Some friend you've got there...
December 3, 2016 10:28 PM Subscribe
Toddler daughter has a friend who treats her badly... but she's the only friend nearby that she can usually hang out with outside of school.
My 2.5-year-old daughter is friends with our downstairs neighbours' daughter (ND) of approximately the same age. ND's parents invite us over or come visit quite a bit, but ND frequently pushes and/or takes swings at our daughter, at us, and at her own parents when she is frustrated or otherwise upset. You'd think, watching them hang out sometimes, that ND doesn't really like our daughter... but she asks for her all the time and frequently instigates the social calls. Our little girl has tended to take all this in stride but is getting increasingly upset as the instances of hitting get more and more common. While ND's parents recognize that the hitting is a problem, their solutions have been ineffective as the toddler-grade abuse continues and worsens. It's been going on for over a year now, and we're starting to feel like the support we've been providing for our daughter through it all is going to start amounting to training her to live with being bullied.
Now, the obvious solution here might just be to stop letting the two of them hang out. The hitch there, however, is that we are all expats living in a non-English speaking community and so finding other friends in the neighbourhood isn't a real option right now. Is having no friends outside of school preferrable to having a friend who doesn't treat you well some of the time? (Likely answer: Yes) Further, the parents of ND are neighbours and are also good friends of ours, and we'd hate to ruin that if it can be avoided.
So, any parents out there have similar experiences? Are there effective strategies that the parents of a child being pushed around by their friend can take outside of splitting them up? Or is putting some distance between them the only practical solution? Other thoughts?
My 2.5-year-old daughter is friends with our downstairs neighbours' daughter (ND) of approximately the same age. ND's parents invite us over or come visit quite a bit, but ND frequently pushes and/or takes swings at our daughter, at us, and at her own parents when she is frustrated or otherwise upset. You'd think, watching them hang out sometimes, that ND doesn't really like our daughter... but she asks for her all the time and frequently instigates the social calls. Our little girl has tended to take all this in stride but is getting increasingly upset as the instances of hitting get more and more common. While ND's parents recognize that the hitting is a problem, their solutions have been ineffective as the toddler-grade abuse continues and worsens. It's been going on for over a year now, and we're starting to feel like the support we've been providing for our daughter through it all is going to start amounting to training her to live with being bullied.
Now, the obvious solution here might just be to stop letting the two of them hang out. The hitch there, however, is that we are all expats living in a non-English speaking community and so finding other friends in the neighbourhood isn't a real option right now. Is having no friends outside of school preferrable to having a friend who doesn't treat you well some of the time? (Likely answer: Yes) Further, the parents of ND are neighbours and are also good friends of ours, and we'd hate to ruin that if it can be avoided.
So, any parents out there have similar experiences? Are there effective strategies that the parents of a child being pushed around by their friend can take outside of splitting them up? Or is putting some distance between them the only practical solution? Other thoughts?
My youngest daughter had a similar best friend at that age. They really were best friends, both always asked to play and all playdates ended in tears. We parents monitored every second as did the teachers at play school, and we were consequential on all violence, but it never changed.
Eventually the friend moved 100's of miles away and it ended but it was frustrating for all while it lasted.
That said, both girls have grown up to be normal young adults with healthy friendships and good at setting boundaries. They are FB friends, but not at all close.
My advice would be to set strong boundaries: hitting is not acceptable and will result in a time-out (at that age, 10 minutes is a very long time-out). Make sure that the friend's parents are on board with this, and also that you won't facilitate playdates unless they are. My friends totally were, they were as worried as me. In my experience this didn't really help in the situation, but it did teach my daughter and her friend that violence is unacceptable, which came in useful for both later in life.
posted by mumimor at 12:07 AM on December 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Eventually the friend moved 100's of miles away and it ended but it was frustrating for all while it lasted.
That said, both girls have grown up to be normal young adults with healthy friendships and good at setting boundaries. They are FB friends, but not at all close.
My advice would be to set strong boundaries: hitting is not acceptable and will result in a time-out (at that age, 10 minutes is a very long time-out). Make sure that the friend's parents are on board with this, and also that you won't facilitate playdates unless they are. My friends totally were, they were as worried as me. In my experience this didn't really help in the situation, but it did teach my daughter and her friend that violence is unacceptable, which came in useful for both later in life.
posted by mumimor at 12:07 AM on December 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
You say after school, so does that mean that your daughter goes to preschool or daycare? Are there any children there that she plays with, or local parks or areas where parents take their children to play?
