Computer for Luddite

January 3, 2006 8:55 PM

What with the Windows Metafile problem, I'm thinking it's time to get my Mom a new computer. The thing is, she's very resistant to high-tech, and the simpler the better... what can I get her?

She needs something she can write documents on, email on, and surf the web to visit sites like Amazon.com to shop. She has a dial-up provider and they also offer DSL but she hasn't made that switch yet, but I think we may do it.

She needs a very, very simple-to-use machine; she's not stupid, but she's easily intimidated and she's over 70. It doesn't need to be fast, it doesn't need a ton of memory, it doesn't need to run games, do music, play videos, anything like that... but it needs to be stable (not crashing, not needing lots of patches, virus-safe, not easily screwed up if you delete the wrong thing, and fixable if something does happen), and simple (no bells and whistles, not tons of programs and attachments and things it offers to do. Just bare-bones internet, email, and word-processing) A screen or desktop with large, easy-to-read print and icons is needed.
It also needs to be inexpensive, which lets out Apple products; the Macs are nice, but they do waaaay more than she needs; I would have to delete or hide most of the features to keep her from being intimidated, and it seems foolish to pay so much money for stuff she will never use. Also if I spend too much on it, she won't even let me give it to her.

Any suggestions?

posted by Rubber Soul to computers & internet (43 comments total)

Used Macs of vintages young enough to run Tiger are available for less than $500.

(Link goes to an eBay auction for a 15" iLamp iMac G4 for future archival searches)
posted by tomierna at 9:02 PM on January 3, 2006

If even a Mac Mini is overpriced, then you're pretty much stuck at Wal*Mart PCs. Admittedly these might be just the trick in this case, since they run Lindows (now known as Linspire) and are designed for the lowest common denominator.

$219.84.
posted by wackybrit at 9:03 PM on January 3, 2006

I'd say Ubuntu, as long as you'll spend a little time to smooth off a few of the rougher edges - things like installing flash and the mp3 codecs (yes, I know you've specified simple, but if she does wander off to a flash-enabled website which complains, you'll probably hear about it), and setting up the email client.

The interface is nice and simple, not at all intimidating, it includes an office suite, browser and email app.
posted by pompomtom at 9:04 PM on January 3, 2006

It also needs to be inexpensive, which lets out Apple products

Why? Apples are not really more expensive than Dells, when you start to factor in useful features, like reliability, or a warranty.

If she already has a keyboard and monitor from an older machine, an Apple Mac Mini is less expensive than a comparable Dell (or HP, Gateway, etc.).

A Mac Mini will let her write documents, email her friends and family, and surf Amazon.com. Macs come with a modem and Ethernet port, and therefore will work fine with either dial-up or DSL.
posted by Rothko at 9:06 PM on January 3, 2006

The key thing about 'less expensive than a comparable Dell' is that a comparable Dell isn't the low end of Dells. Not that I'm sayin they're better, just sayin...

I'd really recommend getting a used Pentium 3 (should only be a couple hundred at most), make sure the HD is in good shape, put Windows on it if you're used to that, or something like Ubuntu if you're not. A used P3 that was a quality machine 6 years ago is going to be a hell of a lot better than a $300 machine now. Trust me.
posted by devilsbrigade at 9:15 PM on January 3, 2006

I know you said Macs were expensive, but the eMacs are in the $500-600 range if you get refurbs. If you already know that, I'm sorry for the derail but it reallly hits a lot of your bullet points otherwise.

My 73 year old landlady just got one of them last year. If your Mom doesn't need or want a laptop it's a good choice. It has a big screen and you can set it up to be pretty high contrast with low resolution and big fonts. It's easy to get online and it has all the basic applications on it. I made the dock really large and added the programs she uses (mail, IE/Firefox, iTunes, Word or Works, iPhoto, Preferences) and she never goes anyplace else to run programs, so it's not daunting. She's been unable to break it AND been able to back herself out of most things that go weird for her. The only thing it really needed was someone to install programs for listening to real audio streams and windows media, and changing a few settings on the browsers so they would download programs on to the desktop instead of hiding them someplace.
posted by jessamyn at 9:16 PM on January 3, 2006

My dog, don't get her an eMac. (Recent, topical, self-link - despite the URL)
posted by tomierna at 9:21 PM on January 3, 2006

a comparable Dell isn't the low end of Dells

Dell's website would say otherwise. At the $400-500 price point, you're getting their low-end product.
posted by Rothko at 9:23 PM on January 3, 2006

Get her the Nokia 770 Internet Appliance.
posted by evariste at 9:37 PM on January 3, 2006

Why? Apples are not really more expensive than Dells, when you start to factor in useful features, like reliability, or a warranty.

