Can my relationship with my mother-in-law be improved?
March 25, 2017 9:36 AM Subscribe
My mother-in-law is overbearing and my temperamental opposite. Can the relationship be improved, or should we just see each other even less than we do today?
My mother in-law lives on the other side of the country and we can't seem to get along for the 10 days a year that we see each other. She's generous enough to watch the kids so my wife and I can get away for a few days vacation each year, but our interactions are so tense that's likely to stop unless the relationship improves. Twice in the last 2 years, I've snapped at her when she interjected while I was talking to my kids.
Temperamentally, we couldn't be more different. I'm quiet, introverted, logical, independent, and future-oriented. In most conversations I'm likely to try to diffuse any drama. She's a stream of consciousness talker with a disorganized mind. She tends to contradict herself within the same sentence. She tends to talk nonstop. Her first priority is always to amp up the drama. This all makes conversations extremely difficult for both us, and almost subconsciously after 15 year of this, I tend to avoid talking to her.
She has great difficulty treating me and my wife like independent adults (we're in our late 30s, both work good jobs, have children, own a house). She is extremely focused on my wife's childhood - including regularly posting photos on Facebook from her childhood. She is unable to bite her tongue when she disagrees with our parenting decisions, and often is visibly upset (or tries to intervene) when we ask our kids to do chores or eat their vegetables. When we go on vacation she (unsolicited by us) asks all her friends where we should stay and what we should do, then writes out itineraries for us (which we ignore, though it's always hard for my wife to completely blow off her own mother). In subtle and not-so-subtle ways she makes it clear that she'd really rather I not be around (she's divorced and often expresses a negative view of marriage; she refers refers to her + my wife and kids as "our kids" or "just us"; she says bad things about where we live and talks about how much better my wife's hometown is). When I complain about being treated like a child (e.g. please don't tell me what to eat for breakfast or clear my plate while I'm still eating in my own house) she says she just can't help it b/c she's been an elementary school teacher for too long.
In many cases, she is just plain overbearing. She is the first (and usually only) commenter on nearly all of my Instagram and Facebook posts. In the past, she's done things like opened all our mail while she stayed, and solicited recommendations for contractors from our neighbors because she thinks we should renovate our bathroom, etc. She does not listen to household instructions like telling how the recycling works or asking not to put the expensive knives in the dishwasher. These are small things, but it all adds up to me feeling like she's not treating me like an adult human being.
On the one hand I feel like I'm being childish about all of this - who cares if my mother-in-law is a bit overbearing and treats me like a fourth grader? It doesn't really matter, she lives on the other side of the continent I should just ignore her. I'm a confident, successful, middle-aged man. I feel terrible about snapping at her, and I should find a way to not do it again. On the other hand, all of this really bothers me. Between temperamental stuff and the lack of acknowledgement as an adult, I feel besieged when she's around and end up lashing out. Just ignoring it all and somehow brushing it off is what I've been trying, but clearly it's no longer working. I would like to find ways to improve the relationship.
FWIW, my wife is supportive, but feels stuck in the middle. She tends to be more accepting of her mom, but has also backed me frequently in these spats. She also thinks I could lighten up (which is true). The trouble is her interventions have not really changed her mom's behavior, and at this point, she's tired of refereeing. It's emotionally exhausting for everyone.
If this relationship can be improved, how? If not, how do we best continue while minimizing the terrible feelings all around. I'm especially interested in answers from people with personal experience in this sort of situation.
My mother in-law lives on the other side of the country and we can't seem to get along for the 10 days a year that we see each other. She's generous enough to watch the kids so my wife and I can get away for a few days vacation each year, but our interactions are so tense that's likely to stop unless the relationship improves. Twice in the last 2 years, I've snapped at her when she interjected while I was talking to my kids.
Temperamentally, we couldn't be more different. I'm quiet, introverted, logical, independent, and future-oriented. In most conversations I'm likely to try to diffuse any drama. She's a stream of consciousness talker with a disorganized mind. She tends to contradict herself within the same sentence. She tends to talk nonstop. Her first priority is always to amp up the drama. This all makes conversations extremely difficult for both us, and almost subconsciously after 15 year of this, I tend to avoid talking to her.
She has great difficulty treating me and my wife like independent adults (we're in our late 30s, both work good jobs, have children, own a house). She is extremely focused on my wife's childhood - including regularly posting photos on Facebook from her childhood. She is unable to bite her tongue when she disagrees with our parenting decisions, and often is visibly upset (or tries to intervene) when we ask our kids to do chores or eat their vegetables. When we go on vacation she (unsolicited by us) asks all her friends where we should stay and what we should do, then writes out itineraries for us (which we ignore, though it's always hard for my wife to completely blow off her own mother). In subtle and not-so-subtle ways she makes it clear that she'd really rather I not be around (she's divorced and often expresses a negative view of marriage; she refers refers to her + my wife and kids as "our kids" or "just us"; she says bad things about where we live and talks about how much better my wife's hometown is). When I complain about being treated like a child (e.g. please don't tell me what to eat for breakfast or clear my plate while I'm still eating in my own house) she says she just can't help it b/c she's been an elementary school teacher for too long.
In many cases, she is just plain overbearing. She is the first (and usually only) commenter on nearly all of my Instagram and Facebook posts. In the past, she's done things like opened all our mail while she stayed, and solicited recommendations for contractors from our neighbors because she thinks we should renovate our bathroom, etc. She does not listen to household instructions like telling how the recycling works or asking not to put the expensive knives in the dishwasher. These are small things, but it all adds up to me feeling like she's not treating me like an adult human being.
On the one hand I feel like I'm being childish about all of this - who cares if my mother-in-law is a bit overbearing and treats me like a fourth grader? It doesn't really matter, she lives on the other side of the continent I should just ignore her. I'm a confident, successful, middle-aged man. I feel terrible about snapping at her, and I should find a way to not do it again. On the other hand, all of this really bothers me. Between temperamental stuff and the lack of acknowledgement as an adult, I feel besieged when she's around and end up lashing out. Just ignoring it all and somehow brushing it off is what I've been trying, but clearly it's no longer working. I would like to find ways to improve the relationship.
FWIW, my wife is supportive, but feels stuck in the middle. She tends to be more accepting of her mom, but has also backed me frequently in these spats. She also thinks I could lighten up (which is true). The trouble is her interventions have not really changed her mom's behavior, and at this point, she's tired of refereeing. It's emotionally exhausting for everyone.
If this relationship can be improved, how? If not, how do we best continue while minimizing the terrible feelings all around. I'm especially interested in answers from people with personal experience in this sort of situation.
she just can't help it b/c she's been an elementary school teacher for too long
This, unfortunately, is true. It's no excuse, but it's the truth. This is a "type", and she's too old to change, even if she wanted to (which she doesn't really, because she also happens to thinks she's right, because that's also part of the type.) Do keep in mind it literally has nothing to do with you. It is the type. This is one of the reasons she chose to spend her years around tiny people she can boss around; and now that she's been doing it for years that way of relating to other people is a core part of her being.
All you can do is just ignore it. Just don't respond when she chatters; don't respond when she criticizes. Only respond to stuff that doesn't bother you - when she says the weather's nice, grandchild is so smart, etc. The rest of the time you gotta get bees in your ears. The good news is, this gets much easier with practice. You are a duck, a neutrally-smiling waterproof duck with bees in your ears.
Although. if she is clearing, just shake your head and hold onto your plate. "Still eating" is all you need to say.
Source: I have a few of these types in my immediate family.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:06 AM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
This, unfortunately, is true. It's no excuse, but it's the truth. This is a "type", and she's too old to change, even if she wanted to (which she doesn't really, because she also happens to thinks she's right, because that's also part of the type.) Do keep in mind it literally has nothing to do with you. It is the type. This is one of the reasons she chose to spend her years around tiny people she can boss around; and now that she's been doing it for years that way of relating to other people is a core part of her being.
All you can do is just ignore it. Just don't respond when she chatters; don't respond when she criticizes. Only respond to stuff that doesn't bother you - when she says the weather's nice, grandchild is so smart, etc. The rest of the time you gotta get bees in your ears. The good news is, this gets much easier with practice. You are a duck, a neutrally-smiling waterproof duck with bees in your ears.
Although. if she is clearing, just shake your head and hold onto your plate. "Still eating" is all you need to say.
Source: I have a few of these types in my immediate family.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:06 AM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
You can't change others, you can just change yourself. I suggest making yourself scarce when she is around, accept that she will ruin your knives and undermine your parenting when you aren't there, and ignore, ignore, ignore.
As for her, she sounds bored. Would you consider giving her a project? For example - "we really need a new X, I wonder where we could find a new X?...MIL - do you know where we could find a new X?" and let her do her research piece on something that might actually be useful to you - or if not useful, will at least keep her busy...
Also, block her from social media or only let her see specific posts. If she asks, just say you got bored with social media and don't use it anymore.
posted by Toddles at 10:15 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
As for her, she sounds bored. Would you consider giving her a project? For example - "we really need a new X, I wonder where we could find a new X?...MIL - do you know where we could find a new X?" and let her do her research piece on something that might actually be useful to you - or if not useful, will at least keep her busy...
Also, block her from social media or only let her see specific posts. If she asks, just say you got bored with social media and don't use it anymore.
posted by Toddles at 10:15 AM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
oh, and the line to use when she contradicts you on parenting stuff in the kids' presence (because the kids will be looking to you for a response on who's right) is "nope, that's not the rule. The rule is X." or "this is how we do it."
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:25 AM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:25 AM on March 25, 2017 [23 favorites]
If she's "just like this", then she'll have tried to pull it with other people - friends, social acquaintances, at work, and it will have cost her. I bet she hasn't lost jobs over this and she manages to rein in it in with other people, which means she's making a choice about it.
