What to do about insecure friend
August 22, 2016 12:39 PM   Subscribe

My friend thinks several of our mutual friends hate her. This is not true, but she is convinced that it is. She has taken to lashing out at me if I spend time with any of these people without her.

I can no longer be honest with her about what I do or who I see because she inevitably gets hurt. I used to invite her out to everything, but she has declined so much, giving the reason that it makes her too uncomfortable to be around certain people, that I stopped inviting her to as many things. Now if I tell her I did something with one of these people, she gets angry with me for not inviting her, because me not inviting her must mean that this other person(s) dislikes her. I can't win. I have tried to talk to her about it, but nothing has changed. We are adults. I am tired of dealing with drama and accusations when, literally, all I have done was spend time with someone she is convinced dislikes her. And it's not even true.

I don't know what to do at this point aside from taking a huge step back. This is not the first time she's been crappy to me. Each time she is crappy, I feel myself walking on eggshells around her more and more. I have spent a lot of energy trying to make her feel better about things and I feel exhausted at this point. Is it time to stop trying with this friendship?
posted by crunchy_cereals to Human Relations (28 answers total)
 
Yes, it's time to take a huge step back.

You can't manage someone else's anxiety for them.

I'm sorry.
posted by phunniemee at 12:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [17 favorites]


Anyone you have to walk on eggshells with isn't worth it unless they pay your bills or are holding the key to your cell.
posted by xingcat at 12:43 PM on August 22, 2016 [9 favorites]


Yes. Life's too short. She may escalate though, so be prepared for things to get worse before they get better.
posted by STFUDonnie at 12:44 PM on August 22, 2016


Anyone you have to walk on eggshells with isn't worth it unless they pay your bills or are holding the key to your cell.

Not even then.
posted by srboisvert at 12:47 PM on August 22, 2016 [7 favorites]


Don't be friends with people who are crappy to you. And for heaven's sake, don't come back for seconds once you've walked away!
posted by Lyn Never at 12:55 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


It is not your job to fix anyone. Support your friends in time of need, absolutely, but if the friendship is only ever about one-way giving -- time to step back.

You are not being a bad friend. This is not a friendship.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:21 PM on August 22, 2016 [2 favorites]


If you were married to someone who tried to separate you from other friendships and made you walk on eggshells, then we'd all tell you to pack your bags and run.

Pack up your friendship and run.
posted by 26.2 at 1:35 PM on August 22, 2016 [3 favorites]


If you think she's acting crappy to you then by all means end the friendship (and please don't slow fade this poor woman). But if you want to be friends with her, that is, if you really like this person a lot and want good things for her, and her only mistake is being honest that she's not feeling valued? Has anyone stopped to question why she thinks the others don't like her? Does she feel included in your conversations? Is she the one who's always being talked down to and never joked around with? Like she goes to make a joke and instead of hearing a joke the others hear a logic mistake and correct her like they would a child. From her point of view she's telling you that something is making her feel uncomfortable and under valued. What is that and do you care? If you don't, fine. If you do:

What I'm hearing in your question is that you tried 2 easy surface level approaches to your friend's discomfort but nothing about how you're actually empathizing with her and wanting her to feel genuinely at ease. What I'm hearing is "Oh well I tried telling her I'm doing this thing that makes her feel hurt, and I tried not telling her, and that's all I'm willing to do." If that's the case end the friendship because she's not really a friend. If she's actually your friend then yes there is more you can do.
posted by bleep at 1:50 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Regardless of what your other friends may or may not be doing to make her feel uncomfortable and under valued, she is the one who needs to be putting in the effort to make things work.

I used to invite her out to everything, but she has declined so much, giving the reason that it makes her too uncomfortable to be around certain people, that I stopped inviting her to as many things. Now if I tell her I did something with one of these people, she gets angry with me for not inviting her, because me not inviting her must mean that this other person(s) dislikes her. I can't win.

