Traditional cable TV experience without traditional cable TV?
April 23, 2017 7:28 PM Subscribe
In typing this out, it feels like a human relations question, but this is actually a question seeking help in finding a screen + TV content.
There is an older family member who is now spending more time at young family members' homes. The younger family members either do not have a TV or have a TV set but use devices (Roku, AppleTV, Fire Stick/whatever) for streaming from Netflix/Hulu/Amazon/whatever. Older family member is easily frustrated by Netflix/Hulu/whatever. They don't like having to (GETTING TO!!!!!!) choose whatever show they want to watch. They don't like searching. They don't like clicking. They want to turn on the TV and watch what is on. (Yes, I know that many people enjoy the exact opposite.) In fact, older family member likes that some younger family members have an HD antenna for Super Bowl/Awards shows and will just channel surf through the dozen or so HD over the air options, despite there being oodles of content on the Roku box. But older family member is visibly dissatisfied with the limited options of the HD antenna.
Older family member is quite grumpy about this situation, which is impacting everyone, but younger family members all have fiber or DSL and have absolutely no interest in paying for cable TV just because older family member visits ever-so-often.
Also, older family member likes the TV being on all of the time and this goes against the values (and sometimes rules for children) in younger family members' homes. Older family member turns on the TV early in the morning and wants it to stay on all day until late until the night. The younger family members with TVs have one set, in the main living area, and tolerate this TV watching behavior to varying degrees. But as older family member starts spending more time in younger family members' homes, this might be an issue. Older family member has not responded well in the past when asked to turn off the TV or change the content to something more age-appropriate for the children walking in and out of the room (in particular, the news). Older family member does have a smartphone but doesn't trust it or like using it. Older family member has access to their spouse's iPad but gets frustrated by it very quickly.
Current issue: A younger family member with no TV and fiber Internet is going to be hosting older family member for an extended period of time and is trying to find a TV solution. We need to balance what older family member wants (exactly how it works on their cable TV set up at home) and cost and sustainability.
SCREEN ISSUE:
Younger family member has no TV to speak of, but does have:
- An older Microsoft Surface (but the downside is that the screen is small)
- A 24" monitor that younger family member uses for work daily, but could sacrifice for a period of time if really needed
- A projector that is brought out on rare occasions for movie nights and is usually plugged into a laptop temporarily (but adults in younger family member's home need those laptops for work and things regularly)
Younger family member is willing to:
- Buy a cheaper flat screen for the guest house where older family member will be staying. They are not willing to put a TV in the main house.
CONTENT ISSUE:
- The over the air HD antenna might satisfy older family member's needs, at least temporarily.
- Most younger family members do have Netflix accounts and some younger family members have Hulu and Amazon accounts and on occasion will share their logins with siblings.
- But older family member, as described above, hates these things and in times where it has been suggested that they are, in fact, pretty cool, gets very negative.
- Older family member's home cable TV provider is a small one with no "take it with you" on your tablet/laptop plan for TV content.
- Sling TV and YouTube TV might be options, but they're pretty expensive given that older family member is only visiting for a few weeks at a time.
Given all of this, what would you do? (Outside of screaming "You don't need to watch the fucking TV!" or "Join the 21st century!!")
It seems to me that cheap flat screen + HD antenna is possibly the cheapest, easiest, and most sustainable solution. But maybe there are things out there that I don't know much about like Sling TV or YouTube TV.
There is an older family member who is now spending more time at young family members' homes. The younger family members either do not have a TV or have a TV set but use devices (Roku, AppleTV, Fire Stick/whatever) for streaming from Netflix/Hulu/Amazon/whatever. Older family member is easily frustrated by Netflix/Hulu/whatever. They don't like having to (GETTING TO!!!!!!) choose whatever show they want to watch. They don't like searching. They don't like clicking. They want to turn on the TV and watch what is on. (Yes, I know that many people enjoy the exact opposite.) In fact, older family member likes that some younger family members have an HD antenna for Super Bowl/Awards shows and will just channel surf through the dozen or so HD over the air options, despite there being oodles of content on the Roku box. But older family member is visibly dissatisfied with the limited options of the HD antenna.
