I don't know if I want to be in this relationship anymore.
July 1, 2017 12:36 PM Subscribe
I've been with my partner for 16 years and I don't know if I want to be in this relationship anymore. How can I tell?
We have a kid, who is great. My partner has been a stay at home parent for the last 10 years, despite admitting that they don't enjoy it. I make enough to support us, and we live a comfortable, relatively simple life. They take night classes and are working towards an accreditation that is likely to lead to employment. I feel like I've spent most of my time in our relationship (and my adult life) being concerned about my partner's happiness and well-being, because they are perennially unhappy. They say that they want to be with me, and that they don't think that they could find happiness outside of our relationship. But being with me has its own difficulties.
My partner has not really identified anything besides me (and maybe our kid) that makes them happy. They have been in counselling for about a year, but this hasn't really changed. We moved to a new place a few years ago and they have not made any friends aside from people I know. My partner is a bit atypical, but so lovely and wonderful that I don't know exactly why it hasn't worked out. I haven't made a lot of friends, either, it may be something about the area. I said last year that I was feeling bored generally and that I wanted to do more (like maybe travel, try new activities, something!), and my partner was hurt by that. Most week-ends I plan what we will do, who will come over, etc.
Also, my libido is much lower than my partner's, and they have told me they would like to have sex more often but I frequently find sex painful. This is after many months of trying different things, seeing various doctors, and even when I'm really turned on it still hurts like hell. This in turn affects my partner because their self-esteem is partly tied up with satisfying me sexually. When we try (unsuccessfully) to do it, my partner winds up feeling like shit and being mopey for the rest of the day, which makes me feel guilty. We have tried "alternatives" to our normal sexual routine, but they are difficult and generally uncomfortable and mostly haven't worked out. I am seeing a physician about the issue, but I also am starting to feel like my partner's nearly complete dependence on me for their happiness is too much and that this is yet another manifestation of it. My partner worries that their inability to get it together and become productive (as they see it) has affected my attraction to them. I don't consciously feel that way but being with someone who depends on me so much may have had an impact on me.
My partner cooks dinner, washes dishes a few days a week and washes and dries the laundry, and handles most (but not all) of our kid's activities. I have a mysterious chronic pain issue but aside from earning a living I take care of our kid while my partner takes evening classes, cook breakfast for us most days, make my own lunch, fold and iron my own clothes. I'm not completely dependent on them. I'm always surprised though, that my partner seems to do nothing at all during the day when our kid is at school or at night when they are often up past midnight. It's a mystery what they do with their time. Anything beyond daily stuff that needs to be done takes near-constant reminders or I do it myself, which then makes my partner feel bad. Sometimes I can't hide my disbelief that my partner has not accomplished anything for weeks at a time and this hurts their feelings and they say I am being demeaning. I can see how my frustration might feel demeaning to them, although I never yell or outright insult my partner.
My partner is my best friend and I love them dearly. I don't want to put my kid through a divorce. We talk openly all the time, we're generally kind to each other, we enjoy each other's company. My partner doesn't want to leave me, and I don't want to leave them. But I think I'm feeling the strain of being my partner's near sole source of emotional support over the many years, and it's only become moreso with time. I don't want to be with anyone else (and with my painful-sex issue I'm not sure I could be). Do we just stay together as "friends" now? While my partner tries to stifle their desire and need for sexual intimacy? They say they are happy to do this and in general their self-sacrifice has mostly been beneficial for me throughout my life. Why stop now, right?
Because it's standard ask.metafilter advice: We've been to see a couples' counsellor, who basically said we were very good at communicating with each other, we clearly care about each other a lot, and that she didn't see any need for us to continue with the sessions. She gave me the Gottman book but we don't fight, we don't stonewall, insult or belittle each other. I went to counselling on my own, and that counsellor also told me she thought I didn't need counselling.
My partner has not really identified anything besides me (and maybe our kid) that makes them happy. They have been in counselling for about a year, but this hasn't really changed. We moved to a new place a few years ago and they have not made any friends aside from people I know. My partner is a bit atypical, but so lovely and wonderful that I don't know exactly why it hasn't worked out. I haven't made a lot of friends, either, it may be something about the area. I said last year that I was feeling bored generally and that I wanted to do more (like maybe travel, try new activities, something!), and my partner was hurt by that. Most week-ends I plan what we will do, who will come over, etc.
Also, my libido is much lower than my partner's, and they have told me they would like to have sex more often but I frequently find sex painful. This is after many months of trying different things, seeing various doctors, and even when I'm really turned on it still hurts like hell. This in turn affects my partner because their self-esteem is partly tied up with satisfying me sexually. When we try (unsuccessfully) to do it, my partner winds up feeling like shit and being mopey for the rest of the day, which makes me feel guilty. We have tried "alternatives" to our normal sexual routine, but they are difficult and generally uncomfortable and mostly haven't worked out. I am seeing a physician about the issue, but I also am starting to feel like my partner's nearly complete dependence on me for their happiness is too much and that this is yet another manifestation of it. My partner worries that their inability to get it together and become productive (as they see it) has affected my attraction to them. I don't consciously feel that way but being with someone who depends on me so much may have had an impact on me.
