How to navigate fears and insecurities in a new relationship?
December 30, 2016 12:19 PM Subscribe
I have zero dating experience. I met all my exes through school or friends, and I was with my ex-husband for 10 years before we split last year. I've now found myself with a boyfriend, who I met through Tinder, and more fears, insecurities, and general baggage than I know what to do with. Please help me sort through what is normal and what is not, and what is okay to ask him and what is not?
My ex-husband and I met when we were very young. We were happy together for many years, but we eventually grew apart and became less and less compatible. Almost a year ago, we split up amicably and now we're both dating other people. The split wasn't easy, and I was deeply depressed for months, but it was the right decision for both of us and I'm genuinely glad that he's found someone else who makes him happy.
I started dating my current boyfriend about 6 weeks ago. We liked each other a lot right away. He's smart, interesting, and funny, and we share a lot of common interests. What struck me about him was his willingness to bring up big relationship questions early on. By the end of our second date, we had discussed our relationship histories, what we were looking for in terms of a relationship, whether we wanted kids, and our employers' parental leave policies. After our third date, he checked in on how I was feeling about us, and told me straight up that he liked being with me, and he wanted this to work out. I panicked. I wasn't ready to be vulnerable. I wanted reasons to stop seeing him. I nitpicked him to my friends, who pretty much unanimously told me I was being dumb and he seemed like a great guy. A few more dates later, after almost a month of dating in total, he asked me where I saw this going. He said that he wasn't seeing anyone else. He was looking for a serious relationship and if I didn't want the same thing then we should probably part ways.
All quite fair, right? I cried. The poor guy didn't know what happened. I told him I was afraid of entering another relationship and getting hurt. To his credit, he didn't freak out or get upset. He said, "We won't know if we don't try." I decided then that I wanted to try. We deleted our online dating profiles. Over the next week we spent a lot of time together and I fell head over heels for him. And then in the last week or so, my neuroticism kicked in and I've been feeling absolutely terrible about everything. I worry that he's not as into me anymore. I worry that he liked his ex-girlfriends more and he's just settling for me now that he's older and in a rush to have a family. I worry that he doesn't actually want to marry me or have kids with me, and I'm just better than nothing for the moment. I worry that he's seen me looking like crap in the mornings and is less attracted to me. I worry that we'll date for a year before it all falls apart and I have to start over again at square one. I know I just need to give things a chance to develop, and these thoughts are all stupid and counterproductive. We haven't even been dating for 2 months. We didn't even make it official until 2 weeks ago.
Objectively, I don't think I should be so worried. He introduced me to his best friends and their spouses. He refers to me as his girlfriend. He talks about us in the future tense, as in, "We should go on a trip here next year," and "We should buy a house here," and "I can't wait to do X thing with you." But I feel like he's less sweet and affectionate already. I feel like he's less romantic with me and more joke-y. He teases me a lot and I feel oversensitive. It's hard to put my finger on it. I have the sense that he liked me more at first and I felt comfortable having the upper hand, but now it's the other way around.
Last night I had a small freakout and teared up while we were about to go to sleep. He had made some comments that scared me, about how kids and babies are so gross (but he also describes his big slobbery dog, who he adores, as gross), and how diamond engagement rings are a huge waste of money (I actually personally agree with this, but it scared me to hear him say it). Why was he still single in his mid-30's? Why hadn't he found someone to marry before he met me? Is he just doing this because he feels like he's supposed to settle down? What if he's just stringing me along? To his credit, he noticed right away that I was upset. But instead of sweetly reassuring me, he said, "Really? Are you being a big baby? Get your ass over here," and spooned himself around me. I know it's nothing, and that he was probably trying to be funny while offering comfort, but it made me even more sad. His irreverent sense of humor was one of the things that attracted me to him in the first place, but now I wish he'd turn it off sometimes. And it was late and he was so tired, and if I want to say something it's on me to bring it up, but I wish he would've asked me what was wrong.
And so on top of everything else, I worry that he thinks I'm an emotionally unstable basketcase. I feel so vulnerable, but so afraid of talking about it to him. When I'm feeling unsure or worried, I want to be able to say so, but is it too much to ask for that kind of reassurance? Is my insecurity something I just need to manage on my own? I don't understand the pacing of the dating thing. In every other relationship I've had, we met and fell for each other over some period of time. Whereas with online dating, it felt like we were on some kind of fast track. The whole courtship phase of this relationship seems to have gone by so fast. If that crazy-about-each-other phase ends so soon, is that a sign that the relationship will fizzle out similarly quickly? What can I say to him, if anything? What should I say to him? I'm completely out of my depth here. Please help.
My ex-husband and I met when we were very young. We were happy together for many years, but we eventually grew apart and became less and less compatible. Almost a year ago, we split up amicably and now we're both dating other people. The split wasn't easy, and I was deeply depressed for months, but it was the right decision for both of us and I'm genuinely glad that he's found someone else who makes him happy.
