Take this job and shove it?

August 29, 2016 10:38 AM

How do I decline a job offer, be polite and make a statement in the same breath?

I was just given a job offer with a salary that is the lowest in all my professional career. I'm talking taking a 50% paycut. To the point that I felt slightly embarrassed and a bit humiliated, to be honest. I mean, clearly they have my resume and know the decade or so worth of experience I have. I'm a Web Developer, btw. Now, I did interview for this position, and in no way did it feel like it was some entry level position.

Normally, I'd have just sent a polite email declining the offer. What makes this different is that there is a rising wave of angst and disenchantment about low salaries and increasing cost of living in my city(Vancouver, BC). And this is the first time I've been faced with the stark reality of making this little money in this town.

I have other leads to explore and don't want to negotiate/pursue this role, but I want to leave this company with something to think about. So that the next person they offer the job to starts at some advantage. I have this urge to at least point out to this company that the wage they are offering is divorced from all reality. In a polite and courteous way.

Is this a good idea, and if so, how do I go about doing so?

posted by prufrock to Work & Money (36 answers total)

It is not a good idea. Just say that you're declining the offer, and that perhaps mention that the salary doesn't meet your expectations, but there are too many factors involved with "making a point" that would put you into a negative light. Never burn bridges when you're talking about employment.
posted by xingcat at 10:42 AM on August 29, 2016 [56 favorites]

Why not try to negotiate a higher salary before declining?
posted by kapers at 10:49 AM on August 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

Couple things to consider, here: Is it possible that they made a mistake? Also, is it possible that your skills don't command the salaries they once did? Have you checked Glassdoor or similar for salary ranges in your area at comparable companies to make sure your expectations are still in line with the market? I work with engineers whose skills have stagnated but who still expect to command the kind of salaries they could get 10-20 years ago, despite the fact that the industry has changed wildly while their once-highly-regarded skillsets have stayed the same.

If you're positive your salary is still in line with market rates, then just send the polite email declining. If you feel you must make a point, try something along the lines of "Thank you for your interest, but I must decline this offer. There must have been a misunderstanding of the level of the position I was interviewing for, as this offer is not reflective of my skills or experience, or of the current market rate, and would be a 50% salary reduction for me."

This leaves the door open for them to offer a different number.
posted by erst at 10:49 AM on August 29, 2016 [18 favorites]

Its just an opening offer, part of the dance. I expect that the package will magically improve when you send your rejection.

Definitely do not try to make a point about this - its just the way some companies operate. Do not take it personally.
posted by paulash at 10:50 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

As someone who has both been offered an insultingly low rate AND (separately) gone on an interview where the manager was interviewing me for a different job than I'd applied for (leading to frustration on all sides), just...don't do this. This shit happens, it feels very personal and insulting but 9 times out of 10 it's just crossed wires or a lame negotiation gambit. If it's the one-in-ten situation where someone's actually trying to be an exploitative dick to you, that will become very clear well before you would end up behind a desk there.

Note that the offer is not in line with your expectations in your rejection (alerting them to an error if there is one, or letting them know this ain't your first rodeo if they're testing the waters...), and then try simply to put it behind you. If they get this response from all their top candidates, they will get the point and either raise the offer or start aiming for less-qualified candidates.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:57 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

(Or, I guess, they'll be one of those companies griping in some Forbes article about how there are "no good candidates" anymore because they can't get Steve Jobs to work for peanuts. Those companies do exist. But they will never, ever learn.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:58 AM on August 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

You will never get this company up 50%. Just decline. Find another company that is more in line with your expectations.

Btw - wages are spotty - some companies have got the memo that wages are on the rise due to expansion of US companies in Vancouver. Many have not. Go find the enlightened companies and don't torch bridges in the process.
posted by crazycanuck at 10:58 AM on August 29, 2016

"Regretfully, I am unable to consider positions in the starting salary range and must decline your offer."
posted by DarlingBri at 11:00 AM on August 29, 2016 [47 favorites]

Definitely decline it, but I wouldn't worry about providing more information re: the suitability of their offer—your declining it, and then the next candidate declining it, etc., will make that point better than the most eloquent words imaginable.

