I have gaps.

January 23, 2006 8:23 AM

Need help finding like-minded people with different skills. I have a couple of ideas for web-based businesses. Where are places to look for entrepreneurial-minded programmers/partners?

I know about programmer-for-hire type sites like elance. I'm looking for programmers (and other people) who are interested in starting something small. I'm not talking about the next google here, but perhaps an eventually profitable venture. Are there any web communities for finding programmers who are interested in being a part of the business, as opposed to a freelanced employee of the business?

posted by striker to work & money (17 comments total)

Generally, the good programmers have encountered this kind of thing before and we're a little skittish, which is why you won't find huge communities of programmers just frothing at the mouth to work our asses off for no pay whatsoever for a few months on the off chance that this thing could fly before one or the other of us runs it into the ground. Programmers are just like any other freelancer; we depend on cash flow, and if we have enough saved to get by for a few months, we'd rather take a vacation than work extra hard for you.

Let it be said now, to entrepreneurs of the world: If someone is willing to work for you for free, unless they're your friend and you've known/worked with them a long time, you will typically get precisely what you pay for: NOTHING.

So, no, there aren't any. As to how to find programmers for something, what you don't want to do is post to programmer forums; you'll get flamed out of existance. What you could do is write up a good, solid, well-researched business plan for each project, using the help of SCORE if you need it, apply for a SBA loan, and then actually pay the programmer.
posted by SpecialK at 8:37 AM on January 23, 2006

(Let's put it this way: An electrician would laugh at you if you called him up and asked him to come wire your new house for free, and you'd give him a % of the profits you'd make selling the house if you managed to sell it and make a profit on it. Why would you expect another professional, a programmer, to be different?)
posted by SpecialK at 8:39 AM on January 23, 2006

Freelance programmers might not go for it, but I'm sure there are plenty of bored, fully employed software engineers out there (like myself) who would be willing to work in their spare time as long as all of the legal bits are in place to not get screwed out of their effort.
posted by cmonkey at 8:51 AM on January 23, 2006

I disagree with SpecialK. I don't know of any such community, but I see a need for it. I'm a full time web developer, and I do a lot of small projects (e.g.) that interest me outside of work. Some of them involve other web designers and developers and I've sent and recieved quite a few "what do you think of this idea for a website" emails , but it would be really nice to have a larger community to discuss such ideas.

When I was doing more desktop software work, I subscribed to macsb, a Yahoo group "for small, independent Macintosh developers who want to talk with other developers about the business of Mac development." I know a few businesses have formed and merged as a result of that list. If someone started something similar for web development, I'd join.
posted by scottreynen at 8:54 AM on January 23, 2006

Thanks for the advice so far. Obviously what SpecialK has said does have merit, but I should point out that I see this more as an instance of finding someone with similarly aligned interests, much like what scottreynen was getting at. Money is not really the major issue I suppose, while they are designed to be profitable, it's more about filling a need that I see, and believe others will be very interested in. Since one very much has to do with building a community, I emailed user #1. Another has to do with the aftermarket car community, so I've been visiting and posting on the boards there, but to no avail. By the responses I'm guessing a mechanism to match people like this doesn't exist, other than a pounding the pavement of different online communities.
posted by striker at 9:09 AM on January 23, 2006

Send me a note: billiam at gmail dot com
posted by null terminated at 9:22 AM on January 23, 2006

You could take the longer route of broadening your social and business networks until you find a kindred spirit. A business partnership is almost as intimate as marriage, and think of the low success rate of online dating. (Not that there aren't some successes, but it takes many tries.)

Just dig in and get started on your projects, then ask around on related forums for help with specific needs as they arise. You might run in to a helpful soul who meshes with you, and you'll start to learn enough of the other skills that you'll be more valuable to your eventual team.

It's easier to get commitment for small things. Think again of romantic relationships, don't spook your partner by moving too quickly.
posted by voidcontext at 10:13 AM on January 23, 2006

One critical factor is letting people know what you bring to the project. An idea isn't enough! Do you have management experience, are you a designer, what projects have you completed successfully, do you have baking funds to pay for development and sundry expenses, etc. (what is a tech transfer specialist anyway...).