I started dating my current boyfriend about 6 weeks ago. We liked each other a lot right away. He's smart, interesting, and funny, and we share a lot of common interests. What struck me about him was his willingness to bring up big relationship questions early on. By the end of our second date, we had discussed our relationship histories, what we were looking for in terms of a relationship, whether we wanted kids, and our employers' parental leave policies. After our third date, he checked in on how I was feeling about us, and told me straight up that he liked being with me, and he wanted this to work out. I panicked. I wasn't ready to be vulnerable. I wanted reasons to stop seeing him. I nitpicked him to my friends, who pretty much unanimously told me I was being dumb and he seemed like a great guy. A few more dates later, after almost a month of dating in total, he asked me where I saw this going. He said that he wasn't seeing anyone else. He was looking for a serious relationship and if I didn't want the same thing then we should probably part ways.
All quite fair, right? I cried. The poor guy didn't know what happened. I told him I was afraid of entering another relationship and getting hurt. To his credit, he didn't freak out or get upset. He said, "We won't know if we don't try." I decided then that I wanted to try. We deleted our online dating profiles. Over the next week we spent a lot of time together and I fell head over heels for him. And then in the last week or so, my neuroticism kicked in and I've been feeling absolutely terrible about everything. I worry that he's not as into me anymore. I worry that he liked his ex-girlfriends more and he's just settling for me now that he's older and in a rush to have a family. I worry that he doesn't actually want to marry me or have kids with me, and I'm just better than nothing for the moment. I worry that he's seen me looking like crap in the mornings and is less attracted to me. I worry that we'll date for a year before it all falls apart and I have to start over again at square one. I know I just need to give things a chance to develop, and these thoughts are all stupid and counterproductive. We haven't even been dating for 2 months. We didn't even make it official until 2 weeks ago.
Objectively, I don't think I should be so worried. He introduced me to his best friends and their spouses. He refers to me as his girlfriend. He talks about us in the future tense, as in, "We should go on a trip here next year," and "We should buy a house here," and "I can't wait to do X thing with you." But I feel like he's less sweet and affectionate already. I feel like he's less romantic with me and more joke-y. He teases me a lot and I feel oversensitive. It's hard to put my finger on it. I have the sense that he liked me more at first and I felt comfortable having the upper hand, but now it's the other way around.
Last night I had a small freakout and teared up while we were about to go to sleep. He had made some comments that scared me, about how kids and babies are so gross (but he also describes his big slobbery dog, who he adores, as gross), and how diamond engagement rings are a huge waste of money (I actually personally agree with this, but it scared me to hear him say it). Why was he still single in his mid-30's? Why hadn't he found someone to marry before he met me? Is he just doing this because he feels like he's supposed to settle down? What if he's just stringing me along? To his credit, he noticed right away that I was upset. But instead of sweetly reassuring me, he said, "Really? Are you being a big baby? Get your ass over here," and spooned himself around me. I know it's nothing, and that he was probably trying to be funny while offering comfort, but it made me even more sad. His irreverent sense of humor was one of the things that attracted me to him in the first place, but now I wish he'd turn it off sometimes. And it was late and he was so tired, and if I want to say something it's on me to bring it up, but I wish he would've asked me what was wrong.
And so on top of everything else, I worry that he thinks I'm an emotionally unstable basketcase. I feel so vulnerable, but so afraid of talking about it to him. When I'm feeling unsure or worried, I want to be able to say so, but is it too much to ask for that kind of reassurance? Is my insecurity something I just need to manage on my own? I don't understand the pacing of the dating thing. In every other relationship I've had, we met and fell for each other over some period of time. Whereas with online dating, it felt like we were on some kind of fast track. The whole courtship phase of this relationship seems to have gone by so fast. If that crazy-about-each-other phase ends so soon, is that a sign that the relationship will fizzle out similarly quickly? What can I say to him, if anything? What should I say to him? I'm completely out of my depth here. Please help.
It honestly sounds like you two don't mesh well enough to be dating each other. He says things that he thinks are fun/sassy/cute, and they are pressing your buttons and making you feel insecure. I was getting vicariously annoyed reading about his pushy version of "courtship." This sounds like a dynamic that can happen 40 years into a relationship, not six weeks. I agree with chestnut-haired-sunfish; this doesn't seem to be working out, and that's totally ok. It is totally ok to extricate yourself.
posted by Drosera at 12:34 PM on December 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Drosera at 12:34 PM on December 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
Whether or not he's right for you isn't clear. What seems clear to me is that you're struggling with major insecurity and lack of confidence. This fellow has become a screen where you project all of your relationship fears and low self esteem. Maybe it's time to end this so that you can devote yourself to the work it'll take to feel strong and confident about yourself, which will help tremendously with dating in the future. It's entirely possible that you still have a lot of stuff to process from your last relationship and the divorce. It'll be much easier to be vulnerable with a boyfriend when you're coming from a place of emotional strength rather than a place of emotional fragility.
posted by quince at 12:49 PM on December 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by quince at 12:49 PM on December 30, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I have a similar story as yours: married high schoolsweetheart, happy for a long time, unhappy for a long time, separated, alone for a while, back into a serious relationship, also through Tinder, after some pretty limited dating experiences.
