Making plans as a sign of commitment
October 1, 2017 1:42 PM Subscribe
My boyfriend doesn't like to plan ahead and thinks the assumption should be that we don't have plans together unless stated otherwise. I like to know what I'm doing ahead of time, and if I don't then I'll either fill up my time with other things or feel like I'm on standby waiting to hear from him.
I see making concrete plans as a sign of interest and commitment, and also respect for another person's time. It's getting to the point where I'm always the one asking what he's up to later, and it makes me feel pushy. I don't expect activities or fancy dinners, just something as simple as him saying 'Want to hang out after work tomorrow?'
We spend an average of 5 nights a week together, including most of the weekend, which I realise is a lot. But most of this time together isn't scheduled until the late afternoon of the same day, at my initiation. We've talked about it once and he feels pressured if he has to check in with me or account for his time in advance.
Some extra context: I once got annoyed about cancelled plans, so now he says doesn't make plans until he's certain they'll go ahead. I have an anxious attachment style and tend to be on high alert for signs of relationship doubts or commitment issues. He has higher needs for time alone than I do and - while objectively I know this is normal and accept it - I sometimes feel it as rejection. His need for alone time seems to have increased recently, dealing with some stressors outside the relationship. We had some communication problems (previous question) that have improved remarkably.
So, a few questions: 1) How do we reach a compromise where the level of planning meets both our needs? 2) Is his approach a sign of lack of commitment to the relationship? 3) Why do you think this is this such a big deal to me? Can I reframe it to not be?
I see making concrete plans as a sign of interest and commitment, and also respect for another person's time. It's getting to the point where I'm always the one asking what he's up to later, and it makes me feel pushy. I don't expect activities or fancy dinners, just something as simple as him saying 'Want to hang out after work tomorrow?'
We spend an average of 5 nights a week together, including most of the weekend, which I realise is a lot. But most of this time together isn't scheduled until the late afternoon of the same day, at my initiation. We've talked about it once and he feels pressured if he has to check in with me or account for his time in advance.
Some extra context: I once got annoyed about cancelled plans, so now he says doesn't make plans until he's certain they'll go ahead. I have an anxious attachment style and tend to be on high alert for signs of relationship doubts or commitment issues. He has higher needs for time alone than I do and - while objectively I know this is normal and accept it - I sometimes feel it as rejection. His need for alone time seems to have increased recently, dealing with some stressors outside the relationship. We had some communication problems (previous question) that have improved remarkably.
So, a few questions: 1) How do we reach a compromise where the level of planning meets both our needs? 2) Is his approach a sign of lack of commitment to the relationship? 3) Why do you think this is this such a big deal to me? Can I reframe it to not be?
Best answer: if I don't then I'll either fill up my time with other things or feel like I'm on standby waiting to hear from him.
How does he react if you make plans without him, and he then wants to get together with you at the last minute? It could just be that he doesn't want to spend as much time with you as you do with him. That's not necessarily a sign he doesn't want to be with you at all, but he could just need more solo time or have other things he wants to give some priority to. If you need a lot of togetherness in a relationship, you might not be compatible for the long haul, but many couples do find a way to work this out.
I'd suggest backing off, making your own plans, and seeing how long it takes him to reach out to you. That will tell you a lot about where you stand. If you get the message that he wants to spend time with you but just has issues with making plans, you can negotiate about a fixed arrangement like the one clew talks about, where you're not left hanging and he's not pressured. I suspect it will probably involve less time together than you want right now, though, so you need to think about whether you can fill your time other ways, or want to find a partner who needs the same amount of couple time as you do.
posted by rpfields at 2:02 PM on October 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
How does he react if you make plans without him, and he then wants to get together with you at the last minute? It could just be that he doesn't want to spend as much time with you as you do with him. That's not necessarily a sign he doesn't want to be with you at all, but he could just need more solo time or have other things he wants to give some priority to. If you need a lot of togetherness in a relationship, you might not be compatible for the long haul, but many couples do find a way to work this out.
