Should I be financially sound, or should I be happy?
September 4, 2017 3:56 AM Subscribe
I have the opportunity for a new job that I've always wanted. Should I go for it despite a large drawback?
I currently work in education, and I do not enjoy what I'm doing at all. However, I make a decent living there. (If it helps, I live in the NYC area, and my pay is between $80-90,000.) A new job in the nonprofit sector has come up, and it's what I've always wanted to do with my life. The problem is a $30,000 drop in pay. I feel this is really a toss-up between happiness or money, and I don't know what to do. Any advice?
I currently work in education, and I do not enjoy what I'm doing at all. However, I make a decent living there. (If it helps, I live in the NYC area, and my pay is between $80-90,000.) A new job in the nonprofit sector has come up, and it's what I've always wanted to do with my life. The problem is a $30,000 drop in pay. I feel this is really a toss-up between happiness or money, and I don't know what to do. Any advice?
I agree with all of the above. You need to work out a budget to find out if you can survive on a drastically reduced income. And not just survive, either because if you're struggling to keep your head above water and miserable scrimping every month, well, there goes any happiness benefit you might have got which means the whole thing was really for nothing. Personally, theres no way I would do it. I'd take mskyles excellent advice and say if there's one job out there that sounds appealing, there'll be others as well that will also want to pay you what you're worth.
posted by Jubey at 4:38 AM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 4:38 AM on September 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
Your title asks if you should be "financially sound." Are you saying that by taking the new job you would be going into debt and falling in deeper all the time? If so, then you can't afford to take the new job.
On the other hand, if you can work out your life so that you can live affordably on the new income, then I would take it. Are there things that you don't want to forego, or can you change your life enough to fit the new budget?
posted by Vispa Teresa at 4:40 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, if you can work out your life so that you can live affordably on the new income, then I would take it. Are there things that you don't want to forego, or can you change your life enough to fit the new budget?
posted by Vispa Teresa at 4:40 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm taking a similar pay cut in two weeks, both for a job aligned with my values and to work closer to home. BUT I am married and with a few changes in our budget (most notably my youngest is out of full time day care) the impact is all on the nice to haves, not the essentials (essentials include retirement savings).
That drop sounds huge to me for NYC. Also, I totally know teachers don't really get swaths of time off exactly but two weeks' vacation is different from summers on preparation time. Non-profits aren't known for containing all the work to 9-5 either. And I don't know about there but here teachers get pensions.
I guess what I'm saying is, look at your total financial and other lifestyle elements really, really carefully.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:09 AM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
That drop sounds huge to me for NYC. Also, I totally know teachers don't really get swaths of time off exactly but two weeks' vacation is different from summers on preparation time. Non-profits aren't known for containing all the work to 9-5 either. And I don't know about there but here teachers get pensions.
I guess what I'm saying is, look at your total financial and other lifestyle elements really, really carefully.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:09 AM on September 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
The safest thing to do is to try to apply for a leave of absence to try out the job or technically you can resign and reapply within a five year period (assuming you work for the public schools).
However, NYC is tough and expensive and tenured jobs with pensions and more than two weeks vacation are hard to come by (although not impossible and everything depends on priorities).
On review, it's possible you are not a teacher, but if you are, these are the things to consider.
posted by bquarters at 5:39 AM on September 4, 2017
However, NYC is tough and expensive and tenured jobs with pensions and more than two weeks vacation are hard to come by (although not impossible and everything depends on priorities).
On review, it's possible you are not a teacher, but if you are, these are the things to consider.
posted by bquarters at 5:39 AM on September 4, 2017
I did this in my late 20s, from the entertainment industry to the non-profit world, also with a big pay cut. I think it's important to consider two things: where on the career ladder you are, and your housing situation.
I moved into an entry-level position so I had lots of room to move up in the relatively well paid world of Los Angeles non-profits. This meant I was eventually in the position to turn down a six-figure ED role. I assume in NYC it's also possible to do this. if you're taking that kind of pay cut to be near the top of the pile, that would be different.
The bigger thing is that back then the LA rental market was actually reasonable and I didn't have kids, students loans, or other big, fixed expenses.
