If I'm already bi, does she still get a toaster?
July 4, 2017 7:27 PM Subscribe
I have a major, lingering crush on a close friend. I would like to tell her. Would that be horribly selfish? What do I say? Complications: long distance, she's gay and I'm bi (and female) but have almost only dated men.
I've known friend about a year and a half, and we used to hang out a couple of times a month - sometimes hiking, usually dinner and a couple drinks and then maybe an ice cream because we want to talk more, usually just the two of us. We went on a vacation last fall with the mutual pal who introduced us.
Several months ago, I got a job about a 1 hour flight / 5 hour drive away (she loaned me a vehicle to get to the onsite interview). I also broke up with the guy I'd been dating since shortly after I met her, because moving. We saw each other more like once or twice a week before I left, both suggesting things. For about six weeks before I left, I had an intense crush on her, like I haven't experienced in a decade. I'd catch myself giving her soppy looks, being jealous when she hung out with other lady-dating lady friends, had sexy dreams. But, I was moving and was just out of a relationship, so I decided to wait the crush out and not act on it.
Several weeks after I moved, I was still crushed out, and planned to stay with her when I visited friends in town and also confess my crush. The timing wasn't right (she was worn out from work) and the crush had worn off enough that I wasn't literally having a hard time keeping my hands off her, so I chickened out. We had a nice friend-visit.
So now it's two and a half months after that. We text daily, mostly cute animals and potential-impeachment gossip. I still like-like her. We skyped last weekend for three hours and she's so pretty. She's probably coming to visit me in the next month. I want to tell her in person that I love her as a friend, and that won't change, but also that I want to kiss her face and date her. Help me figure out how to phrase this (or convince me not to do it). I feel confident that if I got a no, I could put the crush down and move on.
Other facts: We are both mid-30s. I've identified as bi for over fifteen years, and have tried dating women and had less-intense crushes on some female friends, but it just never worked out and I've not made it to a third date with a woman. I have a dating/relationship/sex history with men that's pretty normal and non-traumatic. I know friend is looking for a partner generally - we've talked about it and she's bemoaned that all the women online are poly or vegan or early 20s or just blatantly not a good fit. She also has a demanding job with a call schedule that makes dating difficult (but weekend call also = pretty predictable 3-day weekends). We have generally compatible lifestyles and longer-term goals. Neither of our current jobs are very portable, but I would be happy to move back to her city in a year or two regardless (other friends, general city amenities). She would absolutely not make the first move if she felt the same way - she has apologized in the pre-crush past for causing other people to assume I'm a lesbian when we were hiking or whatever (I told her that I didn't care and also that she/we were safe in our very blue area vs. the small red town she grew up in).
I've known friend about a year and a half, and we used to hang out a couple of times a month - sometimes hiking, usually dinner and a couple drinks and then maybe an ice cream because we want to talk more, usually just the two of us. We went on a vacation last fall with the mutual pal who introduced us.
Several months ago, I got a job about a 1 hour flight / 5 hour drive away (she loaned me a vehicle to get to the onsite interview). I also broke up with the guy I'd been dating since shortly after I met her, because moving. We saw each other more like once or twice a week before I left, both suggesting things. For about six weeks before I left, I had an intense crush on her, like I haven't experienced in a decade. I'd catch myself giving her soppy looks, being jealous when she hung out with other lady-dating lady friends, had sexy dreams. But, I was moving and was just out of a relationship, so I decided to wait the crush out and not act on it.
Several weeks after I moved, I was still crushed out, and planned to stay with her when I visited friends in town and also confess my crush. The timing wasn't right (she was worn out from work) and the crush had worn off enough that I wasn't literally having a hard time keeping my hands off her, so I chickened out. We had a nice friend-visit.
So now it's two and a half months after that. We text daily, mostly cute animals and potential-impeachment gossip. I still like-like her. We skyped last weekend for three hours and she's so pretty. She's probably coming to visit me in the next month. I want to tell her in person that I love her as a friend, and that won't change, but also that I want to kiss her face and date her. Help me figure out how to phrase this (or convince me not to do it). I feel confident that if I got a no, I could put the crush down and move on.
Other facts: We are both mid-30s. I've identified as bi for over fifteen years, and have tried dating women and had less-intense crushes on some female friends, but it just never worked out and I've not made it to a third date with a woman. I have a dating/relationship/sex history with men that's pretty normal and non-traumatic. I know friend is looking for a partner generally - we've talked about it and she's bemoaned that all the women online are poly or vegan or early 20s or just blatantly not a good fit. She also has a demanding job with a call schedule that makes dating difficult (but weekend call also = pretty predictable 3-day weekends). We have generally compatible lifestyles and longer-term goals. Neither of our current jobs are very portable, but I would be happy to move back to her city in a year or two regardless (other friends, general city amenities). She would absolutely not make the first move if she felt the same way - she has apologized in the pre-crush past for causing other people to assume I'm a lesbian when we were hiking or whatever (I told her that I didn't care and also that she/we were safe in our very blue area vs. the small red town she grew up in).