I'd suggest backing off, making your own plans, and seeing how long it takes him to reach out to you. That will tell you a lot about where you stand. If you get the message that he wants to spend time with you but just has issues with making plans, you can negotiate about a fixed arrangement like the one clew talks about, where you're not left hanging and he's not pressured. I suspect it will probably involve less time together than you want right now, though, so you need to think about whether you can fill your time other ways, or want to find a partner who needs the same amount of couple time as you do.
posted by rpfields at 2:02 PM on October 1, 2017 [18 favorites]
There are at least two things going on here. He's got a preference for more alone time than you have. And you're spending 5 nights a week with him. When is he alone?
The second thing is, of course he's not planning things. He doesn't need to. He's got a plan maker, and it's you.
Dial it back to one night a week where you have a standing thing that you do together. Trivia night, a movie,
Third, you're attachment style may be something you can work with/around, if you're willing to do the work to learn some skills. I recommend DBT therapy which is a skills based modality.
posted by bilabial at 2:48 PM on October 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
The second thing is, of course he's not planning things. He doesn't need to. He's got a plan maker, and it's you.
Dial it back to one night a week where you have a standing thing that you do together. Trivia night, a movie,
Third, you're attachment style may be something you can work with/around, if you're willing to do the work to learn some skills. I recommend DBT therapy which is a skills based modality.
posted by bilabial at 2:48 PM on October 1, 2017 [12 favorites]
Best answer: But most of this time together isn't scheduled until the late afternoon of the same day, at my initiation
but then that means you're not his standby option, he's yours! you have all day and the week leading up to the day to make cool plans with interesting people, and if nothing comes up, hey, there's always this guy - he never makes advance plans, so he's always free. or at least five times out of seven.
I completely understand that you'd rather he make an effort and reach out on his own than just hang around being on call for you. but it really does sound like you can set up whatever social things you want, and if anything falls through, not to worry, because the boyfriend's always got same-day availability.
so I'm not sure the lack of planning is any indicator of commitment problems. the lack of initiative and demonstrated interest is, though. if you stop calling for a week to give him space to reciprocate -- tell him you're going to, and why; tell him you still want to hang out like always and will say Yes to anything he proposes -- you'll find out what his deal is. if he doesn't call after that, don't look for a generous interpretation, there isn't one.
but do give him that chance, because he could in theory think that always saying Yes to your invitations is an obvious sign of commitment and figures he never has to ask because you'll do it. that would be a dick move on his part but wouldn't mean he doesn't care, just that he's lazy.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:37 PM on October 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
but then that means you're not his standby option, he's yours! you have all day and the week leading up to the day to make cool plans with interesting people, and if nothing comes up, hey, there's always this guy - he never makes advance plans, so he's always free. or at least five times out of seven.
I completely understand that you'd rather he make an effort and reach out on his own than just hang around being on call for you. but it really does sound like you can set up whatever social things you want, and if anything falls through, not to worry, because the boyfriend's always got same-day availability.
so I'm not sure the lack of planning is any indicator of commitment problems. the lack of initiative and demonstrated interest is, though. if you stop calling for a week to give him space to reciprocate -- tell him you're going to, and why; tell him you still want to hang out like always and will say Yes to anything he proposes -- you'll find out what his deal is. if he doesn't call after that, don't look for a generous interpretation, there isn't one.
but do give him that chance, because he could in theory think that always saying Yes to your invitations is an obvious sign of commitment and figures he never has to ask because you'll do it. that would be a dick move on his part but wouldn't mean he doesn't care, just that he's lazy.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:37 PM on October 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
Expecting your significant other to take the initiative to make plans, whether those plans are made 1 hour, 1 week, or 1 month ahead of time, is not unreasonable. That's part of the emotional labor that goes into making a relationship work. I don't think this is necessarily indicative of his commitment to you, but it does indicate that over the long haul he might end up leaving you to do most, if not all, of the emotional labor. Would that make you happy?
The way to come to a compromise is by both talking about your emotional needs during a non-emotional time (so not right after he felt pushed to make plans or you felt annoyed by not having plans made clear). When my boyfriend and I need to talk about something, we schedule time for it. That way no one feels caught by surprise and both of us can do some thinking about what we need to say before we talk.
