Relationship - married man edition
July 18, 2016 6:51 PM   Subscribe

I'm 39F, single and for the last 10 years, been involved in relationships in which did not end well (broke up under very bad circumstances due to emotional abuse - 2008-2014), or with single man living too far away to make things work (2014-2016). A month ago, I met a married man and we had an affair. The relationship was intense, and we recently parted because I needed time to figure out what I wanted out of it. More details inside.

I met A a month ago via an online dating app. He was very upfront in his bio that he was only looking for friendship and I thought that it was a welcome change from the usual guys I had been chatting with. In the first minutes of my text conversation with him, he said he has been married for the last 10 years, and has two boys. We chatted for about 30 min about life in our town, some superficial niceties, and I had to get on with my day. Before we stopped, he said that he might be leaving the app and told me that he would not only be unmatching me, but also the whole world. Ok, no problem, I said. Have a nice day.

The following evening, A texted me to say that he had left home for a few days after serving divorce papers to his wife. I was shocked, but it apparently wasn't the first time he had done it. Anyway, to cut a very long story short, while I (internet stranger) encouraged him to work out problems with his wife, he told me how and why he was unhappy in his marriage. The details are not important, but I think it may be relevant for this question to mention that to me, he fell in love and married a woman who does not find him remotely attractive, but married him anyway because it was socially acceptable.

With the details he told me, I think she is probably gay with a lot of guilt attached to it. She was a virgin when she married him in her early thirties, no known boyfriends before, but had a string of girlfriends who also went on to marry men. She is also very religious. They didn't live together for years after getting married and have been sleeping in different rooms for the last two years. I have no reason to doubt him. He was a broken man that night and reached out to me while alone in his motel room five towns away. He missed his boys. I tried to console him, wished him the best of luck in finding a resolution to his situation and turned in for the night.

Day 3, A came back to town, but did not want to go home. We ended up meeting for the first time. He grabbed dinner while I sat across him listening to him. He was ridiculously attractive, and a very honest guy. Fast forward a few hours later, we kissed. It wasn't planned. We were both sober.

This started three weeks of confusion in me. We met often after, 3 times in the first 24 hours of our meeting. Breakfast, lunches etc etc. I liked him, but he was married. Every conversation we had centred on his wife and how horrible things were at home. I wanted to pull away, but I found it difficult. He spoke about getting a divorce, and in the same breath said that it would not happen. He loved his kids and would stick around in his horrid life for them. HE was also very glad to have met me. He told me I woke up something in him, and that I had in a perverse way, helped him save his marriage.

By this time, I questioned my own intentions for being with him. I really do like him. His wife knew something was up when he started to go out after putting the kids to sleep, and made oblique references to him seeing someone else. But she did not know details.

For the last week, I had been flighty and walking a thin emotional line about the ethics of this affair, and my own desire to have a relationship with a man who would be openly committed to me. A says he loves me, but he would never leave his family for the sake of his boys. He promised me nothing except his heart, and briefly discussed moving out of the family home but again told me to not count on it. I have tried to cut short this affair and left him twice in the last week, but the separation never lasted for more than 12 hours.

We had the same talk yesterday. In part because he sensed I was getting more and more emotionally attached by the day, and wanted to help me decide. Over the last few days, I gave some thought that if he had decided to divorce his wife even before knowing me, my being around was only encouraging him to stay. Perhaps the right thing to do was to take leave and have him look for me when his situation changed. I don't want to lose him, but its come to this. I also asked him to talk to his wife to open up the marriage so I can be with him and not have to sneak around, to which he replied his wife already knows he is seeing someone but does not know details.

His current position is that he would not leave his family for the foreseeable future. He said that he would give me time to think about the situation, really think if I wanted to be with him, I could come back, we would be together (does this make me the mistress?), but I would have to make peace with the entire thing. Not marrying, not intertwined friends and family, but having his love.

There are a lot of thought swirling in my head now, and I would appreciate some clarity. I am attractive, well educated, and by all accounts, well put together. However, since my first boyfriend at university, I have never dated someone who did not have an issue or another. I don't know why. My 2008-2014 relationship broke me. He was a high functioning alcoholic prone to depression and kicked me out of flat we shared twice.

Since then, I've dated men who inadvertently had one issue or another. Mental issues, living too far away with no long term goal. A may be the best that I will meet even given the circumstances. If I were to accept the arrangements as A proposed, how do I protect myself emotionally?