She feels entitled to do this to your wife and by extension the rest of you, and that she's actively trying to undermine you is a serious issue. Your wife feels caught in the middle because your mother in law is trying to put her in the middle, and to press your wife to choose her over you, as seen in all the chat about "us and the kids", etc.
You need to have a serious talk with your wife as stated above. Talk about how much this is a problem for you and that she's actively undermining you and trying to play it off as "just how she is". Unfortunately your wife is going to have to be the one who stands up to her, because she's setting it up so that if you stand up to her she can play the victim and redouble anything she has to say to your wife about how terrible you are, you're so mean to your wife's poor mommy who is just trying to help and whyyyyyy can't you just be a little more understanding? She's playing a typical abuser's game where she either wants to gain control or make you freak out, with the end game being divorce. Your wife needs to shut her down. You need to get across to her how serious this is.
You also haven't mentioned the impact on your kids here, but I bet there is one. You should probably bring that up with your wife as part of the larger issue.
posted by bile and syntax at 10:25 AM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
She feels entitled to do this to your wife and by extension the rest of you, and that she's actively trying to undermine you is a serious issue. Your wife feels caught in the middle because your mother in law is trying to put her in the middle, and to press your wife to choose her over you, as seen in all the chat about "us and the kids", etc.
You need to have a serious talk with your wife as stated above. Talk about how much this is a problem for you and that she's actively undermining you and trying to play it off as "just how she is". Unfortunately your wife is going to have to be the one who stands up to her, because she's setting it up so that if you stand up to her she can play the victim and redouble anything she has to say to your wife about how terrible you are, you're so mean to your wife's poor mommy who is just trying to help and whyyyyyy can't you just be a little more understanding? She's playing a typical abuser's game where she either wants to gain control or make you freak out, with the end game being divorce. Your wife needs to shut her down. You need to get across to her how serious this is.
You also haven't mentioned the impact on your kids here, but I bet there is one. You should probably bring that up with your wife as part of the larger issue.
posted by bile and syntax at 10:25 AM on March 25, 2017 [18 favorites]
oh, and the line to use when she contradicts you on parenting stuff in the kids' presence (because the kids will be looking to you for a response on who's right) is "nope, that's not the rule. The rule is X." or "this is how we do it."
My line is : In our house we do it this way.
If questioned? My line is: It's not really up for negotiation.
Recycle and repeat. But most of all, after each encounter, move immediately on.
posted by Toddles at 10:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [24 favorites]
My line is : In our house we do it this way.
If questioned? My line is: It's not really up for negotiation.
Recycle and repeat. But most of all, after each encounter, move immediately on.
posted by Toddles at 10:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [24 favorites]
She is unable to bite her tongue when she disagrees with our parenting decisions, and often is visibly upset (or tries to intervene) when we ask our kids to do chores or eat their vegetables. [...] In subtle and not-so-subtle ways she makes it clear that she'd really rather I not be around (she's divorced and often expresses a negative view of marriage; she refers refers to her + my wife and kids as "our kids" or "just us"; she says bad things about where we live and talks about how much better my wife's hometown is).
Not only do I not think you can improve this relationship, I would not leave this person alone with your children. Everything you're describing is not just disrespectful to you, but outright abusive, and I would seriously wonder what's going on when you're not in earshot if she literally cannot even avoid contradicting your parenting decisions to your face, in front of your kids.
No amount of free babysitting is worth the damage she is likely doing to your kids, and your marriage. Hire a babysitter, or take your kids with you.
posted by tocts at 10:36 AM on March 25, 2017 [32 favorites]
Not only do I not think you can improve this relationship, I would not leave this person alone with your children. Everything you're describing is not just disrespectful to you, but outright abusive, and I would seriously wonder what's going on when you're not in earshot if she literally cannot even avoid contradicting your parenting decisions to your face, in front of your kids.
No amount of free babysitting is worth the damage she is likely doing to your kids, and your marriage. Hire a babysitter, or take your kids with you.
posted by tocts at 10:36 AM on March 25, 2017 [32 favorites]
Don't engage. She can't amp up drama if you don't engage. If you want to be treated like an adult act like one. Don't engage in her petty dramas, that doesn't mean get angry back it means why bother because that's not how adults act.
Of course she talks about her daughter being a child a lot. If she see's her only 10 days a year, this is how she remembers her, she doesn't get much of a chance to see you as adults, let her see you being adults.
When she tries to get involved in your decisions with child raising a friendly, non confrontational. This is how we do this, thanks or "This is how daughter & I have decided to do this, thanks." and then continue one with what you were doing. If she keeps commenting. "Thanks for your input but this is how daughter and I have decided to do this, or x is important to daughter and I." etc. Also Grandparents entire role in life is to undermine the authority of their Grandchildrens parents, they just want to see their precious Grandkids spoiled etc.
Reframe how you look at things like itineraries etc. She's not treating you like a child, it's most likely here way of showing caring. Telling all her friends is finding out information (that's how people did it in the days before the internet) so she can share them with you. The correct response is a thanks, read the list (who knows she might actually know stuff you don't) then do whatever the hell you want.
Tl;DR Act like the adults you want her to treat you as.
posted by wwax at 10:40 AM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
Of course she talks about her daughter being a child a lot. If she see's her only 10 days a year, this is how she remembers her, she doesn't get much of a chance to see you as adults, let her see you being adults.
When she tries to get involved in your decisions with child raising a friendly, non confrontational. This is how we do this, thanks or "This is how daughter & I have decided to do this, thanks." and then continue one with what you were doing. If she keeps commenting. "Thanks for your input but this is how daughter and I have decided to do this, or x is important to daughter and I." etc. Also Grandparents entire role in life is to undermine the authority of their Grandchildrens parents, they just want to see their precious Grandkids spoiled etc.
Reframe how you look at things like itineraries etc. She's not treating you like a child, it's most likely here way of showing caring. Telling all her friends is finding out information (that's how people did it in the days before the internet) so she can share them with you. The correct response is a thanks, read the list (who knows she might actually know stuff you don't) then do whatever the hell you want.
Tl;DR Act like the adults you want her to treat you as.
posted by wwax at 10:40 AM on March 25, 2017 [7 favorites]
FWIW, my wife is supportive, but feels stuck in the middle. She tends to be more accepting of her mom, but has also backed me frequently in these spats. She also thinks I could lighten up (which is true). The trouble is her interventions have not really changed her mom's behavior, and at this point, she's tired of refereeing. It's emotionally exhausting for everyone.
This is more of the issue. Your MIL is who she is and that's just not going to change much. But your relationship with your wife is something the two of you can work on and this is a good point for that maybe. When I hear people saying they feel "trapped in the middle" a lot of times it's either because
- someone is asking them to, specifically asking them to referee a thing, or
- they are not setting up good boundaries and/or refusing to choose a side when there is a side they should choose (to be clear, not all of this stuff is side choosing but some of it absolutely is)
It also sounds like maybe you've got some buttons that get pushed about being treated like a kid, because to my read this is just her being ridiculous except that it really hurts your feelings. And hey, you feel what you feel and that's AOK but it might be worth thinking on that a little. Why does this threaten you?
So I usually move to what I call the Loving Broken Record on some of this stuff. She can try to amp up the drama, you just ... refuse the engage. Leave the room and do stuff like say "Well in this house we do this" sorts of things. She argues, you repeat. Etc. No conflict, no snapping.
And, ultimately, if she's not willing to do things like not put expensive knives in the dishwasher after you AND your wife have asked (and make sure your wife is backing you on this and not "Oh yeah hubby can be uptight about the knives") then you have a choice to make about having her in your house. And you and your wife need to get to a place where you agree on what stuff is going to be enforced and what stuff is going to be let slide. Something like
- we'll gently both push back on her telling anyone in the family how to eat.
- I will not snap at her because that is Against the Rules but I may leave the room if I am getting frustrated
- you will push back on her acting like the core family unit is you, her and the kids (to your wife). We will use "we" talk and present a united front as a family.
- We will both agree to laugh at her itineraries for us (and if your wife is having issues here she needs to work on boundaries) and have a short debrief session at the end of the day when she is with us and save eye-rolling and negative talk for them 9and keep it short)
In-laws are a fact of life for most people in partnered relationships and it sounds like you have maybe checked out of this one because you've decided you're "logical" and she's not. That's a trap. There are many different ways to be human. Find ways to untangle that so that you can find something either useful or interesting about your MiL and make it your JOB to work things out. Logically, that's where this should go, make it happen.
posted by jessamyn at 10:44 AM on March 25, 2017 [30 favorites]
This is more of the issue. Your MIL is who she is and that's just not going to change much. But your relationship with your wife is something the two of you can work on and this is a good point for that maybe. When I hear people saying they feel "trapped in the middle" a lot of times it's either because
- someone is asking them to, specifically asking them to referee a thing, or
- they are not setting up good boundaries and/or refusing to choose a side when there is a side they should choose (to be clear, not all of this stuff is side choosing but some of it absolutely is)
It also sounds like maybe you've got some buttons that get pushed about being treated like a kid, because to my read this is just her being ridiculous except that it really hurts your feelings. And hey, you feel what you feel and that's AOK but it might be worth thinking on that a little. Why does this threaten you?
So I usually move to what I call the Loving Broken Record on some of this stuff. She can try to amp up the drama, you just ... refuse the engage. Leave the room and do stuff like say "Well in this house we do this" sorts of things. She argues, you repeat. Etc. No conflict, no snapping.
And, ultimately, if she's not willing to do things like not put expensive knives in the dishwasher after you AND your wife have asked (and make sure your wife is backing you on this and not "Oh yeah hubby can be uptight about the knives") then you have a choice to make about having her in your house. And you and your wife need to get to a place where you agree on what stuff is going to be enforced and what stuff is going to be let slide. Something like
- we'll gently both push back on her telling anyone in the family how to eat.