I ask because I'm not sure how to interpret the question - whether you live in a country or culture where it's legitimately dangerous or otherwise inadvisable to interact with local people, or if it's just that language is a barrier. Because a 2.5 year old can easily have friends who speak different languages (even an adult can). If the problem is communicating enough with other parents to set up play dates, I'd suggest making serious efforts, maybe with the help of the school teacher; taking your daughter to public play areas if those exist; and learning enough of the local language to be able to invite people over (or even the public group playtime might be enough).
(I should add that in many places parents would leap at the chance for their kids to play with your daughter just for the English exposure.)
posted by trig at 1:39 AM on December 4, 2016 [26 favorites]
I ask because I'm not sure how to interpret the question - whether you live in a country or culture where it's legitimately dangerous or otherwise inadvisable to interact with local people, or if it's just that language is a barrier. Because a 2.5 year old can easily have friends who speak different languages (even an adult can). If the problem is communicating enough with other parents to set up play dates, I'd suggest making serious efforts, maybe with the help of the school teacher; taking your daughter to public play areas if those exist; and learning enough of the local language to be able to invite people over (or even the public group playtime might be enough).
(I should add that in many places parents would leap at the chance for their kids to play with your daughter just for the English exposure.)
posted by trig at 1:39 AM on December 4, 2016 [26 favorites]
A friend of mine had a similar issue, and one of the things that really helped was coaching her kid in ways to respond when this sort of thing happens. Her and the kid sat and practiced together how to say things like "[Friend], please stop that", and then if the friend doesn't stop, go find mum. The kids are even better friends now and the difficult behaviour has stopped (with other kids too).
posted by emilyw at 2:59 AM on December 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by emilyw at 2:59 AM on December 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Hi all, thanks very much for the feedback so far. I realize that I wasn't very clear on the degree to which we've been intervening already. Steps taken by myself and Mrs. Potato include:
- Stepping in when it looks like disagreements are escalating to the point where there might be some pushing/hitting
- Separating them when pushing/hitting occurs
- Coaching our wee spud on ways to respond verbally when the conflict happens, and to come let us know (she's quite good at these!)
- Planning visits so that they don't correspond with times when ND will be tired and cranky
ND's parents also try to intervene, but to little long-term effect. They'll scoop ND up and out of the situation, and short timeouts are occasionally given, but all of this is done in such a gentle and soothing way that it almost feels like a treat for their little girl to get the attention. Most times the hitting stops at this point but is back with a vengeance for the next dispute.
I won't threadsit further than this, but thought the clarification would be helpful.
posted by elected_potato at 4:53 AM on December 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
- Stepping in when it looks like disagreements are escalating to the point where there might be some pushing/hitting
- Separating them when pushing/hitting occurs
- Coaching our wee spud on ways to respond verbally when the conflict happens, and to come let us know (she's quite good at these!)
- Planning visits so that they don't correspond with times when ND will be tired and cranky
ND's parents also try to intervene, but to little long-term effect. They'll scoop ND up and out of the situation, and short timeouts are occasionally given, but all of this is done in such a gentle and soothing way that it almost feels like a treat for their little girl to get the attention. Most times the hitting stops at this point but is back with a vengeance for the next dispute.
I won't threadsit further than this, but thought the clarification would be helpful.
posted by elected_potato at 4:53 AM on December 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is an incredibly common behavior in 2 year olds, even 2.5 year olds, and it's really difficult for the parent of the kid on the receiving end. I particularly remember a 3 year old friend biting my 3 year old because mine was taking a drink at the water fountain in the park and the biter thought it was HER fountain. Her father laughed and I was livid. Now, many years later, I am amazed at how much rationality I projected onto those toddlers. They also insisted on being called Snow White and drank from a NYC street puddle one day because "we're puppies!" The only thing to do if it's upsetting your daughter (and why shouldn't it) is really not have playdates any more at ND's house. Go out somewhere if you want to, where they can't be fighting over toys and where there is a different focus. I agree with the poster above who says playdates aren't necessary at this age. They really are hugely overrated for toddlers. If the stress of the playdate outweighs the fun, for either the kid or the parents, there really is not a point in doing it. With this biter -- there is no way she's going to learn from a time out RIGHT NOW even if her parents spoke sternly instead of soothingly (I know it's galling for you of course) and she's going to have to grow out of it, guided by her parents teaching.
posted by flourpot at 5:28 AM on December 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by flourpot at 5:28 AM on December 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Heavens! Just make it STOP already!!
