On moving from major cities back to somewhere smaller (have you?)
December 23, 2016 12:56 PM Subscribe
Of course there are a lot of posts about where to live and lately I have a lot of conversations about it. Some of them involve what is probably just a fantasy (fueled by traffic and expense) of moving somewhere much smaller, with much less going on.
I really doubt we will do this but I'm curious to hear from people who have. I guess I mean specifically people who moved to cities because cities are where the interesting stuff happens (I deliberately made my way from a town of 30K on up to NYC and now live in the Bay Area) and then made the conscious decision that a certain time in life had passed and that a certain kind of ease would be welcome again.
Were you bored? Did you find things to compensate for the fact that you couldn't choose between a dozen Ethiopian restaurants? Did you have regrets?
I suppose I should specify that this is not a "where can we raise the kids" thing. We're not kid people, and we don't need that kind of lifestyle stuff. I'm not sure my boyfriend's reasons for having this fantasy are exactly the same as mine, but mine basically tend toward: I'd like not to be part of a real estate rat race; I'd like to spend less time thinking about how very many car and home break-ins there seem to be in my neighborhood; I'm weary and a little scared of my anger dealing with the other million drivers trying to go the places I'm going; I'm more ambivalent about the anonymity of cities than I used to be (honestly I used to find it comforting.)
[The main reason this almost surely won't happen is that we'd need friends there, and don't have any concentration of friends in even medium sized towns. I tried to talk everyone into moving to El Paso but it didn't work.]
So if you've made this kind of change, could you say how it went? Or if you share this particular fantasy or wish to dispel it, of course feel free to chime in with thoughts about it.
I really doubt we will do this but I'm curious to hear from people who have. I guess I mean specifically people who moved to cities because cities are where the interesting stuff happens (I deliberately made my way from a town of 30K on up to NYC and now live in the Bay Area) and then made the conscious decision that a certain time in life had passed and that a certain kind of ease would be welcome again.
Were you bored? Did you find things to compensate for the fact that you couldn't choose between a dozen Ethiopian restaurants? Did you have regrets?
I suppose I should specify that this is not a "where can we raise the kids" thing. We're not kid people, and we don't need that kind of lifestyle stuff. I'm not sure my boyfriend's reasons for having this fantasy are exactly the same as mine, but mine basically tend toward: I'd like not to be part of a real estate rat race; I'd like to spend less time thinking about how very many car and home break-ins there seem to be in my neighborhood; I'm weary and a little scared of my anger dealing with the other million drivers trying to go the places I'm going; I'm more ambivalent about the anonymity of cities than I used to be (honestly I used to find it comforting.)
[The main reason this almost surely won't happen is that we'd need friends there, and don't have any concentration of friends in even medium sized towns. I tried to talk everyone into moving to El Paso but it didn't work.]
So if you've made this kind of change, could you say how it went? Or if you share this particular fantasy or wish to dispel it, of course feel free to chime in with thoughts about it.
After a life spent mostly in Dallas, Houston and Austin, I moved to a small town ("greater" population about 15K) in northern NY to be close to my daughter, whose mother had moved back there (her home) after we split. It was a lovely little town on Lake Ontario, with a river walk, a quaint and somewhat historic downtown, and a University to bring up the general quality of cultural attitudes. In a way, it was like Springfield in The Simpsons, in that it was a small town that nevertheless had a lot of things one wouldn't expect small towns to have, such as a multiplex cinema, a port and a nuclear plant (no monorail though). I really believe it was an exceptionally nice small-town experience, but I was still pretty bored, particularly in winter. The nearest urban area was Syracuse, which was not really urban enough for my tastes, and, I thought, a long way to drive for a decent mall. Rochester was better, but meant an almost three hour round-trip, especially difficult during the long winter. I can't say I hated it, but I can't say I liked it either. I certainly wouldn't go back.
I have to admit life was very inexpensive there, if that's what you're looking for — I was able to buy a nice old Victorian house for less than $100K. But I felt isolated, and missed all the resources (particularly restaurants and stores) I had grown used to in the big cities.
posted by ubiquity at 1:19 PM on December 23, 2016
I have to admit life was very inexpensive there, if that's what you're looking for — I was able to buy a nice old Victorian house for less than $100K. But I felt isolated, and missed all the resources (particularly restaurants and stores) I had grown used to in the big cities.
posted by ubiquity at 1:19 PM on December 23, 2016
in 2005, I moved from Atlanta to a small town in East Tennessee. I'd spent the better part of my life in cities; raised in NYC, uni in Tucson, then ten years in Hotlanta. Then I met my now-husband and he offered me instant poverty and a cabin in the woods. How could I say no?
The things I miss include an assortment of ethnic cuisines, food delivery to my home and the ability to buy odd or ethnic food items (my regular food shop in Atlanta was the DeKalb Farmers Market, which is the Star Wars Cantina Scene of grocery stores.) I miss the availability of cultural and special-interest events. I miss feeling surrounded by people who share my political and social values. You know, all the predictable stuff.
I don't miss the feeling of... not unsafety, exactly, but always-on-guardness of living in a city. Here in the sticks, we often leave our house and cars unlocked. I have no concerns walking the dogs on the greenbelt before dawn. You do have to mind your manners, though. Move to a small-enough town and someone will recognize you pretty much everywhere, so don't show your ass in public. I don't miss city housing costs - the mortgage on our 2br/1ba cottage is under $400/month.
I understand why city dwellers typically avoid eye contact and don't make small talk. It's a way of insulating oneself from the complete strangers who share our space, time and walls. But here in the outlands, we acknowledge each other, with a small wave or "How's it going?" when we cross strangers on the sidewalk. We use "Sir" and "Ma'am" a lot. We usually hold doors for each other.
Small-town living has its upsides and downsides, but for me at least, it held few surprises.
posted by workerant at 1:25 PM on December 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
The things I miss include an assortment of ethnic cuisines, food delivery to my home and the ability to buy odd or ethnic food items (my regular food shop in Atlanta was the DeKalb Farmers Market, which is the Star Wars Cantina Scene of grocery stores.) I miss the availability of cultural and special-interest events. I miss feeling surrounded by people who share my political and social values. You know, all the predictable stuff.
I don't miss the feeling of... not unsafety, exactly, but always-on-guardness of living in a city. Here in the sticks, we often leave our house and cars unlocked. I have no concerns walking the dogs on the greenbelt before dawn. You do have to mind your manners, though. Move to a small-enough town and someone will recognize you pretty much everywhere, so don't show your ass in public. I don't miss city housing costs - the mortgage on our 2br/1ba cottage is under $400/month.