My partner cooks dinner, washes dishes a few days a week and washes and dries the laundry, and handles most (but not all) of our kid's activities. I have a mysterious chronic pain issue but aside from earning a living I take care of our kid while my partner takes evening classes, cook breakfast for us most days, make my own lunch, fold and iron my own clothes. I'm not completely dependent on them. I'm always surprised though, that my partner seems to do nothing at all during the day when our kid is at school or at night when they are often up past midnight. It's a mystery what they do with their time. Anything beyond daily stuff that needs to be done takes near-constant reminders or I do it myself, which then makes my partner feel bad. Sometimes I can't hide my disbelief that my partner has not accomplished anything for weeks at a time and this hurts their feelings and they say I am being demeaning. I can see how my frustration might feel demeaning to them, although I never yell or outright insult my partner.
My partner is my best friend and I love them dearly. I don't want to put my kid through a divorce. We talk openly all the time, we're generally kind to each other, we enjoy each other's company. My partner doesn't want to leave me, and I don't want to leave them. But I think I'm feeling the strain of being my partner's near sole source of emotional support over the many years, and it's only become moreso with time. I don't want to be with anyone else (and with my painful-sex issue I'm not sure I could be). Do we just stay together as "friends" now? While my partner tries to stifle their desire and need for sexual intimacy? They say they are happy to do this and in general their self-sacrifice has mostly been beneficial for me throughout my life. Why stop now, right?
Because it's standard ask.metafilter advice: We've been to see a couples' counsellor, who basically said we were very good at communicating with each other, we clearly care about each other a lot, and that she didn't see any need for us to continue with the sessions. She gave me the Gottman book but we don't fight, we don't stonewall, insult or belittle each other. I went to counselling on my own, and that counsellor also told me she thought I didn't need counselling.
I don't understand the concept of you two having excellent communication coupled with you censoring your speech about your feelings and experiences in order to avoid hurting your partner's feelings. If you're not censoring and just going ahead with talking about these things, if the communication is so great, how is it that the issues don't get worked out in one way or another, but in a way that actually resolves them?
posted by janey47 at 12:56 PM on July 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by janey47 at 12:56 PM on July 1, 2017 [9 favorites]
#1 - Work with a doctor to understand why sex hurts so much. Fix it, if it is fixable. Have some honest conversations with your partner about you can both have a satisfying, enjoyable sex life. If this hard, see #3.
#2 - Use those good communication skills to talk about what makes each of you feel loved. I'm assuming your partner's answer is sex. What's yours? Show you partner that you care about their needs (see #1) and ask them to show that they care about yours.
#3 - If you can't do this, then you are starting to see better where your relationship is in trouble. For example, if your partner is hurt when you say you want to try new things, they may be hearing that you are bored with them. This is a deeper level communication - sometimes no matter how good the words are, if you can't feel them in your heart or if your heart (and past experience) tells you something different, it doesn't work. In this case, you might try to find a couples therapist who works in emotionally focused therapy. Different from Gottman, it focuses on the deeper emotional connection and the question of whether you each feel that you can count on your partner to be accepting, loving and available.
posted by metahawk at 1:07 PM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
#2 - Use those good communication skills to talk about what makes each of you feel loved. I'm assuming your partner's answer is sex. What's yours? Show you partner that you care about their needs (see #1) and ask them to show that they care about yours.
#3 - If you can't do this, then you are starting to see better where your relationship is in trouble. For example, if your partner is hurt when you say you want to try new things, they may be hearing that you are bored with them. This is a deeper level communication - sometimes no matter how good the words are, if you can't feel them in your heart or if your heart (and past experience) tells you something different, it doesn't work. In this case, you might try to find a couples therapist who works in emotionally focused therapy. Different from Gottman, it focuses on the deeper emotional connection and the question of whether you each feel that you can count on your partner to be accepting, loving and available.
posted by metahawk at 1:07 PM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]
Being the sole source of emotional support for anyone can be draining. I hope you are taking care of yourself through this! If your partner's therapist has been unable to help them, it may be time to find a new therapist for them, and for the two of you as a couple. Good communication is only one small part of a successful relationship. It sounds like you are both unhappy, for different reasons, and this is what needs to be addressed in couples' counseling.
This may be a reach, but have you considered possibly opening up the relationship? If your partner is not getting their sexual needs met, how would you feel about them meeting those needs with another person? It may be that once they find sources of satisfaction beyond you and your kid, that they may start to shift the patterns of codependency and depression that therapy can't solve.
posted by ananci at 1:18 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
This may be a reach, but have you considered possibly opening up the relationship? If your partner is not getting their sexual needs met, how would you feel about them meeting those needs with another person? It may be that once they find sources of satisfaction beyond you and your kid, that they may start to shift the patterns of codependency and depression that therapy can't solve.
posted by ananci at 1:18 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
My partner has been a stay at home parent for the last 10 years, despite admitting that they don't enjoy it
then how did this happen, why does it continue to happen? You don't indicate that you pressured them into it but 10 years is a long time for two people to collaborate in maintaining an untenable situation that is primarily bad for your partner and secondarily bad for you. If the night school thing works out and they're able to get a job, you can contemplate ending the relationship without as many concerns about guilt, spousal/partner support, and all that. do you think they might choose not to find a job specifically to avoid that possibility?