What you can do is lay down the ground rules: the kids can play together as long as they play nicely. As soon as they stop playing nicely, the playdate is OVER and the kids each go home. That's it. It's not on you to parent this other kid. Don't overcomplicate this.
Please stop letting your kid be a punching bag for this other kid. It's a great thing to teach your kid to stand up for themselves but for heaven's sake, you can't do that AND still let this kid who hits her hang around. All you're telling her is that sometimes other people will hit her and you should tell them to stop and sometimes they won't and then you can still hang out with them.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:31 AM on December 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
What you can do is lay down the ground rules: the kids can play together as long as they play nicely. As soon as they stop playing nicely, the playdate is OVER and the kids each go home. That's it. It's not on you to parent this other kid. Don't overcomplicate this.
Please stop letting your kid be a punching bag for this other kid. It's a great thing to teach your kid to stand up for themselves but for heaven's sake, you can't do that AND still let this kid who hits her hang around. All you're telling her is that sometimes other people will hit her and you should tell them to stop and sometimes they won't and then you can still hang out with them.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:31 AM on December 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
Hey hey I mostly disagree with everyone here. I don't think you should just stop playing with ND.
My nearly 3-year-old daughter has been best friends with the same kid since 8 months old. We actually have a pretty big social circle and both girls are well socialized. But for awhile, Bestie was really, really violent with my daughter--snatching toys, pushing.
I asked my daughter so many times if she still wanted to play with Bestie. The answer every time? Yes. And if I was honest with myself, the relationship with Bestie's parents was really valuable to me. I think this is a valuable time and way to teach your kid to stand up or herself and to interact socially. And at 2ish? Playdates are great lessons for socialization (less necessary before a year, sure, but for preschoolers, they're pretty vital) But it's going to be hard work, to teach them how to play kindly with one another.
Most of our toddler conflicts were over toys--Bestie's toys especially. We would go over their house and she would chase after my daughter, snatching away every toy she tried to play with, pushing over block towers, pushing her out of a learning tower when my daughter tried to get some space alone. I don't know about your situation, but ours was exacerbated by a few things, namely that Bestie had a new baby sister and seemed to be redirecting aggression to my daughter, and also that Bestie was bigger, stronger, and more verbal than my daughter. She would lie about pushing my kid over ("Molly fell. She's sad") with a stone-faced expression, and my daughter would sit there and wail. It was a really difficult dynamic.
I found this book to be extremely helpful in navigating their dynamic. In short, outside of "special" toys that the kids set aside before playdates, my daughter has a right to play with toys and not be pushed out of the way or snatched from. I reminded myself of this CONSTANTLY (mantra: it'sokaynottoshareit'sokaynottoshare). We also read this book on bodily consent together. We talk a lot about how games are only fun when both people are having fun and I reminded myself that it's okay to intervene, and specifically, to intervene with the other kid. I have picked her up and removed her from the situation (don't focus on pulling your own kid away if they haven't done anything wrong).
Remember, you are stronger than any 2.5 year old. You do not need to tolerate being hit. Hold her hands, look her firmly in the eyes, say "I won't let you hit Daughter. I won't let you hit me" then redirect her elsewhere. If she is mad, say "I see that you're mad. I can't let you hit Daughter. Let's go find another toy to play with."
Playing on neutral ground helped a lot (the library, the park). Letting them be outside to run and play physically did, too, since Bestie is much more physical generally than my daughter. When conflicts came up, and my daughter seemed upset, we wrote letters to Bestie. She would dictate, and I would write them down. We didn't send them, but she seemed glad to just be heard. Stuff like:
"Dear Bestie,
I was sad when you took the stethoscope from me and then pushed me. I wanted it to check your ears and you took it. That made me so sad. I tickled your sister and that made me happy again. We can still be friends. Please don't take things from me. Still friends.