I understand why city dwellers typically avoid eye contact and don't make small talk. It's a way of insulating oneself from the complete strangers who share our space, time and walls. But here in the outlands, we acknowledge each other, with a small wave or "How's it going?" when we cross strangers on the sidewalk. We use "Sir" and "Ma'am" a lot. We usually hold doors for each other.
Small-town living has its upsides and downsides, but for me at least, it held few surprises.
posted by workerant at 1:25 PM on December 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
I went from working in Boston to a small town on the gulf coast of Florida.
I loved the shorter drive to work, the slower pace of life. I made friend through work and church and hobbies.
No you don't have as many choices, but that means you don't have to make as many decisions all the time either. Life slowed down. I had less expenses so I could afford a few luxuries.
I don't live there anymore but it was a good experience at the time.
posted by SyraCarol at 1:25 PM on December 23, 2016
I loved the shorter drive to work, the slower pace of life. I made friend through work and church and hobbies.
No you don't have as many choices, but that means you don't have to make as many decisions all the time either. Life slowed down. I had less expenses so I could afford a few luxuries.
I don't live there anymore but it was a good experience at the time.
posted by SyraCarol at 1:25 PM on December 23, 2016
So maybe I have a unique perspective for you. My wife and I live in Amsterdam for 3 months each year and the rest of the the year we live in a remote small town on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington.
We fell in love with Amsterdam for all the interesting stuff happening. And we wanted to spend as much time there as we could. We looked at moving permanently, but decided to split our time instead.
I love the remote small town. I'm not bored, but I also love the lack of activities. I can go sailing and hiking whenever I want. No Bay Area-type driving, parking or crowds. No anyone really. I can go to the Post Office or the DMV and there's almost never a line. The guy at the DMV is actually glad someone came in. Compare that to the Santa Clara DMV. I do get tired of the same three restaurants, but I just give it a shrug really. I prefer to cook for us myself anyway. There's basically no crime here. I rarely lock the house. I usually leave my keys in the car.
In Amsterdam we're surrounded by 180 different nationalities, have endless options for food, drink and entertainment. It's crazy crowded these days, and it hardly phases me. It's a good idea to book a table just about any night and I'm constantly dealing with crowds, lines and "the Dutch way of queueing." I LOVE IT.
And then we go back to the PNW and I'm immediately back in to the swing of things, or rather, lack thereof.
My wife and I grew up in Cupertino and fled the Bay Area crowds, moving to a 40K pop city in the Willamette Valley before ending up here in Port Townsend.
But in the end, it's really, really personal preference whether or not you're going to get on in a small town. You may be right, I think friends really are the key. We have the best friends in both places now, and honestly we'd be living in Amsterdam permanently now if it weren't for our friends here in PT.
posted by humboldt32 at 1:26 PM on December 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
We fell in love with Amsterdam for all the interesting stuff happening. And we wanted to spend as much time there as we could. We looked at moving permanently, but decided to split our time instead.
I love the remote small town. I'm not bored, but I also love the lack of activities. I can go sailing and hiking whenever I want. No Bay Area-type driving, parking or crowds. No anyone really. I can go to the Post Office or the DMV and there's almost never a line. The guy at the DMV is actually glad someone came in. Compare that to the Santa Clara DMV. I do get tired of the same three restaurants, but I just give it a shrug really. I prefer to cook for us myself anyway. There's basically no crime here. I rarely lock the house. I usually leave my keys in the car.
In Amsterdam we're surrounded by 180 different nationalities, have endless options for food, drink and entertainment. It's crazy crowded these days, and it hardly phases me. It's a good idea to book a table just about any night and I'm constantly dealing with crowds, lines and "the Dutch way of queueing." I LOVE IT.
And then we go back to the PNW and I'm immediately back in to the swing of things, or rather, lack thereof.
My wife and I grew up in Cupertino and fled the Bay Area crowds, moving to a 40K pop city in the Willamette Valley before ending up here in Port Townsend.
But in the end, it's really, really personal preference whether or not you're going to get on in a small town. You may be right, I think friends really are the key. We have the best friends in both places now, and honestly we'd be living in Amsterdam permanently now if it weren't for our friends here in PT.
posted by humboldt32 at 1:26 PM on December 23, 2016 [15 favorites]
We moved from Chicago to a small city of 30K in April of this year. While there are many things we enjoy, as my question from earlier today indicated, we'll probably be moving back into a city (New York this time) within the next couple of months. Some of our reasons:
But in the end, it's really just reinforced that cities are worth their tradeoffs and costs for us.
posted by enn at 1:38 PM on December 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
- We expected the cost of living to be significantly lower because we moved to an area with cheap real estate; in fact, it's likely higher, between the (unpredictable and spiky) costs of keeping up an older house (the only kind available in the downtown area where we wanted to live), car ownership and use (we never had, or missed, a car in the city), and price gouging due to less competition
- Both of us really dislike having to drive to do the kinds of basic errands that can be taken care of on foot in a city (although it sounds like you already do a lot of driving)
- We used to love to go out to a neighborhood bar for after-dinner drinks on a Sunday or Monday night, when things where quiet and relaxed. Here there is little or nothing open for dinner, much less drinks, on a Monday night. During the week most places close at 10 if you're lucky, more commonly 8.
- I do miss the novelty of being able to easily visit new neighborhoods, restaurants, shops, etc.
- I really miss good public transit. I biked in the city more than I availed myself of the train, but there are times it's nice to be a passenger.
- Post-election I'm much less comfortable living in a tiny blue dot in a red county. The sea of Trump signs starts only a couple miles from our door and that's too close. Those voters have real power over local government here in ways that directly affects our quality of life.
- Post-election I am also much less comfortable owning property. It feels less like security and more like a trap. I worry about the economic or political climate leaving me paying a mortgage on a property that is worthless, uninhabitable (if, for example, Trump makes good on his threat to cut off all funds to sanctuary cities, and basic services can't be maintained), or both.
But in the end, it's really just reinforced that cities are worth their tradeoffs and costs for us.
posted by enn at 1:38 PM on December 23, 2016 [3 favorites]
A few years ago, I moved from NYC to a smallish East Coast college town, population 40k excluding students. It was the best decision I've made, both personally and professionally. It helped that I was sick of city life (and specifically NYC life) and wanted to be somewhere where I didn't have to jostle with 8 million strangers on a daily basis.
The transition away from New York City was surprisingly easy. It helped that I was absolutely sick of NYC for the same reasons you seem to be, but CollegeTown had some very specific pros going for it. There was an excellent and very affordable restaurant scene; I ate out at better places than I had in NYC. Likewise, the presence of the university attracted a lot of good theatre, both community theatre as well as larger touring companies that stopped through. Excellent hiking and wineries within 20-30 minutes fostered a general "go chill outdoors" vibe. And my new workplace was phenomenally supportive of my goals; I had an instant group of work-friends that very quickly became real friends. I also used MeetUp to find non-work friends with similar interests. I liked having "my" coffee shop and "my" bagel place and "my" local pub -- the town was small enough to foster a sense of belonging but not quite so small that I would run into the same people over and over.