Older family member is quite grumpy about this situation, which is impacting everyone, but younger family members all have fiber or DSL and have absolutely no interest in paying for cable TV just because older family member visits ever-so-often.
Also, older family member likes the TV being on all of the time and this goes against the values (and sometimes rules for children) in younger family members' homes. Older family member turns on the TV early in the morning and wants it to stay on all day until late until the night. The younger family members with TVs have one set, in the main living area, and tolerate this TV watching behavior to varying degrees. But as older family member starts spending more time in younger family members' homes, this might be an issue. Older family member has not responded well in the past when asked to turn off the TV or change the content to something more age-appropriate for the children walking in and out of the room (in particular, the news). Older family member does have a smartphone but doesn't trust it or like using it. Older family member has access to their spouse's iPad but gets frustrated by it very quickly.
Current issue: A younger family member with no TV and fiber Internet is going to be hosting older family member for an extended period of time and is trying to find a TV solution. We need to balance what older family member wants (exactly how it works on their cable TV set up at home) and cost and sustainability.
SCREEN ISSUE:
Younger family member has no TV to speak of, but does have:
- An older Microsoft Surface (but the downside is that the screen is small)
- A 24" monitor that younger family member uses for work daily, but could sacrifice for a period of time if really needed
- A projector that is brought out on rare occasions for movie nights and is usually plugged into a laptop temporarily (but adults in younger family member's home need those laptops for work and things regularly)
Younger family member is willing to:
- Buy a cheaper flat screen for the guest house where older family member will be staying. They are not willing to put a TV in the main house.
CONTENT ISSUE:
- The over the air HD antenna might satisfy older family member's needs, at least temporarily.
- Most younger family members do have Netflix accounts and some younger family members have Hulu and Amazon accounts and on occasion will share their logins with siblings.
- But older family member, as described above, hates these things and in times where it has been suggested that they are, in fact, pretty cool, gets very negative.
- Older family member's home cable TV provider is a small one with no "take it with you" on your tablet/laptop plan for TV content.
- Sling TV and YouTube TV might be options, but they're pretty expensive given that older family member is only visiting for a few weeks at a time.
Given all of this, what would you do? (Outside of screaming "You don't need to watch the fucking TV!" or "Join the 21st century!!")
It seems to me that cheap flat screen + HD antenna is possibly the cheapest, easiest, and most sustainable solution. But maybe there are things out there that I don't know much about like Sling TV or YouTube TV.
Response by poster: Clarification - this issue exists at multiple houses but the issue at hand involves an extended visit to a house with no TV at all.
Everyone is very happy with their far cheaper fiber or dsl connections and no one wants to move to more expensive cable Internet, after everyone moved off of it. Fiber is $40/month here.
posted by k8t at 8:29 PM on April 23, 2017
Everyone is very happy with their far cheaper fiber or dsl connections and no one wants to move to more expensive cable Internet, after everyone moved off of it. Fiber is $40/month here.
posted by k8t at 8:29 PM on April 23, 2017
PlayStation Vue, Sling, and DirecTV Now are your best options. If you have a computer monitor that takes an HDMI input you can use a Fire TV, Roku, Mi Box, Apple TV, or Shield TV for them, in various combinations, without buying an actual TV set, or use their Android/iOS apps on a tablet.
Vue is probably the most like traditional TV in terms of the interface.
Another option is to use a Shield TV with a USB TV tuner stick to pump OTA channels into the Shield's Live Channels app. The Mi Box will also have that capability whenever Xaomi gets around to releasing Nougat for the Mi Box. There is a beta version floating around, so it is almost certainly coming, but isn't out yet, so the Shield TV is currently the only Android TV box that will do OTA channels without an (much more expensive than a USB stick) HDHomerun network tuner.
posted by wierdo at 8:45 PM on April 23, 2017
Vue is probably the most like traditional TV in terms of the interface.
