What is the difference between "loner" and "keeps himself to himself"?
September 24, 2016 3:24 PM Subscribe
I believe "loner" is used in the U.S., whereas the expression "a man who keeps himself to himself to himself" is used in the U.K. Do the two have different connotations? If so, what are the differences, and why?
I'm a fan of British crime dramas. Fairly often, when an investigator asks someone about a third person, the reply is "Oh, I dunno, do I? He's a man who keeps himself to himself." I haven't come across the expression in American sources.
To my ear, the American "loner" has a negative connotation, a sort of film-noir bleakness that calls to mind a man sitting by himself at a table in a cheap SRO in the light of a single bulb hanging from the ceiling. "Loners" are marginalized. In the '50s, society viewed loners as anti social. Today, American health experts say loners (now referred to as "socially isolated" individuals) have worse health outcomes than people with strong networks of friends and family. In contrast, the British expression suggests that it might be socially acceptable to prefer one's own company. Keeping one's self to one's self is sort of a lifestyle choice, perhaps not your own choice, but not beyond the pale, either.
Is this wishful thinking? Is the message behind the British expression the same as "loner," only with a veneer of faux politeness? Or do the different terms reflect differences in attitudes and beliefs?
I'm a fan of British crime dramas. Fairly often, when an investigator asks someone about a third person, the reply is "Oh, I dunno, do I? He's a man who keeps himself to himself." I haven't come across the expression in American sources.
To my ear, the American "loner" has a negative connotation, a sort of film-noir bleakness that calls to mind a man sitting by himself at a table in a cheap SRO in the light of a single bulb hanging from the ceiling. "Loners" are marginalized. In the '50s, society viewed loners as anti social. Today, American health experts say loners (now referred to as "socially isolated" individuals) have worse health outcomes than people with strong networks of friends and family. In contrast, the British expression suggests that it might be socially acceptable to prefer one's own company. Keeping one's self to one's self is sort of a lifestyle choice, perhaps not your own choice, but not beyond the pale, either.
Is this wishful thinking? Is the message behind the British expression the same as "loner," only with a veneer of faux politeness? Or do the different terms reflect differences in attitudes and beliefs?
Agree with lazuli - "he keeps to himself" is common in the US. It's the description of a private, but otherwise normal individual.
Loner, as you correctly stated, has a negative connotation. He keeps to himself, but there's also something that seems off about him.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 3:40 PM on September 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
Loner, as you correctly stated, has a negative connotation. He keeps to himself, but there's also something that seems off about him.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 3:40 PM on September 24, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm from the US. I read "loner" as someone who's socially isolated, but someone who "keeps himself to himself" as someone who's just rather private --- not confiding in other people, not prying into their lives. He might be quite outgoing, but not really "knowable" to anyone because he doesn't really open up.
posted by jackbishop at 3:44 PM on September 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by jackbishop at 3:44 PM on September 24, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's like a semi-unfunny joke in the US that when someone goes on a shooting rampage people will say "He was a loner, kept to himself mostly" Loners in the US are often people who are alone by choice and sort of don't like being with other people for various reasons. A person who "keeps to himselfherself" is often just someone with a small set of social contacts, doesn't socialize but isn't necessarily averse to human connection. Like a loner at an office job sort of wouldn't really talk with people. Someone at an office job who kept to himself would talk some but wouldn't open up a lot and wouldn't socialize with office people but also wouldn't (necessarily) be squirrely about their lives. To my mind the life of a loner is secret and the life of someone who keeps to himself is just private.
posted by jessamyn at 4:01 PM on September 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 4:01 PM on September 24, 2016 [13 favorites]
The phrase "He kept himself very much to himself," in the UK is a very stereotypical local newspaper phrase for what the neighbours say about a man who has done something awful (or even perhaps who has just been a victim of a crime - been murdered, for example).
As a local newspaper journalist for many years it was the phrase you always dreaded hearing when you knocked on doors after a crime, because as well as suggesting he was a loner (which is a word that is also used in Britain), it has an implication that the neighbours didn't know him but are slightly too ashamed to admit that they were so unneighbourly that they had lived next door to each other for 20 years and barely exchanged a word.
As a reporter you were just looking for something, anything, a few words, that implied this person was a human being with particular qualities, and getting a wall of "he kept himself very much to himself" was as bad as getting a street of unanswered doors.
