An Ungrounded Outlet Makes Me Question My Entire Electrical Situation
April 28, 2017 1:11 PM Subscribe
I bought a new Instant Pot. It has a grounded plug, but I'm in an old house, and the nearest plug is not grounded. Much anxiety and paralysis has ensued. See more below....
I had professional electricians here a few years ago to convert outlets to grounded. They missed this one (OTOH in most of the supposedly grounded outlets, I later noticed they just slapped on new faceplates, while the outlets aren't actually grounded. I'm furious. But that's another story)
Issues/Questions:
1. Can outlets actually be made to be grounded - without $$$$ work - in a 1913 house? If so, I guess I'll simply have another electrician come in and fix this.
2. Any reason not to just slap on a cheap grounded-to-ungrounded adapter, so I can plug the Instant Pot into the two prong outlet? My pref would be to not burn the house down, and this is a cooker intended for minimal supervision, which strikes me as a scary combo.
3. A friend suggested buying a power strip with a good breaker switch, plugging the strip into the ungrounded outlet (via ungrounded adapter), to at least have that additional layer of safety. I'm not sure this actually computes.
4. There is an apparently grounded outlet 10 feet away. I could snake an extension cord over there. OTOH, I'm not sure it's legitimately grounded! And the extension cord solution would be clunky. But I'm real eager to stew stuff.
I had professional electricians here a few years ago to convert outlets to grounded. They missed this one (OTOH in most of the supposedly grounded outlets, I later noticed they just slapped on new faceplates, while the outlets aren't actually grounded. I'm furious. But that's another story)
Issues/Questions:
1. Can outlets actually be made to be grounded - without $$$$ work - in a 1913 house? If so, I guess I'll simply have another electrician come in and fix this.
2. Any reason not to just slap on a cheap grounded-to-ungrounded adapter, so I can plug the Instant Pot into the two prong outlet? My pref would be to not burn the house down, and this is a cooker intended for minimal supervision, which strikes me as a scary combo.
3. A friend suggested buying a power strip with a good breaker switch, plugging the strip into the ungrounded outlet (via ungrounded adapter), to at least have that additional layer of safety. I'm not sure this actually computes.
4. There is an apparently grounded outlet 10 feet away. I could snake an extension cord over there. OTOH, I'm not sure it's legitimately grounded! And the extension cord solution would be clunky. But I'm real eager to stew stuff.
OTOH, I'm not sure it's legitimately grounded! And the extension cord solution would be clunky. But I'm real eager to stew stuff.
Buy a 10$ receptable checker. You can plug it into your outlet. It will have lights telling you if an outlet is grounded, or if it has some sort of fault.
You can also weave the extension cord along the baseboards to make the solution less, well, trip-y.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 1:24 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
Buy a 10$ receptable checker. You can plug it into your outlet. It will have lights telling you if an outlet is grounded, or if it has some sort of fault.
You can also weave the extension cord along the baseboards to make the solution less, well, trip-y.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 1:24 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
You can install a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter). This does not depend on grounding. It measures the difference between the current in the hot and neutral. If the current in the hot is higher than the neutral it means that it is going somewhere else (like into you).
" Sec. 210-7(d)(3) permits any of the following installations when replacing a 2-wire ungrounded receptacle:
(a) Replace it with another 2-wire receptacle;
(b) Replace it with a GFCI-type receptacle and mark the receptacle with the words “No Equipment Ground;” or
(c) Replace it with a grounding-type receptacle protected by a GFCI device (circuit breaker or receptacle). Since the grounding terminals for the receptacles are not grounded, you must mark the receptacles with the words “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground” (see Sidebar: Understanding GFCIs).
Let’s talk about the last two options. A GFCI-protected grounding-type receptacle without an equipment-grounding conductor is safer than a grounding-type receptacle with an equipment-grounding conductor, but without GFCI protection. This is because the GFCI protection device will clear a ground-fault when the fault current is 5mA (+ or - 1mA), which is less than the current level necessary to cause serious electric shock or electrocution.