A good rule of thumb is that, short of actual abuse/harmful/mean behavior, if you have two friends who don't like each other, you should drop the one who makes you choose. And I think this rule applies very clearly here -- she has a problem with other people, but she's making it your problem. And it sounds like she's doing it in the most passive-aggressive way possible too: "Oh, I can't go to that party, X doesn't like me, but I'd love to hang out just the two of us!" This isn't something that you can fix -- friend and X need to work it out amongst themselves.

It would be different if it were something like "Oh, I can't go to that party, X drinks too much and gets obnoxious which makes me uncomfortable," or even a doozy like "Oh I can't go to that party, X and I have had disagreements in the past and I'm respecting her explicit wish that I not attend functions she is hosting" But this is silly child stuff,and you have my internet permission to end this friendship.

I will also argue for the slow fade by anecdote: I have slow faded on people like this before as a protection mechanism for myself, and I felt and feel no shame for that. For what it's worth, one of those people did some growing up (and, I suspect, got some therapy) and is a much more pleasant person to be around nowadays. She's the one who reached out to me after a few years of social media silence and I wouldn't say she's a best friend, but I can enjoy spending time with her (and others!) again. I think if we had had some kind of "I'm sorry, I can't be friends with you anymore" conversation, things would have been said that would hinder the relationship that we have now.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:07 PM on August 22, 2016 [4 favorites]


Also, remember that you are perfectly entitled to spend time with someone who does actively dislike her. Whether she is imagining something or not is not really your concern here.

If you're getting nothing but drama and accusations then it isn't really a friendship at all. She's just someone you know who gives you a hard time.
posted by tillsbury at 2:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [8 favorites]


I'm just saying it can be hard to make things work when just pointing out the problem is ~* TEH DRAMMZZ*~ right off the bat.
If she is your friend, try to help your friend.
posted by bleep at 2:17 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


How old are you guys?

If under 25, I would sit her down and tell her something that a good friend once said to me:

"Nobody has a problem with you. High school is over. People have their own lives and interests and don't spend time creating drama around who likes who and who hates who and all the rest. I get that you had a hard time as a teenager, but that part of your life is over. You need to move forward assuming that your friends like you and nobody else really cares that much. Or at least take my word for it about things like this."

If over 25 I would probably just back away.
posted by Sara C. at 2:29 PM on August 22, 2016 [25 favorites]


It's not clear whether you are getting anything positive out of this friendship. Do you enjoy spending time with her one on one? Are there shared activities you like to do together? If yes, then focus on those, and just don't discuss other aspects of your social life with her. Understand that some people get very anxious when they hear about things they're not part of. If no, just do the slow fade.

Her problems with mutual friends/acquaintances are just that, her problems. IMHO, you've already been quite accommodating by trying to avoid putting her in situations where she'd be in contact with people whose company she doesn't enjoy. If she calls you on hanging out with those people, say something along the lines of "look, I have other friends and I am not going to answer to you about the time I spend with them, any more than I would answer to them about time I spend with you." If she quizzes you about what the others say or feel about her, say "I don't know, you don't come up in our conversations. If you want to know about person X, you will have to talk to X."

Then stick with that. Don't get dragged into being monkey-in-the-middle in her relationships. If she can't handle that, then your friendship will probably end, but at least the drama won't be on your end.
posted by rpfields at 5:48 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


I might try one more thing, essentially Sara C's conversation only nicer:
So friend, I know you think other friend doesn't like you, but I hope you trust that *I* like you. If I thought they didn't like you or said anything mean, I would stand up for you. As it turns out, I haven't needed to, not once. So it's ok if you don't want to socialize with other friend, but I need you to relax and trust me when I do.
posted by ctmf at 9:09 PM on August 22, 2016 [1 favorite]


Yes, stop trying, and tell her why. Telling her why is the nicest thing you could do for her. She's not being a good friend.
posted by destructive cactus at 12:53 AM on August 23, 2016