I'm always surprised though, that my partner seems to do nothing at all during the day when our kid is at school or at night when they are often up past midnight. It's a mystery what they do with their time.
this supports the point made above that your therapy has been bad. because if communication were as good as your therapists imagined, it wouldn't be a mystery what they do all day, because you could just ask them. and it wouldn't sound accusatory and they could articulate an answer.
moping around after sex that hurts you because it doesn't do anything for their ego is unacceptable. some would say unforgivable. but it sounds like they have pinpointed the problem already ( My partner worries that their inability to get it together and become productive (as they see it) has affected my attraction to them) -- for "attraction" read "love and patience and happiness in the partnership," but that's what they probably mean; they are expressing guilt about the physical part because that's the only part that's clearly not their fault (or yours) and not the result of any deliberate action from either of you, unlike everything else. but they are acknowledging the real problem, just in a roundabout and defensive way.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:32 PM on July 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
then how did this happen, why does it continue to happen? You don't indicate that you pressured them into it but 10 years is a long time for two people to collaborate in maintaining an untenable situation that is primarily bad for your partner and secondarily bad for you. If the night school thing works out and they're able to get a job, you can contemplate ending the relationship without as many concerns about guilt, spousal/partner support, and all that. do you think they might choose not to find a job specifically to avoid that possibility?
I'm always surprised though, that my partner seems to do nothing at all during the day when our kid is at school or at night when they are often up past midnight. It's a mystery what they do with their time.
this supports the point made above that your therapy has been bad. because if communication were as good as your therapists imagined, it wouldn't be a mystery what they do all day, because you could just ask them. and it wouldn't sound accusatory and they could articulate an answer.
moping around after sex that hurts you because it doesn't do anything for their ego is unacceptable. some would say unforgivable. but it sounds like they have pinpointed the problem already ( My partner worries that their inability to get it together and become productive (as they see it) has affected my attraction to them) -- for "attraction" read "love and patience and happiness in the partnership," but that's what they probably mean; they are expressing guilt about the physical part because that's the only part that's clearly not their fault (or yours) and not the result of any deliberate action from either of you, unlike everything else. but they are acknowledging the real problem, just in a roundabout and defensive way.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:32 PM on July 1, 2017 [21 favorites]
What would make YOU happy? Not what would make your partner or even your kid happy: how about YOU? Do YOU want to stay in this relationship or do YOU want out? I suspect that part of your problem is that you've been bending over backward to be supportive of your partner for so far and so long that you've gotten used to totally ignoring your own wants and needs.
posted by easily confused at 2:18 PM on July 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by easily confused at 2:18 PM on July 1, 2017 [10 favorites]
I'm wondering whether you told the counselors the things you put in your question. If you did, I can't see why they'd say you don't need any counseling. I would try again, with different counselors.
When I read your question, I saw you as deeply unhappy, and your partner as possibly depressed. I think you need a different counselor. And if the doctor you are seeing for the painful sex issue doesn't help, you need a different doctor. That's a big issue, apart from the libido differences and the other relationship issues.
posted by tuesdayschild at 2:20 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
When I read your question, I saw you as deeply unhappy, and your partner as possibly depressed. I think you need a different counselor. And if the doctor you are seeing for the painful sex issue doesn't help, you need a different doctor. That's a big issue, apart from the libido differences and the other relationship issues.
posted by tuesdayschild at 2:20 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]
+1 you need to go back to couples therapy. There's a lot to talk about. I wouldn't give up before trying to talk all of this out.
posted by salvia at 2:38 PM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by salvia at 2:38 PM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]
my partner winds up feeling like shit and being mopey for the rest of the day
Punishing you for not giving them the sex they want is abuse. Grownups are capable of mitigating their feelings, including disappointment, and should have enough empathy to understand that someone else's physical pain trumps their ouchy feelings. Moping is a form of gaslighting. You aren't obligated to try to have sex with this person when you don't want to or in ways you don't want to, and you're not obligated to have sex with someone who uses it to hurt you and make you feel bad.
You are allowed to be done with this relationship if you want to be.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:54 PM on July 1, 2017 [25 favorites]
Punishing you for not giving them the sex they want is abuse. Grownups are capable of mitigating their feelings, including disappointment, and should have enough empathy to understand that someone else's physical pain trumps their ouchy feelings. Moping is a form of gaslighting. You aren't obligated to try to have sex with this person when you don't want to or in ways you don't want to, and you're not obligated to have sex with someone who uses it to hurt you and make you feel bad.
You are allowed to be done with this relationship if you want to be.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:54 PM on July 1, 2017 [25 favorites]
But I think I'm feeling the strain of being my partner's near sole source of emotional support over the many years, and it's only become moreso with time.
This is a boundary issue. You need to make it clear that you cannot be the sole carrier of this load and that your partner must look after their own emotional health by making other friends, finding a support group or - hey! - treating their depression.
I don't want to be with anyone else (and with my painful-sex issue I'm not sure I could be). Do we just stay together as "friends" now? While my partner tries to stifle their desire and need for sexual intimacy?