- I will not snap at her because that is Against the Rules but I may leave the room if I am getting frustrated
- you will push back on her acting like the core family unit is you, her and the kids (to your wife). We will use "we" talk and present a united front as a family.
- We will both agree to laugh at her itineraries for us (and if your wife is having issues here she needs to work on boundaries) and have a short debrief session at the end of the day when she is with us and save eye-rolling and negative talk for them 9and keep it short)
In-laws are a fact of life for most people in partnered relationships and it sounds like you have maybe checked out of this one because you've decided you're "logical" and she's not. That's a trap. There are many different ways to be human. Find ways to untangle that so that you can find something either useful or interesting about your MiL and make it your JOB to work things out. Logically, that's where this should go, make it happen.
posted by jessamyn at 10:44 AM on March 25, 2017 [30 favorites]
Some of the stuff you've mentioned seems like you could avoid by taking preventative measures. You could stop following her on social media and update your privacy settings on Facebook to prevent her from seeing every post.
Other stuff you've mentioned is more serious: disagreeing with your parenting decisions in front of your kids, insinuating that you shouldn't be around, making disparaging remarks about where you live, and I would say even opening your mail. It's worth a serious conversation with your wife about setting hard boundaries around these things, possibly in the presence of a counselor.
I feel like it's on you to tolerate behavior that's idiosyncratic, but it's on your wife to address over-the-line behavior like this with direct relatives and to present a united front with you. Does your wife view this as something her mother is doing to her and not just to you? I'm sure she's tired of refereeing and feels stuck in the middle, but her mother is doing things to deliberately stick her in the middle, and to a large extent, she needs to referee.
Also, I would seriously rethink leaving your kids with your mother in-law when you go on vacation if at all possible. Who knows what she's saying to your kids behind your back?
she says she just can't help it b/c she's been an elementary school teacher for too long.
If there's anyone you can picture her not pulling this stuff with, like her boss, her favorite president, or the star of her favorite TV show, then this is BS, because it shows she has a category for people who don't get the elementary school teacher treatment, and she has chosen not to put you in that category.
For the other stuff, try to picture her as the inept one if you can. Can you say, "Thank you for your input" if she makes suggestions about renovating your bathroom or vacation itineraries, and just dismiss the comments?
posted by alphanerd at 10:46 AM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
Other stuff you've mentioned is more serious: disagreeing with your parenting decisions in front of your kids, insinuating that you shouldn't be around, making disparaging remarks about where you live, and I would say even opening your mail. It's worth a serious conversation with your wife about setting hard boundaries around these things, possibly in the presence of a counselor.
I feel like it's on you to tolerate behavior that's idiosyncratic, but it's on your wife to address over-the-line behavior like this with direct relatives and to present a united front with you. Does your wife view this as something her mother is doing to her and not just to you? I'm sure she's tired of refereeing and feels stuck in the middle, but her mother is doing things to deliberately stick her in the middle, and to a large extent, she needs to referee.
Also, I would seriously rethink leaving your kids with your mother in-law when you go on vacation if at all possible. Who knows what she's saying to your kids behind your back?
she says she just can't help it b/c she's been an elementary school teacher for too long.
If there's anyone you can picture her not pulling this stuff with, like her boss, her favorite president, or the star of her favorite TV show, then this is BS, because it shows she has a category for people who don't get the elementary school teacher treatment, and she has chosen not to put you in that category.
For the other stuff, try to picture her as the inept one if you can. Can you say, "Thank you for your input" if she makes suggestions about renovating your bathroom or vacation itineraries, and just dismiss the comments?
posted by alphanerd at 10:46 AM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
From your description it seems like you fear losing your power when you're around your mother-in-law. Maybe you're feeling out of control and powerless? Maybe a little jealous? Mother-in-law loves her daughter and most likely misses you all and that's why she comments on your social media. She's family. She's not worried about being too eager or uncool. What you call overbearing, she calls loving and missing her family. As your grow older you might want all the family you can get because you learn over time that family is precious, and there is no need to have a contentious relationship with good people who make an effort to be a part of your life.
I think the best thing to do is ignore her and do what you want. Smile and nod and do what you want -- with your food, your kids, and your dishwasher. Take action without complaining.
You don't need your mother-in-law's permission or approval to be an adult. What she does has no bearing on what you already are. She does things her way, interjects, and gives unsolicited advice -- how are you going to react to this kind of behavior? Ignore when you can, drop the ego, and take action without complaining.
You're allowing your ego to get involved. Take a look at what you're saying:
These are small things, but it all adds up to me feeling like she's not treating me like an adult human being.
She's not treating ME like an adult. No need to take it personally. Take the ME out of it, because when you say, LOOK WHAT SHE'S DOING TO ME, you're making yourself a victim. You think you're special. Oh, poor ME. She'd most likely behave the same with any man your wife married. YOU have nothing to do it.
You're creating a story around "I am being treated like a child" and this is causing you unnecessary suffering. Take nothing personally from the Four Agreements is a helpful recommendation. The heaviness of your mind-created story goes away when you stop taking what she does personally. Your ego is saying my mother-in-law is doing these things to ME, as if she's singling you out to offend you.
It can be very satisfying to complain about other people who have "failed" you. It can make you feel more right. Your mother-in-law was not put on this earth to make your life miserable, you're allowing and creating it. Your mother-in-law is family. Perhaps your mind is creating a false identity for your mother-in-law and ignoring the human being that she is, who has a lot in common with you. Examine how this unnecessary conflict and disharmony affects your wife, kids, and yourself.
posted by loveandhappiness at 10:54 AM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think the best thing to do is ignore her and do what you want. Smile and nod and do what you want -- with your food, your kids, and your dishwasher. Take action without complaining.
You don't need your mother-in-law's permission or approval to be an adult. What she does has no bearing on what you already are. She does things her way, interjects, and gives unsolicited advice -- how are you going to react to this kind of behavior? Ignore when you can, drop the ego, and take action without complaining.
You're allowing your ego to get involved. Take a look at what you're saying:
These are small things, but it all adds up to me feeling like she's not treating me like an adult human being.
She's not treating ME like an adult. No need to take it personally. Take the ME out of it, because when you say, LOOK WHAT SHE'S DOING TO ME, you're making yourself a victim. You think you're special. Oh, poor ME. She'd most likely behave the same with any man your wife married. YOU have nothing to do it.
You're creating a story around "I am being treated like a child" and this is causing you unnecessary suffering. Take nothing personally from the Four Agreements is a helpful recommendation. The heaviness of your mind-created story goes away when you stop taking what she does personally. Your ego is saying my mother-in-law is doing these things to ME, as if she's singling you out to offend you.
It can be very satisfying to complain about other people who have "failed" you. It can make you feel more right. Your mother-in-law was not put on this earth to make your life miserable, you're allowing and creating it. Your mother-in-law is family. Perhaps your mind is creating a false identity for your mother-in-law and ignoring the human being that she is, who has a lot in common with you. Examine how this unnecessary conflict and disharmony affects your wife, kids, and yourself.
posted by loveandhappiness at 10:54 AM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
This situation exists in my family. I have a few thoughts.
One is, no, you can't globally improve the relationship. I don't think she will change. You can only change your responses, and make sure your wife is not in the middle.
Lots of good ideas here for some of that but I would add...with my challenging elders, since I'm a grownup, I visualize them like we are at their 100th birthday party. Every crazy thing anyone says at their 100th birthday party is just taken as proof they are still breathing but most people don't take it seriously (or so I have made up in my mind.) My response is a fond-but-passive-aggressive "Oh, _Mom_."
Other visualizations and mantras include treating her like a stranger, changing serenity now in your head, remembering that she gave birth to your amazing wife.
Boundaries - yes, your house rules are not up for negotiation. She will never get this. You will have to say it at least 5,000 more times. Maybe have a bingo card set for the things she comments on and whoever gets Bingo first gets a prize. (Not with your kids but you and your wife.)
Something I haven't seen addressed...if I've read this correctly, you're an introvert who has a chatty overbearing in-law come stay with you for 10 days? If so, there's no wonder your wife feels like she's refereeing and you feel like you are blowing up at the end of it. Make sure you have an "introvert care plan" in place for these visits. Tips and tricks include: Pretend you have taken up birdwatching and go out alone for a few hours, pretend you have a work emergency and lock yourself in the bedroom with a laptop for a few hours, get your MIL a spa or overnight spa package mid-visit and send her away, send her out with your kids to the park or mall or any errand possible as much as possible, and go for long drives to "help out a friend."
I think if you focus on meeting your own introverted needs, you will find it much easier to keep your cool for the whole visit.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
One is, no, you can't globally improve the relationship. I don't think she will change. You can only change your responses, and make sure your wife is not in the middle.
Lots of good ideas here for some of that but I would add...with my challenging elders, since I'm a grownup, I visualize them like we are at their 100th birthday party. Every crazy thing anyone says at their 100th birthday party is just taken as proof they are still breathing but most people don't take it seriously (or so I have made up in my mind.) My response is a fond-but-passive-aggressive "Oh, _Mom_."
Other visualizations and mantras include treating her like a stranger, changing serenity now in your head, remembering that she gave birth to your amazing wife.
Boundaries - yes, your house rules are not up for negotiation. She will never get this. You will have to say it at least 5,000 more times. Maybe have a bingo card set for the things she comments on and whoever gets Bingo first gets a prize. (Not with your kids but you and your wife.)
Something I haven't seen addressed...if I've read this correctly, you're an introvert who has a chatty overbearing in-law come stay with you for 10 days? If so, there's no wonder your wife feels like she's refereeing and you feel like you are blowing up at the end of it. Make sure you have an "introvert care plan" in place for these visits. Tips and tricks include: Pretend you have taken up birdwatching and go out alone for a few hours, pretend you have a work emergency and lock yourself in the bedroom with a laptop for a few hours, get your MIL a spa or overnight spa package mid-visit and send her away, send her out with your kids to the park or mall or any errand possible as much as possible, and go for long drives to "help out a friend."