First of all, I think you're doing really well. It seems like you're listening to your feelings and taking them very seriously without letting them rule the roost, and that is healthy. The description that you give reflects a pretty clear understanding of what is going on. Good job!
I think that a mistake that those of us who got into successful relationships very young can make when we are dating after those relationships end is, having an expectation that successful relationships don't take any work. After all, we stumbled into successful relationships when we were young and didn't have tools to make them work, and then they just worked for a while until they didn't. People who have had more of a struggle often understand this better, and have built tools to help relationships along when they are struggling.
For these feelings, there are tools that you can apply:
"But I feel like he's less sweet and affectionate already. I feel like he's less romantic with me and more joke-y. He teases me a lot and I feel oversensitive."
"I know it's nothing, and that he was probably trying to be funny while offering comfort, but it made me even more sad. His irreverent sense of humor was one of the things that attracted me to him in the first place, but now I wish he'd turn it off sometimes."
The basic script is, say your important truth, then listen to what he says, then listen to how you feel about what he says, then watch how the relationship changes (or doesn't change) as a result of your conversation, then see if your important truth still applies.
For example, say to him, "I feel like you've been less affectionate with me lately and that makes me sad. For example, early in the relationship, (early example). But this week, (recent example)." Then pay attention to what he says. Then pay attention to how you feel about what he says. Then pay attention to what, if anything, changes as a result of this conversation.
On the other side, try your best to not guess about how he is feeling. Listen when he tells you how he feels, or ask him questions if you are uncertain and need to know. But in the medium or long term, you can't not do x because you're afraid he'll think y. If you can't get past it, the basic script still applies. Say: "I'm afraid to x because I think that you'll y. What do you think about that?" Then listen to what he says, and listen to how you feel about what he says, then observe how the relationship does or doesn't change, then return to your truth.
You should remain open to the the possibility that things in this relationship will get worse, without letting that consume you. I know that is hard! My own relationship often feels very tenuous, relative to my failed marriage-even in the days when my marriage was actively failing and I was miserable! But that's because I have a new feeling about relationships generally: I am alive to the possibility that this relationship will end, when for a long time that didn't seem like a possibility in my marriage. Being alive to the tenuousness of relationships inspires me to apply my tools to help the relationship flower-and to allow that my tools might not be effective and that the relationship might someday end.
I think that you are doing great and you will continue to do great, whether or not this relationship lasts until one of you passes away. Good luck!
posted by Kwine at 12:50 PM on December 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
First of all, I think you're doing really well. It seems like you're listening to your feelings and taking them very seriously without letting them rule the roost, and that is healthy. The description that you give reflects a pretty clear understanding of what is going on. Good job!
I think that a mistake that those of us who got into successful relationships very young can make when we are dating after those relationships end is, having an expectation that successful relationships don't take any work. After all, we stumbled into successful relationships when we were young and didn't have tools to make them work, and then they just worked for a while until they didn't. People who have had more of a struggle often understand this better, and have built tools to help relationships along when they are struggling.
For these feelings, there are tools that you can apply:
"But I feel like he's less sweet and affectionate already. I feel like he's less romantic with me and more joke-y. He teases me a lot and I feel oversensitive."
"I know it's nothing, and that he was probably trying to be funny while offering comfort, but it made me even more sad. His irreverent sense of humor was one of the things that attracted me to him in the first place, but now I wish he'd turn it off sometimes."
The basic script is, say your important truth, then listen to what he says, then listen to how you feel about what he says, then watch how the relationship changes (or doesn't change) as a result of your conversation, then see if your important truth still applies.
For example, say to him, "I feel like you've been less affectionate with me lately and that makes me sad. For example, early in the relationship, (early example). But this week, (recent example)." Then pay attention to what he says. Then pay attention to how you feel about what he says. Then pay attention to what, if anything, changes as a result of this conversation.
On the other side, try your best to not guess about how he is feeling. Listen when he tells you how he feels, or ask him questions if you are uncertain and need to know. But in the medium or long term, you can't not do x because you're afraid he'll think y. If you can't get past it, the basic script still applies. Say: "I'm afraid to x because I think that you'll y. What do you think about that?" Then listen to what he says, and listen to how you feel about what he says, then observe how the relationship does or doesn't change, then return to your truth.
You should remain open to the the possibility that things in this relationship will get worse, without letting that consume you. I know that is hard! My own relationship often feels very tenuous, relative to my failed marriage-even in the days when my marriage was actively failing and I was miserable! But that's because I have a new feeling about relationships generally: I am alive to the possibility that this relationship will end, when for a long time that didn't seem like a possibility in my marriage. Being alive to the tenuousness of relationships inspires me to apply my tools to help the relationship flower-and to allow that my tools might not be effective and that the relationship might someday end.