And Dells are cheap now?

I got my mom a used PC that could run XP for a whole $64. It had a CPU faster then the one in a $500 mac mini.
posted by delmoi at 9:39 PM on January 3, 2006

You can definitely setup Linux to use to surf the web and write documents using Firefox and Open Office. You don't need to give her root access, just a regular user account. If you don't feel like you can handle that, I guess get her a Mac, though.
posted by delmoi at 9:43 PM on January 3, 2006

How much is too much, by the way?
posted by delmoi at 9:45 PM on January 3, 2006

The Google Cube sounds about right, but it seems to be more myth than reality.
posted by caddis at 9:46 PM on January 3, 2006

You get what you pay for.
posted by Rothko at 9:48 PM on January 3, 2006

here are some PCs in the $50 price range on price watch, OS free. You can install Linux and be good to go. Of course that's not for everyone, but it's not that hard either.
posted by delmoi at 9:48 PM on January 3, 2006

I would say that for getting a 70 years old lady out of Windows, a Mac would be the way to go. Very easy to use, low maintenance for you, etc.

If the price is above your budget, I would try a modern Linux distro, customized to look like Windows. In the end, it is just a matter of making the icons for the six or seven programs she will use very visible. But do not expect any modern Linux to run acceptably in this scenario with a low end machine. Go for enough RAM, specially, to support OpenOffice, Firefox and Thunderbird concurrently.
posted by nkyad at 9:48 PM on January 3, 2006

It sounds like your mom is already doing fine with what she's got. Why reinvent the wheel because of this wmf hooha? Backup any of her important data now and again, add the appropriate protective measures on what she's using, and let her keep doing what she's doing.

If she were looking to dive fresh into computers then yes, macs are far more friendly and usable. They are, despite what the fanboys say, more expensive -- and unless the cost premium is worth the increased usability to you, you won't get your money's worth (with respect to the rationalizations regarding warranties, reliability, and the rest). I mean seriously, a mini? You can get a PC that does the stuff you need for under a hundred bucks. That's practically throwaway money in gadget terms.
posted by drpynchon at 9:48 PM on January 3, 2006

Hmm... Of course, if she already has a PC you could run Linux on that. I mean obviously suggesting a dual boot system for an older lady sounds ridiculous. But it's a possibility. You should be able to transfer her files over. That wouldn't cost you anything.

here is a PC world article describing just your situation
posted by delmoi at 9:54 PM on January 3, 2006

Rothko: Dell has systems for $300. A Dell system comperable to a Mini would be significantly more expensive than the Mini (cheaper Dells may be faster, but use shitty components that'll break after a month or so), but Dell does have cheaper options than Apple does. That was my only point.
posted by devilsbrigade at 9:54 PM on January 3, 2006

You say "new computer". If the case is that your Mom already has the hardware, I'd recommend Linux, because it's free. Ubuntu (a Linux distribution - there are many variants of Linux) will ship you CDs for free (so no downloading), as well as "Live CDs" so she can try out the operating system before you install it. It's also rock solid with regards to crashing etc.

If not, I'd say a second hand Mac.
posted by djgh at 10:10 PM on January 3, 2006

if your time doesn't cost you anything (or if you just wanna tinker anyway, or if you're already good with Linux), then find an older P3 or P4 (even the old P4 desktops are cheap now) or so and put Linux on it. run ubuntu or even slackware and set her up a desktop with only icons and stuff to do what she wants to do with it. (maybe use windowmaker or blackbox instead of KDE or Gnome or something, possibly - with something like windowmaker you kinda have a dock on the side there and other than that it really doesn't put a whole lot of visual stuff on the desktop.) if you don't wanna fiddle with it, find a Mac mini or so (you should be able to get a last-gen Mac mini - they've been bumped once - for under the $499 the base model costs, or you could do an older tower/iMac G4 too) and just take the icons out of the dock. either way you can set up something that'll give her easy access to what she wants.
posted by mrg at 10:13 PM on January 3, 2006

(cheaper Dells may be faster, but use shitty components that'll break after a month or so)

Break after a month? Other then hard drives, the vast, overwhelming amount of computer hardware will either not work at all, or work 'forever'. Yes, there are exceptions (bad caps, for example) but those exceptions don't have much to do with the price of the component. Apple has it's share of bad hardware runs.

What kind of components are you talking about that are going to break so quickly in a dell?
posted by delmoi at 10:15 PM on January 3, 2006

Cost-wise, I think if I go over about $300-$350, she will be too concerned about the cost and won't want to use it. In the past I've just hand-me-down'd her my PCs every several years when I've upgraded.

