How to deal with casual disregard for small animals

May 21, 2017 9:06 AM

My nephew, who is around 4, is curious about animals. My family encourages him to capture frogs, lizards, grasshoppers, etc. This often ends with the animal dying, either because it starves, suffocates in the poorly vented makeshift container, or my nephew squishes it when trying to hold it. This greatly upsets me, and nobody in my family seems to care. How do I deal with this?

I've told them I believe animals should be respected and observed, not treated like toys. Nobody in my family seems to agree, or doesn't care enough to say anything. I've saved a few animals, a couple times when nephew/family had moved onto something else. I would just say the animal had died or escaped.

One time, though, my nephew was getting too forceful with a frog and I took him away to release him into the woods. My nephew started crying and my grandfather tried to stop me, saying "Don't make him cry, I'll hold him!" I just said no and kept walking. Of course, my nephew stopped crying about a minute later when he was distracted and onto the next thing. In my mind, nephew being upset for a minute is worth it to save an animal's life.

It just frustrates me that my family is so casual about the suffering of animals. Whenever they capture something new it puts me in a really terrible mood and I have to remove myself from the situation. I feel sick to my stomach and I can't stand to be around it. But then I also feel guilty for just leaving a defenseless animal to potentially be injured or die

When I was really young I was holding a recently born kitten (my favorite because she was the runt of the litter), when she climbed up onto my shoulder and fell off and landed on her back. That kitten writhed in pain for hours before finally dying. I was devastated. My mom's boyfriend (who was an abusive piece of shit) accused me of doing it on purpose. I know now that he was just an asshole, but as a young kid it really upset me. I also have a bunch of memories of family members (mom, uncle) being abusive towards our dogs and cats.

I know these feelings are likely brought to the surface from my childhood, so I will bring this up with my therapist in a couple weeks. For the time being, I'm looking for any advice from people who have been in similar situations and how they dealt with their emotional response. What did you say or do? Thank you!

posted by blackzinfandel to Pets & Animals (16 answers total)

Frame it as teaching, not preventing. I.e. explain why a container needs air holes, talk about what animals eat and drink, instead of focusing on freeing the animals. Kids are curious about nature and catching and keeping is part of that, and doesn't have to be cruel.
posted by so fucking future at 9:12 AM on May 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

It takes kids a while to understand that other humans have their own perspectives and feelings, so I think it's going to be harder for them to make that leap about other animals. Especially ones that aren't fuzzy or as cuddle-able as dogs or cats (but also, dogs or cats). Second teaching vs shaming, for the kid.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:17 AM on May 21, 2017

Response by poster: Just to add, I did say to my nephew a few times to be gentle, and that he should pet the frog rather than hold it (since the frog naturally tries to jump and nephew naturally tries to get a better grip on him and ends up squishing the frog. One has already died this way). So I do not shame my nephew.
posted by blackzinfandel at 9:26 AM on May 21, 2017

I wonder if there's a keeping and care book for backyard animals. I mean all kids seems to love doing it. So a book about it, a conversation about "I know you love to watch animals, and I know you don't want to hurt them" . Maybe you could take kid to zoo as part of the educational package. Would be easy to talk about exhibits and the water, play, food features etc
posted by Ftsqg at 9:27 AM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Thirding the teaching approach, I'd suggest taking every opportunity to model compassion and thoughtfulness to the kid, in a way that doesn't cause his parents to stop inviting you over. A visible role model is worth a lot more than a martyr whose absence is never explained. Compared to the suffering that humans cause animals for far less well justified reasons than childish enthusiasm for pets - which, to be clear, I'm entirely guilty of as a typical consumer from an industrialized nation, and even more so as one who eats meat - a couple dead frogs doesn't seem like a bad price to pay for creating a new human skilled in compassion.

Explain to the kid why you feel sad about the dead lizard. Carry out a funeral. Talk about the lizard joys she never got to realize. Point out the things modern zoos do to try to keep their animals safe and happy, and the biological needs of his captives.
posted by eotvos at 9:31 AM on May 21, 2017

I think it's possible that your kitten story has more to do with this than a learning process that pretty much all kids go through. I'd be surprised if anybody born in the past thousand or so years has not been told at some point to stop hitting the dog.