I think that you are doing great and you will continue to do great, whether or not this relationship lasts until one of you passes away. Good luck!
posted by Kwine at 12:50 PM on December 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
Best answer: I think the idea that the early stages of a relationship are all perfect and dreamy can sometimes be damaging. As an insecure, anxious person, I often feel insecure and anxious in the early stages of relationships -- even good relationships! It took me a while to realize that these persistent feelings weren't, like, a OMEN OF TERRIBLE PORTENT, but rather the way my mind handles intense situations. I'm not saying that he's the perfect man for you or that this relationship is great -- you'll only figure that out with more time and more experience.
That can be a difficult thing to grapple with -- for some of us, it's so much easier to convince ourselves that a new, mostly good relationship can't possibly work than to try valiantly to make it work, while also knowing that it might not. Hence the counterintuitive appeal of looking for signs of failure and doom. I tend to be my most crazy, anxious, miserable self in the first 3 months of a relationship, irrespective of the quality of the relationship itself. If you're wired that way, too, be careful when latching onto relatively trivial things as signs-that-it-won't-work-out.
posted by attentionplease at 12:58 PM on December 30, 2016 [7 favorites]
That can be a difficult thing to grapple with -- for some of us, it's so much easier to convince ourselves that a new, mostly good relationship can't possibly work than to try valiantly to make it work, while also knowing that it might not. Hence the counterintuitive appeal of looking for signs of failure and doom. I tend to be my most crazy, anxious, miserable self in the first 3 months of a relationship, irrespective of the quality of the relationship itself. If you're wired that way, too, be careful when latching onto relatively trivial things as signs-that-it-won't-work-out.
posted by attentionplease at 12:58 PM on December 30, 2016 [7 favorites]
In my experience, relationships with guys who push for intense emotional intimacy--which is what it sounds like this guy is doing--often fizzle out, because you've gotten really intimate without actually knowing each other that well, and that causes odd problems. For instance, the guy can get sort of disillusioned with the reality of you, because he's been pursuing a fantasy version of you for the last couple of months. And then at some point it hits him like a sack of bricks that you're a real person with your own ideas and likes and dislikes and many of those things don't match up with the fantasy he's been pursuing.
If this is a good relationship and one that will last, then I think you have to try and talk to him again about how you're feeling and see how he responds. Tell him you're not comfortable with the way he's teasing you and that you'd like him to cut down on it. Tell him you like him but you're not ready to talk about big plans for the future like buying a house together just yet. Tell him you're feeling a bit vulnerable right now. If he responds in a way that makes you feel worse even if you can't really explain why (our guts are often right, but they don't always communicate in 5-paragraph essays), then I would seriously consider dumping him.
posted by colfax at 1:08 PM on December 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
If this is a good relationship and one that will last, then I think you have to try and talk to him again about how you're feeling and see how he responds. Tell him you're not comfortable with the way he's teasing you and that you'd like him to cut down on it. Tell him you like him but you're not ready to talk about big plans for the future like buying a house together just yet. Tell him you're feeling a bit vulnerable right now. If he responds in a way that makes you feel worse even if you can't really explain why (our guts are often right, but they don't always communicate in 5-paragraph essays), then I would seriously consider dumping him.
posted by colfax at 1:08 PM on December 30, 2016 [13 favorites]
I'm gonna wave the red flag here. This guy put on the full court press in apparent disregard of your obvious discomfort. His response to your actual tears of discomfort with vulnerability less than a year after your divorce *was to press some more*.
"Don't you think you're being a big baby?" Is putting you down. In a really manipulative way, and then following it up with physical contact. Early in a new relationship.
He's said things that scare you? It doesn't have to be something that's "officially" scary or validly frightening -- YOU FEEL SCARED.
You feel scared and nervous and anxious all the time, and that's because this guy is pushing at your very reasonable boundaries and overwhelming you, and he doesn't seem to care that it's upsetting you. You know what that sort of overwhelming flooding does? It disorients people. It makes them less likely to trust their own gut.
Especially if they're already vulnerable.
I AM WAVING ALL THE RED FLAGS.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:34 PM on December 30, 2016 [22 favorites]
"Don't you think you're being a big baby?" Is putting you down. In a really manipulative way, and then following it up with physical contact. Early in a new relationship.
He's said things that scare you? It doesn't have to be something that's "officially" scary or validly frightening -- YOU FEEL SCARED.
You feel scared and nervous and anxious all the time, and that's because this guy is pushing at your very reasonable boundaries and overwhelming you, and he doesn't seem to care that it's upsetting you. You know what that sort of overwhelming flooding does? It disorients people. It makes them less likely to trust their own gut.
Especially if they're already vulnerable.
