Does complaints for sexual harrassment result in victim getting fired?

December 4, 2016 3:52 PM

So I am a guy getting harassed by another guy at work, and by the way, this is a "professional work environment". A couple months ago this guy comes up to me and starts making comments like "you are looking good today" and just stares at me for a prolonged period of time with a smirk. And he has said other things too that make me uncomfortable. Now, I do what I can to avoid him but he is trying to gain rapport with me, but I just ignore him; so now it has been 3 months. I was initially going to talk with my boss (the CFO) and let him know what this guy has been doing. But, I have asked this question before on this website, and someone pointed out that I could get fired for making the complaint even though I am the victim. And then I did more research on the internet where victims of sexual harassment can actually get fired for making a complaint. I am just wondering how often does this happen, and if anyone has ever seen it happen before?
posted by pieceofcake to Work & Money (18 answers total)

In the US, firing somebody making a complaint would be considered retaliation, and could get the business into some trouble. If you have an HR department, they're probably more sensitive to that, so you could try going to them directly.
posted by willnot at 4:02 PM on December 4, 2016

In my experience, what's more common is the company/boss making the complainant's life exceedingly difficult until they decide to quit on their own.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 4:14 PM on December 4, 2016 [18 favorites]

You can always hedge your bets by starting the job hunt now.

If you haven't already, and you feel safe doing so, I would confront the harasser directly. Be firm, clear and polite: "This [behavior] isn't appropriate and it makes me uncomfortable. Don't say [that thing] to me anymore or act in [this way]." This gives you leverage if the harasser continues. Document everything.

I would also talk to your boss ASAP. Come prepared to the meeting with a full history of your harassment. This shows how serious the matter is — and that you're prepared to escalate. So if your boss is tempted to blow you off, bad move, it will become a real pain in the ass for him.
posted by fritillary at 4:27 PM on December 4, 2016

If you're in the US, it is not legal to retaliate against employees for making good faith claims of harassment. The definition of retaliation covers a lot of things, including firing and constructive dismissal (aka, making life difficult until the complainant quits on their own). You might want to read up about the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission, which is the federal agency that sets the rules about this. If you're not in the US, look for whatever government body sets the rules in this area and find out more before you act.
- EEOC on sexual harassment
- EEOC on harassment
- EEOC on retaliation
- EEOC guidance on filing a charge (if you feel your employer is violating the rules)

A good or even halfway competent employer will take complaints of harassment seriously, and they will not fire someone for complaining about harassment in good faith. That said, not all employers know the rules or follow them. Here are some things that you can look for to get a better sense of what your employer might do in a situation like this.

The following are good signs -- they don't guarantee that your complaint will be handled well, but they are indications that your employer is at least aware of the legal requirements. Good signs:
- Do they have a written policy on harassment (perhaps in the employee handbook)? Does it include instructions on how to report harassment and a description of what steps the company will take after a report is made?
- Do they have a training on harassment, or include anything about harassment in their new hire orientation or first day paperwork?
- Do they have an HR department? Does their HR staff seem generally professional and qualified?

On the other hand, if the following are true at your workplace, then you may be taking more of a risk in making a complaint -- these are indications that your employer may not be aware of the law, or may not care to follow it. If you see these signs, you may want to get your ducks lined up before complaining -- for instance, make sure you have an emergency fund in the bank in case you are fired, be prepared to file an EEOC claim, and/or consult an employment lawyer about your best options ahead of time. Bad signs:
- Are discriminatory and/or harassing comments and behaviors the norm in your workplace?
- Do managers and company leaders behave in discriminatory or harassing ways, or witness and condone such behavior?
- Is there no HR department, non-harassment policy, employee handbook, or written policies of any kind? The more of these are true, the worse the situation is likely to be.