The problem is, her current system is running Windows 98 and that's all it can handle, so the WMF is a problem; there's no patch. And anyway, slowly but surely, the internet is getting too big for the old machine; already there are sites (like Land's End catalogue) which are too heavy for her machine to load.

I was just thinking, maybe they make, like, a "My Little Computer" for little kids, or a bare-bones-budget-line kind of system for schools and prisons or something.
posted by Rubber Soul at 10:22 PM on January 3, 2006

delmoi: I've had cheap CD drives drop after a few months, as well as the northbridge fan on the two cheap mobos I got (I'm aware some more expensive mobos have this problem too, but neither of mine have). Certain brands of hard drives are "known" (rumored) to fail more quickly under certain conditions. Cheaper fans with cheaper bearings, as well as cheap PSUs, also have a tendency to bite the dust prematurely.

The CPU, most mobo components, RAM, hard drives for the most part, and all the various cards aren't the problem by in large. Its usually the mechanical stuff that breaks, regardless of quality. I've just found that the cheaper the components, the shorter that time is.

Rubber Soul: A used P3 will be far under $300-350.
posted by devilsbrigade at 10:37 PM on January 3, 2006

maybe they make, like, a "My Little Computer" for little kid

They make a disney pc that looks like mickey mouse, has ears coming out of the top. That might be a little much though, don't you think?

If you could swing the money a mac mini would be great. I mean, your whole post sounds like a commercial for apple.
posted by justgary at 10:53 PM on January 3, 2006

What it is about her old PC that causes it to not be able to handle "new" stuff? CPU, RAM, HD? Some of those may be easier and a lot cheaper to upgrade than getting a new PC/OS.

Good question, though, with a lot of good info so far. If you're looking to buy a new relatively-barebones setup, check eBay and other places for OS-less servers. It may be called a server, but it's really just a PC in a different case. Once you put Linux or whatever on it, you'll have a solid, up-to-date, relatively cheap computer.
posted by SuperNova at 11:13 PM on January 3, 2006

Bare minimum for XP is a PII333, PIII500 is okay, anything higher is good. Bare minimum RAM is 256MB, 512MB is okay, 768MB is good. Bare minimum hard drive space is as low as 2GB, 4GB is much better, more is always better. What you have to do if you are going to run on a low performance system is turn off all the pretty effects: right click on My Computer, select Properties, select the Advanced tab, click the settings button in the Performance box, click the Adjust for best performance radio button, click OK.

If you are looking for an uber cheap upgrade the place to go is vfxweb.
posted by Chuckles at 1:09 AM on January 4, 2006

If the WMF exploit is the trigger that wants you to get her something more resistant, bear in mind that there will be something else in a few months or a year; it's not an isolated incident.

I second the "used Mac" suggestion. I found learning XP after Win98 at least as hard as learning Mac. With the Mac, you'll probably be doing less tech support, so it's good for you, too.

If you get her a P3 or any other flavor of Windows machine running Win2000 or XP, you're still making her learn different ways of doing stuff, and the next exploit is going to put you right back where you are now.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:08 AM on January 4, 2006

Ye gods, the idea of giving a 70 year old woman Linux!

Or inflicting Windows on her.

It's a mac, stupid.
posted by unSane at 3:28 AM on January 4, 2006

As a Windows die-hard, let me be the eighth or tenth or whatever person to say, This is the situation Macs were born for. I'd go the Mac Mini route.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:15 AM on January 4, 2006

It also needs to be inexpensive, which lets out Apple products

You're trolling, aren't you :)

Recently got a g3 mac off ebay for $90. half that was the shipping cost. Can run the latest Mac OS.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:42 AM on January 4, 2006

Rubber Soul, if cost is part of it, watch sites like slickdeals.net or fatwallet.com for big sale packages. Get one of the ~$200 machines and an excellent monitor (purchase one separately). Just remove any "bells and whistles" programs yourself before giving it to her.
posted by needs more cowbell at 5:24 AM on January 4, 2006

Well, I appreciate the help and advice. I'm not sure what I'll do so I'm not going to mark a 'best answer'. But thank you all, though, for your suggestions.
posted by Rubber Soul at 6:12 AM on January 4, 2006

Well, GL. The $64 PC I spoke about was a 900mhz p3 or p4, by the way.
posted by delmoi at 6:54 AM on January 4, 2006

As someone that administers a Linux machine for someone far more talented with computers that your mother, let me say this: for the love of doughnuts, do NOT give your Mom a Linux machine. Great operating system, but it requires care and feeding. And if your Mom needed to do something with it -- forget about it.

Only give her a Linux machine if you plan on being there any time she needs something.

For the requirements you give, your only choice is a Mac. Yes, they're more expensive. And they're worth every damn penny. The usability, integration, and "just works" factor of a Mac is worth money. Good money. If you give her a Mac, you may never think about her computer again.

