webhost for a well-intentioned but illegal-in-the-US website
January 1, 2006 4:24 PM Subscribe
Help me find a reliable webhost in a country where copyright law is not as stringent and scary as the US or the UK.
Background
I run a website where I regularly post mp3 files by various artists from around the world. Much of this music is sent to us by artists who wish to be showcased on the site, but there is a lot that we post without permission, too, including advance leaks. Files are only kept online for a limited time, we never post more than a couple songs from a given album, and we strongly encourage people to purchase the music they enjoy. (The purpose of the site is to promote sales, not discourage them.)
Our intentions, of course, are irrelevant. What we are doing is illegal - at least in many countries.
The impetus for this question
Within the next few months, our present webhosting contract will expire. Our current ISP has been okay, but if we receive a cease & desist letter, they will shut down our account instead of just removing the file. I'm trying to find an ISP who is less lawyer-shy. I look at the boom of copyright-grey-area BitTorrent trackers and so on and wonder who is hosting them. I'm not looking for a criminal host, but rather one that is less terrified of copyright violations, and/or is in a country where copyright law is less severe (Scandinavia?).
As always, we will promptly and happily obey any letters from copyright-holders, asking us to remove material. But we would like to be more confident that our ISP won't just cut us off, keeping several months' hosting payments as part of some "terminate without warning" clause, etc.
Technical requirements
100mb-1gb of webspace
generous bandwidth
< $10us/month reliable Ethics
Obviously some people will not want to help me with this question. I understand that. But it's not as dodgy as it sounds, I promise -- we have no intention of ignoring cease-and-desist letters, but want to be able to act according to the wishes of any artists who contact us without also losing several months of hosting payment, etc. And I'm certain that there are upstanding hosts outside of the US/UK/Canada who would be a good fit for us.
Background
I run a website where I regularly post mp3 files by various artists from around the world. Much of this music is sent to us by artists who wish to be showcased on the site, but there is a lot that we post without permission, too, including advance leaks. Files are only kept online for a limited time, we never post more than a couple songs from a given album, and we strongly encourage people to purchase the music they enjoy. (The purpose of the site is to promote sales, not discourage them.)
Our intentions, of course, are irrelevant. What we are doing is illegal - at least in many countries.
The impetus for this question
Within the next few months, our present webhosting contract will expire. Our current ISP has been okay, but if we receive a cease & desist letter, they will shut down our account instead of just removing the file. I'm trying to find an ISP who is less lawyer-shy. I look at the boom of copyright-grey-area BitTorrent trackers and so on and wonder who is hosting them. I'm not looking for a criminal host, but rather one that is less terrified of copyright violations, and/or is in a country where copyright law is less severe (Scandinavia?).
As always, we will promptly and happily obey any letters from copyright-holders, asking us to remove material. But we would like to be more confident that our ISP won't just cut us off, keeping several months' hosting payments as part of some "terminate without warning" clause, etc.
Technical requirements
100mb-1gb of webspace
generous bandwidth
< $10us/month reliable Ethics
Obviously some people will not want to help me with this question. I understand that. But it's not as dodgy as it sounds, I promise -- we have no intention of ignoring cease-and-desist letters, but want to be able to act according to the wishes of any artists who contact us without also losing several months of hosting payment, etc. And I'm certain that there are upstanding hosts outside of the US/UK/Canada who would be a good fit for us.
Sweden is (in)famous for looser copyright laws.
posted by devilsbrigade at 4:33 PM on January 1, 2006
posted by devilsbrigade at 4:33 PM on January 1, 2006
Just remember that if there are links to you back in the States or other copyright tough countries they may still be able to get at you. If you are making money off of this venture you definitely need a good lawyer to help you. Best of luck to you.
posted by caddis at 5:04 PM on January 1, 2006
posted by caddis at 5:04 PM on January 1, 2006
If the Pirate Bay is right, Sweden will still nab you for copyright infringement, just not linking to infringing content, which unfortunately doesn't solve the problem.
I think the Eastern European option might be your best bet right now, unfortunately. Pretty much everyone with 'generous bandwidth' unfortunately at least pays lip service to WIPO, so good luck.
posted by Ryvar at 5:05 PM on January 1, 2006
I think the Eastern European option might be your best bet right now, unfortunately. Pretty much everyone with 'generous bandwidth' unfortunately at least pays lip service to WIPO, so good luck.
posted by Ryvar at 5:05 PM on January 1, 2006
follow-up from anonymous
Thanks for all the comments so far.