I AM WAVING ALL THE RED FLAGS.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:34 PM on December 30, 2016 [22 favorites]
In the context of a boyfriend who seems to be on an accelerated emotional schedule, this uneasiness you feel worries me. True, you are definitely in a place in life where you are vulnerable to irrational anxieties, excessive insecurities, and the like. On the other hand, it sounds like you are already feeling a loss of power in the relationship, and, rather than try to reassure you, your boyfriend is diminishing your feelings in a way you find hurtful. You've only been dating this guy six weeks and already you're feeling miserable and overpowered? This is not right. Either your communication styles are a poor match, which bodes ill so early on, or...
...he's laying the groundwork for an abusive, or at least exploitative, relationship. I'm not saying this is definitely happening, or even that it's the most likely scenario, but the way you are talking about your relationship sounds a fair amount like the tales of lightning romance turning into cruelty that so many abuse narratives start with.
Either way, I think the best thing to do is slow down and back off a little. It's one thing to confirm that you two are essentially on the same page about looking for a long-term relationship, it's another thing to act like you've already personally committed to moving in together! See the guy less. Don't warp your life to fit around his. And when he says something that makes you feel belittled or dismissed, let him know. If he doesn't try to change his ways--if he's not interested in putting effort into trying not to hurt you inadvertently--then he is not worth having, regardless.
posted by praemunire at 1:35 PM on December 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
...he's laying the groundwork for an abusive, or at least exploitative, relationship. I'm not saying this is definitely happening, or even that it's the most likely scenario, but the way you are talking about your relationship sounds a fair amount like the tales of lightning romance turning into cruelty that so many abuse narratives start with.
Either way, I think the best thing to do is slow down and back off a little. It's one thing to confirm that you two are essentially on the same page about looking for a long-term relationship, it's another thing to act like you've already personally committed to moving in together! See the guy less. Don't warp your life to fit around his. And when he says something that makes you feel belittled or dismissed, let him know. If he doesn't try to change his ways--if he's not interested in putting effort into trying not to hurt you inadvertently--then he is not worth having, regardless.
posted by praemunire at 1:35 PM on December 30, 2016 [3 favorites]
After our third date, he checked in on how I was feeling about us, and told me straight up that he liked being with me, and he wanted this to work out. I panicked. I wasn't ready to be vulnerable.
Your not being ready to be so vulnerable doesn't read as unreasonable to me. Panicking might have been a little extreme, but it's not weird to feel that you aren't ready for commitment and deep vulnerability so quickly. Three dates is only maybe 6 hours and we're all different in how we build trust and get to know people. Maybe you're a slow builder. I am; his pace would feel quite quick to me. Not the talking-about-big-things conversations, but the level of commitment. I don't think your sense of alarm is off-base here, particularly because you're not as gung-ho as he is--so either he is not being responsive and actually processing things with you, or you guys just straight-up aren't on the same schedule.
That said, I don't hear him being pushy in this interaction. Maybe, since you were there, you perceived some pressure or pushiness (and I would trust that if it's the case); but ideally I think he can state how he feels, and give openness for how you feel, even if it's different from him. And you give him the same. Like, "I want this to work out, and wanted to share that with you." Did it feel that way?
A few more dates later, after almost a month of dating in total, he asked me where I saw this going. He said that he wasn't seeing anyone else. He was looking for a serious relationship and if I didn't want the same thing then we should probably part ways.
You say this struck you as fair. I'm not sure this is the only thing you could take from the conversation. I think there may be an invisible phrase in that sentence: He was looking for a serious relationship [and wanted it to proceed at a particular pace, in a particular way] and if I didn't want the same thing then we should probably part ways. You may be looking for a serious relationship, but on a different timetable, and with specific requirements around vulnerability and a safe space of holding for one another. If he's implying that because you're different than he is it means you aren't looking for a serious relationship, that's not really fair. It sounds like he might not be listening to your side of things. But it is good information, I guess. It could be helpful to get specific on what he's looking for and when, and the same for you, and then see whether it's compatible or not. Don't just succumb to pressure, but also try not to succumb to the anxiety.
Instead of sweetly reassuring me, he said, "Really? Are you being a big baby? Get your ass over here," and spooned himself around me.
It's possible this was his way of reassuring you, and he'd be open to changing it to be more responsive to what you actually need. You might both need more time to figure out how to be with one another. Maybe a former partner of his liked to be distracted, kidded, and then held (IDK, but maybe). I think this is the kind of thing that you'd be aiming to explore if you became an exclusive couple. So you could bring it up, and see whether he can hold your pain and question, and be responsive to it. Ideally you could express that you still felt sad. And this will give you information about how things are going. Is he flexible? Does he take your feeling and expression of it seriously? Does he respect it? Can you remember the last time you felt respected and heard?
posted by ramenopres at 2:05 PM on December 30, 2016
Your not being ready to be so vulnerable doesn't read as unreasonable to me. Panicking might have been a little extreme, but it's not weird to feel that you aren't ready for commitment and deep vulnerability so quickly. Three dates is only maybe 6 hours and we're all different in how we build trust and get to know people. Maybe you're a slow builder. I am; his pace would feel quite quick to me. Not the talking-about-big-things conversations, but the level of commitment. I don't think your sense of alarm is off-base here, particularly because you're not as gung-ho as he is--so either he is not being responsive and actually processing things with you, or you guys just straight-up aren't on the same schedule.
