Did you read that book? Well, no...
April 17, 2017 9:32 AM Subscribe
I have a very difficult time following through on cultural recommendations from others, even when I want to. I'm sure it is related to control issues, which I am working on in therapy. In the meantime, how do I get over the hump here?
Book clubs. Borrowed books. TV show recommendations. I rebel. Even when I try to white knuckle it, my mind wanders terribly the whole time. This even happened with Firefly. I kept falling asleep. The show actually seems very interesting to me, so this is a bummer. Ideas?
Book clubs. Borrowed books. TV show recommendations. I rebel. Even when I try to white knuckle it, my mind wanders terribly the whole time. This even happened with Firefly. I kept falling asleep. The show actually seems very interesting to me, so this is a bummer. Ideas?
Response by poster: Fingersandtoes, it appears with some of these cultural items like I am uninterested BECAUSE they like it. Firefly has lots of appealing themes and elements for my taste, and yet I have this inner hipster that says not to participate because everyone else is doing it.
You're right that it isn't for everything. Sometimes people recommend something specifically for me, and I can appreciate those experiences. But then I come back to circumstances of books, TV, movies that fit my taste but my body rebels against them. Maybe I should reconsider the why as you said.
Practically, I have been invited to participate in a book club and it seems interesting but that means reading someone else's notion of a good book so I have a wall to climb. Should have mentioned in the OP.
posted by crunchy potato at 9:50 AM on April 17, 2017
You're right that it isn't for everything. Sometimes people recommend something specifically for me, and I can appreciate those experiences. But then I come back to circumstances of books, TV, movies that fit my taste but my body rebels against them. Maybe I should reconsider the why as you said.
Practically, I have been invited to participate in a book club and it seems interesting but that means reading someone else's notion of a good book so I have a wall to climb. Should have mentioned in the OP.
posted by crunchy potato at 9:50 AM on April 17, 2017
Maybe you could look at it as being made aware of a good thing you might not have known about, rather than someone telling you what to do? How do you normally find out about good things you might enjoy, if not through trusted recommendations?
posted by something something at 9:57 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by something something at 9:57 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
For what it's worth, I don't get the appeal of book clubs either.
For me, I know I have very specific/niche tastes in books, so I tend to ignore "omg, you must read this" recommendations from people - even friends whose tastes I generally like. I prefer to find out about things on my own - an author of a book I like might mention another author who admires a third author and so down the rabbit hole I go. As a rule, this works out so much better than if I try to follow friends' recommendations.
I have often felt like a terrible person for not wanting to join a watch-a-thon or a book club, but I also feel that life is too short to force myself through a book that other people have decided for me that I must read & love (hello American Gods, how much I loathed thee and how often people have looked at me like I'm a giant traitor for not enjoying you).
In short, I think I'm possibly the worst person to comment on this thread as I just feel like hi-5'ing you (although Firefly is actually brilliant and good, and I recommend it!).
posted by kariebookish at 10:04 AM on April 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
For me, I know I have very specific/niche tastes in books, so I tend to ignore "omg, you must read this" recommendations from people - even friends whose tastes I generally like. I prefer to find out about things on my own - an author of a book I like might mention another author who admires a third author and so down the rabbit hole I go. As a rule, this works out so much better than if I try to follow friends' recommendations.
I have often felt like a terrible person for not wanting to join a watch-a-thon or a book club, but I also feel that life is too short to force myself through a book that other people have decided for me that I must read & love (hello American Gods, how much I loathed thee and how often people have looked at me like I'm a giant traitor for not enjoying you).
In short, I think I'm possibly the worst person to comment on this thread as I just feel like hi-5'ing you (although Firefly is actually brilliant and good, and I recommend it!).
posted by kariebookish at 10:04 AM on April 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
It sounds like I'm similar to you, and I want to give both you and kariebookish high fives! A friend once said to me that giving someone a book as a gift is like giving them a pet without asking permission, and I agree. I find that I only have a limited amount of time to read the trillions of books that I'm interested in and that I tend to resent the heck out of recommendations from friends. I have said this to people who recommend me things, though in much more polite terms, and at this point my friends ask for my recommendations and don't mind if I don't follow theirs.