As I say, loner is also perfectly normal usage in Britain but I think is quite context-dependent as to whether it carries implications of "weird" or "sad" or simply "solitary".
posted by penguin pie at 4:11 PM on September 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
As a local newspaper journalist for many years it was the phrase you always dreaded hearing when you knocked on doors after a crime, because as well as suggesting he was a loner (which is a word that is also used in Britain), it has an implication that the neighbours didn't know him but are slightly too ashamed to admit that they were so unneighbourly that they had lived next door to each other for 20 years and barely exchanged a word.
As a reporter you were just looking for something, anything, a few words, that implied this person was a human being with particular qualities, and getting a wall of "he kept himself very much to himself" was as bad as getting a street of unanswered doors.
As I say, loner is also perfectly normal usage in Britain but I think is quite context-dependent as to whether it carries implications of "weird" or "sad" or simply "solitary".
posted by penguin pie at 4:11 PM on September 24, 2016 [9 favorites]
Today, American health experts say loners (now referred to as "socially isolated" individuals) have worse health outcomes than people with strong networks of friends and family.
A loner and a socially isolated individual are not the same. Loner implies something about a person's personality: They do not wish to connect with others and go out of their way to avoid social interaction.
Someone who is socially isolated is a person without strong connections to others. It could be because they are a loner but it could also be for other reasons: Single or widowed childless retired men are at risk of social isolation because they lose work-based ties. Since women often do the work of kin-keeping and network maintenance, these men's networks fall apart. People who have trouble leaving the house and doing things for various reasons can be socially isolated as a result. People who cannot connect to those around them because they don't speak the local language or are stigmatized somehow can be at risk of social isolation. People who move a lot. People who work long hours in jobs where they don't build relationships etc. Research on social isolation would include all those people not just loners.
And yeah, I would say that a person that keeps to themselves is a private person, but who probably still connects with some people, not a loner who avoids connection all together.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:21 PM on September 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
A loner and a socially isolated individual are not the same. Loner implies something about a person's personality: They do not wish to connect with others and go out of their way to avoid social interaction.
Someone who is socially isolated is a person without strong connections to others. It could be because they are a loner but it could also be for other reasons: Single or widowed childless retired men are at risk of social isolation because they lose work-based ties. Since women often do the work of kin-keeping and network maintenance, these men's networks fall apart. People who have trouble leaving the house and doing things for various reasons can be socially isolated as a result. People who cannot connect to those around them because they don't speak the local language or are stigmatized somehow can be at risk of social isolation. People who move a lot. People who work long hours in jobs where they don't build relationships etc. Research on social isolation would include all those people not just loners.
And yeah, I would say that a person that keeps to themselves is a private person, but who probably still connects with some people, not a loner who avoids connection all together.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:21 PM on September 24, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I'm in the UK.
He keeps himself to himself means that he is a perfectly respectable but somewhat private person who the speaker did not really know well (as someone said above, its how media-coerced neighbours describe the paedophile/murderer/rotting corpse it turns out they lived next door to) but had no reason whatever to think ill of.
A loner is the same guy, but they suspected all along.
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 6:39 PM on September 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
He keeps himself to himself means that he is a perfectly respectable but somewhat private person who the speaker did not really know well (as someone said above, its how media-coerced neighbours describe the paedophile/murderer/rotting corpse it turns out they lived next door to) but had no reason whatever to think ill of.
A loner is the same guy, but they suspected all along.
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 6:39 PM on September 24, 2016 [20 favorites]
Best answer: It's hard not to think (having lived in both cultures) that the sort of privateness or socially reservedness implied by "keeping oneself to oneself" is somewhat less inflected as abnormal in the UK than the US. Yes, in both countries, this is the cliché you hear about the blood-drinking kitten eater when he's discovered, but tolerance for being socially reserved in the US is really quite low.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 6:50 AM on September 25, 2016
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 6:50 AM on September 25, 2016
Keeps to himself: keeps minimally necessary social ties and interaction, but not more. A "keeps to himself" man will have a pleasant chat with you when you're both out picking up your papers on your adjoining driveway, will smile and nod when you ask him to come to your barbecue on Saturday, but will not come.
Loner: can't even keep minimum social ties and interaction. The loner opens his door to go out to pick up his paper, sees that you are already walking down your driveway, and goes back inside until you've gone back inside.
posted by MattD at 7:54 AM on September 25, 2016
Loner: can't even keep minimum social ties and interaction. The loner opens his door to go out to pick up his paper, sees that you are already walking down your driveway, and goes back inside until you've gone back inside.
posted by MattD at 7:54 AM on September 25, 2016
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posted by lazuli at 3:25 PM on September 24, 2016 [4 favorites]