Really big pot bust: help?

January 11, 2006 7:22 PM

Momma F___ing Mia Filter! Let's say that I, not really me of course, was caught by local authorities with around 500 very high quality marijuana plants. (Street value: $500,000) I'm in Washington state. I'm out on $2,500 bail charged with manufacture of an illicit substance. I was originally charged with intent to sell, that was dropped.

How much time should I count on spending in Federal Prison? Would it help if I could somehow retain a lawyer? I know this is bad, but is there any way out of this? Like, "Uh, it was for medical use only."?

Obviously, I'm trying to help a friend. He was the guy who booked our first musical gig back in '83. He's a good guy and I have no idea how he became involved in big time pot farming stuff. Any idea and/or help is greatly appreciated!

posted by snsranch to law & government (67 comments total)

GET A LAWYER.
posted by fandango_matt at 7:24 PM on January 11, 2006

Get. A. Lawyer. Now.
posted by JekPorkins at 7:25 PM on January 11, 2006

Also, DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS, THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, OR ANYONE ELSE WITHOUT YOUR LAWYER. I cannot stress this enough. Do not say or write anything about the purposes for which the plants were being used. You are in a lot of trouble--every word you speak and write will be used as evidence.
posted by fandango_matt at 7:30 PM on January 11, 2006

Exactly.

1. Lawyer up

2. Say nothing
posted by unSane at 7:32 PM on January 11, 2006

Also, tell your friends not to admit you're guilty on a website.
posted by smackfu at 7:42 PM on January 11, 2006

Talk to a lawyer and shut the hell up.
posted by cellphone at 7:44 PM on January 11, 2006

I hope for your sake that this question is fake, because if not, you're fucked. And please, talk to no one besides your lawyer. NO ONE
posted by puke & cry at 7:45 PM on January 11, 2006

One thing you might want to discuss WITH YOUR LAWYER AND NO ONE ELSE is if and how you can offer the DA or the grand jury a "bigger fish to fry." The deal you want is no prison time in exchange for your testimony against your suppliers--which may be difficult since you, as the grower, are the supplier and are therefore the biggest fish; in which case your options might be limited to testifying against your business partners. DISCUSS THIS ONLY WITH YOUR ATTORNEY.
posted by fandango_matt at 7:48 PM on January 11, 2006

GET A LAWYER. GET TWO.

AND AFTER THAT, STOP WRITING ABOUT POSSIBLE CRIMES ON THE INTERNETS.
posted by bshort at 7:51 PM on January 11, 2006

STOP WRITING ABOUT POSSIBLE CRIMES ON THE INTERNETS

This is not frivolous advice. They could subpoena your computer records, in case you were tracking sales.
posted by frogan at 7:54 PM on January 11, 2006

Get Matt or Jessamyn to delete this question, for starters.
posted by electric_counterpoint at 7:54 PM on January 11, 2006

Also, get all your personal info out of your account (couldn't hurt under the circumstances, I mean. Plausible deniability?)
posted by electric_counterpoint at 7:56 PM on January 11, 2006

If that shit's for medical use only, you gotta be treating all the glaucoma in red China, dude.

Sorry to see you go.
posted by Jimbob at 7:58 PM on January 11, 2006

The guy was *not* charged with intent to sell, and his bail is only 2500. That alone suggests the trouble is not as big as the alarmists upthread think. It should be easy to google average jailtimes for particular crimes in WA state.
posted by Rumple at 7:59 PM on January 11, 2006

These charts are from the U.S. Department of Justice's Federal Drug Offenders, 1999 with Trends 1984-99 [pdf], which is obviously out-of-date, but may be somewhat helpful. You can follow the link, and go to pages eight and nine if you can't read them here. It looks like manufacturing gets you around 7 years, but the average sentence for marijuana offenses is just under three years.





posted by ND¢ at 8:00 PM on January 11, 2006

If you think 500 plants will not be construed as ITS, then, dude, like, you're high.
posted by fandango_matt at 8:01 PM on January 11, 2006

Oh wait, just saw the ITS charge was dropped.
posted by fandango_matt at 8:05 PM on January 11, 2006

They could always adjust the charges later.
posted by bshort at 8:06 PM on January 11, 2006

Growing 500 plants isn't intent to sell? Wow, Washington State is alot more liberal than I thought. Still, follow everyone elses advice and get a lawyer immediately.

