Where's our invitation?
March 31, 2017 2:11 PM Subscribe
We have been part of a very close knit group of families that all met through our kids' school. We are mostly in our 40's (some 30s and 50s). We have all been friends for years. I have been very active in keeping the families together and socializing now that our kids have scattered to different places.
One family (The Family) has a second waterfront property and we used to be invited a 4 or 5 times a year to go stay with them and were always included when they would invite a group of the families out to camp on their property.
I have noticed for the last year (or more?) that while we are always offered their vacation place to use ourselves, we have not been invited out there to spend time with The Family. I have also heard that other families have been out there, which I completely understand and am fine with...I get that we will not be included in everything. I just have been feeling a little weird about it for awhile. Once, when they offered again for us to use their place, I thanked them and mentioned that it would be fun to go out there with them again. They agreed. I have said nothing since.
Other than this, nothing seems weird. We were invited to join The Family with their extended family over the holidays at a different fun vacation spot (we got our own lodging). The Family joined us twice in the last year when we went to two different vacation spots and they stayed with us at our invitation. I am taking their child on a weeklong trip several hours from our home this summer so that our kids can attend a summer camp.
But I just picked up their kid from school and found out a lot of the close knit group (and 2 peripheral families too), 6 families in total, were out camping at The Family's second home last weekend and I am supremely bummed out that we were not included.
These are very kind and decent people. The Family do not act as though they have ANY problems with us otherwise. They are always warm and kind. They are our child's guardian if something happens to us -- that is how we feel about The Family. The Family are aware of struggles we have had as a family (alcoholism) and have always been super supportive, yet we have not leaned on them in relation to that much at all. I only mention it in that they know more than most people, not that we have actively engaged them in it. Their interactions with it were negligible (two minor times) and they do not coincide with the lack of invites.
My question is can I ask The Family if something is going on and ask why we have not been included in invites out to their second home? That seems so incredibly tacky but it really feels like something is going on. I am taking this so hard and if there is a reason they are not including us, I would like to fix it. My friends are my family as my family is not in my life and my husband's is negligible at best, which I know contributes. And my feelings of abandonment due to my family, well, abandoning me, are more heightened than others. As a side note, because they will be our son's guardians, I would like for him to spend as much time with The Family as possible.
What if anything can I do? Are therapy and just accepting it the only options?
I have noticed for the last year (or more?) that while we are always offered their vacation place to use ourselves, we have not been invited out there to spend time with The Family. I have also heard that other families have been out there, which I completely understand and am fine with...I get that we will not be included in everything. I just have been feeling a little weird about it for awhile. Once, when they offered again for us to use their place, I thanked them and mentioned that it would be fun to go out there with them again. They agreed. I have said nothing since.
Other than this, nothing seems weird. We were invited to join The Family with their extended family over the holidays at a different fun vacation spot (we got our own lodging). The Family joined us twice in the last year when we went to two different vacation spots and they stayed with us at our invitation. I am taking their child on a weeklong trip several hours from our home this summer so that our kids can attend a summer camp.
But I just picked up their kid from school and found out a lot of the close knit group (and 2 peripheral families too), 6 families in total, were out camping at The Family's second home last weekend and I am supremely bummed out that we were not included.
These are very kind and decent people. The Family do not act as though they have ANY problems with us otherwise. They are always warm and kind. They are our child's guardian if something happens to us -- that is how we feel about The Family. The Family are aware of struggles we have had as a family (alcoholism) and have always been super supportive, yet we have not leaned on them in relation to that much at all. I only mention it in that they know more than most people, not that we have actively engaged them in it. Their interactions with it were negligible (two minor times) and they do not coincide with the lack of invites.
My question is can I ask The Family if something is going on and ask why we have not been included in invites out to their second home? That seems so incredibly tacky but it really feels like something is going on. I am taking this so hard and if there is a reason they are not including us, I would like to fix it. My friends are my family as my family is not in my life and my husband's is negligible at best, which I know contributes. And my feelings of abandonment due to my family, well, abandoning me, are more heightened than others. As a side note, because they will be our son's guardians, I would like for him to spend as much time with The Family as possible.
What if anything can I do? Are therapy and just accepting it the only options?
Best answer: They did invite you over the holidays, and you have been taking them with you. They are doing things with you.