In your case, I'd also consider your time. In my non-profit experience, everyone works long hours, which may or may not be seasonal. There's a sense of comraderie about this sometimes, but it doesn't matter that much when you're working non-stop for a month or two before a big event.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:45 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I moved into an entry-level position so I had lots of room to move up in the relatively well paid world of Los Angeles non-profits. This meant I was eventually in the position to turn down a six-figure ED role. I assume in NYC it's also possible to do this. if you're taking that kind of pay cut to be near the top of the pile, that would be different.
The bigger thing is that back then the LA rental market was actually reasonable and I didn't have kids, students loans, or other big, fixed expenses.
In your case, I'd also consider your time. In my non-profit experience, everyone works long hours, which may or may not be seasonal. There's a sense of comraderie about this sometimes, but it doesn't matter that much when you're working non-stop for a month or two before a big event.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:45 AM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Agree with above suggestions to create a budget for that salary and see what it looks like (remember to estimate taxes, social security, etc). Consider what you can cut and what adjustments you can make in your spending. Maybe also consider trying to negotiate the offer and what number might make the difference between financially stable and not.
But really, you're reducing the question to a false binary. You can say no to this job and keep looking for something that would be a better fit for you and would also pay you adequately.
I have lived in NYC with inadequate income. I was often late with the rent, almost had my electricity turned off at one point, racked up a LOT of overdraft fees and a big credit-card debt. Don't underestimate how stressful it is to be always just scraping by. (To be fair, I hadn't really figured out how to effectively manage my finances, but there still wasn't enough $$ to meet all of my obligations plus dress well enough for my role plus go out for coffee with friends now and then).
I would also caution you against assuming that this job will make you happy. I had a friend who left a solid corporate job to do non-profit work. She found herself in an unhealthy office environment with a very difficult boss and after a year went back to corporate work. I did the same thing myself - left a bank to work at a nonprofit and was wildly excited about it, until I found that I didn't seem to fit in with the team and didn't have the resources I needed to get the job done, and that being yelled was stressful. And my pay was crap, despite being on-call for weekends.
The actual work that you do has less impact on your happiness than things like the people you work with and the length of your commute. It does make sense to consider whether this job gets your foot in the door in a line of work that will pay off down the road. But I suspect the answer is to keep looking for a job you love which won't destabilize you financially.
posted by bunderful at 6:01 AM on September 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
But really, you're reducing the question to a false binary. You can say no to this job and keep looking for something that would be a better fit for you and would also pay you adequately.
I have lived in NYC with inadequate income. I was often late with the rent, almost had my electricity turned off at one point, racked up a LOT of overdraft fees and a big credit-card debt. Don't underestimate how stressful it is to be always just scraping by. (To be fair, I hadn't really figured out how to effectively manage my finances, but there still wasn't enough $$ to meet all of my obligations plus dress well enough for my role plus go out for coffee with friends now and then).
I would also caution you against assuming that this job will make you happy. I had a friend who left a solid corporate job to do non-profit work. She found herself in an unhealthy office environment with a very difficult boss and after a year went back to corporate work. I did the same thing myself - left a bank to work at a nonprofit and was wildly excited about it, until I found that I didn't seem to fit in with the team and didn't have the resources I needed to get the job done, and that being yelled was stressful. And my pay was crap, despite being on-call for weekends.
The actual work that you do has less impact on your happiness than things like the people you work with and the length of your commute. It does make sense to consider whether this job gets your foot in the door in a line of work that will pay off down the road. But I suspect the answer is to keep looking for a job you love which won't destabilize you financially.
posted by bunderful at 6:01 AM on September 4, 2017 [11 favorites]
Don't think of it in generalities, for starters, as happiness vs. money. We're supposed to say, life is short, be happy, follow your dreams, etc. etc.