One last thing: in the last question you asked about this situation, the vast majority of people answering recommended that you ask the harasser to stop and document the incidents carefully. Have you done that yet? It will very much help your chances of resolving this successfully, especially if you believe your employer might ignore the law.
posted by ourobouros at 4:34 PM on December 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: I am about fed up with this guy approaching me right now to re-gain rapport with me. So I am going to tell him to stop bothering me. But I thought it would make me feel more comfortable if I first go and make my boss aware of what is going on. I get along with my boss very well (he is the CFO). After I discuss this matter with him, I can feel assured that whatever action I take against this guy will be backed up. Is this a good strategy? I am first going to let the CFO what is going on and then let him know what action I plan to take.
posted by pieceofcake at 4:41 PM on December 4, 2016

One of the first questions a good HR department will ask in this kind of situation is 'have you asked them to stop?' If you haven't, their first step will be to suggest you do so.

Once you have asked the harasser to stop, and they haven't, then you have a much stronger complaint to take to HR in this type of situation.
posted by Ashlyth at 4:52 PM on December 4, 2016 [9 favorites]

The trivial amount of sexual harassment training I've had clearly states that until you say in no unclear terms that the behavior is unwanted, it's not harassment. I would recommend doing this first, because that's probably going to be the first question your boss will ask and possibly the first thing your boss will recommend.

You may get along very well with your boss; but your boss, if competent, can't play favorites and has only heard one side of the story. Going to your boss without trying to address the problem makes you look rather passive and is probably bad for your career long-term.
posted by meowzilla at 4:56 PM on December 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yes, people do get fired for reporting sexual harassment. It is illegal, but it happens. If you want to stay in your job and avoid having to sue the company, I think it's important that you think strategically/politically while you deal with this.

You're likely to get fired if you are seen as a "troublemaker" or a source of "drama." Running this to your boss or to HR without attempting to address is personally first is likely to be seen as troublemaking behavior.

I am about fed up with this guy approaching me right now to re-gain rapport with me. So I am going to tell him to stop bothering me.

A little over a month ago, you said that you were going to tell this guy to stop bothering you. If you have not told him to stop, face-to-face, at least one time, I would start there the next time it happens.

The time after that, I would start a written log, and speak to your boss, face-to-face about next steps. I would present your boss with a draft email that says "Dear [Creeper], I asked you on [date] to stop making comments about my appearance. Today, [date], you said '[creepy thing].' Please do not comment on my appearance again." Unless your boss has a good story to tell you about why you shouldn't send that email, send it.

The time after that I would reply to your initial email, and copy your boss (or HR, if that's what your boss recommends) and say: "Dear [Creeper], I am writing to ask you again to stop commenting on my appearance. today you said '[another creeepy thing].' If these comments continue, I will escalate this situation to HR"

The time after that forward the second email to HR, with details of the latest incident, and ask how best to proceed. If, by this point, HR isn't taking an active role, something is wrong in your organization and you will want to be looking for a new job and legal advice.
posted by sparklemotion at 5:01 PM on December 4, 2016 [5 favorites]

I just read your previous question and yes, everyone is absolutely right that 1. Ultimately, HR is there to protect the company and 2. The first thing you will be asked is if you have said anything to this person, and if you have not, you will be instructed to do so. That said, I would suggest making HR and your boss aware what is happening and inform them both that you are going to instruct him to stop and start documenting any additional incidents. The heads up can't hurt, and they may have some advice/support in place for you communicating your objections and how to handle anything that happens afterwards.

I was sexually harassed at the wee age of 19 in a retail environment, but the company did handle the situation appropriately. My harasser ended up fired due to his own actions, while I stayed there for a few more years and left of my own accord on good terms. Unless you have some reason to believe he is significantly more valued than you as an employee, I don't think you need to worry about retribution or termination, if you handle this properly and do your job well. Good luck!
posted by katemcd at 5:02 PM on December 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Well, I haven't yet told this guy to stop, that's because I haven't been giving him the opportunity to do so by avoiding him, and ignoring him when he speaks to me. Yet, he still persists.
posted by pieceofcake at 5:14 PM on December 4, 2016