I think if you focus on meeting your own introverted needs, you will find it much easier to keep your cool for the whole visit.
posted by warriorqueen at 11:10 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
I think not being around her WOULD improve the relationship.
My MIL doesn't even visit us but on Skype she has yelled at us about how we're reading books to our kids.
I make myself scarce when Skype calls happen, but now that my eldest can understand what is going on, I'm starting to stay within earshot to nip anything inappropriate in the bud, and make clear to my husband what is acceptable around OUR kids.
It is NOT a given that grandparents will be shitty at following the rules of parents. My parents ask before everything, treat us like adults, give us space. They did it before we were close to them and only saw them a few days a year, and after, when we moved close and STILL only visit like 10 days a year. It is not a given that parents will treat their adult children as actual children.
When she makes unsolicited recommendations, smile, nod and ignore her. When she disrespects your home (knives in the dishwasher) or your parenting (intervening when you parent your kids) you STOP her because those things can actually cause various kinds of damage. Stay polite because you, at least, are an adult, but you can and should still reinforce your boundaries, even politely.
I would not be comfortable with someone who undermined my parenting being left in charge with my children, but you seem to be OK with it? If not, she can spend time with your kids when you are around. You've put up with this better and for longer than I would have.
posted by pearshaped at 11:12 AM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
My MIL doesn't even visit us but on Skype she has yelled at us about how we're reading books to our kids.
I make myself scarce when Skype calls happen, but now that my eldest can understand what is going on, I'm starting to stay within earshot to nip anything inappropriate in the bud, and make clear to my husband what is acceptable around OUR kids.
It is NOT a given that grandparents will be shitty at following the rules of parents. My parents ask before everything, treat us like adults, give us space. They did it before we were close to them and only saw them a few days a year, and after, when we moved close and STILL only visit like 10 days a year. It is not a given that parents will treat their adult children as actual children.
When she makes unsolicited recommendations, smile, nod and ignore her. When she disrespects your home (knives in the dishwasher) or your parenting (intervening when you parent your kids) you STOP her because those things can actually cause various kinds of damage. Stay polite because you, at least, are an adult, but you can and should still reinforce your boundaries, even politely.
I would not be comfortable with someone who undermined my parenting being left in charge with my children, but you seem to be OK with it? If not, she can spend time with your kids when you are around. You've put up with this better and for longer than I would have.
posted by pearshaped at 11:12 AM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
There is no reason for anybody to be appalled that your children might hear someone disagreeing with their parents in public. even, yes, about parenting. That isn't abusive and the only subversive lesson the kids will take from it is that not everybody outside the nuclear family agrees with their parents, but their parents are still in charge. It also won't hurt them to live by weird and stupid grandma rules when you guys are on vacation.
For the times when she's annoying you: this woman has no power or authority over you and you can treat her like the child she regresses to: distanced, amused tolerance; annoyance suppressed so as not to hurt her sensitive feelings; indulgence just to a point. because: when a kid bounds up to you and starts hollering that they're king of the world today, you can say "Uh huh, tell me more about that!" while sneakily continuing to read the financial pages. you don't have to explain to them that we live in a representative democracy and get mad and yell when they insist they're still the king. that is not logical.
also, get her a hotel room when she visits and have the post office hold your mail when you're away and she's watching your kids.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:14 AM on March 25, 2017 [19 favorites]
For the times when she's annoying you: this woman has no power or authority over you and you can treat her like the child she regresses to: distanced, amused tolerance; annoyance suppressed so as not to hurt her sensitive feelings; indulgence just to a point. because: when a kid bounds up to you and starts hollering that they're king of the world today, you can say "Uh huh, tell me more about that!" while sneakily continuing to read the financial pages. you don't have to explain to them that we live in a representative democracy and get mad and yell when they insist they're still the king. that is not logical.
also, get her a hotel room when she visits and have the post office hold your mail when you're away and she's watching your kids.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:14 AM on March 25, 2017 [19 favorites]
You're really going to have to choose your battles here. I would pick parenting "advice" as The Line She Cannot Cross. I realize that recycling is just an example of her stubbornness but it's really not important and you need to learn to ignore that stuff because she will not change.
Give her a project. I knew my mom was going to be intolerable during my wedding so I gave her control of things that I didn't really care about (e.g. flower arrangements). Even if you're never going to remodel the bathroom, let her research it, and then just put it off indefinitely. Surely sometimes she does have good advice on vacations, etc., so make sure you're not ignoring it out of resentment.
Your wife is having a hard time stepping up because she grew up with this and she's used to having her feelings run over by the proverbial truck. I think you're underestimating how hard it is to get out of this pattern with parents; it's probably a lot easier for her emotionally to give in, or she'll feel guilty. If it's causing a lot of strife between you too, it's something she should work on in therapy. I felt a ton better when I could honestly express myself to my parents and take the space I needed.
regularly posting photos on Facebook from her childhood. She is the first (and usually only) commenter on nearly all of my Instagram and Facebook posts.
There are super easy fixes to this. For the first, unfollow her so you don't see any of her posts. If she says "didn't you see X on Facebook?" just say you don't use it that much. For the second, go to her profile when you're on a computer, click Friends > Add to another list > Restricted. Then she can only see your public posts. Don't make anything public. Delete your instagram profile and start a private one.
posted by AFABulous at 11:27 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Give her a project. I knew my mom was going to be intolerable during my wedding so I gave her control of things that I didn't really care about (e.g. flower arrangements). Even if you're never going to remodel the bathroom, let her research it, and then just put it off indefinitely. Surely sometimes she does have good advice on vacations, etc., so make sure you're not ignoring it out of resentment.
Your wife is having a hard time stepping up because she grew up with this and she's used to having her feelings run over by the proverbial truck. I think you're underestimating how hard it is to get out of this pattern with parents; it's probably a lot easier for her emotionally to give in, or she'll feel guilty. If it's causing a lot of strife between you too, it's something she should work on in therapy. I felt a ton better when I could honestly express myself to my parents and take the space I needed.
regularly posting photos on Facebook from her childhood. She is the first (and usually only) commenter on nearly all of my Instagram and Facebook posts.
There are super easy fixes to this. For the first, unfollow her so you don't see any of her posts. If she says "didn't you see X on Facebook?" just say you don't use it that much. For the second, go to her profile when you're on a computer, click Friends > Add to another list > Restricted. Then she can only see your public posts. Don't make anything public. Delete your instagram profile and start a private one.
posted by AFABulous at 11:27 AM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
My family is full of women like this. The way I deal with it is I DO snap at them. If they cross a line, I am overtly hostile and I make eye contact and my tone of voice changes until they back down. People like this always back down immediately if you assume the role of uncompromising authority. It's pretty small and subtle, we don't get into yelling matches, in fact there is no discussion broked on my end about things relating to my life at all. Ever. At this point everyone knows the rules and things go more smoothly but it took some pretty nasty rebukes to get here. It's not really my nature, I'd prefer to just never deal with them again like you, but its ok to set boundaries and enforce them with anyone you want to. And it's good for your kids to see you do it.
tl;dr: don't be afraid to make the mean old ladies cry if they step on your toes as a grown ass man in his own domain.
posted by fshgrl at 11:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
tl;dr: don't be afraid to make the mean old ladies cry if they step on your toes as a grown ass man in his own domain.
posted by fshgrl at 11:29 AM on March 25, 2017 [16 favorites]
My mother and father were together for 45 years before my mother died last year.
My maternal grandmother was an evil abusive woman. She spent the entirety of my parents relationship attacking my father, undermining their relationship and playing the victim. She did some downright evil terrible things which I won't get into, but in short she was an abusive piece of shit.
It really affected me. I didn't know about a lot of it until my mother was dying. She told me about a lot of bad things that happened in her life. My grandmother kept a dark cloud above my parents relationship and on many occasions she put them on the verge of breaking up. As a child, I was aware of this and it was very upsetting. Your children notice all of it, they're affected.
I'm not sure your wife realizes how seriously this affects you and your children. As much as most people feel obligated to keep the peace with their parents, it shouldn't be at the expense of their family. She chose you as her family, you've had children. You and your children are her family now.
I wish my mother had stood up to my grandmother as an adult. My grandmother continued to wreck my mother and fathers lives until my mother died and I resented my mother a little for allowing it.
You and your wife need a serious conversation. And you need to get a babysitter when you go on vacation. Do not leave your children alone with this woman.
posted by shesbenevolent at 11:58 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
My maternal grandmother was an evil abusive woman. She spent the entirety of my parents relationship attacking my father, undermining their relationship and playing the victim. She did some downright evil terrible things which I won't get into, but in short she was an abusive piece of shit.
It really affected me. I didn't know about a lot of it until my mother was dying. She told me about a lot of bad things that happened in her life. My grandmother kept a dark cloud above my parents relationship and on many occasions she put them on the verge of breaking up. As a child, I was aware of this and it was very upsetting. Your children notice all of it, they're affected.
I'm not sure your wife realizes how seriously this affects you and your children. As much as most people feel obligated to keep the peace with their parents, it shouldn't be at the expense of their family. She chose you as her family, you've had children. You and your children are her family now.
I wish my mother had stood up to my grandmother as an adult. My grandmother continued to wreck my mother and fathers lives until my mother died and I resented my mother a little for allowing it.