Think of it in specifics, as a definite and known decrease in money vs. an indefinite and unknown increase in happiness. This job vs. this money. Your decision is based on the margins. Is the job situation making you miserable day-to-day? Can you still be happy and have a job you're not crazy about? What would the loss of $30,000 per year prevent you from doing? If other people are affected by your decision (like a spouse or other family members), what do they think?
posted by eeek at 6:21 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
Think of it in specifics, as a definite and known decrease in money vs. an indefinite and unknown increase in happiness. This job vs. this money. Your decision is based on the margins. Is the job situation making you miserable day-to-day? Can you still be happy and have a job you're not crazy about? What would the loss of $30,000 per year prevent you from doing? If other people are affected by your decision (like a spouse or other family members), what do they think?
posted by eeek at 6:21 AM on September 4, 2017 [4 favorites]
I found this article on The Dalai Lama's take on Happiness vs. Pleasure to be insightful.
I would encourage you to consider how financial stress can lead to unhappiness.
posted by Juniper Toast at 6:45 AM on September 4, 2017
I would encourage you to consider how financial stress can lead to unhappiness.
posted by Juniper Toast at 6:45 AM on September 4, 2017
I would also caution you against assuming that this job will make you happy. I had a friend who left a solid corporate job to do non-profit work. She found herself in an unhealthy office environment with a very difficult boss and after a year went back to corporate work. I did the same thing myself - left a bank to work at a nonprofit and was wildly excited about it, until I found that I didn't seem to fit in with the team and didn't have the resources I needed to get the job done, and that being yelled was stressful. And my pay was crap, despite being on-call for weekends.
There's also a lot of politics involved and boards can be a PITA or worse. You definitely don't want to give up a good thing for an unrealistic ideal. Non-profits are people, my friend!
posted by Room 641-A at 7:12 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's also a lot of politics involved and boards can be a PITA or worse. You definitely don't want to give up a good thing for an unrealistic ideal. Non-profits are people, my friend!
posted by Room 641-A at 7:12 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
This will be my last comment, but I didn't want my negative comments to stand without some balance.
On the plus side, if this is an entry level-ish position, it could really open a whole world to you.
It's been more than a couple of years, but in my experience non-profits are great places to learn on the job, and they can be great about mentoring and encouraging employees who show some passion. Probably so much more so if you are not a white man. I started in development by getting my foot in the door without any nfp experience and left years later turning down the job I mentioned above in a totally different segment of the non-profit world.
Also, you don't mention your age, but the long hours and shared goals can lead to great comraderie if you have the energy. I couldn't do it now, but then again I also couldn't do the crazy, pre-bubble intenet hours again, either.
So talk to them about how the organization promotes and presents opportunities to their employees; as long as you have your main expenses covered it could be worth tightening the belt for a couple of years if it meant a entire career path ahead of you.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:54 AM on September 4, 2017
On the plus side, if this is an entry level-ish position, it could really open a whole world to you.
It's been more than a couple of years, but in my experience non-profits are great places to learn on the job, and they can be great about mentoring and encouraging employees who show some passion. Probably so much more so if you are not a white man. I started in development by getting my foot in the door without any nfp experience and left years later turning down the job I mentioned above in a totally different segment of the non-profit world.
Also, you don't mention your age, but the long hours and shared goals can lead to great comraderie if you have the energy. I couldn't do it now, but then again I also couldn't do the crazy, pre-bubble intenet hours again, either.
So talk to them about how the organization promotes and presents opportunities to their employees; as long as you have your main expenses covered it could be worth tightening the belt for a couple of years if it meant a entire career path ahead of you.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:54 AM on September 4, 2017
The above advice to work out exactly how you are going to swing this is solid, but I just wanted to let you know that it can be done.
I do know someone in NYC who quit a corporate job two years ago for a dream job in the non-profit sector and took a $50,000 pay cut (so, pretty much cut her income in half). She was worried at first but it seems to have worked out well so far. The only particulars I know are that she is single, does not have a trust fund but may have had some money saved. She did move, but doesn't have a room-mate. In general she's a very responsible, realistic, frugal-minded person.
When she got the job, pretty much everyone who knew her thought she was made for the job and the job was made for her.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:33 AM on September 4, 2017
I do know someone in NYC who quit a corporate job two years ago for a dream job in the non-profit sector and took a $50,000 pay cut (so, pretty much cut her income in half). She was worried at first but it seems to have worked out well so far. The only particulars I know are that she is single, does not have a trust fund but may have had some money saved. She did move, but doesn't have a room-mate. In general she's a very responsible, realistic, frugal-minded person.