Don't get me wrong, I love words. But in this case all they do is offer them an out, some excuse in this family: "We couldn't get that prima donna prufrock, but it's probably him, not us—look at these words." If you just decline and take a job somewhere else, they're left with nothing to explain the events but their crappy offer.
posted by Polycarp at 11:03 AM on August 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

"I'm sorry but I have to decline your offer. The reason is because the salary you offered is 50% below what I have earned to date."

It's really odd, which makes me think their HR department screwed up (and, knowing HR, this isn't unusual), either with the salary offering, or the job description.

Something is definitely out of whack on their end.

It also makes a difference what kind of company it is. Product-focused? Service-focused? Early-stage? SME? Enterprise? Revenue-generating? Bootstrapping? Non-revenue-generating? Sell to the US? Sell outside of Vancouver?

Many, many factors.

It seems hard to imagine you will have a tough time finding the job you want, with the salary you want, in Vancouver at the moment.
posted by My Dad at 11:04 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think the best way is to counter with an appropriate offer, and justification.

if they can't rise to meet it, then you decline because of the obvious disparity.

No need to make a point. It will be clear.

It's entirely likely that the people you're interfacing with have no control over the compensation structure.
posted by entropone at 11:05 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

It would be fruitful and diplomatic to treat this as a negotiation. One magic line I've heard of (though I've never used it) is to reply simply, "it's not enough," or "the offer is too low," and leave it at that. Don't supply a desired number, let them come back with a higher number or refusal.
posted by rhizome at 11:06 AM on August 29, 2016 [13 favorites]

As long as you're sure of your data (compare against Glassdoor to be sure) just politely decline the offer. Vancouver's a big city but the more time I spend in the industry here the more I realize it's not really that big and you don't want to burn bridges you don't have to. If they ask for a reason, just tell them politely that their offer is considerably below what you understand are market rates for the role (again -- Glassdoor to be sure) and leave it at that.
posted by cgg at 11:07 AM on August 29, 2016

You shouldn't feel embarrassed and humiliated. This is not about you. I would politely decline as you would in any other situation, but it's worth mentioning to them that they're looking to pay someone 50% below the market rate for the position. It's possible they haven't done the research and really don't know.
posted by something something at 11:07 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

I agree that declining the offer with a polite reference to their low pay is strong enough statement in itself. And also, stay on the correct side of professionalism. Someone you met during the interview process could leave the company and show up again at a different point in your career.
posted by Leontine at 11:09 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Yes, it may be part of a low-ball initial offer game.

Yes, tell them you cannot accept the offer, because it is not enough money.

Yes, refrain from "proving a point", because that won't actually help anything. Actually, go ahead and tell them they are divorced from reality and insulting you, but do so only if you you think it will help you feel better, not because of some abstract notion that it will help others.

Remember, you're only worth what you can convince somebody to pay you, not some abstract "I deserve $X, based on my excellent skills". If that were true, all my scientist friends would earn more money than my friends in the coding game, but - surprise - it's the opposite.
posted by SaltySalticid at 11:09 AM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

Don't try to make a point about this - if you were memorable in this way to me as a hiring manager and made it a statement about high cost of living/low salaries, it would not make me think favorably next time I saw your resume.

I would counter is if this could, conceivably have been an error. Decide what salary you'd take the job for, and add 20%.

"HIRING MANAGER; I enjoyed getting to know you and COMPANY during our interview last week. I'm delighted to hear you'd like me to join your team! I'd be happy to accept the position at a salary of X. Thank you again for considering me. OP"
posted by arnicae at 11:09 AM on August 29, 2016 [7 favorites]

Mr. Arnicae, who is more snarky than I, says to respond "Thanks very much for the offer, unfortunately at this time I do not do pro bono work."