Love,
Little WanKenobi"
The last thing is that you need to watch them closely not just for points of conflict but for times when they play well together. PRAISE THE SHIT OUT OF THEM. Just heap it on both girls. "You shared that toy SO NICELY ND" or "Look at Daughter playing kindly without hitting." I'm not into a lot of behavioral-training style parenting (we don't do timeouts, personally) but praising 2 year olds absolutely works and is totally necessary in this kind of situation. They are like puppies. They lap it up. If you watch closely, you WILL notice ND being kind, even for a moment, and the more you can call attention to that, the better.
I don't know if it's due to anything I did, or just that the girls grew out of it, but we wrote the above letter 6 months ago. Now, at 3, they play BEAUTIFULLY with one another. We're part of a forest playgroup and they were recently matched up in a cooperative project. "The girls played so well together," I said to their mom. "Well, we already knew they could. It's not a challenge for them," she cheerfully replied.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:19 AM on December 4, 2016 [16 favorites]
My nearly 3-year-old daughter has been best friends with the same kid since 8 months old. We actually have a pretty big social circle and both girls are well socialized. But for awhile, Bestie was really, really violent with my daughter--snatching toys, pushing.
I asked my daughter so many times if she still wanted to play with Bestie. The answer every time? Yes. And if I was honest with myself, the relationship with Bestie's parents was really valuable to me. I think this is a valuable time and way to teach your kid to stand up or herself and to interact socially. And at 2ish? Playdates are great lessons for socialization (less necessary before a year, sure, but for preschoolers, they're pretty vital) But it's going to be hard work, to teach them how to play kindly with one another.
Most of our toddler conflicts were over toys--Bestie's toys especially. We would go over their house and she would chase after my daughter, snatching away every toy she tried to play with, pushing over block towers, pushing her out of a learning tower when my daughter tried to get some space alone. I don't know about your situation, but ours was exacerbated by a few things, namely that Bestie had a new baby sister and seemed to be redirecting aggression to my daughter, and also that Bestie was bigger, stronger, and more verbal than my daughter. She would lie about pushing my kid over ("Molly fell. She's sad") with a stone-faced expression, and my daughter would sit there and wail. It was a really difficult dynamic.
I found this book to be extremely helpful in navigating their dynamic. In short, outside of "special" toys that the kids set aside before playdates, my daughter has a right to play with toys and not be pushed out of the way or snatched from. I reminded myself of this CONSTANTLY (mantra: it'sokaynottoshareit'sokaynottoshare). We also read this book on bodily consent together. We talk a lot about how games are only fun when both people are having fun and I reminded myself that it's okay to intervene, and specifically, to intervene with the other kid. I have picked her up and removed her from the situation (don't focus on pulling your own kid away if they haven't done anything wrong).
Remember, you are stronger than any 2.5 year old. You do not need to tolerate being hit. Hold her hands, look her firmly in the eyes, say "I won't let you hit Daughter. I won't let you hit me" then redirect her elsewhere. If she is mad, say "I see that you're mad. I can't let you hit Daughter. Let's go find another toy to play with."
Playing on neutral ground helped a lot (the library, the park). Letting them be outside to run and play physically did, too, since Bestie is much more physical generally than my daughter. When conflicts came up, and my daughter seemed upset, we wrote letters to Bestie. She would dictate, and I would write them down. We didn't send them, but she seemed glad to just be heard. Stuff like:
"Dear Bestie,
I was sad when you took the stethoscope from me and then pushed me. I wanted it to check your ears and you took it. That made me so sad. I tickled your sister and that made me happy again. We can still be friends. Please don't take things from me. Still friends.
Love,
Little WanKenobi"
The last thing is that you need to watch them closely not just for points of conflict but for times when they play well together. PRAISE THE SHIT OUT OF THEM. Just heap it on both girls. "You shared that toy SO NICELY ND" or "Look at Daughter playing kindly without hitting." I'm not into a lot of behavioral-training style parenting (we don't do timeouts, personally) but praising 2 year olds absolutely works and is totally necessary in this kind of situation. They are like puppies. They lap it up. If you watch closely, you WILL notice ND being kind, even for a moment, and the more you can call attention to that, the better.
