Rectangular lot, not so rectangular fence
June 17, 2017 8:17 AM Subscribe
We recently bought a house. Our lot on paper is rectangular. The fence is not - it takes a 10" jog halfway along our house. In the interest of neighborly harmony, I'm inclined to let sleeping dogs lie (so am not planning to call a surveyor), but am curious about this enough to ask the internet - why?
The fence in question is a N/S fence which goes about 90' straight, then makes a 90 degree turn east for 8" then another 90 degree turn (here's a diagram). The fence makes the turn right where it intersects part of the house - so with the turn it means that rather than being plastered against the side of the house, the fence is 8" away from the windows. The house is a hundred years old, the fence at least 10 years old. Our assumption is that this suggests that part of our house is built all the way up to the property line, and our fence is encroaching on the neighbors lot on the north side of the lot so they don't have to stare directly in our windows (so the 8" of space between our windows and the fence is theirs). On the neighbor's side, their northern part is open, their southern expanse is where their house is (and they have about 9' between the fence and their house).
Does that seem like the most reasonable explanation? Any other ideas as to why someone would build a fence with a jog in it?
The fence in question is a N/S fence which goes about 90' straight, then makes a 90 degree turn east for 8" then another 90 degree turn (here's a diagram). The fence makes the turn right where it intersects part of the house - so with the turn it means that rather than being plastered against the side of the house, the fence is 8" away from the windows. The house is a hundred years old, the fence at least 10 years old. Our assumption is that this suggests that part of our house is built all the way up to the property line, and our fence is encroaching on the neighbors lot on the north side of the lot so they don't have to stare directly in our windows (so the 8" of space between our windows and the fence is theirs). On the neighbor's side, their northern part is open, their southern expanse is where their house is (and they have about 9' between the fence and their house).
Does that seem like the most reasonable explanation? Any other ideas as to why someone would build a fence with a jog in it?
Could it be an accommodation for a neighbor's former tree? Our garage roof has a weird jog that used to make space for a tree, which is no longer there.
posted by sarajane at 10:45 AM on June 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by sarajane at 10:45 AM on June 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
We have a fence with a similar weird jog...in our case it's because the previous owners of our house wanted a fenced-in backyard, and the neighbors wanted the fence to continue so that both their backyard and side yard would be enclosed on that side of the house. So the fence goes into their property about 18 inches, because if they had built it right along the property line, it would be right up against the cement walkway that goes around our house. In our case it's easy to see that the fence to the north of the jog and the fence to the south of the jog were installed separately because our fences are chain link, and the two fences differ slightly in style. So if there aren't utility lines, I would guess that your neighbors just wanted a fence between your house and theirs, and were willing to have it on their property.
posted by christinetheslp at 10:59 AM on June 17, 2017
posted by christinetheslp at 10:59 AM on June 17, 2017
the only way to really know the property line is a survey. most title insurance companies require one.
posted by patnok at 11:06 AM on June 17, 2017
posted by patnok at 11:06 AM on June 17, 2017
Without calling a surveyor, you should be able to just measure the length of the E/W fence and compare it to the stated width of your property to get a basic idea of whose property the fence is encroaching on.
posted by 256 at 12:15 PM on June 17, 2017
posted by 256 at 12:15 PM on June 17, 2017
I'd ask the neighbors, trying very hard to make the question neutral, curious, and cooperative. Everything needs maintenance eventually and it's good to know beforehand what the requirements are.
posted by clew at 12:43 PM on June 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by clew at 12:43 PM on June 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
If you're lucky, there might be a property corner marker on the road or sidewalk in front of your house. They can be really unobtrusive, looking like a nail or button pounded into the pavement. That would at least give you an eyeball look at which straight part of the fence appears to be on the line.
posted by ctmf at 1:43 PM on June 17, 2017
posted by ctmf at 1:43 PM on June 17, 2017
As suggested, I'd start with chatting with the neighbors, as well as seeing if any property corner markers are visible. There might be an interesting and useful-to-know backstory behind the fenceline zigzag, like utilities or a now-demolished structure.
the only way to really know the property line is a survey. most title insurance companies require one.
They are only required in some places, but this is correct -- unless there are clearly marked corner markers already in place, the only way you will know the property boundary for certain is to get a survey. You can check with the planning office to see if a recent survey is on file, but in the end you may need to get a surveyor out to mark the boundaries.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:03 PM on June 17, 2017
the only way to really know the property line is a survey. most title insurance companies require one.
They are only required in some places, but this is correct -- unless there are clearly marked corner markers already in place, the only way you will know the property boundary for certain is to get a survey. You can check with the planning office to see if a recent survey is on file, but in the end you may need to get a surveyor out to mark the boundaries.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:03 PM on June 17, 2017
the only way to really know the property line is a survey. most title insurance companies require one.
Apparently not so in the OP's area, since the statement was they "recently bought" the house. If the statement were true, there would have been a recent survey.
My idea is that the owner who put up the fence wanted a dog to have access from front to back.
posted by megatherium at 3:40 AM on June 18, 2017
Apparently not so in the OP's area, since the statement was they "recently bought" the house. If the statement were true, there would have been a recent survey.
My idea is that the owner who put up the fence wanted a dog to have access from front to back.
posted by megatherium at 3:40 AM on June 18, 2017
There are plenty of explanations, including a long lunch at Duffy's for the fence builder, but yours is the most likely by far. It sounds as if there was a property line problem identified when the fence went up and this is the neighborly solution. Without knowing where your corners are, you can't be certain.
In many jurisdictions the relatively long existence of the fence and its pretty clear intention not to take more than necessary would give rise to a prescriptive easement for the portion which intrudes onto the neighbor's property, if it does intrude. This isn't adverse possession, where the land becomes yours eventually, but a legitimate defense to a claim from the neighbor that there is an encroachment and that the fence must come down.
posted by bullatony at 4:55 AM on June 18, 2017
In many jurisdictions the relatively long existence of the fence and its pretty clear intention not to take more than necessary would give rise to a prescriptive easement for the portion which intrudes onto the neighbor's property, if it does intrude. This isn't adverse possession, where the land becomes yours eventually, but a legitimate defense to a claim from the neighbor that there is an encroachment and that the fence must come down.
posted by bullatony at 4:55 AM on June 18, 2017
my fence has a jog of about a foot at the rear of the property, which was there to accommodate the neighbor's greenhouse which was built too close to the property line. the greenhouse has since collapsed and been hauled away but the jog remains.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:47 AM on June 19, 2017
posted by murphy slaw at 5:47 AM on June 19, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by spork at 9:18 AM on June 17, 2017 [1 favorite]