However...I think that is both a memorable retort and a bridge burner. I encourage investigating further prior to flaming them.
posted by arnicae at 11:12 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

I would PHONE the recruiter, and say thanks for the offer but I'm currently making twice that. I suspect at that point they will offer to match. The problem is, at that point they've suckered you into taking a new job with no gain in salary by setting a low anchor. A less stingy and more respectful company would have offered you current salary + 5% in the first place.
posted by w0mbat at 11:15 AM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yeah don't make this into drama. Whatever this is - and it could be stinginess, sloppiness, negotiation - it's not about you. Just call the recruiter and tell her "thanks for the offer but I'm at $x now and this offer isn't realistic." They'll either offer you more, or let you know their budget is capped and they can't. (The statement will have been made.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 11:19 AM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Best answer: "The salary offered is very out of line with my experience and expectations. Thank you for the time spent interviewing, I will be pursuing other opportunities. Best of luck."

Just tell them it's extremely low and move on, no indignation required.
posted by so fucking future at 11:36 AM on August 29, 2016 [14 favorites]

Getting a bunch of candidates declining jobs stating that the salary is too low is a statement in and of itself.
posted by Automocar at 11:40 AM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

They are making a mistake. When others make mistakes, we should be kind to them. Sometimes it's appropriate to ignore the mistake, sometimes it's appropriate to let them know that the result they are getting is something they can alter with a different technique.

Maybe you could ask if they are interested in a more entry-level hire, given the salary, so that you could keep your eyes open for a suitable candidate they could train.
posted by amtho at 11:44 AM on August 29, 2016 [4 favorites]

This is not advice, but I'm going to tell you what I would do. I would just ignore them. Never even respond to their offer or answer the phone if they call. It would frustrate them and make me feel good. But it would ever accomplish anything.
posted by chevyvan at 1:16 PM on August 29, 2016

Is the salary the only problem? Do you like the job and company otherwise? Because if you do, then I agree with some folks above. Negotiate. The amount is not personal, and it may be a mistake. The only way to find out is to say, "I love your company and I could help you a lot, but I'm not willing to take a pay cut to do it. Please make another offer." And then see what happens. If it wasn't a mistake, well, you can politely move on. No way to know unless you respond appropriately. Please don't burn any bridges. It is pointless.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:41 PM on August 29, 2016

I agree that you can make enough of a point and give them "something to think about" just by coming back at them with a reasonable number. But unlike what other folks have said you don't have to disclose your current salary at any point to do this, so: "I am very excited about the company and role but I unfortunately your offer would be a significant decrease from my current salary. I can only accept this role at a salary of $XXXXXX or higher; otherwise, I will have to decline the offer."
posted by capricorn at 1:57 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

The thing about not supplying a number when mentioning that the offer is low is that their reply will tell you a lot about why the offer was so low. An anchoring gambit, poor business prospects, or just exploitative dickishness.
posted by rhizome at 2:06 PM on August 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Canada is not a large enough place to burn bridges on principle, unless you are sure you can live without the bridges...ever...provinces away. You would be amazed at what I hear from the grapevine. Just decline politely.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:51 PM on August 29, 2016

I've had this happen in the past and was just very blunt in my "no thanks". No polite fabrication of another offer somewhere else, "flattered but unable to accept an offer at this time", etc. Just, "no."

I have a vague recollection that I straight up told them that I couldn't take it for the pay offered (which, as in your case, was roughly half the going rate in my field for that type of work), but I'm not sure if I really said this or it's been a few years and I'm embellishing a bit.

I wouldn't talk about feeling insulted by the low offer, though, or tying it to your perceived value or level of experience. I think that undercuts the power of "Nope."