I don't know if it's due to anything I did, or just that the girls grew out of it, but we wrote the above letter 6 months ago. Now, at 3, they play BEAUTIFULLY with one another. We're part of a forest playgroup and they were recently matched up in a cooperative project. "The girls played so well together," I said to their mom. "Well, we already knew they could. It's not a challenge for them," she cheerfully replied.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:19 AM on December 4, 2016 [16 favorites]
2.5 year olds don't have "friends" and don't need playdates, especially if they already are in preschool or daycare. At that age playdates are more about allowing the parents time to hang out.
The other family needs to step up in how they are managing this.
As others have advised, take a break from hanging out with them.
posted by k8t at 8:43 AM on December 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
The other family needs to step up in how they are managing this.
As others have advised, take a break from hanging out with them.
posted by k8t at 8:43 AM on December 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
Oh, one last thought, just based on skimming "It's OK Not to Share" again, is that one of the authors' focuses is teaching children self-advocacy during conflict. When you see your child struggling, ask them to tell the other child FIRST what they want or how they feel. At this age, and with this level of conflict, you might still find yourself swooping in quickly, but teaching children to tell each other "I don't like that," "I was playing with that, you can have it later" or even "No, stop that," can be incredibly empowering. These conflicts serve a purpose for kids this age--they're there to teach them how to navigate social relationships--and the benefit of white-knuckling through it (for the parent) is that you're giving your child skills that will help them play independently without adult intervention later.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:44 AM on December 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:44 AM on December 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
Wow! I was planning to mention a couple of points that PhoBWabKenobi wrote about, but their answer seems pretty complete. Playing in neutral territory would often help relieve many "property" based disputes between my toddler kids and their friends. That doesn't mean they won't still argue over who gets the middle swing, but also lets the kids take a break from each other to retreat to neutral territory for a few minutes.
At that age my older daughter had a friend who would hit and bite. Yikes. We taught her to clearly, and loudly state things like, "DO NOT HIT ME", and "IT'S NOT FUN IF YOU DON'T SHARE." Hearing these words spoken clearly from another kid can make them feel more impactful.
It's great that she is letting you know about conflicts, but she may be able to handle many of them on her own. Often with kids the disagreement hits a peak and then quickly dissipates. It can empower your daughter to know that she may be able to solve the problem on her own without adult intervention. I've heard my kids screaming bloody murder at each other, and by the time I make it upstairs to referee they've happily moved on.
As for the other parents, it sounds like they are mostly doing what they are supposed to be doing. Little kids have a very difficult time managing their emotions. ND will likely grow out of it soon, but in the meantime it can help to help her label her feelings as mentioned above. "I see that you are angry, but we do not hit when we are angry." Also, if they are spending a lot of time together, ND may see your daughter as a sibling/family member and may not be as aggressive with other kids. Not so helpful in your situation, but helps to understand some of the reason why your daughter is being targeted. My younger child will occasionally hit her older sister, but had never been aggressive to friends, UNTIL we became close friends with our neighbors and now they treat each other as cousins. Which means sometimes someone gets hit. Bleh.
On a slightly more controversial note, consider that your daughter may be contributing to the situation. Of course nothing she does warrants being attacked, but there could be something she does to provoke ND. In the situation with our ND, I noticed that ND would, with a sweet face and calm voice, tell my daughter that her drawing was ugly or subtly needle her about not having long hair. (Our ND is the younger sister of a very accomplished sibling and likely said these things to "brag" to my daughter who is younger than her. It's all connected. ) For a while all I saw was my daughter snatching things away and hitting ND (which we would immediately stop and discuss with our daughter) but at some point I realized that ND was contributing in a different way than I had expected. Also, we discovered that ND liked getting our daughter in trouble because she would be coddled while my daughter was punished. But this may not apply to you at all.
And, praise, praise, praise all positive interactions. I know it feels terrible now, but it's normal, and one day you may notice that the squabbles have ended and you don't remember when it happened.
Btw, kids are the worst. Ha!
posted by defreckled at 9:23 AM on December 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
At that age my older daughter had a friend who would hit and bite. Yikes. We taught her to clearly, and loudly state things like, "DO NOT HIT ME", and "IT'S NOT FUN IF YOU DON'T SHARE." Hearing these words spoken clearly from another kid can make them feel more impactful.
