I can chill at Mass once a week
May 21, 2017 11:56 AM Subscribe
I'm considering taking a job at a parochial school. Tell me why that's a great or terrible idea.
I'm a public school teacher with two job offers: one in a Catholic school, one in a public school (a different district than mine). Other than money, what are the advantages and disadvantages of working at a parochial school?
Here's what I'm thinking, but tbh I have no idea if any of this stuff has a basis in reality (can you tell me?):
- less time wasted on pointless state-mandated paperwork & initiatives, more time spent on actually teaching
- less red tape; school gets to make its own decisions without sending everything through nineteen layers of bureaucracy
- more involved families (maybe too involved?)
- I'm not Catholic. I am a (very liberal, theologically & politically) Christian, so I'm worried about finding myself at a school where I really don't fit in. (On the other hand, the school is in a super liberal area, so maybe that's not real?)
- if I take a parochial school job, is that what I'm doing forever? like do public schools look at that and then throw your resume away?!
Any insights you have – as a teacher, parent, or former student – would be much appreciated. Thank you!
I'm a public school teacher with two job offers: one in a Catholic school, one in a public school (a different district than mine). Other than money, what are the advantages and disadvantages of working at a parochial school?
Here's what I'm thinking, but tbh I have no idea if any of this stuff has a basis in reality (can you tell me?):
- less time wasted on pointless state-mandated paperwork & initiatives, more time spent on actually teaching
- less red tape; school gets to make its own decisions without sending everything through nineteen layers of bureaucracy
- more involved families (maybe too involved?)
- I'm not Catholic. I am a (very liberal, theologically & politically) Christian, so I'm worried about finding myself at a school where I really don't fit in. (On the other hand, the school is in a super liberal area, so maybe that's not real?)
- if I take a parochial school job, is that what I'm doing forever? like do public schools look at that and then throw your resume away?!
Any insights you have – as a teacher, parent, or former student – would be much appreciated. Thank you!
I taught at a Catholic school and am now an assistant debate coach at a public school.
The biggest difference is not the job or the Catholic/public school difference - it's the kids/demographic I have.
The Catholic school was all girls (several pregnant), VERY small (I had classes of 8-20), and very low income. Parents were not very involved; extracurriculars were very limited. I got cursed at the first week of school.
The public school is coed, small for a public school (~50 students per grade), middle income, and kids are involved in every extracurricular you could imagine. I don't feel like I'm fighting the kids as much (which has to be because they mostly want to be on the debate team), and that's nice.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 12:10 PM on May 21, 2017
The biggest difference is not the job or the Catholic/public school difference - it's the kids/demographic I have.
The Catholic school was all girls (several pregnant), VERY small (I had classes of 8-20), and very low income. Parents were not very involved; extracurriculars were very limited. I got cursed at the first week of school.
The public school is coed, small for a public school (~50 students per grade), middle income, and kids are involved in every extracurricular you could imagine. I don't feel like I'm fighting the kids as much (which has to be because they mostly want to be on the debate team), and that's nice.
posted by Ms Vegetable at 12:10 PM on May 21, 2017
I think Ms Vegetable is right that the demographics of your student body will have a big impact on your day to day teaching experience.
Private schools can expel kids with behavior problems or not meeting academic expectations much more easily than public schools.
In my relatively affluent area, the Catholic high schools have an excellent reputation. I know several Jewish families that sent there kids there without problems and there is was no religion (but some ethics) in classes outside the official religion class. Do ask if there is mandatory chapel and maybe attend one if there is.
In my area, public school teachers are protected by a fairly strong union. Private school teachers are not and usually have worse working conditions (in terms prep hours, continuing education etc) and lower pay.
posted by metahawk at 12:50 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Private schools can expel kids with behavior problems or not meeting academic expectations much more easily than public schools.
In my relatively affluent area, the Catholic high schools have an excellent reputation. I know several Jewish families that sent there kids there without problems and there is was no religion (but some ethics) in classes outside the official religion class. Do ask if there is mandatory chapel and maybe attend one if there is.
In my area, public school teachers are protected by a fairly strong union. Private school teachers are not and usually have worse working conditions (in terms prep hours, continuing education etc) and lower pay.
posted by metahawk at 12:50 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Consider potential conflicts with your 'very liberal' personal beliefs vs. the school/church rules.