If she was at one point a good friend, or if she's a friend you'd like to keep, you could try explaining all of this gently. It would be kind. I'm a little surprised nobody has said this yet. I don't have the perfect script, but just addressing it compassionately but directly might help. She seems to have a sensitivity or anxiety, and if it's damaging other relationships, it would be kind to let her know. "Sarah, I feel a little odd about something. I know that you think Bob and Sal don't like you. They've never said anything to me about you. I feel awkward when you ask me about it. I don't like being stuck in the middle. I am not going to drop them as friends. The pressure I feel from you about this is uncomfortable to me."
posted by salvia at 2:22 AM on August 23, 2016


Response by poster: Thanks for all the responses. I should add that I have tried to talk to her in some of the ways that were suggested in the past. Also adding, sometimes the people she is convinced dislike her have invited her out for things, which, to me, would indicate they like her. She has gone to some of these things and has ended up running out of the room, crying, leaving everyone else flabbergasted. I have tried to understand what makes her feel so uncomfortable and help her, but she does not talk about it. She gets defensive. She feels judged.
posted by crunchy_cereals at 7:43 AM on August 23, 2016


Your friend is suffering from pretty serious social anxiety at the very least, maybe something worse, but the thing is: you can't fix this. She will have to want to fix it and choose to go to the doctors and probably take the medicine and probably go to the therapy. You can't make her, you can't do it for her, and playing into it doesn't do either of you any favors.

You can bring it up once, like, "Friend I wish I could make you feel better and understand this, but I'm not a doctor and I can't make you get help. I hope you find a way through this, but I have a life of my own to manage here." Maybe that will be her giant neon arrow to do something, maybe she'll have to get much worse before something sticks.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:02 AM on August 23, 2016


Response by poster: Rock 'em Sock 'em yes, it is the interrogating that is getting to be impossible to handle. I don't post photos or talk about things I'm doing if I know someone isn't invited. I just don't. However, when asked "what did you do this weekend?" I answer honestly. We both have friends in the same group that we do things with together and individually. She is the only one who has these problems and she makes me feel like I'm being a bad friend by doing anything that doesn't include her. Was looking for any new ideas for things I haven't tried, but I think I'm just done at this point. Thanks!
posted by crunchy_cereals at 9:27 AM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Best answer: FWIW, I think there is no reason that you can't post things to social media. No one is entitled to attend every event. You don't need to skulk around and hide your other friendships. There are many reasons that people aren't invited to a particular gathering - venue size, the number of tickets, specific shared interests. This isn't junior high. We don't all need to go to the bathroom together to be friends.

If you are being manipulated into being secretive, then your relationship is unhealthy.
posted by 26.2 at 10:46 AM on August 23, 2016 [9 favorites]


Oh yes, I would moonwalk so hard out of this picture without second thoughts.

However, and this is a pretty major however, I'm not sure from your question and follow-up how long you've been friends, and how close you were in the past.

Because if this is someone you've known for a long time, and has gone through a lot with you, I'd behave a lot differently. Can you follow up about that?
posted by amicamentis at 1:37 PM on August 23, 2016


Response by poster: We have been close friends for over 10 years. We have made it through several other instances where she's lashed out at me for various things, but I'm not so sure there's an end to the behavior. I have turned to other friends in the past who have experienced the same kind of treatment from her for advice, and they have dealt with it by distancing from her for awhile. I have tried this too, but going back into being friends with her each time involves a new set of things I can't say or people I can't talk about. It's too much.
posted by crunchy_cereals at 2:01 PM on August 23, 2016


Best answer: If this has been a pattern for a long time, then I agree, I don't see much changing.

What would happen if next time you hung out together and she got all anxious and dramatic and angry and insulty, you just... called her out on it, and left? I promise, you don't have to endure it!

"Friend, you keep bringing up how much people hate you and I don't see how anything I have said has helped. Your issues are with them, not me, so let's get back to hanging out together and not focus on that anymore."

or

"Friend, I see you getting angry because I went shopping with Amanda the other day. I don't like that you're using that to prove a point about how no one likes you. You put me in a position of either lying or making you angry, and that's not fair."

or

"Friend, that was a crappy thing you said to me right now. We are adults now and that is not an acceptable way to behave to anyone, let alone someone that you are friends with."

If your friend keeps behaving badly, you can just... leave. It's a beautiful thing. You've said your say, you've been clear, and the consequence of continuing her bad behavior is that your outings get cut short.