If you can't afford one, just don't break what ain't broken, and leave her the way she is.
posted by teece at 7:05 AM on January 4, 2006

you might find some useful responses in this thread. my dad might be a year or two younger, and perhaps a bit more computer-savvy (but if so, not by much).

anyway, they (mum+dad) eventually did decide to get an apple (the flat one, whatever it is) and overall they're happy with it. the apple shop people are taking really good care of them (which is nice, as i live on another continent) and they're proud of how nice it looks.

in fact, last time i spoke to them they were explaining all about a bunch of useless widgets that they had set up to show the weather, flight times, god-knows-what. i don't remember them ever doing anything remotely similar with the windows machine they had.

so that's at least one example of a successful switch at around the same level of user (personally i use windows and linux, but my partner has a powerbook).
posted by andrew cooke at 7:09 AM on January 4, 2006

Get her a Mac. Yeah, they might not be the absolute least amount of money you could possibly spend, but would you buy her a Kia?

It fits everything you asked for and I think your mom is worth $100 (snicker). She obviously has some sort of kb, mouse, and display with her current machine, so a Mini (post-MWSF!) it is.
posted by kcm at 7:59 AM on January 4, 2006

I would say that for getting a 70 years old lady out of Windows, a Mac would be the way to go.... This is the situation Macs were born for.... macs are far more friendly and usable....

I admit to confusion on the "macs are easier" front. I used Macs and PCs equally at work, and I don't get how Macs are simpler. SO many people say they are, that I'm sure I'm missing something. Maybe I've been using them for too long to put myself in the shoes of new users. But could someone clarify HOW Macs are easier to use than PCs?

As-far-as I can see, Macs were once MUCH easier to use than PCs. Then Microsoft pretty much ripped off the Mac OS and called it Windows XP. Now they seem pretty much equally easy/hard to use. I guess, in theory, PCs are harder to set up (and you have all these optional extra devices and cards that might not be compatible), but that's not how most people experience PCs. Most people buy pre-setup machines from Dell or Compaq, and they work out-of-the-box, like Macs. Most PCs come now come with Firewire, USB, etc., so you can just plug stuff in and it works. As for which crashes more, there was a thread about this recently filled with people claiming that their Macs crash more often than their PCs (and vice versa). Inconclusive. Since PCs are more popular, there are way more viruses, etc. And this IS an argument against them. But I don't think that's what people are talking about when they claim Macs are easier to use.

In my job, I also see loads of PC people forced to use Macs for the first time and loads of Mac people forced to use PCs for the first time. Both are equally confused. Neither system allows people to instantly "get it." And I've noticed that consistently, Mac people complain that the PCs are stupid and PC people complain that the Macs are stupid.

What do most (non-techie) people do on computers? Start up applications on the desktop (mac/pc = doubleclick), Use the browser (pretty much the same on mac/pc), play music/DVDs (pretty much the same), save documents (CTRL+S/COMMAND+S or File > Save and navigating similar director systems), delete documents (recycle bin/trash can), send email (pretty much the same).
posted by grumblebee at 8:12 AM on January 4, 2006

This discussion reminds me of this little tongue-in-cheek gem. A little dated but still funny.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:52 AM on January 4, 2006

At a certain point every modern OS is easy. They all have sophisticated GUIs with big stupid buttons anyone can learn to use in a few hours.

A PIII machine with win2K is a nice compromise on price and age. Create a user (not administrator) account for her, install a firewall, and let her play.
posted by skallas at 11:25 AM on January 4, 2006

Finding myself in a similar situation, I bought my mom an iMac, and then a Mini. She thinks the Mini is much easier to use than the iMac, which means she enjoys using OSX more than OS9. The minis are very affordable and as someone else said, you get what you pay for.

I would no sooner put a Windows machine in her hands than I would a pile of cobras.
posted by macinchik at 1:59 PM on January 4, 2006

I would no sooner put a Windows machine in her hands than I would a pile of cobras.

I'm not trying to start a Mac/PC-flame war (as I've said, I use/enjoy both platforms), but could you (and other people) be more specific when you champion one over the other? In what way is a PC harder for novices than a Mac?
posted by grumblebee at 2:11 PM on January 4, 2006

In what way is a PC harder for novices than a Mac?

I would suggest that either are equally difficult (or rather, easy)--just about everything is plug-'n-play these days, after all. What I would be most concerned with is Grandma getting rooted because she got a nasty payload in an innocent-looking email, or accidentally clicking on an Active-X "please install me, I'm safe, really!" pop-up/advertisement of some sort.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:51 PM on January 4, 2006