Downsides were that it was not very walkable or bikeable outside the immediate university/college student area, and public transit was laughable, so you were stuck driving pretty much everywhere, and the dating population in late 20s/early 30s was pretty small. These were not dealbreakers for me.
I'm now living in Philadelphia, and I'm very homesick for that old town -- I quite like Philadelphia, but "home" is where I moved from and hope to move back to once my current assignment is done.
posted by basalganglia at 1:40 PM on December 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
The transition away from New York City was surprisingly easy. It helped that I was absolutely sick of NYC for the same reasons you seem to be, but CollegeTown had some very specific pros going for it. There was an excellent and very affordable restaurant scene; I ate out at better places than I had in NYC. Likewise, the presence of the university attracted a lot of good theatre, both community theatre as well as larger touring companies that stopped through. Excellent hiking and wineries within 20-30 minutes fostered a general "go chill outdoors" vibe. And my new workplace was phenomenally supportive of my goals; I had an instant group of work-friends that very quickly became real friends. I also used MeetUp to find non-work friends with similar interests. I liked having "my" coffee shop and "my" bagel place and "my" local pub -- the town was small enough to foster a sense of belonging but not quite so small that I would run into the same people over and over.
Downsides were that it was not very walkable or bikeable outside the immediate university/college student area, and public transit was laughable, so you were stuck driving pretty much everywhere, and the dating population in late 20s/early 30s was pretty small. These were not dealbreakers for me.
I'm now living in Philadelphia, and I'm very homesick for that old town -- I quite like Philadelphia, but "home" is where I moved from and hope to move back to once my current assignment is done.
posted by basalganglia at 1:40 PM on December 23, 2016 [2 favorites]
There are so many mid-sized cities that will give you some of the advantages of both and also have some of the drawbacks of both as well. Eau Claire, Wisconsin and Peoria, Illinois come to mind. You can find a place that is small but near enough to an urban area that you can still go there once a month and it doesn't feel like a long trip. If you found a community like this, you would be in a good position to relocate again to the large city if you found you didn't like the small town.
Rural living has some traffic, violence and property crime, too. There are still weekday lunch and weekend brunch rushes at the local restaurants. My town has a higher percentage of chains than larger cities, but we do still have several independent stores and restaurants. I did this in a way, because I used to live in Minneapolis but now I live an hour away in town of 8 thousand people after growing up in a ~50K town. I do still work in Minneapolis, though, so I still get many of the advantages of city life. I have done the suburb thing where I lived like ten miles away from work but still had a 45 minute bus/walk commute. The most concerning thing to me after my commute was the fact that there is no public transit that takes me from my home to my job and/or any of my family member's homes. Having two adults and 2+ cars in the household has made this a non-issue, however.
posted by soelo at 1:42 PM on December 23, 2016
Rural living has some traffic, violence and property crime, too. There are still weekday lunch and weekend brunch rushes at the local restaurants. My town has a higher percentage of chains than larger cities, but we do still have several independent stores and restaurants. I did this in a way, because I used to live in Minneapolis but now I live an hour away in town of 8 thousand people after growing up in a ~50K town. I do still work in Minneapolis, though, so I still get many of the advantages of city life. I have done the suburb thing where I lived like ten miles away from work but still had a 45 minute bus/walk commute. The most concerning thing to me after my commute was the fact that there is no public transit that takes me from my home to my job and/or any of my family member's homes. Having two adults and 2+ cars in the household has made this a non-issue, however.
posted by soelo at 1:42 PM on December 23, 2016
In some small towns, church can be a big part of life. If you are not a regular church-goer, you may feel out of place.
The longer drive time to a major airport, let's say from 45 minutes to 4.5 hours, can be an unexpectedly annoying hassle. Even if it's for a few trips a year, it tacks on 9 hours to the travel time, and affects your trip planning.
The upside to having fewer restaurants is that you will learn to cook better.
I've done the round trip of suburbia to semi-rural back to suburbia.
posted by metaseeker at 1:44 PM on December 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
The longer drive time to a major airport, let's say from 45 minutes to 4.5 hours, can be an unexpectedly annoying hassle. Even if it's for a few trips a year, it tacks on 9 hours to the travel time, and affects your trip planning.
The upside to having fewer restaurants is that you will learn to cook better.
I've done the round trip of suburbia to semi-rural back to suburbia.
posted by metaseeker at 1:44 PM on December 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I moved from a big city to a much smaller city.
Pros:
I can afford much nicer housing here
My commute is very reasonable - I've basically gotten back 2 hours a day
I'm much less stressed out
I volunteer and I feel my volunteer work is really necessary and immediately helpful to my community
Because there are fewer people it's somewhat easier to make my voice heard on issues that matter to me.
I feel less miserable that I'm not a thin, beautiful, rich model
I have more opportunities to be involved in things I enjoy - it's not like being someone who loves to sing in a town full of out-of-work professional singers. There's lots of room for active amateurs.
I have more privacy.
I can afford some little luxuries like having someone clean for me now and then.
I have much easier access to green spaces which I believe is good for my overall mental health
Cons:
I moved from a blue state to a red state, and that's been frustrating.
I was depressed for about 2 years as a result of moving.
Exercise is no longer automatically built into my day via my commute, and I have to make it happen myself.
posted by bunderful at 2:13 PM on December 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
Pros:
I can afford much nicer housing here
My commute is very reasonable - I've basically gotten back 2 hours a day
I'm much less stressed out
I volunteer and I feel my volunteer work is really necessary and immediately helpful to my community
Because there are fewer people it's somewhat easier to make my voice heard on issues that matter to me.
I feel less miserable that I'm not a thin, beautiful, rich model
I have more opportunities to be involved in things I enjoy - it's not like being someone who loves to sing in a town full of out-of-work professional singers. There's lots of room for active amateurs.
I have more privacy.
I can afford some little luxuries like having someone clean for me now and then.
I have much easier access to green spaces which I believe is good for my overall mental health
Cons:
I moved from a blue state to a red state, and that's been frustrating.
I was depressed for about 2 years as a result of moving.
Exercise is no longer automatically built into my day via my commute, and I have to make it happen myself.
posted by bunderful at 2:13 PM on December 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I moved from Minneapolis to Missoula Montana and then later Bellingham Washington with a couple short stops in smaller areas in between. Life in Missoula and Bellingham is, for me, as filled with possibilities as Minneapolix was save for big event concerts, sports, or other cultural events of size. Instead though, since both are college towns, there are plenty of smaller events and still a selection of concerts, museums and other art activities around and Missoula, like many smaller towns, had a minor league baseball team if you have an interest in sports. While in Minneapolis going to a museum meant you could see famous artworks from around the world, something you aren't going to find in smaller towns, but in Missoula we became museum patrons and had a little more in depth participation with the art and artists who visited, a trade off that had some perks of it's own.