Also, whether the feds get involved really depends on the circumstances. Most crimes are prosecuted on the state level. (even if there is also a corresponding federal crime, the federal government doesn't have enough resources to do general criminal work, however they will pick certain cases to prosecute)
posted by reverendX at 8:09 PM on January 11, 2006

How much time should I count on spending in Federal Prison?

Uhh, if you're caught and charged by local authorities? None. Now, Washington State Prison is a whole different story.

By the way, even if you are telling the truth about your friend. GET A LAWYER. If you aren't, GET A LAWYER and STFU!
posted by eriko at 8:09 PM on January 11, 2006

The Kitsap Sun

January 5, 2006

Almost $500,000 in Marijuana Seized

Almost 500 marijuana plants were found during a search of a Port Gamble Road home Tuesday, according to the West Sound Narcotics Enforcement Team.

Detectives from the narcotics team, assisted by Kitsap sheriff’s deputies, had a search warrant for the home at the 22800 block of Port Gamble Road because the resident there had a warrant out for his arrest.

In all, 483 plants were found in the residence and in a detached garage. Almost 200 of the plants were located in a secret room underneath the garage, according to a report by the team.

The estimated value of the plants is $483,000.

The 36-year-old suspect was arrested and booked into Kitsap County jail for multiple charges, including manufacturing marijuana and possession of marijuana with intent to distribute. He’s being held on an unknown bail amount.
posted by seymour.skinner at 8:11 PM on January 11, 2006

They could always adjust the charges later.

Since he has not actually been tried, attorneys can charge him whenever they please (this is not yet double jeopardy territory).

They may have even specifically told you, "We're dropping the charges," for the sole purpose of keeping tabs on you and trying to roll up on anyone acquainted with you that might be part of the "operation." Or perhaps they will attempt to gather more info for a different, stiffer charge.

All together now -- get a lawyer.
posted by frogan at 8:14 PM on January 11, 2006

Also, if it is federal, then claiming that it is medicinal will not work. Washington's medicinal marijuana statute only allows patients to possess a 60-day supply of marijuana (bottom of page).
posted by ND¢ at 8:17 PM on January 11, 2006

They may have even specifically told you, "We're dropping the charges," for the sole purpose of keeping tabs on you and trying to roll up on anyone acquainted with you that might be part of the "operation."

That's a good point. Your "friend" needs to make really sure to keep his nose clean for the forseeable future. And, get a lawyer.
posted by bshort at 8:18 PM on January 11, 2006

Sorry, your friend is screwed.

The cops are going to massively overestimate the street value of the plants. Massively. Overestimate. 500 plants isn't going to pass as an operation solely intending to benefit compassion societies (those that supply to people with medical marijuana scrips). They (the societies) aren't big enough, yet, to need that much bud.

50? Plausible. (Weed doesn't keep for very long; 500 plants/growing cycle = LOTS TONS of people.) 500? That's a grow-op.

Non-extradition countries available?
posted by PurplePorpoise at 8:26 PM on January 11, 2006

Get a good lawyer.
posted by Count Ziggurat at 8:31 PM on January 11, 2006

MeTa
posted by fandango_matt at 8:54 PM on January 11, 2006

After you get your pal a lawyer, get yourself a lawyer and get set to answer some questions like "How long have you known about your friend's pot farming?" and "Please detail your business involvements with your friend since 1983."
posted by johnwilcox at 9:02 PM on January 11, 2006

yep - get a good lawyer with experience in federal drug cases - every penny spent is going to be worth it.... but this is going to EXPENSIVE. That said - if he's out on 2,500 bail... it doesn't sound like the feds are all that worked up about him.

It is really important that he find someone with Federal Drug Offense - preferably marijuana experience in the district court he is going to be a charged - a former federal prosecutor might not hurt.

He might also ask himself now if he is at the top of the food chain in the eyes of the law - or not.

Also - did the feds just stumble on him or has this been an ongoing investigation?

That said - if he's first time offender federal prison camps are not anything to be too worried about - pretty mellow places... in fact he might get to hang out with abramhoff, tom delay and the likes. hehehee..

Todos tomorrow for your friend:

- Good federal criminal drug lawyer in the district with lots of references (check them) and experience in federal court.

- If he's broke, get a public defender right away and ask them to contact the prosecuting attorney right away for any and all discovery they can get their hands on.