I recommend telling her via text, email, or Skype. That way she has some time to process without the logistical considerations of, say, staying at your house during a visit.
posted by delight at 8:17 PM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by delight at 8:17 PM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I think this is a pretty good starting point:
"I love [you] as a friend, and that won't change, but also that I want to kiss [you]and date [you.]"
It's straightforward and considerate (I mean, maybe make it a little less glib but you know, it's a good template). One good thing to remember is that the way you say it is unlikely to make much difference in whether or not she reciprocates - that completely depends on how she feels. So the important thing is to make sure you're also letting her know you value her friendship.
Two things: 1. Be prepared for her to need to take a minute to think about it. She genuinely may not have thought about dating you, especially since it sounds like she thinks of you as mostly straight. 2. You *might* want to think about backup accommodations in case it doesn't go as you'd hoped.
On preview: I'm normally anti-text for this kind of thing but if you are worried about putting her on the spot when you're staying at her place, it might be a good idea. If you do decide to tell her in person in this trip, I'd do it as early in the trip as possible, so you don't get all nervous and blow it up in your mind too much.
But I definitely think you should just let her know how you feel and see how it goes from there. Good luck!
posted by lunasol at 8:23 PM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
"I love [you] as a friend, and that won't change, but also that I want to kiss [you]and date [you.]"
It's straightforward and considerate (I mean, maybe make it a little less glib but you know, it's a good template). One good thing to remember is that the way you say it is unlikely to make much difference in whether or not she reciprocates - that completely depends on how she feels. So the important thing is to make sure you're also letting her know you value her friendship.
Two things: 1. Be prepared for her to need to take a minute to think about it. She genuinely may not have thought about dating you, especially since it sounds like she thinks of you as mostly straight. 2. You *might* want to think about backup accommodations in case it doesn't go as you'd hoped.
On preview: I'm normally anti-text for this kind of thing but if you are worried about putting her on the spot when you're staying at her place, it might be a good idea. If you do decide to tell her in person in this trip, I'd do it as early in the trip as possible, so you don't get all nervous and blow it up in your mind too much.
But I definitely think you should just let her know how you feel and see how it goes from there. Good luck!
posted by lunasol at 8:23 PM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think you should tell her and see what happens! Yes, long distance sucks, especially for a new relationship, but you guys are not dramatically far away, and if you're able to plan friend visits, date visits would be equally feasible.
She does know you identify as bi, right? I think lunasol has a good point that she might not have thought about you as a dating prospect if she mainly thinks of you as straight, especially given her comments about others assuming you're a lesbian. Do you two chat about queer stuff, and if not, could that be something to introduce into a conversation, even if you're already out to her, as a bit of a reminder of this important thing about you? Like chat about going to Pride, or gay ladies on TV, or whatever low pressure daily life or pop culture topic would be normal for you.
Anyway though, regardless of whether that's really an issue, I also think that telling her before this visit rather than in person might be a good idea. It could be weird and uncomfortable for her to have this conversation during a visit if she doesn't reciprocate or isn't sure. Especially in the latter case, some time to think before seeing you in person might be really important. Personally, I would do Skype in your situation. You can see each others' faces, there's some nonverbal communication... text seems not serious enough and email seems too serious.
Good luck!!
posted by snorkmaiden at 9:40 PM on July 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
She does know you identify as bi, right? I think lunasol has a good point that she might not have thought about you as a dating prospect if she mainly thinks of you as straight, especially given her comments about others assuming you're a lesbian. Do you two chat about queer stuff, and if not, could that be something to introduce into a conversation, even if you're already out to her, as a bit of a reminder of this important thing about you? Like chat about going to Pride, or gay ladies on TV, or whatever low pressure daily life or pop culture topic would be normal for you.
Anyway though, regardless of whether that's really an issue, I also think that telling her before this visit rather than in person might be a good idea. It could be weird and uncomfortable for her to have this conversation during a visit if she doesn't reciprocate or isn't sure. Especially in the latter case, some time to think before seeing you in person might be really important. Personally, I would do Skype in your situation. You can see each others' faces, there's some nonverbal communication... text seems not serious enough and email seems too serious.
Good luck!!
posted by snorkmaiden at 9:40 PM on July 4, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've said it before and I'll say it again: electronic communication sucks for delivering messages with emotional heft. This is absolutely the kind of thing that I would never do any way other than face to face.
