Custom couch still sets off asthma. What's fair?
October 18, 2016 4:12 PM Subscribe
A custom couch induces asthma after two years' careful offgassing; is it fair for us to ask the shop to resell it without commission? Their sample furniture didn't cause asthma.
Two years ago my sweetie and I bought a custom couch from a shop with a local storefront. We went and sat on their couches, lay down on them, etc., and ordered one in a different size and color than the floor models.
It gave my sweetie asthma right away. The store said oh, that's because the custom order is so fresh from the factory that the material hasn't finished offgassing yet. So the couch has been in our house (to be warm and dry) in a Mylar-wrapped frame with a constant muffin fan blowing out a window for *two years*. Every so often my sweetie sniffs the outflow vent; weaker, but not better. He can't spend much time in that room. We have given up on the couch and would like the room back.
Selling couches online, Craigslist, etc., makes back hardly any of the value. We would like to ask the store to let us sell the couch in their showroom at floor-model prices. We don't think we got what we tried in the showroom, since those couches don't make my sweetie ill.
If this couch makes *other* people sick, then I think they have an issue with their supplier, but I don't know what we can do about that.
Does this seem reasonable? Is there a good way of phrasing it?
Two years ago my sweetie and I bought a custom couch from a shop with a local storefront. We went and sat on their couches, lay down on them, etc., and ordered one in a different size and color than the floor models.
It gave my sweetie asthma right away. The store said oh, that's because the custom order is so fresh from the factory that the material hasn't finished offgassing yet. So the couch has been in our house (to be warm and dry) in a Mylar-wrapped frame with a constant muffin fan blowing out a window for *two years*. Every so often my sweetie sniffs the outflow vent; weaker, but not better. He can't spend much time in that room. We have given up on the couch and would like the room back.
Selling couches online, Craigslist, etc., makes back hardly any of the value. We would like to ask the store to let us sell the couch in their showroom at floor-model prices. We don't think we got what we tried in the showroom, since those couches don't make my sweetie ill.
If this couch makes *other* people sick, then I think they have an issue with their supplier, but I don't know what we can do about that.
Does this seem reasonable? Is there a good way of phrasing it?
I sympathize as someone who gets "the wheeze" from stuff. That said the missing part to this story is How long the outgassing is supposed to take? Because to me, no, two years is not actually a reasonable window of time after which you should still be able to return a couch--styles change, it was a custom order, and the store would have to take your word for it that you've cared for it properly and most stores aren't likely to do that.
I feel like something is going on here other than "We just got sick of waiting". Did you contact the furniture store again after the initial contact? Offgassing is usually a few-day thing, not a few-years thing (though some people disagree). But, it won't offgas properly if it's still wrapped up so this is simultaneously too long and not long enough.
So, I do agree with rainbowbrite that, even with the above sentiments, you can always try but I'd be pretty careful in how you phrase it and be able to answer some questions about why you're doing this two years later.
posted by jessamyn at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
I feel like something is going on here other than "We just got sick of waiting". Did you contact the furniture store again after the initial contact? Offgassing is usually a few-day thing, not a few-years thing (though some people disagree). But, it won't offgas properly if it's still wrapped up so this is simultaneously too long and not long enough.
So, I do agree with rainbowbrite that, even with the above sentiments, you can always try but I'd be pretty careful in how you phrase it and be able to answer some questions about why you're doing this two years later.
posted by jessamyn at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2016 [6 favorites]
Sorry, but I think this is super unreasonable. It would have been one thing after a couple of weeks, maybe a month, but two years?
Yeah, no. Lesson learned. Sell it on CL and move on.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2016 [30 favorites]
Yeah, no. Lesson learned. Sell it on CL and move on.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2016 [30 favorites]
If it had been a month, I'd say you were entirely fine. To have kept the couch for two years, however, I don't think the store is obligated to accept it as a return. They have only your word that you haven't used it, and the world is full of dishonorable people. I guess it's worth asking them if they'd take it as a floor model, but I wouldn't expect them to say yes and I don't think you have any recourse if they don't. When you pitch it, I'd emphasize that you can provide them with pictures to prove there's no wear and tear and it's pretty much good as new. Are there any consignment stores in your area?
posted by Diablevert at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Diablevert at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: We don't want them to accept it as a return. We don't expect them to give us any money. We just want it to be out on their floor for sale, so that buyers can see the condition it's in -- we can't have people come into our house to look because we can't have the couch open to the rest of the house. Does that make it more fair?
We did tell the shop when we'd had it a few weeks; that's when they said the material was new and offgassing. Lots of asthmatics keep furniture in a garage for a year, it turns out. (Don't be asthmatic. It sucks and wheezes.)