It's very possible that one of the families who joined them this past weekend was someone that they've always wanted to bring into the circle, and gave them a chance this time. Or maybe they got confused and thought you had something else going on and couldn't make it.
And if it's just this once incident, I wouldn't worry about it - it's very possible that this was just a one-off. Especially since they already have other plans with you already.
Wait and see, I would advise.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:19 PM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
It's very possible that one of the families who joined them this past weekend was someone that they've always wanted to bring into the circle, and gave them a chance this time. Or maybe they got confused and thought you had something else going on and couldn't make it.
And if it's just this once incident, I wouldn't worry about it - it's very possible that this was just a one-off. Especially since they already have other plans with you already.
Wait and see, I would advise.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:19 PM on March 31, 2017 [6 favorites]
Best answer: My question is can I ask The Family if something is going on and ask why we have not been included in invites out to their second home? That seems so incredibly tacky but it really feels like something is going on.
Oh my goodness, trust your instincts here. That would be tacky. They are still offering to let you use their place, although without them? Who knows what could be going on here but it sounds like they still like you, and all you can do is make this situation more awkward by asking. And I'm an Ask Culture person! I feel like you know it's tacky and you want someone to say, oh, no, go ahead and ask. You don't have any claim on their time or their vacation home, so you have to just roll with it.
posted by fiercecupcake at 2:32 PM on March 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh my goodness, trust your instincts here. That would be tacky. They are still offering to let you use their place, although without them? Who knows what could be going on here but it sounds like they still like you, and all you can do is make this situation more awkward by asking. And I'm an Ask Culture person! I feel like you know it's tacky and you want someone to say, oh, no, go ahead and ask. You don't have any claim on their time or their vacation home, so you have to just roll with it.
posted by fiercecupcake at 2:32 PM on March 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
You seem to indicate you have been friends with all the families who are part of this group for years. How are you getting along with the other families these days? Do you see any of those families separate from The Family's gatherings?
Since the main Family seems to still be friendly to you and wants to hang out with you in ways other than the group gatherings, it would suggest there are one of two things going on:
1. One or more of the other families has a problem with you. Personality clash, or drama between their kids and yours, or maybe just some jealous shit-stirring.
2. Something about the way you or your kids interact as part of the group causes some kind of unpleasant vibe for the rest of the group, that does not happen when your family and The Family hang out together separately from the rest.
I would definitely give some thought to the state of your relationships with these other families rather than assuming The Family has the issue.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:48 PM on March 31, 2017 [32 favorites]
Since the main Family seems to still be friendly to you and wants to hang out with you in ways other than the group gatherings, it would suggest there are one of two things going on:
1. One or more of the other families has a problem with you. Personality clash, or drama between their kids and yours, or maybe just some jealous shit-stirring.
2. Something about the way you or your kids interact as part of the group causes some kind of unpleasant vibe for the rest of the group, that does not happen when your family and The Family hang out together separately from the rest.
I would definitely give some thought to the state of your relationships with these other families rather than assuming The Family has the issue.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:48 PM on March 31, 2017 [32 favorites]
Best answer: if there is a reason they are not including us, I would like to fix it
That's probably why they haven't told you anything.
One thing about dealing with awkward social situations is that when things are complicated, trying to explain with a simple and polite excuse is just going to cause trouble. I'm not quite the fan of "that won't be possible" that some people here at AskMe seem to be, but they recommend it because it's inescapable. If you look at "how to say no" resources, one common thread is do not give an excuse - as soon as you hide behind a polite fiction ("oh, I'd help you paint your house, but we don't have anyone to watch the baby") that allows the other person to "fix" your excuse ("The irresponsible neighbor kid will handle it, here's a paintbrush"), and then you just have to writhe around trying to weasel out of the hole you're digging, or do something that you didn't mean to agree to.
There's unlikely to be a real "something going on" between you and the Family, but for a minute let's imagine there was. Once they tell you (some awkward polite version of) what's bothering them, you apologize and promise not to do that again (or whatever). Is it really "fixed"? Are they now required to invite you? Will that be a fun vacation or super-awkward?
My point is, there might be something to smooth over (agreed with others, it's more likely another family than the hosts), but you can't approach it like a bargaining table.
posted by aimedwander at 2:50 PM on March 31, 2017 [19 favorites]
That's probably why they haven't told you anything.