You and your wife need a serious conversation. And you need to get a babysitter when you go on vacation. Do not leave your children alone with this woman.
posted by shesbenevolent at 11:58 AM on March 25, 2017 [11 favorites]
Speaking as someone who has had family like this, I want to add that sometimes this sort of person takes direct boundary setting very poorly. They react childishly, lay on the guilt or feign confusion about the behavior that prompted the boundary. Sometimes a "talking to" with this personality just adds to the drama rather than reducing it so keep that in mind.
posted by crunchy potato at 12:27 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by crunchy potato at 12:27 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, prepare for massive gaslighting when you set boundaries. If you choose the confrontation route, write out a list of specific things she's done (with your wife) so you two don't get convinced that they didn't happen, or that they weren't as bad as you thought.
posted by AFABulous at 12:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 12:47 PM on March 25, 2017 [5 favorites]
I agree with others here to see the damaging and possibly abusive impacts of your MIL's behaviors for what they are, and respond accordingly. Based on your description, I do think some of her behaviors stem having had less choices in her life about how to do things, especially when it came to how to get her own needs met. The fact that she keeps revisiting your wife's childhood times reflects to me that there's some unprocessed grief and loss there -- probably from when she felt more in control of her life and better bonded family-wise. Watching you and your wife as being from a younger generation (with way more developmentally timely choices, thanks to science, technology and change) is probably triggering for her in a way society continues to generally not acknowledge as the older generations now process their aging.
Some advice I have is to try giving MIL a positive-focused role to play with your kids when she does have time with them. It could be that she does see what you and your wife are doing well, and may feel too intimidated and insecure to believe she has as much to offer her grandchildren. Giving her a positive role will assure her that you and your wife support her having a positive part to play in her grandchildren's lives. Remind yourself as often as necessary that she probably didn't get the level of parenting she's watching her grandchildren receive now. Try to reframe with compassion how crappy that must feel for her from time to time, when she grew up in an era where she wasn't allowed to have as many choices.
I suggest this only if you and your wife intend to still try and find a positive intervention for MIL's behaviors -- to basically coach MIL on how to focus on positive things in your children. To run with the example upthread, if MIL complains that the kids read too much, say something like, "Yes, it's different now, and wonderful that kids now have time to work on those skills while they're young. That's why it's so great when you tell them 'good job' for reading from time to time." I would keep the goal that specific: tell them "good job" for reading, at least 1X a visit. If she goes negative, redirect at much as possible back to the positive (imagine it like a mental tennis match where you find the positive side in how things are going and serve it back to her). If she says something like, "I never got that when I was growing up..." just agree and validate: no, she probably did not, even though when she was that age, she needed it just as much as her grandkids do now from the adults around them.
I also agree with others that the damage might be entrenched enough that its course can't be redirected. IME with some damaged elders from my own flock, expecting them to be happy for their children's successes was simply too much to ask of them. They harbored too much bitter resentment from all the unprocessed grief in their own unresolved experiences to not let it slip out through various microaggressions, sabatoging, and guilt-tripping last-ditch-attempts-at-parenting behaviors. If your MIL is too far gone down this path to be responsive to positive-focused interventions, you have my permission to see it for what it is as you decide how to move forward. Good luck!
posted by human ecologist at 1:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
Some advice I have is to try giving MIL a positive-focused role to play with your kids when she does have time with them. It could be that she does see what you and your wife are doing well, and may feel too intimidated and insecure to believe she has as much to offer her grandchildren. Giving her a positive role will assure her that you and your wife support her having a positive part to play in her grandchildren's lives. Remind yourself as often as necessary that she probably didn't get the level of parenting she's watching her grandchildren receive now. Try to reframe with compassion how crappy that must feel for her from time to time, when she grew up in an era where she wasn't allowed to have as many choices.
I suggest this only if you and your wife intend to still try and find a positive intervention for MIL's behaviors -- to basically coach MIL on how to focus on positive things in your children. To run with the example upthread, if MIL complains that the kids read too much, say something like, "Yes, it's different now, and wonderful that kids now have time to work on those skills while they're young. That's why it's so great when you tell them 'good job' for reading from time to time." I would keep the goal that specific: tell them "good job" for reading, at least 1X a visit. If she goes negative, redirect at much as possible back to the positive (imagine it like a mental tennis match where you find the positive side in how things are going and serve it back to her). If she says something like, "I never got that when I was growing up..." just agree and validate: no, she probably did not, even though when she was that age, she needed it just as much as her grandkids do now from the adults around them.
I also agree with others that the damage might be entrenched enough that its course can't be redirected. IME with some damaged elders from my own flock, expecting them to be happy for their children's successes was simply too much to ask of them. They harbored too much bitter resentment from all the unprocessed grief in their own unresolved experiences to not let it slip out through various microaggressions, sabatoging, and guilt-tripping last-ditch-attempts-at-parenting behaviors. If your MIL is too far gone down this path to be responsive to positive-focused interventions, you have my permission to see it for what it is as you decide how to move forward. Good luck!
posted by human ecologist at 1:03 PM on March 25, 2017 [9 favorites]
1) I'm assuming that this isn't an abusive relationship, just a patience-testing relationship. I've been in both with parents or parent-figures, and IMHO the patience-testing relationships can be trickier to respond to because there isn't an obvious villain. It's so much more complicated when your boundaries are being pushed by otherwise good people. So be gentle with yourself, but yeah, be willing to put in the work.
2) Just because she isn't your mother, she is still a mother figure to you. She obviously feels that way about you (posting first on all your pictures, kind of sweet from the outside), and you respond to her overbearing maternal-ness in the same kind of frustrated way that a child would (okay, a teenager or young adult, but you get my point). It's actually speaks very well of you that you have slipped into this dynamic even though it is frustrating -- you have incorporated a true sense of for better or worse family into your identity. So appreciate this about yourself.
My advice is to think about what you would say to a 16 or 17 year old niece or nephew who is upset about being babied by their parents, when you actually agree with their parents in some ways but agree with the kids too in others, and then say all those things to yourself when you feel your MIL triggering your inner teenager.
Sometimes your MIL is just being a mom, or an elementary school teacher. As permanent identities, they are a type and it can be annoying to live with, but the world does not suffer from an overabundance of them and you only have to deal with it for 10 days of the year. You may never 'miss it when it's gone' but your inner teenager should practice being gracious because, really, windmills.
Sometimes your MIL is suffocatingly maternal - trying to solve problems you don't have, what with breakfast, and trip advice and home renovation plans. Yes, YES, very annoying, but again still in the world of 'she's an imperfect person who is trying to show her love' and your inner teenager should try to see this more in the give-and-take of family relationships. Have more of a sense of humor if you can, or take more of the advice in stride and then dump it. Learning to laugh, let it go and love anyway is the high road.
Sometimes your MIL really does go too far - opening mail, dishwashing knives (grrr, I agree), openly contradicting you in front of your kids. These are the things I would focus on fixing WITH HER, not within yourself. She probably isn't doing these things out of malice but out of habit or unthinking. So discuss them with her the same way you discuss things with your kids when they do something wrong but they really didn't mean to. Assuming they are too old for a time-out chair but still need reminders to try harder to remember rules or to think before they speak, whatever you would say to them that implies you are disappointed but will help them do better if you can -- that's the voice you are going for. And then try to rig your household systems to make it easier for MIL not to goof - sticky notes all over the place about what to do and what not to do. Lists of things to open or handle or not to open or handle. Preemptively give her projects so the boundaries are known, and be explicit about what help is welcome and what is not. Give her room to help a little bit though.
On preview, I see others are reading this relationship as more toxic and dysfunctional than I am and if they are right my advice is probably too mild. But maybe that's the key question for you to think about since only you know. How much of this would be a problem if she were anyone's MIL as opposed to being YOUR MIL? The first sort should be tackled head on WITH her but the second can be adjusted within yourself. That's what has worked for me. I hope this helps you.
posted by dness2 at 1:36 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
2) Just because she isn't your mother, she is still a mother figure to you. She obviously feels that way about you (posting first on all your pictures, kind of sweet from the outside), and you respond to her overbearing maternal-ness in the same kind of frustrated way that a child would (okay, a teenager or young adult, but you get my point). It's actually speaks very well of you that you have slipped into this dynamic even though it is frustrating -- you have incorporated a true sense of for better or worse family into your identity. So appreciate this about yourself.
My advice is to think about what you would say to a 16 or 17 year old niece or nephew who is upset about being babied by their parents, when you actually agree with their parents in some ways but agree with the kids too in others, and then say all those things to yourself when you feel your MIL triggering your inner teenager.
Sometimes your MIL is just being a mom, or an elementary school teacher. As permanent identities, they are a type and it can be annoying to live with, but the world does not suffer from an overabundance of them and you only have to deal with it for 10 days of the year. You may never 'miss it when it's gone' but your inner teenager should practice being gracious because, really, windmills.
Sometimes your MIL is suffocatingly maternal - trying to solve problems you don't have, what with breakfast, and trip advice and home renovation plans. Yes, YES, very annoying, but again still in the world of 'she's an imperfect person who is trying to show her love' and your inner teenager should try to see this more in the give-and-take of family relationships. Have more of a sense of humor if you can, or take more of the advice in stride and then dump it. Learning to laugh, let it go and love anyway is the high road.
Sometimes your MIL really does go too far - opening mail, dishwashing knives (grrr, I agree), openly contradicting you in front of your kids. These are the things I would focus on fixing WITH HER, not within yourself. She probably isn't doing these things out of malice but out of habit or unthinking. So discuss them with her the same way you discuss things with your kids when they do something wrong but they really didn't mean to. Assuming they are too old for a time-out chair but still need reminders to try harder to remember rules or to think before they speak, whatever you would say to them that implies you are disappointed but will help them do better if you can -- that's the voice you are going for. And then try to rig your household systems to make it easier for MIL not to goof - sticky notes all over the place about what to do and what not to do. Lists of things to open or handle or not to open or handle. Preemptively give her projects so the boundaries are known, and be explicit about what help is welcome and what is not. Give her room to help a little bit though.