So I would tell your boyfriend that you want to schedule some time to talk about how the two of you can get better at making plans with each other and giving each other the space you need for alone time, friend time, project time, whatever... Then come prepared to that conversation to share why it's important to you to make plans ahead of time and why it's important to have your boyfriend take some initiative. Be prepared to ask him how much alone time he needs a week. Then you both give a little.
If this is not something either of you is really good at, then you could engage the help of a counselor.
posted by brookeb at 3:40 PM on October 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
The way to come to a compromise is by both talking about your emotional needs during a non-emotional time (so not right after he felt pushed to make plans or you felt annoyed by not having plans made clear). When my boyfriend and I need to talk about something, we schedule time for it. That way no one feels caught by surprise and both of us can do some thinking about what we need to say before we talk.
So I would tell your boyfriend that you want to schedule some time to talk about how the two of you can get better at making plans with each other and giving each other the space you need for alone time, friend time, project time, whatever... Then come prepared to that conversation to share why it's important to you to make plans ahead of time and why it's important to have your boyfriend take some initiative. Be prepared to ask him how much alone time he needs a week. Then you both give a little.
If this is not something either of you is really good at, then you could engage the help of a counselor.
posted by brookeb at 3:40 PM on October 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think....this is not something you should just reframe. I think you should honestly look at the commitment you both have to your relationship and work out a plan which enables both of you to feel content. You seem to be bending over backwards here to accomodate his desire to have you around but not commit to having you around. And you're putting up with it by being available, at least 5 days a week, at the last minute.
The idea that he doesn't want to make plans unless he's sure they won't be broken is kind of nonsense. That is what making a plan means- barring major issues you stick to them. Of course emergencies come up but surely you're not objecting to those? or does he want to feel like being alone at the last minute? Cause I would say that is unreasonable. You can't be expected to just wait on the line until he feels the vibe.
I don't see this as about styles but about respect. There are ways for introverts to mark out their space which do not look like this.
posted by jojobobo at 4:26 PM on October 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
The idea that he doesn't want to make plans unless he's sure they won't be broken is kind of nonsense. That is what making a plan means- barring major issues you stick to them. Of course emergencies come up but surely you're not objecting to those? or does he want to feel like being alone at the last minute? Cause I would say that is unreasonable. You can't be expected to just wait on the line until he feels the vibe.
I don't see this as about styles but about respect. There are ways for introverts to mark out their space which do not look like this.
posted by jojobobo at 4:26 PM on October 1, 2017 [8 favorites]
Best answer: Hey, wreckofthehesperus - you've been working really hard at this relationship. I'm sorry you're still having difficulty.
I don't spend a lot of time on Ask these days, but when I do, your questions are ones that pique my interest. And so I have to say, I think you answered this question for yourself back in July -
You had to press him to agree that this was a committed relationship in June after five and half months of dating. Perhaps communication has gotten better since your last question, but this seems to be just more of the same. Your skills may have gotten better - but he still seems to have the same modus operandi:
Late update: he doesn't want to do the work. And more fundamental than that, he can't see that there's any work to be done (other than work by me to never mention a problem again). Rather, he would like everything to be perfectly happy at all times. At the next minor blip (my mild irritation over late cancellation of plans), he suggested breaking up.
I don't think you have to break up with him, though that may be what he's eventually going to earn with this behaviour - I think you two can can gently just drift away from each other.
He doesn't want what you want.
And if he does, he doesn't want to do the work that it takes to have it, especially since you're willing shoulder most of it.
To answer your question, you reach a compromise by pushing him to answer truthfully what he wants now, and long-term, or you figure what you're willing to settle for and for how long you'll be able to manage that before wanting the next level of commitment. And then renegotiate.
Yes, it's a sign of the lack of commitment to this relationship and the experience to maintain a long-term, mature one. As I said - he doesn't want what you want.
Why is it such a big deal? Because you want what you want. Whether or not it's because you had a previous break-up and need to make this one work because that just happens - please know that what you'd like is fine, and it just may not happen with this guy.
You can reframe this by continuing on this path and thinking that getting over this hurdle will take you toward the final stretch instead of the next hurdle.