If making a long trip specifically for that purpose seems kind of over-the-top to you, well there's your naturally evolved counterbalance to your major lingering crush.
posted by flabdablet at 10:38 PM on July 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
If making a long trip specifically for that purpose seems kind of over-the-top to you, well there's your naturally evolved counterbalance to your major lingering crush.
posted by flabdablet at 10:38 PM on July 4, 2017 [1 favorite]
I know friend is looking for a partner generally - we've talked about it and she's bemoaned that all the women online are poly or vegan or early 20s or just blatantly not a good fit.
I will agree with others that this kind of message is best done in person, but I will also say that sometimes things can work out quite okay if they're delivered, say, after midnight while watching anime in Rabbit and after you've both had too many drinks. Especially, from my experience, if the other party has just spent a great deal of time complaining about how nobody else available for them to be dating is the sort of person they want to date, and none of the things they're complaining about apply to you.
This may all turn out to be very difficult and it may not end well and you might have regrets afterwards, but to some degree that's true of all relationships. If you're interested in dating this particular woman and not just a woman LIKE this one--whatever happens next will not kill you, and it could go very nicely.
She's probably coming to visit me in the next month. I want to tell her in person that I love her as a friend, and that won't change, but also that I want to kiss her face and date her.
So, here's the only hitch: If she's come to visit and she's staying with you and she's there to see you personally? I mean, going by my past experience, I'd say there's pretty good odds that she wants this to end in smorching. But the other side of this is that if she is NOT feeling the same way, if she's had to travel to get there, then she's kind of stuck for the rest of the visit.
I'd suggest just waiting for the end of the visit, but then you lose the whole visit.
Much as it goes against the common wisdom for these sorts of things, in this particular example and as a 35-year-old woman who is in my current relationship because my partner did the aforementioned drunk anime night confession, I would suggest just biting the bullet and saying something ASAP. (Not that I'd overtly recommend drunk anime night confessions as a means to the end, but I'm just saying, Yuri on Ice makes for a long-ish marathon but is completely doable on one Saturday night.)
posted by Sequence at 12:01 AM on July 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
I will agree with others that this kind of message is best done in person, but I will also say that sometimes things can work out quite okay if they're delivered, say, after midnight while watching anime in Rabbit and after you've both had too many drinks. Especially, from my experience, if the other party has just spent a great deal of time complaining about how nobody else available for them to be dating is the sort of person they want to date, and none of the things they're complaining about apply to you.
This may all turn out to be very difficult and it may not end well and you might have regrets afterwards, but to some degree that's true of all relationships. If you're interested in dating this particular woman and not just a woman LIKE this one--whatever happens next will not kill you, and it could go very nicely.
She's probably coming to visit me in the next month. I want to tell her in person that I love her as a friend, and that won't change, but also that I want to kiss her face and date her.
So, here's the only hitch: If she's come to visit and she's staying with you and she's there to see you personally? I mean, going by my past experience, I'd say there's pretty good odds that she wants this to end in smorching. But the other side of this is that if she is NOT feeling the same way, if she's had to travel to get there, then she's kind of stuck for the rest of the visit.
I'd suggest just waiting for the end of the visit, but then you lose the whole visit.
Much as it goes against the common wisdom for these sorts of things, in this particular example and as a 35-year-old woman who is in my current relationship because my partner did the aforementioned drunk anime night confession, I would suggest just biting the bullet and saying something ASAP. (Not that I'd overtly recommend drunk anime night confessions as a means to the end, but I'm just saying, Yuri on Ice makes for a long-ish marathon but is completely doable on one Saturday night.)
posted by Sequence at 12:01 AM on July 5, 2017 [8 favorites]
I feel like, even though as said emotional communication is worse over the internet, you should tell her before the visit. Because otherwise it's easy for her to feel unsafe or lied to if she wants a friend hangout and you're (subconsciously or not) wanting more.
I faced a sort of similar issue recently (although with less of a friendship history and me being male). I was originally going to go with meeting up as friends, not telling her unless there was chemistry in person. Reasoning I didn't want to spot her and might not be relevant. However it (sort of accidentally) came up in an internet conversation that we both had crushes on each other. I felt much better about the meeting after this because I was going in without a "hidden agenda."
There's also a question to ask yourself of what do you want out of this relationship. Do you want something committed and long term? Is it OK if it's just an occasional fling?
In general I feel in life there are all kinds of long term relationship issues, which persist and cause problems, just because people want to avoid one awkward conversation.
posted by Erberus at 1:10 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
I faced a sort of similar issue recently (although with less of a friendship history and me being male). I was originally going to go with meeting up as friends, not telling her unless there was chemistry in person. Reasoning I didn't want to spot her and might not be relevant. However it (sort of accidentally) came up in an internet conversation that we both had crushes on each other. I felt much better about the meeting after this because I was going in without a "hidden agenda."
