Are my ideas around a real estate career a little too lofty?
October 18, 2016 10:26 AM   Subscribe

Yes, pun completely intended
Will real estate help be get what I want from life, will it be a good fit, or is there something else out there better for me? What am I not thinking of?

I'm 26 and recently made the long, hard decision after a brief stint of freelance that doing art for a living is just not what I want it to be. I'm at the point where I'm heavily considering a career that could lead to be design-adjacent, but will ultimately just provide me with actual income so I can start settling down.


What I want to get out of it:
  • The ultimate goal here is to find a career that will make enough money to be a Real Adult, have disposable income to continue my hobbies (travelling, design, music-making), and won't completely burn me out.
  • Be able to live comfortably with one salary. For a lot of different reasons, my partner works part-time and we'd like to keep it that way. By comfortably I mean pay all of my bills and a car payment, put some away in savings, do hobbies, and take vacation like once a year. We grew up and have lived in varying levels of poverty, so we're comfortable getting by within our means.
  • Be engaging enough to where I don't dread going to work
  • Have time for family
But wait, theres more:
My sister and I are going in together to get our licenses. Our future, long-term goals is to shift from straight up real-estate, to being focused on interior design, carpentry, remodeling, etc. A sort of home design studio. Is this impossible?


Lastly, here's some things about me to gauge fit:
  • I'm smart. I'm absolutely great at math. I am a whiz when it comes to learning things. I routinely start jobs with less training than other people. I have good deductive reasoning. I pick up on things quick
  • I'm good with people. All of my experience is in customer service, some of it leadership experience.
  • I like starting on new things frequently. I like a varied workplace. I like multitasking and logistics, the big picture.
  • I like take my work home with me sometimes. When I get started on a new project, I'm at 150%, I like to start planning right away.
  • I have a great design sense. My background in school went from architecture to graphic design. Spatial relations is a strong suit.
  • Currently I live in southeast virginia, but I'm not permanently tied. I'd be willing to relocate for something amazing, or being able to work in a better market.
posted by FirstMateKate to Work & Money (25 answers total) 3 users marked this as a favorite
 
If you want to do interior design, carpentry, remodeling, etc. why not just do that? What does the real estate license facilitate, there?

I think real estate could be a good transition job where you make enough money to not constantly be worrying about how to make ends meet and maybe save up a cushion that you could then live on as you start this remodeling business. It might even be a little bit educational in terms of housing stock in your area, how much people are willing to pay for things, etc. Or, could you do real estate part time while you get all the various qualifications you'll need to be a bonafide interior designer and home remodeler?

It also occurs to me that there are other temporary stopgap jobs that could do all of that stuff and be closer to interior design/carpentry. Working for a contractor, for example.
posted by Sara C. at 10:36 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: Not to thread-sit, but Sara C., you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. My plan is for this to be a stepping stone so I can get financially stable (out of poverty) and hopefully learn some valuable insider information while on the way to opening up a design house.

But I would also be happy doing carpentry and design off the books, so to speak. So if this is just a 9-5 that gives me the financial resources to do all that on the side, I'm open to that idea. I'm just not sure if real estate is really that... lucrative?
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:51 AM on October 18, 2016


It partially depends on your local market - if it's already saturated with realtors, it's going to be a rough ride.

It's a field that can get crushed by economic events. I had a friend that spent a bunch of time and money right before the dotcom bubble burst becoming a realtor. He never sold a single house. By the time the market picked back up, he'd moved on to other things.

It's one of those careers like car sales that some people make a lot of money doing it and many other people try and fail pretty fast without making much. There's an element of manipulation that high dollar sales rely on that some people aren't comfortable doing.
posted by Candleman at 11:03 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


I think that you should get your real estate license. I also think that you should reach out to the real estate investors' clubs in your area, because you have a lot to offer! As a realtor, you could find an investor properties for his/her portfolio. As a designer and carpenter, you could then bring tired, dated properties up to modern standards to make them more attractive to potential tenants.
posted by Ostara at 11:10 AM on October 18, 2016


From what I understand, real estate is one of those careers where 10% of the agents make 75% of the money. Which is not to say that you can't do it--a close family member did just fine as a real estate agent for many years--but that it involves a lot of networking, a lot of uncompensated time doing research, showing and marketing houses, and paychecks that are erratic at best, especially when you're just getting started--residential real estate is a seasonal business anyway, and many agents only sell a few houses a year. So I would have a VERY CLEAR idea of what you're signing up for, especially if you're hoping to only have one income. Make sure you talk to several working real estate agents in your area before committing to it.