Or, you can be okay with yourself, because your relationship goals are not out of this world, and realize that there will be someone out there who will not make you jump through these hoops, even if it takes a while. But now you've learned to spot the kind of passivity that is ultimately unsatisfying for you.
posted by peagood at 4:36 PM on October 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
I don't spend a lot of time on Ask these days, but when I do, your questions are ones that pique my interest. And so I have to say, I think you answered this question for yourself back in July -
You had to press him to agree that this was a committed relationship in June after five and half months of dating. Perhaps communication has gotten better since your last question, but this seems to be just more of the same. Your skills may have gotten better - but he still seems to have the same modus operandi:
Late update: he doesn't want to do the work. And more fundamental than that, he can't see that there's any work to be done (other than work by me to never mention a problem again). Rather, he would like everything to be perfectly happy at all times. At the next minor blip (my mild irritation over late cancellation of plans), he suggested breaking up.
I don't think you have to break up with him, though that may be what he's eventually going to earn with this behaviour - I think you two can can gently just drift away from each other.
He doesn't want what you want.
And if he does, he doesn't want to do the work that it takes to have it, especially since you're willing shoulder most of it.
To answer your question, you reach a compromise by pushing him to answer truthfully what he wants now, and long-term, or you figure what you're willing to settle for and for how long you'll be able to manage that before wanting the next level of commitment. And then renegotiate.
Yes, it's a sign of the lack of commitment to this relationship and the experience to maintain a long-term, mature one. As I said - he doesn't want what you want.
Why is it such a big deal? Because you want what you want. Whether or not it's because you had a previous break-up and need to make this one work because that just happens - please know that what you'd like is fine, and it just may not happen with this guy.
You can reframe this by continuing on this path and thinking that getting over this hurdle will take you toward the final stretch instead of the next hurdle.
Or, you can be okay with yourself, because your relationship goals are not out of this world, and realize that there will be someone out there who will not make you jump through these hoops, even if it takes a while. But now you've learned to spot the kind of passivity that is ultimately unsatisfying for you.
posted by peagood at 4:36 PM on October 1, 2017 [14 favorites]
Wait, what? Your boyfriend doesn't want to make plans with you?
1) How do we reach a compromise where the level of planning meets both our needs?
We? There's no we here; this is just you doing everything and him agreeing to whatever works for him.
2) Is his approach a sign of lack of commitment to the relationship? 3) Why do you think this is this such a big deal to me? Can I reframe it to not be?
Of course it's a lack of commitment. Someone who wants to be with you will make plans to be with you. It's a big deal because it's what normal people do, your boyfriend isn't, and you're spinning yourself into circles trying to convince yourself you're okay with this. Why should you be okay with this?
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:24 PM on October 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
1) How do we reach a compromise where the level of planning meets both our needs?
We? There's no we here; this is just you doing everything and him agreeing to whatever works for him.
2) Is his approach a sign of lack of commitment to the relationship? 3) Why do you think this is this such a big deal to me? Can I reframe it to not be?
Of course it's a lack of commitment. Someone who wants to be with you will make plans to be with you. It's a big deal because it's what normal people do, your boyfriend isn't, and you're spinning yourself into circles trying to convince yourself you're okay with this. Why should you be okay with this?
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:24 PM on October 1, 2017 [19 favorites]
Assuming this is the same relationship discussed in your previous Ask:
This seems a bit like a different facet of the same prism -- emotional labor imbalance, communication style mismatch, or what-you-will.
How did that last problem work out? Because WHETHER you were able to make progress on the previous issue is your best indicator of how you'll fare on this one.
If you've developed healthier, more equitable communication as a couple since then, you have a model for potential success. But if the "solution" for Previous!Issue was for you to bite your tongue, reduce your expectations, and redirect your sensitivity in the service of his needs, there's a harmful precedent here. A pattern is forming in which that outcome is always expected.
In the context of your current question, that would mean: you continue to make all the plans, and you continue to wait until the last minute to initiate, so he doesn't feel pinned-down. It would mean that if you don't make all the bids, or don't carefully script and time your bids to his liking, the plans don't happen at all.
"Five nights a week" can mean that he really does enjoy your company, and just doesn't want to stick his neck out/risk rejection on the minor level of "let's do a rain-check". It can also mean plain inertia, in that "mutual-fallback-plan" way that will leave you both feeling shortchanged in the long run.
