My boyfriend doesn't like life with me and our baby.
October 14, 2016 10:48 AM Subscribe
I found out my bf has been telling a female coworker he's unhappy with me and our newborn baby. I am hurt and angry. Now what?
My bf and I had a baby 5 months ago. It hasn't exactly been smooth sailing for us. Our baby had a rough start and about 4 weeks after she was born I stopped being able to sleep completely (I asked another question about that). I've since gotten medication that helps me sleep enough to get by but overall, getting used to life with a baby has been rough on me and my bf.
Bf has been getting more and more depressed lately, for which he has recently begun to seek help. But I noticed that he has also been Whatsapping a female coworker of his more and more lately. At first I didn't think anything of it, I thought it was good that he had someone to talk to. But I saw her name popping up on his screen more and more and tonight he left for bed early and forgot his phone, and I checked it. That was wrong, but we went through a spell early on in our relationship where he was way too close to his ex which I also had to find out from sneaking a look at his phone. I found out then that he had been lying to me about how close they were and this time around I had such a deja-vu that I couldn't help myself.
Anyway, here is part of his conversation with her:
BF: I think I may be depressed or something
CW: Oh honey! Are you thinking about talking to someone? And can I do anything for you?
BF: I'm already talking to someone. And no, you can't. It's just one big clusterfuck. The baby is no fun, [my name] is no fun, and I don't like my job. But no one can solve that for me.
CW: Oh my gosh that's hard. I hope your therapist is helpful. And if there's anything I can do, even if it's just to distract you for a night, let me know. We can go out for beers or something. Or listen to music. I'm here for you.
BF: That sounds like fun.
There's a lot more banter, but this is the salient bit.
So, having read that he doesn't like me and, worse, our baby, I'm ready to set fire to everything he owns and throw it out on the lawn. But that's probably overreacting. But am I right to feel betrayed by his comments about me and baby? Should I be worried about the way he interacts with his coworker? What should I do? Please don't say couples' therapy, we don't have the financial resources to afford it on top of baby right now.
My bf and I had a baby 5 months ago. It hasn't exactly been smooth sailing for us. Our baby had a rough start and about 4 weeks after she was born I stopped being able to sleep completely (I asked another question about that). I've since gotten medication that helps me sleep enough to get by but overall, getting used to life with a baby has been rough on me and my bf.
Bf has been getting more and more depressed lately, for which he has recently begun to seek help. But I noticed that he has also been Whatsapping a female coworker of his more and more lately. At first I didn't think anything of it, I thought it was good that he had someone to talk to. But I saw her name popping up on his screen more and more and tonight he left for bed early and forgot his phone, and I checked it. That was wrong, but we went through a spell early on in our relationship where he was way too close to his ex which I also had to find out from sneaking a look at his phone. I found out then that he had been lying to me about how close they were and this time around I had such a deja-vu that I couldn't help myself.
Anyway, here is part of his conversation with her:
BF: I think I may be depressed or something
CW: Oh honey! Are you thinking about talking to someone? And can I do anything for you?
BF: I'm already talking to someone. And no, you can't. It's just one big clusterfuck. The baby is no fun, [my name] is no fun, and I don't like my job. But no one can solve that for me.
CW: Oh my gosh that's hard. I hope your therapist is helpful. And if there's anything I can do, even if it's just to distract you for a night, let me know. We can go out for beers or something. Or listen to music. I'm here for you.
BF: That sounds like fun.
There's a lot more banter, but this is the salient bit.
So, having read that he doesn't like me and, worse, our baby, I'm ready to set fire to everything he owns and throw it out on the lawn. But that's probably overreacting. But am I right to feel betrayed by his comments about me and baby? Should I be worried about the way he interacts with his coworker? What should I do? Please don't say couples' therapy, we don't have the financial resources to afford it on top of baby right now.
Best answer: That must have been hard to read, I'm sorry. As someone who is now nearly 3 years beyond the newborn baby stage, though, I'd encourage you to try to let go of the sense of betrayal. "No fun" is not the same as not loving you or not loving the baby - it just means he's not having a good time at this particular parenting juncture, which is a very common experience. (Some people love the baby stage, some people really, really don't.) Adjusting to life with a baby is really tough for a lot of people, both men and women alike, and while this is slowly being recognized for new moms it's still pretty not-talked-about in a serious way for men. You've both been through a major life upheaval and I hope you can get enough perspective to grant that he should have the right to his own complicated, sometimes-negative feelings about that upheaval.
The question really is: should he be talking to you about those feelings, or is it okay for him to be sharing that with someone else? That depends on your relationship and how well what *you* needs lines up with what *he* needs at this moment. In general I've wanted my partner to come to me first as a way to maintain and strengthen our emotional intimacy. However, there have been certain times and certain topics where having him share / unload his feelings on me just didn't work, because it just distressed me more. My husband's fear/anxiety about parenthood when I was pregnant and his feelings that he didn't really enjoy being a dad for the first few months were definitely things that I ended up telling him he couldn't share with me, because I wasn't the right person to support him. I encouraged him to talk to other, more neutral people about it and I'm glad he had those people in his life.