A grounding-type receptacle without a ground is a safe installation, as long as the protection circuitry within the GFCI device has not failed from shorts or voltage transients."
posted by H21 at 1:26 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
" Sec. 210-7(d)(3) permits any of the following installations when replacing a 2-wire ungrounded receptacle:
(a) Replace it with another 2-wire receptacle;
(b) Replace it with a GFCI-type receptacle and mark the receptacle with the words “No Equipment Ground;” or
(c) Replace it with a grounding-type receptacle protected by a GFCI device (circuit breaker or receptacle). Since the grounding terminals for the receptacles are not grounded, you must mark the receptacles with the words “GFCI Protected” and “No Equipment Ground” (see Sidebar: Understanding GFCIs).
Let’s talk about the last two options. A GFCI-protected grounding-type receptacle without an equipment-grounding conductor is safer than a grounding-type receptacle with an equipment-grounding conductor, but without GFCI protection. This is because the GFCI protection device will clear a ground-fault when the fault current is 5mA (+ or - 1mA), which is less than the current level necessary to cause serious electric shock or electrocution.
A grounding-type receptacle without a ground is a safe installation, as long as the protection circuitry within the GFCI device has not failed from shorts or voltage transients."
posted by H21 at 1:26 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]
If you're willing to make the exchange, my model of the Instant Pot came with an ungrounded plug.
posted by telegraph at 1:31 PM on April 28, 2017
posted by telegraph at 1:31 PM on April 28, 2017
+1 for GFCI
OTOH in most of the supposedly grounded outlets, I later noticed they just slapped on new faceplates, while the outlets aren't actually grounded. I'm furious. But that's another story
Do you mean they put in a 3-prong plug but didn't ground it? That's a building code violation, and pretty dangerous. You said it was a while ago, so may be water under the bridge at this point, but If you hired a licensed electrician for this work you may want to contact your city about this. S/he could (and should!) get in some pretty hot water.
posted by Frayed Knot at 3:58 PM on April 28, 2017
OTOH in most of the supposedly grounded outlets, I later noticed they just slapped on new faceplates, while the outlets aren't actually grounded. I'm furious. But that's another story
Do you mean they put in a 3-prong plug but didn't ground it? That's a building code violation, and pretty dangerous. You said it was a while ago, so may be water under the bridge at this point, but If you hired a licensed electrician for this work you may want to contact your city about this. S/he could (and should!) get in some pretty hot water.
posted by Frayed Knot at 3:58 PM on April 28, 2017
Response by poster: The link cited by TheAdamist and H21 goes on to discuss the "nightmare" of Knob-and-tube wiring, and that's what I've got (it's all modern around the circuit breaker in the basement, but we didn't open all the walls to rip out every inch). And it says "By design, GFCI testers will not test a GFCI that’s protecting a 2-wire circuit."
Any further advice for me? Again, my concern is whether genuinely grounded outlets even can be installed in such a situation (which I think pertains to many/most houses this old).
posted by Quisp Lover at 4:24 PM on April 28, 2017
Any further advice for me? Again, my concern is whether genuinely grounded outlets even can be installed in such a situation (which I think pertains to many/most houses this old).
posted by Quisp Lover at 4:24 PM on April 28, 2017
Can outlets actually be made to be grounded - without $$$$ work - in a 1913 house?
I am not anybody's electrician.
Depends. If there is a ground, e.g. water pipe, close by, it may be easy. If not, it may be hard (meaning expensive).
IMHO, you need an electrician.
posted by SemiSalt at 4:54 PM on April 28, 2017
I am not anybody's electrician.
Depends. If there is a ground, e.g. water pipe, close by, it may be easy. If not, it may be hard (meaning expensive).
IMHO, you need an electrician.
posted by SemiSalt at 4:54 PM on April 28, 2017
If you're looking to install a grounded outlet in the kitchen, it shouldn't be too difficult -- they ground it to your pipes, and your kitchen has those. You may be limited in where you can place it inexpensively, but it shouldn't be outrageous.
I've been slowly upgrading my house's outlets (generally whenever we have to have some unrelated electrical work done, we have them upgrade an outlet or two while they're here) and while there have been a few that can't really be fixed, mostly it's not too difficult or expensive. And we moved in to straight-up 1950 wiring and had to get the panel replaced to be able to get insurance. Nothing was grounded except in the kitchen.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:07 PM on April 28, 2017
I've been slowly upgrading my house's outlets (generally whenever we have to have some unrelated electrical work done, we have them upgrade an outlet or two while they're here) and while there have been a few that can't really be fixed, mostly it's not too difficult or expensive. And we moved in to straight-up 1950 wiring and had to get the panel replaced to be able to get insurance. Nothing was grounded except in the kitchen.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:07 PM on April 28, 2017
GFI protects people. Ground protects equipment.