Another option is to use a Shield TV with a USB TV tuner stick to pump OTA channels into the Shield's Live Channels app. The Mi Box will also have that capability whenever Xaomi gets around to releasing Nougat for the Mi Box. There is a beta version floating around, so it is almost certainly coming, but isn't out yet, so the Shield TV is currently the only Android TV box that will do OTA channels without an (much more expensive than a USB stick) HDHomerun network tuner.
posted by wierdo at 8:45 PM on April 23, 2017
My personal choice would be to buy a tv for the guest house and tell older family member that they are welcome to set up whatever service they want for that tv with the caveat that they(older family member ) do the leg work of getting the service installed, and the service is under their name and they pay for the service. No one else is going to be using that service most likely so it seems fair that the older family member pay for it. I think its ridiculous to be a guest in someone's house and expect your every whim to be cstered to.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 8:45 PM on April 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 8:45 PM on April 23, 2017 [5 favorites]
Does OFM have cable? We had a grandparent stay at our house for a few weeks recently. She watches TV in the time-tested fashion of flipping through channels when her shows (some QVC stuff and any game shows she can find) aren't on. We watch... basically no TV, except for sports, and don't have Netflix or Hulu or anything like that, so it was not going to be a great fit.
Thankfully, we were able to use our parents' cable login information to get a reasonable facsimile of cable TV on the computer we have plugged into our TV. (It was called "Watch Spectrum," in our case, I think.) Once you're logged in you get live TV and a channel guide—not all the channels in your package, but a lot of the basic ones, and significantly more than we get over the air. It's a little harder to navigate than regular cable, since you aren't using your remote—but if their cable provider has a Roku or an Apple TV app, that might be much easier than just running it in a Chrome window like we did. The experience overall is about like you'd get with Sling or Playstation Vue, only you won't have to pay for it again.
I would find some family member that does have cable and look into their providers' options for using cable out of the house.
posted by Polycarp at 8:46 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Thankfully, we were able to use our parents' cable login information to get a reasonable facsimile of cable TV on the computer we have plugged into our TV. (It was called "Watch Spectrum," in our case, I think.) Once you're logged in you get live TV and a channel guide—not all the channels in your package, but a lot of the basic ones, and significantly more than we get over the air. It's a little harder to navigate than regular cable, since you aren't using your remote—but if their cable provider has a Roku or an Apple TV app, that might be much easier than just running it in a Chrome window like we did. The experience overall is about like you'd get with Sling or Playstation Vue, only you won't have to pay for it again.
I would find some family member that does have cable and look into their providers' options for using cable out of the house.
posted by Polycarp at 8:46 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Pluto TV, maybe? It's free and has channels that make you "watch what is on." It's basically a streaming service imitating a very basic cable package.
posted by faster than a speeding bulette at 8:51 PM on April 23, 2017
posted by faster than a speeding bulette at 8:51 PM on April 23, 2017
Response by poster: @polycarp they have an odd cable provider (wowway) that doesn't have any "take it with you" login. But otherwise that would be a great idea.
posted by k8t at 8:54 PM on April 23, 2017
posted by k8t at 8:54 PM on April 23, 2017
How much would it cost to switch OFM to a provider that does have that kind of plan? Could everyone pitch in a few bucks a month? Then OFM could watch whatever they want. They'd be less grumpy. Maybe they'd be more amenable to learning how to use e.g. Chromecast or something to get it from their phone to a TV?