That said, I don't hear him being pushy in this interaction. Maybe, since you were there, you perceived some pressure or pushiness (and I would trust that if it's the case); but ideally I think he can state how he feels, and give openness for how you feel, even if it's different from him. And you give him the same. Like, "I want this to work out, and wanted to share that with you." Did it feel that way?
A few more dates later, after almost a month of dating in total, he asked me where I saw this going. He said that he wasn't seeing anyone else. He was looking for a serious relationship and if I didn't want the same thing then we should probably part ways.
You say this struck you as fair. I'm not sure this is the only thing you could take from the conversation. I think there may be an invisible phrase in that sentence: He was looking for a serious relationship [and wanted it to proceed at a particular pace, in a particular way] and if I didn't want the same thing then we should probably part ways. You may be looking for a serious relationship, but on a different timetable, and with specific requirements around vulnerability and a safe space of holding for one another. If he's implying that because you're different than he is it means you aren't looking for a serious relationship, that's not really fair. It sounds like he might not be listening to your side of things. But it is good information, I guess. It could be helpful to get specific on what he's looking for and when, and the same for you, and then see whether it's compatible or not. Don't just succumb to pressure, but also try not to succumb to the anxiety.
Instead of sweetly reassuring me, he said, "Really? Are you being a big baby? Get your ass over here," and spooned himself around me.
It's possible this was his way of reassuring you, and he'd be open to changing it to be more responsive to what you actually need. You might both need more time to figure out how to be with one another. Maybe a former partner of his liked to be distracted, kidded, and then held (IDK, but maybe). I think this is the kind of thing that you'd be aiming to explore if you became an exclusive couple. So you could bring it up, and see whether he can hold your pain and question, and be responsive to it. Ideally you could express that you still felt sad. And this will give you information about how things are going. Is he flexible? Does he take your feeling and expression of it seriously? Does he respect it? Can you remember the last time you felt respected and heard?
posted by ramenopres at 2:05 PM on December 30, 2016
RUN RUN RUN I AM ALSO WAVING ALL THE RED FLAGS!!!!!!
I was annoyed when he mentioned having children on your second date. Your friends led you astray, he doesn't sound wonderful, he sounds like an awful manipulative creeper!!
He has walked right over every decent boundary you have and have not voiced. RUN away from this crazy awful person. Wait! I take that back!! Instead, back away from him very very slowly. He's taking advantage of your lack of experience. Borrow my life experience, back away from this guy. He's the type to turn mean or even stalkery, so don't be surprise when he has a personality flip.
Get out of this. He's awful. RUN.
posted by jbenben at 2:38 PM on December 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
I was annoyed when he mentioned having children on your second date. Your friends led you astray, he doesn't sound wonderful, he sounds like an awful manipulative creeper!!
He has walked right over every decent boundary you have and have not voiced. RUN away from this crazy awful person. Wait! I take that back!! Instead, back away from him very very slowly. He's taking advantage of your lack of experience. Borrow my life experience, back away from this guy. He's the type to turn mean or even stalkery, so don't be surprise when he has a personality flip.
Get out of this. He's awful. RUN.
posted by jbenben at 2:38 PM on December 30, 2016 [6 favorites]
this guy is pushing, pushing, pushing for emotional intimacy and commitment way earlier than is appropriate because this will put him in a position of control over you. whether he knows he is consciously being a manipulative partner, or whether this is the only way he knows how to relate to a lover - that is unknown, but that doesn't change what's going on.
step way back, if not so far back that you dump his ass.
you will meet someone who will not push like this, and will let dating be FUN! until you know each other well enough to make a totally voluntary assessment about getting serious and being committed. that certainly shouldn't happen at date two, or, imo, even within the first couple months of getting to know someone. you can't commit to someone unless you know them well, and in order to know them well, you need plenty of time to see them in different situations and circumstances and to see how they react to/handle problems, disagreements, inconvenience, good and bad luck, etc.
if he wasn't being manipulative, then his response to you wanting to slow down would be...slowing down without bitching about it. he might continue to communicate his genuine interest often, which is fine, but also, slow down. definitely not calling you a big baby for wanting to slow down/infantilizing you even though he's trying to make you feel better, allegedly. jesus. that part really made my eyebrows shoot up.
if you really like him & you wanna give him a chance here, then set some boundaries, and see how he reacts. change some plans. say no to sex or say no to physical contact sometimes - watch closely how he reacts to this especially. spend time with your friends and family more often, even if that means you have to see him a little less. ask him to not call or text after a certain time because you have to get up early, or because you're [involved in whatever engrossing activity or hobby you have]. does he handle these requests respectfully and back off without making you feel guilty for living your own life? or does he whine and complain and try to essentially nag you into doing what he would prefer you do, whether that's spending a certain amount of time with him or always being available to respond to him, etc.?