Response by poster: Also, my concern is that the more time passes before I actually do tell him to stop making those comments, the more irrelevant the past incidents will become, because they are getting so far into the past. What if I finally tell this guy to stop when the situation finally arises again, and it's been a year after he has made those comments?
posted by pieceofcake at 5:24 PM on December 4, 2016

Based on reading this and your last question, it sounds like you might be going round and round on this in your mind. I'd suggest rereading the answers in your previous question -- folks gave you a lot of good advice. Perhaps it will help if I summarize it into specific steps. Here's what to do:

1. Document the incidents as specifically as you can. Make yourself a spreadsheet. For each incident (ideally right after it happens, while your memory is fresh), write down the date and time, as well as a description of what happened, where it happened, and who else was there.
2. Find out what your company's policy is on reporting harassment -- look it up in your handbook. If you can't find a policy, then assume you'll be going to your boss and/or HR.
2a. OPTIONAL STEP: If, based on your best judgement, you think your specific company is likely to ignore your complaint or retaliate against you, then get prepared -- consult an employment lawyer, make sure you have enough money saved to cover you for a period of unemployment, research the EEOC claim process, etc.
3. Tell your coworker to stop. If you're really nervous about doing it person, you can do it by email. It's best if you are specific, brief, factual, and non-emotional, for instance: "Several times, I have noticed you staring at me and making comments about my appearance. Please stop doing so. You are making me uncomfortable."
4. If the harassment continues, then when you are ready, talk to your boss or HR. Bring your spreadsheet. Be as factual as possible when you describe what has happened. Make sure you are specific -- don't say, "This guy is annoying me," but rather, "I believe I'm being sexually harassed by [co-worker name]. Here is a spreadsheet describing the specific incidents that made me uncomfortable. At first I attempted to ignore and then avoid him, but his behavior continued. I directly asked him to stop on [date] and he did not do so -- these specific incidents happened after I had asked him to stop. I'd like you to take action to stop his harassment." Again, this is something you can do by email if you feel too uncomfortable to do in person (though you should expect to have an in-person meeting about it after your email is received).

If you really want to, then you can go to your boss before asking your co-worker to stop. You still need to do steps 1 and 2 before you talk to your boss, and use a script similar to what's in step 4. You might add something like: "At first I ignored him and then I avoided him, in hopes that the harassment would stop. Unfortunately, it hasn't. I am planning to directly tell him to stop -- specifically, I am planning to [talk to / email] him and say [xyz]. However, I wanted to loop you in first so you're aware of the issue." Just be prepared to be told that you need to ask him to stop before your boss will take action. After that, the company will hopefully take constructive action (and if not, you will have prepared to take care of yourself).

If this is stressing you out (and it sounds like it really is), that is very understandable -- it's a very stressful situation. You might want to think about reaching out for support for yourself as you prepare to take action on this -- talk to a trusted friend, family member, therapist, or anyone else that you trust. Good luck.
posted by ourobouros at 5:30 PM on December 4, 2016 [4 favorites]

IANAL & IANYL, but I wouldn't worry too much about how much time has passed since this began or that your approach has been to avoid this guy. These are typical responses by anyone being harassed–hoping it would just go away and/or removing yourself from the dynamic as much as possible. I'm wondering if your hesitancy to address this issue earlier might be, in part, because you are afraid you will be accused of being homophobic or experiencing "gay panic," or some such nonsense, which is not the case given what you have described (from your posting history I gather you are a hetero cis male, but if I'm wrong, apologies). If anything, I would say waiting to see if the behavior abated and avoiding him as much as possible should score points in your favor. You didn't want an issue, you didn't want to make it a thing, and, if it was "harmless" but misdirected flirting, you gave the person time and space to correct and back off. He hasn't, and it is impacting your work environment.