I also wouldn't describe real estate as a 9-5 job. At this point I think most RE agents expect to respond to texts, phone messages and emails well outside of business hours, showings may be scheduled at odd hours, and you'll certainly be working on the weekends.

If you really want to do interior design and handyman work, I would focus on building that business from the get-go unless your actual goal is to remodel and flip houses, in which case I guess having an RE license would be helpful.

I feel like I'm being kind of a downer here but I also feel like RE work is one of those fields where there's not much of a barrier to entry but that only a small minority of people are actually making much of a living at it.
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 11:16 AM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


I have a friend that is an agent and my wife was thinking about doing it. She talked her out of it. It's basically 100% networking. Everybody has a friend or neighbour that is an agent. The people I know that successfully made a career out of it had a spouse's income to live on for the first year or two while they built up a network that would result in consistent leads. The 80/20 rule definitely applies, and if you put in the work you can get into the 20%. But count on a couple of lean years up front.
posted by COD at 11:31 AM on October 18, 2016 [3 favorites]


It sounds to me like a career as as a real estate agent may be a good fit for you but it might not be all you have it built up to be. I'm not a Realtor™, but basically everyone I know is or has been one and I've worked in various connected industries my whole life.

Some thoughts:
  • Customer service is a major part of the job, but it's also a sales and marketing job. These days, it's increasingly an online marketing job, which is a whole separate skillset.
  • I've seen a lot of people successfully transition from other sales jobs, like car or pharmaceutical sales, to real estate. Being able to put people in that "ready to buy" mindset is an important skill.
  • It's definitely not a simple 9-5. Successful real estate agents are workaholics and serve their clients at all hours.
  • It's often essentially a freelance gig, where you sell for yourself, under a broker, with whom you share the commission money. This means the income can be pretty "feast or famine": i.e., spend two months working to sell a property, get a five figure check when you do, and then not make another dime for two to six months. It helps to be really good at budgeting and have another income to fall back on. Sometimes people join "teams" with "guaranteed minimum income" arrangements, but these usually benefit the main broker or corporation and limit your earning potential.
  • Most people aren't successful right away. It takes time to build a clientele and learn how to be successful.
  • See if you can find a successful agent to learn from. Become invaluable to them. Take over from them when they retire.

posted by maniactown at 11:38 AM on October 18, 2016


Also, I want to laugh at your 9-5 characterization. My realtor has been on my renovation business team for a few years because he really has good hustle, but that means we're often finalizing paperwork at 10pm, seeing properties early in the morning, and dealing with crises when one or both of us are out of town/on vacation! I think you can make good money, but I don't think it's a regular hours gig.
posted by acm at 11:42 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Response by poster: Also, I want to laugh at your 9-5 characterization.

Wow, this is getting way out of hand. Please from now on ignore my one-off comment about it being a 9-5. I meant it as in the job was solely an income resource, not a creative outlet. It is a means to an end.
Please, instead, refer to my actual question where I list that I like taking my work home, and working in varied workplaces, not tied to my current location, etc.
posted by FirstMateKate at 11:53 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Our future, long-term goals is to shift from straight up real-estate, to being focused on interior design, carpentry, remodeling, etc. A sort of home design studio. Is this impossible?

Your ambitions remind me of this firm here in Phoenix. There a few other firms like this I know of that are more easily characterized as design-build contractors.

Anyway, you need to bring to market something that is in short supply. Real estate agents are abundant. Good general contractors with both design and planning skill are scarce and incredibly valuable. I don't know how you'd go about getting a contractor's license but that's the direction I'd head.
posted by mullacc at 12:09 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Why real estate specifically? I've watched enough HGTV to see why this would make sense, but do you actually have any interest in selling houses? As others have noted, it's kind of a cutthroat business, and burnout is high.