There's also a question to ask yourself of what do you want out of this relationship. Do you want something committed and long term? Is it OK if it's just an occasional fling?
In general I feel in life there are all kinds of long term relationship issues, which persist and cause problems, just because people want to avoid one awkward conversation.
posted by Erberus at 1:10 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'd tell her. It sounds like she may feel the same way about you, or might start to once she realises she can mentally see you that way. Your script sounds good.
Maybe organise a trip to her but stay with a different friend and tell her in person? That way if she wants space you can go straight back to other friends' place.
Sure long distance sucks, but so do drawn out crushes on a friend.
posted by hotcoroner at 1:28 AM on July 5, 2017
Maybe organise a trip to her but stay with a different friend and tell her in person? That way if she wants space you can go straight back to other friends' place.
Sure long distance sucks, but so do drawn out crushes on a friend.
posted by hotcoroner at 1:28 AM on July 5, 2017
It is problematic to make a move on someone while they're visiting unless you can provide a safe and reasonable out for them if they're made uncomfortable by it (such as - you sleeping somewhere else while they're in town.) I would advise either doing it remotely before she arrives or at the very tail end of her trip where she can leave if she's not into it or needs some space to process.
posted by notorious medium at 7:11 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by notorious medium at 7:11 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Tell her.
Also, for her as a lesbian, she's not likely to make the first move because you don't have much history of dating women. It doesn't mean she's not interested, and yeah, it's messed up, but it's all the more reason you should tell her.
If you don't ask, she can't say yes.
I'd say tell her before she gets to town, and make clear that you're interested but it's okay if she's not.
Good luck!
posted by bile and syntax at 12:55 PM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, for her as a lesbian, she's not likely to make the first move because you don't have much history of dating women. It doesn't mean she's not interested, and yeah, it's messed up, but it's all the more reason you should tell her.
If you don't ask, she can't say yes.
I'd say tell her before she gets to town, and make clear that you're interested but it's okay if she's not.
Good luck!
posted by bile and syntax at 12:55 PM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
Tell her before she stays with you: "You know, if we lived in the same city, I think I might want to date you."
If you're ever going to tell her, do it beforehand. It would just be too problematic to do it in the middle of her stay, if it isn't mutual. And as someone else said, if you do it at the end and it is mutual, that could be frustrating.
posted by John Cohen at 1:58 PM on July 5, 2017
If you're ever going to tell her, do it beforehand. It would just be too problematic to do it in the middle of her stay, if it isn't mutual. And as someone else said, if you do it at the end and it is mutual, that could be frustrating.
posted by John Cohen at 1:58 PM on July 5, 2017
There's two different approaches recommend here, I think it's better not to put your heart on your sleeve using social media, it's just too easy to get put off, unless your intuition really tells you that your friend really feels the same way about you. You know that timing is important.
Arrange some more time together, and do more of the fun hiking activities and nice dinners. Try some subtle flirting, some eye contact but maybe not too soppy. Tell your feelings when you feel the time is right (usually after late night drinks, or maybe while viewing scenic hiking vistas.) If you get demurred, just be gracious and stay good friends with a straight face, while your soul feels that exquisite sorrow of unrequited love. But hope for the best, she likes you.
posted by ovvl at 6:04 PM on July 5, 2017
Arrange some more time together, and do more of the fun hiking activities and nice dinners. Try some subtle flirting, some eye contact but maybe not too soppy. Tell your feelings when you feel the time is right (usually after late night drinks, or maybe while viewing scenic hiking vistas.) If you get demurred, just be gracious and stay good friends with a straight face, while your soul feels that exquisite sorrow of unrequited love. But hope for the best, she likes you.
posted by ovvl at 6:04 PM on July 5, 2017
Response by poster: I texted, to allow some processing time if needed / to prevent myself just putting it off indefinitely. She's not up for long distance. It is a relief to have it out and that she was kind about it. Thanks y'all.
posted by momus_window at 6:30 PM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by momus_window at 6:30 PM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
How to go about it depends a lot on both your personalities. If it were me, asking via text if she might be interested in dating would probably make the most sense in that situation, to keep from putting her on the spot in person, but different people would respond better to in-person conversation. I recommend against flirting to test the waters; that would be a good plan for an acquaintance, but since this is a close friend you want to keep even if she's not romantically interested, it has the potential to really mess things up in a way that a low-key, "it's cool if you don't want to change our relationship" conversation would not.
posted by metasarah at 8:13 PM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]