Examples of butch women, happily partnered to men
August 24, 2016 6:28 PM   Subscribe

Do you have examples (IRL or otherwise) of masculine-leaning women who are romantically partnered with men?

I feel like "butch" and "masculine-leaning" can be kind of nebulous, so as a somewhat arbitrary cutoff, let's limit this to physical appearance, and say that these women generally eschew makeup, occasionally get called "sir" by strangers, and given a choice, would wear a suit to a formal event rather than a dress/blouse-and-pants/etc. Power tools optional.
posted by btfreek to Human Relations (59 answers total) 25 users marked this as a favorite
 
Tilda Swinton?
posted by fshgrl at 6:35 PM on August 24, 2016


Sure, I have examples but you are not going to know who they are. Do you mean famous examples?
posted by AFABulous at 6:39 PM on August 24, 2016 [15 favorites]


http://cargocollective.com/joeycomeau/Oh-me-Dort
Maggie Dort and Joey Comeau were together for a while.

margaret atwood and graeme gibson have been together for a long time and margaret was pretty butch in her youth:
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02645/young_2645727c.jpg
posted by zdravo at 6:41 PM on August 24, 2016


Response by poster: Doesn't have to be famous people, in fact would prefer normal folks (with names/details appropriately obfuscated to protect everyone's privacy ofc).
posted by btfreek at 6:43 PM on August 24, 2016


You might try the search terms "queer heterosexuality" or "transmasculine women"
posted by AFABulous at 7:00 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: Okay, I originally posted without personal context because I don't really feel the question is about me, but I can see now that it might help clarify things. I am someone who could be reasonably described by my description above, who is attracted, apparently exclusively, to men. Some particularly shitty experiences wrt dating have been wearing at me lately and I would just like some stories of people who are "like me" (because no, I didn't of know anyone "like me" until I posted this thread) so I don't feel like I need to cram myself back into the box labelled "femme" in order to find a partner.

Like, you know that trope in movies where the tomboy "cleans up" for some sort of special event and is suddenly all glammed up and finally, at last turns the heads of all the boys? That simultaneously infuriates and depresses me, and I would like an antidote to that. I asked specifically for examples to hedge against this question turning into a dating/personal advice thread. (Though, on preview: thanks for those search terms, AFABulous, I'd never heard of queer heterosexuality before.)

Thanks, everyone who has shared examples and their own experiences so far.
posted by btfreek at 7:34 PM on August 24, 2016 [12 favorites]


I just asked mr. crankylex if he considered me to be masculine leaning and he said yes and we've been together for about ten years so that's another data point. I'm bisexual but predominantly dated women prior to our relationship. I often describe wearing a dress as feeling as though I'm in drag, I don't shave or wear makeup and my hair is short. I also work in construction! I have to say that most of the women I know who are like me date women rather than men, but there must be some men who are into it, my husband can't be a unicorn.
posted by crankylex at 7:41 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


I'm not sure this pairing is what you're looking for, but Patti Smith (striking, but never especially "girl-y" and often in a menswear-inspired suit) was happily married to Fred (Sonic) Smith.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:47 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


Before I realized I was a trans man, I would have appeared to fit into your criteria, and every single dude I have ever been with was bisexual. So, there definitely are guys out there that will date/ have relationships with masculine women, but in my experience, it's a waste of time to pursue straight men.

I know a half dozen people IRL who were assigned female at birth but consider themselves genderqueer or gender-fluid, and date/are in a relationship with a cis man. You can identify however you like, of course, but many people will see you as transmasculine, genderqueer, etc.

I'm pretty much binary male, but if you want me to ask around or dig up some GQ resources or just commiserate on the sad state of dating men, feel free to memail me.
posted by AFABulous at 7:48 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I wouldn't consider myself a "butch woman," but I check a lot of the social aspect physical appearance boxes. Don't shave, short hair, major interests are in male-dominated fields, etc. I am happily partnered to a man.

Probably a better example is a friend of mine who gets "sir"ed 10% of the time (and has since puberty) and she also has no trouble finding people of any sex/gender to date.
posted by aniola at 7:55 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


When I was a newly out baby butch (I was about 20 at the time), I went to visit my mom for winter break. She had moved to Maine (from Boston) a few months before, and I had not yet been to visit her there - in Rockland - nor had I been anywhere in Maine except Freeport.