It doesn't sound like this behavior is out of the blue for her, but if it has gotten dramatically worse lately, you may want to gently recommend that she talk to someone about her feelings of abandonment and exclusion.
posted by amicamentis at 2:36 PM on August 23, 2016 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: She never acts this way in person. In person, she will cry and leave if it's a group setting or if it's one-on-one, she will not say a word about being hurt or bothered. She will act like everything is fine in person, but then follow up later with text messages like "that thing you said/did really hurt me." Or questions like "did you not invite me to thing with x because x hates me?"
posted by crunchy_cereals at 2:57 PM on August 23, 2016


Are you 100% certain that she doesn't have an undiagnosed anxiety disorder? Because a decade of constant and ever-shifting drama of this kind implies that there is a lot more going on here than just "girlfriend never got over junior high" or "this chick is supes annoying".

I can't think of a single friend of mine who has ever cried and stormed out of anything since high school, and I know some real jerks.
posted by Sara C. at 4:53 PM on August 23, 2016 [4 favorites]


Response by poster: Yes, she has anxiety and depression. She has been in therapy and off and on with medication. I'm not sure what her current situation is with that. She gets very defensive when asked about it. I know it goes much deeper than her just being annoying, but I don't know how to be a friend to someone who wants to control me so she is more comfortable.
posted by crunchy_cereals at 6:58 AM on August 24, 2016


Best answer: [People aren't] entitled to tell everyone all about an event they weren't invited to and expect everyone to be just thrilled for them.

No one is asking for this -- OP just wants her friend to not act like an abusive boyfriend about it.

No one cares about you and your friends having a GREAT TIME at the event they weren't invited to.

I do, because I like to know what sorts of things my friends are up to (if they feel like sharing), this isn't a problem for me or my social media friends because we are relatively mentally stable adults. OP's friend also cares, but in a toxic way.

OP, the more you share about this person the less I feel that it's a good idea for you to try to make this work (via boundary enforcing and the like). I am sure that a lot of her actions are caused by the fact that she is sick, and she deserves compassion and empathy for that. But her illness isn't your fault, and "compassion and empathy" doesn't include being controlled and manipulated.

If I were your friend in real life, I would not want you to let this person hurt you anymore. Therefore, while I advocated for the slow fade before, I now think that an explicit demand for no-contact and blocking is more in order:

Email/Text "Hi Friend, I want to let you know that I no longer wish to continue our friendship. I'll be blocking you on social media and my phone. I request that you do not attempt to contact me unless I contact you first. I wish you all the best, OP." Hit send, then block. Don't give her a chance to negotiate how she'll "change." Do your best not to talk about her with your mutual friends except to say that you don't want to interact with her any more. If she stays on your general radar, consider reaching out in a couple or three years.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:29 PM on August 24, 2016 [3 favorites]


Your assertion that we're all above feelings of regret, exclusion, or sadness because we're "mentally stable adults" is disgusting.

I'm sorry that I worded this poorly enough to leave you with the impression that that is what I meant. To the degree that "mentally stable adults" feel "regret, exclusion, or sadness," over facebook posts of other people's parties, they don't take that out on the people making the posts. Maybe they'll do some creative blocking, maybe they'll do some unfriending, maybe they'll think to themselves "hey, that looked like a fun thing, I wish I was there" and then go about their days.

But they don't send questions like "did you not invite me to thing with x because x hates me?" At least not to the extent that OP has to deal with.

...it's typically not a great habit to tell people about things they're not invited to. In fact, it used to be standard etiquette pre-Facebook.

I agree that off-Facebook, you shouldn't tell people about things they aren't invited to, unless they ask (which, of course, OP's friend does).

The difference between Facebook posts and in-person or one-on-one conversations is that on Facebook, Person A can say whatever they want, and it's Person B's choice to listen. The etiquette is different because the medium is different. The fact that of OP's friends, only one seems to have a problem with the posts seems to be proof that the problem here isn't OP being impolite.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:49 AM on August 26, 2016


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