One thing about dealing with awkward social situations is that when things are complicated, trying to explain with a simple and polite excuse is just going to cause trouble. I'm not quite the fan of "that won't be possible" that some people here at AskMe seem to be, but they recommend it because it's inescapable. If you look at "how to say no" resources, one common thread is do not give an excuse - as soon as you hide behind a polite fiction ("oh, I'd help you paint your house, but we don't have anyone to watch the baby") that allows the other person to "fix" your excuse ("The irresponsible neighbor kid will handle it, here's a paintbrush"), and then you just have to writhe around trying to weasel out of the hole you're digging, or do something that you didn't mean to agree to.
There's unlikely to be a real "something going on" between you and the Family, but for a minute let's imagine there was. Once they tell you (some awkward polite version of) what's bothering them, you apologize and promise not to do that again (or whatever). Is it really "fixed"? Are they now required to invite you? Will that be a fun vacation or super-awkward?
My point is, there might be something to smooth over (agreed with others, it's more likely another family than the hosts), but you can't approach it like a bargaining table.
posted by aimedwander at 2:50 PM on March 31, 2017 [19 favorites]
It sounds like you have a lot to focus on without worrying about them. IF there is a reason they're not 100% including you in everything, they have decided not to burden you with it. That is a gift to you, or at least it can be. You don't have to focus on it, or them, or their reactions right now. You can focus on your own family or your other friends, and appreciate the many gifts that knowing them has given you. If you poke at this and insist on making them deal with this and possibly (only slightly possibly) hurting your feelings, you're, in a sense, defeating the gift.
That said, you know yourself best. If you absolutely must, you must; just know that there is an opportunity here to just not do it and things will be fine.
posted by amtho at 2:55 PM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
That said, you know yourself best. If you absolutely must, you must; just know that there is an opportunity here to just not do it and things will be fine.
posted by amtho at 2:55 PM on March 31, 2017 [1 favorite]
Could they be rotating in some new families so that those people have a chance to experience the second home? If so, maybe your family will be rotated back in after the new people have had some experiences there.
posted by delight at 3:00 PM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by delight at 3:00 PM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I am taking this so hard and if there is a reason they are not including us, I would like to fix it. My friends are my family as my family is not in my life and my husband's is negligible at best, which I know contributes. And my feelings of abandonment due to my family, well, abandoning me, are more heightened than others. As a side note, because they will be our son's guardians, I would like for him to spend as much time with The Family as possible.
I think this is the part you can control and work on in the equation.
Friendships go through seasons. I have lifelong friends that can show up at 2 am anytime and will get my full attention. But I don't actually always want to hang out with them the same way I did last year. Sometimes there's a good reason (the friend who parents her children in way that makes me upset) and sometimes there's just not as good a reason (a friend who is super into a hobby that I am not, that I am just a bit tired of hearing about right now.)
It sounds to me like your friends are in a different season.
When we make our own families out of friends (I have too) one thing that's easy to forget is that "family" is not always synonymous with "people we want to spend our vacation time with." That's the cultural story at play, that every Christmas is loving families frolicking together and summers at the cottage...but really, inside families, it doesn't always work that way -- and when it does, it isn't always healthy.
I am sorry for the abandonment you've suffered in your life and totally get why this is upsetting you but...I don't think it is actually going to help your long-term relationship to be focused on one specific type of annual activity.
In my opinion the best way to handle it is keep getting together with them in other ways, and just let the rest go. If you want your son to spend time with them, let them know (but if your son is getting towards adult age, be aware that they may not seem the same necessity for that kind of contact.) If the one week vacation is a huge deal, invite them on a different kind of vacation with you. But I would drop this one or I think you risk them feeling like you are forcing them through a ritual, and that may make the other invitations dry up.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:08 PM on March 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
I think this is the part you can control and work on in the equation.
Friendships go through seasons. I have lifelong friends that can show up at 2 am anytime and will get my full attention. But I don't actually always want to hang out with them the same way I did last year. Sometimes there's a good reason (the friend who parents her children in way that makes me upset) and sometimes there's just not as good a reason (a friend who is super into a hobby that I am not, that I am just a bit tired of hearing about right now.)
It sounds to me like your friends are in a different season.
When we make our own families out of friends (I have too) one thing that's easy to forget is that "family" is not always synonymous with "people we want to spend our vacation time with." That's the cultural story at play, that every Christmas is loving families frolicking together and summers at the cottage...but really, inside families, it doesn't always work that way -- and when it does, it isn't always healthy.