A college town generally will have some night life and plenty of coffeeshops and books around, both second hand and new, and the area is much more navigable. I haven't had a car since living in Bellingham and haven't missed it, other than for moving. I live in the center of town, which means it's roughly three miles walk to either effective edge of the city, and there is still bus and cab service if walking isn't your choice.
Both Missoula and Bellingham have an advantage of more, well, nature, close at hand, compared to Minneapolis, which had plenty of parks and lakes to be sure, but required more travel to get to less urban environments. Outdoor activities in both towns are probably more central to life for many than cultural events, which isn't my thing entirely, but others find it welcome.
Overall, it really depends on what you enjoy doing, what you're looking for or need in a city, and how you plan on supporting yourselves. Missoula's big, big disadvantage was finding work, and it was almost a fantasy to find work that paid enough to live on comfortably. That was the only reason I left since I found it almost ideal otherwise. Bellingham is better since Washington is a blue state and has a higher minimum wage, which bumps up all other wages, making it easier to live there without too much worry. (Oh, and speaking of worry, both cities too have fine hospitals, something worth looking into since an emergency can be difficult in more rural areas with less access.)
The smaller places I lived in, one in upper Minnesota on a lake and in Death Valley at a company property, were far less appealing. If you absolutely love outdoor activity more than anything else and are mostly self-sufficient, those places might work, but we found ourselves constantly driving back and forth to any even moderately sized city looking for something to do. Believe me, when Pahrump Nevada and Brainerd Minnesota start sounding exciting, you're in a real dead zone of action. I couldn't live in any place like that again, but a moderate sized college town of around 100,000 people or so has most of the things I'm usually looking for, though you have to like being around twenty-somethings since they dominate the towns much of the year.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:21 PM on December 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
A college town generally will have some night life and plenty of coffeeshops and books around, both second hand and new, and the area is much more navigable. I haven't had a car since living in Bellingham and haven't missed it, other than for moving. I live in the center of town, which means it's roughly three miles walk to either effective edge of the city, and there is still bus and cab service if walking isn't your choice.
Both Missoula and Bellingham have an advantage of more, well, nature, close at hand, compared to Minneapolis, which had plenty of parks and lakes to be sure, but required more travel to get to less urban environments. Outdoor activities in both towns are probably more central to life for many than cultural events, which isn't my thing entirely, but others find it welcome.
Overall, it really depends on what you enjoy doing, what you're looking for or need in a city, and how you plan on supporting yourselves. Missoula's big, big disadvantage was finding work, and it was almost a fantasy to find work that paid enough to live on comfortably. That was the only reason I left since I found it almost ideal otherwise. Bellingham is better since Washington is a blue state and has a higher minimum wage, which bumps up all other wages, making it easier to live there without too much worry. (Oh, and speaking of worry, both cities too have fine hospitals, something worth looking into since an emergency can be difficult in more rural areas with less access.)
The smaller places I lived in, one in upper Minnesota on a lake and in Death Valley at a company property, were far less appealing. If you absolutely love outdoor activity more than anything else and are mostly self-sufficient, those places might work, but we found ourselves constantly driving back and forth to any even moderately sized city looking for something to do. Believe me, when Pahrump Nevada and Brainerd Minnesota start sounding exciting, you're in a real dead zone of action. I couldn't live in any place like that again, but a moderate sized college town of around 100,000 people or so has most of the things I'm usually looking for, though you have to like being around twenty-somethings since they dominate the towns much of the year.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:21 PM on December 23, 2016 [1 favorite]
I did this on a rather smaller scale. I grew up in a town of just over 1000 people. Went to college in a college metro area with maybe 150,000 people, and stayed for a couple decades. Three years ago, I moved to a nearby smaller town of about 4000 people.
In the little town where I grew up, I hated the feeling that I was under a microscope and everything I did would be reported on. There were no restaurants except a pizza place and a dive bar I wasn't old enough to enter. There was nothing to do except run around outdoors; no movies, no public library even, and certainly no cultural events. The church my family belonged to, had almost no other kids, so they didn't provide much of a social outlet. It was a terrible place to be a teen or young adult. You never met anyone you hadn't known your whole life. There's a folksinger I love, Jo Carol Pierce, who said, "For a truly exciting life, you must have strangers!" and I felt this, strongly.
My college town was fabulous. All the cultural things came through, all the movies came through, we had every kind of ethnic restaurant, we had a science fiction club that put on a convention. Farmer's market, classic films on the big screen, Take Back The Night, concerts, etc. I enjoyed being there.
But I am really liking my new smallish town. I always wanted to live in a walkable neighborhood but could never afford to in my midsize city. And even if I could, I couldn't be that central to all the things I liked, because the midsize city is both crowded AND spread out. And while it was small enough that I regularly met people I knew, it was also full of strangers that just made things crowded. There was this contradiction of wishing things were close enough to walk to, and wishing I could find a parking place.
In my new town, I live in a walkable neighborhood. I can walk to a great public library. I can walk to several restaurants but none are ethnic unless you count the Albanians who run the local diner, which I don't because it's just generic diner food. I am acquainted with more of my neighbors than I ever was in my midsize city. I could never have lived by a trail or a library or the farmers market or this close to so many restaurants in my midsize city, because I am not a millionaire. I am old enough now that I just don't care if people talk about me and I'm married so I don't need to meet romantic partners. But I have had to eat at home more, because how many hamburgers can one person eat, and since they're not fast food (we don't have much fast food here) they're not cheap either.
I can still drive to my midsized city and it's not even very far. But I am lazy, and I am enjoying my small town life, so mostly I don't. Life is pretty good.
Anyone got a good recipe for tawook?
posted by elizilla at 4:28 PM on December 23, 2016
In the little town where I grew up, I hated the feeling that I was under a microscope and everything I did would be reported on. There were no restaurants except a pizza place and a dive bar I wasn't old enough to enter. There was nothing to do except run around outdoors; no movies, no public library even, and certainly no cultural events. The church my family belonged to, had almost no other kids, so they didn't provide much of a social outlet. It was a terrible place to be a teen or young adult. You never met anyone you hadn't known your whole life. There's a folksinger I love, Jo Carol Pierce, who said, "For a truly exciting life, you must have strangers!" and I felt this, strongly.
My college town was fabulous. All the cultural things came through, all the movies came through, we had every kind of ethnic restaurant, we had a science fiction club that put on a convention. Farmer's market, classic films on the big screen, Take Back The Night, concerts, etc. I enjoyed being there.
