Can you park in front of an in-line sidewalk ramp in a residential area?
September 18, 2017 10:44 AM Subscribe
I live in Denver and the city installed these sidewalk access ramps on the curbs in our neighborhood. Great, right? Except our house right at the end of where a street dead ends, so they put in an in-line ramp right in front of our house, like the place where we park our car. Is it illegal to block this?
This is basically what the in-line ramp looks like. It is directly in front of our house. I'm having trouble finding information that addresses this.
Shall we mention that the sidewalks are not actually wide enough to accommodate a wheelchair? (Not actually relevant except in my general disdain for this "improvement" that improved exactly nothing and may be making it illegal to park right outside my house.)
This is basically what the in-line ramp looks like. It is directly in front of our house. I'm having trouble finding information that addresses this.
Shall we mention that the sidewalks are not actually wide enough to accommodate a wheelchair? (Not actually relevant except in my general disdain for this "improvement" that improved exactly nothing and may be making it illegal to park right outside my house.)
Generally, it's legal to park in front of these assuming you're not in a marked crosswalk.
Shall we mention that the sidewalks are not actually wide enough to accommodate a wheelchair?
Shall we mention that people with baby strollers, motorized scooters, those who are moving materials on wheeled carts, and those with other mobility issues that aren't severe enough to require a wheelchair all benefit tremendously from these?
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 10:53 AM on September 18, 2017 [27 favorites]
Shall we mention that the sidewalks are not actually wide enough to accommodate a wheelchair?
Shall we mention that people with baby strollers, motorized scooters, those who are moving materials on wheeled carts, and those with other mobility issues that aren't severe enough to require a wheelchair all benefit tremendously from these?
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 10:53 AM on September 18, 2017 [27 favorites]
Best answer: I assume you are talking about a scenario like this? I suspect it is illegal to block this ramp. There is a crosswalk implied by the presence of the intersection, and especially now with the provision of a curb ramp on either end of the route across the street.
Per this PDF:
posted by misterbrandt at 1:02 PM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Per this PDF:
Denver Revised Municipal Code Section 54-1 provides the following definition for a crosswalk:and
Crosswalk shall mean that portion of a roadway included within the prolongation or connection of the lateral lines of sidewalks at intersections, or any portion of a roadway distinctly indicated for pedestrian
crossing by lines or other marking on the surface.
...
An unmarked crosswalk is a legal crosswalk that does not feature any traffc control markings. (page 4)
Section 54-458. Parking prohibited at specifed places.Per this site, you can call the Curb Ramp Hotline with any additional questions: 720-460-9055
It shall be unlawful for any person to stop or allow a vehicle to stand except when necessary to avoid confict with other traffc, or in compliance with law or the directions of a police offcer or traffc-control device in any of the following places:
(5)....On a crosswalk (page 6)
posted by misterbrandt at 1:02 PM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
By parking in front of it, you would render it useless, correct? Then I doubt parking there is legal. Even if it is legal, it's ethically suspect, in my opinion. You don't want to walk a few more yards to your house, but your decision forces those who need the ramp to go even farther out of their way. I know it sucks to lose your favorite parking spot, but as long as there are other places to park, you're not really entitled to this exact space.
posted by donnagirl at 1:11 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by donnagirl at 1:11 PM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
I suspect it is illegal to block this ramp. There is a crosswalk implied by the presence of the intersection, and especially now with the provision of a curb ramp on either end of the route across the street.
Yeah, I have friends who have been ticketed for parking in the unmarked crosswalk of a T intersection in Milwaukee. Which makes sense, but it's not immediately obvious that you're blocking anything. I imagine most locales have rules about that sort of thing.
A non-T intersection may be a different beast.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:18 PM on September 18, 2017
Yeah, I have friends who have been ticketed for parking in the unmarked crosswalk of a T intersection in Milwaukee. Which makes sense, but it's not immediately obvious that you're blocking anything. I imagine most locales have rules about that sort of thing.
A non-T intersection may be a different beast.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:18 PM on September 18, 2017
Assuming you're talking about a parking space on a public street, then no, you cannot park there anymore, whether or not it's technically legal. If you block the ramp with your car, people will not be able to use it. You'll have to park somewhere else or pay for a private parking space.