Allow me to suggest selling insurance instead. All the benefits of real estate, with fewer drawbacks. First, everyone with a mortgage, apartment lease, or car needs insurance, so you've got a nearly unlimited market. Second, insurance costs a lot less than a house, so it's easier to convince someone to buy. Third, you get commission when policies renew, so even if you go a while without making a sale, you'll still have some cash coming in from last year's sales, and the year before's, etc. A lot of agencies will do base plus commission as well, which really smoothes out the cash flow. There's also a real customer service aspect to it, which with your experience could set you apart. The process of getting your insurance license is no more onerous than getting your real estate license, and in many cases, if you get a job with an agency first, the agency will actually pay for your licensing. It's also quite common for agents to have other businesses on the side. The downside is that it's kind of dry and boring, but that's overstated IMO.

Something to consider...
posted by kevinbelt at 12:24 PM on October 18, 2016


This is pure anecdata, but I've had at least a dozen friends get their real estate licenses in the time since I graduated college about 15 years ago, with the most recent being maybe 6-9 months ago. I believe that exactly one of those people is still actively working as a real estate agent (and it's not the one who started 6 months ago). From what I gather, they mostly found it incredibly hard to make a real, consistent living. It's especailly hard in the begnning, so they needed savings (or a working partner) to pay the bills for some time. The one person who is still doing it was born a salesperson, and she seems to be doing extremely well.

So, I don't think there's necessarily harm in getting your license, but I think you need to be realistic about how much money you can make (and how soon you can make it). In my life, the pattern seems to be that my friends aren't sure what they want to do with their careers, see it as an easy way to make a decent living, and are quickly disillusioned.

Good luck with whatever path you go down.
posted by primethyme at 12:28 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Imagine this scenario: you have a retired couple as a client. They're currently renting and are willing to keep renting for as long as it takes to find the right home. For them this means as low a price and as little major repair work needed as possible. You show them houses for two years before they finally buy something, and it's a house that costs less than $200,000. Is the amount of time you spent over the last two years to make this sale financially worth it, or would it drive you crazy?

(I give this example because this is how my parents bought their current house. Their realator is a lady near retirement age who does this as a part time job and doesn't need the money to live on, so she didn't mind working for what I'm sure turned out to be a very low wage when calculated per hour of work.)
posted by MsMolly at 12:31 PM on October 18, 2016


I've had several friends who got their licenses and went into the residential real estate selling business. None of them made any real money and they have all moved on to other things. A significant consideration should be (or would be for me) that it effectively means giving up your evenings and weekends forever. You need to be available to show properties when prospective buyers are available to see them. That means evenings and weekends. The only friend I have who works in real estate, makes money and has reasonable hours is in commercial real estate, which I understand is a completely different game.
posted by slkinsey at 12:50 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm not an agent, but I know several. Count this as another opinion that you need to already have pretty solid finances in order to be an agent. I live in an extremely competitive area, real estate agent wise, and most people who do end up successful took 2-3 years at least to make enough money to actually support themselves at all.

I worked with one agent at the start of her career. She sold me a piece of land for $20k. She was a dual agent, so her share was $1200. But she had to pay her firm half (on top of desk fees) of that and drive out (1 hour out) about 3 times to meet us to see the property. And then she mailed us a $50 Starbucks gift card to thank us. So I don't know if she actually even managed to make minimum wage after all was said and done.

My primary real estate agent is quite successful, but she works very long hours and juggles a lot of balls in the air. As far as I know, she never takes vacations because that would leave her clients in the lurch. She also works with a lot of developers and flippers, who are good at quickly identifying if they want to buy a piece of property or not.

She also has to deal with making sure everything gets done on time. That means hassling the lender, the appraiser, the inspector, the buyer, the seller, and everyone else to make sure the deal closes. She starts the day by drinking coffee and looking at new listings. I don't think there's a lot of technically difficult math-y things to learn beyond the basic, but more about knowing the industry and herding cats.