You don't gender your partner in this question or define "sex" at all but there are a million routes to sexual intimacy that don't involve, for example, penetration. Unless this is a general painful arousal disorder, there is a middle ground here somewhere.
Your problems in here are not intractable. But you will both need to be willing to make changes and to meet each other half way.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:24 PM on July 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is a boundary issue. You need to make it clear that you cannot be the sole carrier of this load and that your partner must look after their own emotional health by making other friends, finding a support group or - hey! - treating their depression.
I don't want to be with anyone else (and with my painful-sex issue I'm not sure I could be). Do we just stay together as "friends" now? While my partner tries to stifle their desire and need for sexual intimacy?
You don't gender your partner in this question or define "sex" at all but there are a million routes to sexual intimacy that don't involve, for example, penetration. Unless this is a general painful arousal disorder, there is a middle ground here somewhere.
Your problems in here are not intractable. But you will both need to be willing to make changes and to meet each other half way.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:24 PM on July 1, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you do not want to be in your relationship, which is what you said, then you do not have to be in the relationship. I would sit down with your partner poste haste and communicate this instinct. It is real, and you will deal with the feelings one way or another. You can be supportive and caring as you say this. You should mention the very clear sacrifices your partner has made on your behalf, and insist that you want to do what is best for the relationship, even if that means parting ways. Your partner is chronically unhappy. It is starting to affect your well-being. Adults can and do end relationships when they sour or become intolerable. I am not telling you that you should end it, but you need to consider your true feelings and consider ending the relationship.
Your partner sounds like he or she suffers from depression and he or she should seek treatment. Individual therapy, medication, and meditation are all ways to learn how to cope with and handle depression. Please suggest this to your partner.
You have been very careful to obscure your partner's gender, and while I am certain that your relationship can be just as fulfilling and, well, filled with potholes if it is a same-sex relationship, I want to give you some insight into how you might understand the issues you are facing of you are female and your partner is male (jumping to this conclusion because you said that you have mismatched libidos and are the one with the lower libido, because you said your partner's self-esteem is linked to their sense that you are sexually satisfied, and because your medical issue that causes intercourse to be painful makes me think of a common female sexual pathology; I could be wrong about both your genders and am only including this part because it might be useful if my guess is right). OK..if he's the man in your life, then he is making a pretty big sacrifice taking the role of stay-at-home parent and supporting you in your career. Men are judged by what they do professionally, and having a low-status job or no job at all is probably central to his low self-esteem. If you don't believe me, consider his status on the dating market if you should part ways. If you are progressive and open-minded, it's easy to believe that there is something noble and just in his decision to support you. But most people, many of whom might call themselves progressive and open-minded, would cast judgment on him for that choice. Your guy knows this, and it probably crushes his ego until it is the consistency of a fine powder. I would suggest having a separate conversation about how he sees himself and who he wants to be. He can still set and achieve professional goals while taking on the role of primary caretaker of your child.
Here is a bit on your sexual issues. You are telling us that you are not in the mood. He feels put off and wants to know he pleases you, and that you desire him, most likely. Your medical issue makes you less in the mood, and it appears that you have what author David Halberstam said about the US-backed puppet government in South Vietnam prior to all-out war breaking out there. Because the South Vietnamese puppet government leader was so unpopular, the US was obliged to provide foreign aid to keep the regime afloat. But US aid only made the South Vietnamese President more unpopular, which...caused the US to send more aid. Halberstam recounts a conversation that someone who thought they had a good grasp of the situation had with a Confician scholar. "It's a vicious circle!" the commenter offers. "No," the scholar says, "It's a downward spiral." If you are feeling pressure to perform when you are not in the mood, then you should communicate this clearly and ask him what he thinks you two might do to resolve the issue. Perhaps you can have less full-blown intercourse and more heavy petting. Perhaps you can just talk about what you like sexually, share your fears and anxieties about a bedroom situation where, frankly, neither one of you seems to be content, or talk about times when you felt more satisfied and fulfilled in the sex you were having. Whatever you do, please take note that he is placing a premium on pleasing you based on what you are telling us, and that from a certain perspective, that is actually kind of sweet. Please ask him if he feels anger or resentment over how things are going in the bedroom. Be prepared to hear a "yes" and then encourage him to talk about where those feelings come from and how you two might resolve them. If my guess was correct and you are female, then the odds are terrific that you know what it's like to receive unwanted sexual attention. If he's male, he may be suffering from the other side of that coin, where he either receives little to no sexual attention, or only receive negative sexual attention. A few positive comments here and there can go a long way to resolving this male pathology. Talk to him about what you like about his body, and encourage him to admire and appreciate your body if you are comfortable doing so. Stop having the kind of sex that hurts and ask him to explore some alternatives that you haven't tried yet, such as roleplay, sharing and perhaps acting out fantasies, and mutual masturbation. Invest on see toys that trigger pleasure instead of pain if you are willing. Focus on building the experiences together that are pleasurable, because you are both wired for pleasure as well as the disappointments you are struggling through. (Added note here: if he admits that your bedroom issues are causing resentment, then I'd urge you to entertain scheduling or allowing him regularly to schedule time during which you can be "intimate" and have a conversation as two adults about what that means. If you become anxious at the prospect of penetrative intercourse, start with something low stakes, like making out or just lying together naked. It is likely very important to him that he has some measure of control over the kind and frequency of sex that you are having. Doing this, and reassuring him that you really want to be generous with your body and will start by being generous with your time will go a long way toward soothing some legitimate hurt feelings that he is carrying that are making things worse for both of you in your relationship.)