(It's been offgassing in a *continuously vented heated chamber*, which I do say in the OP but is engineer-solution enough that I'm not surprised it didn't sink in.)
posted by clew at 5:00 PM on October 18, 2016
We did tell the shop when we'd had it a few weeks; that's when they said the material was new and offgassing. Lots of asthmatics keep furniture in a garage for a year, it turns out. (Don't be asthmatic. It sucks and wheezes.)
(It's been offgassing in a *continuously vented heated chamber*, which I do say in the OP but is engineer-solution enough that I'm not surprised it didn't sink in.)
posted by clew at 5:00 PM on October 18, 2016
To clarify, you want to use the furniture store's showroom to display the couch while you find a buyer, and then keep the profits yourself?
posted by delight at 5:08 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by delight at 5:08 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
How sure you are this is offgassing vs. mold? Suppose the custom fabric the couch was made with, had been sitting in a warehouse for a few years and got infected with mold spores. Your solution of ventilating it near a window could possibly just have given the mold a nice environment in which to reproduce, with plenty of fresh oxygen to grow.
Also - bravo for building the mylar / muffin fan outgassing gizmo, but... one thinks... after a few days when this didn't work, perhaps a new strategy was called for?
posted by soylent00FF00 at 5:12 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also - bravo for building the mylar / muffin fan outgassing gizmo, but... one thinks... after a few days when this didn't work, perhaps a new strategy was called for?
posted by soylent00FF00 at 5:12 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
The store has absolutely no way of knowing that you haven't been using the couch for the two years that you've owned it. If the couch didn't work for you the time to address that with the store was years ago. It's your couch now and no, they are unlikely to let you use their showroom to sell it, and would probably look at you incredulously if you asked them.
posted by MsMolly at 5:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by MsMolly at 5:32 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think you should calculate what you can realistically get on CL, then call the store and see if they have a better offer (in terms of what, if anything, they are prepared to do for you). It's highly unlikely but I can't see how it would hurt to ask.
On the other hand, I agree turning off the heat to see what the couch smells like after cooling and maybe even airing out outside would be worth a try.
posted by JenMarie at 5:39 PM on October 18, 2016
On the other hand, I agree turning off the heat to see what the couch smells like after cooling and maybe even airing out outside would be worth a try.
posted by JenMarie at 5:39 PM on October 18, 2016
I don't think they're going to be willing to sell this couch for you because, if they tell people why it's available, they're admitting their product makes some people sick; and if they don't tell and it makes somebody else sick, they could conceivably incur significant liability.
As you probably know, there's currently a significant issue with PBDE fire retardants in upholstered furniture and many other products.
It may well be legal for them to display a product in their showroom that does not contain fire retardants, but not legal for them to sell a product to consumers that does not contain fire retardant. If that's true, and there is such a difference, and they're willing to tell you so, you might be able to argue that they're morally obligated to take the couch and give you your money back. I'd certainly give that a try.
posted by jamjam at 5:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
As you probably know, there's currently a significant issue with PBDE fire retardants in upholstered furniture and many other products.
It may well be legal for them to display a product in their showroom that does not contain fire retardants, but not legal for them to sell a product to consumers that does not contain fire retardant. If that's true, and there is such a difference, and they're willing to tell you so, you might be able to argue that they're morally obligated to take the couch and give you your money back. I'd certainly give that a try.
posted by jamjam at 5:43 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
I can't imagine a store will allow you to bring a used piece of furniture to sell on their premises. What if it has picked up bed bugs or mold (they may ask, theoretically)? What might their liability issues be? Why would they give you their valuable floor space to conduct your own business? It seems unlikely to me that they would agree to that.
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 5:44 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Ink-stained wretch at 5:44 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
Honestly, I would just level with the store and tell them that you tried to make the couch work for you, in good faith, for two years, but it's ultimately a defective product because the fumes are not something you (or anyone) should have to live with. This isn't a sweater you're returning because you decided you didn't like the color -- this is a defective product, and that should provide some leniency with the return policy.
It's worth asking them to take it back, straight up, before proposing an unorthodox "we use the space and take the money" approach. Just call them and see what they can do for you. It might work out better than you think (apologies if you've already tried this and I missed it).
posted by delight at 5:49 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's worth asking them to take it back, straight up, before proposing an unorthodox "we use the space and take the money" approach. Just call them and see what they can do for you. It might work out better than you think (apologies if you've already tried this and I missed it).
posted by delight at 5:49 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Tell them you have tried your darndest with the couch, it isn't working out, and ask if you can swap your brand new, perfectly off-gassed couch for one of their floor models.
posted by arnicae at 6:32 PM on October 18, 2016
posted by arnicae at 6:32 PM on October 18, 2016
We don't think we got what we tried in the showroom, since those couches don't make my sweetie ill.