- Get the federal sentencing guidlines manual

- Tell him to relax... he's in a scary place, but by the time its all over some of the spooky sounding numbers will get reduced - if he goes away for a while he can do some reading, get in shape, meet some interesting fellas... and be more safe than he is driving down the highway.
posted by specialk420 at 9:10 PM on January 11, 2006

Were I dumb enough to run a grow op in Washington state and I got let out on bail, and I was looking at an average of three years in state pound-me-in-the-ass prison, I would have to think long and hard about running off to Chile or the Netherlands or somewhere similar using a black market Canadian passport after having snuck across the uncontrolled border and having taken the bus to Toronto, where I could fly non-stop to Europe without any US database being checked. A lifetime of exile beats three years of hell in my books. But this is not advice, because I am not counseling that anyone break further laws. Just sayin', is all.

So, yeah, your friend should get a lawyer. You might want to think about it, too.
posted by solid-one-love at 9:14 PM on January 11, 2006

Hey, thanks. This is gonna be a tough time for this friend of mine. I'm sure that some of this commentary will be helpful.
posted by snsranch at 9:17 PM on January 11, 2006

In all seriousness, the first thing you want to do is get this thread deleted. Beg or bribe Matt, do whatever it takes. (Of course, I guess they could subpoena Matt's logs).
posted by teece at 9:17 PM on January 11, 2006

A lifetime of exile beats three years of hell in my books.

ok - solid-one-love gets the dumb-ass post of the night award. he obviously has no idea what the f*ck he's talking about ... this sounds like it's a federal matter (meaning in worst case... federal minimum security prision or prison camp.... ergo club fed - no violent people allowed at all - safer than your backyard), and therein means the person in question won't in fact in be in a state prison - as previously noted - the $2500.00 bail makes is clear the feds are not to worked up about this case.

if said friend was to flee - he would be running for the rest of his life and most likely get caught and then be in some serious shit (like 5 years minimum).

the post above should be deleted. stupid stupid stupid.
posted by specialk420 at 9:20 PM on January 11, 2006

he obviously has no idea what the f*ck he's talking about

With much respect, I expressed a personal preference, and did not give advice. If you were to tell me that you liked beef better than pork, would it thus be fair to say that you don't know what you're talking about?
posted by solid-one-love at 9:25 PM on January 11, 2006

I second solid-one-love's rock solid advice: tell your friend to get the hell out of the USA. Actually I'd give this advice to just about anybody living in the States, but this person especially should look into leaving as soon as possible.

Weigh the options: a) stay, and face years of your life stolen by the Federal government, locked away with violent criminals intent on violating you personally. Or b) leave, and live a rich and fulfilling life with friends and hot women in Costa Rica or Cambodia.
posted by soiled cowboy at 9:31 PM on January 11, 2006

yo solid... perhaps you should save your personal musings for less serious situations - and please think about the potential consequences of your poorly thought out ramblings around people looking for advice in the future. big fella.
posted by specialk420 at 9:32 PM on January 11, 2006

tell your friend to get the hell out of the USA.

good lord - don't listen to these dumbsh*ts... there's is a reason good criminal defense lawyers live in nice houses/drive BMWs and these clownies don't.
posted by specialk420 at 9:38 PM on January 11, 2006

A good criminal defense lawyer is a nice idea, provided one has the resources to help pay for nice houses/BMWs. But for those without access to gold bricks, then when faced with several years in a federal prison for simply growing plants, retiring to a country with more enlightened views on personal liberties makes a great deal of sense.
posted by soiled cowboy at 9:44 PM on January 11, 2006

I see nothing particularly wrong with solid-one-love's idea, aside from the fact that it would be illegal, of course, but we're certainly beyond that now, aren't we.
posted by odinsdream at 9:53 PM on January 11, 2006

Anyone suggesting you flee the country is an idiot and is forgetting about the bail bondsman. Once you split, your bail bondsman will send someone looking for you, and when he finds you and brings you back, you'll be looking at additional charges and no chance of making a deal with the prosecutor--by the time you're returned, he or she will have offered that deal to your business partners: they'll be testifying against you. And since you fled, it makes you look even more guilty than you already are. You'll be the "big fish" for the prosecutors, and you'll get nailed for the whole operation.
posted by fandango_matt at 9:55 PM on January 11, 2006

The bail was only $2,500. The guy probably paid it himself. No bail bondsman needed.
posted by soiled cowboy at 10:01 PM on January 11, 2006