Ask him what he does in the time that he is away from you. Ask him if he has a substance abuse problem. It's another pathology that afflicts a lot of men, and if he is self-medicating, work with him so that he can overcome that particular self-destructive behavior.
You are not pleased with your partner, and it is affecting how you view the relationship. You say you are unsure about whether to continue, but you also say that your partner does not want out of the relationship and that you do not want to leave your partner. That is a good sign, because I don't see a single issue that is not extremely common most relationships. You have been together for a long time. Perhaps your partner is in the midst of a mid-life crisis. That is a turbulent period during which you figure out who you are and who you want to be. When you approach the end of this phase, you should be making decisions that show that you are a mature responsible adult. There is a lot of immature bullshit that comes out as the phase progresses, but it is a normal part of the process.
Lastly, as someone who is a big believer in marriage and the possibility that it entails of transforming two selfish, miserable, and lonely people into a loving unit where there is give and take, I wanted to share some wisdom that was given to me when I sought counseling to deal with some difficult emotions that were working against my marriage: when you are married (whether you are or not), as much as possible, try not to think in terms of you getting your way or your partner getting their way. You have to do what is best for the marriage. Sometimes that means calling it quits. You have obviously spent a lot of time and effort trying to patch things up. That is commendable. But you may still decide that you need to part ways, and that can actually be a loving decision. Good luck.
posted by Mr. Fig at 4:35 PM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Your partner sounds like he or she suffers from depression and he or she should seek treatment. Individual therapy, medication, and meditation are all ways to learn how to cope with and handle depression. Please suggest this to your partner.
You have been very careful to obscure your partner's gender, and while I am certain that your relationship can be just as fulfilling and, well, filled with potholes if it is a same-sex relationship, I want to give you some insight into how you might understand the issues you are facing of you are female and your partner is male (jumping to this conclusion because you said that you have mismatched libidos and are the one with the lower libido, because you said your partner's self-esteem is linked to their sense that you are sexually satisfied, and because your medical issue that causes intercourse to be painful makes me think of a common female sexual pathology; I could be wrong about both your genders and am only including this part because it might be useful if my guess is right). OK..if he's the man in your life, then he is making a pretty big sacrifice taking the role of stay-at-home parent and supporting you in your career. Men are judged by what they do professionally, and having a low-status job or no job at all is probably central to his low self-esteem. If you don't believe me, consider his status on the dating market if you should part ways. If you are progressive and open-minded, it's easy to believe that there is something noble and just in his decision to support you. But most people, many of whom might call themselves progressive and open-minded, would cast judgment on him for that choice. Your guy knows this, and it probably crushes his ego until it is the consistency of a fine powder. I would suggest having a separate conversation about how he sees himself and who he wants to be. He can still set and achieve professional goals while taking on the role of primary caretaker of your child.
Here is a bit on your sexual issues. You are telling us that you are not in the mood. He feels put off and wants to know he pleases you, and that you desire him, most likely. Your medical issue makes you less in the mood, and it appears that you have what author David Halberstam said about the US-backed puppet government in South Vietnam prior to all-out war breaking out there. Because the South Vietnamese puppet government leader was so unpopular, the US was obliged to provide foreign aid to keep the regime afloat. But US aid only made the South Vietnamese President more unpopular, which...caused the US to send more aid. Halberstam recounts a conversation that someone who thought they had a good grasp of the situation had with a Confician scholar. "It's a vicious circle!" the commenter offers. "No," the scholar says, "It's a downward spiral." If you are feeling pressure to perform when you are not in the mood, then you should communicate this clearly and ask him what he thinks you two might do to resolve the issue. Perhaps you can have less full-blown intercourse and more heavy petting. Perhaps you can just talk about what you like sexually, share your fears and anxieties about a bedroom situation where, frankly, neither one of you seems to be content, or talk about times when you felt more satisfied and fulfilled in the sex you were having. Whatever you do, please take note that he is placing a premium on pleasing you based on what you are telling us, and that from a certain perspective, that is actually kind of sweet. Please ask him if he feels anger or resentment over how things are going in the bedroom. Be prepared to hear a "yes" and then encourage him to talk about where those feelings come from and how you two might resolve them. If my guess was correct and you are female, then the odds are terrific that you know what it's like to receive unwanted sexual attention. If he's male, he may be suffering from the other side of that coin, where he either receives little to no sexual attention, or only receive negative sexual attention. A few positive comments here and there can go a long way to resolving this male pathology. Talk to him about what you like about his body, and encourage him to admire and appreciate your body if you are comfortable doing so. Stop having the kind of sex that hurts and ask him to explore some alternatives that you haven't tried yet, such as roleplay, sharing and perhaps acting out fantasies, and mutual masturbation. Invest on see toys that trigger pleasure instead of pain if you are willing. Focus on building the experiences together that are pleasurable, because you are both wired for pleasure as well as the disappointments you are struggling through. (Added note here: if he admits that your bedroom issues are causing resentment, then I'd urge you to entertain scheduling or allowing him regularly to schedule time during which you can be "intimate" and have a conversation as two adults about what that means. If you become anxious at the prospect of penetrative intercourse, start with something low stakes, like making out or just lying together naked. It is likely very important to him that he has some measure of control over the kind and frequency of sex that you are having. Doing this, and reassuring him that you really want to be generous with your body and will start by being generous with your time will go a long way toward soothing some legitimate hurt feelings that he is carrying that are making things worse for both of you in your relationship.)