I'm really looking for some specific suggestions of hosts that might be good for us - I'm aware that places like Sweden and Eastern Europe have laxer reputations, but the trouble is choosing some random Swedish or Eastern European (or whatever) host.
Also, I should make it clearer that we don't need the extreme of someone who ignores WIPO, etc, just someone who hasn't bought into something like the DMCA, or, more accurately, someone who won't be totally terrified by a copyright-related letter. If we are asked to take something down, we will take that file down -- we have no interest in violating the wishes of the artist. But our current host will terminate our account if they receive a cease & desist (even if we do cease & desist), which is above and beyond their legal requirement.
We're just looking for someone more laid back about these issues, and given the stringency of the DMCA, we doubt that host will be located in the USA.
I suspect that the torrent-tracker hosts might be appropriate; they've definitely received lawyer letters, but as they're confident of the tracker's legality, they've not killed PirateBay (or whoever)'s account. Compare this with most UK/US/Cdn hosts, who would almost certainly kill anything even remotely piracy-related.
Thanks again for all the balanced recommendations.
posted by jessamyn at 5:49 PM on January 1, 2006
Thanks for all the comments so far.
I'm really looking for some specific suggestions of hosts that might be good for us - I'm aware that places like Sweden and Eastern Europe have laxer reputations, but the trouble is choosing some random Swedish or Eastern European (or whatever) host.
Also, I should make it clearer that we don't need the extreme of someone who ignores WIPO, etc, just someone who hasn't bought into something like the DMCA, or, more accurately, someone who won't be totally terrified by a copyright-related letter. If we are asked to take something down, we will take that file down -- we have no interest in violating the wishes of the artist. But our current host will terminate our account if they receive a cease & desist (even if we do cease & desist), which is above and beyond their legal requirement.
We're just looking for someone more laid back about these issues, and given the stringency of the DMCA, we doubt that host will be located in the USA.
I suspect that the torrent-tracker hosts might be appropriate; they've definitely received lawyer letters, but as they're confident of the tracker's legality, they've not killed PirateBay (or whoever)'s account. Compare this with most UK/US/Cdn hosts, who would almost certainly kill anything even remotely piracy-related.
Thanks again for all the balanced recommendations.
posted by jessamyn at 5:49 PM on January 1, 2006
I doubt you will find a commercial host in Sweden that suits your needs. I can't think of any.
Even though linking to copyrighted material is technically legal here, hosting it sure isn't. And I think the hosts would rather pull the plug on your tracker if they recieve a C&D than getting into legal arguments on your behalf.
The TPB-guys have their own servers - and know the law - so they can afford to be cocky.
posted by mr.marx at 8:32 PM on January 1, 2006
Even though linking to copyrighted material is technically legal here, hosting it sure isn't. And I think the hosts would rather pull the plug on your tracker if they recieve a C&D than getting into legal arguments on your behalf.
The TPB-guys have their own servers - and know the law - so they can afford to be cocky.
posted by mr.marx at 8:32 PM on January 1, 2006
Apparently the co-location place that hosts the Pirate Bay servers also offers webhosting. Might be worth a shot to send them an email.
posted by mr.marx at 8:41 PM on January 1, 2006
posted by mr.marx at 8:41 PM on January 1, 2006
I've gotten DMCA C&Ds from The Planet and EV1 Servers while renting dedicated servers there without automatic account deletion (tickets get filed and then you let them know if you're in compliance or not). Both provide shared hosting and have been very dependable in the past, although I'm not sure if their practices with shared hosting is the same or not.
Have you tried contacting the webmasters of some of the more popular MP3 blogs? They might be able to give some better recommendations that don't involve dealing with far-off eastern european ISPs.
posted by lhl at 2:55 AM on January 2, 2006
Have you tried contacting the webmasters of some of the more popular MP3 blogs? They might be able to give some better recommendations that don't involve dealing with far-off eastern european ISPs.
posted by lhl at 2:55 AM on January 2, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mathowie at 4:25 PM on January 1, 2006