posted by zdravo at 3:09 PM on December 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
step way back, if not so far back that you dump his ass.
you will meet someone who will not push like this, and will let dating be FUN! until you know each other well enough to make a totally voluntary assessment about getting serious and being committed. that certainly shouldn't happen at date two, or, imo, even within the first couple months of getting to know someone. you can't commit to someone unless you know them well, and in order to know them well, you need plenty of time to see them in different situations and circumstances and to see how they react to/handle problems, disagreements, inconvenience, good and bad luck, etc.
if he wasn't being manipulative, then his response to you wanting to slow down would be...slowing down without bitching about it. he might continue to communicate his genuine interest often, which is fine, but also, slow down. definitely not calling you a big baby for wanting to slow down/infantilizing you even though he's trying to make you feel better, allegedly. jesus. that part really made my eyebrows shoot up.
if you really like him & you wanna give him a chance here, then set some boundaries, and see how he reacts. change some plans. say no to sex or say no to physical contact sometimes - watch closely how he reacts to this especially. spend time with your friends and family more often, even if that means you have to see him a little less. ask him to not call or text after a certain time because you have to get up early, or because you're [involved in whatever engrossing activity or hobby you have]. does he handle these requests respectfully and back off without making you feel guilty for living your own life? or does he whine and complain and try to essentially nag you into doing what he would prefer you do, whether that's spending a certain amount of time with him or always being available to respond to him, etc.?
posted by zdravo at 3:09 PM on December 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
To answer your question about what's "normal" in relationships...
Everything you describe is normal for a relationship that turns toxic, controlling, and possibly abusive. That said, I would argue this relationship is already abusive since I can spot a few times where he's outright manipulated you and talked you into things you weren't keen on.
Normal first few months of dating include lots of fun outings and getting to know each other, allowing things to unfold naturally. It's abnormal to talk about having children and buying houses together on a 2nd date, abnormal to be pressured into a commitment on a 3rd date. Every time this kind of intense pressuring has happened to me early on, the relationship always ended in pretty ugly ways.
Full Discloser: Nine years ago, I married my husband after knowing him for two months, and then dating for two weeks. The flow of the first few years of our relationship felt, looked, tasted, and smelled NOTHING like what you have described here. It's not that I think people can't hit it off right away and commit quickly, rather, I know from experiencing this phenomenon both the right way and in the wrong ways that what you are experiencing is the very bad no good flavor of this thing.
posted by jbenben at 3:16 PM on December 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
Everything you describe is normal for a relationship that turns toxic, controlling, and possibly abusive. That said, I would argue this relationship is already abusive since I can spot a few times where he's outright manipulated you and talked you into things you weren't keen on.
Normal first few months of dating include lots of fun outings and getting to know each other, allowing things to unfold naturally. It's abnormal to talk about having children and buying houses together on a 2nd date, abnormal to be pressured into a commitment on a 3rd date. Every time this kind of intense pressuring has happened to me early on, the relationship always ended in pretty ugly ways.
Full Discloser: Nine years ago, I married my husband after knowing him for two months, and then dating for two weeks. The flow of the first few years of our relationship felt, looked, tasted, and smelled NOTHING like what you have described here. It's not that I think people can't hit it off right away and commit quickly, rather, I know from experiencing this phenomenon both the right way and in the wrong ways that what you are experiencing is the very bad no good flavor of this thing.
posted by jbenben at 3:16 PM on December 30, 2016 [5 favorites]
There may be an emotionally unstable basketcase here, but I really don't think it's you. Red flags all around.
I'm currently you a year ago (and the same age) and starting to entertain the idea of dating again. What you're describing is one of my fears about re-entering the dating world, that I'll fall for the first guy who seems to really want me and be too vulnerable/emotional/unsure to see the things that aren't right with him and chalk all of it up to my own issues. I also worry that if I learn my ex is dating someone new, it will create this tiny competitive feeling in me to also find someone and I'll latch onto something that isn't truly what I want. I'm not saying that's what's happening here or that it's your fault (it is not!), but it might be helpful to look at yourself and ask yourself what has kept you moving forward with this guy.
You're afraid to get hurt, you're feeling pressured, his affection is inconsistent, you're feeling it fizzle after less than 2 months, he's steering the relationship in the direction HE wants it to go, he ISN'T HEARING YOU so you don't feel safe opening up to him, he belittles you when you're genuinely upset, and he's projecting his desires onto you and completely ignoring your MANY signals to pump the breaks. I'm sure he has some great qualities but, does this feel like a real partnership to you? I think your instincts are 100% right here, and maybe you ARE feeling insecure and unconfident, but you're placing way too much of the blame on yourself. Your feelings are reasonable. This doesn't feel right because it isn't right. How could anyone feel secure with a guy like this?
I like what colfax said. I would lay it all out there and see what happens. If he can acknowledge that he's been Too Much Too Fast and not sensitive to your feelings AND truly respect some new boundaries/pacing, there may be hope. If not, I'd tell him you want different things and bail.