Ask him what he does in the time that he is away from you. Ask him if he has a substance abuse problem. It's another pathology that afflicts a lot of men, and if he is self-medicating, work with him so that he can overcome that particular self-destructive behavior.
You are not pleased with your partner, and it is affecting how you view the relationship. You say you are unsure about whether to continue, but you also say that your partner does not want out of the relationship and that you do not want to leave your partner. That is a good sign, because I don't see a single issue that is not extremely common most relationships. You have been together for a long time. Perhaps your partner is in the midst of a mid-life crisis. That is a turbulent period during which you figure out who you are and who you want to be. When you approach the end of this phase, you should be making decisions that show that you are a mature responsible adult. There is a lot of immature bullshit that comes out as the phase progresses, but it is a normal part of the process.
Lastly, as someone who is a big believer in marriage and the possibility that it entails of transforming two selfish, miserable, and lonely people into a loving unit where there is give and take, I wanted to share some wisdom that was given to me when I sought counseling to deal with some difficult emotions that were working against my marriage: when you are married (whether you are or not), as much as possible, try not to think in terms of you getting your way or your partner getting their way. You have to do what is best for the marriage. Sometimes that means calling it quits. You have obviously spent a lot of time and effort trying to patch things up. That is commendable. But you may still decide that you need to part ways, and that can actually be a loving decision. Good luck.
posted by Mr. Fig at 4:35 PM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
So, it's a pretty common dynamic that a not-breadwinner spouse (usually wife) provides the emotional labor in the marriage in exchange for the financial labor done by the breadwinner spouse (usually husband.) This emotional labor often includes putting up with unrewarding sex. We may all decry this dynamic but it is super common, to the point of being a cliche'.
If what you've got is a situation where you're doing all the emotional labor AND the financial labor, it's no wonder you're feeling like the situation is asymmetrical and unrewarding. Having to deal with unpleasant sex AND manage your spouse's pouting AND having to get yourself medically treated like you have a disease, when in fact your situation could be entirely solved by just not having them penetrate you, is a tremendous amount of draining emotional labor.
I guess I'd suggest, before bailing, figuring out ways that either have them contributing more, or you having to perform less. Maybe take penetrative sex right off the table for now, for example
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:59 PM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
If what you've got is a situation where you're doing all the emotional labor AND the financial labor, it's no wonder you're feeling like the situation is asymmetrical and unrewarding. Having to deal with unpleasant sex AND manage your spouse's pouting AND having to get yourself medically treated like you have a disease, when in fact your situation could be entirely solved by just not having them penetrate you, is a tremendous amount of draining emotional labor.
I guess I'd suggest, before bailing, figuring out ways that either have them contributing more, or you having to perform less. Maybe take penetrative sex right off the table for now, for example
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:59 PM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]
Something that hasn't been raised in the comments, but probably should be. Your spouse feels validated by sex and isn't getting that validation in your sexual relationship or, apparently, in any other aspect of their life. You have no idea what they do all day when your kid is at school, *and* they stay up late at night doing who-knows-what. This is, like, a textbook scenario for cheating.
posted by Sublimity at 2:49 AM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by Sublimity at 2:49 AM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]
Textbook scenario for cheating. Also textbook scenario for plodding around on the internet/ lying on the bed staring at the ceiling for hours feeling sad and unfulfilled. Either way you guys sound very unhappy.
We talk openly all the time
If you do then this is a conversation to be had with them. It doesn't sound like it, so try couples counselling with a registered psychologist and shop around for a good one.
posted by hotcoroner at 2:58 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
We talk openly all the time
If you do then this is a conversation to be had with them. It doesn't sound like it, so try couples counselling with a registered psychologist and shop around for a good one.
posted by hotcoroner at 2:58 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
First, you do deserve happiness, so don't settle for unhappy.
Second though, there is a space between "I put up with all this" and"divorce" and that is inviting your partner to fight for your relationship alongside you.
It sounds like you are to some degree - your partner is gearing up for a career to help give life more meat, and you are attacking the physical issues with sex. So awesome. But now you need to address the feeling in your home:
- no moping all day over sex (?!!) If I were you, I would take the child and *walk out* on those days, go berry picking or to the museum or something but get out, explicitly so your partner can learn a better way on his/her own to cope. You do not have to be in the room for this adolescent bs.
