Baby name, family drama
July 19, 2016 6:37 AM Subscribe
I'd like to give my baby a middle name that will honor my father. It's also my brother's middle name, and he's not on board with the idea. Help me think through this.
My father, who is deceased, passed his middle name on to my brother. This was also my paternal great-grandfather's middle name (my grandmother's father). I am having a baby (my first) in a few months and would like to honor my father my giving my baby this same middle name. It's not entirely a gender-specific name, but for the purposes of giving all details I do know that my baby is a boy. The naming history goes like this (not real names):
Great-Grandfather = John Miller Rollins
Father = Ralph Miller Simmons
Brother = Patrick Miller Simmons
My brother is 41 and unmarried, though he has been dating his girlfriend for about 4 years. I mentioned to him yesterday that we are considering the name "Miller" for a middle name and asked him what he thought about that. He immediately replied in anger, "well, if you had asked me I would have told you that that is my name and I have always planned to give it to my child." I was a bit taken aback, told him, "I did just ask you what you thought, and I would like to honor our father with this name, but nothing is decided."
He then told me that since our grandparents had not given my father's older sibling the middle name, I should take that into consideration - like, since they had given their first born child a different middle name that likely reflected my grandfather's side of the family, it would make sense for me to give my child a name that would reflect my husband's father or someone in his family. This is not an unusual line of thinking for my brother.
He also texted me multiple times later in the evening expressing his disbelief that I had not considered his feelings, while also acknowledging that he had never told me he had planned to give his name to his child. I repeated that it was not just his name, it was also our great-grandfather and most importantly, our father's middle name. He suggested I consider other family names, such as John, Rollins, or Ralph - but none of those work with our potential first names or have the same emotional impact to me.
I was very close to my father and would really like to include his memory in my child's name. Am I being selfish to want to use a name that is also my brother's middle name? Can you help me see this from both sides or help me feel better about my brother's argument? I can't figure out if I am being too emotional, too selfish, or reasonable in thinking it should be okay to use this name.
My father, who is deceased, passed his middle name on to my brother. This was also my paternal great-grandfather's middle name (my grandmother's father). I am having a baby (my first) in a few months and would like to honor my father my giving my baby this same middle name. It's not entirely a gender-specific name, but for the purposes of giving all details I do know that my baby is a boy. The naming history goes like this (not real names):
Great-Grandfather = John Miller Rollins
Father = Ralph Miller Simmons
Brother = Patrick Miller Simmons
My brother is 41 and unmarried, though he has been dating his girlfriend for about 4 years. I mentioned to him yesterday that we are considering the name "Miller" for a middle name and asked him what he thought about that. He immediately replied in anger, "well, if you had asked me I would have told you that that is my name and I have always planned to give it to my child." I was a bit taken aback, told him, "I did just ask you what you thought, and I would like to honor our father with this name, but nothing is decided."
He then told me that since our grandparents had not given my father's older sibling the middle name, I should take that into consideration - like, since they had given their first born child a different middle name that likely reflected my grandfather's side of the family, it would make sense for me to give my child a name that would reflect my husband's father or someone in his family. This is not an unusual line of thinking for my brother.
He also texted me multiple times later in the evening expressing his disbelief that I had not considered his feelings, while also acknowledging that he had never told me he had planned to give his name to his child. I repeated that it was not just his name, it was also our great-grandfather and most importantly, our father's middle name. He suggested I consider other family names, such as John, Rollins, or Ralph - but none of those work with our potential first names or have the same emotional impact to me.
I was very close to my father and would really like to include his memory in my child's name. Am I being selfish to want to use a name that is also my brother's middle name? Can you help me see this from both sides or help me feel better about my brother's argument? I can't figure out if I am being too emotional, too selfish, or reasonable in thinking it should be okay to use this name.
No, you are not being selfish. It's a middle name and there's nothing unusual about cousins sharing middle names. My middle name is the same as my grandfather's, and I share it with at least 5 cousins on that side of the family (I have a lot of cousins, so that's just how many I can list off the top of my head).
posted by amarynth at 6:42 AM on July 19, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by amarynth at 6:42 AM on July 19, 2016 [27 favorites]
Your brother sounds unhinged to me. Do you know if he's... well? Because his reaction is extreme. We're talking about middle names, for goodness sake.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 6:42 AM on July 19, 2016 [76 favorites]
posted by schroedingersgirl at 6:42 AM on July 19, 2016 [76 favorites]
I think your brother is being selfish. My son and my cousin share my grandfather's name as their middle name and no one batted an eye about it. If anything, it was a double honor. There is no limit to how many times a name can be used. Like, the name won't expire or something.
posted by cooker girl at 6:43 AM on July 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 6:43 AM on July 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's also my brother's middle name, and he's not on board with the idea.
Your child, your choice.
He also texted me multiple times later in the evening expressing his disbelief that I had not considered his feelings,
But you did consider his feelings, explicitly - you said you were considering that name and asked for his input.
I was very close to my father and would really like to include his memory in my child's name.
That's all the reason you need. Your brother is being selfish and unkind.
posted by headnsouth at 6:43 AM on July 19, 2016 [34 favorites]
Your child, your choice.
He also texted me multiple times later in the evening expressing his disbelief that I had not considered his feelings,
But you did consider his feelings, explicitly - you said you were considering that name and asked for his input.
I was very close to my father and would really like to include his memory in my child's name.
That's all the reason you need. Your brother is being selfish and unkind.
posted by headnsouth at 6:43 AM on July 19, 2016 [34 favorites]
I don't know. I'm going to buck the trend and say, find another name. 1. Your brother feels strongly about this, and 2. He sounds like potentially a poor role model for your child. And since he will be the living relative who has the matching name.... What about altering the tradition and using your father's first name as your child's middle? Then you have the direct opportunity to share your love and admiration of your father and instill pride in your child.
I might take the opportunity, if you do acquiesce, to tell your brother directly, "I came to you to see how you would feel about this. I had no idea that you would feel so strongly and that you would then harangue and harass me for something that I thought would be honoring. This has harmed my feelings toward you and I'm going to need some space."
A more charitable read is that you unknowingly stepped on a raw nerve that your brother may have not even realized he had on the issue. Men yearn for families, too.
posted by amanda at 6:51 AM on July 19, 2016 [53 favorites]
I might take the opportunity, if you do acquiesce, to tell your brother directly, "I came to you to see how you would feel about this. I had no idea that you would feel so strongly and that you would then harangue and harass me for something that I thought would be honoring. This has harmed my feelings toward you and I'm going to need some space."
A more charitable read is that you unknowingly stepped on a raw nerve that your brother may have not even realized he had on the issue. Men yearn for families, too.
posted by amanda at 6:51 AM on July 19, 2016 [53 favorites]
Of the four girl grandchildren in my family, two of us have the middle name Marie. When my aunt and uncle chose to give their daughter the same middle name I had, I thought it was cool. And they didn't ask me at all. On the boys' side there are two Johns, one as a middle name and one as a first. Throughout my family history, each generation has had at least two of the following Sam, John, James, Jane, or Rachel. In fact, in the last four generations there have been 5 Johns (one came in via marriage). Names get reused like whoa and your brother shouldn't get so bent.
posted by teleri025 at 6:56 AM on July 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by teleri025 at 6:56 AM on July 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
One of my cousins shares my middle name with similar family connections, and we all like it, as far as I know. However, it sounds like you asked your brother's permission to use the name and he didn't give it. *I* think he's being ridiculous, but you gave him the option to say no. He said no. Find another way to honor your father's memory.
posted by tchemgrrl at 6:56 AM on July 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by tchemgrrl at 6:56 AM on July 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
I normally like to keep the peace in these situations but, I'm having a hard time with this one.