I do think my own behavior could be related to control issues; I kinda hate the idea of a book club since I want to read books at my own pace. I am happy to discuss books I've read with others if it's not on a set timeframe, though.
If you really wanna work to take people up on their recommendations, at least for TV/movies, I suggest seeing if they would like to watch with you. I virtually never watch TV of my own volition but have enjoyed episodes of shows when watching with the recommenders.
posted by ferret branca at 10:13 AM on April 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
I do think my own behavior could be related to control issues; I kinda hate the idea of a book club since I want to read books at my own pace. I am happy to discuss books I've read with others if it's not on a set timeframe, though.
If you really wanna work to take people up on their recommendations, at least for TV/movies, I suggest seeing if they would like to watch with you. I virtually never watch TV of my own volition but have enjoyed episodes of shows when watching with the recommenders.
posted by ferret branca at 10:13 AM on April 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Oh man, I felt this way for the longest time about Deep Space Nine. I love Star Trek. People I love and whose opinions I respect were recommending it to me with exalted looks on their faces. I'd happen upon random articles/essays about how it was/is the bestest of the best of the best of Star Trek hands down, bar none, thank you very much.
I still didn't really want to watch it. And then I tried a couple of times (borrowed a season from my local library) but the return date always caught me before I was more than a few eps in -- and I never cared.
I think that maybe in the face of overwhelming praise, I get a companion feeling along with the possible hipsterism or stubborn holdout-ism (if that's a thing), something like, well, the love for this thing (DS9, or Firefly, or whatever) is clearly well-trodden ground. Everyone likes the thing, so even if I don't care for it, the quality or appeal of it isn't in question. It's a sure thing. (And no danger, especially in the case of older media or books, that it needs support or is in danger of being cancelled, etc.) Therefore, I don't feel any urgency about it. It'll be around when or if I ever get to it. I'd probably be more inclined to watch something if there was a lot of dissent on the quality or appeal. I don't think this is the same as being contrary, but there's some of that in there, too.
(Disclaimer PS: I waited on Firefly and wished I'd watched it sooner when I finally DID get around to it. I'm also finally watching DS9 right now -- on Netflix, definitely no urgency there -- and am loving it. Sometimes I'm not ready until I'm ready. If that's you, too, then don't feel bad about it. My friends are willing to put up with my so so so belated tweets and questions about DS9, Twin Peaks, etc.)
posted by pepper bird at 10:19 AM on April 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
I still didn't really want to watch it. And then I tried a couple of times (borrowed a season from my local library) but the return date always caught me before I was more than a few eps in -- and I never cared.
I think that maybe in the face of overwhelming praise, I get a companion feeling along with the possible hipsterism or stubborn holdout-ism (if that's a thing), something like, well, the love for this thing (DS9, or Firefly, or whatever) is clearly well-trodden ground. Everyone likes the thing, so even if I don't care for it, the quality or appeal of it isn't in question. It's a sure thing. (And no danger, especially in the case of older media or books, that it needs support or is in danger of being cancelled, etc.) Therefore, I don't feel any urgency about it. It'll be around when or if I ever get to it. I'd probably be more inclined to watch something if there was a lot of dissent on the quality or appeal. I don't think this is the same as being contrary, but there's some of that in there, too.
(Disclaimer PS: I waited on Firefly and wished I'd watched it sooner when I finally DID get around to it. I'm also finally watching DS9 right now -- on Netflix, definitely no urgency there -- and am loving it. Sometimes I'm not ready until I'm ready. If that's you, too, then don't feel bad about it. My friends are willing to put up with my so so so belated tweets and questions about DS9, Twin Peaks, etc.)
posted by pepper bird at 10:19 AM on April 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
High-five party!