Both fear-of-rejection and mutual-fallback-inertia are common pitfalls in relationships where one partner has minimal prior-relationship experience. The novice partner often has unrealistic expectations for the partner (Chillness, etc) and relationship itself (effortlessness, etc). The more-experienced partner often has unrealistic expectations for the novice partner. BUT LET ME BE CLEAR: unrealistic is
*I do believe gender dynamics play a role for some couples. In many aspects of our culture, "exclusive commitment" or "not cheating and not beating" is seen as the ultimate sacrifice a guy can possibly make, so his partner's job is "Be Grateful and Maintain Literally Everything Else."
posted by armeowda at 5:47 PM on October 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
This seems a bit like a different facet of the same prism -- emotional labor imbalance, communication style mismatch, or what-you-will.
How did that last problem work out? Because WHETHER you were able to make progress on the previous issue is your best indicator of how you'll fare on this one.
If you've developed healthier, more equitable communication as a couple since then, you have a model for potential success. But if the "solution" for Previous!Issue was for you to bite your tongue, reduce your expectations, and redirect your sensitivity in the service of his needs, there's a harmful precedent here. A pattern is forming in which that outcome is always expected.
In the context of your current question, that would mean: you continue to make all the plans, and you continue to wait until the last minute to initiate, so he doesn't feel pinned-down. It would mean that if you don't make all the bids, or don't carefully script and time your bids to his liking, the plans don't happen at all.
"Five nights a week" can mean that he really does enjoy your company, and just doesn't want to stick his neck out/risk rejection on the minor level of "let's do a rain-check". It can also mean plain inertia, in that "mutual-fallback-plan" way that will leave you both feeling shortchanged in the long run.
Both fear-of-rejection and mutual-fallback-inertia are common pitfalls in relationships where one partner has minimal prior-relationship experience. The novice partner often has unrealistic expectations for the partner (Chillness, etc) and relationship itself (effortlessness, etc). The more-experienced partner often has unrealistic expectations for the novice partner. BUT LET ME BE CLEAR: unrealistic is
"He should automatically know what the bare minimum looks like and he should exceed it by X%,"not
"He should be willing to do more than the bare minimum, and he should not sulk or act put-upon* at the mere mention of my own needs/feelings."The last thing I'll add: love involves a lot of teaching and learning, but it's never one partner's exclusive job to (1) TEACH the other partner how to be a partner, nor to (2) LEARN how to shrink your own needs down smaller than a pea so Partner can't even feel them under a mattress.
*I do believe gender dynamics play a role for some couples. In many aspects of our culture, "exclusive commitment" or "not cheating and not beating" is seen as the ultimate sacrifice a guy can possibly make, so his partner's job is "Be Grateful and Maintain Literally Everything Else."
posted by armeowda at 5:47 PM on October 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
"We spend an average of 5 nights a week together, including most of the weekend, which I realise is a lot." This is too much time to spend together with someone who doesn't live with you. (I mean, I do live with someone and I don't even see him as much as you see your bf.) that's just my personal opinion on it. I think everyone needs a night or two a week to just be at home and chill and do their chores and relax and not have to be "on" socially for a partner or friends. THE WAY THEY DO THAT IS MAKING PLANS IN ADVANCE.
If you see someone 6.5 out of 7 days a week every week, that might feel stifling especially if they LIKE being alone at times. He might feel stifled but he doesn't want to express that to you because he knows it will make you anxious. Or he might feel stifled but he sees it is easier for him to be lazy and let you initiate and ask all the time, and his concession to feeling stifled is not agreeing to plans in advance, since he figures you're going to hit him up over and over at the last minute anyway. From his perspective this looks easy: he never has to make plans, never has to set aside time for you in advance, never has to think about how to plan a date, never has to come up with anything special for you, but you still always make yourself available to hang out with him on short notice (his terms)...every night?