- make sure your partner knows divorce is on the table
- build joy in your life, together and separate...do the things you would do if your partner were happy both indivually and together. Be concerned with your own happiness! Travel! If your partner doesn't want to come along, that's sad...for them. Do it anyway. If you're going to divorce, why not? And that gives your partner a last, hail-Mary chance to come alongside you.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:39 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
Second though, there is a space between "I put up with all this" and"divorce" and that is inviting your partner to fight for your relationship alongside you.
It sounds like you are to some degree - your partner is gearing up for a career to help give life more meat, and you are attacking the physical issues with sex. So awesome. But now you need to address the feeling in your home:
- no moping all day over sex (?!!) If I were you, I would take the child and *walk out* on those days, go berry picking or to the museum or something but get out, explicitly so your partner can learn a better way on his/her own to cope. You do not have to be in the room for this adolescent bs.
- make sure your partner knows divorce is on the table
- build joy in your life, together and separate...do the things you would do if your partner were happy both indivually and together. Be concerned with your own happiness! Travel! If your partner doesn't want to come along, that's sad...for them. Do it anyway. If you're going to divorce, why not? And that gives your partner a last, hail-Mary chance to come alongside you.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:39 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]
It sounds like you guys have gotten into a really unhealthy place. The bit that jumped out at me was this:
But I think I'm feeling the strain of being my partner's near sole source of emotional support over the many years
Big red alarm bells. I've had to deal with anxiety and depression issues both in a maybe-meds-are-useful-and-so-is-exercise sense, but more relevantly, also in a boundaries-and-codependence-and-what-is-a-healthy-relationship sense. And saying what you just said to my counsellor would get some severe raised eyebrows, so to speak...
I've also personally been on both ends of this situation - no kid, but have been the partner with the SO being completely dependent on them emotionally, and have been the person being completely dependent. The first scenario led directly to me breaking up with my then girlfriend, because being that sole support was costing me too much. It sounds like it's costing you. The second scenario, where I was the dependent one, should never have happened, and it might help you to hear that being in that position seriously fucked with my head, as the guy in a hetero relationship - being dependent on my partner when it's a) in my DNA to do the opposite and treat them ridiculously well b) the opposite of the social role guys are still often expected to play - was just really terrible. I hated every bit of that dynamic.
So - your guy is depressed. However he got there, and having been there myself, what would help the most is if you could do something to give him back more of his own agency. I suspect there are boundary issues here - he's taking on more than is good for him because he actually loves you and wants to support your career, but that's costing *him*. Maybe you shouldn't let him do that? I suspect aggressively respecting and pointing out each others' limits of healthy behaviour could move things forward a bit.
As for the sexual thing - as a guy, and directed at your guy, this honestly just seems a bit silly. The most important thing here is not his ego, it's your pleasure! I'm tempted to say this is an emotional intelligence issue, but if you look at me at a point when I was really depressed, the "emotional intelligence picture" was not pretty, so there's that too.
(My conclusion: your partner is depressed. I think addressing that solves a few other things for you. Based on your description, I think he means enough to you that you want to see him through this - and there's ways to do that.)
posted by iffthen at 9:08 AM on July 2, 2017
But I think I'm feeling the strain of being my partner's near sole source of emotional support over the many years
Big red alarm bells. I've had to deal with anxiety and depression issues both in a maybe-meds-are-useful-and-so-is-exercise sense, but more relevantly, also in a boundaries-and-codependence-and-what-is-a-healthy-relationship sense. And saying what you just said to my counsellor would get some severe raised eyebrows, so to speak...
I've also personally been on both ends of this situation - no kid, but have been the partner with the SO being completely dependent on them emotionally, and have been the person being completely dependent. The first scenario led directly to me breaking up with my then girlfriend, because being that sole support was costing me too much. It sounds like it's costing you. The second scenario, where I was the dependent one, should never have happened, and it might help you to hear that being in that position seriously fucked with my head, as the guy in a hetero relationship - being dependent on my partner when it's a) in my DNA to do the opposite and treat them ridiculously well b) the opposite of the social role guys are still often expected to play - was just really terrible. I hated every bit of that dynamic.
So - your guy is depressed. However he got there, and having been there myself, what would help the most is if you could do something to give him back more of his own agency. I suspect there are boundary issues here - he's taking on more than is good for him because he actually loves you and wants to support your career, but that's costing *him*. Maybe you shouldn't let him do that? I suspect aggressively respecting and pointing out each others' limits of healthy behaviour could move things forward a bit.
As for the sexual thing - as a guy, and directed at your guy, this honestly just seems a bit silly. The most important thing here is not his ego, it's your pleasure! I'm tempted to say this is an emotional intelligence issue, but if you look at me at a point when I was really depressed, the "emotional intelligence picture" was not pretty, so there's that too.
(My conclusion: your partner is depressed. I think addressing that solves a few other things for you. Based on your description, I think he means enough to you that you want to see him through this - and there's ways to do that.)
posted by iffthen at 9:08 AM on July 2, 2017
Whether or not you stay in this relationship, I just wanted to throw in my two cents about the painful sex. I had painful sex for years and years, and went to see several doctors about it (in my twenties), most of whom blew me off, told me to use lube (duh, tried that), or told me I was just anxious and to take an Ativan. I was finally able to find a doctor who took me seriously, and she referred me to a physical therapist who specialized in this particular area. She was incredible, and helped me learn how to relax my muscles and stretch. I would encourage you to continue advocating for yourself with your docs until the problem is solved; I thought I'd have painful sex forever and I was wrong.
