Ripping != Playing ?

December 30, 2005 7:58 PM

Why do some PC game CDs and DVDs play and install just fine on my machine, but absolutely refuse to be backed up? I'm not entirely sure it's due to actual copy protection schemes.

I've tried using every piece of software I can get my grubby paws on, including Alcohol 120%, Nero Burning ROM, a WinXP PowerToy that copies optical discs, and even good old 'dd' on my PowerBook. None of them work--they all report read errors almost right away; attempts to override these errors don't seem to do much good.

The discs themselves are in pristine condition and play/install perfectly on the same machine, which is why I am baffled about this apparent difference in the way the OS and the ripping apps are reading them.

I haven't been able to find any info about copy protection on the specific games in question (Civilization IV, realMyst are the two I'm mostly futzing with) and I could swear that we were past that point in terms of backing up discs--e.g., I remember years ago hearing of Software X that could make a perfect bit-for-bit copy of a disc and thus get around copy protection. Plus, I would assume that out of the games I have successfully imaged without problems (about ten or so) at least a few would have had the same copy protection as is on the ones which don't work.

While it's not entirely relevant, I will note that I load the images that do work, with tools such as Alcohol and Daemon-Tools--the whole point of this exercise in frustration is to "iTunes my games" such that I don't have to swap discs every time I want to stop playing Game X and play Game Y instead. And without nasty, possibly virus-laden "crackz" and hacked EXE files.

posted by cyrusdogstar to computers & internet (14 comments total)

Oh yea--and I've searched around on this a fair bit, but it's very difficult because 99.9% of the posts/websites on the subject deal with video DVDs, which doesn't help me much at all.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 8:01 PM on December 30, 2005

Certain types of copy protection , such as Safedisc, will cause exactly the sort of read errors you're encountering. Safedisc also happens to be one of the most widely used copy protection schemes at the moment (and has been for a couple of years at least). More advanced protection schemes will even detect the presence of programs like Alcohol 120% and Daemon Tools and will refuse to run unless such programs are uninstalled.

Needless to say, the easiest and most effective way to get around these protections is not to buy the game at all and use the cracked version, easily found on any big torrent site. This is probably not what game developers and publishers had in mind when they started using the latest wave of copy protection methods.
posted by chrominance at 8:29 PM on December 30, 2005

I should mention that the article I linked to is very old, and only refers to Safedisc v1 and v2; Safedisc is up to at least v4 now, and so the circumvention methods in the article likely won't work with anything made since 2004. CDMediaWorld is a good place to start if you want to get the lay of the land.
posted by chrominance at 8:37 PM on December 30, 2005

Perhaps check out CloneCD...

CloneCD is the perfect tool to make backup copies of your music and data CDs, regardless of copy protection. CloneCD's award-winning user interface allows you to copy almost any CD in just a few mouse clicks.
posted by VulcanMike at 8:43 PM on December 30, 2005

Yep, CloneCD works great for copying Safedisc protected games (for personal backups, of course). When ripping the image it'll progress extremely slowly for the first 5% or so, but after that it goes much, much faster. YMMV with games protected with other copy protection systems; for games using StarForce, for example, you're probably out of luck (for now, anyway).

Also, GameCopyWorld is a pretty reliable source for cd-cracks. I've never had problems with viruses or whatnot there, for what it's worth.
posted by The Pusher Robot at 9:14 PM on December 30, 2005

CloneDisc US version is intentionally hobbled in the extent of its copying fidelity and anti-copy protection circumvention. You need to first possess a CD recorder capable of emulating and amplifying "weak sectors" during writing - not all CD/DVD recorders can do this, and their adroitness varies. Additionally, CloneCD uses a simple Windows locale-based detection routine at startup to disable access to these functions and to any "Protected Game" backup profiles. This is something annoying to do with DMCA, and is easily circumvented, but if I told you how, then MeFi would be in contravention of said act.
posted by meehawl at 9:32 PM on December 30, 2005

Dont forget no-cd cracks will actually speed up the load time, that cd-check is crazy when you play an online game that needs a serial.
posted by IronWolve at 11:52 PM on December 30, 2005

I've always wondered how these products can still use the CD and DVD logos and branding. Doesn't a deliberately malformed image mean that they aren't meeting the standards? I suppose that has nothing to do with them being allowed to use the logos though.
posted by joegester at 12:32 AM on December 31, 2005

Civ4 definitely has copy protection that could make it impossible to copy. Many new games have it as well. Clonedisc may or may not work

As far as I know, there's no elegant solution to the Starforce copy protection system, which is shipping in all new Ubisoft games and many others (and even game demos these days). To tell the truth, I generally just download off bittorrent whatever game I just bought, and back that up. Sigh.
posted by JZig at 12:51 AM on December 31, 2005

More advanced protection schemes will even detect the presence of programs like Alcohol 120% and Daemon Tools and will refuse to run unless such programs are uninstalled.

Uninstalled, or hidden...
posted by benzo8 at 2:53 AM on December 31, 2005

civ 4 is not impossible to copy. I copied my copy so that I could play without the CD. I had to use clone CD and it took for freaking ever. But, it did work.

If you plan on using alcohol or daemon tools, you'll want to get a program called sd4hide which hides them from safedisc...
posted by jaded at 6:32 AM on December 31, 2005

Thanks for all the replies!

I think I tried CloneCD at one point, too, and it exhibited the same issues as the rest.

However, I did just leave Alcohol ripping Civ IV overnight, and it seems to have worked! It took a little over 2 hours all told, but it thinks it finished okay; the image loads in Daemon-Tools okay; and it appears to run fine. So I guess that backs up jaded and The Pusher Robot's experiences.

As for games even refusing to play when copying apps are around, I thankfully have yet to run into that issue.

Finally, pertaining to visiting GameCopyWorld and its brethren, I did state in the original post that I really don't want to have to do that. I've done it plenty of times in the past, certainly like when I was pirating games instead of purchasing them...ah, college but nowadays I'd prefer not to go that route if I can avoid it.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 9:27 AM on December 31, 2005

Glad you could back up your CD. Alcohol 120% has an extra feature that has it quickly skip errors rather than retry over and over again. This makes it rip a Safedisc CD pretty quickly.
posted by Nelson at 10:42 AM on December 31, 2005

Actually, I don't think my DVD drive supports that, because I played with every damn feature I could find in Alcohol--including that one--and none of them made a difference in terms of skipping the errors quickly. Kind of annoying, but meh.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 11:15 AM on December 31, 2005