(There is a guy in my friend's neighborhood who'd always park in front of a ramp like the one you describe. The neighbors -- some of whom use walkers or have kids with strollers or whatever else -- started calling the cops every time he parked there. Also, everyone hated him. I know it's annoying to have to park somewhere else, but don't be that guy.)
posted by goodbyewaffles at 1:27 PM on September 18, 2017
(There is a guy in my friend's neighborhood who'd always park in front of a ramp like the one you describe. The neighbors -- some of whom use walkers or have kids with strollers or whatever else -- started calling the cops every time he parked there. Also, everyone hated him. I know it's annoying to have to park somewhere else, but don't be that guy.)
posted by goodbyewaffles at 1:27 PM on September 18, 2017
Response by poster: Thanks, I have a call into the ramp hotline to see if I can get a final word. I will say I have now talked to 3 different city employees who didn't know the answer and passed me on to someone else, so I'll see if I can get an official statement. However, everything you all supplied totally makes sense and we will not park there. For the record, we have not been blocking it.
I apologize if my comment about wheelchairs seemed flip...I actually meant the opposite in that I think their attempt at making the neighborhood ADA compliant is half-assed given the sad state of our narrow sidewalks. I would love to see an overhaul of our neighborhood's sidewalks that would make them usable by people in wheelchairs or scooters or even strollers. Currently, most non-walking pedestrians, or those with carts or strollers use the street. It's not great.
posted by LKWorking at 2:19 PM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
I apologize if my comment about wheelchairs seemed flip...I actually meant the opposite in that I think their attempt at making the neighborhood ADA compliant is half-assed given the sad state of our narrow sidewalks. I would love to see an overhaul of our neighborhood's sidewalks that would make them usable by people in wheelchairs or scooters or even strollers. Currently, most non-walking pedestrians, or those with carts or strollers use the street. It's not great.
posted by LKWorking at 2:19 PM on September 18, 2017 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Just had a very interesting conversation with a woman from the Curb Ramp Hotline and she confirmed that it could be technically construed as illegal to park in front of the ramp (for all the reasons listed above by you fine folks), the likelihood of getting ticketed for it is very slim since there isn't direct wording to enforce it. We will continue to not park near it!
Even more info if you've read this far!
She also said our neighborhood has what Denver is calling "Hollywood sidewalks," built in the 1950s and wildly out of compliance with ADA. However, it is technically the homeowner's responsibility to care for sidewalks and the improvements fall to them. Of course it's not very feasible to expect an entire neighborhood to simultaneously self-fund a sidewalk improvement plan. There's money in some of our city funds to address this and it's an ongoing issue citywide of how to practically remedy this larger situation.
posted by LKWorking at 2:53 PM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Even more info if you've read this far!
She also said our neighborhood has what Denver is calling "Hollywood sidewalks," built in the 1950s and wildly out of compliance with ADA. However, it is technically the homeowner's responsibility to care for sidewalks and the improvements fall to them. Of course it's not very feasible to expect an entire neighborhood to simultaneously self-fund a sidewalk improvement plan. There's money in some of our city funds to address this and it's an ongoing issue citywide of how to practically remedy this larger situation.
posted by LKWorking at 2:53 PM on September 18, 2017 [3 favorites]
Here's a decent summary of what's going on with Denver's horrible sidewalks, and an article from this week. More. Sidewalks are currently (and horrifyingly) the responsibility of adjacent property owners. So that's how we got here.
If it were me, I'd make sure my neighborhood is well-mapped with WALKscope Denver, and park a few feet away. I regularly pass a similar curb cut that's in a spot where it isn't likely to be used to cross a street, and isn't attached to decent sidewalks, but it's the closest curb cut to the entrance to a local park. It's often blocked by the car of somebody who's probably lived there since before the cut was installed, and it sucks if you're trying to get to the park entrance with wheels of any sort.
Denver's got totally different budgets for adding curb cuts to intersections and for installing/improving/maintaining sidewalks. The latter's close to nonexistent. I really hope Denver voters improve the situation in November.
posted by asperity at 2:59 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
If it were me, I'd make sure my neighborhood is well-mapped with WALKscope Denver, and park a few feet away. I regularly pass a similar curb cut that's in a spot where it isn't likely to be used to cross a street, and isn't attached to decent sidewalks, but it's the closest curb cut to the entrance to a local park. It's often blocked by the car of somebody who's probably lived there since before the cut was installed, and it sucks if you're trying to get to the park entrance with wheels of any sort.
Denver's got totally different budgets for adding curb cuts to intersections and for installing/improving/maintaining sidewalks. The latter's close to nonexistent. I really hope Denver voters improve the situation in November.
posted by asperity at 2:59 PM on September 18, 2017 [2 favorites]
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You can also mention at the time that the sidewalks aren't wide enough to accommodate a wheelchair, which is information they can note and use.
posted by barchan at 10:51 AM on September 18, 2017 [1 favorite]