It's great that she is letting you know about conflicts, but she may be able to handle many of them on her own. Often with kids the disagreement hits a peak and then quickly dissipates. It can empower your daughter to know that she may be able to solve the problem on her own without adult intervention. I've heard my kids screaming bloody murder at each other, and by the time I make it upstairs to referee they've happily moved on.
As for the other parents, it sounds like they are mostly doing what they are supposed to be doing. Little kids have a very difficult time managing their emotions. ND will likely grow out of it soon, but in the meantime it can help to help her label her feelings as mentioned above. "I see that you are angry, but we do not hit when we are angry." Also, if they are spending a lot of time together, ND may see your daughter as a sibling/family member and may not be as aggressive with other kids. Not so helpful in your situation, but helps to understand some of the reason why your daughter is being targeted. My younger child will occasionally hit her older sister, but had never been aggressive to friends, UNTIL we became close friends with our neighbors and now they treat each other as cousins. Which means sometimes someone gets hit. Bleh.
On a slightly more controversial note, consider that your daughter may be contributing to the situation. Of course nothing she does warrants being attacked, but there could be something she does to provoke ND. In the situation with our ND, I noticed that ND would, with a sweet face and calm voice, tell my daughter that her drawing was ugly or subtly needle her about not having long hair. (Our ND is the younger sister of a very accomplished sibling and likely said these things to "brag" to my daughter who is younger than her. It's all connected. ) For a while all I saw was my daughter snatching things away and hitting ND (which we would immediately stop and discuss with our daughter) but at some point I realized that ND was contributing in a different way than I had expected. Also, we discovered that ND liked getting our daughter in trouble because she would be coddled while my daughter was punished. But this may not apply to you at all.
And, praise, praise, praise all positive interactions. I know it feels terrible now, but it's normal, and one day you may notice that the squabbles have ended and you don't remember when it happened.
Btw, kids are the worst. Ha!
posted by defreckled at 9:23 AM on December 4, 2016 [4 favorites]
Your kids are two and a half years old.
Their kid is not "instigating" social visits with your kid. (And if she is, and if the parents are facilitating this even though they know social interactions tend not to go well, that's honestly even worse.)
Your kids are really only slightly able to understand the concept of playing together as opposed to next to each other.
This kid is repeatedly a dick to your child, and while obviously she doesn't mean anything by it because she's a baby and doesn't understand, it's also not fair to your daughter to force negative interactions.
Your toddler daughter is not old enough to understand "friends outside of school" vs. friends at school or whatever. In general I think kids having more social interaction is a good idea, but if this particular person is not a good fit for your kid, it's obviously better to just stop having these playdates.
If you want to socialize with the parents on your own time, don't structure it as a "playdate". I think it's fine for your kids to be around each other, but stop forcing so much direct interaction between the two of them. Also, if they're really friends, maybe talk to them about working with their kid to not hit other people? This seems like something where the onus is on them, and where "but she really likes coming over!" isn't a real answer because she's a toddler for chrissakes and their job is to parent their own child.
posted by Sara C. at 11:52 AM on December 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Their kid is not "instigating" social visits with your kid. (And if she is, and if the parents are facilitating this even though they know social interactions tend not to go well, that's honestly even worse.)
Your kids are really only slightly able to understand the concept of playing together as opposed to next to each other.
This kid is repeatedly a dick to your child, and while obviously she doesn't mean anything by it because she's a baby and doesn't understand, it's also not fair to your daughter to force negative interactions.
Your toddler daughter is not old enough to understand "friends outside of school" vs. friends at school or whatever. In general I think kids having more social interaction is a good idea, but if this particular person is not a good fit for your kid, it's obviously better to just stop having these playdates.
If you want to socialize with the parents on your own time, don't structure it as a "playdate". I think it's fine for your kids to be around each other, but stop forcing so much direct interaction between the two of them. Also, if they're really friends, maybe talk to them about working with their kid to not hit other people? This seems like something where the onus is on them, and where "but she really likes coming over!" isn't a real answer because she's a toddler for chrissakes and their job is to parent their own child.
posted by Sara C. at 11:52 AM on December 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
As the parent of a 2.5 yo I sympathise with the desire for s playmate. I'm confused by the 'outside of school' thing, though. Is your toddler at school already? Or do you mean day care? If your child is already in some kind of external care I would echo the idea that this is ample socialisation. I would cut my losses, largely, and minimise interactions, and as others have said, monitor them heavily and cut them off.