I think you need to do nothing right now, and give this a few days to settle in your mind. Then you can decide if you think it's worth bringing up that you know he's having a hard time, and talking with him about whether you hope he'll share those doubts/unhappy thoughts with you, or if not you, who you hope he'll talk to.
posted by iminurmefi at 11:04 AM on October 14, 2016 [38 favorites]
The question really is: should he be talking to you about those feelings, or is it okay for him to be sharing that with someone else? That depends on your relationship and how well what *you* needs lines up with what *he* needs at this moment. In general I've wanted my partner to come to me first as a way to maintain and strengthen our emotional intimacy. However, there have been certain times and certain topics where having him share / unload his feelings on me just didn't work, because it just distressed me more. My husband's fear/anxiety about parenthood when I was pregnant and his feelings that he didn't really enjoy being a dad for the first few months were definitely things that I ended up telling him he couldn't share with me, because I wasn't the right person to support him. I encouraged him to talk to other, more neutral people about it and I'm glad he had those people in his life.
I think you need to do nothing right now, and give this a few days to settle in your mind. Then you can decide if you think it's worth bringing up that you know he's having a hard time, and talking with him about whether you hope he'll share those doubts/unhappy thoughts with you, or if not you, who you hope he'll talk to.
posted by iminurmefi at 11:04 AM on October 14, 2016 [38 favorites]
Couples' therapy is for people who are already getting help individually anyway. You need to take care of you and he needs to take care of himself first.
I have decided on this approach for "spidey sense says something's not right": "Do I need to be worried about how much chatting you're doing?"
I would be angry, and I would be suspicious, but I wouldn't be striking matches just yet. Give him a few weeks for the "help" to start helping before you make any final calls on what's next.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:07 AM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have decided on this approach for "spidey sense says something's not right": "Do I need to be worried about how much chatting you're doing?"
I would be angry, and I would be suspicious, but I wouldn't be striking matches just yet. Give him a few weeks for the "help" to start helping before you make any final calls on what's next.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:07 AM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
This may not be the answer for your situation, but the answer for me was time, therapy, and antidepressants. I don't know if it's common in men or not, but I did not like life after having a kid because all of the things I did like were gone. But after some time, I started to like it more, then more, then more than I ever liked life before. The thing that time allows for is to forget what life was like before the kid; whether that was good or not, my mind focused on the fact I lost so much of that life. Once it stopped being so recent, I no longer focused on that loss.
Also, antidepressants really help sometimes. Helped me a lot. My wife tells me it took 3 years, but I'm finally back to how I was.
It wasn't fair to my wife and it isn't fair to you. But life sometimes isn't fair that way, and my wife tells me that I owe her. I agree.
posted by Pacrand at 11:07 AM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Also, antidepressants really help sometimes. Helped me a lot. My wife tells me it took 3 years, but I'm finally back to how I was.
It wasn't fair to my wife and it isn't fair to you. But life sometimes isn't fair that way, and my wife tells me that I owe her. I agree.
posted by Pacrand at 11:07 AM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I have to disagree with the previous poster that said this is normal. The comment by the boyfriend is out of line, full stop.
I don't have a kid yet so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about but, for instance, I would be really upset to read a text from my fiance complaining about me to a coworker, especially one of the sex he is attracted to. That's just not how people in committed relationships should strive to behave.
I don't have any advice but I'm sending you and your new child good wishes.
posted by loquacious crouton at 11:08 AM on October 14, 2016 [42 favorites]
I don't have a kid yet so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about but, for instance, I would be really upset to read a text from my fiance complaining about me to a coworker, especially one of the sex he is attracted to. That's just not how people in committed relationships should strive to behave.
I don't have any advice but I'm sending you and your new child good wishes.
posted by loquacious crouton at 11:08 AM on October 14, 2016 [42 favorites]
Best answer: I'm a friendly, approachable, chatty lady who has worked roles that are largely pink collar (read: paid emotional labor) office type things in offices with lots of young family'd men.
I can tell you: men whine to me about their sad little lives with their harpy wives and babies all the time. It's gross and insulting and, very sadly, common. I don't know what it is, this woe is me, the old ball and chain and my financial pithole of a family are preventing me from having my cool life of brooding bachelorhood whine whine whine thing, but there have been STAGGERINGLY FEW men I've worked with over the years who have NOT engaged in this behavior.
It doesn't make it right, not at all. But because I have no chill I just call that shit out. "Wow if your wife and baby suck that much maybe you should get a divorce and abandon them, ur life sounds rly hard omg." And then they stammer and choke and mumble shit about how no that would actually be bad. (BUT THEN THEY COME RIGHT BACK A FEW DAYS LATER AND CARP SOME MORE ABOUT THEIR SAD MANFEELS.) I just feel so sad and disgusted for their families.
I feel you and I am so sorry. I would be fucking livid if I were you. It's so disrespectful.
Anyway, as the female coworker who is often on the receiving end of this emotional onslaught, who only in very recent years has learned not to play into it, this likely has nothing to do with his relationship with his coworker and everything to do with his relationship with his own depression.
posted by phunniemee at 11:08 AM on October 14, 2016 [144 favorites]
I can tell you: men whine to me about their sad little lives with their harpy wives and babies all the time. It's gross and insulting and, very sadly, common. I don't know what it is, this woe is me, the old ball and chain and my financial pithole of a family are preventing me from having my cool life of brooding bachelorhood whine whine whine thing, but there have been STAGGERINGLY FEW men I've worked with over the years who have NOT engaged in this behavior.