We went to the grocery story and I got out of the car and looked around the parking lot and was like "Uh, I didn't know Maine had so many lesbians?" because it was a sea of short hair, flannel, blue jeans, and Bean boots. This is the uniform (or was, anyway) of working class straight women in a whole lot of New England, but never had I seen such a concentration.

That is my experience of straight-women-who-look-more-like-butch-dykes-really. Hope this helps! You do totally exist in numbers much greater than "you"!
posted by rtha at 7:59 PM on August 24, 2016 [23 favorites]


there are tons of straight men who pine mopeily after women with this general look and I think a lot of them are not enlightened enough to realize not all butch women are lesbians, but they are enlightened enough to know that hitting on lesbians is not a thing for a man to do, and thus they tend more to muffled pining than active pursuit. so I don't know, is that encouraging? source: I've seen it with my own eyes a bunch

(if it encourages you to know there are men who earnestly think the less hair you have, the more brains & coolness. their own brains are not always up to their taste level, shall we say. but god bless em, they do exist, I can say that for them.)
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:01 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


A friend of the family who is basically an aunt to me evidently used to present more femme but some time in the eighties got a divorce and a whole wardrobe of pantsuits. Apparently everyone had geared themselves up to be extremely supportive and happy for her when she eventually came out as a lesbian but only a few years after her coming into her own she married a straight dude and they have been happy ever since. A few years ago I had the chance to ask her if she's bisexual or genderqueer or anything (during a conversation involving my own bisexuality) and she said she's straight, though in the eighties she thought she should try to date some women and it was a horrible disaster. Her husband is a pretty typical sixty-something guy, and they met through work. I guess those shoulder pads really worked for him. One time he apparently caused a ruckus because he had words with a bride to be who refused to allow my aunt to wear trousers in her wedding party.
posted by Mizu at 8:05 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


Hmmm...well, I'm a female firefighter who owns at least a dozen pairs of khaki shorts, a bazillion t-shirts, and almost always wears a ball cap. I don't own any makeup except for some lip gloss and mascara (for weddings), and I fix stuff, work on my own vehicle, hunt, fish, operate power tools, have short cut fingernails, and when I'm in uniform am addressed as "sir" with frequency even though I have long hair. I also like football and auto racing and take up a lot of space physically despite my small stature. I do like getting dressed up occasionally, but only for myself; I'm not doing it for anyone else. I think I own one purse; it's for when I'm wearing dresses. I have been paired with a male partner (who is also very masculine) for 6.5 years, and all but one of my more-than-platonic relationships in my entire life have been with men. I am cisgender and am comfortable being a woman. Most of my male partners have identified as strictly heterosexual.

One thing that has worked for me is finding guys who either don't have ideas of traditional gender roles, or who might have been raised with them and eschew them anyway because they either want to examine a new perspective or just like me enough to accept the fact that I'm not going to be confined to society's ideas of femininity. That being said, I definitely perform the bulk of emotional labor in my romantic partnerships. I also tend to be interested in guys who have similar interests as I do, and while they are varied, on Sunday I will be watching racing and football and would much rather do so than, um, whatever society says a woman is supposed to be doing on Sunday afternoon.

So, yes, it is possible. But, and maybe it's this geographic area, they seem to be kind of difficult to find. I've found them mostly in other public service careers and in the military, probably because they are used to working alongside strong women (not to imply that women outside of these professions are not strong!) who may not conform to "feminine roles," or at least not during working hours.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 8:06 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


Chantal Hébert. She is a writer and political pundit here in Canada. Intelligent and insightful with an amazing give-no-shits attitude. Never seems to wear makeup, hair is no-fuss, doesn't wear men's suits but certainly outfits skew masculine. I assumed she was a lesbian for years until someone told me she has a husband. Somehow this made her even more incredible in my eyes.
posted by Cuke at 8:12 PM on August 24, 2016 [4 favorites]


You might find this blog post interesting.

Here's an article on butch chic.
posted by bluedaisy at 8:27 PM on August 24, 2016 [2 favorites]


I've seen it happen. But finding true love is always a challenge. It takes luck, Good luck!
posted by ovvl at 8:42 PM on August 24, 2016


Yes, I've known multiple people who fit this description in real life. Just personal friends, not celebrities.