When she got the job, pretty much everyone who knew her thought she was made for the job and the job was made for her.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:33 AM on September 4, 2017
The math on this is brutal, I'm afraid. If you want to avoid being rent-burdened, which is a necessity for decent living, your rent should be only $1250-$1500/mo. for a $50K-$60K salary. That's a remote studio in Queens, or it's a roommate. (I can't imagine where the woman maggiemaggie mentioned is living, but it's not by a subway line.) And then everything else must be adjusted down proportionally.
I took an enormous pay cut out of a miserable private-sector job into Boston and a job paying a little more than you're proposing. In the end, while I could reconcile myself to giving up a lot of things, I couldn't make it work. I came back to NYC in your current salary range, got lucky with finding a below-market apartment, and was extra-thrifty until some raises came through and lifted me up a little bit further. Now, I'm hardly suffering compared to a lot of people in this town, and I do get to enjoy a nice thing from time to time, but I still get anxious occasionally. There really isn't a huge margin. I couldn't make it in Boston on your proposed salary and I certainly wouldn't try it in NYC. Quality of life only improves if you aren't constantly worrying about money.
posted by praemunire at 10:37 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I took an enormous pay cut out of a miserable private-sector job into Boston and a job paying a little more than you're proposing. In the end, while I could reconcile myself to giving up a lot of things, I couldn't make it work. I came back to NYC in your current salary range, got lucky with finding a below-market apartment, and was extra-thrifty until some raises came through and lifted me up a little bit further. Now, I'm hardly suffering compared to a lot of people in this town, and I do get to enjoy a nice thing from time to time, but I still get anxious occasionally. There really isn't a huge margin. I couldn't make it in Boston on your proposed salary and I certainly wouldn't try it in NYC. Quality of life only improves if you aren't constantly worrying about money.
posted by praemunire at 10:37 AM on September 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
The friend I mentioned lives in Bed-Stuy and takes two buses to work.
It definitely is not for the faint of heart, but it jumped out at me that I knew someone in the same situation who was able to make it work.
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:07 AM on September 4, 2017
It definitely is not for the faint of heart, but it jumped out at me that I knew someone in the same situation who was able to make it work.
posted by maggiemaggie at 11:07 AM on September 4, 2017
My spouse and I have made some major life decisions in recent years, and we assessed our options using a weighted pros/cons list - where pros/cons are assigned relative values of importance, and then they're added up. It helps break the situation down into more easily comparable components.
What kind of dislike do you have for your current job, anyway? Is it tolerable in an "I do my work and go home" kind of thing, or is it a soul-destroying, stress-coming-home-with-you, "I have to leave this job regardless" kind of thing? Because if it's BAD, then perhaps the new enticing job may be worth some significant lifestyle changes for yourself to be able to afford it.
posted by lizbunny at 7:51 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
What kind of dislike do you have for your current job, anyway? Is it tolerable in an "I do my work and go home" kind of thing, or is it a soul-destroying, stress-coming-home-with-you, "I have to leave this job regardless" kind of thing? Because if it's BAD, then perhaps the new enticing job may be worth some significant lifestyle changes for yourself to be able to afford it.
posted by lizbunny at 7:51 PM on September 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
Going from 80k to 30k in NYC voluntarily is a terrible idea. If you don't like your job, by all means find another, but one that pays you enough to live on. Taking that job will lead to poverty.
posted by KMoney at 8:52 PM on September 4, 2017
posted by KMoney at 8:52 PM on September 4, 2017
I also took a paycut for a job more aligned with my values, but it was nowhere in the region of 30-40% of my total income, which is what you're talking about here. I strongly discourage you from doing this, especially in such a rent-burdened city as NYC. I really hope you'll pass on this one and keep looking.
posted by widdershins at 1:12 PM on September 5, 2017
posted by widdershins at 1:12 PM on September 5, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
Secondly, if you take the job and find that you don't like your new work enough to justify the pay cut, can you go back to your old job?
Lastly, I think you'd be best off looking for work you like that also pays well. Your current job and this new job are not the only jobs/careers in the world.
posted by mskyle at 4:18 AM on September 4, 2017 [7 favorites]