Are there what might be termed 'lifestyle' rules --- are you allowed to live with anyone you choose, or would an unmarried partnership be a guarantee of being fired? How about LBGTQ --- what do they preach for their employees? I've read where Catholic schools have fired even straight, married Catholic teachers, for 'offenses' ranging from smoking to not regularly attending Mass to getting pregnant by in-vitro fertilization (instead of 'only by God's natural methods'). Do they forbid donations to groups or causes you personally support? Basically, how much control do they demand over all employees?
Don't go into this thinking you could live as you choose and hide something from them: telling the truth is always easier, if only because you don't have to keep track of who knows what about your true beliefs and choices.
posted by easily confused at 1:55 PM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
Are there what might be termed 'lifestyle' rules --- are you allowed to live with anyone you choose, or would an unmarried partnership be a guarantee of being fired? How about LBGTQ --- what do they preach for their employees? I've read where Catholic schools have fired even straight, married Catholic teachers, for 'offenses' ranging from smoking to not regularly attending Mass to getting pregnant by in-vitro fertilization (instead of 'only by God's natural methods'). Do they forbid donations to groups or causes you personally support? Basically, how much control do they demand over all employees?
Don't go into this thinking you could live as you choose and hide something from them: telling the truth is always easier, if only because you don't have to keep track of who knows what about your true beliefs and choices.
posted by easily confused at 1:55 PM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
I teach English in a parochial high school; my mom teaches English in a public middle school. You are right that I have less red tape to deal with on a daily basis, and I lose less time to state-mandated testing. However, my school is BRUTAL when it comes to student load and number of preps per teacher, and they pile on more work every year. Obviously, we have no union to protect us. This year, they changed the teachers' start time to 15 minutes earlier every day with no compensation —we just have to work an extra hour and 15 minutes per week. Also, Catholic schools around the country are shrinking. You might want to look into this school's enrollment trends. We have laid off teachers every year for the past five years, and it is often based on last in/first out. You'll likely pay a TON towards health benefits if you need them. So why do I stay? My students are engaged and have lots of parental support, and I have a ton of freedom to do what I want to do in my classroom.
By the way, we only have Mass once a month (maybe twice if there's a Holy Day), but we are required to start each class with a prayer. I went to Catholic school myself, so that's all just normal for me,but in my private life I consider myself "ethnically Catholic" and socially liberal. There are plenty of Catholic Democrats...you might be surprised at the teacher demographics (some of us like to feed the poor and help the sick!). I would say many of my colleagues were horrified when Trump won, and I live in a rural red county.
posted by katie at 2:28 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
By the way, we only have Mass once a month (maybe twice if there's a Holy Day), but we are required to start each class with a prayer. I went to Catholic school myself, so that's all just normal for me,but in my private life I consider myself "ethnically Catholic" and socially liberal. There are plenty of Catholic Democrats...you might be surprised at the teacher demographics (some of us like to feed the poor and help the sick!). I would say many of my colleagues were horrified when Trump won, and I live in a rural red county.
posted by katie at 2:28 PM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Consider potential conflicts with your 'very liberal' personal beliefs vs. the school/church rules.
I agree with easily confused that you need to seriously ask about and consider what the expectations are for those in your role. Do you need to attend daily/weekly/regular relgious school services or religious events (daily prayer/ annual first communion or equivalent) even if you don't attend regular services on your own? Is there a dress code? Expectations for unreimbursed participation in after school activities? Expectation for annual donations? Are there any philosophical slants to the curriculum that you are uncomfortable supporting? Insurance limits that affect you/your family?
posted by beaning at 2:33 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I agree with easily confused that you need to seriously ask about and consider what the expectations are for those in your role. Do you need to attend daily/weekly/regular relgious school services or religious events (daily prayer/ annual first communion or equivalent) even if you don't attend regular services on your own? Is there a dress code? Expectations for unreimbursed participation in after school activities? Expectation for annual donations? Are there any philosophical slants to the curriculum that you are uncomfortable supporting? Insurance limits that affect you/your family?
posted by beaning at 2:33 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have relatives who taught in Catholic school and faced subtle discrimination when applying to teach at public schools afterwards. They did eventually find jobs in public schools, but it was a challenge.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 2:46 PM on May 21, 2017
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 2:46 PM on May 21, 2017
Other than money, what are the advantages and disadvantages of working at a parochial school?