Also, iirc there were a few characters like that in the book Stone Butch Blues.
posted by 168 at 8:44 PM on August 24, 2016


I definitely know couples who are examples of this in real life.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:59 PM on August 24, 2016


Nobody has ever called me "sir" -- my boobs are way too big for that. But by the time I was middle-aged I had short hair, didn't shave or use makeup, wore more masculine clothes. But the important thing about me is my manner: I'm loud, I expect to be paid attention to, I have many opinions and I interrupt people to tell them my opinions. When I was younger, I tended to be the initiator of sexual behavior. I'm not trying, I just present in a more masculine manner. Irritate me and I'll get up in your grill, dude.

I've been married, so happily, for 36 years to a man who enjoys the way I am. He's very sweet, non-critical, non-confrontive. He's an actor, and reads Shakespeare for fun. He was also a recruiter for the National Guard for 20 years, and often seems very traditionally masculine, loves explosions and guns and movies full of non-stop ActionHeroics. But he's really a gentle guy, if a little obsessive about using coasters all the time.

I enjoy the way he is. We enjoy the way we can make the other one feel. It was very rocky sometimes at first, but now we feel that places we are most different are the places we enrich each other the most. The oddest couples are sometimes the strongest.

Note: I don't know how different it would be if we were young now. We had the freedom to explore our differences without any pressure about gender identity, or which was who or how. I think it might be more difficult now, to just let things happen between you.
posted by kestralwing at 9:00 PM on August 24, 2016 [8 favorites]


I just had my mind boggled by kestralwing's answer, since I am a man partnered to a "masculine-of-center" woman who wore a suit to our wedding etc etc, and like kestralwing's partner I am "a little obsessive about using coasters all the time."

So yes, it's completely possible for you to be happily partnered with a man. But maybe look for someone similarly coaster-obsessed, just to be sure.
posted by col_pogo at 9:16 PM on August 24, 2016 [35 favorites]


Heck yes. We have neighbors, a straight couple, who fit this model. She thinks of herself as tomboyish, and has the kind of appearance that, if you told me she was a lesbian, I wouldn't be at all surprised (I have known a lot of lesbians). Her husband is a sweet and gentle man; he doesn't swish, but again, he'd fit right in with a lot of the gay and bi men I know. Both of them identify entirely as straight.

I have a friend who is a butch-ish bisexual who is married to a swishy bisexual guy.

So, yeah. People do it.
posted by not that girl at 9:18 PM on August 24, 2016


Erika Moen might be an example?
posted by superlibby at 9:39 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yes, I know multiple people like this.
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:53 PM on August 24, 2016


I guess I fit the bill? (I was recently called sir and bathroom policed despite being 6 months pregnant.) I'm very straight but also pretty masculine. (I hate the term tomboy because it's fairly meaningless.)

This has never been an issue with my husband. I think he finds me more attractive the more comfortable I am in my own skin, which has been hard lately.

In fact we were just discussing this over dinner. I just gave away my Vera scarf collection because I never wear them. I will only wear suits or blazers to dress up now. And that the confidence I get from dressing on a manner of my liking and the feeling of looking good is huge, and my husband totally loves that.
posted by kendrak at 10:27 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I went to college with a young woman who was small, but masculine. She came across more as a boy than a man, and I remember she shopped in the boys' part of a department store. But she was decidedly hetero, and after college, married one of our (considerably older) professors. It was an interesting pairing, as he was quite prominent, and she was not your usual young trophy second wife! I wasn't sure whether his age was a factor.
posted by my-sharona at 11:12 PM on August 24, 2016


My mom used to have a next-door neighbor who struck me at the time as being very butch. She had very short hair like a man (this was back in the early 80s where it wasn't the style for women at all). She wore not a speck of makeup and I never saw her in anything but jeans and a tank top in the summer or thermal shirt in the winter. Physically she was tall and thin, gangly and graceless, with a mannish way of moving.

She was good with tools and often took care of minor household and vehicle repairs. She was happily married, as far as I could tell, to a man and they had a couple of boys.