Also, since you aren't the kid's parent and everybody else doesn't seem to have a problem with this, you might be at risk of alienating yourself from them. I do think a 4 year old should understand "you're going to hurt it," though.
posted by rhizome at 9:56 AM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

If you want to influence this situation for the better, you can model enthusiasm and curiosity for the kid by acting as if keeping it alive/active were part of the fun. "Oh, a frog! They're the best! See how its skin feels? That's because it's an amphibian, that means they live partly in water, so let's make sure we keep it by the water... they have a long curly tongue for catching bugs but it will only show it if it sees a fly go by, maybe if we watch it from here we can see it catch a fly..." &c.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:01 AM on May 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Best answer: The kitten incident is a factor, and may be preventing you from thinking clearly and creatively about this, but it sounds like the number of creatures affected here warrants a serious approach.

Some ideas:

- Really good age-appropriate children's books and/or movies from the perspectives of tiny creatures. I think it's possible that the Disney movie "The Princess and the Frog" might be something to look at; there's a firefly, I think, that has a particularly affecting storyline, in addition to the frog -- although I don't know if it's appropriate for a 4-year-old.

- Cast your nephew as the caretaker of these creatures. Let it become his job not just to pick them up, but to somehow maximize their happiness. The happier the creature, the more he "wins". This is just a rudimentary thought, but maybe you could invent a game for him with this premise.

- Point out the differences between how happy and healthy creatures act and how sad or sick injures behave. It's hard to have empathy if you can't even tell the difference between different emotional states.

- Since you are his uncle, and it sounds like you see him regularly, you can read about teaching empathy to children and possibly work on it a bit. This article looks promising, but you can do a web search for more information. One of the first points it makes is that children learn empathy by having their own emotional states noticed and needs met; you can do that for him.

Good luck. I know this is hard.
posted by amtho at 10:10 AM on May 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

Also, gentle hands is a very hard concept to teach. What you can do is practice with medium-boiled eggs, hard enough to have a firmish white. Practice holding the egg and he can immediately tell when he's being gentle versus pressing too hard, because the egg will respond to touch.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 10:44 AM on May 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

If he will be living most of his life with people who are _not_ very empathetic, you'll want to teach him how to handle that, too.
posted by amtho at 10:52 AM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm sorry about the kitten. I know it was long ago but that sounds incredibly sad and scary, and it's understandable that it would continue to hurt.

I agree with approaching it from a teaching perspective. When I point out animals to my toddler, I try to explain how to behave around them using the animals' point of view: "That squirrel doesn't know that we're friendly. We should stay back so we don't scare it" or "that frog likes sitting right there, so she'll be happier if we don't pick her up." Go on some nature walks with him, and teach him how to observe without capturing. It helps if you know the nearby flora and fauna somewhat, so you can point out cool things he wouldn't otherwise observe and demonstrate that you're knowledgeable about wildlife.

If you're dealing with an already-captured critter, you can say something like "Oh, what a cool lizard! But I think it might get bored/lonely/hungry/cold in that box. (Back it up with how lizards warm up in the sun, or prefer to catch their own food, etc.) Do you want to find an outside place for him to live?"
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:03 AM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

I identify strongly with the dynamic here. My former sister-in-law seemed to take the attitude that small, helpless animals are to be collected for the fleeting amusement of her and her small children, and then when the interest dies off, to be neglected until they die. Fortunately, I no longer have to deal with her directly but it was extremely painful for me when it was going on. It basically ruined a family vacation for me once because they were holding several small critters hostage the whole time.

Many others have better advice on talking to your nephew about it. I was wondering--are there any adults in the situation that you could have a heart-to-heart with? Tell them how much this affects you, given the trauma from your childhood with the kitten? Make it about how upsetting and triggering this is for you? Obviously, this would only work with an adult who is actually kind and empathetic. It seems like a large part of the problem is the attitude of the adults in in the situation.
posted by whistle pig at 11:14 AM on May 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Best answer: There's a great book that I started reading to my kiddo around 3-4yrs old, called The Salamander Room. It's about a boy who finds a salamander in the woods and wants to keep him, and his mother walking him through the logic of what a wild animal needs and why it's not feasible to keep an animal in the house.