Any concerns you have (other than retaliation or termination), I would address head-on and say something like, "When this began a year ago, I didn't make an issue out of it because I thought it would stop and, when it continued, I thought that if I avoided interacting with (person), that would make it stop. Neither of these tactics have worked, and I can no longer continue this way. I know my next step is to tell (person) to stop because his comments and behavior are unprofessional, but I'm letting you know now before I talk to him because I welcome any suggestions you have about how to approach this, and I want to begin documenting things in case my discussion with him does not go well." You seem to have clear, unambiguous incidents throughout the past year to mention and, from what I gather, the only missing pieces are that you haven't said anything to him or spoke to anyone at work about it. Unfortunately, now is the time to start that process. It won't be fun; in fact, it will be wicked uncomfortable, but no company wants this behavior happening and, if you are a valued employee, they will want to keep you.

I am happy to detail more of my experience if it might help you, so please MeMail me if you want support or to discuss this further. I think you are well-protected and know what to do. These initial steps are awkward and difficult, but they are necessary and worth it. Again, wishing you the best of luck!
posted by katemcd at 7:02 PM on December 4, 2016 [2 favorites]

Some victims are fired out of retaliation, sure, but some are also fired due to their reaction to the incident they have reported. That could be "documenting" that rises to the level of snooping or stalking, or a disproportionate or inappropriate reaction or response to an incident, stuff like that. Right now you are being teased, maybe bullied, but not sexually harassed. If you continue to stew without taking action you very likely could lose your temper at him or your manager or whomever, and you would be held accountable for your actions just like he will for his.

By doing nothing since he has started to make these comments to you, you have blown this massively out of proportion in your mind. Whoever you go to first will ask if you told him to stop and you'll say no. They will tell you to tell him to stop. If you go to HR they will also ask you if you talked to your manager and you'll say no. They will tell you to talk to your manager. Whether you tell HR/your boss today or a year from now he will only be reprimanded if he doesn't escalate. This isn't going to get him fired. That means you can quietly rage for another week or quietly rage for another year - the former sounds more productive for everyone.
posted by good lorneing at 7:36 PM on December 4, 2016

Well, I haven't yet told this guy to stop, that's because I haven't been giving him the opportunity to do so by avoiding him, and ignoring him when he speaks to me. Yet, he still persists.

Persists in doing what?

If he persists in walking up to you and talking to you, then you've had an opportunity to tell him to stop, because he's standing in front of you.

If you're successfully avoiding him, then from an employer's (shitty) perspective, he's no longer bothering you and the problem is solved.

If he's staring at you from across the room, you might have to actively walk up to him and tell him to stop.

This is why it sucks to be harassed.
posted by vitabellosi at 3:11 AM on December 5, 2016 [2 favorites]

First, tell him to stop. If he's there trying to regain rapport with you, there's your window. Tell him to stop making comments about your appearance because it's uncomfortable and unprofessional. Next, you tell your manager that you just told Bob to stop. And if it persists, go to HR. But your first step is that you need to literally, actually tell him to stop.
posted by kimberussell at 4:27 AM on December 5, 2016 [1 favorite]

If you don't feel comfortable telling him in person, I'd go with the email option mentioned in your prior question.

I have no doubt this guy knows by now that he's done something to offend you and he's reaching out the only way he knows how. You need to spell out, in no uncertain terms:
- What behavior makes you uncomfortable, with specific examples. If he mentioned something about your chest, say that you did not appreciate that comment and that it was unwelcome.
- The level of interaction you would prefer, so that he doesn't feel the need to badger you for some sort of reconciliation. ("Please stop doing things I feel are inappropriate and I'll consider the matter settled. I'm uncomfortable with your continued approaches to talk about this.") Being told that specific behaviors are unwelcome can be a shock to anyone, especially if it's something that you consider part of your personality. But being in an office environment means you have to adjust your behavior to work with others.
posted by mikeh at 8:28 AM on December 5, 2016

For what it's worth, about 10 years ago I (the IT guy) was approached by the COO of the law firm I worked for, looking for evidence to validate a legal secretary's sexual harassment charge against one of the firm's partners. It wasn't hard to find. The firm "allowed" him to resign. The firm was quick to respond in part because she threatened to sue, but even more because she was one the best secretaries in the firm. I'm no longer working there, but she is.
posted by lhauser at 4:27 PM on December 5, 2016 [2 favorites]