It doesn't make it right, not at all. But because I have no chill I just call that shit out. "Wow if your wife and baby suck that much maybe you should get a divorce and abandon them, ur life sounds rly hard omg." And then they stammer and choke and mumble shit about how no that would actually be bad. (BUT THEN THEY COME RIGHT BACK A FEW DAYS LATER AND CARP SOME MORE ABOUT THEIR SAD MANFEELS.) I just feel so sad and disgusted for their families.
I feel you and I am so sorry. I would be fucking livid if I were you. It's so disrespectful.
Anyway, as the female coworker who is often on the receiving end of this emotional onslaught, who only in very recent years has learned not to play into it, this likely has nothing to do with his relationship with his coworker and everything to do with his relationship with his own depression.
posted by phunniemee at 11:08 AM on October 14, 2016 [144 favorites]
If this were happening to me and I found that chat, I'd be scared that he's about to cross the line into an emotional affair with the co-worker. I disagree that it is good that he has a friend to talk to. If his friend were a guy, it would be better. But saying those things behind your back is, in my book, pretty bad behavior. He needs to talk to you about it so you guys can fix it.
Call me paranoid, but her calling him "honey" and asking him out for fun beers when the girlfriend is "no fun" instead of telling him to talk to you and try to work it out, is a MAJOR red flag. She is not doing him any favors.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 11:14 AM on October 14, 2016 [58 favorites]
Call me paranoid, but her calling him "honey" and asking him out for fun beers when the girlfriend is "no fun" instead of telling him to talk to you and try to work it out, is a MAJOR red flag. She is not doing him any favors.
posted by Beethoven's Sith at 11:14 AM on October 14, 2016 [58 favorites]
I should clarify: I don't necessarily think the chat is totally innocuous, and I don't think you'd be crazy for being worried about this being a warning that he's developing a relationship (maybe just emotional, maybe more) with his female coworker. From what you've posted it's just really hard to know, since that's a back-and-forth that I can read as a close friend being caring or I could read as something more.
I do think that men who experience ambivalence about the experience of parenting (which isn't uncommon for parents of any gender) have a lot less interpersonal and institutional support and fewer places to go to work through those feelings. So to me, it's not a matter of his feelings not being inappropriate/okay, or that talking about them outside his relationship is not okay - I literally can't imagine anybody saying that to new moms who were struggling - but rather that he may not have very many outlets, and this particular one he's chosen may or may not be a dangerous one for your relationship.
Recognizing that he's struggling and that he *should* have someone he can safely talk about this stuff with needs to be the starting point. After that, you can decide how you feel about this particular person being the one he's confiding in, and whether there are things you want to do to reduce the likelihood that his sharing with her turns into something more.
posted by iminurmefi at 11:30 AM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
I do think that men who experience ambivalence about the experience of parenting (which isn't uncommon for parents of any gender) have a lot less interpersonal and institutional support and fewer places to go to work through those feelings. So to me, it's not a matter of his feelings not being inappropriate/okay, or that talking about them outside his relationship is not okay - I literally can't imagine anybody saying that to new moms who were struggling - but rather that he may not have very many outlets, and this particular one he's chosen may or may not be a dangerous one for your relationship.
Recognizing that he's struggling and that he *should* have someone he can safely talk about this stuff with needs to be the starting point. After that, you can decide how you feel about this particular person being the one he's confiding in, and whether there are things you want to do to reduce the likelihood that his sharing with her turns into something more.
posted by iminurmefi at 11:30 AM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
And if there's anything I can do, even if it's just to distract you for a night, let me know. We can go out [...] I'm here for you.
If I said that to a male friend, or if my spouse said that to a female friend, we'd each have the right to be pissed.
posted by Neekee at 11:33 AM on October 14, 2016 [30 favorites]
If I said that to a male friend, or if my spouse said that to a female friend, we'd each have the right to be pissed.
posted by Neekee at 11:33 AM on October 14, 2016 [30 favorites]
Yeah, if this was truly a platonic friendship between him and his female coworker (which, for the record, is a thing that I believe absolutely can exist), then she wouldn't call him "honey" and wouldn't be offering to "distract him for a night" -- because a true platonic friend in this situation would have the insight to know that such language would, at the least, have the potential to be read as flirtatious and thus muddy the situation. I have no idea if the two of them are indeed emotionally involved in one another, but that language raises red flags for me.
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 11:44 AM on October 14, 2016 [59 favorites]
posted by the return of the thin white sock at 11:44 AM on October 14, 2016 [59 favorites]
Serious complaining about being unhappy with your spouse to an unrelated member of the same gender is a no-no. It is setting up a line of intimacy superior to that of the marriage itself with someone with whom marriage-like relations (ahem) might take place. It's a real problem. That said, a baby's first few months are one of the most stressful periods in most parents' lives. He does need support. He's made a poor decision about seeking it with his female friend, but his judgment is probably not his best at this time. You need to let him know that this kind of conversation is not okay, but also talk about how else he can get more help if the therapist alone isn't cutting it.
posted by praemunire at 11:50 AM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 11:50 AM on October 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
I don't know, to me that exchange reads as entirely platonic. She's being sympathetic and offering help, but I don't in any way read flirting in any of that. I would totally write something similar to a male friend and mean only exactly what I wrote, nothing more.