I do genealogy and constantly see families that have several siblings name after parents' father. (Making it very confusing to research 2 or 3 of the same generation with the same name).
Your brother's name is a FAMILY name, not his. Why "save" a name for IF your brother has a kid, IF he has a boy, and IF his partner agrees to the name.
posted by ReluctantViking at 7:09 AM on July 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
I do genealogy and constantly see families that have several siblings name after parents' father. (Making it very confusing to research 2 or 3 of the same generation with the same name).
Your brother's name is a FAMILY name, not his. Why "save" a name for IF your brother has a kid, IF he has a boy, and IF his partner agrees to the name.
posted by ReluctantViking at 7:09 AM on July 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
Use it. You weren't asking him for permission at all, only what he thought of you using the name as a way to connect your child to your father, an opinion. It's a middle name - if anything, you're also honouring your kid's connecting to their uncle.
Unless there is something way more going on you haven't mentioned - inheritance issues, a very strong family pressure to only use a name once, huge favouritism where he was a black sheep, infertility etc - he's showing very poor boundaries because you're both children of your father equally and you have an actual child to name now. You have to think if it's just his general drama style or if this is a particularly sensitive area for him that you might just decide is off-limits.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:09 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Unless there is something way more going on you haven't mentioned - inheritance issues, a very strong family pressure to only use a name once, huge favouritism where he was a black sheep, infertility etc - he's showing very poor boundaries because you're both children of your father equally and you have an actual child to name now. You have to think if it's just his general drama style or if this is a particularly sensitive area for him that you might just decide is off-limits.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:09 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
My mom and one of her first cousins were both born within a few months of each other and were both named after their recently-deceased grandmother. They have the same first name. They grew up referring to each other (and still do) as "shared_name-distinct_middle_name" for disambiguation in family scenarios.
It would maybe be different for me if you brother already had a child to whom he had given the name you were also trying to use.
Seriously, he should and probably will get over it, if people can manage sharing first names with similarly aged cousins they should very easily be able to handle a common middle name.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 7:10 AM on July 19, 2016
It would maybe be different for me if you brother already had a child to whom he had given the name you were also trying to use.
Seriously, he should and probably will get over it, if people can manage sharing first names with similarly aged cousins they should very easily be able to handle a common middle name.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 7:10 AM on July 19, 2016
My grandfathers shared the same first name. My uncle has that name as his middle name. As does one of my cousins. As do I. As does one of my sons. It's also a common name on my wife's side of the family, and one of my nephews has it for a first name.
Middle names are so seldom used for anything that it's not going to be a big deal. I'd be reluctant to give a child the same first name as another close family member, but that would just be to avoid confusion.
Your brother's being an asshole about something... I get the feeling that this argument is a proxy for something deeper, though. Does he resent you for conceiving first?
posted by pipeski at 7:10 AM on July 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Middle names are so seldom used for anything that it's not going to be a big deal. I'd be reluctant to give a child the same first name as another close family member, but that would just be to avoid confusion.
Your brother's being an asshole about something... I get the feeling that this argument is a proxy for something deeper, though. Does he resent you for conceiving first?
posted by pipeski at 7:10 AM on July 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Your brother's reaction is bizarre (of course cousins can have the same MIDDLE name, jeez!), but I guess it just depends how strongly you feel about a) the name and b) offending/not offending your brother. On the one hand, using the name will apparently make your brother freak out. On the other hand, who's to say that your brother will ever have a kid and if he does whether he will actually end up using the name.
Your brother's being an asshole about something... I get the feeling that this argument is a proxy for something deeper, though. Does he resent you for conceiving first?
This is my thought too - maybe he wanted to use the name FIRST.
posted by mskyle at 7:12 AM on July 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
Your brother's being an asshole about something... I get the feeling that this argument is a proxy for something deeper, though. Does he resent you for conceiving first?
This is my thought too - maybe he wanted to use the name FIRST.
posted by mskyle at 7:12 AM on July 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'll agree that your brother's reaction was a bit extreme. And it's definitely reasonable to use the name - no one "owns" a name.
But I have to ask - what was the point of asking your brother what he thought about it if you are going to ignore his feelings on the matter?
Now that you have broached the topic you may have to be delicate with it. Not that you *can't* use the name, but you may have to put in some effort to get your brother on board, like discussing how great it is that your brother has that middle name and what an honor to your father it would be if cousins on both sides used it. You're not obligated to do that, but if you want to keep the peace it might be a good idea.
posted by Tehhund at 7:15 AM on July 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
But I have to ask - what was the point of asking your brother what he thought about it if you are going to ignore his feelings on the matter?
Now that you have broached the topic you may have to be delicate with it. Not that you *can't* use the name, but you may have to put in some effort to get your brother on board, like discussing how great it is that your brother has that middle name and what an honor to your father it would be if cousins on both sides used it. You're not obligated to do that, but if you want to keep the peace it might be a good idea.
posted by Tehhund at 7:15 AM on July 19, 2016 [9 favorites]
You asked for your brother's opinion, not his permission, and now you know what he thinks of your name choice. His opinion is but one bit of information that you can use as you continue to weigh this decision. What is more important to you, your brother's feelings or honoring your father in this way?
Is this kind of behavior typical for your brother? If it is, I suggest you not give too much weight to his opinion. The kind of person who is resentful by nature will look for reasons to be mad and nothing is gained by acquiescing to them because there will always be another unreasonable demand to be made once you've given in on this one. Don't let a great name go to waste just to satisfy a person who can never truly be satisfied.
posted by scantee at 7:19 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Is this kind of behavior typical for your brother? If it is, I suggest you not give too much weight to his opinion. The kind of person who is resentful by nature will look for reasons to be mad and nothing is gained by acquiescing to them because there will always be another unreasonable demand to be made once you've given in on this one. Don't let a great name go to waste just to satisfy a person who can never truly be satisfied.
posted by scantee at 7:19 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
I (the eldest in my family) share my middle name with my father (also the eldest) and his mother (also the eldest) and her father (also the eldest). No one else in the family shares that name (first, middle, or last). If my younger sibling gave his eldest child that middle name, I would be miffed. If the sibling asked me first for my feelings and then proceeded to do it anyway, I would be supremely miffed.
Be honest - you liked that name stylistically the most of the possible names and you thought your brother wouldn't care. Now, he does care, and you don't want to settle for a name of your father's that you like less. Why ask your brother for his feelings if you're going to proceed to ignore them? Choose a different name.
posted by sallybrown at 7:30 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Be honest - you liked that name stylistically the most of the possible names and you thought your brother wouldn't care. Now, he does care, and you don't want to settle for a name of your father's that you like less. Why ask your brother for his feelings if you're going to proceed to ignore them? Choose a different name.
posted by sallybrown at 7:30 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
How close was your brother to your father? You say that you were close, but not how they were.
I personally think that it shouldn't be this big of a deal, but, I can see where if he was also close to your father, it would sting to feel like something special he shared with his father is something you're getting to "take" first.
