How do you navigate interfaith practices as a couple?
October 5, 2016 12:19 PM Subscribe
How do happily married interfaith couples (or those with one religious and one non-religious partner) make it work? What do your daily routines look like? And how do you maintain intimacy and avoid conflict around differing religious practices and beliefs? Looking for stories, anecdotes, books, articles, or other information about how interfaith couples navigate difference.
For example, if one of you prays and the other doesn't, what do your meals and bedtime rituals look like? Does one of you say prayers while the other one sits there, or do you both say different prayers?
If one of you attends services and the other doesn't, or attends a different kind of service, do you go together or separately?
What about holidays—do you celebrate each others’ holidays? And how do you deal with expectations from your family or religious community about family participation in events?
Any information welcome, especially if they include descriptions of typical daily/weekly/holiday activities and are more about couples and less about kids. Books, articles, and your own anecdotes and experiences are all good.
For example, if one of you prays and the other doesn't, what do your meals and bedtime rituals look like? Does one of you say prayers while the other one sits there, or do you both say different prayers?
If one of you attends services and the other doesn't, or attends a different kind of service, do you go together or separately?
What about holidays—do you celebrate each others’ holidays? And how do you deal with expectations from your family or religious community about family participation in events?
Any information welcome, especially if they include descriptions of typical daily/weekly/holiday activities and are more about couples and less about kids. Books, articles, and your own anecdotes and experiences are all good.
Well, my husband and I are both Christian, but different branches of the tree. When we got married, I was far more observant than him. So we married in my church. Lately, he is more strong in his beliefs than me. We still go to my church, mainly because that means we get to see most of my family. We go together, and we have had our children baptized and they attend Catechism classes. The seven year old asks about why dad doesn't get communion and we've had a good chance to talk to her about different belief systems.
Obviously we both celebrate major holidays like Christmas and Easter. However, there has been a lot of divergence in terms of traditions. We talked a lot about that before we were married and basically agreed to support the important traditions of each family while also doing some of our own. We also have many friends and family members of other faiths and regularly celebrate things with them. For instance, we are going to a Diwali part later this month; we attend Seders; etc. When we lived away from our family, we tried to split things - we'd do Christmas Eve services with his parents, then drive to my parents to go to Mass Christmas morning.
Lots of things didn't really become issues until the kids started asking us to explain. That forced us to put things into words. We talk a lot about supporting each other, and the fact that at the end of the day all of these religions have a lot to do with being good people.
I don't know that navigating the difference in religion is any different than navigating differences in other things, like sex drive, and ambition, and priorities. It's about communication and being able to listen and understand and do things for your partner and letting them do things for you. And setting expectations. And sticking to them. Which is about communicating.
For what it's worth, our biggest disagreement, I think in our entire marriage, has been over Santa. He didn't want Santa. I wanted Santa. We both understood the other's position, but there isn't a lot of room for compromise there. We went to therapy.
posted by dpx.mfx at 1:13 PM on October 5, 2016 [9 favorites]
Obviously we both celebrate major holidays like Christmas and Easter. However, there has been a lot of divergence in terms of traditions. We talked a lot about that before we were married and basically agreed to support the important traditions of each family while also doing some of our own. We also have many friends and family members of other faiths and regularly celebrate things with them. For instance, we are going to a Diwali part later this month; we attend Seders; etc. When we lived away from our family, we tried to split things - we'd do Christmas Eve services with his parents, then drive to my parents to go to Mass Christmas morning.
Lots of things didn't really become issues until the kids started asking us to explain. That forced us to put things into words. We talk a lot about supporting each other, and the fact that at the end of the day all of these religions have a lot to do with being good people.
I don't know that navigating the difference in religion is any different than navigating differences in other things, like sex drive, and ambition, and priorities. It's about communication and being able to listen and understand and do things for your partner and letting them do things for you. And setting expectations. And sticking to them. Which is about communicating.
For what it's worth, our biggest disagreement, I think in our entire marriage, has been over Santa. He didn't want Santa. I wanted Santa. We both understood the other's position, but there isn't a lot of room for compromise there. We went to therapy.
posted by dpx.mfx at 1:13 PM on October 5, 2016 [9 favorites]
The same way you navigate other things - talk. And listen. And watch your partner's behavior to make sure you're listening to that, too.