I'm sorry you're both having a rough time. It sounds, though, like you are doing things to address it: medication, therapy. Please give yourself credit for all the RIGHT things you are both doing right now. Hang in there.
posted by megancita at 11:50 AM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
I'm sorry you're both having a rough time. It sounds, though, like you are doing things to address it: medication, therapy. Please give yourself credit for all the RIGHT things you are both doing right now. Hang in there.
posted by megancita at 11:50 AM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
I don't address opposite sex people as honey (unless they are under 6 years old) or invite them out to nighttime drinks unless I intend to make out with them at least. I think the co-worker is looking for a flirtation.
I'm sympathetic to your bf though, I mean... those months are hard. They're so hard. Admitting that they're hard and that one is fantasizing about something else isn't out of line. But taking those feelings to a flirty co-worker is asking for trouble. He should take those feelings to his therapist or his guy friends. Not a woman he sees every day who wants to "distract him for a night." God.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:54 AM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm sympathetic to your bf though, I mean... those months are hard. They're so hard. Admitting that they're hard and that one is fantasizing about something else isn't out of line. But taking those feelings to a flirty co-worker is asking for trouble. He should take those feelings to his therapist or his guy friends. Not a woman he sees every day who wants to "distract him for a night." God.
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:54 AM on October 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
I hope that he's taking his depression treatment very seriously and doing everything he can to connect to you and the baby despite the depression. For him to redirect all of his emotional energy toward feeling sorry for himself and how his life is "no fun" anymore is very juvenile and selfish. You just made a human being with your body and both you and the baby went through a medical crisis shortly after the baby's birth. All of his energy, even restricted by depression and the challenges of parenthood, should be directed toward supporting you and the baby and being forthright about how he knows that he's at a deficit right now and is doing his best at depression treatment. He needs to step-up his depression treatment and it's fine for you to ask him to do that. He's an adult man with responsibilities and he needs to act like it, even if he's being hamstrung by depression.
My own litmus test for my partner's friendships are: does he talk about them openly with me? have I been invited to hang out with them together (not every time, but at least enough for me to be more than a theoretical, face-less partner?) will my partner call or text friend in front of me or are they trying to hide the communications? are they giving emotional energy to the friendship at the expense of meeting my emotional needs? are they overly intimate with friend in a way that mirrors our relationship? do they share very personal information about me or complain about me to friend? I have no problems with my partner seeking support and camaraderie with friends regardless of gender, but I do need my partner to do it in a way that respects me and my needs and doesn't undermine our relationship.
posted by quince at 11:56 AM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
My own litmus test for my partner's friendships are: does he talk about them openly with me? have I been invited to hang out with them together (not every time, but at least enough for me to be more than a theoretical, face-less partner?) will my partner call or text friend in front of me or are they trying to hide the communications? are they giving emotional energy to the friendship at the expense of meeting my emotional needs? are they overly intimate with friend in a way that mirrors our relationship? do they share very personal information about me or complain about me to friend? I have no problems with my partner seeking support and camaraderie with friends regardless of gender, but I do need my partner to do it in a way that respects me and my needs and doesn't undermine our relationship.
posted by quince at 11:56 AM on October 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Being a new parent is incredibly stressful. It's a huge adjustment and it upends your life in ways that you couldn't even imagine. Could it be possible that your boyfriend knows that you're struggling, too, and he just didn't want to burden you with his own feelings of depression?
So, he reached out to a co-worker for support instead. The way that she responded wasn't entirely appropriate. The offer to "distract him for a night" is particularly out of line. But I'd go easy on your boyfriend because he didn't steer the conversation in that direction. I wouldn't take the comments about you and the baby to mean that he doesn't love your both dearly. There's that old saying about parenting: "The days are long but the years are short." Sometimes when you're sleep-deprived and sad and grieving for your old lifestyle, it's easy to wallow a bit. It sounds like he's wallowing. Yes, it's kind of immature. And yes, it's not a productive use of his emotional bandwidth.
If you have any relatives that could watch the baby while the two of you go out for a few hours, that would be ideal. You need to reconnect and spend time with each other. He needs to be supportive of you, dial back the co-worker texts, and get serious help for his depression. It gets better. Hang in there.
posted by Ostara at 12:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
So, he reached out to a co-worker for support instead. The way that she responded wasn't entirely appropriate. The offer to "distract him for a night" is particularly out of line. But I'd go easy on your boyfriend because he didn't steer the conversation in that direction. I wouldn't take the comments about you and the baby to mean that he doesn't love your both dearly. There's that old saying about parenting: "The days are long but the years are short." Sometimes when you're sleep-deprived and sad and grieving for your old lifestyle, it's easy to wallow a bit. It sounds like he's wallowing. Yes, it's kind of immature. And yes, it's not a productive use of his emotional bandwidth.
If you have any relatives that could watch the baby while the two of you go out for a few hours, that would be ideal. You need to reconnect and spend time with each other. He needs to be supportive of you, dial back the co-worker texts, and get serious help for his depression. It gets better. Hang in there.
posted by Ostara at 12:04 PM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's common for new parents to be unhappy with their family situation from time to time. I remember being freaked out by all the "be prepared for the first year of parenting to be really rough on your relationship" warnings. And it's good to have a safe place to vent those feelings, because it's completely counterproductive to tell your partner you can't stand them right now, or whatever. I've heard lots of "ugh my partner" from people who have really loving relationships.