It doesn't really matter whether your brother is being selfish or unreasonable. He feels how he feels and now you know. The price of giving your child the name you want is knowing that it will probably foster resentment, especially if your brother has children someday. Is the name worth it to you? There's not really a right answer.
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:34 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
I personally think that it shouldn't be this big of a deal, but, I can see where if he was also close to your father, it would sting to feel like something special he shared with his father is something you're getting to "take" first.
It doesn't really matter whether your brother is being selfish or unreasonable. He feels how he feels and now you know. The price of giving your child the name you want is knowing that it will probably foster resentment, especially if your brother has children someday. Is the name worth it to you? There's not really a right answer.
posted by nakedmolerats at 7:34 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wait, this is about middle names? Who the crap cares about someone's middle name? I can barely remember my own brothers' middle names.
posted by xingcat at 7:34 AM on July 19, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 7:34 AM on July 19, 2016 [13 favorites]
I'd probably look for another name if it upset my brother that much, no matter how unhinged it might seem.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on July 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:41 AM on July 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
You're brother is being nuts.
But it's not worth the family drama to fight this.
posted by Jahaza at 7:43 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
But it's not worth the family drama to fight this.
posted by Jahaza at 7:43 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Um, isn't the point of a family name that several members of your family have the same name?
I don't know how to change your brother's mind about this because clearly there's some information unknown to us and not apparent to you, that would make all this make sense. With the information we have, your brother is being quite unreasonable and while he may have strong feelings about it, it's not clear that you owe it to him to do what he wants simply because he wants it.
If I were you, I'd give the family name to my actual child, because that doesn't stop your brother from naming his putative future child the same way. I'd do this because the name isn't the issue.
posted by tel3path at 7:44 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't know how to change your brother's mind about this because clearly there's some information unknown to us and not apparent to you, that would make all this make sense. With the information we have, your brother is being quite unreasonable and while he may have strong feelings about it, it's not clear that you owe it to him to do what he wants simply because he wants it.
If I were you, I'd give the family name to my actual child, because that doesn't stop your brother from naming his putative future child the same way. I'd do this because the name isn't the issue.
posted by tel3path at 7:44 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think your brother is being unreasonable and you could use the name if you want to. However, I agree with some of the above posters that if your intent is to honor your father, you should use his first name. Using this middle name is more of a nod to the family "Miller" tradition than it is explicitly a reference to your dad.
I can understand that your brother perhaps grew up with this intention in mind that his son would one day have his and his father's middle name, and he is reacting to the potential loss of that dream. Should he stifle those emotions and be more gracious to you? Of course! But he's not doing that, so you'll have to be the person who decides if this is a battle you want to pick with him. And a battle you want to involve your child in?
If you really want the name still, could you perhaps enlist your mother to talk to brother about it? I'm not sure if your mom would be an ally in this situation or even if she's still alive, but maybe she could be a person (who your brother will listen to), who will be able to recognize his attachment to the name, help explain what it would have meant to father to pass it on, and that of course cousins can share middle names.
And then.... another option is to look up the meaning of your father's first name and try to find a name that recognizes that. For instance, I have a friend who selected the name "Ryker" because it's a variation of Richard, which is a family name she wanted to honor.
Oh! Edited to add: You could also consider two middle names. I am really not sure if this would satisfy your brother - and if he's still cranky about this option too, then don't bother, BUT two middle names is a tradition too.
posted by areaperson at 7:45 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can understand that your brother perhaps grew up with this intention in mind that his son would one day have his and his father's middle name, and he is reacting to the potential loss of that dream. Should he stifle those emotions and be more gracious to you? Of course! But he's not doing that, so you'll have to be the person who decides if this is a battle you want to pick with him. And a battle you want to involve your child in?
If you really want the name still, could you perhaps enlist your mother to talk to brother about it? I'm not sure if your mom would be an ally in this situation or even if she's still alive, but maybe she could be a person (who your brother will listen to), who will be able to recognize his attachment to the name, help explain what it would have meant to father to pass it on, and that of course cousins can share middle names.
And then.... another option is to look up the meaning of your father's first name and try to find a name that recognizes that. For instance, I have a friend who selected the name "Ryker" because it's a variation of Richard, which is a family name she wanted to honor.
Oh! Edited to add: You could also consider two middle names. I am really not sure if this would satisfy your brother - and if he's still cranky about this option too, then don't bother, BUT two middle names is a tradition too.
posted by areaperson at 7:45 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have really limited patience for behaviour like your brother's. I'd probably use the name anyway, and if your brother gets mad about it tell him that he can either be an uncle or an asshole but not both.
But without knowing much more about your family dynamics/relationship with your brother, you should do whatever is going to make you feel happy/comfortable/safe. If the name isn't worth the stress of dealing with him being a dick during when you've got a ton of other newborn/postpartum stuff going on, let it go.
posted by terretu at 7:48 AM on July 19, 2016 [11 favorites]
But without knowing much more about your family dynamics/relationship with your brother, you should do whatever is going to make you feel happy/comfortable/safe. If the name isn't worth the stress of dealing with him being a dick during when you've got a ton of other newborn/postpartum stuff going on, let it go.
posted by terretu at 7:48 AM on July 19, 2016 [11 favorites]
I am also going to say find another name.
I agree your brother is being a little intense about this, but when someone tells you something is important to them you only get to decide if you're going to do it even though you know it's going to upset them. You don't get to decide if they are allowed to be upset.
I cannot think of any way in which you "winning" this fight makes things better for anybody, including your child. It seems like a bad foot to start out on.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:49 AM on July 19, 2016 [18 favorites]
I agree your brother is being a little intense about this, but when someone tells you something is important to them you only get to decide if you're going to do it even though you know it's going to upset them. You don't get to decide if they are allowed to be upset.
I cannot think of any way in which you "winning" this fight makes things better for anybody, including your child. It seems like a bad foot to start out on.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:49 AM on July 19, 2016 [18 favorites]
You asked your brother because you care what he thinks. If you were going to use the name regardless, what was the point in asking?
He's told you how he feels.
I wouldn't describe using the name at this point now that you know how he feels as "selfish" but I do think it's quite clearly inconsiderate. You would be choosing not to consider his strong feelings.
I think that the fact that he is actively suggesting other names that meet your intention is positive.
I agree that you may have stepped on a raw nerve.
On preview, Lyn Never's line bears repeating: I agree your brother is being a little intense about this, but when someone tells you something is important to them you only get to decide if you're going to do it even though you know it's going to upset them. You don't get to decide if they are allowed to be upset.
posted by bimbam at 7:52 AM on July 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
He's told you how he feels.
I wouldn't describe using the name at this point now that you know how he feels as "selfish" but I do think it's quite clearly inconsiderate. You would be choosing not to consider his strong feelings.
I think that the fact that he is actively suggesting other names that meet your intention is positive.
I agree that you may have stepped on a raw nerve.