Yeah, we've gotten into a much more group-thinky world now with book clubs and watch-a-thons and recommendations on a whole and I'm not sure why. To me, it's homework and I am far beyond that phase of life. (I also get grumpy at the book club questions at the end of every book.) Plus, serial recommenders always seem to think that what they're recommending is the BEST THING EVER *coughFireflycough* and ... okay settle down.
I have no problems finding my own books to read, by gleaning info from podcasts, reading all of an author's work, etc. When offered a book or DVD to borrow & discuss, I politely demur by saying I have far too much on my to-be-read/watched list to get to their suggestion, but thanks so much for thinking of me! And that's true.
You deserve to spend your hard-won free time reading/watching whatever you want. You shouldn't have to white-knuckle your way through entertainment.
posted by kimberussell at 10:30 AM on April 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Yeah, we've gotten into a much more group-thinky world now with book clubs and watch-a-thons and recommendations on a whole and I'm not sure why. To me, it's homework and I am far beyond that phase of life. (I also get grumpy at the book club questions at the end of every book.) Plus, serial recommenders always seem to think that what they're recommending is the BEST THING EVER *coughFireflycough* and ... okay settle down.
I have no problems finding my own books to read, by gleaning info from podcasts, reading all of an author's work, etc. When offered a book or DVD to borrow & discuss, I politely demur by saying I have far too much on my to-be-read/watched list to get to their suggestion, but thanks so much for thinking of me! And that's true.
You deserve to spend your hard-won free time reading/watching whatever you want. You shouldn't have to white-knuckle your way through entertainment.
posted by kimberussell at 10:30 AM on April 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Would it be worth asking WHY you want to get over this? I mean, for some folks part of the fun of certain shows/books/movies is getting to talk about them with other fans, but if that isn't your thing that's okay. As has already been said, there are indeed a near-infinite number of books, shows, etc. out there, so if you don't consume things that you don't want to consume ... nothing about the world is changed. The fandoms will continue on without you, and even if you miss something you could have liked under different circumstances, that doesn't mean you're missing the ONLY thing you could like - again, there's plenty of stuff out there if part of your enjoyment derives from a certain level of obscurity in what you consume.
The book clubs will go on without you, and you'll go on without them. Maybe by not pressuring yourself to consume certain things - by realizing that it truly doesn't matter whether you do or don't - it'll be easier to give something popular a try when you decide you actually DO want to do so.
posted by DingoMutt at 10:48 AM on April 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
The book clubs will go on without you, and you'll go on without them. Maybe by not pressuring yourself to consume certain things - by realizing that it truly doesn't matter whether you do or don't - it'll be easier to give something popular a try when you decide you actually DO want to do so.
posted by DingoMutt at 10:48 AM on April 17, 2017 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I feel you on this. For me, I try really hard to balance if I am turned off of something because everybody loves it or if because I actually don't like it. There's a lot of overlap, but sometimes there are things that I avoid because of the hype that do I end up liking much later, once people have moved on to the next hot thing. There's a lot of baggage in that I try to balance being a contrarian with my own particular tastes.
So when people recommend things, I try to demure and deflect. It really sucks when my friends are super excited about something I know I won't like and they don't get the hint to stop trying to get me to watch it. I will probably always hate Firefly because I was forced to watch the first batch of episodes because my friend just knew I'd love it! (I think mild dislike went to full on hate.) Recently it was somebody who was sure I would love Santa Clarita Diet, even though it seems to embody so many things I hate in TV. No matter, she loves it. It only became an issue when I had to firmly tell her to stop telling me to watch it because it's not going to happen.