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:55 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by cotton dress sock at 8:55 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
You say that Sling, Youtube etc are expensive if the family member is only visiting for several weeks at a time, but you can just deactivate the service when they're not around. It's a monthly bill, so you just have to keep track of the day that it renews and plan accordingly. That's what I do with Vue (which I quite like, btw).
posted by acidic at 9:00 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by acidic at 9:00 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I didn't put this in the original post and realized that it is probably relevant -
The guest house is an unofficial, not zoned for, tiny house (basically a very nice and insulated shed) with a composting toilet and brown water system, so the plumbing is not tied to the main house. The electricity was hooked up with some creativity. The Internet is an extender that sucks (I was just there for the past few days and it worked poorly and I too was grumpy, as my mobile phone provider doesn't have great service in their neighborhood). I would be willing to help other sibling have a better repeater system and/or get a mobile hotspot for the guest house/backyard in general for when I visit that would benefit everyone. But with this setup, even if they did switch to cable Internet, it is unlikely that they could get a cable hookup out there, given the structure's quasi legal status.
Also, sibling in question has only medium level technical skills and maintaining and troubleshooting a more elaborate system would suck for them.
I'm thinking cheap TV and HD antenna and a good dose of suck it up might be a good way to go.
posted by k8t at 9:04 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
The guest house is an unofficial, not zoned for, tiny house (basically a very nice and insulated shed) with a composting toilet and brown water system, so the plumbing is not tied to the main house. The electricity was hooked up with some creativity. The Internet is an extender that sucks (I was just there for the past few days and it worked poorly and I too was grumpy, as my mobile phone provider doesn't have great service in their neighborhood). I would be willing to help other sibling have a better repeater system and/or get a mobile hotspot for the guest house/backyard in general for when I visit that would benefit everyone. But with this setup, even if they did switch to cable Internet, it is unlikely that they could get a cable hookup out there, given the structure's quasi legal status.
Also, sibling in question has only medium level technical skills and maintaining and troubleshooting a more elaborate system would suck for them.
I'm thinking cheap TV and HD antenna and a good dose of suck it up might be a good way to go.
posted by k8t at 9:04 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Yeah, unlike cable (and, frankly, I think $30 all-in for a cable bill that is anything other than reproducing OTA offerings is ... optimistic), you can easily turn Sling or Vue or Youtube off as needed, as they're month-to-month services. No equipment to rent or return, either.
posted by praemunire at 9:06 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 9:06 PM on April 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
Most tv stations have their own websites with live streaming these days, but you have to log in with your cable TV login. I just checked the ones I use (VH1, FX, and NBC) and they all allow logins from the WOW! provider (woway.com). You could get a cheap TV with a Roku Stick. The Roku is pretty simple (especially if you set up their stations ahead of time) and comes with a remote which will be a familiar interface for them. The TV stations would just show up in a menu. They select the channel, select live, and start watching TV.
Pros: No subscription fee. Can keep a channel on all day. Simple interface/instructions.
Cons: Not TV (no channel flipping). One time costs (TV + $30 Roku stick)
posted by Garm at 9:09 PM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Pros: No subscription fee. Can keep a channel on all day. Simple interface/instructions.
Cons: Not TV (no channel flipping). One time costs (TV + $30 Roku stick)
posted by Garm at 9:09 PM on April 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
Just FYI, WOW! cable TV does support logging in to multiple channels' web sites and apps: http://www.wowway.com/support/tv/online-tv
But I agree with my fellows. If you want the most cable-like of experiences, a Roku stick—the newer, slimline black one, not the older purple one or the Roku Express—with Sling (DirecTV NOW is not supported on Roku and PlayStation Vue's Roku interface is pitiful) is the cheapest and easiest way to go.
To be honest, this is exactly how I use my DirecTV NOW subscription on my Apple TV. It is "cable over Internet" that I can use as a live "background noise" of sorts and to watch MLB Network.
posted by fireoyster at 1:17 AM on April 24, 2017
But I agree with my fellows. If you want the most cable-like of experiences, a Roku stick—the newer, slimline black one, not the older purple one or the Roku Express—with Sling (DirecTV NOW is not supported on Roku and PlayStation Vue's Roku interface is pitiful) is the cheapest and easiest way to go.