"We've talked about it once and he feels pressured if he has to check in with me or account for his time in advance. ... Some extra context: I once got annoyed about cancelled plans, so now he says doesn't make plans until he's certain they'll go ahead." These are cop outs. This is rude behavior. It's not unreasonable or unusual to be irritated by this behavior. I would be annoyed by a friend who did this all time, never mind a romantic partner. It takes five seconds to text, "hey I can't hang out tonight but how about dinner tomorrow?" or "sorry, I know we agreed to go see movie X tonight but it looks like tickets are sold out - how about in a few days?" These are basic social skills. People have shit to do and cannot always be available at the last minute to hang out or hook up; plans change sometimes; no normal person reacts to plans changing by REFUSING TO MAKE ANY.
Personally, in dating, I think it's important to check in with the other person, make a plan for when you'll see one another next, and communicate clearly about when you have time to get together vs when you don't. If you want that & if you think that would make you feel secure, please break up with this guy and find someone who is more active about making plans and more polite about being willing to do that in advance. He is being so irritatingly lazy and it is making you unhappy and I don't see why you should have to put up with it. Your expectations are not that high and you certainly shouldn't try to talk yourself out of them. There are men who will date you who will do this and much more without having to be constantly nagged about it.
posted by zdravo at 5:50 PM on October 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
If you see someone 6.5 out of 7 days a week every week, that might feel stifling especially if they LIKE being alone at times. He might feel stifled but he doesn't want to express that to you because he knows it will make you anxious. Or he might feel stifled but he sees it is easier for him to be lazy and let you initiate and ask all the time, and his concession to feeling stifled is not agreeing to plans in advance, since he figures you're going to hit him up over and over at the last minute anyway. From his perspective this looks easy: he never has to make plans, never has to set aside time for you in advance, never has to think about how to plan a date, never has to come up with anything special for you, but you still always make yourself available to hang out with him on short notice (his terms)...every night?
"We've talked about it once and he feels pressured if he has to check in with me or account for his time in advance. ... Some extra context: I once got annoyed about cancelled plans, so now he says doesn't make plans until he's certain they'll go ahead." These are cop outs. This is rude behavior. It's not unreasonable or unusual to be irritated by this behavior. I would be annoyed by a friend who did this all time, never mind a romantic partner. It takes five seconds to text, "hey I can't hang out tonight but how about dinner tomorrow?" or "sorry, I know we agreed to go see movie X tonight but it looks like tickets are sold out - how about in a few days?" These are basic social skills. People have shit to do and cannot always be available at the last minute to hang out or hook up; plans change sometimes; no normal person reacts to plans changing by REFUSING TO MAKE ANY.
Personally, in dating, I think it's important to check in with the other person, make a plan for when you'll see one another next, and communicate clearly about when you have time to get together vs when you don't. If you want that & if you think that would make you feel secure, please break up with this guy and find someone who is more active about making plans and more polite about being willing to do that in advance. He is being so irritatingly lazy and it is making you unhappy and I don't see why you should have to put up with it. Your expectations are not that high and you certainly shouldn't try to talk yourself out of them. There are men who will date you who will do this and much more without having to be constantly nagged about it.
posted by zdravo at 5:50 PM on October 1, 2017 [4 favorites]
Omg, you are me and you are in my relationship. It sucks. Your needs and wants are not outlandish; but they do seem to be incompatible with what your boyfriend wants. I've spent all day ruminating on this very topic and I think the best option is to leave and find someone else who's wants and needs align with yours better. But that's scary, I know. I've been telling myself that "I love him, but I don't love being in a relationship with him, and that's ok". I hope you find the clarity you need to do what's best for you.
posted by girlalex at 6:52 PM on October 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by girlalex at 6:52 PM on October 1, 2017 [6 favorites]
I do most of this kind of emotional labor in my marriage and it gets old.
But I also want to add-I have friends who I love who really want to have everything we do be scheduled and man, it’s exhausting. I have a pretty intense job-and sometimes having to plan all my free time is freaking exhausting. Like, most days I don’t want to plan anything. I want to hang out and eat some food and sit on my couch-so my friends who are scheduling details of Saturday’s drinks and next Monday’s lunch on a Tuesday-they wear me out. I don’t know how I’ll feel next Tuesday and I just can’t commit to planning every day.
