I'm sure that was partly us being homebodies, but if you crave having the new and different all the time, it may feel very slow to you after NYC. It's also much more a city of neighborhoods than centralized. There is a joke that no one is willing to cross a river to go anywhere, even if it's only a 10-minute drive across the river, and it's kind of true. I lived there 5yrs and my "social area" was very much confined to 3 or so neighborhoods plus downtown for events. Of course, again, this will depend on how much you are raring to get out and explore.
Things I loved about Pittsburgh:
- four distinct seasons
-beautiful parks in the city
-truly beautiful and unique skyline, IMO
-parts of the city still feel very grotty which you either love or hate
-the charm of the small neighborhood aspect is that you do get very attached to your pub, your coffee shop, etc.
Pittsburgh is kind of the crossroads of Appalachia and the Midwest and the "Northeast" and is thus totally its own thing.
I would personally avoid Shadyside, it is the most gentrified and lol-white-people of neighborhoods in my experience. It IS walkable but lacks any of, again, the grottiness that has to charm you if you're going to enjoy the burgh.
posted by nakedmolerats at 4:15 PM on October 9, 2017 [1 favorite]
I liked the southside. I lived on the hill with big windows in my bedroom, and I could see EVERYTHING, rivers, roads, bridges, worlds. There was a church across the road and the bells would peal me awake. It's the most beautiful place I've ever lived, ever. The food is good. Sure, it snows, but it's so beautiful it doesn't matter.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:41 PM on October 9, 2017
posted by Don Pepino at 9:41 PM on October 9, 2017
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