On preview, Lyn Never's line bears repeating: I agree your brother is being a little intense about this, but when someone tells you something is important to them you only get to decide if you're going to do it even though you know it's going to upset them. You don't get to decide if they are allowed to be upset.
posted by bimbam at 7:52 AM on July 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
The territoriality of people never ceases to amaze me. When people say it's "my" name they forget that a) it belongs to potentially millions of other people and b) it's an arbitrary collection of letters. The only meaning names have is what we attach to them. So your brother has decided it means something to him, however it also means something to you, i.e. a connection between your child and your father. Why is your connection less valid than his? I also agree that this has hit a nerve for him in some way and that is why he is being kind of an asshole about it but he's a grown adult and it's his job to do his own self-awareness work. Why do the emotional labour of making a decision about your own child that you don't want to make purely to keep him happy?
I tend to take the view "when faced with a decision, do the thing you might regret not doing". Some people are worried about this fostering resentment in your bother. Let him deal with his own resentment. Not naming the baby the way you want to in order to placate your brother might lead you to always regret not honouring your Dad in the way you wanted to and cause you to resent your brother. Is it worth a lifetime of your resentment to save him his? If you're asking strangers for advice I'd say: ignore us, ignore your brother, do what your heart wants.
posted by billiebee at 7:52 AM on July 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
I tend to take the view "when faced with a decision, do the thing you might regret not doing". Some people are worried about this fostering resentment in your bother. Let him deal with his own resentment. Not naming the baby the way you want to in order to placate your brother might lead you to always regret not honouring your Dad in the way you wanted to and cause you to resent your brother. Is it worth a lifetime of your resentment to save him his? If you're asking strangers for advice I'd say: ignore us, ignore your brother, do what your heart wants.
posted by billiebee at 7:52 AM on July 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
You might introduce your own tradition in a way that is meaningful to you and that leaves your brother's issues outside. For example, in my family, the father's first names becomes the middle name of the next-generation boy. So your kid would be (indeed) Kidsname Ralph Yourlastname. You say Ralph doesn't fit with your projected name, but would there be any negotiation space there for you regarding the latter?
Problem no. 2 is obviously that your brother has issues, apparently involving a fragmented communication pattern in tandem with semi-outspoken guilting. It seems like you care enough about keeping things well to seriously consider what he says, even if it's unreasonable. That is fine, of course (although it sounds far from ideal from the outside).
To decrease the pressure around this particular situation, perhaps just repeat, as often as needed, that you in fact asked him this very question at that very moment because you actually did care about his feelings, and because you didn't know his thoughts around this name issue, and thanks for the information, and sorry your question upset him. Just repeat, don't engage. You may just be able to save your child from a later weird relationship with his uncle.
posted by Namlit at 7:53 AM on July 19, 2016
Problem no. 2 is obviously that your brother has issues, apparently involving a fragmented communication pattern in tandem with semi-outspoken guilting. It seems like you care enough about keeping things well to seriously consider what he says, even if it's unreasonable. That is fine, of course (although it sounds far from ideal from the outside).
To decrease the pressure around this particular situation, perhaps just repeat, as often as needed, that you in fact asked him this very question at that very moment because you actually did care about his feelings, and because you didn't know his thoughts around this name issue, and thanks for the information, and sorry your question upset him. Just repeat, don't engage. You may just be able to save your child from a later weird relationship with his uncle.
posted by Namlit at 7:53 AM on July 19, 2016
Your brother seems freakin' nuts, but I understand being weirdly, irrationally territorial about a name. Going with your dad's first name might be a better way to go. You say it doesn't work with your potential first names and that it doesn't 'mean' the same thing, but that's pretty subjective - you're just attached to the middle name right now.
Of course, none of this is to say you shouldn't go for the name you wanted... but you might not be able to repair your relationship with your brother afterward. If he has a history of acting like this, maybe that wouldn't be such a huge loss to you, but if he's just being really weird about this one thing, it might be worth giving in. It's ultimately all up to you, but be prepared for the possible consequences.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:54 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Of course, none of this is to say you shouldn't go for the name you wanted... but you might not be able to repair your relationship with your brother afterward. If he has a history of acting like this, maybe that wouldn't be such a huge loss to you, but if he's just being really weird about this one thing, it might be worth giving in. It's ultimately all up to you, but be prepared for the possible consequences.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:54 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
"He suggested I consider other family names, such as John, Rollins, or Ralph - but none of those work with our potential first names or have the same emotional impact to me."
I know very, very well how much time can be spent debating baby names, but as someone with a bit of perspective on the topic, please know that first names "working" with middle names is not at all the big deal it seems like when you're naming the baby. Middle names are simply almost never used in daily life, and they don't have to "flow" with first name. It would be enough for child to simply know, "my middle name is my grandpa's name." The only exception I can think of would be if the middle name changed the kid's initials into something a bit bad, like MF or WTF or something like that.
posted by areaperson at 8:00 AM on July 19, 2016 [12 favorites]
I know very, very well how much time can be spent debating baby names, but as someone with a bit of perspective on the topic, please know that first names "working" with middle names is not at all the big deal it seems like when you're naming the baby. Middle names are simply almost never used in daily life, and they don't have to "flow" with first name. It would be enough for child to simply know, "my middle name is my grandpa's name." The only exception I can think of would be if the middle name changed the kid's initials into something a bit bad, like MF or WTF or something like that.
posted by areaperson at 8:00 AM on July 19, 2016 [12 favorites]
This is not the hill you should choose to die on. That being said your brother isn't being reasonable about it, either.
I think you should give your brother some time to cool off and come back to this after you've had some nice no-name-drama time with him, and talk with him about how you want to honor your father and how close you felt to him, etc etc. Make sure your brother knows, also, that if he wants to name his future kid Miller you wouldn't mind at all and think that cousins sharing the name would be nice, because it seems like he sees this as you "taking" the name from him. But I don't know that any of these tactics will get you the result you want.
The only time middle names ever matter is if a person's first name becomes unpleasant for them and they start going by their middle name. Everything else is just initials and bank records. One alternative that was used in my family once was to give a child the same initials as the dead loved one. And then they inherited some of her things that had been engraved with those initials. Very sweet and also no family name conflict. If you really want to honor your dad, you might think about something else that evokes him for you that doesn't cause strife between your dad's children.
posted by Mizu at 8:08 AM on July 19, 2016
I think you should give your brother some time to cool off and come back to this after you've had some nice no-name-drama time with him, and talk with him about how you want to honor your father and how close you felt to him, etc etc. Make sure your brother knows, also, that if he wants to name his future kid Miller you wouldn't mind at all and think that cousins sharing the name would be nice, because it seems like he sees this as you "taking" the name from him. But I don't know that any of these tactics will get you the result you want.
The only time middle names ever matter is if a person's first name becomes unpleasant for them and they start going by their middle name. Everything else is just initials and bank records. One alternative that was used in my family once was to give a child the same initials as the dead loved one. And then they inherited some of her things that had been engraved with those initials. Very sweet and also no family name conflict. If you really want to honor your dad, you might think about something else that evokes him for you that doesn't cause strife between your dad's children.
posted by Mizu at 8:08 AM on July 19, 2016
Here's a question: what would your dad want?
My $.02: Your brother is being bizarre about this. You would be within your "rights" to do whatever you want. But you asked his opinion and now you know it, and he has this visceral reaction - I'm guessing it has to do some sort of sibling rivalry thing, and his frustration at not having the family stability you have. Count me among those who would use Ralph instead. It was your dad's name, right?