We've reached a decent equilibrium as a household with one atheist (raised low-key Christian) and one Jew. There are areas where he supports me and areas where I have to say, "yeah, that kind of talk about G-d doesn't make sense to me either" and I picked my synagogue based in part on being a place that's welcoming where I felt like I could bring him and not be horrified or humiliated.
And we had a bunch of dumbass misunderstandings early on ("religious school? You're going to teach our children that the Bible is literally true?" "What? Non sequitur much??" - but he was scarred by an upbringing in the South). But we basically trust each other and know we can sort stuff out and the way we actually live our lives and our actual values mesh (mostly) well even if our words are different.
posted by Lady Li at 1:28 PM on October 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
We've reached a decent equilibrium as a household with one atheist (raised low-key Christian) and one Jew. There are areas where he supports me and areas where I have to say, "yeah, that kind of talk about G-d doesn't make sense to me either" and I picked my synagogue based in part on being a place that's welcoming where I felt like I could bring him and not be horrified or humiliated.
And we had a bunch of dumbass misunderstandings early on ("religious school? You're going to teach our children that the Bible is literally true?" "What? Non sequitur much??" - but he was scarred by an upbringing in the South). But we basically trust each other and know we can sort stuff out and the way we actually live our lives and our actual values mesh (mostly) well even if our words are different.
posted by Lady Li at 1:28 PM on October 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
It gets more important with kids in the mix, but even before they come along, it's a lot of communication. You may need to think harder than you have before about what your religion means to you and why in order to communicate effectively. What values of your religion are important to you? What rituals are important and what do they stand for? Is being part of your religious community important? Etc. With any luck, you'll find that the values you and your partner hold are the same, so you will be able to work out the logistics of expressing them.
You asked for a non-kids example. Before I came along, my husband had his guys' night on Friday nights. I was very uncomfortable with this as Friday night is the start of the Jewish sabbath, and I didn't like being alone on Friday nights. We're both atheists, so initially it might not have been obvious why the day mattered. I was able to explain that staying in on Friday night and marking it with a ritual Sabbath dinner isn't about fear of a deity, but about marking the end of the working week, and the elevation & prioritization of home time, with rituals to mark the transition. (It didn't hurt that the rituals involved a good dinner, wine, and challah.) Those were all values he was on board with, so he was happy to move his guys' night to Thursday and prioritize shabbat dinner with me.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:24 PM on October 5, 2016
You asked for a non-kids example. Before I came along, my husband had his guys' night on Friday nights. I was very uncomfortable with this as Friday night is the start of the Jewish sabbath, and I didn't like being alone on Friday nights. We're both atheists, so initially it might not have been obvious why the day mattered. I was able to explain that staying in on Friday night and marking it with a ritual Sabbath dinner isn't about fear of a deity, but about marking the end of the working week, and the elevation & prioritization of home time, with rituals to mark the transition. (It didn't hurt that the rituals involved a good dinner, wine, and challah.) Those were all values he was on board with, so he was happy to move his guys' night to Thursday and prioritize shabbat dinner with me.
posted by fingersandtoes at 2:24 PM on October 5, 2016
I'm Jewish, married to a man who's sort of a weird amalgam of Catholic/Quaker. I actually find that being an interfaith couple often makes things easier with our families, because we can split up the holidays very easily. My family obviously doesn't expect us to spend Christmas with them, so we don't have to worry about doing one year at one house and one year at the other, or traveling to two houses on one day or what have you. Similarly, we don't have to bother with two nights of every Jewish holiday, which I don't enjoy doing, so as to appease both families. And since we spend Christmas with his family, we spend Thanksgiving with mine and it works well.
I'm completely irreligious; I don't go to synagogue or celebrate any Jewish holidays, except for attending dinner with my family on the High Holidays, so there's no issue with my asking him to participate in Jewish rituals. As for participating in his family's rituals, I made it clear early on that while it was fine with me to go to mass occasionally, I didn't intend to kneel or cross myself or otherwise participate in the service in any way; I would stand respectfully when necessary but that was all. It was just something I was not comfortable doing and that was that; it wasn't really up for discussion. His mother, who's a pretty devout Catholic, was upset about that for a while, but she got over it.