On preview, I see others are reading this relationship as more toxic and dysfunctional than I am and if they are right my advice is probably too mild. But maybe that's the key question for you to think about since only you know. How much of this would be a problem if she were anyone's MIL as opposed to being YOUR MIL? The first sort should be tackled head on WITH her but the second can be adjusted within yourself. That's what has worked for me. I hope this helps you.
posted by dness2 at 1:36 PM on March 25, 2017 [10 favorites]
I think you're making too big of a deal out of this. You only need to see her ten days a year and, while she does indeed sound annoying, nothing you've described sounds anywhere close to abusive or a reason to cut off contact completely.
I'm not being dismissive. My own mother has many of these traits and there have been times when I felt as if I would be unable to stand another second in her presence. My relationship with her improved greatly when I stopped taking her words personally and started attributing them (correctly, I think) to the nervous ramblings of someone with an untreated anxiety disorder. Your MIL seems like she might be suffering from something similar.
Disengage. Take a walk or a nap when she gets to be too much. Plan some "special" activities for just your wife and her to do. When she criticizes your parenting, say "okay" and change the subject. Keep her busy, wear her out: there will be less energy to complain if she's tired. Then just grin and bear it. You're an adult , you can do this.
Oh, and your kids will be fine. If all it took to emotionally scar children was ten days in the presence of someone not completely self-actualized, the human race would have died out long ago.
posted by scantee at 1:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
I'm not being dismissive. My own mother has many of these traits and there have been times when I felt as if I would be unable to stand another second in her presence. My relationship with her improved greatly when I stopped taking her words personally and started attributing them (correctly, I think) to the nervous ramblings of someone with an untreated anxiety disorder. Your MIL seems like she might be suffering from something similar.
Disengage. Take a walk or a nap when she gets to be too much. Plan some "special" activities for just your wife and her to do. When she criticizes your parenting, say "okay" and change the subject. Keep her busy, wear her out: there will be less energy to complain if she's tired. Then just grin and bear it. You're an adult , you can do this.
Oh, and your kids will be fine. If all it took to emotionally scar children was ten days in the presence of someone not completely self-actualized, the human race would have died out long ago.
posted by scantee at 1:57 PM on March 25, 2017 [8 favorites]
I truly believe that this woman shouldn't be in your lives to the best of your ability. I don't understand why your wife is refereeing. You are her husband and you are her family as well as her kids. If your side of the story is the gist of it all then I feel your wife shouldn't be allowing what she is with her mother. If she wants to have time with her mom she can do that without you or the kids. And If grandma wants time with her grandchildren then she will simply have to respect their parents conditions. Period.
I have my own issues with being too nice and I think this is how your wife is handling this. Women especially tend to struggle with this because we're raised being taught that we should be "nice" even if it fucks us over. This attitude becomes ingrained in the subconscious so it can be very hard to undo. But it's a long process that is well worth your wife starting imo. Perhaps if your wife understands how much damage her mom is potentially doing to her children, Missy nice will go away and the Mama Bear in her will finally show her claws.
posted by bearam at 2:15 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
I have my own issues with being too nice and I think this is how your wife is handling this. Women especially tend to struggle with this because we're raised being taught that we should be "nice" even if it fucks us over. This attitude becomes ingrained in the subconscious so it can be very hard to undo. But it's a long process that is well worth your wife starting imo. Perhaps if your wife understands how much damage her mom is potentially doing to her children, Missy nice will go away and the Mama Bear in her will finally show her claws.
posted by bearam at 2:15 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
BTDT twice. The general stuff you mention is quite normal, and can easily be solved by your MIL staying somewhere nearby when she visits, but not at your house. When my MIL visited (from 12000 miles away) she stayed at a holiday home just ten minutes away, which made everything very civilised.
However, I'd baulk at the "our kids", "just us" stuff. You need to talk with your wife about this and she will need to work out whether she's on your side or her mother's. Things like this come up every now and then, and for my money you need to be absolutely sure that both you and your wife have each other's backs first without any doubt against any external influence. There can be no exceptions.
posted by tillsbury at 2:19 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
However, I'd baulk at the "our kids", "just us" stuff. You need to talk with your wife about this and she will need to work out whether she's on your side or her mother's. Things like this come up every now and then, and for my money you need to be absolutely sure that both you and your wife have each other's backs first without any doubt against any external influence. There can be no exceptions.
posted by tillsbury at 2:19 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
My experience is that annoyingness gets worse the more time you spend with someone at one clip. I think one of the issues here is time. Ten days is far, far too long, especially if it's all at once. Limit her (or your) trips to about three days at a time. Don't ask her to come to your house or watch your kids while you're gone.
posted by cnc at 3:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by cnc at 3:14 PM on March 25, 2017 [1 favorite]
This idea that the wife is being 'too nice' because she doesn't hate her own mother as much as the OP does and must be insufficiently liberated is really not grounded in anything in the question.
It speaks really well of the OP that he hasn't drawn some kind of dramatic with-me-or-against-me line and forced his wife to step over it as a loyalty test, and I don't know why the enthusiasm about recommending she be bullied into it if she doesn't volunteer. She doesn't hate her awful mother. This is certainly a very strange facet of human nature, that some people don't hate their mothers, and I don't pretend to understand it, but there it is. She has stepped in and taken her husband's side on several occasions. She lives on his side of the country, not hers, so it is safe to assume she knows who her "real family" is and doesn't need telling. She is not required to scrub her incredibly annoying mother the rest of the way out of her life because being annoying and bossy and hating your son-in-law and the institution of marriage is necessarily abusive and dangerous to grandchildren.
The wife should either be the one to break it to her mom that her mom has to stay in a hotel next visit, or send her husband off to his own hotel and spa week for a mini solo vacation while the MIL's there. and she might be able to negotiate a week-long visit instead of a 10-day one as the new standard. These would all be lovely things to do for her husband and reasonable things to ask of her.
She chose you as her family, you've had children. You and your children are her family now.
That's certainly a particular value system that some people subscribe to. For others, your children are only temporarily your family until they grow up and marry a man who can't stand you.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:06 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]
It speaks really well of the OP that he hasn't drawn some kind of dramatic with-me-or-against-me line and forced his wife to step over it as a loyalty test, and I don't know why the enthusiasm about recommending she be bullied into it if she doesn't volunteer. She doesn't hate her awful mother. This is certainly a very strange facet of human nature, that some people don't hate their mothers, and I don't pretend to understand it, but there it is. She has stepped in and taken her husband's side on several occasions. She lives on his side of the country, not hers, so it is safe to assume she knows who her "real family" is and doesn't need telling. She is not required to scrub her incredibly annoying mother the rest of the way out of her life because being annoying and bossy and hating your son-in-law and the institution of marriage is necessarily abusive and dangerous to grandchildren.
The wife should either be the one to break it to her mom that her mom has to stay in a hotel next visit, or send her husband off to his own hotel and spa week for a mini solo vacation while the MIL's there. and she might be able to negotiate a week-long visit instead of a 10-day one as the new standard. These would all be lovely things to do for her husband and reasonable things to ask of her.
She chose you as her family, you've had children. You and your children are her family now.
That's certainly a particular value system that some people subscribe to. For others, your children are only temporarily your family until they grow up and marry a man who can't stand you.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:06 PM on March 25, 2017 [15 favorites]
Yeah, I'd caution you strongly against badgering your wife on any of this. Your MIL's pushiness and overbearing really are things that are small enough to ignore if you make up your mind to do so. They're rude, but they're not abusive, and some of the advice I see above about you need to push your wife to react more strongly to her mom - when in fact her "meh" is probably the healthier reaction - is likely to have extremely poor results. We want less drama, not more.
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:17 PM on March 25, 2017
posted by fingersandtoes at 4:17 PM on March 25, 2017
A couple things you could do when she visit are to have the mail held at the post office and speak to your postal delivery person if it's generally the same person, to remind them the mail is being held and why. Put the good knives away because omg not in the dishwasher they'll get ruined. If she asks, I'd tell her flat out we've asked you not to do this so now we don't need to worry about it. Problem solved, here are the shitty knives you can use this week and you don't have to worry about the mail, one less thing to remember Mom. As others have noted for stuff with the kids where she's undermining you, stay firm but not angry and repeat as needed this is how we do it in our home/family whatever your and your wife agree to say. Block her out of most but not all of your social media esp. anything cute about the kids, do let her see few things so she can feel she's still involved and if she asks why your online presence has decreased go with the old oh I just don't get on there much anymore.
Like a dog in training, set her up for success. Find areas you admire (or at least don't hate) about her and capitalize on them. Encourage her to have a special relationship w/the kids, and hold your nose and let them do a few things not normally allowed, while making sure everyone knows hey we only eat bowls of pure sugar in our pj's in front of the tv when gramma is here isn't this a fun treat etc. Do what you can before she arrives to prevent the really crappy stuff from happening and be a 100% united front with wife on those things, but not every single thing. She's a grandmother after all and probably a lonely person in general. She sounds like a handful and if you can get the really outrageous behavior under control the rest will be easier to accept.
One of my brothers and his 1st wife tried hard to set boundaries w/our overbearing mother. My god asking her to call before coming to see HER OWN GRANDCHILDREN was criminal to Mom. Fucking unheard of that's what it was. Nobody tells her what to do or that she can't smoke in the house or talk smack to my lovely ex-SIL in front of the kids. Kids won't grow properly if all you feed them is whatever you're feeding them because when HER kids were little she grew the crops and butchered the meat and all that baloney, none of it true but it grated on SIL anyway. They ended up divorcing and I'm sure that meddling was a big part of it. Having a MIL like that living 10 miles away must have been hell for her. Mom also opened my mail until I moved out at 20 years old because it's her house and dammit she can open any letter that arrives. Some people just have horrible boundaries and you need to decide what's worth pushing back on, there is plenty that you have valid reasons to draw a line and say NO we will not be doing that. But again try to leave some wiggle room to let her win a few small battles, it'll give her some small satisfaction.