But my point is I think it's OK to avoid things because people won't shut up about them. I also agree recommendations are fraught and loaded. Try to be open to things and be conscious if you're avoiding something to be contrarian or because you actually don't like it. You don't have to share media experiences with people if you don't want to. Lots of people will move on to the next thing and forget the recommendation and you can move on with whatever you actually want to consume. It can be tricky because a lot of the recommendations can feel like an extension of the person, so rejecting Firefly can be seen as rejecting them, but you're not them and they're not you. Not everybody has to read the same books and watch the same films.
posted by kendrak at 10:59 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
So when people recommend things, I try to demure and deflect. It really sucks when my friends are super excited about something I know I won't like and they don't get the hint to stop trying to get me to watch it. I will probably always hate Firefly because I was forced to watch the first batch of episodes because my friend just knew I'd love it! (I think mild dislike went to full on hate.) Recently it was somebody who was sure I would love Santa Clarita Diet, even though it seems to embody so many things I hate in TV. No matter, she loves it. It only became an issue when I had to firmly tell her to stop telling me to watch it because it's not going to happen.
But my point is I think it's OK to avoid things because people won't shut up about them. I also agree recommendations are fraught and loaded. Try to be open to things and be conscious if you're avoiding something to be contrarian or because you actually don't like it. You don't have to share media experiences with people if you don't want to. Lots of people will move on to the next thing and forget the recommendation and you can move on with whatever you actually want to consume. It can be tricky because a lot of the recommendations can feel like an extension of the person, so rejecting Firefly can be seen as rejecting them, but you're not them and they're not you. Not everybody has to read the same books and watch the same films.
posted by kendrak at 10:59 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Well, just with regard specifically to the book club thing: there are different ways of running book clubs. I'm in two book clubs. In both of them, books are chosen with consideration of member preferences; and there's no penalty for not liking a book - we've had plenty of lively, enjoyable discussions about why some of us hated certain books. It's more about getting together for a discussion of something that we have a common interest in, and/or drinking wine and having tasty snacks. So you may find that not wanting to agree with someone else about what's a good book, isn't a problem at all in the context of a book club (as long as you don't hate ALL of them because that's tiresome for everyone.)
As far as rebelling against "everyone's doing it," my suggestion would be to let go of other people's opinions as a standard. You wouldn't like something just because someone else does, right? So why should you hate it just because they like it, either? People respond to different aspects of art. It might help to focus on analyzing what elements you like or don't like as you're experiencing something. As an example - I love the series Girls because I find that it holds up an insightful mirror to some of the dynamics I remember from being in my 20s; and I love that Lena D dares to be naked and sexual and visible with her not-TV-standard body; those are the elements that shape my enjoyment of the show, and I don't care what other people's are. Maybe if you focused on exactly what you like or don't like as you're reading/watching, you can let go of other people's opinions as a criterion.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:01 AM on April 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
As far as rebelling against "everyone's doing it," my suggestion would be to let go of other people's opinions as a standard. You wouldn't like something just because someone else does, right? So why should you hate it just because they like it, either? People respond to different aspects of art. It might help to focus on analyzing what elements you like or don't like as you're experiencing something. As an example - I love the series Girls because I find that it holds up an insightful mirror to some of the dynamics I remember from being in my 20s; and I love that Lena D dares to be naked and sexual and visible with her not-TV-standard body; those are the elements that shape my enjoyment of the show, and I don't care what other people's are. Maybe if you focused on exactly what you like or don't like as you're reading/watching, you can let go of other people's opinions as a criterion.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:01 AM on April 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also - don't feel like consuming a particular show or book means you need to discuss it with other people. I love the Game of Thrones books, but I don't like the level of discussion that typically goes on about them, so I don't discuss them with people other than my husband, who happens to have a point of view that's close to mine. I don't even discuss them with the friend who recommended the series to me, since he doesn't grok it the way I do. It's ok.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:04 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:04 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
So I think the "it's perfectly OK to reject the things everyone else likes if you don't like them/no one should be forcing recommendations on you" angle has been well covered. Plus: you are a busy person. You have a job and, IIRC, a young baby. It's perfectly OK for you to be stingy with the little free time you have, reading and watching the things YOU want to watch.