A surge protector power strip provides little to no protection if not plugged into a grounded outlet as any "surge" is dissipated via the ground wire.
We plug our Instant Pot into a ungrounded, GFI outlet and all is good.
posted by LoveHam at 5:27 PM on April 28, 2017
A surge protector power strip provides little to no protection if not plugged into a grounded outlet as any "surge" is dissipated via the ground wire.
We plug our Instant Pot into a ungrounded, GFI outlet and all is good.
posted by LoveHam at 5:27 PM on April 28, 2017
TheAdamist: "I am not an electrician, but I believe you can replace the outlet with a GFCI outlet for some protection. http://m.ecmweb.com/content/replacing-2-wire-ungrounded-receptacles"
This and +1 to everyone else who suggested it. Make sure to affix the "No equipment ground" stickers that come with the GFCI receptacles to any repecptacles used this way. Installed properly the GFCI will also protect all down stream devices. Is it possible this is what your electrician did without affixing the stickers?
flibbertigibbet: "Buy a 10$ receptable checker. You can plug it into your outlet. It will have lights telling you if an outlet is grounded, or if it has some sort of fault.
"
These testers are pretty useless if a system has been tampered with by a hack as there are several ways to trick the testers without actually providing a ground.
Quisp Lover: " And it says "By design, GFCI testers will not test a GFCI that’s protecting a 2-wire circuit.""
This is true. Legally the only way to test a GFCI is with the built in test button and the built in tester will work in a two wire installation.
posted by Mitheral at 7:37 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
This and +1 to everyone else who suggested it. Make sure to affix the "No equipment ground" stickers that come with the GFCI receptacles to any repecptacles used this way. Installed properly the GFCI will also protect all down stream devices. Is it possible this is what your electrician did without affixing the stickers?
flibbertigibbet: "Buy a 10$ receptable checker. You can plug it into your outlet. It will have lights telling you if an outlet is grounded, or if it has some sort of fault.
"
These testers are pretty useless if a system has been tampered with by a hack as there are several ways to trick the testers without actually providing a ground.
Quisp Lover: " And it says "By design, GFCI testers will not test a GFCI that’s protecting a 2-wire circuit.""
This is true. Legally the only way to test a GFCI is with the built in test button and the built in tester will work in a two wire installation.
posted by Mitheral at 7:37 PM on April 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Mitheral,
So I need an electrician to install the GFCI (and have him doublecheck the previous guy's work), correct?
posted by Quisp Lover at 10:58 PM on April 28, 2017
So I need an electrician to install the GFCI (and have him doublecheck the previous guy's work), correct?
posted by Quisp Lover at 10:58 PM on April 28, 2017
Swapping out a receptacle is within the range of an electrically handy DIY person but it never hurts to get an Electrician in either. And they will be able to advise you on the safety of your current installation better than anyone over the internet.
posted by Mitheral at 6:51 AM on April 29, 2017
posted by Mitheral at 6:51 AM on April 29, 2017
Hiring an electrician to check/fix the previous guy's work might not be a bad idea, but swapping out an outlet is a pretty easy DIY task: kill the power at the breaker box, remove the old outlet, unhooking the wires from the posts, screw the wires onto the posts of your new outlet (possibly stripping and trimming them first if they're looking frayed), install new outlet in wall. There are a lot of ways to screw up home electrical wiring if you're fussing with wire runs or the breaker box itself, but swapping an outlet's a pretty easy fix with very little potential for grievous harm.
posted by jackbishop at 6:57 AM on April 29, 2017
posted by jackbishop at 6:57 AM on April 29, 2017
Response by poster: Thanks to both of you. I'm pretty sure I could do that. Will any GFCI from a hardware store do?
posted by Quisp Lover at 7:02 AM on April 29, 2017
posted by Quisp Lover at 7:02 AM on April 29, 2017
Response by poster: I may opt for this. Would be nice to upgrade to quad plugs, but the current is two plugs, and the cut-out requires the same size face plate.
posted by Quisp Lover at 8:41 AM on April 29, 2017
posted by Quisp Lover at 8:41 AM on April 29, 2017
I'm still not an electrician.