However, the venting I've heard has been within new parents' groups and the like - spaces that are set up to be supportive, and full of like-minded people. Some personal subjects are best talked about with other people who've been through the same thing and get it. I don't get the sense that your boyfriend's friendship with his coworker involves that sort of mutual understanding.
What he said about you is not necessarily a warning sign. Talking about it with a coworker who then offers to take him out might be.
posted by Metroid Baby at 12:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
However, the venting I've heard has been within new parents' groups and the like - spaces that are set up to be supportive, and full of like-minded people. Some personal subjects are best talked about with other people who've been through the same thing and get it. I don't get the sense that your boyfriend's friendship with his coworker involves that sort of mutual understanding.
What he said about you is not necessarily a warning sign. Talking about it with a coworker who then offers to take him out might be.
posted by Metroid Baby at 12:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Her response sounded very much like the Group Mom response to me. She isn't calling him honey, she's using it as a sympathetic interjection to his mention of depression. And her first question is asking if he's getting help or needs anything.
I understand that "distract him for a night" can have all kinds of insinuations. But as a friend, it's really one of the few appropriate offers she can give him. She shouldn't be the one he talks to, or the one he looks to for support. And maybe it's parsing specifics, but drinks is code for "create excuses to make bad decisions" while beer is carb heavy and platonic and the masculine alternative to tub of ice cream.
It's not great that he isn't working on building his relationship with your or your child. But it sounds like this bout of depression was triggered by the stressors of fatherhood. And I can empathize with the fact that sharing it with you would be unkind, and feel destructive to your relationship. So hopefully therapy will help him sort out how to manage his feelings, so he can engage in a healthier relationship with you and your child.
posted by politikitty at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
I understand that "distract him for a night" can have all kinds of insinuations. But as a friend, it's really one of the few appropriate offers she can give him. She shouldn't be the one he talks to, or the one he looks to for support. And maybe it's parsing specifics, but drinks is code for "create excuses to make bad decisions" while beer is carb heavy and platonic and the masculine alternative to tub of ice cream.
It's not great that he isn't working on building his relationship with your or your child. But it sounds like this bout of depression was triggered by the stressors of fatherhood. And I can empathize with the fact that sharing it with you would be unkind, and feel destructive to your relationship. So hopefully therapy will help him sort out how to manage his feelings, so he can engage in a healthier relationship with you and your child.
posted by politikitty at 12:23 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
Having a new child is a tremendously disruptive experience, not only to your way of life but also to your mental health. We talk a lot about the impact to women, but not enough about the impact to men. Depression rates increase 68% for fathers in the first five years after a child is born, and 1 in 4 new fathers will experience depression, particularly during the first six months when all of this is combined with an acute lack of sleep. For many, it will be severe enough to consider suicide.
And as a society, we do almost nothing to support them. Men aren't supposed to talk about their emotions, or that things are hard for them. If you want to know why, just look at some of the comments in this thread ("sad manfeels") to see how people respond. And, certainly right after birth, they can't place an additional emotional burden upon their partner, who is likely struggling, too.
Babies aren't fun. Frankly, neither are the parents of newborns. Given that you've been struggling so much you needed medication just to be able to sleep, I can't imagine you'd argue with that. Combine that with unhappiness at the job, when he's now responsible for providing for another human, and that's a pretty shitty combination for anyone to go through all at once.
You're bothered by her response? She offered to buy him a beer and give him someone to talk to. As simple an act as it is, it's an amazingly nice thing for a person to do when they know someone is struggling.
You're sleep deprived. You're an emotional wreck. Your life just got turned upside down. You're overreacting.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 12:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
And as a society, we do almost nothing to support them. Men aren't supposed to talk about their emotions, or that things are hard for them. If you want to know why, just look at some of the comments in this thread ("sad manfeels") to see how people respond. And, certainly right after birth, they can't place an additional emotional burden upon their partner, who is likely struggling, too.
Babies aren't fun. Frankly, neither are the parents of newborns. Given that you've been struggling so much you needed medication just to be able to sleep, I can't imagine you'd argue with that. Combine that with unhappiness at the job, when he's now responsible for providing for another human, and that's a pretty shitty combination for anyone to go through all at once.
You're bothered by her response? She offered to buy him a beer and give him someone to talk to. As simple an act as it is, it's an amazingly nice thing for a person to do when they know someone is struggling.
You're sleep deprived. You're an emotional wreck. Your life just got turned upside down. You're overreacting.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 12:28 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
Echoing everyone above: new babies are haaaaard.
He sounds like he's venting but her response needed better boundaries.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
He sounds like he's venting but her response needed better boundaries.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:42 PM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Your bf is having an emotional affair with this woman. Hopefully it won't go further than that. Get yourself together, give him distance, focus on good things and make sure you are financially safe. Don't obsess with everything, things can get worse or he may just vent and find his way back. Drop expectations from this guy. Once again, focus on yourself (and the kid)
posted by metajim at 1:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by metajim at 1:06 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think you absolutely need to talk to someone directly about how you feel about this. There are a lot of opinions and advice above, and it may be that he's a devoted bf or a sketchy asshole or probably bit o' both, but ultimately what's important is that you need a safe space to work through your feelings.
posted by disconnect at 1:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by disconnect at 1:07 PM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ugh, you're not an "emotional wreck." This is a very measured question. It's cogent, it's clear, you're not acting overemotional. You aren't overreacting. This situation is terrible.