I am sorry for the abandonment you've suffered in your life and totally get why this is upsetting you but...I don't think it is actually going to help your long-term relationship to be focused on one specific type of annual activity.
In my opinion the best way to handle it is keep getting together with them in other ways, and just let the rest go. If you want your son to spend time with them, let them know (but if your son is getting towards adult age, be aware that they may not seem the same necessity for that kind of contact.) If the one week vacation is a huge deal, invite them on a different kind of vacation with you. But I would drop this one or I think you risk them feeling like you are forcing them through a ritual, and that may make the other invitations dry up.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:08 PM on March 31, 2017 [22 favorites]
Reading through the lines, I would guess the most likely reason is that one or more of the group camping families would like camping weekends to involve alcohol, but for obvious reasons your friends don't want to invite someone struggling (or who has past struggles) with alcoholism to an overnight event with drinking. That's probably double since there will be lots of kids around. They don't want to directly "uninvite" you so they've instead just invited you along to separate events that don't involve the other families. If that's the case, I don't think there's much to do except just enjoy your friendship in other settings and let folks have separate drinks-present weekends without you guys.
posted by rainbowbrite at 3:09 PM on March 31, 2017 [89 favorites]
posted by rainbowbrite at 3:09 PM on March 31, 2017 [89 favorites]
My friends are my family as my family is not in my life and my husband's is negligible at best, which I know contributes. And my feelings of abandonment due to my family, well, abandoning me, are more heightened than others.
My guess I'd they are picking up on this need of yours and pulling back somewhat.
There was another similar question just a few days ago and the same dynamic was at play: one central social person/family, a group of ebbing and flowing people/families in their orbit, and an Asker who wonders why the person they thought was their BFF isn't acting like it anymore. (Sorry cant link on my phone.)
Expand your social circle so you are not so reliant on this family and it is likely the invitations will pick back up again when this family doesn't feel that pressure anymore.
posted by headnsouth at 3:12 PM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
My guess I'd they are picking up on this need of yours and pulling back somewhat.
There was another similar question just a few days ago and the same dynamic was at play: one central social person/family, a group of ebbing and flowing people/families in their orbit, and an Asker who wonders why the person they thought was their BFF isn't acting like it anymore. (Sorry cant link on my phone.)
Expand your social circle so you are not so reliant on this family and it is likely the invitations will pick back up again when this family doesn't feel that pressure anymore.
posted by headnsouth at 3:12 PM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
I agree that their understanding of an alcoholism problem in your family is a contributing factor. And probably in a supportive, nonjudgmental way.
Their interactions with it were negligible (two minor times) and they do not coincide with the lack of invites.
Perhaps they didn't want it to be obvious that these two incidents were the issue.
posted by juliplease at 3:17 PM on March 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
Their interactions with it were negligible (two minor times) and they do not coincide with the lack of invites.
Perhaps they didn't want it to be obvious that these two incidents were the issue.
posted by juliplease at 3:17 PM on March 31, 2017 [12 favorites]
Say yes. Just say yes when someone asks to make plans, and make plans with folks you want to spend time with.
The less time spent worried about what they're thinking and what they're doing the better. There's absolutely nothing that can be done about that. This has helped me a lot. I can't do anything about what someone else thinks about me, apart from live a good life. And living a good life is worth it anyway, so why worry about anything else?
posted by billjings at 3:52 PM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
The less time spent worried about what they're thinking and what they're doing the better. There's absolutely nothing that can be done about that. This has helped me a lot. I can't do anything about what someone else thinks about me, apart from live a good life. And living a good life is worth it anyway, so why worry about anything else?
posted by billjings at 3:52 PM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
I'd missed the mention of alcoholism until juliplease mentioned it. Is it possible they just wanted to be able to have a few drinks around the campfire without feeling guilty or like they had to temper themselves? You might not have given them a reason to feel that way but sometimes people can be weird about addiction and stuff.
posted by cabingirl at 4:14 PM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by cabingirl at 4:14 PM on March 31, 2017 [2 favorites]
Can you explain more about what happened with the alcoholism discussion?