This was in a little tiny town kind of out in the country, and they seemed like rather countryish people, practical and no-nonsense. I have no idea if her sexuality or gender identifications were different than cis-female or hetero. She may not have thought along those lines either, it wasn't something a lot of people were very aware of in those days. She always just struck me as someone who had a practical haircut and practical clothes and a straightforward way of getting on with things without getting bogged down in fancy girly stuff, and her husband didn't seem to want or expect it.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 11:17 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


This kinda describes my wife. We have been together since high school, 31 years, married 27 years. In all that time, I think she ever only wore makeup when one of her bridesmaids nagged her the morning of our wedding. Was one of the handful of occasions when she wore a dress, too. She always wore her hair pretty short and simple, and had a pretty boy-ish figure. She was quite athletic in those earlier years, played basketball and softball and soccer with all the other butch young women, in high school and college. She was also fairly tall, just shy of 6 feet, several inches taller than me. After college, we married and moved to St. Louis, where she was frequently called "sir". After two kids, her body got more curvy, but she's as butch as ever. Once in a while, she gets called "sir", but that was always much more rare in California. She doesn't play ball anymore, but she's gone crazy for fishing, particularly deep sea.

She jokes about being butch. It's always been a complete non issue to me. I like the ways she looks. In all those years, she occasionally was assumed to be a lesbian. By other lesbians. I'm sure straights have made that assumption, too, but never said anything about it.

She does shave her legs and armpits, though. Then again, I shave my pits sometimes. *shrug*
posted by 2N2222 at 11:33 PM on August 24, 2016 [6 favorites]


I have a handful of straight cis friends who fit this description, many of them date men who are not just meh, ok about butch women but particularly attracted to them. Looking in queer, kink or art scenes may help you find more open-minded folks. It's also possible straight men are perceiving you as a lesbian and thus unavailable. I encourage you to take the initiative in setting up dates if you don't already.

Consider amping up your butch chic! Don't know your style, but a sleek put-together look is a head turner for all presentations. I've noticed that straight butch women tend to add different... how do I capture this... decorative touches to their outfits than queer butches (with the exception of the dapper butch, of course). More like Shane in the L-Word or the "sporty dyke" look. Touch of lip gloss and stud earrings with the suit, work boots with a sharp toe and slight heel, like that.

You do you!
posted by fritillary at 11:43 PM on August 24, 2016 [1 favorite]


I'm another example. I'm too short and curvy to be called sir, but I do have very short hair and pretty much everything I wear can be worn by men or boys. I don't do dresses but lately I wear a kilt (of course, people read it as a skirt. *shrug*). I do not wear makeup or shave anywhere. I wear men's underpants because they're comfy and cheap.

I like to tinker and I'm good with tools. I don't see that as masculine, it's just what I like. I change the tyres on my motorbike because I can and it's good to do these things yourself, you always find at least one extra problem which you can then happily fix because you caught it in time.

My partner is in IT, he's big and tall and beardy, and wears outdoor clothing, like hiking boots. I would not say that he's anything other than a straight cismale. But he's fine with the way I look. I already dressed/looked this way when we met. He says that one of the reasons he was attracted to me is the fact that I owned an angle grinder.

Feel free to memail me if you feel like it.
posted by Too-Ticky at 12:41 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think Katherine Hepburn (particularly in her later years), Frida Kahlo and Georgia O'Keeffe might fit this description. Others might not agree, particularly about Kahlo, since she dressed very feminine, but I reckon there's a kind of aggressive anti-prettiness about her femininity that's a bit akin to what you're looking for.
posted by trotzdem_kunst at 1:35 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I came in to say Frida Kahlo.
posted by salvia at 3:04 AM on August 25, 2016


I'm like this. Put my hair in a hat and I not only get called "sir," I get hit on by straight women. Like bees to a honeypot, seriously. I would do it on purpose when I was in university and toting my younger brother, who was very shy, so I'd catch ladies revving my red '72 Chevy V8 while playing some Led Zeppelin and introduce them to him. Once in a while I still try it out, though without the sports car, to see if I still "got it". Don't know what it is – tall, dark, and mysterious? I'm 5'11" with dark hair and dark blue-green eyes – but yeah, if I were a hetero man, I'd be set.

But I'm a hetero woman! No makeup, "fuck it" hairstyle though at a "feminine" length, tall and confident. I can look 50s feminine in an A-line ponte dress without much effort, but not because I necessarily want the look, it's because it's super comfortable with the bonus of being office-appropriate. (It's like wearing pyjamas undercover, heehee.) Those with sharp eyes notice I never wear heels. Trousers bug me when sitting all day. Outside the office I wear nothing but trousers and shorts, though. I hold myself tall, no slouching, which is something several rando straight men have sputtered at me about "not knowing my place." Quite athletic all my life. Do all the work on my apartments myself (except plumbing and electric). Know how to gap spark plugs for engine timing and change oil.