So you may be able to be successful enough to support your family on one income eventually. But there is a high likelihood of burn out before you start making money, or just running out of savings before you start making money. And I don't know that you'd have time for family.
posted by ethidda at 1:37 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Why not start a house staging business? Pair up with a realtor, and stage houses that are getting ready to sell for a flat fee. There are companies that will rent you the inventory, so you don't need much capital at all. This seems like a better fit for your interests than real estate, which is hyper-competitive and winner-take-all.
posted by miyabo at 1:55 PM on October 18, 2016 [9 favorites]


Unless you're a super duper schmoozer networker non-stop hustler you might be better off forgetting the real estate license. If you like to sit open houses and kiss a lot of frogs you might make money. Go for the gold, try the real business you want to do. Work for someone else, hang drapes, stage houses.
posted by fixedgear at 2:35 PM on October 18, 2016


others have alluded to this already, but I don't think the two careers are even that compatible. There might be some angle where having your license means that if you flip houses yourself you have access to the MLS system and can make (or save, really) a piece of commission; as or more likely you'll find that you'd be better to partner with some realtor for the sales piece of the puzzle.

Sounds like your heart is really in the renovation/decorating side of things. I'd pursue that and drop real estate.

What you may not understand about real estate is that it's completely a numbers game, and while you can (and should) focus on a section of town, a price range, a demographic, etc., you do NOT make money as a realtor by getting highly involved with and spending hours on one listing or another. You are trying to pick up as many listings as you can, and trying to close as many sales as you can (and the listings and the closings are not necessarily even the same properties).

As others have said, you can make a lot of money if you work hard, but it's a growth business and not a quick path to financial independence.

As someone else also mentioned, if you have a sales mindset and just like working with people and making a lot of calls and being highly visible in the community, I think insurance is a better gig.
posted by randomkeystrike at 2:35 PM on October 18, 2016


Based on your being good at logic and design and good with people - have you considered front-end web development (like Javascript, CSS and HTML)?
posted by Lycaste at 2:56 PM on October 18, 2016


Home staging (and/or repair) might be a better fit for you. When I sold my house many years ago, my realtor brought in a home staging specialist, a gardening person to do some cleanup/updating, and a repair person to do some minor cosmetic fixes. You and your sister could do two out of those three things. Message me if you want a sheet with Qs to help you decide what to specialise in. Also, whatever you end up doing (real estate agent to design firm), prepare to network like hell. Because you'll have to befriend a shit ton of real estate types as well as landlords and home owners. But you can do that. Also, consider how hard it is for well-off renters in urban areas to improve their homes as renters. That's why ApartmentTherapy is so popular. Finally, can you go get a job with a home design firm as a step to opening your own business? If you are willing to relocate, that might be a faster way to meet your goal. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 3:01 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Based on my experience as the daughter of a realtor (in Canada) who lasted three years...yes you are looking at the wrong end of the business and your view is too lofty. Even though staging is an increasingly essential part of sales, it's so common that being a great stager is not necessarily going to sell a house. (It might nominally increase the sale price of a house, but since your commission will be 1-3% of the value of those dollars, essentially hours and hours of staging may only result in a hundred extra dollars for you.) And seeing potential in homes isn't going to necessarily help you sell them to people who can't look past the floral wallpaper.

Real estate agents, especially starter ones, deal with a lot of ugly properties, and a lot of unsavvy clients. It's all based on who you know, not just to get clients for yourself to sell houses to, but clients to buy houses you've listed, which means networking with other agents, brokers, etc. It's about being able to save a deal that's falling through by figuring out financing or negotiating different fees or supplying a contractor or working with a new developer. It also takes a long, long time to cultivate leads.