The one time this did cause a wee bit of consternation was when his cousin decided to get married in a church on Yom Kippur. We all have our lines we don't cross; mine was that I was absolutely no way in hell going to go to a mass on Yom Kippur, period, full stop, no negotiation. It was just way too historically fraught. People were a little upset, but they got over that too, especially after I pointed out to them that they kinda had to expect that when they decided to get married on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar, maybe some Jewish people wouldn't be able to attend. (I think they had no Jewish friends at all, which I thought was a bit...offputting, but whatever.) What I wound up doing was not going to the mass, but going to part of the reception, which was after sundown.
posted by holborne at 2:38 PM on October 5, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm completely irreligious; I don't go to synagogue or celebrate any Jewish holidays, except for attending dinner with my family on the High Holidays, so there's no issue with my asking him to participate in Jewish rituals. As for participating in his family's rituals, I made it clear early on that while it was fine with me to go to mass occasionally, I didn't intend to kneel or cross myself or otherwise participate in the service in any way; I would stand respectfully when necessary but that was all. It was just something I was not comfortable doing and that was that; it wasn't really up for discussion. His mother, who's a pretty devout Catholic, was upset about that for a while, but she got over it.
The one time this did cause a wee bit of consternation was when his cousin decided to get married in a church on Yom Kippur. We all have our lines we don't cross; mine was that I was absolutely no way in hell going to go to a mass on Yom Kippur, period, full stop, no negotiation. It was just way too historically fraught. People were a little upset, but they got over that too, especially after I pointed out to them that they kinda had to expect that when they decided to get married on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar, maybe some Jewish people wouldn't be able to attend. (I think they had no Jewish friends at all, which I thought was a bit...offputting, but whatever.) What I wound up doing was not going to the mass, but going to part of the reception, which was after sundown.
posted by holborne at 2:38 PM on October 5, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'm atheist/agnostic. (I guess agnostic, since I haven't decided yet. But I definitely don't believe in a monotheistic god like the Bible claims, and act in my life like an atheist.) My husband is "spiritual, but not religious" but does believe in Jesus.
On a day to day basis, my husband does not really do anything religious. He does not attend service. In fact, I love Christmas songs way more than he does, because I was not forced to attend Christmas things as a child. (The only thing was that he was vegetarian for several years at the beginning of our relationship. So we ate vegetarian at home, and when we went out or when I was at work, I ate whatever I wanted.)
When we visit his family for holidays, more of his spirituality is expressed. For example, they sing grace before dinner and I just sit quietly. I'm fine eating vegetarian for a week, or I'll ask that they make one fish/chicken dish for me or go out to eat for a meal.
When he visits sites that are important to his spirituality, I do my best to be respectful (no sunglasses, be quiet, etc). I would be open to going to service occasionally (a few times a year), but I would prefer to sit out, which my husband would be okay with. I'm someone who visits churches when touring, so I just see it as being a respectful visitor to another culture. It helps that everyone is very nice and understanding about it. I refuse to say things I don't mean (prayers, grace, "God bless", etc), but that's about it.
I'm not opposed to charitable giving to his (parents') community. However, we earmark the funds for more concrete projects. For example, we give specifically to the garden, the school, or the nearby medical clinic that a lot of people benefit from, etc. instead of just into the general church fund. That way, he can give to the community and I can feel like it's going to a cause that will actually make a difference.
His family knows I'm agnostic and is okay with it, as their spirituality is very tolerant. However, I don't think they fully grok what it means to not believe in a higher power because sometimes they still say things or ask me questions that take me aback. (But I'm having trouble thinking of an example right now.)
We did have to have a discussion when we got married, since he wanted to bring God into the ceremony and I was very meh about that. Our compromise was that "God" was mentioned twice in the ceremony--once in the beginning and once at the end--and the rest of it was about nature, love, joy, and other concepts that he relates to as spiritual/God, but which were also meaningful to me without having to make it about a higher power.
posted by ethidda at 4:05 PM on October 5, 2016
On a day to day basis, my husband does not really do anything religious. He does not attend service. In fact, I love Christmas songs way more than he does, because I was not forced to attend Christmas things as a child. (The only thing was that he was vegetarian for several years at the beginning of our relationship. So we ate vegetarian at home, and when we went out or when I was at work, I ate whatever I wanted.)