But in case you are looking for more than validation--in case you actually do feel this is *just* a knee-jerk reaction against perceived attempts to control, and it's causing you distress--you could look at it this way: when you reject something out of hand just because someone else rejected it, you're still allowing yourself to be controlled by an external influence. Your automatic rejection is controlling you because it leaves no room for you to try something *you* actually like.
You could try reframing each suggestion from someone else by telling yourself, "I think this sounds interesting. I'm going to try it to see if I'm right" instead of "I guess I'll try watching this because Kate said I'll like it."
And if you actually want to be part of a book club, go for it! Just find out ahead of time if it's a big deal if you don't end up reading everything. The one I'm in doesn't bat an eye if some people don't finish the book, and there are several of us who will quickly abandon a book that is not our cup of tea. Life is too short and I have too many other things I want to read. My book club is about socializing, and if I happen to read the book so I can participate in the discussion, great! But not all book clubs are like that and you don't want to be part of one that frowns on anyone who doesn't finish a book, or treats it like homework.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:35 AM on April 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
But in case you are looking for more than validation--in case you actually do feel this is *just* a knee-jerk reaction against perceived attempts to control, and it's causing you distress--you could look at it this way: when you reject something out of hand just because someone else rejected it, you're still allowing yourself to be controlled by an external influence. Your automatic rejection is controlling you because it leaves no room for you to try something *you* actually like.
You could try reframing each suggestion from someone else by telling yourself, "I think this sounds interesting. I'm going to try it to see if I'm right" instead of "I guess I'll try watching this because Kate said I'll like it."
And if you actually want to be part of a book club, go for it! Just find out ahead of time if it's a big deal if you don't end up reading everything. The one I'm in doesn't bat an eye if some people don't finish the book, and there are several of us who will quickly abandon a book that is not our cup of tea. Life is too short and I have too many other things I want to read. My book club is about socializing, and if I happen to read the book so I can participate in the discussion, great! But not all book clubs are like that and you don't want to be part of one that frowns on anyone who doesn't finish a book, or treats it like homework.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:35 AM on April 17, 2017 [4 favorites]
Does it make a difference when the recommendations come from random people you don't know and who aren't directly addressing you (e.g., you read an askme where someone wants recs for a new game/book/tv show - are you able to enjoy the things there that appeal to you?), as opposed to friends who are like "You gotta read/watch/play this!"?
On the one hand, you are under no obligation to like anything you don't like, you know? On the other, not liking something solely because "everyone" likes it isn't rational, and, as you recognize, can be totally counterproductive.
posted by rtha at 11:38 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
On the one hand, you are under no obligation to like anything you don't like, you know? On the other, not liking something solely because "everyone" likes it isn't rational, and, as you recognize, can be totally counterproductive.
posted by rtha at 11:38 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]
Another high-five from here.
I think kimberussell really nails it: it's weird how people seem to insist that you watch X show or read Y book and treat you like some sort of weirdo or something if you don't. I grew weary of the whole "You don't watch The Sopranos?? How can you even exist?!?!" stuff about 20 years ago and I don't like it any better now. And this may get me run off Metafilter on a rail, but if I have to hear another word about Hamilton from anyone, including my niece and nephew, I'm going to tear my power cord out of the wall and go on a rampage.
So FWIW, I don't think it's related to control issues. I really have zero control issues; I just happen to dislike a lot of stuff (not all of it, but a lot of it) people seem to have approved as the Very Important Cultural Experiences of Our Time. You certainly don't have to engage in a self-criticism session and decide it's a failing of yours because you're too "controlling." There's nothing wrong with letting people have their own opinions and move on.
The only thing I tend to stumble on is politely or gently telling people that I'm not interested in talking about Game of Thrones or Hamilton or LCD Soundsystem or what have you. After a bunch of trial and error, I've found that the phrase that works pretty well is: "I've actually never been able to get interested in such and such." That's a fairly neutral phrase that seems to satisfy people I've tried to watch such and such and don't care for it, but it's my own "fault," so to speak, and I'm not trashing something they love.
posted by holborne at 12:01 PM on April 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
I think kimberussell really nails it: it's weird how people seem to insist that you watch X show or read Y book and treat you like some sort of weirdo or something if you don't. I grew weary of the whole "You don't watch The Sopranos?? How can you even exist?!?!" stuff about 20 years ago and I don't like it any better now. And this may get me run off Metafilter on a rail, but if I have to hear another word about Hamilton from anyone, including my niece and nephew, I'm going to tear my power cord out of the wall and go on a rampage.