A couple close gay friends keep telling me I'm a closeted lesbian, for YEARS now, which is seriously annoying but I kinda get where they're coming from. As in they don't know any straight women like me, so. I long ago stopped trying to label myself because it's like, I'm me and like men. It would be nice if people could accept that rather than try to tell me who I am or find fault. It's like, go find someone you like? You don't have to bug me? There are 6+ billion people on the planet!?

I have been single for several years now, and only know one butch hetero woman in a happy relationship. My ex-not-quite-MIL who's still a friend :) She's been happily married 42 years now. Short-cropped hair, huge outdoors fan, very no-nonsense and sincere. I love her. Have had three relationships myself, one long-term (the only one I call "ex", the two others only lasted a few months). Thank you for the question, happy to read the other responders too.
posted by fraula at 3:28 AM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]


The wife of one of my rugged and outdoorsy coworkers fits this description exactly. The way she looks, dresses, and acts could come out of a movie, she fits the butch stereotype so well. I am not close enough with them to ask questions about sexual identification, but this and her previous marriage were both heterosexual. They appear to be completely happy with each other, at least as far as I can tell socially.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:24 AM on August 25, 2016


This was me in my teens-early 20s. I had short hair and wore t-shirts, hoodies, and men's dress pants. I've never been mistaken for a man (very short, somewhat curvy, feminine face) but people used to assume I was a lesbian. I was partnered with men throughout that time and I met my husband then (but dated and married several years later). I've always been pretty handy with tools etc. (I was and am, however, fine with "cleaning up" for special occasions--frilly dress, makeup, heels, the whole deal; this felt/feels equally authentic, just what special occasions call for.)
posted by mchorn at 5:53 AM on August 25, 2016


I have a friend who explicitly identifies as genderqueer, presents as very butch (usually). She is happily married to a regular guy and is a mother. Admittedly she wasn't butch when she got together with her now-husband, but he's clearly along for the ride.
posted by adamrice at 6:12 AM on August 25, 2016




I fit your description. Mr. Carmicha and I met thanks to being in the same male-dominated profession and related over that, initially, but we were both confused by our immediate strong attraction to each other because we weren't each other's types. He was a widower whose wife was a German version of a steel magnolia. I think originally he had to adjust to my butchness, but he quickly got to where he was grateful that I love football, help move the cord of firewood or can diagnose car trouble. It gave him some freedom to be himself in other ways (e.g., his particular coaster obsessions) and offered companionship and a dimension of being in a marriage team that he didn't know he missed. I adjusted too; it took me awhile to own the fact that I enjoy having competence in allegedly masculine realms and, especially, to drop feelings of shame about how I just don't give a hoot about vast swatches of stereotypically feminine concerns and pursuits (not all of them; I love to cook and craft). I'll dress up for special occasions and enjoy it, but I'm very glad to peel that shit off at the end of the day. Hang in there.
posted by carmicha at 6:37 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


The late Andrea Dworkin. She did not strictly adhere to classic "butch" fashion (e.g. she wore her hair shoulder-length for much of her life), but in many respects fits what you're looking for, I think.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:09 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


I had a nurse for a week who I thought was clearly a transgendered man-to-woman (not that it mattered), but later found out she was always a woman, just extremely masculine, and was happily married to an even more masculine man.

(I am not sure if my description here is appropriately sensitive enough, but I tried my best.)
posted by TinWhistle at 7:41 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


>I think she ever only wore makeup when one of her bridesmaids nagged her the morning of our wedding.

Had to check that this was not my husband. Yes, most of the stuff upthread. My husband and I both had the bad luck to fall for a bunch of not-out gay people before we found each other, so sometimes it happens the other way around too.
posted by tchemgrrl at 8:18 AM on August 25, 2016


My mom is pretty butch, in a hippy way, and has a male partner (he's bi, but some previous boyfriends have been straight). If you ask for stories about back when she was in school, how awful it was to be forced to wear dresses is up at the top of the list (before walking both ways uphill in the snow, even). She owns one tunic-like dress, which she wore to my house a lot during my daughter's hyper-feminine phase. (Li'l Epps* refused to wear pants, even under dresses, from age 2 - 3, citing that "she was a girl" and disbelieving my "but I wear pants and am also a woman" arguments.) She tends towards wearing men's jeans and t-shirts, doesn't wear makeup or shave, and wears her hair quite short. This description also fits many of her friends, gay, straight, or bi, though. I don't know if it's a hippy thing, or being in the Pacific Northwest, where hiking gear is always acceptable, or it's just what is most comfortable to wear and what else would you care about, but I think it's pretty common around here.