For what it's worth, I'm 100% OK with the idea that I may have burned bridges with these people and wouldn't want to build bridges with any company that would bid so embarrassingly low, anyway. If you can't have a job offer turned down without bowing and scraping, you're not worth working with.
posted by Sara C. at 3:32 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Just be direct about the fact the offer was too low and move on.
posted by winna at 3:48 PM on August 29, 2016

They're not trying to insult you. Either they're right and there is someone out there willing to do the job for that price, or they're wrong and they'll keep searching until they change their salary offer. You can certainly tell them that the salary isn't in a range that you're able to accept, but be matter of fact about it and don't act like you're trying to "teach them a lesson," which will only undercut the strength of your message.
posted by MsMolly at 3:57 PM on August 29, 2016 [3 favorites]

Tell them it's way too low and move on. I get a call at least once a quarter for a specific position that they have priced at 50% market ... It's up to 65% but still too low. Now when they email or call (recut tigers) I say "If it's X position at Y company for Z salary, that's no. It's still too low. Here are market rates you can call me about. "
posted by tilde at 4:56 PM on August 29, 2016

In my experience this can be the result of several things:

1) Genuine mistake - they put the wrong band in, etc. Can happen if HR/recruitment doesn't really understand a technical job.

2) Genuine ignorance - small company, has hardly hired for this role before, has no idea what the going rate is or is trying to extrapolate from a dodgy subcontracting experience or something.

3) Poor job description - they've used a JD from another role or something, they're hiring at grad salary prices but advertising for something much more experienced. They will generally self-correct after a flood of over-qualified cv's that are not appropriate.

4) Tight-ass lowball exploiters with a turnover speed that approaches the sound barrier, unwilling or unable to pay for what they want, usually small companies run by assholes.

In my experience the top three are more common, and therefore your response should be kinder as it's probably a genuine mistake. I've had this happen to me (scenario 2, genuine ignorance), and when I gently explained the going rate for someone with my capabilities and experience, they were surprised and dismayed but not angry with me or anything. My explanation wasn't long winded or anything, more along the lines of "I'm not sure you're aware, but this salary is far below the market rate for this role. Someone with x years of experience on these kind of platforms would command Xty to Zty k, generally. If your budget is around Yty k, you would be looking at an early-career or graduate hire with maybe 1-3 years of experience."

The exception to this is not-for-profits and NGOs, they can really low-ball salaries and people will take the jobs. Actually, they can be all over the map, but it can be intentional there and just part of doing business, they might offer a lot of flexibility or other compensations.

Best of luck, I wouldn't worry too much about burning bridges, people say no to jobs all the time just be professional.
posted by smoke at 5:19 PM on August 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Is it possible that they made a mistake?

There's your answer right there. Call up HR and say, "Thank you so much for the offer of employment, but there must be some mistake--the salary offered seems way off base for this [assistant goombah/mid-career/upper managment/senior widgetmaker/whatevs] position. Would you mind double-checking on this for me?"

That way, you've ever so politely expressed your astonishment and done so without leaving a flaming bridge behind you.

what a bunch of jerks
posted by scratch at 5:55 PM on August 29, 2016 [6 favorites]

Really not sure why people are saying that politely indicating the reason for you declining an offer is mega rude bridge burning but maybe it is in Canada?

Also why aren't you interested in negotiating? Get interested, whether you do it with this offer or not. Think of it as sticking up for your fellow workers.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:11 PM on August 29, 2016

I may have, once during an interview that ended with a job offer and a statement about a salary that stupidly low, said in surprise, "Whoa! I couldn't even take that if I was a trophy wife!"

In my youth and stupidity, I may have followed that statement with "I've got a boyfriend and two cats to support, I don't even think I could afford a parking spot let alone an apartment on that."

The hiring manager had the decency to be very embarrassed and actually said, "Yeah, most people who work for us at the entry level still live with their parents."

Had I had time to think about it, I would have never said those things. 16 years later it hasn't bit me in the tush yet, but it would have been better left unsaid.
posted by teleri025 at 3:13 PM on August 30, 2016 [2 favorites]