Our last house was a fixer-upper and we improved its aesthetics and would have been a fine home, but it sold when we needed it to (which was an awkward time in the market) for a big profit in part because our agent knew the right developer who was looking for a lot just our size. We got our current home because our agent was friends with the agent whose deal fell through and so we got a crack at it to spare the sellers having to go back on the market in the middle of a divorce -- just as a couple of examples. And we were buying/selling middle-class houses in a good urban market.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:26 PM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Our realtor when we recently bought our house is a former architect, and her firm provides staging and design services in addition to home buying and selling. So that's one approach to consider.
posted by research monkey at 3:32 PM on October 18, 2016


I would also go straight into the interior design/remodel thing. A reliable handyman is HARD TO FIND, and a handywoman even harder, and I bet there are a lot of women who would vastly prefer a woman coming to work on their house (because having strangers in your house, especially if you live alone, is stressful -- and I bet older women in particular would be a great market).

I will say if you are handy, one of the things I've always wanted is to be able to hire a handyperson to TEACH me to perform minor household repairs, but it's sort-of awkward to ask a handyman to teach you to do their job so you can avoid hiring them. Given the popularity of "sales parties" for things like candles and jewelry, I think there's a niche available for a handywoman who comes out to a girls' night with 8 people or whatever at someone's house, where they need a simple home improvement task performed, and teaches the assembled ladies about furnace maintenance or how to replace a faucet or how to hang a door or similar small, easy tasks, and then everyone has some wine and appetizers (provided by the host) and chats, and you charge parts and maybe a 10% discount on labor and get to give your information to all the women present and answer their questions about home improvement and then they hire you to come do all their crown molding. And you hand out promotional screwdrivers. I think there are a lot of women who'd love to learn more about home improvement in their own homes, from another woman, in a social setting among other women!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:29 PM on October 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


Gosh yes, what Eyebrows just suggested. That's a great idea!

I grew up in a construction family (everything from concrete to houses to apartment buildings to wastewater treatment... but no home plumbing or electrical) and was taught a lot of basic to intermediate stuff. I'm able to do just about everything I need – except the home plumbing and electrical. Which is good overall, you really want a knowledgeable plumber/electrician to do most stuff. But there are small things you can do.

And you can actually ask people to teach you! My plumber was more than happy to show me how to cap supply lines, how to put in a new faucet, for instance. He also recommended places for decent paint. Why? While he's fine being paid for it, it kinda bugs him to do the small stuff because he sets his prices low on those so people will remember him for bigger projects. He outright refused to paint my bathroom because he knew I could do it and the labor would be expensive for me, thus the recommendation for good paint places. (Thanks to my family background, we have fluid communication and so he knew he could straight out refuse and I'd understand, btw.)

Long story short, I've been very grateful for the tips and would have been happy to pay him for them. There are so many systemic barriers for women learning home repairs, it is a fantastic idea to offer in-home lessons. The free screwdriver is a great idea too, I mean even with my family background I'm sometimes overwhelmed at the hardware choices available now. Teach people how to choose, which tools are best for which jobs (especially quality tools of a size that can be used for a bunch of different jobs – I've had the same two Phillips and flathead screwdrivers for 15 years now), basic safety and how important it is, that would definitely be awesome.

Re: real estate I too have a lot of friends who have tried, and only one who's succeeded. She too is a born saleswoman, it's totally her thing. Note that one guy who tried it is also someone we considered a born salesman, and he burnt out on it.
posted by fraula at 1:18 AM on October 19, 2016


I agree with others that getting a real estate license and working in that field won't give much easy translation to design and remodeling. But you do sound like you have some sales chops and sales jobs are usually pretty easy to find. Here's what I recommend you pursue:

Look for a job in business to business sales (tends to avoid more scam stuff than direct sales). The growing b2b sales markets nowadays tend to be services - think things like records management / disposal (iron mountain, shred it which was just bought out by stericycle, etc), tech services, printing services, shipping services (local couriers, ups, fed ex) etc.
But one area you could focus on is trying to get a sales rep job in a business furniture company such as Hon, Teknion, Steelcase, etc or a job with WB Mason , OFfice Depot , Staples, your regional supplier in their b2b furniture division. Your primary job is sales, but often customers will listen to your product suggestions based on sounding like you know something about design and what would look good in their space.
posted by WeekendJen at 9:14 AM on October 19, 2016


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