Do you have a therapist? Do you have time to do things to care for yourself? Sounds like maybe not. I know this is very difficult with the baby but I encourage you to do one thing a day - one thing - that is for you. Sometimes all it will be is a hot shower, but if your boyfriend has time to whatsapp with a colleague who is offering to take him out for a drink and to vent to (wholly inappropriate honestly given the dynamic here, whether her intent is to be friendly and care for him is not even part of the equation given the context), he has time to watch the little one while you take a twenty minute bath.
You two should be in this together. He should be supporting you and you should be supporting him. Going outside of the relationship for that support is really not cool, unless it's to a truly neutral third party. She is not a truly neutral third party.
Take care of yourself. This is a very hard time.
posted by sockermom at 1:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
Do you have a therapist? Do you have time to do things to care for yourself? Sounds like maybe not. I know this is very difficult with the baby but I encourage you to do one thing a day - one thing - that is for you. Sometimes all it will be is a hot shower, but if your boyfriend has time to whatsapp with a colleague who is offering to take him out for a drink and to vent to (wholly inappropriate honestly given the dynamic here, whether her intent is to be friendly and care for him is not even part of the equation given the context), he has time to watch the little one while you take a twenty minute bath.
You two should be in this together. He should be supporting you and you should be supporting him. Going outside of the relationship for that support is really not cool, unless it's to a truly neutral third party. She is not a truly neutral third party.
Take care of yourself. This is a very hard time.
posted by sockermom at 1:09 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
I've been the female coworker in this scenario like phunamiee above many times. Now I just say gtfo up front but in the past I did try to listen to men whining because I dunno, I thought we were friends or something. However, without exception every single one of those men then made a move. No matter how mom-like or friend-like I acted they still made a move. So now I don't listen to shit, I always found it a bit pathetic but now I have a visceral reaction of "nope".
Fwiw, I never had any interest in any of these men romantically at all. And even if I'd thought someone was cute the whining and woe-is-me bullshit is so unattractive it would have negated it in a heartbeat. I never in a million years wild have offered to distract them for a night out. Maybe lunch during a work day at the MOST. And that's for a guy I genuinely like who really is having a hard time and wants to talk to a friend. I'd be concerned here. Not burn the house down concerned but not happy either.
posted by fshgrl at 2:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
Fwiw, I never had any interest in any of these men romantically at all. And even if I'd thought someone was cute the whining and woe-is-me bullshit is so unattractive it would have negated it in a heartbeat. I never in a million years wild have offered to distract them for a night out. Maybe lunch during a work day at the MOST. And that's for a guy I genuinely like who really is having a hard time and wants to talk to a friend. I'd be concerned here. Not burn the house down concerned but not happy either.
posted by fshgrl at 2:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [11 favorites]
Such great advice so far. I would also suggest getting s babysitter for an evening and going out with your boyfriend to spend time just with each other. Sometimes a reminder of why you liked your partner enough to have a baby with them is necessary when things are particularly stressful.
posted by cecic at 2:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cecic at 2:16 PM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would tell him you saw it, and tell him exactly how you're feeling. Even though he's depressed, even though it might well mean you end up arguing over why you were looking at his phone in the first place. If you try to deal with this without telling him you saw it, then either you'll end up flitting around him trying to make his life more 'fun' and stamping down your own needs and feelings in the process, or you'll shove all this hurt somewhere in your subconscious where it'll fester and grow. Drag it out into the sunlight and talk, and don't do yourself the disservice of thinking that your feelings matter less than his.
posted by Catseye at 2:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Catseye at 2:44 PM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
Preface: gay dad of three.
Breathe deep before you take any actions. You have a very young child. That's difficult. That's emotional. That affects people very differently, even parents of the same child. There's no rule or pattern to human emotion that can be forced to one's will.
That said, it's not gross or insulting to "whine" about difficulties in one's life, regardless of gender, marital status, or age/number/existence of children. The comment above that suggests so leaves out that this information was itself gained through actions that can be described as betrayal. This instance, were both parties working with the same knowledge, might end up with both of you writing an Ask on the verge of burning the other's clothes.
I can't be a judge of what kind of contact is "too close," that's personal. If it's too close for you, then bring it up, admit how you know about it, and accept that he might be upset with you, too. It's ok. Start from that point, have a conversation.
Anecdotally, I have sometimes hated my husband, and my kids, for things they've said and done. Those feelings pass. They do. They pass a little better, if not a little faster, when we talk about them openly with one another. They would not pass at all if I burned their shit every time I felt that way.
Really doesn't help to call someone's feelings "sadmanfeels," btw. My kids have two dads, and I guess that means we have double the "sadmanfeels," but I hope we can all agree it's better to just call those things "human feelings."
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
Breathe deep before you take any actions. You have a very young child. That's difficult. That's emotional. That affects people very differently, even parents of the same child. There's no rule or pattern to human emotion that can be forced to one's will.
That said, it's not gross or insulting to "whine" about difficulties in one's life, regardless of gender, marital status, or age/number/existence of children. The comment above that suggests so leaves out that this information was itself gained through actions that can be described as betrayal. This instance, were both parties working with the same knowledge, might end up with both of you writing an Ask on the verge of burning the other's clothes.
I can't be a judge of what kind of contact is "too close," that's personal. If it's too close for you, then bring it up, admit how you know about it, and accept that he might be upset with you, too. It's ok. Start from that point, have a conversation.