You could get him some appropriate bug-catching gear, the toy stores all have jars with lids and air holes right now, and some are extra cool and have magnifying glasses built in too. Then, rather than leave him to his own devices, maybe you can put yourself in charge of taking him on bug and frog hunts. In that way you're first in line about instilling your values, concerns, and empathy for living creatures. Sometimes watching nature shows about how mothers care for their young are good for this ("if you take him away his mother won't be able to find him"). Sometimes visits to the aquarium or natural history museum are good for reinforcing messages about habitat and proper food sources and temperatures.

I'm sorry about your experience with the kitten. That sounds dreadful for anyone but particularly a child to have to witness. I'm glad to hear that your are honoring the little kitten's life by trying to teach your nephew and others about caring for smaller creatures. Keep planting those seeds. The lessons you are teaching now may not be implemented immediately, but it's never a waste of your time to teach them. They will be remembered and implemented at some point.
posted by vignettist at 11:54 AM on May 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

Best answer: I'm a bit dissapointed by many of the responses here. I think you are right to teach your nephew that the life of an animal has value and it is not something we should casually take for our own gratification. And yes, I believe you can begin teaching a four year old to understand those concepts. I also believe that you have both the right and the responsibility to free the animal from family members who threaten its well being. I once unfriended a woman who kept giving her four year old daughter pet turtles, even though the child repeatedly killed them through abuse. My friend's response to her husband and I stating our objection to this? "Oh for Gods sake, they're just turtles." So that was it for me, I was done with her.

You just keep doing what you are doing. You are the only good example your nephew has to modle kindness and responsibility. Its very possible that your message is getting across, or will over the years. Thank you for being the one who goes out on a limb to do the right thing. We need more people like you in the world.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:47 PM on May 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

I agree with what everyone said about being a role model. You have the power to set the right example. If you do so in a loving way, you could change the kid's life.

What I would add, in all seriousness, is to consider whether the boy is just careless because nobody taught him better, or he is careless because he likes hurting animals? I seriously doubt this is the case from what you've described. Nevertheless, children who enjoy animal abuse (enjoy it, and are not just acting out of ignorance) often move on to abusing and hurting people. I have known people who, because of the example of a responsible adult, were able to divert their desire to hurt animals into channels that did not cause harm. They learned other ways to cope with aggression, or learned to feel empathy, and this changed their lives.

Even if this kid is just curious, the right example could mean he grows up respecting animals rather than just thinking of them as throwaway toys. And that in itself could be life changing if he can enjoy the love of an animal and properly return it at some point in his life when he might badly need such a companion.
posted by Crystal Fox at 5:04 PM on May 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Best answer: a couple dead frogs doesn't seem like a bad price to pay for creating a new human skilled in compassion.

but if the creation of compassion is successful, it will seem like a horrifying price to pay. an unavoidable paradox, if you like, but you don't have to feel blase about enabling a child torturing dozens of animals to death on his way to learning that he shouldn't actually do that. If the agony of the frogs is nothing in itself (it's not nothing) think of the feelings of the child when he gains awareness and has to remember what he did.

If you see a kid about to run out into the street in front of a car, you can scream and grab him and haul him back and then, once he's safe, give him a hug and explain. If it shocks him a bit, that's ok -- it's good for the creation of strong reflexes against doing it again. Same thing when you see him crushing a living creature to death. Don't explode at him; try to work with the developing sense of morality that he's already got, sure & of course: but a healthy child will learn to feel shame for the pain he causes whether he is "shamed" for it or not. that health develops in part as a byproduct of what the adults around him are visibly upset by.

n.b. I don't care about killing bugs and would save the serious lectures for the frogs and lizards et al. but it's still wrong to kill even a bug slowly instead of quickly.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:40 AM on May 22, 2017 [6 favorites]