So FWIW, I don't think it's related to control issues. I really have zero control issues; I just happen to dislike a lot of stuff (not all of it, but a lot of it) people seem to have approved as the Very Important Cultural Experiences of Our Time. You certainly don't have to engage in a self-criticism session and decide it's a failing of yours because you're too "controlling." There's nothing wrong with letting people have their own opinions and move on.
The only thing I tend to stumble on is politely or gently telling people that I'm not interested in talking about Game of Thrones or Hamilton or LCD Soundsystem or what have you. After a bunch of trial and error, I've found that the phrase that works pretty well is: "I've actually never been able to get interested in such and such." That's a fairly neutral phrase that seems to satisfy people I've tried to watch such and such and don't care for it, but it's my own "fault," so to speak, and I'm not trashing something they love.
posted by holborne at 12:01 PM on April 17, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh man, I felt this way for the longest time about Deep Space Nine. I love Star Trek. People I love and whose opinions I respect were recommending it to me with exalted looks on their faces.
I think pepper bird expressed this in a way that really captures the feeling. One's inner voice might be saying, deep down, "No, I don't want to join your religion." And "No, I don't want to work in your multilevel marketing machine." (of book sharing.)
Exaggerating for humor.
posted by puddledork at 2:55 PM on April 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
I think pepper bird expressed this in a way that really captures the feeling. One's inner voice might be saying, deep down, "No, I don't want to join your religion." And "No, I don't want to work in your multilevel marketing machine." (of book sharing.)
Exaggerating for humor.
posted by puddledork at 2:55 PM on April 17, 2017 [2 favorites]
Things are going to be boring even if it may fall into your general sphere of what you might find interesting. I should have been all about Firefly or Twin Peaks at the time given my other geeky interests but I still haven't made it through more than a few episodes with that white knuckle determination you speak of. That whole 50 Shades nonsense? I was in fandom circles that mocked it when the first scripts started being passed around so I couldn't take any of it once the mass-market fervor began. And could it be that somewhere there's a part of you that looks at these people enjoying a thing and wanting to be like that person enjoying a thing so socially? And then it winds up being a case of "it'd be nice to be the kind of person who does that sort of thing but the very practice of it puts me to sleep".
I don't think there's a hump you need to get over here beyond the idea of what you think you should be instead of what you are. You're a person who has interests that skirt the genres that everyone proffers to you. That's a preference, not a hump. :)
posted by missh at 8:21 AM on April 18, 2017
I don't think there's a hump you need to get over here beyond the idea of what you think you should be instead of what you are. You're a person who has interests that skirt the genres that everyone proffers to you. That's a preference, not a hump. :)
posted by missh at 8:21 AM on April 18, 2017
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I ask for a few reasons:
1. your specific reaction is going to be a factor in how you deal with it. Like if you are angry that your mother would dare to recommend a book to you (why?); then that's different than if you hate being in a book club (why?) or if you feel alienated or looked down on for having different taste than a highbrow-tasted friend (why?). Each of those would have a different kind of thought pattern to overcome.
2. My experience is that my own tastes crystallized in my 30s and are now highly specific. There's only one or two people in the world who know me well enough to predict what I'll like, and other folks' tastes are irredeemably foreign. I don't spend time on books/shows that aren't to my taste because I have so little bandwidth to spare, and I think that's pretty typical of busy people as we get older. So I'm a little skeptical that this is as much about control as it is about just not being interested in what other people like... but you know best about your own reactions, so see 1. above if I'm wrong :)
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:42 AM on April 17, 2017 [1 favorite]