(Although another part of me just wants to tell your brother to get over it. Middle names really don't matter.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:19 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
My $.02: Your brother is being bizarre about this. You would be within your "rights" to do whatever you want. But you asked his opinion and now you know it, and he has this visceral reaction - I'm guessing it has to do some sort of sibling rivalry thing, and his frustration at not having the family stability you have. Count me among those who would use Ralph instead. It was your dad's name, right?
(Although another part of me just wants to tell your brother to get over it. Middle names really don't matter.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:19 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Your brother is childless at 41, and given that he's four years into a relationship which hasn't produced kids, he may never have them. (And yes it sounds harsh to write it out like that - maybe this is a sore point for him.) Regardless, does he get to call dibs on naming a fictitious child that could never eventuate while you have an actual baby that can be named? If you save this for him, it might not ever be used and no one will be honoured at all.
It reminds me of my eldest brother being annoyed that his younger sister had children before he did - he thought he should have had them first. It's irrational and you can't do anything about it, they just need to come to terms with it. I bet you'll find there's something deeper behind this.
Obviously this is no help here but for anyone else reading, the advice I was given when pregnant was to never discuss names until it was chosen and the baby was born and it was announced - purely because everyone has opinions and won't hesitate to let you know how much they hate your choice. Everything I have seen bears this out. Best of luck, this one is tricky.
posted by Jubey at 8:29 AM on July 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
It reminds me of my eldest brother being annoyed that his younger sister had children before he did - he thought he should have had them first. It's irrational and you can't do anything about it, they just need to come to terms with it. I bet you'll find there's something deeper behind this.
Obviously this is no help here but for anyone else reading, the advice I was given when pregnant was to never discuss names until it was chosen and the baby was born and it was announced - purely because everyone has opinions and won't hesitate to let you know how much they hate your choice. Everything I have seen bears this out. Best of luck, this one is tricky.
posted by Jubey at 8:29 AM on July 19, 2016 [10 favorites]
Unless you are also hugely emotionally tied to the middle name let your brother have it. Give your child your fathers first name as a middle name if you want to honor & remember him. As others have said, men have strong feelings about families too and add to that the culturally seem to give a lot more importance in carrying on their or family names (all the so&so juniors & so&so the thirds) out there.
I would when doing it let your brother know you did it out of consideration for his feelings & not because he was harassing you & that you'd appreciate it in future if he used his words like a grown up to express his feelings.
Of course another option is to realize middle names are silly & don't give your kid one at all. My parents had very territorial grandparents on both sides who all assumed naming rights so to avoid this let my brother & I choose our middle names & our religions. My middle name has no legal standing & has changed 3 times since I first picked it around the age of 7.
posted by wwax at 8:32 AM on July 19, 2016
I would when doing it let your brother know you did it out of consideration for his feelings & not because he was harassing you & that you'd appreciate it in future if he used his words like a grown up to express his feelings.
Of course another option is to realize middle names are silly & don't give your kid one at all. My parents had very territorial grandparents on both sides who all assumed naming rights so to avoid this let my brother & I choose our middle names & our religions. My middle name has no legal standing & has changed 3 times since I first picked it around the age of 7.
posted by wwax at 8:32 AM on July 19, 2016
One thing that might be an option is to be very conciliatory with him, tell him you didn't realize it would be so important to him but now that you think about it you can see the name must mean a lot to him too, and at the same time it does also mean a lot to you, and you know you can't pass on your father's last name* (unlike him) and so you really would like this to be your way of connecting your child and your new family with both your father and your entire birth family, including your brother, and especially including any cousins that might come along. That the idea of a family connected not only across generations but also across branches is something you really love. And then listen to his response, tell him to sleep on it for as long as he needs to, that you love him (even of his response here is still negative), etc. Hopefully, this will at least make the situation less emotionally fraught.
* all this assumes that your child will not have your father's last name, that in the worst case you would be willing to find some other solution, that middle names don't have some special rules/meaning specific to your family, and that your relationship with your brother is such that doing all this makes sense.
posted by trig at 8:37 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
* all this assumes that your child will not have your father's last name, that in the worst case you would be willing to find some other solution, that middle names don't have some special rules/meaning specific to your family, and that your relationship with your brother is such that doing all this makes sense.
posted by trig at 8:37 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Why is he unmarried? Why isn't he having a baby? This all sounds like jealousy to me. You are "stealing" his spot, having a kid first, and using the name he wanted. Is this a theme in your relationship generally?
My son has my brother/father/grandfather's middle name. Just before he was born my half-brother (different dad) came to the huge conclusion that he didn't want his own dad's name any more and changed his name to ours, including adopting this "family" middle name. Now technically it's an "eldest son" middle name. I only have one son BUT my half brother is older than my full brother so now it's slightly messier, having two "eldest's" in the mix. No one asked anyone except my dad (half bro's stepdad, who was flattered). I don't own the name, think it is cool that so many in our family have it (please note i am married but did NOT take my husband's name, my son is carrying MY surname) and it continues a tradition that would be lost (my son is the only one with my surname in his generation, neither of my brothers can have children and my cousins took their husband's names).
Your brother sounds like a brat. Imagine you don't call your son "Miller" but then there is a super annoying kid in his son's is grade class called that? I mean nobody OWNS a name! I don't know what to suggest you do. I called my son what i wanted and informed people after the fact, so if they were unhappy they didn't dare say.
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 8:57 AM on July 19, 2016
My son has my brother/father/grandfather's middle name. Just before he was born my half-brother (different dad) came to the huge conclusion that he didn't want his own dad's name any more and changed his name to ours, including adopting this "family" middle name. Now technically it's an "eldest son" middle name. I only have one son BUT my half brother is older than my full brother so now it's slightly messier, having two "eldest's" in the mix. No one asked anyone except my dad (half bro's stepdad, who was flattered). I don't own the name, think it is cool that so many in our family have it (please note i am married but did NOT take my husband's name, my son is carrying MY surname) and it continues a tradition that would be lost (my son is the only one with my surname in his generation, neither of my brothers can have children and my cousins took their husband's names).
Your brother sounds like a brat. Imagine you don't call your son "Miller" but then there is a super annoying kid in his son's is grade class called that? I mean nobody OWNS a name! I don't know what to suggest you do. I called my son what i wanted and informed people after the fact, so if they were unhappy they didn't dare say.
posted by intergalacticvelvet at 8:57 AM on July 19, 2016
I can't figure out if I am being too emotional, too selfish, or reasonable in thinking it should be okay to use this name.
It's perfectly OK to feel this way. Naming a baby is a pretty emotional decision. Plus in your shoes, I would be totally taken aback if I asked someone for their opinion and they reacted the way he did-- possibly making me even more attached to my choice.
You don't say whether your brother does this sort of thing often, or not. That would make a difference for me. If it's a one-off thing, and it means that much to him, it may just be worth conceding for good relations and to not put your kid in the situation of walking around with a name that pisses off his uncle. Yes, it's a middle name but things like that can get very blown out of proportion in families and he'll probably still be going on about it in 20 years. But if your brother does this all the time and gets his way, at some point it needs to stop.
posted by BibiRose at 9:05 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's perfectly OK to feel this way. Naming a baby is a pretty emotional decision. Plus in your shoes, I would be totally taken aback if I asked someone for their opinion and they reacted the way he did-- possibly making me even more attached to my choice.