But I am really liking my new smallish town. I always wanted to live in a walkable neighborhood but could never afford to in my midsize city. And even if I could, I couldn't be that central to all the things I liked, because the midsize city is both crowded AND spread out. And while it was small enough that I regularly met people I knew, it was also full of strangers that just made things crowded. There was this contradiction of wishing things were close enough to walk to, and wishing I could find a parking place.
In my new town, I live in a walkable neighborhood. I can walk to a great public library. I can walk to several restaurants but none are ethnic unless you count the Albanians who run the local diner, which I don't because it's just generic diner food. I am acquainted with more of my neighbors than I ever was in my midsize city. I could never have lived by a trail or a library or the farmers market or this close to so many restaurants in my midsize city, because I am not a millionaire. I am old enough now that I just don't care if people talk about me and I'm married so I don't need to meet romantic partners. But I have had to eat at home more, because how many hamburgers can one person eat, and since they're not fast food (we don't have much fast food here) they're not cheap either.
I can still drive to my midsized city and it's not even very far. But I am lazy, and I am enjoying my small town life, so mostly I don't. Life is pretty good.
Anyone got a good recipe for tawook?
posted by elizilla at 4:28 PM on December 23, 2016
Grew up in a smallish town (about 30k) and have lived in Chicago and Seattle. We moved back to my small hometown for a couple years and just moved back to a city again. Having an active social network can alleviate a lot of boredom; you guys grill out or have game night with friends at home instead of heading out to the Ethiopian restaurant. But keep in mind what you think will happen with your social network may be different than reality.
Also, employment opportunities can be more limited, so depending on what your situation is, you may still have a long commute. My husband and I worked in different towns so we each had a long commute. My commute back in small town covered more distance, but took about as long as in the city.
Traffic generally was less stressful, but by the end I was starting to get just as irritated by the traffic, both during my commute and around town (For some reason a large proportion of people back home went 45 mph regardless of the actual posted speed limit. So people are speeding or driving way under the limit all the time. MADDENING!)
I'm very happy to be back in a city. I think for me even if employment opportunities were better and closer together, my hometown was just a tad too small. There were a couple of good places to eat and drink, but most were at least a 20-30 minute drive away. That's doable, but not our preference.
If opportunities were present, moving to my husband's larger hometown (about twice as large as mine, in a larger metro area) would be a no brainier. I personally prefer living in a city, but it has enough to do and with cheaper housing that it'd balance out in the end for me if I could have a reasonable commute.
(I'll memail (sp?) you a link for a decent tawook recipe, elizilla, as soon as I can find it. This is actually the thing I miss most about my small town, we had a good Lebanese place.)
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:00 PM on December 23, 2016
Also, employment opportunities can be more limited, so depending on what your situation is, you may still have a long commute. My husband and I worked in different towns so we each had a long commute. My commute back in small town covered more distance, but took about as long as in the city.
Traffic generally was less stressful, but by the end I was starting to get just as irritated by the traffic, both during my commute and around town (For some reason a large proportion of people back home went 45 mph regardless of the actual posted speed limit. So people are speeding or driving way under the limit all the time. MADDENING!)
I'm very happy to be back in a city. I think for me even if employment opportunities were better and closer together, my hometown was just a tad too small. There were a couple of good places to eat and drink, but most were at least a 20-30 minute drive away. That's doable, but not our preference.
If opportunities were present, moving to my husband's larger hometown (about twice as large as mine, in a larger metro area) would be a no brainier. I personally prefer living in a city, but it has enough to do and with cheaper housing that it'd balance out in the end for me if I could have a reasonable commute.
(I'll memail (sp?) you a link for a decent tawook recipe, elizilla, as soon as I can find it. This is actually the thing I miss most about my small town, we had a good Lebanese place.)
posted by ghost phoneme at 5:00 PM on December 23, 2016
Best answer: I moved from NYC (and had also lived in 3 other major cities over the years) to a midwest college town -- actually it is a small city, but you'll notice that small cities dominated by large universities are called college towns :). I was afraid to make this move, mostly afraid that there would not be enough diversity and that my children would not grow up with a generous sense of human difference. Boy, was I wrong. I love it here, and think it's the best move I've ever made. Although the population is definitely less diverse racially, the irony is that my kids have a much broader range of human experience -- they do have friends of different races, yes, but also of different economic and social class, and frequently country of origin -- than the children of my friends in NYC, where the kids I know are sent to expensive private schools, and socialize with other privileged people, and in much more constricted ways.
And as a not-rich person, I would rather be able to easily afford to go to the theater and to concerts and out to eat here, so much more often than I could in NYC -- even if it's not Broadway or Lincoln Center or an amazing new restaurant where you have to get a reservation a month in advance, it's something that middle class people can afford to do frequently, and they do. (So what if you know half the kids in the corps of The Nutcracker..at least it isn't a week's rent.)
Also, and this was hard to understand until I did it: not spending so much time and energy on small chores frees me up a LOT to think, socialize, work on my own projects, walk my dog, garden, etc. For example, I recently had to get my vacuum cleaner repaired. I put it in the car, drove ten minutes to the mom and pop shop where I bought it, they fixed it in ten minutes for free while I chatted with the guy, and I came home. In NYC I would have spent half the day lugging it somewhere on the train and come home exhausted, and then would have had to go back and get it again the next week... Of course if you're rich in a big city you have someone else to that level of life maintenance for you, but if not... it's really life changing not to have the small necessities of life be so hard, like standing in a long line at a grocery store at 6 pm or whatever -- now when I am back home in NYC I have little tolerance for how these chores dominate so much of life.
Plus: I love the people here. It's ironic. My old gang in NYC -- although they are amazing and accomplished -- seem kind of provincial to me now because they assume a natural superiority about their town, and don't have curiosity about life in "flyover country." The people here in flyover country, even those who have never lived elsewhere, don't generally have that attitude -- the cliche of the small town person who scorns life everywhere else has not been my experience here. So I see them as sophisticated and mentally cosmopolitan. There are a lot of creative, artistic and spiritual people here who don't make a lot of money but live in a way that prioritizes community and art. It's not possible to live that way and live like a grown up on the cheap in big cities anymore.
Plus the city expats I meet here who are part of my own profession are numerous, they have an urban sensibility and also are fun and curious and creative and flexible about life.
So... I am very, very happy to live in my adopted small university city. And I never could have believed I would say this, ten years ago on the UWS.
posted by flourpot at 5:17 PM on December 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
And as a not-rich person, I would rather be able to easily afford to go to the theater and to concerts and out to eat here, so much more often than I could in NYC -- even if it's not Broadway or Lincoln Center or an amazing new restaurant where you have to get a reservation a month in advance, it's something that middle class people can afford to do frequently, and they do. (So what if you know half the kids in the corps of The Nutcracker..at least it isn't a week's rent.)