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 4:34 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Like a dog in training, set her up for success. Find areas you admire (or at least don't hate) about her and capitalize on them. Encourage her to have a special relationship w/the kids, and hold your nose and let them do a few things not normally allowed, while making sure everyone knows hey we only eat bowls of pure sugar in our pj's in front of the tv when gramma is here isn't this a fun treat etc. Do what you can before she arrives to prevent the really crappy stuff from happening and be a 100% united front with wife on those things, but not every single thing. She's a grandmother after all and probably a lonely person in general. She sounds like a handful and if you can get the really outrageous behavior under control the rest will be easier to accept.
One of my brothers and his 1st wife tried hard to set boundaries w/our overbearing mother. My god asking her to call before coming to see HER OWN GRANDCHILDREN was criminal to Mom. Fucking unheard of that's what it was. Nobody tells her what to do or that she can't smoke in the house or talk smack to my lovely ex-SIL in front of the kids. Kids won't grow properly if all you feed them is whatever you're feeding them because when HER kids were little she grew the crops and butchered the meat and all that baloney, none of it true but it grated on SIL anyway. They ended up divorcing and I'm sure that meddling was a big part of it. Having a MIL like that living 10 miles away must have been hell for her. Mom also opened my mail until I moved out at 20 years old because it's her house and dammit she can open any letter that arrives. Some people just have horrible boundaries and you need to decide what's worth pushing back on, there is plenty that you have valid reasons to draw a line and say NO we will not be doing that. But again try to leave some wiggle room to let her win a few small battles, it'll give her some small satisfaction.
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 4:34 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm not sure what's up with these replies. To me, your MIL doesn't sound like a schoolteacher who's too old to change; to me, she sounds like a narcissist. And personally, I would investigate and utilise tools specifically for adult children of narcissists or relationships with narcissists. YMMV.
posted by DarlingBri at 4:41 PM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 4:41 PM on March 25, 2017 [14 favorites]
You sound like my dh, introverted, logical and thoughtful. Your MIL is exactly like my mother. She would call my dh "Little boy", so she'd say "Little boy, do you want to eat something?" At my wedding, she put a napkin on my lap and started to cut my meat. I was 27 years old. She would talk about my childhood all day long in conversations. Looking back, I determined that she probably had borderline personality disorder. Similar to Narcissistic as the other poster mentioned.
See if your MIL has either bpd or npd and if so, learn how to deal with that.
I wonder if she would like to have a small dog to dote on and baby. Perhaps she needs to join senior day trip outings. She needs to get busy doing things other than living for your wife and kids.
Btw, my dh quietly put up with her but later on, he'd just have to stay away because he was afraid he'd explode at her antics.
posted by Coffeetyme at 5:04 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
See if your MIL has either bpd or npd and if so, learn how to deal with that.
I wonder if she would like to have a small dog to dote on and baby. Perhaps she needs to join senior day trip outings. She needs to get busy doing things other than living for your wife and kids.
Btw, my dh quietly put up with her but later on, he'd just have to stay away because he was afraid he'd explode at her antics.
posted by Coffeetyme at 5:04 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh my god. By the time I finished reading your post I was just so glad you live so far away. Seriously. You are so fortunate. I don't have a mother-in-law like this, but my mother is, so I will give you all my strategies for maintaining a relationship with her.
Firstly, I moved 2000 miles away. Done.
Then, the 10 days a year you spend with her needs to be done on as neutral territory as possible. Ideally, she should not be visiting your house, or on a very limited schedule. When she comes to visit she stays in a hotel or airbnb, you go out and do activities, out for meals etc. ON YOUR SCHEDULE. Not for 10 days. Make if 4, tops. She gets maybe one visit to your house for a couple of hours during that time. Seriously. You make the rules.
Oh you are thinking, this sounds expensive. It is. It is worth it. DO NOT HESITATE to throw money at this.
If your wife feels she needs to spend more time her mom, off she goes sans you and kids. That is how it works in my house. I shield my family from my mother and do the heavy lifting when it comes to spending time with her. I protect them all the way.
Social media? Dude. Just disconnect her from those. You have all the power there.
And she is still going to manage to irritate you with all her advice-giving. But it's okay, just nod and say 'uh huh', 'yes, that is such a good idea', knowing that from her point of view it is, and you are not going to do any of it, and she is going back to her hotel in less than an hour and the end is in sight.
posted by nanook at 5:19 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
Firstly, I moved 2000 miles away. Done.
Then, the 10 days a year you spend with her needs to be done on as neutral territory as possible. Ideally, she should not be visiting your house, or on a very limited schedule. When she comes to visit she stays in a hotel or airbnb, you go out and do activities, out for meals etc. ON YOUR SCHEDULE. Not for 10 days. Make if 4, tops. She gets maybe one visit to your house for a couple of hours during that time. Seriously. You make the rules.
Oh you are thinking, this sounds expensive. It is. It is worth it. DO NOT HESITATE to throw money at this.
If your wife feels she needs to spend more time her mom, off she goes sans you and kids. That is how it works in my house. I shield my family from my mother and do the heavy lifting when it comes to spending time with her. I protect them all the way.
Social media? Dude. Just disconnect her from those. You have all the power there.
And she is still going to manage to irritate you with all her advice-giving. But it's okay, just nod and say 'uh huh', 'yes, that is such a good idea', knowing that from her point of view it is, and you are not going to do any of it, and she is going back to her hotel in less than an hour and the end is in sight.
posted by nanook at 5:19 PM on March 25, 2017 [6 favorites]
If your wife feels she needs to spend more time her mom, off she goes sans you and kids. That is how it works in my house. I shield my family from my mother and do the heavy lifting when it comes to spending time with her. I protect them all the way.
This is great advice. When my in-laws are here, I actually make sure that they get one-on-one time with their child. That's important – it's a family bond and it's different when the spouse is there. People think that everyone has to be together at all moments in order to get the most out of the visit but generally that's when everyone is compromising and tip-toeing and not relaxing. The kids (if you trust her) can also get some dedicated time with her. Even if it's an hour or two out at the movies or something. Drop them off, pick them up, then take her to her hotel for a nap. That's how we try to roll here.
posted by amanda at 5:29 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
This is great advice. When my in-laws are here, I actually make sure that they get one-on-one time with their child. That's important – it's a family bond and it's different when the spouse is there. People think that everyone has to be together at all moments in order to get the most out of the visit but generally that's when everyone is compromising and tip-toeing and not relaxing. The kids (if you trust her) can also get some dedicated time with her. Even if it's an hour or two out at the movies or something. Drop them off, pick them up, then take her to her hotel for a nap. That's how we try to roll here.
posted by amanda at 5:29 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Oh man.
It's interesting reading this thread, seeing how many people seem to suffer from this gnarly Overbearing Mother-In-Law affliction. I had the same thing - the bit about the good knives in the dishwasher? For me it was the expensive non-stick pans, and how you had to baby them so as to not scratch the non-stick surface. I'd tell her about it - and half an hour later she was "helping out" by washing the dishes - and haphazardly piling knives and other utensils into the pans and ruining them. I could go on, but I'll spare you.
I could write a lot of stuff, but in the end it all comes down to this: you can't make the relationship better. Allow me to point out that, whenever you try to talk to her about compromises or your relationship with her etc, I'm sure you are quite sincere about trying to make things better. But she is simply saying / doing whatever it is that she thinks will make you shut up. She's not paying attention to you. As soon as you leave the room, she forgets everything you said.
After several years of attempting to 'fix' things, I ended up doing much the same as fshgrl describes:
Pragmatically, I'd like to note that 10 days is too long of a visit. The most practically effective thing I ever did to manage this "relationship" was to encourage my wife take the kids to visit the in-laws. They all had fun - and it wasn't a bad thing for me to have a few days of alone time myself.
God knows how things would stand now, except that about 15 years ago my in-laws were on their way to visit us and they suffered a head-on collision on a narrow desert highway. People toss around the expression "mixed feelings" - but I submit that you don't really know the true meaning of mixed feelings until someone you can't stand dies in an accident.
posted by doctor tough love at 7:16 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
It's interesting reading this thread, seeing how many people seem to suffer from this gnarly Overbearing Mother-In-Law affliction. I had the same thing - the bit about the good knives in the dishwasher? For me it was the expensive non-stick pans, and how you had to baby them so as to not scratch the non-stick surface. I'd tell her about it - and half an hour later she was "helping out" by washing the dishes - and haphazardly piling knives and other utensils into the pans and ruining them. I could go on, but I'll spare you.
I could write a lot of stuff, but in the end it all comes down to this: you can't make the relationship better. Allow me to point out that, whenever you try to talk to her about compromises or your relationship with her etc, I'm sure you are quite sincere about trying to make things better. But she is simply saying / doing whatever it is that she thinks will make you shut up. She's not paying attention to you. As soon as you leave the room, she forgets everything you said.
After several years of attempting to 'fix' things, I ended up doing much the same as fshgrl describes:
The way I deal with it is I DO snap at them. If they cross a line, I am overtly hostile and I make eye contact and my tone of voice changes until they back down.I'm not normally that kind of person - but it got a lot easier when I got a handle on what was actually going on, and began to take offense at the abuse she was slinging at me. (I'm not normally the kind of person who cries "abuse!", either - but this is it).
Pragmatically, I'd like to note that 10 days is too long of a visit. The most practically effective thing I ever did to manage this "relationship" was to encourage my wife take the kids to visit the in-laws. They all had fun - and it wasn't a bad thing for me to have a few days of alone time myself.