You don't say whether your brother does this sort of thing often, or not. That would make a difference for me. If it's a one-off thing, and it means that much to him, it may just be worth conceding for good relations and to not put your kid in the situation of walking around with a name that pisses off his uncle. Yes, it's a middle name but things like that can get very blown out of proportion in families and he'll probably still be going on about it in 20 years. But if your brother does this all the time and gets his way, at some point it needs to stop.
posted by BibiRose at 9:05 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
As people have said, there may be a reason he has no kids. Maybe he and his girlfriend are infertile, maybe they have had miscarriages. I certainly haven't told my family (or my in laws) about my reproductive problems because I don't want to discuss it. Or maybe he doesn't want kids at all but feels bad he won't be carrying on the family tradition and is jealous that you are going to instead of him. Who knows?
If this is unusual behaviour for him, sit down and have a chat. For him to react so strongly suggests there is something else behind it. If this isn't unusual, no doubt you are well used to ignoring his tantrums already.
posted by tinkletown at 9:46 AM on July 19, 2016
If this is unusual behaviour for him, sit down and have a chat. For him to react so strongly suggests there is something else behind it. If this isn't unusual, no doubt you are well used to ignoring his tantrums already.
posted by tinkletown at 9:46 AM on July 19, 2016
Drop the subject entirely. Never speak of it again.
Use the name you want (Miller) when the time comes. Tell your brother his nephew's middle name honors both your father AND him if he says anything.
By not discussing this further right now, it forces your brother to cool off and see how ridiculous he's been. When the baby is born and the name is announced, your brother may be over it -OR- he can seethe silently -OR- publicly have a tantrum every other relative will hush him for having in front of a newborn.
I don't see how discussing this further helps, it will only fan the flames of drama. Let it go for the time being. Stick with your plan, don't talk about names with people in the mean time.
It will work out! Congratulations!! Definitely don't worry about this, it'll be fine :))
posted by jbenben at 9:51 AM on July 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
Use the name you want (Miller) when the time comes. Tell your brother his nephew's middle name honors both your father AND him if he says anything.
By not discussing this further right now, it forces your brother to cool off and see how ridiculous he's been. When the baby is born and the name is announced, your brother may be over it -OR- he can seethe silently -OR- publicly have a tantrum every other relative will hush him for having in front of a newborn.
I don't see how discussing this further helps, it will only fan the flames of drama. Let it go for the time being. Stick with your plan, don't talk about names with people in the mean time.
It will work out! Congratulations!! Definitely don't worry about this, it'll be fine :))
posted by jbenben at 9:51 AM on July 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
It's absolutely none of your brother's business what you name your child. His suggestions of Ralph, Rollins, whatever= bye. Not his place. "This is not an unusual line of thinking for my brother" makes it seem like you're well aware that he has dramatic tendencies-- don't feed his drama by asking him for input on things he really has no right to decide. He's being really hurtful to you right now, and yeah, it sounds like this is proxy anger about something else, but like... protect yourself. Don't feed his issues.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 9:57 AM on July 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 9:57 AM on July 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
Use the name you want. Why would anyone other than the father and mother of a child think they have a say on what the child's name should be?
If you hadn't been planning on using his input as a factor to help you decide though, you shouldn't have asked.
posted by pearshaped at 10:00 AM on July 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
If you hadn't been planning on using his input as a factor to help you decide though, you shouldn't have asked.
posted by pearshaped at 10:00 AM on July 19, 2016 [4 favorites]
I have my dad and grandpa's middle name as my middle name (it was my great grandma's maiden name, which is a thing people do I guess?), and I gave my son that middle name too, so I feel pretty qualified to answer this question.
I would have probably been annoyed if my sister had used it for her son, but wouldn't have made a big deal of it. It's a pretty special thing to me, to carry on that tradition with my son. If my sister had scooped it I would have thought that was pretty lame. However, we were both married when she had her son, and we were both in our early 30s, and we were both openly planning to have children in the near future. Also, I would never have thrown a crazy fit because that is ridiculous.
In conclusion, I kind of get his feelings, but he went overboard on it, and also he doesn't seem to be in eminent need of the middle name. If you can find another way to honor your dad I would probably recommend doing that, but if not go for it b/c your brother is acting silly.
posted by joelhunt at 10:19 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would have probably been annoyed if my sister had used it for her son, but wouldn't have made a big deal of it. It's a pretty special thing to me, to carry on that tradition with my son. If my sister had scooped it I would have thought that was pretty lame. However, we were both married when she had her son, and we were both in our early 30s, and we were both openly planning to have children in the near future. Also, I would never have thrown a crazy fit because that is ridiculous.
In conclusion, I kind of get his feelings, but he went overboard on it, and also he doesn't seem to be in eminent need of the middle name. If you can find another way to honor your dad I would probably recommend doing that, but if not go for it b/c your brother is acting silly.
posted by joelhunt at 10:19 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
I would use the name as a middle name after talking to you brother about his reaction. People have fewer children these days and names have evolving traditions. We recently received a copy of my deceased dad's birth certificate and saw that he had an additional middle name that wasn't used or even posted to the family genealogy, it just chugged along, unused and unspoken for over 7 decades. He was the sixth of seven children, so my grandparents were not too hung up on details.
posted by childofTethys at 10:28 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by childofTethys at 10:28 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
If your baby isn't due for a while, I'd drop the subject for now. Space and time for the baby to become more "real" to your brother might bring him around to feeling fond enough of the little guy that he wants to share names.
posted by teremala at 10:44 AM on July 19, 2016
posted by teremala at 10:44 AM on July 19, 2016
If I were in your shoes, I think I would let it rest at least for a little while. Two things may transpire: 1) your brother's feelings about this may shift, and maybe you can help find a graceful way out/beyond for him. 2) you may come up with a name you like better.
posted by vunder at 10:47 AM on July 19, 2016
posted by vunder at 10:47 AM on July 19, 2016
A shared middle name seems like an ideal way to connect cousins long after the two of you are gone. I think you should ask him to take this into consideration. Heirloom family names can be a treasure, but the treasure in it is the people you share it with.
posted by readery at 11:00 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by readery at 11:00 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Would it be overly provocative to use it as a first name instead? Or two middles? I agree that your brother's reaction seems...extreme? I also agree that you have the right to do what you want.
posted by ersatzkat at 11:17 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatzkat at 11:17 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
My daughter and my sister's daughter(my niece) have the same middle name. No big deal.
posted by poppunkcat at 11:18 AM on July 19, 2016
posted by poppunkcat at 11:18 AM on July 19, 2016
I have a middle name like this that I share with my great-uncle, my uncle, I think five of my cousins, my son, and probably several thousand of my cousins' kids. And when my dogs aren't listening to me, I sometimes use it as their middle name too, even though it technically isn't.
It doesn't bother me at all, and I don't fully understand your brother's objection, but I don't entirely understand yours either.
That's not to say I think either one of you is wrong. Not at all. There are tons of things people do and care about that I can't personally relate to, so I try to take people at their word when they say something is important to them.
You could probably get an internet consensus saying he's wrong, and if he were to take his own poll, using his own framing, he could probably get one saying you're wrong. And neither of those consensuses would matter.
If you believe he's sincere, and he's not an overall controlling jerk or something, could you just take him at his word that this really bugs him, even if you can't fully embrace his perspective, and go from there without trying to establish that one of you is right and one wrong?
That isn't to say that you need to acquiesce or anything. He should try to accept your perspective too, whether he fully understands it or not.