$2,500 total bail, or $2,500 to the bondsman?
posted by fishfucker at 10:01 PM on January 11, 2006

this sounds like it's a federal matter

Why? Nothing in the article seymour.skinner quoted mentions the feds, only local cops. Which means county jail or the state pen, not club fed, unless the feds choose to get involved. Not that skipping bail is really smart.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:02 PM on January 11, 2006

This is true, FM, if you're dealing with a bail bondsman, and the bounty hunter he calls is willing to risk kidnapping charges in a foreign land if he gets caught trying to smuggle you out of that foreign country. In a theoretical situation where bail is $2,500, it's unlikely that any bail bondsman would be involved and that the bail would be paid in full by cash. Even if it's actually $25K, the bondsman will go after assets first, and anyone with enough assets to skip the country should keep in mind that they should keep their bondsman happy before they leave.

But, again, I am not suggesting that anyone flee the country: this is merely an idea, as requested by the poster, not advice.

ROU: The authorities that grabbed him are multidisciplinary and funded by the Justice Department. It could be state or federal.
posted by solid-one-love at 10:09 PM on January 11, 2006

Duh, multijurisdictional.
posted by solid-one-love at 10:12 PM on January 11, 2006

In related news....
posted by acoutu at 10:30 PM on January 11, 2006

Sorry to derail slightly, but the article seymour.skinner quotes can't be about the same bust, can it? If the suspect is 36 now (as the article states), he'd have been 13 when he booked that gig for snsranch in 1983. It's possible, I guess, but seems unlikely.
To answer the question, though, all those "get a lawyer" people seem to have the right advice - maybe someone can give soem tips about HOW one goes about getting a good lawyer.
posted by bunglin jones at 10:45 PM on January 11, 2006

soild-one-love, if this person has enough assets to pay off the bondsman and flee the country, don't you think he would be better served by using that money to hire a good attorney? And if he gives up all his assets and cash to flee the country, how will he live in the country to which he's fleeing? You're offering advice which you've all but admitted will make this person's situation and life worse, not better. Please stop.
posted by fandango_matt at 10:52 PM on January 11, 2006

I've said very, very clearly a couple of times that I am not advising anyone, including the subject of the thread, to leave the country, FM. Whether he would be better served by using the money on an attorney, or how he would live in another country are null questions, since I am not referring to him. I have, again, stated an idea, not given advice.

Please do not misrepresent my words.
posted by solid-one-love at 10:59 PM on January 11, 2006

Ah, okay, so you're not offering advice, you're just offering ideas which you've admitted are illegal. You're not helping.
posted by fandango_matt at 11:04 PM on January 11, 2006

AskMe is about information. Information is not advocacy. And sometimes, an illegal idea is a good one, but whether or not it is useful information is really only up to the original poster.

I would certainly advise a starving man to steal bread. I would certainly advise a person accused of political crimes (like Chinese student protestors) to break the law and leave the country if they're at risk of the secret police busting down their door and dropping yhem in prison for ten years for advocating democracy. I would recommend those courses of action without reservation.

I would not say the same in this situation, but only because it's so grey. Me, I would sooner be flat broke on the streets of Cambodia, with all of my remaining worldly assets seized by the US government, than spend years in even the safest prison in the world.

Obviously, you would not. That your opinion differs from mine does not mean that I am "not helping."
posted by solid-one-love at 11:15 PM on January 11, 2006

I am offering advice, and I'm saying get out. Unless the person involved can afford to pay for an extraordinary lawyer then he's going down for a long, long time. Playing by the US's rules in the unjust war on drugs is a sucker's game. Don't gamble your freedom, get out now.
posted by soiled cowboy at 11:29 PM on January 11, 2006

It probably not a great idea to be discussing ways of circumventing U.S. justice in an open forum like this.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 11:48 PM on January 11, 2006

Get a lawyer. Take your medicine. Write a book. Appear on Larry King.
posted by quadog at 12:41 AM on January 12, 2006

IIRC, Brazil does not have an extradition treaty with the United States. Just saying.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:02 AM on January 12, 2006

I don't care if the guy hires F. Lee Bailey himself, there is no way he is getting out of this one.
posted by jasondigitized at 6:02 AM on January 12, 2006

Man, your name, location and biography are right under your username. Why didn't you at least use the anonymous feature!?