Also, and this was hard to understand until I did it: not spending so much time and energy on small chores frees me up a LOT to think, socialize, work on my own projects, walk my dog, garden, etc. For example, I recently had to get my vacuum cleaner repaired. I put it in the car, drove ten minutes to the mom and pop shop where I bought it, they fixed it in ten minutes for free while I chatted with the guy, and I came home. In NYC I would have spent half the day lugging it somewhere on the train and come home exhausted, and then would have had to go back and get it again the next week... Of course if you're rich in a big city you have someone else to that level of life maintenance for you, but if not... it's really life changing not to have the small necessities of life be so hard, like standing in a long line at a grocery store at 6 pm or whatever -- now when I am back home in NYC I have little tolerance for how these chores dominate so much of life.
Plus: I love the people here. It's ironic. My old gang in NYC -- although they are amazing and accomplished -- seem kind of provincial to me now because they assume a natural superiority about their town, and don't have curiosity about life in "flyover country." The people here in flyover country, even those who have never lived elsewhere, don't generally have that attitude -- the cliche of the small town person who scorns life everywhere else has not been my experience here. So I see them as sophisticated and mentally cosmopolitan. There are a lot of creative, artistic and spiritual people here who don't make a lot of money but live in a way that prioritizes community and art. It's not possible to live that way and live like a grown up on the cheap in big cities anymore.
Plus the city expats I meet here who are part of my own profession are numerous, they have an urban sensibility and also are fun and curious and creative and flexible about life.
So... I am very, very happy to live in my adopted small university city. And I never could have believed I would say this, ten years ago on the UWS.
posted by flourpot at 5:17 PM on December 23, 2016 [16 favorites]
Response by poster: These are all great and interesting. Thanks!
posted by Smearcase at 5:38 PM on December 23, 2016
posted by Smearcase at 5:38 PM on December 23, 2016
I'll echo exactly what flourpot said. I moved from NYC to Champaign-Urbana Illinois years ago and adored it. Having the university brings a lot of the interesting artists and musicians that NYC does, but you don't have to hop on tickets the minute they go on sale or stake out a spot in a park hours in advance. Pros: you can have "your" bar or restaurant where literally everyone knows your name. Unless youre the foodiest of foodies you'll probably be happy with the restaurant scene. So many more low key ways to hang out. If you like beers on someone's porch over clubbing, you'll be in heaven. Cons: people are, to some extent, always moving away. One major employer can make job searching difficult.
posted by MsMolly at 6:19 PM on December 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by MsMolly at 6:19 PM on December 23, 2016 [5 favorites]
Peoria here, about 120,000. In addition to things mentioned above (housing prices, safety, walkability, little traffic when I do drive), three big things I've noticed on the cultural front as a native of Chicago:
1) If you like to MAKE culture rather than just watch it, small cities are the bomb. We have a lawyer friend who's concertmaster of the local symphony. We have a friend who's big on indie music who organized a whole concert series. Our friend's kid auditioned into the (paying) municipal band at 17. Whatever your art of choice, you can DO it in a small city rather than just watch it. (And you can always head up to Chicago for the world class stuff whenever you want.)
2) Whatever the big event is that weekend, half the town will go. Near big cities the Ren Faire might be just Ren faire nerds; in Peoria you will see literally everyone you know at the Ren faire having a great time and nobody will think it's weird that it's your hobby, they'll be excited they know someone in the know. Then the next weekend it's a big outdoor concert, or Shakespeare in the Park, or beerfest, or punkin chunking, or Art on the Waterfront, and maybe these are not your thing but half your friends are going and it's the major thing going on that weekend, so you go, have fun, and see everyone else you know. Culture isn't as siloed by narrow interest and it functions to bring people together.
3) Smaller cities often have a thriving YOUNG culture scene ... We get a lot of restauranteurs who come to Peoria to run a place cheap for five years and learning the ropes before taking it to Chicago. Lot of artists who show in Chicago have studios in Peoria ... Cheaper. Actors doing summer stock. Up and coming bands. Up and coming comedians.
Oh and I guess 4) when my 4-year-old got into space, we got a museum membership for the family for $95 and because the museum is ten minutes away and has easy parking, we went to the planetarium TWICE A WEEK. Yes, Chicago's Adler is bigger and better, but even if I could afford it I could never physically make it to Adler twice a week. We live similarly close to our zoo, children's museum, great hiking, hockey rink, symphony hall, community theater ... We're pretty much ten minutes for everything, prices are cheap, parking abundant, and memberships are reasonable so you can go literally all the time.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:02 PM on December 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
1) If you like to MAKE culture rather than just watch it, small cities are the bomb. We have a lawyer friend who's concertmaster of the local symphony. We have a friend who's big on indie music who organized a whole concert series. Our friend's kid auditioned into the (paying) municipal band at 17. Whatever your art of choice, you can DO it in a small city rather than just watch it. (And you can always head up to Chicago for the world class stuff whenever you want.)
2) Whatever the big event is that weekend, half the town will go. Near big cities the Ren Faire might be just Ren faire nerds; in Peoria you will see literally everyone you know at the Ren faire having a great time and nobody will think it's weird that it's your hobby, they'll be excited they know someone in the know. Then the next weekend it's a big outdoor concert, or Shakespeare in the Park, or beerfest, or punkin chunking, or Art on the Waterfront, and maybe these are not your thing but half your friends are going and it's the major thing going on that weekend, so you go, have fun, and see everyone else you know. Culture isn't as siloed by narrow interest and it functions to bring people together.
3) Smaller cities often have a thriving YOUNG culture scene ... We get a lot of restauranteurs who come to Peoria to run a place cheap for five years and learning the ropes before taking it to Chicago. Lot of artists who show in Chicago have studios in Peoria ... Cheaper. Actors doing summer stock. Up and coming bands. Up and coming comedians.
Oh and I guess 4) when my 4-year-old got into space, we got a museum membership for the family for $95 and because the museum is ten minutes away and has easy parking, we went to the planetarium TWICE A WEEK. Yes, Chicago's Adler is bigger and better, but even if I could afford it I could never physically make it to Adler twice a week. We live similarly close to our zoo, children's museum, great hiking, hockey rink, symphony hall, community theater ... We're pretty much ten minutes for everything, prices are cheap, parking abundant, and memberships are reasonable so you can go literally all the time.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:02 PM on December 23, 2016 [8 favorites]
I grew up in a town of about 2000 people, moved to Seattle after college and then moved back east to Vermont and a town of 150 and finally settled in a town of 4500 where I have been living for about eight years (and seven more years in the town next door). It suits me. But part of that may be that it seems like normal. Part of it is also I am temperamentally suited for it. A few upsides and downsides
Upsides
- I don't lock anything. Crime is almost non-existent here
- I have friends in town but I also know my neighbors. If I am feeling dissociated from people I can walk outside and see people who know me and I know them and we can chitchat. And all my friend are good people but imperfect (like myself) so I have no sense of a "cool kids" thing going on, social climbers, etc, town's too small
- town is walkable - I can get to a movie theater, post office, hospital, restaurants, library, theater, coffee shop, supermarket, all within about half a mile.