When we visit his family for holidays, more of his spirituality is expressed. For example, they sing grace before dinner and I just sit quietly. I'm fine eating vegetarian for a week, or I'll ask that they make one fish/chicken dish for me or go out to eat for a meal.
When he visits sites that are important to his spirituality, I do my best to be respectful (no sunglasses, be quiet, etc). I would be open to going to service occasionally (a few times a year), but I would prefer to sit out, which my husband would be okay with. I'm someone who visits churches when touring, so I just see it as being a respectful visitor to another culture. It helps that everyone is very nice and understanding about it. I refuse to say things I don't mean (prayers, grace, "God bless", etc), but that's about it.
I'm not opposed to charitable giving to his (parents') community. However, we earmark the funds for more concrete projects. For example, we give specifically to the garden, the school, or the nearby medical clinic that a lot of people benefit from, etc. instead of just into the general church fund. That way, he can give to the community and I can feel like it's going to a cause that will actually make a difference.
His family knows I'm agnostic and is okay with it, as their spirituality is very tolerant. However, I don't think they fully grok what it means to not believe in a higher power because sometimes they still say things or ask me questions that take me aback. (But I'm having trouble thinking of an example right now.)
We did have to have a discussion when we got married, since he wanted to bring God into the ceremony and I was very meh about that. Our compromise was that "God" was mentioned twice in the ceremony--once in the beginning and once at the end--and the rest of it was about nature, love, joy, and other concepts that he relates to as spiritual/God, but which were also meaningful to me without having to make it about a higher power.
posted by ethidda at 4:05 PM on October 5, 2016
I am atheistish-agnostic-unitarian-whatever and my husband is Catholic. We are both very comfortable in each other's religious/spiritual worlds, but we're clear on where our beliefs diverge. A random list of things we've encountered/decided over the years. We don't have children, so a lot of areas of conflict are not an issue for us.
- We were married in the Catholic church, I was on board with this as long as I didn't have to lie about who or what I was . I fully participated in the pre-cana marriage prep. No one batted an eye when I said we weren't having children, but would be happy to have our demon hound raised in the Church. My husband is okay with me being honest and irreverent and I'm okay with spending a huge amount of time at churchy things because . . .
- My husband is in formation to become a Deacon. I support his pursuit of this vocation and attend all the events and retreats required of the wives of candidates for the Diaconate. I am the only non-Catholic and the only non-Christian. It's a fascinating experience.
- For events relating to his vocation, I attend them and participate as his wife (it's super weird to be in an environment that uses "wife" and "husband" instead of "partner", but when in Rome), but I do not participate in prayer or other religious ceremonies as anything other than an observer or guest. For example, I stand and sit during Mass and other times of prayer, but I do not say or sing prayers. I do participate in the Sign of Peace because, though I do not have all the same beliefs, these people are part of my community and extremely welcoming.
- For weekly Mass or other events, I decide on a case-by-case basis if I'll attend. If it's a special event or holiday, I'm more likely to go.
- The average Sunday morning finds him reading or serving at Mass and me at home listening to NPR and puttering. If we're on vacation or otherwise traveling together, I might not attend Mass but I'll make a point to go for a walk or do something contemplative. Then we'll both be coming back together in a similar state of mind. I decide to attend based on my mood and the bumper stickers in the parking lot.
- At some point I realized that my husband was saying the world's shortest grace to himself before dinner and I asked if he wanted to pray before meals. So, we started having a moment of silence before eating. We hold hands and independently pray and express gratitude.
- Our house is filled with Catholic bric-a-brac. This is totally familiar and comfortable for me (I had a Catholic grandmother), but I understand everyone might not feel this way.
- Though we have different ideas on faith, we are very much in agreement on basic core values. We both seek to avoid perpetuating harmful stereotypes, homophobia, anti-semitism, transphobia or bigotry. We have each other's backs if we need to speak up in a group setting.
posted by annaramma at 5:11 PM on October 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
- We were married in the Catholic church, I was on board with this as long as I didn't have to lie about who or what I was . I fully participated in the pre-cana marriage prep. No one batted an eye when I said we weren't having children, but would be happy to have our demon hound raised in the Church. My husband is okay with me being honest and irreverent and I'm okay with spending a huge amount of time at churchy things because . . .