He's got his advice, someone now please delete this post.
posted by dgaicun at 6:09 AM on January 12, 2006

if nothing else - some of the inane comments in this thread are a reminder how freely some offer up really bad advice on askmefi.

i have two words for mr. soiled and mr. cowboy: "Federal Marshall".


i hope you guys are willing to take responsibility for your "flee" comments when the guy who was looking at a 18 to 36 month stint (small potatos in federal terms) ends up doing 4 times that in a much tougher place cause he thought your suggestions that life on the run in cambodia might be the way to go.

believe me - i'm no fan of the drug laws and the us government - but in this instance running does not sound like it is even close to the right call. does the guy in question really never want to talk to or see his family and friends ever again?

talk with a good attorney (you can hire a good one for an hour or two conference) - you can ask them if they think fleeing might be a good idea and what the consequences are.
posted by specialk420 at 6:25 AM on January 12, 2006

Totally irresponsible "advice".
posted by dgaicun at 6:34 AM on January 12, 2006

[askme is as helpful as you make it, please keep the "assholes" comments to a minimum and comment on the question or take it to the meta thread.]
posted by jessamyn at 6:41 AM on January 12, 2006

With much respect, I expressed a personal preference, and did not give advice. If you were to tell me that you liked beef better than pork, would it thus be fair to say that you don't know what you're talking about?
posted by solid-one-love at 9:25 PM PST on January 11 [!]


With equal respect, please reconsider what the purpose of askmetafilter is = answers not opinions.
posted by sic at 7:12 AM on January 12, 2006

I was originally charged with intent to sell, that was dropped.

That was dropped!? How could you not have intended to sell? "Uh no, I just needed to make a lot of rope, officer." LOL. It sounds like your in pretty good shape.

But yeah, if you're not being charged with intent to sell you're in pretty good shape. All that matters at this point is if you can contest the warrant. Get a really good lawyer.
posted by delmoi at 7:40 AM on January 12, 2006

Obviously, I'm trying to help a friend. He was the guy who booked our first musical gig back in '83. He's a good guy and I have no idea how he became involved in big time pot farming stuff. Any idea and/or help is greatly appreciated!

The fact that you're not "you" is very good, because "you" should absolutely not be posting on a website. However, it's perfectly all right for your friends too solicit legal advice, although they could get subpoena'd in court. If the evidence stands the government won't need your testimony anyway.

Has the DEA gotten involved yet? Or is this a state matter?
posted by delmoi at 7:44 AM on January 12, 2006

If you ever have to ask yourself the question, "Do I need a lawyer?" the answer is always "Yes."
posted by bshort at 7:51 AM on January 12, 2006

After you get your pal a lawyer, get yourself a lawyer and get set to answer some questions like "How long have you known about your friend's pot farming?" and "Please detail your business involvements with your friend since 1983."

Don't answer any questions unless you're officially deposed and placed under oath. If the cops do want to ask you anything, then you should get your own lawyer, if you want to protect your friend as much as possible.

My guess is that the intent to sell charges were dropped because the prosecutors were lazy and didn't want to deal with the headache of prosecuting that big of a case. An Elected, local DA could have all sorts of different ideas about weed.

The best way out for your friend is to flip everyone else involved. Sucky, but that's how it works. Again, he'll want to get a lawyer (and a good lawyer) to help negotiate a deal. Your friend won't be able to negotiate himself because he can't talk to them.
posted by delmoi at 8:02 AM on January 12, 2006

You might want to contact NORML as well, they usually have lists of lawyers who work for those accused of pot-related crimes, and can probably give you the names of some decent and sympathetic lawyers in your area.

If you didn't guess, Get. A. Lawyer.
posted by lowlife at 10:54 AM on January 12, 2006

By the way, the purpose of an experienced lawyer, in relatively cut-and-dried cases (as this one appears to be), is to get the best possible deal from the prosecutors. This includes working on mitigating circumstances (first felony, poorly prepared search warrant, whatever); it doesn't mean getting away without paying some consequences.

Insisting on going to trial, and hoping to be acquitted by some miracle, is (as any good attorney will explain) simply likely to lead to (a) the prosecutors adding or upgrading charges, if they can; (b) a sharp increase in the probability that the person charged with the crime will get an extremely long prison sentence; and (c) demonstrating that judges and/or juries do in fact have no problems understanding cut-and-dried cases.
posted by WestCoaster at 1:38 PM on January 12, 2006 [1 favorite has favorites]