Anecdotally, I have sometimes hated my husband, and my kids, for things they've said and done. Those feelings pass. They do. They pass a little better, if not a little faster, when we talk about them openly with one another. They would not pass at all if I burned their shit every time I felt that way.
Really doesn't help to call someone's feelings "sadmanfeels," btw. My kids have two dads, and I guess that means we have double the "sadmanfeels," but I hope we can all agree it's better to just call those things "human feelings."
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:52 PM on October 14, 2016 [14 favorites]
It's a pattern though, women hear it al the time. "My wife doesn't understand me and she's so wrapped up in the kids. But you seem cool! You are fun and all your attention is on me!!"
There are two issues here, one that he's stressed and unhappy and two, that he's acting on one of the most common and cliche ways to cheat. Talk to a male friend or a counselor or a parent or sibling. Talk to an advice line or your doctor. Talk to a female friend who is not willing to keep your conversation a secret. Don't find a new woman who pays you all the attention your wife did before you had kids and "fall for her".
posted by fshgrl at 3:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
There are two issues here, one that he's stressed and unhappy and two, that he's acting on one of the most common and cliche ways to cheat. Talk to a male friend or a counselor or a parent or sibling. Talk to an advice line or your doctor. Talk to a female friend who is not willing to keep your conversation a secret. Don't find a new woman who pays you all the attention your wife did before you had kids and "fall for her".
posted by fshgrl at 3:14 PM on October 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
I'm not going to get into the appropriatesness of their relationship but i can tell you as a dude with a young kid it is hard to find someone that will listen when you're feeling overwhelmed. I don't lay it on my wife because i know that she is often overwhelmed herself.
It typically spills out to coworkers. my comments are met with crickets in my male-dominated profession- even though they all have (older) children. One particularly frustrating time i said something offhand at the end of a casual meeting that led to someone complaining to my boss (who was in the meeting) who then 'talked to me' about it. that's when i realized that i wasn't going to find support at my particular office.
emotional support is really hard for new dads to find.
posted by noloveforned at 6:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
It typically spills out to coworkers. my comments are met with crickets in my male-dominated profession- even though they all have (older) children. One particularly frustrating time i said something offhand at the end of a casual meeting that led to someone complaining to my boss (who was in the meeting) who then 'talked to me' about it. that's when i realized that i wasn't going to find support at my particular office.
emotional support is really hard for new dads to find.
posted by noloveforned at 6:41 PM on October 14, 2016 [10 favorites]
I'm not sure your bf is necessarily doing anything wrong based on just that text. I've never had a baby, but I've read that parents of young children tend to be pretty unhappy compared to people without babies. (Why would people have babies? Parents tend to be happier when their kids get older than people without kids, at least according the study I read.) So I think it's probably normal for him to feel overwhelmed and stressed about it.
That said, the co-worker may be flirting with him or not setting the right boundaries. Who knows, it could be entirely platonic. But "Oh honey" and "I'm here for you" strikes me as a bit much for someone who is a co-worker and not a best friend or romantic interest. It doesn't sound to be like your boyfriend is seeking out to do anything wrong, but he is venting to someone who is clearly willing to listen and just trying to get away from the stressors briefly. Maybe there is a way you can try to communicate more or find a babysitter and relax every now and then. But I also suspect that when you have a baby, everything is all about the baby for a while.
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
That said, the co-worker may be flirting with him or not setting the right boundaries. Who knows, it could be entirely platonic. But "Oh honey" and "I'm here for you" strikes me as a bit much for someone who is a co-worker and not a best friend or romantic interest. It doesn't sound to be like your boyfriend is seeking out to do anything wrong, but he is venting to someone who is clearly willing to listen and just trying to get away from the stressors briefly. Maybe there is a way you can try to communicate more or find a babysitter and relax every now and then. But I also suspect that when you have a baby, everything is all about the baby for a while.
posted by AppleTurnover at 10:13 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Best answer: So, I have a small child (he's three), and I've been the female friend listening to male friends who are having a hard time. I've been in this position on both sides, so I get how this is going to be a hurtful thing for you to read.
That said, I think your partner has made a really solid decision in not burdening you with his dissatisfaction. I was terribly lonely and felt really isolated after the birth of our son, and I don't think I *could* have been able to be supportive of my partner if he'd had a similar issue. It really looks to me like your partner has put a priority on your mental health, and is trying to talk it out with his friends.
That whole conversation is absolutely something I would have written to a platonic friend I had no intention of seducing. Even the "honey" strikes me as a sympathetic response, not a romantic one, and the fact she immediately asks if he's seeing a therapist tells me that she's looking out for his health. Going out for beers is a way they can talk about this away from work in a neutral place - she hasn't invited him over to her place, which is telling as far as I can see.
This is really a case of "dumping out" - he's passing the hard time he's having away from someone who also needs support, ie, you.
I think you do need to talk about how he's feeling - but just as much in a context of you supporting him, as you cutting off a potential affair. As was mentioned upthread there's not a lot of support for new fathers, so bear that in mind when you talk about this. By telling him he can't talk to her about this you may be severing an important line of support.
posted by Jilder at 1:39 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
That said, I think your partner has made a really solid decision in not burdening you with his dissatisfaction. I was terribly lonely and felt really isolated after the birth of our son, and I don't think I *could* have been able to be supportive of my partner if he'd had a similar issue. It really looks to me like your partner has put a priority on your mental health, and is trying to talk it out with his friends.