posted by medusa at 4:34 PM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by medusa at 4:34 PM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]
N'thing hat I definitely segregate friends visiting my cottage/home based on their vices and values. I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable, nor would I want to "out" anyone to anyone else ("why yes, we did have the Theriaults over for swinging with the Patels and Lees but I didn't invite you because I knew it wasn't your thing")
posted by saucysault at 5:06 PM on March 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 5:06 PM on March 31, 2017 [9 favorites]
Possible that the two minor alcoholism interactions were not so minor to them?
posted by studioaudience at 10:18 PM on March 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by studioaudience at 10:18 PM on March 31, 2017 [7 favorites]
struggles we have had as a family (alcoholism) ...they know more than most people, not that we have actively engaged them in it. Their interactions with it were negligible (two minor times) and they do not coincide with the lack of invites
For a lot of people, having to deal with incidents due to a friend's or guest's alcoholism is not minor. It might seem minor to you because you have had far more struggles with it as a family, but that doesn't mean other people perceive it as minor. This is even more true when being around other people's children.
The lack of invites could have come about later on after they thought about things a bit more. Or there may have been other things happen involving alcohol use, and their opinion of what could happen, that had nothing to do with you. I got a lot less tolerant of heavy or out of control alcohol use after I had to take someone to the hospital who had been drinking heavily -- it illuminated aspects of alcoholism that I hadn't really been aware of before.
Or it could be simply that they don't always want to socialize with the exact same group, or want to have other people over and don't have room for everyone. If you have friends with a nice house or pool or any other sort of thing people really want to be invited to, you need to be understanding that you can't always be invited. You should not bring it up.
because they will be our son's guardians, I would like for him to spend as much time with The Family as possible
Something about the way you are saying this makes it seem like you are thinking it's very likely they will be your son's guardians, rather than it being unlikely something would happen to you to cause them to assume guardianship. If you think something is likely to happen to you -- if both parents are fatally ill or something -- you really need to be discussing this with the potential guardians. Most of the time if someone agrees to be a guardian it's considered unlikely this will be necessary. Many people don't put a huge emphasis on having a child spend huge amounts of time with their designated guardian -- the guardian is not their parent, if you are capable of parenting you are supposed to be doing that. Your attitude towards this is a little creepy and goes beyond the usual obligations someone assumes as a guardian. If you haven't discussed this "spending as much time as possible" thing in advance, you are really overreaching here.
posted by yohko at 12:39 AM on April 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
For a lot of people, having to deal with incidents due to a friend's or guest's alcoholism is not minor. It might seem minor to you because you have had far more struggles with it as a family, but that doesn't mean other people perceive it as minor. This is even more true when being around other people's children.
The lack of invites could have come about later on after they thought about things a bit more. Or there may have been other things happen involving alcohol use, and their opinion of what could happen, that had nothing to do with you. I got a lot less tolerant of heavy or out of control alcohol use after I had to take someone to the hospital who had been drinking heavily -- it illuminated aspects of alcoholism that I hadn't really been aware of before.
Or it could be simply that they don't always want to socialize with the exact same group, or want to have other people over and don't have room for everyone. If you have friends with a nice house or pool or any other sort of thing people really want to be invited to, you need to be understanding that you can't always be invited. You should not bring it up.
because they will be our son's guardians, I would like for him to spend as much time with The Family as possible
Something about the way you are saying this makes it seem like you are thinking it's very likely they will be your son's guardians, rather than it being unlikely something would happen to you to cause them to assume guardianship. If you think something is likely to happen to you -- if both parents are fatally ill or something -- you really need to be discussing this with the potential guardians. Most of the time if someone agrees to be a guardian it's considered unlikely this will be necessary. Many people don't put a huge emphasis on having a child spend huge amounts of time with their designated guardian -- the guardian is not their parent, if you are capable of parenting you are supposed to be doing that. Your attitude towards this is a little creepy and goes beyond the usual obligations someone assumes as a guardian. If you haven't discussed this "spending as much time as possible" thing in advance, you are really overreaching here.
posted by yohko at 12:39 AM on April 5, 2017 [3 favorites]
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If you want to rebuild and keep an intimate connection with this family but for whatever reason the visits to their vacation home have stopped, you're going to have to do the hosting.
Also, check in with your kid. Is there a chance your children have had a falling out or their kid has become closer friends with the kids of the other families? That could be a reason to distance from you guys in favor of the others.
posted by phunniemee at 2:18 PM on March 31, 2017 [3 favorites]