- My husband is in formation to become a Deacon. I support his pursuit of this vocation and attend all the events and retreats required of the wives of candidates for the Diaconate. I am the only non-Catholic and the only non-Christian. It's a fascinating experience.
- For events relating to his vocation, I attend them and participate as his wife (it's super weird to be in an environment that uses "wife" and "husband" instead of "partner", but when in Rome), but I do not participate in prayer or other religious ceremonies as anything other than an observer or guest. For example, I stand and sit during Mass and other times of prayer, but I do not say or sing prayers. I do participate in the Sign of Peace because, though I do not have all the same beliefs, these people are part of my community and extremely welcoming.
- For weekly Mass or other events, I decide on a case-by-case basis if I'll attend. If it's a special event or holiday, I'm more likely to go.
- The average Sunday morning finds him reading or serving at Mass and me at home listening to NPR and puttering. If we're on vacation or otherwise traveling together, I might not attend Mass but I'll make a point to go for a walk or do something contemplative. Then we'll both be coming back together in a similar state of mind. I decide to attend based on my mood and the bumper stickers in the parking lot.
- At some point I realized that my husband was saying the world's shortest grace to himself before dinner and I asked if he wanted to pray before meals. So, we started having a moment of silence before eating. We hold hands and independently pray and express gratitude.
- Our house is filled with Catholic bric-a-brac. This is totally familiar and comfortable for me (I had a Catholic grandmother), but I understand everyone might not feel this way.
- Though we have different ideas on faith, we are very much in agreement on basic core values. We both seek to avoid perpetuating harmful stereotypes, homophobia, anti-semitism, transphobia or bigotry. We have each other's backs if we need to speak up in a group setting.
posted by annaramma at 5:11 PM on October 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm Jewish, married to a man who's sort of a weird amalgam of Catholic/Quaker.
Hunh. I'm Jewish, married to a man who was raised Catholic, who converted to being a Quaker, and then is currently not attending any Quaker meetings (because he didn't find the local Friends meeting a good fit).
When we got married, we had a ketubah, but instead of the traditional aramaic of the ketubah, we used the text of the Quaker wedding vows (An archaeologist friend-of-a-friend translated the quaker vows into aramaic, and then a local Seattle calligrapher inscribed the translated vows on the ketubah, in aramaic script modeled after the script in the Elephantine papyri, which were a famous source of aramaic text. And everyone signed it, following Quaker tradition. It's really awesome.) We kind of rolled our own wedding vows, incorporating bits and pieces. We were 'solemnized' by a friend who signed up to be an internet minister, because we didn't know any rabbis who would do interfaith marriages, and we weren't under care of a meeting (again, for interfaith reasons, plus I don't find going to meeting compelling).
In terms of services, when I go, I take the kids where appropriate, and my husband is willing to go sometimes if he has time. For example, for Rosh Hashanah on monday, the kids and I went to services, but my husband stayed home. He'll never go if it requires missing work.
I dragged him to a Rosh Hashanah dinner on Monday, which turned out to involve more prayer and stuff than expected. He's happy to participate---read prayers, lift glasses, etc.,---despite not really believing in the text.
One of the things he does do is that in the Reconstructionist Jewish tradition, in prayers, sometimes instead of "blessed are you, lord our god, king (melech) of the universe" they will say ""blessed are you, O eternal our god, source (ruach) of the universe", and he always makes that substitution, which speaks more to his interaction with the divine. (We went for a while to a Reconstructionist synagogue in Pennsylvania, which was a much better fit to his religious needs. But now we just have to go with the synagogue we've got and feel lucky to have one, here in the frozen north.)
I basically decided that I wanted to enroll the kids in religious school (once a week, sunday morning), and my husband's happy to support me/them in that, and we found the money in the budget.
But I have it easy, because for the most part, my husband isn't committed to raising the kids as Quakers, and I'm mildly committed to raising them as Jews, so that's what we're doing.
