Overthinking karaoke offensiveness?

May 7, 2017 12:42 AM

I sang a karaoke song with offensive lyrics, should I apologize?

At my friend's bachelor party we went to karaoke. It was a group of people with various sexual orientations and genders. I sang "Fairytale of New York" with a friend and 1) didn't realize the homophobic-ness of the lyrics beforehand and then 2) sang them anyway when they came up.

Should I apologize to the group for this? Or would that make it worse? I definitely noticed, some others might not have, but I'm not sure that matters. Is it now too late and I should have apologized right then? Am I overthinking this?

posted by kms to Human Relations (16 answers total)

I think you're overthinking this. If someone complains or looks a bit put out later absolutely apologize- but I feel like karaoke is a kind of liminal space where singing words that would otherwise be offensive is temporarily allowed. I myself am queer, and would not likely be offended by this, but people vary.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 12:57 AM on May 7, 2017 [2 favorites]

It doesn't sound like you choose the song, knew the song or understood the lyrics until afterwards. You would have been as surprised in the moment as anyone else so I'm not too sure what there is to apologise for. Maybe the person who selected it as an option for a song choice owes you an apology.
posted by Jubey at 1:02 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: I picked the song, but didn't know all the lyrics.
posted by kms at 1:17 AM on May 7, 2017

It's a fantastically popular song, reaching the UK Top 20 every year since 2005 (according to wikipedia), despite that one word. I wouldn't worry too much about it. I certainly wouldn't apologize openly to the group. I think most people are aware the song is a bit contentious.
posted by humboldt32 at 1:37 AM on May 7, 2017 [5 favorites]

Ohhhh man, I've been there. I once accidentally sang something that turned out to be way more offensive than that Pogues song. I was (and still am) horrified, but in reality, nobody cared. The thing is, people don't really pay that much attention, and I think most people generally understand that you don't know all the lyrics to something before you sing it (which is why the lyrics are on a screen for you).

Anyway, I think all that's going to come of this is that now you know not to pick that song again.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 2:12 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

No.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:12 AM on May 7, 2017 [3 favorites]

For future reference, there are canonical substitute lyrics:

in a recording for the TV programme ‘Top of the Pops’ in the UK (with Shane McGowan), Kirsty changed the lyrics slightly to ‘You scumbag, you maggot, you’re cheap and your haggard’
posted by mahorn at 3:21 AM on May 7, 2017 [10 favorites]

Here is my personal take on early Pogues (since this isn't the only song with such lyrics): Not homophobic but using language for effect in a way that we don't do now. If you listen to "The Old Main Drag", for instance, it is clearly, directly anti-homophobic in a way that I (a queer person) find very affecting, even though it uses language that we do not use now. To me, it seems very clear that the Pogues' political project is basically an inclusive one, not a homophobic one, but that in their earlier work Shane McGowan used words that are homophobic as part of his portrayal of particular attitudes and dialogue. I think it's difficult to do this in song rather than prose, and then especially difficult to do at another remove, when you are singing someone else's work.

Honestly, if you're close to one of the attendees and it bugs you, why not talk to them? You could also see if they feel that you should mention it to the group. "I didn't know the lyrics of this commonly sung popular song and sort of flailed in the moment, now I feel bad" is a pretty sympathetic tale. To tell the truth - again as a visibly queer person who has,though not an AMAB person, been called a faggot - I would find your story affecting and a little funny. It would not make me angry or make me think less of you, since it was so obviously a mistake in the moment.

If you do apologize, please do so lightly, emphasizing that you didn't know the lyrics and couldn't think quickly enough in the moment to replace them. This wasn't about you being a big old homophobe; it was about you accidentally saying a word that we don't use casually now. It was really more like a mispronunciation than anything else.

I totally get you on this one - I once actually played a song at an event at which I was DJing that I did not realize until afterward was offensive. It sucks! But you know what? Literally no one else noticed it was offensive, as far as I can tell. I made a big fuss and apologized all over the map and took a break from DJing and felt really horrible, but even when I explained it to people who had been there, no one cared. If a song is offensive but less well known, or offensive in one line, or offensive in a more obscure way, people don't generally pick it up - which doesn't mean we shouldn't vet our choices, but it does mean that at least we aren't making people feel terrible.
posted by Frowner at 5:38 AM on May 7, 2017 [7 favorites]

For what it's worth, a few Christmases ago I can recall discussing this song with two of my friends (both gay men). Friend 1 finds the song abhorrent, he thinks straight people use "Christmas!" as an excuse to drunkenly chorus a lyric they wouldn't normally be able to say in polite society. Friend 2 likes the song because "it's a great Christmas song!" and doesn't care if people sing the f-word in what he calls the "artistic and historical context" of the song. So there's a wide variety of opinions!

I wouldn't apologize after the fact unless you have reason to believe that your friends are like my first friend (which I think is unlikely - he tends to take a pretty hard line on stuff like this, I expect the general view is a lot closer to second friend). It is a brief moment in the song, most people probably didn't notice or, if they did they will probably give you the benefit of the doubt. If you do want to apologize, I would grab one or two of the group and do it lightly - on preview, Frowner's scripts are perfect.
posted by cpatterson at 5:54 AM on May 7, 2017

To be honest, I think I would be far more uncomfortable being on the receiving end of such an apology than with you singing the song because I'd end up feeling like you think that not using certain words is what it means to be a good ally and that's not a belief I desire in friends.