- I am an elected official (justice of the peace which means I am also a notary and serve on a few boards in town). I like participatory democracy and that is a shared value of people here.
- traffic and parking are non-issues, I live a few miles from a major highway and can get to bigger cities in not too much time
- there is a town newspaper and it's great to have a local source for information
- most costs are low. You can buy a house for very low six figures or even high fives. Taxes aren't cheap but they get you a lot of things (sidewalks, road plowing, free recycling). There are a few great thrift stores where I buy most of my clothes and stuff there costs like ... a dollar?
If you like to MAKE culture rather than just watch it, small cities are the bomb
We often talk about how a lot of Vermont is "make your own fun" If you are up for it, great. If you'd rather go to things already up and running, it's less great.
Downsides
- I have to drive to another state if I want Indian food and there's some lack of diversity. We have class diversity and a lot of GLBTQ diversity and tolerance. There is not a lot of racial diversity which is its own issue but also permeates the culture in a lot of ways that are challenging. A lot of people just ... haven't thought much about racial issues which can be odd if you're someone who is very conscious about this stuff. 1/3 of my neighbors voted for Trump.
- rural poverty is a big deal and things that come along with that (low education levels, high teen pregnancy rates, lots of people with drug issues) which are all community challenges.
- if I want to go to a REALLY big city (Burlington is 40K and its our biggest one) I'm in the car for a while. And I need a car to get everywhere, there's very little public transpo in my town.
And this may or may not be a downside but ... the pace here is slow. I get notified about my board meetings by postal mail. I can count my neighbors on Twitter on one hand. People keep the same jobs and the same houses for a long time. If you like things how they are (and I mostly do) this is great. If you don't--there are always stories about people "from away" who come here and want to shake things up and usually don't have a lot of success--you may find it stultifying.
For me, my town is right-sized and Seattle was always under construction, people didn't know their neighbors, everyone was obsessed with getting rich and no one read books. I like where I am now better.
posted by jessamyn at 9:07 AM on December 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Upsides
- I don't lock anything. Crime is almost non-existent here
- I have friends in town but I also know my neighbors. If I am feeling dissociated from people I can walk outside and see people who know me and I know them and we can chitchat. And all my friend are good people but imperfect (like myself) so I have no sense of a "cool kids" thing going on, social climbers, etc, town's too small
- town is walkable - I can get to a movie theater, post office, hospital, restaurants, library, theater, coffee shop, supermarket, all within about half a mile.
- I am an elected official (justice of the peace which means I am also a notary and serve on a few boards in town). I like participatory democracy and that is a shared value of people here.
- traffic and parking are non-issues, I live a few miles from a major highway and can get to bigger cities in not too much time
- there is a town newspaper and it's great to have a local source for information
- most costs are low. You can buy a house for very low six figures or even high fives. Taxes aren't cheap but they get you a lot of things (sidewalks, road plowing, free recycling). There are a few great thrift stores where I buy most of my clothes and stuff there costs like ... a dollar?
If you like to MAKE culture rather than just watch it, small cities are the bomb
We often talk about how a lot of Vermont is "make your own fun" If you are up for it, great. If you'd rather go to things already up and running, it's less great.
Downsides
- I have to drive to another state if I want Indian food and there's some lack of diversity. We have class diversity and a lot of GLBTQ diversity and tolerance. There is not a lot of racial diversity which is its own issue but also permeates the culture in a lot of ways that are challenging. A lot of people just ... haven't thought much about racial issues which can be odd if you're someone who is very conscious about this stuff. 1/3 of my neighbors voted for Trump.
- rural poverty is a big deal and things that come along with that (low education levels, high teen pregnancy rates, lots of people with drug issues) which are all community challenges.
- if I want to go to a REALLY big city (Burlington is 40K and its our biggest one) I'm in the car for a while. And I need a car to get everywhere, there's very little public transpo in my town.
And this may or may not be a downside but ... the pace here is slow. I get notified about my board meetings by postal mail. I can count my neighbors on Twitter on one hand. People keep the same jobs and the same houses for a long time. If you like things how they are (and I mostly do) this is great. If you don't--there are always stories about people "from away" who come here and want to shake things up and usually don't have a lot of success--you may find it stultifying.
For me, my town is right-sized and Seattle was always under construction, people didn't know their neighbors, everyone was obsessed with getting rich and no one read books. I like where I am now better.
posted by jessamyn at 9:07 AM on December 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
"Are you bored?" Nope. I was a big time city girl when I was younger, but as I have grown older I no longer need dozen Ethiopian restaurants because my happiness comes less from external sensory stimulation and more from feeling whole in general. I needed all that to entertain and distract myself from being in the moment, being with myself, etc. Now when I go back and see friends in the city and hear them talk endlessly about the external stimulatoon of the newest chef, restaurant, gallery it just doesn't have much value for me. Been there. Done that. Yawn. Don't need to keep doing it.
That being said, its pretty easy to find great things in small town is you find the right small town. There are huge differences in small towns. Mine has wineries, serious nature, a farmers market.
(And all small towns tend to have crazy old school bars, which are always entertaining and fabulous.)
posted by Vaike at 1:12 PM on December 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
That being said, its pretty easy to find great things in small town is you find the right small town. There are huge differences in small towns. Mine has wineries, serious nature, a farmers market.
(And all small towns tend to have crazy old school bars, which are always entertaining and fabulous.)
posted by Vaike at 1:12 PM on December 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
> as I have grown older I no longer need dozen Ethiopian restaurants because my happiness comes less from external sensory stimulation and more from feeling whole in general.
Quoted for truth! That's exactly how I feel...though I can still eat with the best of 'em.
posted by 8603 at 9:49 PM on December 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
Quoted for truth! That's exactly how I feel...though I can still eat with the best of 'em.
posted by 8603 at 9:49 PM on December 24, 2016 [1 favorite]
I grew up in Columbus, GA. I graduated high school with some of the same people that I went to kindergarten with. Then I was a military wife for a lot of years and I have lived a bunch of different places.