But there's no single right answer and it doesn't seem as though either of you is being any more unreasonable than people always are. It's a totally subjective thing that you two have different ideas about, and it'll probably come down to how much you each care about your position, and how much you care about each others' feelings about it. You have clear veto power, though.
posted by ernielundquist at 11:19 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
It doesn't bother me at all, and I don't fully understand your brother's objection, but I don't entirely understand yours either.
That's not to say I think either one of you is wrong. Not at all. There are tons of things people do and care about that I can't personally relate to, so I try to take people at their word when they say something is important to them.
You could probably get an internet consensus saying he's wrong, and if he were to take his own poll, using his own framing, he could probably get one saying you're wrong. And neither of those consensuses would matter.
If you believe he's sincere, and he's not an overall controlling jerk or something, could you just take him at his word that this really bugs him, even if you can't fully embrace his perspective, and go from there without trying to establish that one of you is right and one wrong?
That isn't to say that you need to acquiesce or anything. He should try to accept your perspective too, whether he fully understands it or not.
But there's no single right answer and it doesn't seem as though either of you is being any more unreasonable than people always are. It's a totally subjective thing that you two have different ideas about, and it'll probably come down to how much you each care about your position, and how much you care about each others' feelings about it. You have clear veto power, though.
posted by ernielundquist at 11:19 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
In the one hand, I (female) share a middle name with a first cousin (male, older) and I have always thought it was kind of cool.
On the other hand, I had a rock solid policy of NOT discussing baby names (or even genders) with anyone but my spouse ahead of time. Someone gave me the brilliant advice that everyone will feel free to critique a name before it's attached to a baby, but nobody will say mean things (to your face, at least) once it's a done deal. If you didn't want to deal with potential disagreement, you shouldn't have talked to your brother about it.
What's more important here? For me, it would not be that the name is "wasted" because he might not have a kid (seriously? Names are not like a quart of milk you have to use before they go bad). For me, it would be WAY more about family relationships, and wanting my child not to be a point of contention and possibly resented by his uncle (and maybe others in the family?) his whole life. Don't start his life off like that-- he won't be sad he doesn't get a family middle name unless you make a big deal about it. He will be sad if his uncle can't be in the same room with him without getting angry.
posted by instamatic at 11:22 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, I had a rock solid policy of NOT discussing baby names (or even genders) with anyone but my spouse ahead of time. Someone gave me the brilliant advice that everyone will feel free to critique a name before it's attached to a baby, but nobody will say mean things (to your face, at least) once it's a done deal. If you didn't want to deal with potential disagreement, you shouldn't have talked to your brother about it.
What's more important here? For me, it would not be that the name is "wasted" because he might not have a kid (seriously? Names are not like a quart of milk you have to use before they go bad). For me, it would be WAY more about family relationships, and wanting my child not to be a point of contention and possibly resented by his uncle (and maybe others in the family?) his whole life. Don't start his life off like that-- he won't be sad he doesn't get a family middle name unless you make a big deal about it. He will be sad if his uncle can't be in the same room with him without getting angry.
posted by instamatic at 11:22 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Your brother's reaction is over the top, but I can understand him being bummed if he wants a child to share his name and his father's, except that now it'll seem like he's doing something that's been done already.
I still think you should use it if you want. But just be realistic about it -- now the name's emotional weight is [honor for your father] + [drama with your brother], unless you're willing to really turn a deaf ear to his (over)reaction here. It's unfair and unfortunate. The name may be the best option, even so. But if you found something else you truly liked, it might be emotionally cleaner.
posted by salvia at 11:24 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
I still think you should use it if you want. But just be realistic about it -- now the name's emotional weight is [honor for your father] + [drama with your brother], unless you're willing to really turn a deaf ear to his (over)reaction here. It's unfair and unfortunate. The name may be the best option, even so. But if you found something else you truly liked, it might be emotionally cleaner.
posted by salvia at 11:24 AM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Your brother sounds like an asshole, but I'd probably leave the name for him to use for his future child. If you can think of another way to honor your father, it might be best.
My sister has a family name as her middle name and passed it to her daughter; I would have never thought to give it to my own daughter. Just my two cents. Though, it sounds like your brother is going to be extremely angry if you go ahead with it. And why ask for his thoughts if you're just going to do it anyway?
posted by stoneandstar at 11:53 AM on July 19, 2016
My sister has a family name as her middle name and passed it to her daughter; I would have never thought to give it to my own daughter. Just my two cents. Though, it sounds like your brother is going to be extremely angry if you go ahead with it. And why ask for his thoughts if you're just going to do it anyway?
posted by stoneandstar at 11:53 AM on July 19, 2016
I think the only mistake you made here is asking your brother what his feelings were without thinking of what your way forward would be if he had a strong negative reaction. You don't need your brother's permission to name your child anything you want, but in asking his opinion you have put yourself in a situation where I think he will be right to feel slighted if you disregard his feelings. Is there a similar but different version of the middle name that could satisfy your desire to honor your father without pissing off your brother (like e.g. Jefferson for Jeffrey)?
posted by aiglet at 1:01 PM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by aiglet at 1:01 PM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Lie like a rug. Have a secret middle name. Keep up lie until Baby is Toddler and let's it slip.
Tell crazy bro baby is Baby Anything HusbandsLastname when the baby is really Baby Miller HusbandsLastname. Bwahahah. What's he going to do, ask for a copy of the birth certificate?
Bro is nuts.
Or, be evil and name the baby Miller HusbandsLastname, since you thought about it about Bro convinced you not to use it as a first name.
posted by charlielxxv at 1:07 PM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Tell crazy bro baby is Baby Anything HusbandsLastname when the baby is really Baby Miller HusbandsLastname. Bwahahah. What's he going to do, ask for a copy of the birth certificate?
Bro is nuts.
Or, be evil and name the baby Miller HusbandsLastname, since you thought about it about Bro convinced you not to use it as a first name.
posted by charlielxxv at 1:07 PM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
I mean, be evil and use Miller as first name. I made a typo in my haste...to be evil.
posted by charlielxxv at 1:13 PM on July 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by charlielxxv at 1:13 PM on July 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
A more charitable read is that you unknowingly stepped on a raw nerve that your brother may have not even realized he had on the issue. Men yearn for families, too.
This was my first thought - he really wants a family and his feelings might be coming out sideways.
Having said that.... I'd use the middle name. I'd be gentle about it, and offer to have a discussion when he can do so in a calm manner, but honestly the baby is yours, not your family's - the choice should be yours.
posted by onecircleaday at 1:54 PM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
This was my first thought - he really wants a family and his feelings might be coming out sideways.
Having said that.... I'd use the middle name. I'd be gentle about it, and offer to have a discussion when he can do so in a calm manner, but honestly the baby is yours, not your family's - the choice should be yours.
posted by onecircleaday at 1:54 PM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
My father and I (both 2nd born sons) have the same middle name. My older brother gave his 2nd born son the same middle name. At first I was like "hey wait that isn't right, as 1st born you can't do that" but honestly I stopped caring pretty fast and gave my own son a totally different name.