So, I agree you deserve not to be doing all this work and I totally feel for you. But maybe explore whether it’s that you’re not ok just with assumptions about casual quiet hanging out-you need things to be Planned.
posted by purenitrous at 8:09 PM on October 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
But I also want to add-I have friends who I love who really want to have everything we do be scheduled and man, it’s exhausting. I have a pretty intense job-and sometimes having to plan all my free time is freaking exhausting. Like, most days I don’t want to plan anything. I want to hang out and eat some food and sit on my couch-so my friends who are scheduling details of Saturday’s drinks and next Monday’s lunch on a Tuesday-they wear me out. I don’t know how I’ll feel next Tuesday and I just can’t commit to planning every day.
So, I agree you deserve not to be doing all this work and I totally feel for you. But maybe explore whether it’s that you’re not ok just with assumptions about casual quiet hanging out-you need things to be Planned.
posted by purenitrous at 8:09 PM on October 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
Why do you think this is this such a big deal to me?
You said it yourself: I have an anxious attachment style and tend to be on high alert for signs of relationship doubts or commitment issues.
Can I reframe it to not be?
I don't know about that, but maybe, if you really think this is a negative with you (and that is a very big "if"), to help steer yourself away from that kind of attitude if (if!) you so wish, you could reframe it in a less neutrally euphemistic and more overtly negative way -- e.g. needy, jealous, suspicious, obsessive, aggressive, etc., etc., etc. -- just to remind yourself that these are not great things to be.
That said, just switching off those traits altogether could result in the exact opposite -- aloof, indifferent, devil-may-care, passive, etc. -- which are also not great things to be. Do these exact-opposite-to-you traits remind you of anyone, though? Perhaps reassess compatibility, and ask yourself whether you are the Paula Abdul or the MC Skat Kat in your relationship.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:19 PM on October 1, 2017
You said it yourself: I have an anxious attachment style and tend to be on high alert for signs of relationship doubts or commitment issues.
Can I reframe it to not be?
I don't know about that, but maybe, if you really think this is a negative with you (and that is a very big "if"), to help steer yourself away from that kind of attitude if (if!) you so wish, you could reframe it in a less neutrally euphemistic and more overtly negative way -- e.g. needy, jealous, suspicious, obsessive, aggressive, etc., etc., etc. -- just to remind yourself that these are not great things to be.
That said, just switching off those traits altogether could result in the exact opposite -- aloof, indifferent, devil-may-care, passive, etc. -- which are also not great things to be. Do these exact-opposite-to-you traits remind you of anyone, though? Perhaps reassess compatibility, and ask yourself whether you are the Paula Abdul or the MC Skat Kat in your relationship.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:19 PM on October 1, 2017
Why do you think this is this such a big deal to me? Can I reframe it to not be?
I know AskMe can be a bit quick to jumping to therapy, but like--these are the sorts of questions that AskMe cannot really adequately help you with, because they require ongoing discussion and work and ideally another party with some actual training on helping people with relationship issues. I have no idea why this is such a big deal to you; the best anybody here can do is speculate wildly on this kind of thing. But working with a therapist could potentially help, yes, with reframing--not necessarily to fix this relationship, but certainly at least to put you into a better position to find the person you actually are going to be happy with, ideally by becoming secure and happy independent of a relationship. So that's all very possible, it's just not possible to provide all the answers in the context of a web forum question.
posted by Sequence at 9:11 PM on October 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
I know AskMe can be a bit quick to jumping to therapy, but like--these are the sorts of questions that AskMe cannot really adequately help you with, because they require ongoing discussion and work and ideally another party with some actual training on helping people with relationship issues. I have no idea why this is such a big deal to you; the best anybody here can do is speculate wildly on this kind of thing. But working with a therapist could potentially help, yes, with reframing--not necessarily to fix this relationship, but certainly at least to put you into a better position to find the person you actually are going to be happy with, ideally by becoming secure and happy independent of a relationship. So that's all very possible, it's just not possible to provide all the answers in the context of a web forum question.
posted by Sequence at 9:11 PM on October 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
Best answer: You've gotten several charitable interpretations of this behavior from others, so I'm going to give you my uncharitable interpretation.