One thing I think you are missing is that no two big cities are alike and no two small towns are alike either. I lived in Fairfield, CA for a few years and then returned to my hometown of Columbus, GA during my divorce. Fairfield was about 100k people and Columbus was about 160k people. But Fairfield was in The San Francisco Bay Area and Columbus is kind of middle of nowhere Deep South. Fairfield had better public transit, more ethnic diversity, more 24 hour grocery stores, more sophisticated eateries, better access to world class medical care, and on and on.
The West Coast generally also has more Asian influence, which was incredibly obvious to me when I first moved to the West Coast, and different areas have different quirks in terms of having, say, some concentration of a particular ethnicity or national origin of immigrants due to historic events.
I have always wanted to see myself as the sort of person thriving in a big city and I did live in downtown San Diego for six months. But this is sort of a deluded self image. I don't really love living in a big city. I love having access to one and I downright need an intellectual life.
The big city is a place where you tend to have the resources to support big universities and other intellectual stuff. But you can also find outposts of national labs or big universities in out of the way spots because of unique natural resources. Port Aransas, TX has an outpost from a big university in Corpus Christi because of the unique marine resources there. Sequim, WA has an outpost of the national lab in Richland, WA for the same reason: unique marine resources that you can study.
I don't actually deal well with the pollution and crowds and high cost of living in a big city. I always want to imagine myself as a sophisticated, cosmopolitan big city type, but it ends up not really working for me.
What works for me is to live on the fringe of a big city, where I can access it, or to live in a small town near a big city where I can access it or to live in a college town or place with some kind of federal outpost or big university outpost where you get that injection of an intellectual life without having to put up with insane crowds to have it.
Manhattan, KS was The Bomb. It has the best little zoo run by the big university in town and it has used book stores and other aspects of intellectual life not normally found in small towns while still having the benefits of a smaller town. The public schools rocked and the one my oldest son attended was award winning. His school experiences were all downhill from there until I finally said "fuck this noise" and pulled my kids out to homeschool.
I like living someplace where stores have extended hours, even if they aren't open 24 hours. I need access to good food, and that can depend in part on what the regional farming and the like look like. When we lived in Richland, WA, my kids got spoiled by the fresh fruits and veggies available year round there. They stopped being willing to eat frozen veggies, like we had done historically. This was kind of a cool thing -- my snobby kids wanted good veggies and were willing to shuck fresh corn to get it. My oldest was eight years old and took over shucking corn so he would never again have to eat frozen corn on the cob because "It is extra work for me" was my only objection to doing fresh corn on the cob regularly and the quality difference mattered enough to him and shucking isn't hard (he actually thought it was fun).
You might try making a list of things that actually matter to you and then doing some online research. Due to proximity to larger cities, tourism, federal facilities or unique natural resources attracting specific kinds of research or industry, some small towns have some of the qualities of a bigger city that actually matter to me. Those places are sometimes a "best of both worlds" scenario.
posted by Michele in California at 10:56 AM on December 25, 2016
One thing I think you are missing is that no two big cities are alike and no two small towns are alike either. I lived in Fairfield, CA for a few years and then returned to my hometown of Columbus, GA during my divorce. Fairfield was about 100k people and Columbus was about 160k people. But Fairfield was in The San Francisco Bay Area and Columbus is kind of middle of nowhere Deep South. Fairfield had better public transit, more ethnic diversity, more 24 hour grocery stores, more sophisticated eateries, better access to world class medical care, and on and on.
The West Coast generally also has more Asian influence, which was incredibly obvious to me when I first moved to the West Coast, and different areas have different quirks in terms of having, say, some concentration of a particular ethnicity or national origin of immigrants due to historic events.
I have always wanted to see myself as the sort of person thriving in a big city and I did live in downtown San Diego for six months. But this is sort of a deluded self image. I don't really love living in a big city. I love having access to one and I downright need an intellectual life.
The big city is a place where you tend to have the resources to support big universities and other intellectual stuff. But you can also find outposts of national labs or big universities in out of the way spots because of unique natural resources. Port Aransas, TX has an outpost from a big university in Corpus Christi because of the unique marine resources there. Sequim, WA has an outpost of the national lab in Richland, WA for the same reason: unique marine resources that you can study.
I don't actually deal well with the pollution and crowds and high cost of living in a big city. I always want to imagine myself as a sophisticated, cosmopolitan big city type, but it ends up not really working for me.
What works for me is to live on the fringe of a big city, where I can access it, or to live in a small town near a big city where I can access it or to live in a college town or place with some kind of federal outpost or big university outpost where you get that injection of an intellectual life without having to put up with insane crowds to have it.
Manhattan, KS was The Bomb. It has the best little zoo run by the big university in town and it has used book stores and other aspects of intellectual life not normally found in small towns while still having the benefits of a smaller town. The public schools rocked and the one my oldest son attended was award winning. His school experiences were all downhill from there until I finally said "fuck this noise" and pulled my kids out to homeschool.
I like living someplace where stores have extended hours, even if they aren't open 24 hours. I need access to good food, and that can depend in part on what the regional farming and the like look like. When we lived in Richland, WA, my kids got spoiled by the fresh fruits and veggies available year round there. They stopped being willing to eat frozen veggies, like we had done historically. This was kind of a cool thing -- my snobby kids wanted good veggies and were willing to shuck fresh corn to get it. My oldest was eight years old and took over shucking corn so he would never again have to eat frozen corn on the cob because "It is extra work for me" was my only objection to doing fresh corn on the cob regularly and the quality difference mattered enough to him and shucking isn't hard (he actually thought it was fun).
You might try making a list of things that actually matter to you and then doing some online research. Due to proximity to larger cities, tourism, federal facilities or unique natural resources attracting specific kinds of research or industry, some small towns have some of the qualities of a bigger city that actually matter to me. Those places are sometimes a "best of both worlds" scenario.
posted by Michele in California at 10:56 AM on December 25, 2016
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What's good about it:
- I don't have the feeling that everybody else is richer and more interesting and cooler than I am.
- I can afford to rent an apartment. (That's warm enough in the winter! Where the hot water is consistently hot!)
- I can mostly avoid the sensory overload stuff that pretty frequently overwhelmed me in NYC
- It's a small enough town that I run into people I know on the bus and in Target and at the grocery store, which is kind of nice?
What's bad about it:
- The lack of good restaurants. I'm a vegetarian so it's harder for me than it would be for most people, I think, but even so I really feel the lack of a great Thai or Indian or Ethiopian place.
- There is only one movie theater, and nowhere that has independent movies.
- There's a certain amount of insularity, I think? Like the default is to have very little experience outside of Iowa.
I think I would be less bored and isolated if I had a car, though.
On balance I'm really glad that I moved, and honestly I had to move, but if I had my choice of anywhere it would definitely be a more medium-to-large-sized city.
posted by Jeanne at 1:13 PM on December 23, 2016 [3 favorites]