Others have already mentioned the need for a business plan, that is critical of course. I'm not sure how much it has to look like the business plan you would aim at venture capital... You might get away with something that doesn't look that much like a business plan, but you do need a pitch that will attract people, and you should be looking to attract people for real reasons - you aren't trying to start a new amway after all...

I believe the factors of success you have control over are quality and quantity of workmanship (management skill being part of workmanship here). Nonetheless you might consider two levels of business plan so that you could distribute one widely without revealing all of your trade secrets, and give another to individual interested parties on a case by case basis.
posted by Chuckles at 10:13 AM on January 23, 2006

Also, scottreynen has an interesting view of SpecialK's perfectly reasonable point. Individual contractors bring a lot of business experience (or professional experience maybe) along with their technical skill. When you hire one you are paying for both, and if you are trying to attract one you have to attract them at both levels (see answers to Are all artists rich flakes who don't want... especially mine of course :))
posted by Chuckles at 10:22 AM on January 23, 2006

Send me a note and tell me a bit about yourself
andrew at choufrine dot com
posted by ac at 10:46 AM on January 23, 2006

I'll add to the send me a note folks ...

steve at honestbleeps dot com ... I do have a full time job, but I do lots of side project stuff...
posted by twiggy at 10:54 AM on January 23, 2006

You sound like you are looking for a partner to start a project that may lead to profit, or that may be only a hobby. Write up your proposal, and submit it to MeFi projects. You never know who might be interested in working on it.
posted by theora55 at 11:00 AM on January 23, 2006

Do you have a "couple of ideas" or a well-thought through set of requirements?

If you don't have a firm requirements document, it means the programmer has to allocate the time and effort to do a use-case analysis, to do a requirements document, to do the overall system design, to do the major component architecture, to decide on an implementation platform and language (note that should come after architecture, but rarely does), design the minor components that make up the major components and how they all interact (object ownership issues, etc.), all before the programmer can write any real code.

(He can write code before doing this, or concurrently, but only if you're willing to throw out much of that code as a prototype that gets replaced as you and he learn more about the system.)

And that's just the design and programming side of things: it has nothing to do with a business plan or with management of the business.

You ask "Are there any web communities for finding programmers who are interested in being a part of the business, as opposed to a freelanced employee of the business?", which I'm guessing means you hope to get a programmer who will work for a share of (potential future) profits rather than cash money now.

The question the programmer has to ask, in this case, is what are you bringing to the table? Just some vague ideas, or an actual plans and experience? Are you, or will you bring in, a lawyer, an accountant, a systems admin (a programmer can work as a sysadmin, but he can't do that while programming) or is the programmer expected to dig into his pockets for that too? What about business expenses: a web site, a coloc box, software, hardware? Do you provide this, or does the programmer?

I'm not saying that not having any of this counts you out. What I am saying is that if you want to be taken seriously, you have to account for these things, up front. Either you say, "yes, I'm providing a lawyer and a coloc box and $50K in startup money and a business plan and a requirements document, and you provide the architecture and the coding" or you say, "I'm providing thus and so, and I expect you to provide ...."

But you have to lay it out, you have to at least give some idea of where you are and what the risks and rewards are, so that a programmer has some real idea of what he'd be getting into. Different programmers will have different levels of risk-adverseness, and different life situations. You have to lay out enough so the programmer knows what situation he'd be getting into.
posted by orthogonality at 11:12 AM on January 23, 2006

I, too, would like to be sent a note: bpt at tunes dot org.
posted by bpt at 12:00 PM on January 23, 2006

And jay at santa cruz tech dot com please.
posted by jayCampbell at 12:09 PM on January 23, 2006

Include me to, please. I'm as interested in how to get a group together to work on a project as anything. It's something I've thought about often, that it would be nice to get people together to work on projects of common interest, not neccessarily for profit. Even better if you can collect people who are close enough together to get together in person, to make a amateur moview for example, or just to meet and hash out details. jamesmessick at gmail dot com.
posted by JamesMessick at 12:48 PM on January 23, 2006

Two things: add me to the list:

killthiskid at gmail dot com

and:

Business plan, Business plan, Business plan. There are a multitude of reasons for a good business plan, but the most important one (I feel) is that it actually forces you to think about all aspects of your idea.

That and then when you ask questions like this, you have something to e-mail to people.
posted by killThisKid at 11:06 AM on January 24, 2006