I've bounced around a lot on the feminine to masculine presentation. I was wearing khakis and button-down shirts back when I was dating in college, with very short hair, and had no trouble dating men (more trouble dating women, but that might have been more of a small dating pool problem). I enjoy feminine outfits too**, but they feel more like I'm doing drag or dressing up in the fairy wings sense. I've been wearing a lot of feminine clothing the last few years and it's a lot of fun, but never quite gets more believable that it's real clothes and I'm not somehow getting away with wearing a tutu and tiara around.

*Li'l Epps now prefers jeans and t-shirts except on fancy occasions.

**I enjoy over the top dresses with feminine touches to the extent that I don't get harassed, so I'm more likely to be more feminine in the presence of my husband or at home. (My husband likes anything I wear; he just makes a useful misogynistic jerk shield.) Walking outside by myself, I'm likelier to be androgynous.
posted by Margalo Epps at 8:38 AM on August 25, 2016


I don't fit this description, but for a long time while I was in the Army I did. (Short hair, butch-ish clothing, boobs I tried to largely suppress). I did not have trouble dating. There's totally a particular subset of guy that really appreciates this - like is just bewildered and frustrated by the other thing and finds makeup like a terrifying uncanny valley.

In my personal experience, you might do very well with veterans - they tend to give So. Many. Less. Fucks. about what other people think, and are willing to go with what /they/ want.

But I agree on the PNW thing! There are women here EVERYWHERE who are just wearing flannel and hiking gear out on the streets, and the guys seem to go after them just as much!
posted by corb at 8:42 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


By the way, there are a gazillion pairings of butch women to trans guys. It's at least as common than trans guys + feminine women. Often, both considered themselves to be lesbians before the guy transitioned (not necessarily while they were partnered). I'm about 99% gay but if I did end up with a woman it would almost definitely be a butch woman.

You may not notice these couples on the street if you're mistaking the trans man for a lesbian, or if you're perceiving them as just friends (man + lesbian).
posted by AFABulous at 9:00 AM on August 25, 2016


I am tall and large; people assume I am lesbian (I'm not) and I wear makeup and keep my hair long so women will stop hitting on me--everytime I get my hair cut shorter, I look more masculine.

Have a hard time finding clothes and I seriously look stupid in super-feminine clothing. I bought a ruffled fancy blouse one time, brought it home, and my husband and I could not stop laughing when I tried it on because I looked so funny. My mom would not even put me in super-girly clothes as a child--most would not fit and my body type just looked so strange.

Married, happily, to a guy for 15+ years.
posted by bessiemae at 10:10 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


I think I am such a person. I used to dress in more masculine clothing and recently considered finding a suit to be in a friend's wedding. I have short hair, and always get my hairstylist recs from my more "butch" friends. I get a lot of questions about how my husband feels about my hair (people can be really rude). I do not wear makeup. I do wear skirts/dresses but mostly because I hate shorts and it's hot where I live (also, I have a daughter and her "girliness" sometimes is infectious). I am married to a man (on preview: also for 15+ years, high five), we both identify as strictly heterosexual. Memail me if you want to talk!
posted by freezer cake at 10:17 AM on August 25, 2016


I've also got several friends like this. My childhood gym teacher (I know...) is even nicknamed Butch (by her family) but has been happily married for 30 years with three kids to show for it. I know several women who are involved in horse-y things, and wear western-type stuff most of the time. All straight. Kinda hard to judge a book by its cover, especially nowadays!
posted by jhope71 at 10:48 AM on August 25, 2016


I have gone through some extremely butch periods in my life, some quite long. I haven't worn makeup in many years. My hair has been extremely short for about a decade. In recent years especially, I often get double takes in the bathroom or get told "Excuse me sir, I think you have made a mistake. This is the Lady's Room." Although I like dresses, I hate heels and life just has not been conducive to wearing dresses for many years now. I still get hit on.

I was married for over two decades and I have two kids. I attract stereotypically old fashioned, conservative men who open doors for ladies and have manners from the 1600s. I have only once in my life had really long hair. It will never happen again. I have known men who have a problem with short hair but wanted me anyway, but wanted me to have long hair. As I have gotten older, I have gotten pretty bitchy about going "You can fuck off and die or get over your shit. Pick one." Because I am clear my bed is only empty so long as I consistently say No to everyone, so I really do not have to take this shit. If long hair is so important, just keep walking and don't bother me.