God knows how things would stand now, except that about 15 years ago my in-laws were on their way to visit us and they suffered a head-on collision on a narrow desert highway. People toss around the expression "mixed feelings" - but I submit that you don't really know the true meaning of mixed feelings until someone you can't stand dies in an accident.
posted by doctor tough love at 7:16 PM on March 25, 2017 [12 favorites]
I agree with the answers above, that your mother-in-law trying to undermine your parenting and your marriage is uncool. She sounds like a very difficult person to be around. However, some of her behaviours also seem like maladaptive reactions to the struggle for continued relevance that a lot of people experience as they age. Her obsession with your wife's childhood may hark back to a time when she had greater power and influence in the lives of others. Clearly, it's not appropriate for her to make decisions for you and your wife - you are adults with your own priorities. However, I wonder if there's a way to work with this tendency in her rather than against it, perhaps by engaging more with areas where she is competent, and drawing her out about the ways she exercises agency for herself, in her own life? Can she be encouraged to take on some volunteer work that she can draw some meaning and a sense of mastery from?
posted by Cheese Monster at 7:44 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Cheese Monster at 7:44 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
I would add to my comment that I don't recommend debating boundaries or having a talking to or discussion with this woman ever. In the heat of the moment just snap at her and be rude enough and look angry enough that its clear she's crossed a line. She will back down. Don't get sucked into talking about it later either just say "sorry, not sorry, you made me mad by being a jerk" and walk away.
posted by fshgrl at 7:53 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 7:53 PM on March 25, 2017 [4 favorites]
Having said that I think Dness is probably giving the best overall advice. Some of this stuff is annoying but not really a big deal. The travel thing is kind of funny in a crazy way, and making a little anti-parent brigade with the grandkids to break some minor rules or do special stuff is a proud tradition. Opening my mail would definitely piss me off as would correcting people in front of the kids. So there are a few things you will not tolerate at all and some stuff you probably need to for peace in the house and for your wife. Your MIL is presumably not an idiot, she can figure this out if the feedback is immediate and clear.
posted by fshgrl at 8:00 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by fshgrl at 8:00 PM on March 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
I've had not dissimilar versions of your MIL problems with mine. For instance, when my wife was recovering from major emergency surgery, she tried to insert herself as an intermediary to the doctors and fabricated things for them to have said. I had good results by being not letting any bad behavior* slide, after which she backed off and we could be friendlier.
*The elementary school teacher excuse sounds like a 100% dodge. If she can have any adult relationships, she can turn it off.
posted by The Gaffer at 9:21 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
*The elementary school teacher excuse sounds like a 100% dodge. If she can have any adult relationships, she can turn it off.
posted by The Gaffer at 9:21 PM on March 25, 2017 [3 favorites]
Honestly, many of these things just sound like typical MIL things. You only have to see her ten days a year. Try to be good humoured about it, for your wife and your children's sake.
posted by ryanbryan at 12:55 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ryanbryan at 12:55 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
For reference, I lean way more toward these are annoying MIL things and nowhere near diagnosing her with mental illness and calling her so abusive you shouldn't let your kids near her.
I'm going to give you some advice I wish someone had given me 20+ years ago when my MIL drove me insane doing stuff like putting the baby to bed on her stomach, rubbing whiskey on the teething toddler's gums, giving the baby peanut butter, reading a book and ignoring the kids at the playground, etc. My MIL used to enrage me in her doing things really counter to my way, to the point where I really dreaded her annual visit and couldn't engage with her in any conversation (and now that I think about it, when we would go visit her she would also give me itineraries of all the stuff she thought we had to do).
Then she got fast-moving cancer and was dead within months. My kids grew up without a grandmother and the last thing she said to me was that I had been like a daughter to her and she was so proud of me, something that surprised the heck out of me.
After her death, I found out that she used to sing the praises of me and the kids all the time. She was a singer in a select master chorus. She was a published author. She had developed the kids' art program at a national art museum (ever see those kiosks with activities for kids at museums? that was her idea). She was the first friend to organize food and care for others when they were ill. She was a highly ranked tennis player.
But I didn't know any of this about her, I didn't care to know how actually freaking amazing this woman was, because I was so completely hung up on her washing the cast iron skillet and doing things wrong and generally getting under my skin. In hindsight, I was such an asshole to this woman who was just trying to connect.
Try to find out what makes this woman special and good and worth having around. When she's staying with you maybe she can teach you some family recipes or tell you family stories.
I think if you try to find the good iin her, you may discover that she's not this terrible she-beast.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:01 AM on March 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
I'm going to give you some advice I wish someone had given me 20+ years ago when my MIL drove me insane doing stuff like putting the baby to bed on her stomach, rubbing whiskey on the teething toddler's gums, giving the baby peanut butter, reading a book and ignoring the kids at the playground, etc. My MIL used to enrage me in her doing things really counter to my way, to the point where I really dreaded her annual visit and couldn't engage with her in any conversation (and now that I think about it, when we would go visit her she would also give me itineraries of all the stuff she thought we had to do).
Then she got fast-moving cancer and was dead within months. My kids grew up without a grandmother and the last thing she said to me was that I had been like a daughter to her and she was so proud of me, something that surprised the heck out of me.
After her death, I found out that she used to sing the praises of me and the kids all the time. She was a singer in a select master chorus. She was a published author. She had developed the kids' art program at a national art museum (ever see those kiosks with activities for kids at museums? that was her idea). She was the first friend to organize food and care for others when they were ill. She was a highly ranked tennis player.
But I didn't know any of this about her, I didn't care to know how actually freaking amazing this woman was, because I was so completely hung up on her washing the cast iron skillet and doing things wrong and generally getting under my skin. In hindsight, I was such an asshole to this woman who was just trying to connect.
Try to find out what makes this woman special and good and worth having around. When she's staying with you maybe she can teach you some family recipes or tell you family stories.
I think if you try to find the good iin her, you may discover that she's not this terrible she-beast.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 3:01 AM on March 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
I think a combination of you and your wife drawing better boundaries (MIL does not stay at your house, she stays at a hotel and for 4 days not 10. You block her on social media etc. etc.) and your wife spending more time with MIL than everyone else will really help this situation. You need to sit down with your wife sometime before the subject of MILs next visit comes up. You should calmly begin a discussion about the changes the family can make to improve the situation for everyone. Get you and your wife on the same page long before MIL starts planning her next trip out to visit. Its not unreasonable to wish to have your privacy and personal space in your home. Not everyone is the type that wants to host house guests. I think you will be able to appreciate MIL a bit more when you feel comfortable enforcing your boundaries.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 7:13 AM on March 26, 2017
posted by WalkerWestridge at 7:13 AM on March 26, 2017
I think you've got great advice here. I do think she probably has some mental health issues that you can't help. I also have these in laws and there's not a lot you can do. For me, the thing you can't fix and isn't enough to make a big deal out of (but drives me personally insane) is spending half a day cleaning and then them picking up the one speck of dirt on the floor and handing it o me SO I CAN THROW IT AWAY even though they're right in front of a trash can.
Personally I would let the I'm an adult stuff go. I also feel this way and I'm a little younger than you and I really feel for you. It just doesn't help anything. Even if you aren't saying the words, she probably has an idea of how you feel and there's nothing less adult than thinking "I'm an adult". I agree you should just take these things up like they aren't up for discussion and limit her ability to cause problems. But I also think you should be more positive with her in neutral moments. It's hard to be negative about someone who's positive with you. If she's badmouthing you to your wife and kids it will make her look like a total jerk. Spin what you can as a positive. Remind her she raised the woman you married and you love that. Remind her that most of your parenting issues with her are superficial. That you appreciate that she comes out to help even if you don't. If you can say something nice about her in front of the grandkids, do that. I think it will make your wife's life easier. But then also couple it with shutting her down if she goes over the top. My husband and I do a lot of "we" talk. We do it this way. This is how it is in our house. They don't like what we do necessarily, but they accept that we're a unified front.
posted by Bistyfrass at 9:21 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Personally I would let the I'm an adult stuff go. I also feel this way and I'm a little younger than you and I really feel for you. It just doesn't help anything. Even if you aren't saying the words, she probably has an idea of how you feel and there's nothing less adult than thinking "I'm an adult". I agree you should just take these things up like they aren't up for discussion and limit her ability to cause problems. But I also think you should be more positive with her in neutral moments. It's hard to be negative about someone who's positive with you. If she's badmouthing you to your wife and kids it will make her look like a total jerk. Spin what you can as a positive. Remind her she raised the woman you married and you love that. Remind her that most of your parenting issues with her are superficial. That you appreciate that she comes out to help even if you don't. If you can say something nice about her in front of the grandkids, do that. I think it will make your wife's life easier. But then also couple it with shutting her down if she goes over the top. My husband and I do a lot of "we" talk. We do it this way. This is how it is in our house. They don't like what we do necessarily, but they accept that we're a unified front.
posted by Bistyfrass at 9:21 AM on March 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Paradoxically, it became a lot easier to deal with my own Overbearing Mother-in-Law when we moved to the same area as her so we can now limit contact to occasional family dinners and birthday parties instead of the 10-day marathon visits to our house when we lived on the opposite coast. I definitely feel your pain.
I think the best advice is in the choose your battles vein. Annoyances like my MIL leaving dirty dishes all over the house and dropping snipped off ends of her knitting all over the place are things I can grit my teeth and bear, in order to keep my powder dry for moments where she flat-out undermines my parenting in front of my children.
My husband did not have a happy childhood growing up with her, but she has proved to be a much more devoted grandmother than she ever was a mother, so we encourage what she does well and try to set good boundaries around the stuff that she does that we find disruptive.
posted by gateau at 11:17 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think the best advice is in the choose your battles vein. Annoyances like my MIL leaving dirty dishes all over the house and dropping snipped off ends of her knitting all over the place are things I can grit my teeth and bear, in order to keep my powder dry for moments where she flat-out undermines my parenting in front of my children.
My husband did not have a happy childhood growing up with her, but she has proved to be a much more devoted grandmother than she ever was a mother, so we encourage what she does well and try to set good boundaries around the stuff that she does that we find disruptive.
posted by gateau at 11:17 AM on March 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
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