There's a lot going on in your post, and it sounds like a very complicated situation. Best of luck.
posted by sucre at 6:40 PM on July 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
There's a lot going on in your post, and it sounds like a very complicated situation. Best of luck.
posted by sucre at 6:40 PM on July 2, 2017 [4 favorites]
Seconding what sucre said - regardless of whatever else is going on in your life, painful sex is not something you just have to put up with. You may have to be pushy with doctors until you find one who takes the problem seriously.
Your overall situation sounds difficult but fixable too- I hope some of the other advice in this thread is helpful. Wishing you good luck with all of it!
posted by harriet vane at 6:45 AM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Your overall situation sounds difficult but fixable too- I hope some of the other advice in this thread is helpful. Wishing you good luck with all of it!
posted by harriet vane at 6:45 AM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
I will just comment on the sex issue. I’ve struggled with vaginismus for years and years – sex was painful even on those rare occasions when I was turned on. They were oh so rare because how can one feel turned on while anticipating horrible pain? Similarly to sucre, I went to several doctors who could do nothing for me, until one of them referred me to a physical therapist who “was great” at helping women like me, except that after many exceedingly painful sessions she could not help me. I thought that this is just how I am at that point and gave up on sex all together for several years. The doctor who referred me suggested that my issue might also be psychological, but I didn’t think so, because despite all, I still had a positive view of sex, thought of it as something I really, really would love to participate in with pleasure – bummer that I couldn’t. But I was wrong.
It wasn't until I met a new partner that I was “fixed." He did not discuss this with me, although he could clearly see the issue. We never talked about it. But what I think he did was a sort of behavior modification with me. He told me that sex is not the most important thing in life and we don’t have to have it to be happy. He would come on to me and we had foreplay but then he would not push things further. He removed all pressure about the sex. At first, I was sort of relieved at those times when foreplay did not lead to sex, then I started to get a little frustrated, but was still afraid of the pain to continue. When we did have sex, I was always on top, going in the beginning at my own pace, and there was never any rush on his part. He also would express so much joy and sincere bliss at every second that we were having sex, and at the smallest progress that I made, that it started to become my favorite time with him. He also made sure that the actual sex time was as short as possible so that I’d never get sore or bored with it. If I indicated in any way that something hurt, we’d stop immediately. At first I was afraid that he will complain of blue balls and pressure me, but he never did. He also tried to move in ways that were pleasurable to me, but wasn’t pushing me to have an orgasm or anything like that. It took us about 6 months of (thinking back) incredible patience on his part, but towards the end of our relationship which lasted 8 month, I was very often turned on and horny, loved having sex with him, would want it every day if not more, and only regretted not meeting someone like him much, much sooner. Now in a new relationship, I know myself enough to only have sex when *I* want it. I nipped any mopiness on his part about me not having an orgasm or being occasionally not in the mood in the bud, and sex is still not painful. I still feel like pinching myself every time, after a couple of decades of agony and tears. Please take what you may find useful from my story.
posted by LakeDream at 2:00 PM on July 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
It wasn't until I met a new partner that I was “fixed." He did not discuss this with me, although he could clearly see the issue. We never talked about it. But what I think he did was a sort of behavior modification with me. He told me that sex is not the most important thing in life and we don’t have to have it to be happy. He would come on to me and we had foreplay but then he would not push things further. He removed all pressure about the sex. At first, I was sort of relieved at those times when foreplay did not lead to sex, then I started to get a little frustrated, but was still afraid of the pain to continue. When we did have sex, I was always on top, going in the beginning at my own pace, and there was never any rush on his part. He also would express so much joy and sincere bliss at every second that we were having sex, and at the smallest progress that I made, that it started to become my favorite time with him. He also made sure that the actual sex time was as short as possible so that I’d never get sore or bored with it. If I indicated in any way that something hurt, we’d stop immediately. At first I was afraid that he will complain of blue balls and pressure me, but he never did. He also tried to move in ways that were pleasurable to me, but wasn’t pushing me to have an orgasm or anything like that. It took us about 6 months of (thinking back) incredible patience on his part, but towards the end of our relationship which lasted 8 month, I was very often turned on and horny, loved having sex with him, would want it every day if not more, and only regretted not meeting someone like him much, much sooner. Now in a new relationship, I know myself enough to only have sex when *I* want it. I nipped any mopiness on his part about me not having an orgasm or being occasionally not in the mood in the bud, and sex is still not painful. I still feel like pinching myself every time, after a couple of decades of agony and tears. Please take what you may find useful from my story.
posted by LakeDream at 2:00 PM on July 14, 2017 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
Your partner sounds really passive from your description, so I'm not sure how much they're going to be willing to do. The burden of decision making may fall on you if you want a change in your life.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:44 PM on July 1, 2017 [15 favorites]