You've been through so much in the past year. This part should feel good and fun. Protect your heart and find something that feels good and fun. And therapy can really help with the self-esteem stuff.
posted by blackcatcuriouser at 6:13 PM on December 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm currently you a year ago (and the same age) and starting to entertain the idea of dating again. What you're describing is one of my fears about re-entering the dating world, that I'll fall for the first guy who seems to really want me and be too vulnerable/emotional/unsure to see the things that aren't right with him and chalk all of it up to my own issues. I also worry that if I learn my ex is dating someone new, it will create this tiny competitive feeling in me to also find someone and I'll latch onto something that isn't truly what I want. I'm not saying that's what's happening here or that it's your fault (it is not!), but it might be helpful to look at yourself and ask yourself what has kept you moving forward with this guy.
You're afraid to get hurt, you're feeling pressured, his affection is inconsistent, you're feeling it fizzle after less than 2 months, he's steering the relationship in the direction HE wants it to go, he ISN'T HEARING YOU so you don't feel safe opening up to him, he belittles you when you're genuinely upset, and he's projecting his desires onto you and completely ignoring your MANY signals to pump the breaks. I'm sure he has some great qualities but, does this feel like a real partnership to you? I think your instincts are 100% right here, and maybe you ARE feeling insecure and unconfident, but you're placing way too much of the blame on yourself. Your feelings are reasonable. This doesn't feel right because it isn't right. How could anyone feel secure with a guy like this?
I like what colfax said. I would lay it all out there and see what happens. If he can acknowledge that he's been Too Much Too Fast and not sensitive to your feelings AND truly respect some new boundaries/pacing, there may be hope. If not, I'd tell him you want different things and bail.
You've been through so much in the past year. This part should feel good and fun. Protect your heart and find something that feels good and fun. And therapy can really help with the self-esteem stuff.
posted by blackcatcuriouser at 6:13 PM on December 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
This could be so normal, or this could be so creepy. For example:
I feel like he's less romantic with me and more joke-y. He teases me a lot and I feel oversensitive.
This sounds a lot like Mr. Freedom. As we got to know each other and became more intimate and relaxed around each other, he felt more comfortable teasing me. Most of the time, it makes me laugh and I tease him right back. Sometimes, it's too much - but the key is, during those times, I just say, "Look, can you quit it?" and he does.
However, I also dated a guy who was overly jokey and it did not sit well with me. On our first date, we were being sarcastic with one another, and he teased me about something. Wanting to play along, I teased him right back, and he laughed and said, "Oh, fuck you!" He was still teasing, but I felt like, ehhh, I don't know you well enough for that, I'm a little offended. We did not date for very long.
Sorry that this doesn't give you any concrete advice other than - it's up to you and how you feel about this relationship. I guess maybe just know that it is totally ok to do what you feel is best - break up or stay together - because you're the one in the relationship and there is no wrong answer here. *hugs*
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:27 AM on December 31, 2016
I feel like he's less romantic with me and more joke-y. He teases me a lot and I feel oversensitive.
This sounds a lot like Mr. Freedom. As we got to know each other and became more intimate and relaxed around each other, he felt more comfortable teasing me. Most of the time, it makes me laugh and I tease him right back. Sometimes, it's too much - but the key is, during those times, I just say, "Look, can you quit it?" and he does.
However, I also dated a guy who was overly jokey and it did not sit well with me. On our first date, we were being sarcastic with one another, and he teased me about something. Wanting to play along, I teased him right back, and he laughed and said, "Oh, fuck you!" He was still teasing, but I felt like, ehhh, I don't know you well enough for that, I'm a little offended. We did not date for very long.
Sorry that this doesn't give you any concrete advice other than - it's up to you and how you feel about this relationship. I guess maybe just know that it is totally ok to do what you feel is best - break up or stay together - because you're the one in the relationship and there is no wrong answer here. *hugs*
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:27 AM on December 31, 2016
Or in more succinct terms: you're allowed to not like this.
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:28 AM on December 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by chainsofreedom at 6:28 AM on December 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I think the reason why you're feeling unsure is because you leapt into something a little too quick. I do think it's wise to be wary of men who push for monogamy quickly - in my experience, they are trying to rush the relationship (for whatever reasons) and once you're on the hook, they aren't as interested. I'm not saying this is 100% what is happening here. But, if you are feeling this insecure and vulnerable it's for a reason. This early in a relationship you should be excited!
I really strongly feel you should listen to what your gut is telling you. Sure, maybe on a logical level everything seems like it should be fine. But there is a wise part inside of you that knows something is wrong. Listen to that! Maybe back off and get some space. Examine whether you really want to be with this guy or not. Maybe some of your fears are actually projections of how you're truly feeling.
Don't waste time trying to make someone love you. If this isn't working for YOU - and it sounds like it isn't, if you are feeling this insecure - then you need to examine that.
posted by chestnut-haired-sunfish at 12:29 PM on December 30, 2016 [3 favorites]