That whole conversation is absolutely something I would have written to a platonic friend I had no intention of seducing. Even the "honey" strikes me as a sympathetic response, not a romantic one, and the fact she immediately asks if he's seeing a therapist tells me that she's looking out for his health. Going out for beers is a way they can talk about this away from work in a neutral place - she hasn't invited him over to her place, which is telling as far as I can see.
This is really a case of "dumping out" - he's passing the hard time he's having away from someone who also needs support, ie, you.
I think you do need to talk about how he's feeling - but just as much in a context of you supporting him, as you cutting off a potential affair. As was mentioned upthread there's not a lot of support for new fathers, so bear that in mind when you talk about this. By telling him he can't talk to her about this you may be severing an important line of support.
posted by Jilder at 1:39 AM on October 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Pardon my Dutch but where the fuck is your support system?
My two best friends in this life are single moms who also realized that their partners were never going to step up and that was hell for them. You know how I met them? Owl-eyed in the park at dawn on a Sunday morning catatonically pushing babys in the swings and about to keel over. We ignored each other. We had enough energy to nod. All alone together. One of them had twins and when I noticed the other one asleep in the stroller, all I could say to her was "Two? How often do they sleep at the same time?" and she looked at me like a headlit deer and said "Never." Other mom pipes up with "Do you need me to get the guns out of your house?" It was the first time any of us had laughed in weeks. One of them had enough coffee to share and I had cookies and it was just so good to be not at home, not at work, not in a place where one couldn't help but doubt, talking to strangers.
A month later I'm telling them "I don't think his mom is up to this and I am really terrified. She's there but she's not and I just... I don't think...She doesn't...She can't...I was so wrong...How did I think this was going to work? Ugh." That's not exact but it's pretty close. Hardest thing I ever said. It opened gates for my friends. We had a lot in common. If they were answering this question, they'd tell you to start planning how you are going to manage this on your own. If each of us had struck when it first occurred to us things would be so much better for our kids now.
I hope that's not your lot. You can waste a bunch of time ruminating. You really don't have that.
You need to find other parents to talk to and stop wishing bf was more into the situation. I hope he gets into it. I really do. All you can fix is you. Stop waiting.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 3:56 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
My two best friends in this life are single moms who also realized that their partners were never going to step up and that was hell for them. You know how I met them? Owl-eyed in the park at dawn on a Sunday morning catatonically pushing babys in the swings and about to keel over. We ignored each other. We had enough energy to nod. All alone together. One of them had twins and when I noticed the other one asleep in the stroller, all I could say to her was "Two? How often do they sleep at the same time?" and she looked at me like a headlit deer and said "Never." Other mom pipes up with "Do you need me to get the guns out of your house?" It was the first time any of us had laughed in weeks. One of them had enough coffee to share and I had cookies and it was just so good to be not at home, not at work, not in a place where one couldn't help but doubt, talking to strangers.
A month later I'm telling them "I don't think his mom is up to this and I am really terrified. She's there but she's not and I just... I don't think...She doesn't...She can't...I was so wrong...How did I think this was going to work? Ugh." That's not exact but it's pretty close. Hardest thing I ever said. It opened gates for my friends. We had a lot in common. If they were answering this question, they'd tell you to start planning how you are going to manage this on your own. If each of us had struck when it first occurred to us things would be so much better for our kids now.
I hope that's not your lot. You can waste a bunch of time ruminating. You really don't have that.
You need to find other parents to talk to and stop wishing bf was more into the situation. I hope he gets into it. I really do. All you can fix is you. Stop waiting.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 3:56 AM on October 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
The only part that worries me about that exchange was her suggesting they drink and/or listen to music together to cheer him up. A platonic friend, when hearing about her friend's marital issues, could totally suggest coffee or lunch or a phone call without seeming skeezy. But drinking and listening to music (which implies time spent alone together at her house) seems like an invitation to more than a platonic "cheer up" hang-out.
posted by egeanin at 12:13 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by egeanin at 12:13 PM on October 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
Truth: babies are fucking hard on relationships. It wasn't until around 14 months that we got better at communicating to each other and got better at sharing the load. Memail if you need a friendly ear or want to hear the rough stuff.
Do *you* have someone to talk to? I had PPA (post partum anxiety) that went undiagnosed and it definitely didn't help our relationship. We both had a lot of growing up to do. Going to regular La Leche League meetings and joining the KellyMom Breastfeeding Support Group on Facebook helped - free, with ladies and babies of many ages who have gone through similar stuff.
Babies are really hard. I think my kid's 2nd birthday was when I finally felt like my head was out of the water for the most part.
posted by jillithd at 11:32 AM on October 17, 2016
Do *you* have someone to talk to? I had PPA (post partum anxiety) that went undiagnosed and it definitely didn't help our relationship. We both had a lot of growing up to do. Going to regular La Leche League meetings and joining the KellyMom Breastfeeding Support Group on Facebook helped - free, with ladies and babies of many ages who have gone through similar stuff.
Babies are really hard. I think my kid's 2nd birthday was when I finally felt like my head was out of the water for the most part.
posted by jillithd at 11:32 AM on October 17, 2016
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posted by radioamy at 11:02 AM on October 14, 2016 [6 favorites]