To be honest, this is exactly how I use my DirecTV NOW subscription on my Apple TV. It is "cable over Internet" that I can use as a live "background noise" of sorts and to watch MLB Network.
posted by fireoyster at 1:17 AM on April 24, 2017
We created a similar situation with a Slingbox (different from Sling TV) back in the days when TV over the Internet was barely technically feasible, much less an everyday occurence.
The way it works is there is a box that plugs into OFM's cable box and Internet router at home and sends whatever is on their TV to any Internet-connected screen, anywhere in the world.
Advantages:
* It is exactly the same as their home cable service, down to channel numbers and everything.
* No monthly fees, assuming OFM has decent Internet service at home.
Disadvantages:
* Setup is fiddly, and it would be OFM doing the setup.
* If something goes wrong with it while OFM is travelling, there's not much that can be done remotely to troubleshoot.
* It can conflict with DVR recordings on OFM's cable box, if that's a concern.
* The Slingbox itself costs $99
* I don't think Slingbox is doing great in the new cordcutting world, so the service might end at some point.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:15 AM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
The way it works is there is a box that plugs into OFM's cable box and Internet router at home and sends whatever is on their TV to any Internet-connected screen, anywhere in the world.
Advantages:
* It is exactly the same as their home cable service, down to channel numbers and everything.
* No monthly fees, assuming OFM has decent Internet service at home.
Disadvantages:
* Setup is fiddly, and it would be OFM doing the setup.
* If something goes wrong with it while OFM is travelling, there's not much that can be done remotely to troubleshoot.
* It can conflict with DVR recordings on OFM's cable box, if that's a concern.
* The Slingbox itself costs $99
* I don't think Slingbox is doing great in the new cordcutting world, so the service might end at some point.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:15 AM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
We, like Rock Steady, have the slingbox. It sounds like exactly what OFM wants. It's OFM's own cable TV, just as they see it at home, relayed through the internet so they can watch anywhere they have internet. Whatever can show up on their TV at home, that's what they can watch. The on-screen controls are even visually identical to the remote control the cable company gave them. Someone will probably have to go to OFM's house to set it up - it's like hooking up a stereo, with cables and stuff, but then there's an internet setup process. (Does OFM even have internet at home? Potential show-stopper for this plan.)
So then, you just need to solve the reliable internet in the guest house issue and put a cheap chromebook or something in there to watch it on. It doesn't sound like a space that needs a big screen.
posted by ctmf at 9:33 AM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
So then, you just need to solve the reliable internet in the guest house issue and put a cheap chromebook or something in there to watch it on. It doesn't sound like a space that needs a big screen.
posted by ctmf at 9:33 AM on April 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
put a cheap chromebook or something in there to watch it on
Slingbox has a Roku app, which I think would be a more OFM-friendly experience. Do you have any reliability issues with yours, ctmf? When I did it around 8 or 10 years ago, residential upload speeds were barely sufficient for video, and the Slingbox itself needed to be rebooted or otherwise jimmied with fairly often, which would have been a problem if I had not been local.
posted by Rock Steady at 10:40 AM on April 24, 2017
Slingbox has a Roku app, which I think would be a more OFM-friendly experience. Do you have any reliability issues with yours, ctmf? When I did it around 8 or 10 years ago, residential upload speeds were barely sufficient for video, and the Slingbox itself needed to be rebooted or otherwise jimmied with fairly often, which would have been a problem if I had not been local.
posted by Rock Steady at 10:40 AM on April 24, 2017
Very occasionally, say, every couple of months, my wife has an issue I need to troubleshoot. It's never turned out to be the box, always the receiving end software or computer needs a force quit/restart. (Or the cable's just plain out and being there wouldn't help.) She uses it at home daily to carry her laptop from room to room watching.