No offense to your sweetie, but this is an extremely weak argument. From what you've written, it doesn't sound like you've identified a material difference between what you got and what you ordered, and it doesn't sound like you even know what physical substance is triggering your sweetie's athsma. You've also tried your own homebrewed solution that involved cooking the couch for two years, which might have made things worse and was clearly outside the shop's control. If your sweetie doesn't know what specific substances he needs to avoid, how can you expect the shop to know?
This sounds like a crappy problem to have, but the idea that the shop owes you something for it seems like a real stretch.
posted by jon1270 at 7:58 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
No offense to your sweetie, but this is an extremely weak argument. From what you've written, it doesn't sound like you've identified a material difference between what you got and what you ordered, and it doesn't sound like you even know what physical substance is triggering your sweetie's athsma. You've also tried your own homebrewed solution that involved cooking the couch for two years, which might have made things worse and was clearly outside the shop's control. If your sweetie doesn't know what specific substances he needs to avoid, how can you expect the shop to know?
This sounds like a crappy problem to have, but the idea that the shop owes you something for it seems like a real stretch.
posted by jon1270 at 7:58 PM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
We don't want them to accept it as a return. We don't expect them to give us any money. We just want it to be out on their floor for sale, so that buyers can see the condition it's in -- we can't have people come into our house to look because we can't have the couch open to the rest of the house. Does that make it more fair?
What? No, this is a completely unreasonable request and I'm not sure what could possibly convince them to do such a thing. I have sold shit on craiglist and that means people coming into my house. That's what happens when you buy something you decide not to keep and sell it online.
posted by AppleTurnover at 8:29 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
What? No, this is a completely unreasonable request and I'm not sure what could possibly convince them to do such a thing. I have sold shit on craiglist and that means people coming into my house. That's what happens when you buy something you decide not to keep and sell it online.
posted by AppleTurnover at 8:29 PM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]
you're not running a controlled experiment. How hot is the room and temp you're keeping this couch at? The MSDS for Mylar says at hot temps it can degrade and cause fumes. You may be replacing your factory fumes with new ones from the plastic you have the thing wrapped in, for all you know.
Meanwhile- two years? Quit running that fan and use your energy savings to buy a new couch.
You can try to approach the store on this: but really, I suspect your only viable option is craigslist.
posted by slateyness at 8:48 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
Meanwhile- two years? Quit running that fan and use your energy savings to buy a new couch.
You can try to approach the store on this: but really, I suspect your only viable option is craigslist.
posted by slateyness at 8:48 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
As an asthmatic, I sympathize, but as a fellow consumer, I'm afraid you're asking too much --- if you'd done something when you first told the shop, a few weeks after purchase, okay I could see getting a refund then, but they owe you nothing now.
They don't have any legal (or ethical) debt to you after two years. And sure, all you say you want is their floor space, but:
1) What about getting the couch to the shop: would you want them to pick it up?
2) Once it got to the shop, would it just sit there with some sort of tag with your name and contact information: "call x to purchase this couch", or do you expect them to donate salesmen's time to selling it for you, instead of spending that same time selling their own merchandise?
3) If they did somehow agree to this, what about taxes? After all, the store is required to collect (and pay) taxes on purchases from their business.
Craigslist is your best bet.
posted by easily confused at 6:37 AM on October 19, 2016
They don't have any legal (or ethical) debt to you after two years. And sure, all you say you want is their floor space, but:
1) What about getting the couch to the shop: would you want them to pick it up?
2) Once it got to the shop, would it just sit there with some sort of tag with your name and contact information: "call x to purchase this couch", or do you expect them to donate salesmen's time to selling it for you, instead of spending that same time selling their own merchandise?
3) If they did somehow agree to this, what about taxes? After all, the store is required to collect (and pay) taxes on purchases from their business.
Craigslist is your best bet.
posted by easily confused at 6:37 AM on October 19, 2016
Find a furniture consignment store, preferrably one near the shop you bought it at so that the source and condition would be a big selling point for the price you want. I'm on the it's-way-too-late wagon. Also, some funky vintage clothes boutiques will consign a few nice pieces of furniture.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:27 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 8:27 AM on October 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Entertainingly, the shop has been completely sympathetic and helpful -- they might already have a customer. Couch will be sold as a lightly used couch, but it's still a much better price than Craigslist gets.
posted by clew at 2:38 PM on November 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by clew at 2:38 PM on November 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
"We have really given this piece of furniture the college try. There is something about the fabric that is different from what we tried in the showroom and is causing asthma symptoms. Would you be open to selling the couch in your showroom at floor-model prices? We have not used the couch because of the illness issue."
posted by rainbowbrite at 4:18 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]