Your coworkers may be Catholic first, teachers second. They may not be credentialed and have formal training as teachers.
Whether this is the case at your school, or matters to you, I can't say, but these are two potential differences that could affect your experience.
posted by zippy at 4:24 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Your coworkers may be Catholic first, teachers second. They may not be credentialed and have formal training as teachers.
Whether this is the case at your school, or matters to you, I can't say, but these are two potential differences that could affect your experience.
posted by zippy at 4:24 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
If you are on birth control, it's likely that the health insurance you get from the parochial school will not cover it, so you'd have to pay out of pocket.
posted by kevinbelt at 4:25 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by kevinbelt at 4:25 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
It's really down to the individual school.
I went to Catholic high school. I'm an atheist, my parents are atheists, no one cared except for this one foul old nun I had three years running for math. I had classmates who were Muslim, Jewish and Protestant. This particular school, at that particular time, was being run by very liberal catholics. Many of the teachers were liberation theologists. I didn't even get in that much trouble for hanging provocative ACT-UP signs on the outside of my locker (it was the 80s). They were just like, "Um, we appreciate your passion but maybe not so much with the picture of a condom superimposed over Cardinal O'Connor?"
Meanwhile at the brother school around the corner, which was run by the Christian Brothers, it was Catholic Old Boys Club business as usual, with all the school-sanctioned homophobia and racism that entails. Same diocese, heck, same street, and two very very different environments.
My husband taught at my alma mater about 10 years later, and it had changed significantly, after a big donation by a wealthy local Conservative Catholic family. They installed their own people in the administration and it became much more a traditional Catholic prep school experience. Still not as bad as the boys' school, but not the same as when I was there.
Which I guess it so say that with parochial schools, there's a lot less in the way of layers of bureaucracy, which in many ways sounds great coming from a public school but also means that a single person can come in and change a lot if they have the power, influence and desire to do so. They don't have to install that many allies in order to basically take over.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
I went to Catholic high school. I'm an atheist, my parents are atheists, no one cared except for this one foul old nun I had three years running for math. I had classmates who were Muslim, Jewish and Protestant. This particular school, at that particular time, was being run by very liberal catholics. Many of the teachers were liberation theologists. I didn't even get in that much trouble for hanging provocative ACT-UP signs on the outside of my locker (it was the 80s). They were just like, "Um, we appreciate your passion but maybe not so much with the picture of a condom superimposed over Cardinal O'Connor?"
Meanwhile at the brother school around the corner, which was run by the Christian Brothers, it was Catholic Old Boys Club business as usual, with all the school-sanctioned homophobia and racism that entails. Same diocese, heck, same street, and two very very different environments.
My husband taught at my alma mater about 10 years later, and it had changed significantly, after a big donation by a wealthy local Conservative Catholic family. They installed their own people in the administration and it became much more a traditional Catholic prep school experience. Still not as bad as the boys' school, but not the same as when I was there.
Which I guess it so say that with parochial schools, there's a lot less in the way of layers of bureaucracy, which in many ways sounds great coming from a public school but also means that a single person can come in and change a lot if they have the power, influence and desire to do so. They don't have to install that many allies in order to basically take over.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
It really depends on the Order but if it's being run by Dominicans or something they'll likely be plenty liberal. I went to several Catholic schools and had all kinds of teachers, Muslim single gay etc and there was a strong focus on social justice and that was 25 years ago. Otoh my brothers went to a school that was a lot more fire and brimstone and old school. Nuns tend to be more liberal than brothers and some orders are way more proactive than others so it'll vary a lot. So I'd definitely do your research on the individual school far more than relying on generalities.
posted by fshgrl at 7:55 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fshgrl at 7:55 PM on May 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
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As a student, religion was far more present at my parochial grade school than my parochial high school. At the high school, English class was English class, science was science, etc. Religion was only present during the one religion class per semester; there were a couple of priests teaching math classes, but they were well qualified and religion didn't come up. I really didn't get the sense that my non-devout teachers (of whom there were plenty) were uncomfortable in the workplace.
That said, I imagine this varies by school and by area. (Chicago area for me.)
posted by chimpsonfilm at 12:06 PM on May 21, 2017