I think the TOTP change might have been something of a one off and it's played unchanged on UK radio. Because I do get a small start the first time I hear it every year, not because of the word itself, but because it's said in anger. I'm mostly thinking about that in contrast to the 'faggot' in American Idiot, which wasn't bleeped in the original radio edit (just found it on YouTube and they've cut it now), which doesn't jar me in the same way because I've always understood it as a defiant use. So I suppose I'm about to contradict myself and say that if you have strong belief that you gave someone an unexpected start , it wouldn't be terrible to have a quick word with them, but I think it has to be a decision made about each person individually on grounds beyond "they're queer".
posted by hoyland at 6:44 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Another for "overthinking it". There's so many step-off points for people to not be offended- the context of the song as discussed, lots of people don't pay attention to song lyrics, lots of people at a karaoke chat or read the song list or tune out the terrible voices and aren't listening properly anyway, they're your friends/friend's friends and aren't going to assume you're a homophobe. I wouldn't worry about it.
posted by hotcoroner at 8:13 AM on May 7, 2017

What feels like the right thing to do? You may not need to make an awkward formal apology, but calling a friend to say I sang "Fairytale of New York" at karaoke and forgot about the lyrics being stupid. I've been feeling bad about it. See how friend responds.
posted by theora55 at 10:38 AM on May 7, 2017 [1 favorite]

Was this a private room karaoke kind of a deal, or a bar where your group were not the only ones singing?

If it was more of a private room, I think it may be OK to say "yeah, I didn't realize quite what the words were at the time, sorry" but I also don't find this particular instance that big of a deal, and I'm usual sensitive to such things. If it was more of a mixed group, I'd just let it go unless someone else brings it up with you.

(I have a mind that karaoke is kind of a safe space and you can get away with things there that you could not otherwise -- although it does depend on the circumstances and situation, sure. When I had my karaoke birthday -- which I will do again -- it was an "anything goes" kind of policy, if the particular song was available. A friend sang an R. Kelly song, for example, and I am not an R. Kelly fan, but it was his choice and he did such a great job with it that I didn't have any reservations about it. I trust people I know to engage with problematic things in a thoughtful way. I am sure your friends gave you the benefit of doubt here.)
posted by darksong at 5:26 PM on May 7, 2017

You might be overthinking it, but as a queer person who often has to swallow my irritation when folks say unwittingly homophobic things, I would be touched that you cared enough to think of my feelings and apologize. As long as you kept it light and didn't beg for forgiveness, which would then put the social burden on me.
posted by lieber hair at 9:16 PM on May 7, 2017

I do think this matters and I appreciate that you're thinking about it.

In the case of this song, I am gay and do not personally find it offensive: I think the words are spoken as a certain character. If I heard a straight person karaoking this song, I can imagine having a range of reactions from, "Cool, they're singing a song I like" to "Hmm, weird how this seemingly clueless straight person said that without thinking about it, I feel uncomfortable now". I'd be picking up a lot of contextual clues about the person singing to make my judgement. Additionally, I'm not a gay man, so the word is not directed at me. So while I like the song, I can't say for sure how others might feel. I doubt they'd feel very strongly about it, but it could conceivably feel bad to some people.

In general, when I say or do something that I later realize could be a micro (or macro) aggression on another person, I struggle with how to address it later. On one hand, I think it's important I overcome my own shame and embarrassment: my discomfort is not what's important here, and ideally, I'd like to find a one-on-one moment to acknowledge and apologize. In practice this is hard, especially when addressing a group. I want to avoid taking up more of the person's emotional energy by creating a big to-do about apologizing.

Recently, I was out with a group of people I don't know well, but wanted to impress, and I weirdly said something that could be construed as anti-Semitic. (I'm Jewish!) I felt excruciating discomfort for much of the evening when I thought about what I'd said and how weird and bad it could have sounded to these strangers. It's not just that they might have mis-heard me, it was genuinely weird for me to say it, and perhaps there was some unconscious bias toward my own group I had been expressing. And there was just no way to fix it! It felt like an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm.

I don't know that there's a right answer here. I don't think we should just shrug it off when we do something that could be offensive or hurtful. But I don't think we can always fix it later either.

I think the best we can do might be just trying to be more mindful, taking more positive actions, reading more, getting to know different kinds of people more, apologizing when it is appropriate to do so, supporting activists from more marginalized groups, giving money to activists and organizers and nonprofits who work for self determination among those marginalized communities. We should work to avoid saying harmful things in the future.

We live in a world that is poisoned with violence and disparities based on bigotry. None of us can escape the ways that fucks with so many of our interactions.
posted by latkes at 10:02 PM on May 7, 2017

I believe you're overthinking it; furthermore, the very fact you're asking this question suggests to me you're a kind soul, and I'm sure the body of your behavior outweighs the impact of this (non)incident to the nth degree with your friends.
posted by DrAstroZoom at 11:21 AM on May 8, 2017 [1 favorite]