So, from your brother's perspective, I can see why he might be upset, but I can also see it blowing over and not ending up a big deal whatsoever. Probably means more to him than it does to you in some ways, because of the 2nd born connection, but in the end how often is a middle name used (outside of when you're in trouble and mom/dad shouts it out)?
posted by caution live frogs at 2:07 PM on July 19, 2016
So, from your brother's perspective, I can see why he might be upset, but I can also see it blowing over and not ending up a big deal whatsoever. Probably means more to him than it does to you in some ways, because of the 2nd born connection, but in the end how often is a middle name used (outside of when you're in trouble and mom/dad shouts it out)?
posted by caution live frogs at 2:07 PM on July 19, 2016
Nthing what Lynn Never said. I lost a friend of 30+ years because my grandson was given the same first name as her late spouse. I didn't ask for her permission; it wasn't my child after all. But I was excited that my daughter wanted to give her son the same name (it was the only name that both she and her partner agreed on). Nevertheless, I was happy that there would be another X in my life. And when I shared the news, my family friend got angry and upset and insisted that I tell my kid about her feelings. I declined to be the go-between and told the friend to discuss it with my daughter directly. As a result, my friend ended our relationship.
For whatever reason, this issue is really important to your brother. You're not obligated to take his feelings into account. But I hope you take into account that using that particular name may result in your brother resenting both you and your son for years to come. If so, there is no guarantee that your brother will ever get over this. (It's been two years and my friend is still MIA.) Of course, if your brother is a huge pain and you've wanted a way to cut him out of your life, then congrats! Here's your out!
Here's the thing about feelings: They aren't rational, and people can't be argued out of how they feel. But you might consider calling or better yet meeting with him to ask him open, non-judgemental questions to help you explore what makes this issue so important to him. Not to convince him of anything, just to understand more. And you can present it that way. "I'm so surprised you feel so strongly about this. That's really interesting. Tell me more about what this symbolises to you or why you think it's a problem if both of our children share that name. I won't argue, I just want to understand."
Showing that you are truly interested in a person's perspective by using gentle curiosity can sometimes help that person open up more. Greater understanding can be helpful in informing whatever choice that eventually gets made. The process can make the other person feel better as well. Sometimes having your feelings heard and acknowledged is powerful even if you don't get what you want.
Which is why I also recommend that after you listen to your brother without judgement or anger, you share your own feelings of disappointment and loss if you don't use that name and help him understand why the issue is so important to you.
So hope you can resolve this cleanly and happily for all parties. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 2:28 PM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
For whatever reason, this issue is really important to your brother. You're not obligated to take his feelings into account. But I hope you take into account that using that particular name may result in your brother resenting both you and your son for years to come. If so, there is no guarantee that your brother will ever get over this. (It's been two years and my friend is still MIA.) Of course, if your brother is a huge pain and you've wanted a way to cut him out of your life, then congrats! Here's your out!
Here's the thing about feelings: They aren't rational, and people can't be argued out of how they feel. But you might consider calling or better yet meeting with him to ask him open, non-judgemental questions to help you explore what makes this issue so important to him. Not to convince him of anything, just to understand more. And you can present it that way. "I'm so surprised you feel so strongly about this. That's really interesting. Tell me more about what this symbolises to you or why you think it's a problem if both of our children share that name. I won't argue, I just want to understand."
Showing that you are truly interested in a person's perspective by using gentle curiosity can sometimes help that person open up more. Greater understanding can be helpful in informing whatever choice that eventually gets made. The process can make the other person feel better as well. Sometimes having your feelings heard and acknowledged is powerful even if you don't get what you want.
Which is why I also recommend that after you listen to your brother without judgement or anger, you share your own feelings of disappointment and loss if you don't use that name and help him understand why the issue is so important to you.
So hope you can resolve this cleanly and happily for all parties. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 2:28 PM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Possibly I'm a terrible person but I'd avoid family drama lama and I'd give the baby two middle names. First name, Ralph, Miller, Surname. And not mention Miller to your bro.
All my children have four first names - for exactly this reason in one child. Nobody checks veracity of middle names. Bro won't know. Most forms you fill in don't even give space for all of them. When bro asks, just tell him the first two names. I wasn't close enough to my siblings to want them to influence the names I gave my kids, nor particularly in promoting a bond in that way. The name thing is personal for me. I chose names for my kids that honoured family and friends and tradition that mattered to me and their dad. I bet not one member of my family could repeat all the names of all my kids. (Possibly not even my husband without a bit of prompting.) Do what you wish, but just be discreet about it.
Ok, just asked my husband. He got about 80% hit rate. Call your kid whatever you like!!!!
posted by taff at 3:14 PM on July 19, 2016
All my children have four first names - for exactly this reason in one child. Nobody checks veracity of middle names. Bro won't know. Most forms you fill in don't even give space for all of them. When bro asks, just tell him the first two names. I wasn't close enough to my siblings to want them to influence the names I gave my kids, nor particularly in promoting a bond in that way. The name thing is personal for me. I chose names for my kids that honoured family and friends and tradition that mattered to me and their dad. I bet not one member of my family could repeat all the names of all my kids. (Possibly not even my husband without a bit of prompting.) Do what you wish, but just be discreet about it.
Ok, just asked my husband. He got about 80% hit rate. Call your kid whatever you like!!!!
posted by taff at 3:14 PM on July 19, 2016
Will your child's surname be the same as your father's? If not, have you considered Simmons?
posted by yarntheory at 6:17 PM on July 19, 2016
posted by yarntheory at 6:17 PM on July 19, 2016
I think your brother is weird for caring about this, and I think you are equally weird for caring about it too. You want to be the sensible one, pick another name. You want to be part of a dramatic family feud over your baby's middle name that you caused, go ahead and call him Miller.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 7:44 PM on July 19, 2016
posted by the agents of KAOS at 7:44 PM on July 19, 2016
I have empathy for both of you, especially since I had big name drama after my son was born.
However, the name calling going on here is really incredible to me. Your brother might not be nuts, crazy, an asshole or any of these other judgements people are putting on him. He might be feeling pangs of regret for some big stuff in his life. I get it. I also get how frustrating that must be for you, too, but I gotta say I think there are other ways to move on from this than choosing to ignore your brother's feelings when you literally asked him what he thought.
I'm sorry for the stress your feeling and hope things feel better for all of you soon. This is tough stuff.
posted by smirkyfodder at 8:06 PM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
However, the name calling going on here is really incredible to me. Your brother might not be nuts, crazy, an asshole or any of these other judgements people are putting on him. He might be feeling pangs of regret for some big stuff in his life. I get it. I also get how frustrating that must be for you, too, but I gotta say I think there are other ways to move on from this than choosing to ignore your brother's feelings when you literally asked him what he thought.
I'm sorry for the stress your feeling and hope things feel better for all of you soon. This is tough stuff.
posted by smirkyfodder at 8:06 PM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
My father and all three of his brothers have their mother's maiden name as their middle name. In the same vein, my cousin Catherine's middle name is Clifford after her grandfather. I love significant names being shared in families. It's a great way to honor the people whose names are used and a wonderful reminder of those family members.
posted by bendy at 8:23 PM on July 19, 2016
posted by bendy at 8:23 PM on July 19, 2016
> You want to be part of a dramatic family feud over your baby's middle name that you caused
Wait, no -- the brother caused it, by erupting over a completely reasonable question.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:41 PM on July 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
Wait, no -- the brother caused it, by erupting over a completely reasonable question.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:41 PM on July 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
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