posted by ctmf at 10:50 AM on April 24, 2017
posted by ctmf at 10:50 AM on April 24, 2017
Is it possible that OFM might not want to be spending the day essentially isolated in a "very nice" shed? The issue might be that he/she wants to watch tv AND be in the midst of family goings on.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 11:26 AM on April 24, 2017
posted by TWinbrook8 at 11:26 AM on April 24, 2017
What about plain old Over-The-Air teevee? You get a Mohu Leaf or some other decent antenna, your tv probably is set up so you can choose the source of the signal. Geezer can watch whatever stations come in reliably. When it's time for netflix, you change the source to hdmi. Sadly, I don't get my local PBS station, otherwise, OTA is quite serviceable. I had to tune in stations on a clear day, and in crap weather, the low-power local 'junk' stations aren't available. The antenna was @ 25 bucks on sale. TV is digital-signal-ready.
disclainer: I, too, am a geezer.
posted by theora55 at 1:05 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
disclainer: I, too, am a geezer.
posted by theora55 at 1:05 PM on April 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
I just started up with Playstation Vue and we like it so far. You still have to go into Apple TV/Roku/Fire Stick/etc. and open the app, but then it's live TV with a pretty easy to navigate guide. We're planning to augment with an HD antenna so we can get PBS and local channels. There are no contracts so it would be easy enough for the younger folks to sign up for a month's service whenever the older person is visiting and just cancel it afterwards.
posted by cabingirl at 1:56 PM on April 24, 2017
posted by cabingirl at 1:56 PM on April 24, 2017
Response by poster: Thanks all. This was really helpful.
The plan is now to get a small cheap flat screen and get an HD antenna. Then wait and see if OFM is okay with this set up. If they are not, then we go back to thinking about extending the internet out to the tiny house and figuring out the best solution then.
OFM is coming to my house in a month and a half. I need to set up new profiles on all my various streaming apps so that their incessant surfing doesn't mess up my recommendations. I've been removing things from my Hulu watchlist for 2 months.
posted by k8t at 4:36 PM on April 25, 2017
The plan is now to get a small cheap flat screen and get an HD antenna. Then wait and see if OFM is okay with this set up. If they are not, then we go back to thinking about extending the internet out to the tiny house and figuring out the best solution then.
OFM is coming to my house in a month and a half. I need to set up new profiles on all my various streaming apps so that their incessant surfing doesn't mess up my recommendations. I've been removing things from my Hulu watchlist for 2 months.
posted by k8t at 4:36 PM on April 25, 2017
For extending the network, a pair of Ubiquiti NanoStations would probably do the trick for about $150. Super easy if you have line of sight between a window in the house and one in the outbuilding. As a bonus, you will get much better reception in the space between buildings.
Amazon carries them, so if they don't work out for whatever reason, returns are relatively hassle free.
posted by wierdo at 11:10 PM on April 26, 2017
Amazon carries them, so if they don't work out for whatever reason, returns are relatively hassle free.
posted by wierdo at 11:10 PM on April 26, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
If this were my family member I would consider spending the $20-30/mo that cable costs to set it up in the guest house a remarkably low price for peace of mind. Or have them pay for it if it's really a money thing. This is about what services like Sling or Playstation VUE would cost you. TVs are basically free. This sounds a lot more like a culture war than anything else. I have a (younger) sibling who really prefers having cable. I am a cord cutter. Your family member has told you what their preferences are and despite them being a grump about it, there's not going to be something else that is going to magically make them happy if they're the grumpy guest type. You are also being a grump about this. So you can go one of two ways
- Get cable and lump it. If this IS a multiple house thing get them cable somewhere they can take it with them to other sibs' places and have everyone chip in
- Decide guest is not going to be happy no matter what and tell them that HD antenna is what they have and put a TV in the guest house so they can have it on all the time if they want.
In either case, it's totally 100% ok to have house tv rules that apply to everyone including guests if guests are visiting for multiple weeks. Boundaries may help this situation from feeling like it's outside of your control and making them clear ahead of time. I know family stuff is tough but part of the solution to your problem is getting a little more space from whatever is at the root of this issue. Six exclamation points is too many for any question about television.
posted by jessamyn at 7:53 PM on April 23, 2017 [2 favorites]