For holidays, we 'celebrate' Christmas to the extent of putting up a tree and having presents, and we celebrate Passover (I run a seder) and Hannukah, and go to Jewish services off and on (more off than on). He'll go to services if I ask him to, and he totally participates in the seder, but I run it.
(but both the Society of Friends and at least some flavors of Judaism allow for significant flexibility in terms of what you believe and what actions you take related to your religion.)
posted by leahwrenn at 5:15 PM on October 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hunh. I'm Jewish, married to a man who was raised Catholic, who converted to being a Quaker, and then is currently not attending any Quaker meetings (because he didn't find the local Friends meeting a good fit).
When we got married, we had a ketubah, but instead of the traditional aramaic of the ketubah, we used the text of the Quaker wedding vows (An archaeologist friend-of-a-friend translated the quaker vows into aramaic, and then a local Seattle calligrapher inscribed the translated vows on the ketubah, in aramaic script modeled after the script in the Elephantine papyri, which were a famous source of aramaic text. And everyone signed it, following Quaker tradition. It's really awesome.) We kind of rolled our own wedding vows, incorporating bits and pieces. We were 'solemnized' by a friend who signed up to be an internet minister, because we didn't know any rabbis who would do interfaith marriages, and we weren't under care of a meeting (again, for interfaith reasons, plus I don't find going to meeting compelling).
In terms of services, when I go, I take the kids where appropriate, and my husband is willing to go sometimes if he has time. For example, for Rosh Hashanah on monday, the kids and I went to services, but my husband stayed home. He'll never go if it requires missing work.
I dragged him to a Rosh Hashanah dinner on Monday, which turned out to involve more prayer and stuff than expected. He's happy to participate---read prayers, lift glasses, etc.,---despite not really believing in the text.
One of the things he does do is that in the Reconstructionist Jewish tradition, in prayers, sometimes instead of "blessed are you, lord our god, king (melech) of the universe" they will say ""blessed are you, O eternal our god, source (ruach) of the universe", and he always makes that substitution, which speaks more to his interaction with the divine. (We went for a while to a Reconstructionist synagogue in Pennsylvania, which was a much better fit to his religious needs. But now we just have to go with the synagogue we've got and feel lucky to have one, here in the frozen north.)
I basically decided that I wanted to enroll the kids in religious school (once a week, sunday morning), and my husband's happy to support me/them in that, and we found the money in the budget.
But I have it easy, because for the most part, my husband isn't committed to raising the kids as Quakers, and I'm mildly committed to raising them as Jews, so that's what we're doing.
For holidays, we 'celebrate' Christmas to the extent of putting up a tree and having presents, and we celebrate Passover (I run a seder) and Hannukah, and go to Jewish services off and on (more off than on). He'll go to services if I ask him to, and he totally participates in the seder, but I run it.
(but both the Society of Friends and at least some flavors of Judaism allow for significant flexibility in terms of what you believe and what actions you take related to your religion.)
posted by leahwrenn at 5:15 PM on October 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm an active progressive Presbyterian, and my spouse is a secular Jew, raised Reconstructionist. I go to church on Sundays and meetings on Mondays and choir on Wednesdays. He doesn't go to any religious places as much as he can ever avoid. I frequently go out drinking with my church friends, and sometimes he comes. We celebrate Christmas with my family and Passover with his. My Christianity is certainly of the pray in secret and God hears you in secret variety, so I've never felt the need for some sort of shared home practice that would make him uncomfortable. He just inherited his (Holocaust survivor) grandfather's menorah, so maybe we'll light candles for Hannukah this year.
When we met, he was wary of my Christianity because conservative Christian bigots had been jerks to him when he was a little kid. But he has come to see that my progressive Christianity makes me who I am, the person who he loves. And Reconstructionist Passover is an amazing celebration of freedom for all people, with really great music.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:31 PM on October 6, 2016
When we met, he was wary of my Christianity because conservative Christian bigots had been jerks to him when he was a little kid. But he has come to see that my progressive Christianity makes me who I am, the person who he loves. And Reconstructionist Passover is an amazing celebration of freedom for all people, with really great music.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:31 PM on October 6, 2016
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posted by parmanparman at 12:25 PM on October 5, 2016