There was an actress who said "I dress for women. I undress for men." My experience mirrors that: Men are generally much more interested in knowing if they can get me out of my clothes than in what I wear when I leave the house.

I am also starting to blog about my relationship to clothes and my thoughts on clothes. Memail me if you want the link.
posted by Michele in California at 11:05 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]


Grace Jones & Atila Altaunbay
Patti Smith & Fred Smith
posted by sparklemotion at 12:01 PM on August 25, 2016


I went to high school with a woman who was very stereotypically masculine in the way she dressed and her interests. Would absolutely not be surprised if she were a lesbian. But she is straight and now married to a man. She tended to date older men.
posted by shesbenevolent at 12:49 PM on August 25, 2016


I know several men who are attracted to butchy women of any sexuality. Butchy women often radiate a particular kind of physical confidence that hints at a high and lusty libido, coupled with nonconformist self-acceptance, which is really attractive.

Right now might be a good time to take a short break to enjoy Alison Bechdel's lovesong to the first butch woman she ever saw, the magnificent "Ring Of Keys" from the musical Fun Home.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 3:54 PM on August 25, 2016


Genderqueer woman here, married to a straight man. Even with shoulder-length or longer hair and major curves I still get called "sir" sometimes. I'm the person in our house who fixes things, uses power tools, and works in an overwhelmingly male industry. My husband likes long baths with bath salts and candles. I like showers and LEDs. We both wear Adidas sneakers and basketball shorts around the house. Recent role models: Brienne of Tarth, Jillian Holtzmann. I increasingly give no fucks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by limeonaire at 4:49 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]


me! I have short hair, get hassled in the bathroom from time to time "uh, this is the *ladies* room", and have been happily dating a straight man for 6 years. I don't shave my legs, have never worn makeup, and feel sort of ill at the thought of wearing frilly clothes.

For a long time I used to worry "oh no, am I have to undergo a magical tomboy movie trope in order to date straight men" and it turns out that nope, I'm great the way I am.
posted by oranger at 9:50 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]


it me
posted by hollyholly at 4:53 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I wouldn't describe myself as butch but I've never been much of one for makeup or jewelry or styling of any sort, prefer to slob around in comfortable clothes rather than, I guess, "flattering" things (although on special occasions I do like to glam up in the nerd-girl makeover way to various degrees of success, though those occasions are few and far between, and getting rarer the older I get.) Pretty much like fraula's description above: 'No makeup, "fuck it" hairstyle though at a "feminine" length.' I work on a military base and I'd say 40% of the time the gate guards call me "sir" when I'm going in, and then only about half that time correct themselves when they see the obviously female name on my ID.

I've been married 13 years now and with that guy for like 17 years in total. Something I definitely have observed throughout my life is that I have always gotten a lot less "play" as it were from American men (I am American) and have been shown much, much, much more interest from foreign or foreign-raised men (of which my husband is one), even in contexts where you could eliminate the (for want of a better word) exoticism factor, which has often led me to wonder about how cultural standards of beauty develop.

My mother was (and still is) always into make-up and jewelry and fixing her hair and fashion, though I otherwise wouldn't have described her as having a particularly feminine demeanor (she herself was a career military officer) but she failed to impart any of those skills, or even an understanding of the principles, to me.
posted by Hal Mumkin at 5:22 AM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


Watts in Some Kind of Wonderful is the drum-playing tomboyish best friend who eventually (spoiler) gets the guy. She's very like Holtzman in the new Ghostbusters. Two of my favorite cinematic role models.
posted by MsMolly at 7:09 AM on August 26, 2016


Dervla Murphy who wrote this book mentions many instances in which she was called 'sir'
posted by Kwadeng at 7:46 AM on August 26, 2016


Yes, I know a couple like this. She has short hair, is loud and brash and does a lot of physical labor. She was in the military and still talks about it a lot. He is more quiet, and a STEM professor. When she goes out of town he's almost inconsolable, he loves her so much.

(I think he was also in the military for some time? And that's how they met? But he's all academia now.)
posted by a fiendish thingy at 8:26 AM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]


Tomboy by Liz Prince is an excellent graphic memoir about this very topic.
posted by jillithd at 12:54 PM on August 26, 2016 [2 favorites]


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