My child, fwiw, absolutely does request play dates with others. But she's also very easily distracted and would happily play with me or her dad instead most of the time.
posted by jojobobo at 1:05 PM on December 4, 2016
My child, fwiw, absolutely does request play dates with others. But she's also very easily distracted and would happily play with me or her dad instead most of the time.
posted by jojobobo at 1:05 PM on December 4, 2016
Best answer: I had a family friend with a daughter that did a six month 'break' with a playdate friend, which seemed to work. Basically her daughter played with someone who was a bit of a hitter, and the situation had gone on for about 3 months. They'd tried the neutral space, thing, redirecting, etc.
My friend had first thought of it as a learning opportunity for their daughter, "Say no, very loudly, etc." until they figured that their daughter had learned this lesson and further interactions would just result in her getting hit (which was hard for my friend to watch, no matter how apologetic the other kid's parent was).
Finally, she went stone cold, and nicely told the family and play date that 'we don't hit in our family and if you hit her again, we're going to have to leave'. The hit came and she silently scooped up her kid, nodded at the other parent and left.
And she gave it a month (because it is really a phase), and tried again. Rinse, repeated for about six times about once a month until the other girl sort of grew out of it. I don't know if they're still friends or not, but basically my friend decided that since it wasn't on both sides (both kids yelling, agitating, hitting each other, but just the other kid) it seemed worth it give the relationship a break and let the other girl grow up/grow out of it a little.
posted by anitanita at 7:21 PM on December 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
My friend had first thought of it as a learning opportunity for their daughter, "Say no, very loudly, etc." until they figured that their daughter had learned this lesson and further interactions would just result in her getting hit (which was hard for my friend to watch, no matter how apologetic the other kid's parent was).
Finally, she went stone cold, and nicely told the family and play date that 'we don't hit in our family and if you hit her again, we're going to have to leave'. The hit came and she silently scooped up her kid, nodded at the other parent and left.
And she gave it a month (because it is really a phase), and tried again. Rinse, repeated for about six times about once a month until the other girl sort of grew out of it. I don't know if they're still friends or not, but basically my friend decided that since it wasn't on both sides (both kids yelling, agitating, hitting each other, but just the other kid) it seemed worth it give the relationship a break and let the other girl grow up/grow out of it a little.
posted by anitanita at 7:21 PM on December 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
Yes I also want to chime back in that this period doesn't generally last all that long.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 12:32 PM on December 5, 2016
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 12:32 PM on December 5, 2016
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You should feel comfortable advocating for your daughter. I don't want to worry you, but this is very very bad and you have to (1) Take a break from these folks to let your daughter get past the negative conditioning a little bit, and (2) Talk to your friends honestly! You have to!
"Friends, we love you guys, but we want to take a break for a few weeks because ND hits Daughter a lot, and we're hoping if we take some time off it might break the cycle between them."
Or something like that. I don't know! How honest can you be?
At the playground where we live, parents that allow their children to be aggressive that way without significant boundaries are shunned. How is it that ND's parents don't step in during these episodes? I think you have to intervene every single time it happens after you start hanging out again. And your daughter to advocate for herself! Teach her to speak up or at least know she can ask you for help.
During aggression, simply say, "ND, please only use Gentle Touching w/ Daughter." And then if ND doesn't stop, you politely but firmly end the play date. "Daughter, Parent is coming home soon, let's go home and make them a picture! Would you like that? OK say good bye to ND. See you soon!" And that's it. Just cut it short every single time ND doesn't listen and continues with aggression towards your daughter. Don't blame ND, just re-direct your daughter and exit.
You'll need to constantly monitor their playtime together, forever. Honestly? I wouldn't bother if ND's parents don't step up. Kids can be mean, they'll do all sorts of stuff when the adults aren't looking, your daughter has already been socialized to accept this treatment. You can find other play dates. This is not worth the lessons your daughter is inadvertently learning.
posted by jbenben at 11:52 PM on December 3, 2016 [18 favorites]