In my opinion, this sort of laissez-faire, low-effort, let-things-ride approach to the logistics of spending time together is not an acceptable way to conduct oneself in a relationship, particularly one less than a year old, and barring some special circumstance like an extremely demanding job or familial obligation, is indeed a sign he's not invested in you in the way you deserve. Less than a year old is sparkles time! Happy time! Can't get enough time! He won't make plans with you until he's "certain they'll go ahead" because one time you got upset about him breaking plans? That sounds to me like some tired, thin, emotionally manipulative BS.
Having read your previous question and now reading this one, it sounds to me like you are twisting yourself into knots attempting to get your needs met in this relationship. I suppose at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether you want to interpret this behavior charitably or uncharitably: the question is, can you accept a relationship where this behavior doesn't change? I wouldn't accept it. I would dump this guy and find someone thrilled to make plans with me, because to me, that is an important part of feeling truly wanted.
Anxious attachers tend to attract avoidants. You know your own attachment style, and it sounds to me like your guy is avoidant. If you were my best friend, I'd tell you to break up and spend the emotional energy you would have spent trying to fix this relationship on working on your own attachment stuff, so you can find someone as excited to make plans with you as you are to make plans with them, rather than someone who is yeah, uh-huh, okay, fine with you dropping by five nights a week.
posted by sevensnowflakes at 9:48 PM on October 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
In my opinion, this sort of laissez-faire, low-effort, let-things-ride approach to the logistics of spending time together is not an acceptable way to conduct oneself in a relationship, particularly one less than a year old, and barring some special circumstance like an extremely demanding job or familial obligation, is indeed a sign he's not invested in you in the way you deserve. Less than a year old is sparkles time! Happy time! Can't get enough time! He won't make plans with you until he's "certain they'll go ahead" because one time you got upset about him breaking plans? That sounds to me like some tired, thin, emotionally manipulative BS.
Having read your previous question and now reading this one, it sounds to me like you are twisting yourself into knots attempting to get your needs met in this relationship. I suppose at the end of the day, it doesn't matter whether you want to interpret this behavior charitably or uncharitably: the question is, can you accept a relationship where this behavior doesn't change? I wouldn't accept it. I would dump this guy and find someone thrilled to make plans with me, because to me, that is an important part of feeling truly wanted.
Anxious attachers tend to attract avoidants. You know your own attachment style, and it sounds to me like your guy is avoidant. If you were my best friend, I'd tell you to break up and spend the emotional energy you would have spent trying to fix this relationship on working on your own attachment stuff, so you can find someone as excited to make plans with you as you are to make plans with them, rather than someone who is yeah, uh-huh, okay, fine with you dropping by five nights a week.
posted by sevensnowflakes at 9:48 PM on October 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
I think he would drive me absolutely nuts. It's all well and good being spontaneous if you have no job, hobbies or friends to juggle, but most of us need to make plans if we want to fit everything in. I would be tempted to just to make whatever other plans you want to, and when he calls you up at the last moment, tell him truthfully that you are busy. He'll soon get fed up of never seeing you and hopefully get himself into gear to start making plans and sticking to them.
posted by intensitymultiply at 1:23 AM on October 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by intensitymultiply at 1:23 AM on October 2, 2017 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: We broke up. I raised the conversation about how much time each of us would ideally like to spend together in a relationship, he turned it into a huge argument and left my house. He didn't talk to me for four days. When we did eventually talk, we both agreed we shouldn't be together. I should have listened to you good people of AskMefi on my last question... at least it's done now.
posted by wreckofthehesperus at 6:59 PM on October 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by wreckofthehesperus at 6:59 PM on October 7, 2017 [1 favorite]
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2) Maybe, but maybe not; just being asked "eats up" psychic space if you need a lot. (I need a lot.) Maybe he's resistant because he's pushed, like a non-Newtonian fluid. I can't tell. Possibly he doesn't know either.
3) Doing all the asking and getting resistance would make anyone feel iffy, and anxious attachment ramps that up really fast, yes?
I am guessing that the two of you will need a system in which you don't have to ask for time every week, and he can think about his schedule and see a lot of blank time to breathe in.
posted by clew at 1:56 PM on October 1, 2017 [3 favorites]