If you follow the links on the Leviton page, you can get to here from which you can download the instruction "manual". Proceed only if this makes complete sense to you.
The instructions are based on the current practice which goes back to... maybe 1980. The electricity comes to the junction box in a cable containing three wires: hot, neutral, and ground. These are identified by color. If the wiring on this circuit really comes from the days of old Tom Edison, it's not so easy to sort them out. You would not have a ground, but you want to be sure to connect hot to hot and neutral to neutral.
If by any chance, this circuit was wired in the mid-20th century, the electricity may come to the box in a single, metal-clad cable. The hot and neutral are color coded. The metal cladding is the ground, and is probably fastened to the metal junction box. The usual practice [i think] would be to run a bare wire from the GFI to the box.
posted by SemiSalt at 10:03 AM on April 29, 2017
If you follow the links on the Leviton page, you can get to here from which you can download the instruction "manual". Proceed only if this makes complete sense to you.
The instructions are based on the current practice which goes back to... maybe 1980. The electricity comes to the junction box in a cable containing three wires: hot, neutral, and ground. These are identified by color. If the wiring on this circuit really comes from the days of old Tom Edison, it's not so easy to sort them out. You would not have a ground, but you want to be sure to connect hot to hot and neutral to neutral.
If by any chance, this circuit was wired in the mid-20th century, the electricity may come to the box in a single, metal-clad cable. The hot and neutral are color coded. The metal cladding is the ground, and is probably fastened to the metal junction box. The usual practice [i think] would be to run a bare wire from the GFI to the box.
posted by SemiSalt at 10:03 AM on April 29, 2017
If you are going to the trouble to put in a new GFCI receptacle, you may as well spend a few more dollars and put in a dual function GFCI and AFCI. The first protects against ground faults, which can shock you. The second protects against arc faults which can start a fire.
The latest code for new construction (not your case) requires both ground fault and arc fault protection.
posted by JackFlash at 11:03 AM on April 29, 2017
The latest code for new construction (not your case) requires both ground fault and arc fault protection.
posted by JackFlash at 11:03 AM on April 29, 2017
Response by poster: Ok, returning the other and ordering that! :)
posted by Quisp Lover at 4:38 PM on April 30, 2017
posted by Quisp Lover at 4:38 PM on April 30, 2017
Response by poster: I had a 200amp service upgrade, including installation of 15/20amp Branch Circuit Breakers and 15/20AMP Dedicated Branch Circuits
Does that mean I should get the 20 amp version of that Leviton AFCI/GFCI receptacle?
posted by Quisp Lover at 4:46 PM on April 30, 2017
Does that mean I should get the 20 amp version of that Leviton AFCI/GFCI receptacle?
posted by Quisp Lover at 4:46 PM on April 30, 2017
Best answer: 1) Take a good look at the relative sizes of the GFCI only vs the combo device. Your house probably has relatively small electrical outlet boxes and the difference in size can make it more difficult to fit the combo device which is generally larger (you might have real problems stuffing the gfci in as it is). Also if you are planning to use the device to protect additional receptacles down stream you may find that that AFCI won't reset/trips all the time. The difference in safety is pretty minimal (whole house AFCI (IE every standard receptacle and light) is estimated to prevent 3 deaths in Canada annually so you can see where protecting a single outlet isn't going to have a huge impact) so I wouldn't sweat it if you go with the GFCI only for fitment reasons.
2) Unless you are absosmurfly positive that all wiring between your new device location and the breaker panel is #12 (along with a 20A breaker) I'd stick with 15A devices when replacing 15A (IE: two vertical blades) devices. It's safe to put 15A receptacles on a 20A circuit but not the other way around.
posted by Mitheral at 7:54 AM on May 1, 2017
2) Unless you are absosmurfly positive that all wiring between your new device location and the breaker panel is #12 (along with a 20A breaker) I'd stick with 15A devices when replacing 15A (IE: two vertical blades) devices. It's safe to put 15A receptacles on a 20A circuit but not the other way around.
posted by Mitheral at 7:54 AM on May 1, 2017
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posted by TheAdamist at 1:23 PM on April 28, 2017 [3 favorites]