P.S. Yes, we've been intimate.
posted by meander to Human Relations (51 answers total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
You are being used.
posted by infinitywaltz at 7:08 PM on July 18, 2016 [67 favorites]


While he may make grand gestures about being open and available to you now, he is just plain not available for a relationship. And yet, he is willing to compromise you.

You need to be available to someone who is also equally available to you, and who would never compromise you. Someone who loves you doesn't want third-best for you.

Walk away, and keep yourself open to better things. For you, for him, for his family. But mostly, for you.
posted by Dashy at 7:09 PM on July 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


Yes, it would make you his mistress.

In all likelihood not his first, and possibly not his only current mistress.

You have been played. I can tell you are trying very hard to make his whole sad sack story be true and him be the misunderstood man who would never do anything like this and was only on a dating app for "friends"* but this is a song and dance - for your benefit, yes, so you can excuse yourself, but probably also he specifically gets off on both the manufactured drama and your naivety. You are a fetish.

If you want to have healthy relationships, you can't start from a deeply unhealthy position, and you are not savvy enough to use this man back as ruthlessly as he is using you. That is some super-advanced shit, and it is not for you.

*Nobody does this. Men do not do this. Married men do not do this.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:11 PM on July 18, 2016 [77 favorites]


Best answer: For the last week, I had been flighty and walking a thin emotional line about the ethics of this affair, and my own desire to have a relationship with a man who would be openly committed to me.

If I were to accept the arrangements as A propsed, how do I protect myself emotionally?


In my opinion, you can't. I, an internet stranger, think you deserve to have the relationship you dream of with a man who is openly commited to you, and you should accept nothing less.

If A wishes to man-pants up and divorce, figure out his custody deal and stabilize for a few months, then contact you, that's a different story.

My devout wish for you, your emotional health, and future well-being, is that you back away from this drama-bomb without regrets. A is not the best, or last, man you will meet. Best.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 7:11 PM on July 18, 2016 [27 favorites]


I have never had a healthy romantic relationship in my adult life, but the one I had with a man who was married at the beginning of our relationship was by far the most unhealthy. I am glad you asked this question here, and think that you already know the answer. Do what is best for you. The thing that is best for you, I promise, is anything but dating this man.
posted by sockermom at 7:27 PM on July 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


You're describing a man who does not have a friend circle or family to turn to when his marriage is falling apart but instead turns to a stranger on a social media ap. That says either that you're being played or that his first priority should not be starting a new romantic relationship but rather building up Team Him to help him through these bad times. He needs to be able to find a support network that does not involve his secret affair - no matter how bad his marriage may legitimately be.

Also, ask yourself - do you think his wife would recognize herself in his account of her? Like "oh, yes, actually I don't really care about this marriage and only married for respectability"? It is unlikely that her side of the story would match what he says to you.
posted by Frowner at 7:30 PM on July 18, 2016 [53 favorites]


I completely understand the temptation here to keep seeing him, just to continue having someone to be intimate with and feel close to. If you give in to it, I'm certainly not one to judge.

You're not naive about what to expect from him if you do, though, which I find a good sign.

If you want to continue seeing him, you will have to do some self-reflection to figure out whether you're capable of not getting yourself emotionally invested with this guy, not falling in love with him and expecting him to change his tune, being happy with the limited contact he is going to be okay with. Otherwise you're really setting yourself up for a lot of emotional pain, without a doubt.
posted by lizbunny at 7:34 PM on July 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: A is not from my country. He moved here 11 years ago and married her a year later. Since then, his entire social support here comprises his wife's friends and family.

He works from home and spends his day taking care of his sons, between travelling for work.

His parents have in the past asked him 'when are you divorcing her?' after witnessing some poor behaviour on her part when they visited. His mother wishes for him to leave, but his father has encouraged him to take care of his family and worked out that separating will take a huge toll on his finances.

He also confides in another friend, a swinging bachelor who doesn't trust women in the first place, who has told him that his wife will never leave, he would never leave his hopeless marriage, and he just needs to move out and have an affair, but keep the veneer of marriage.
posted by meander at 7:39 PM on July 18, 2016


If he has an affair without his wife being aware, that is not a good thing for him to do, and you would be committing to a person of questionable moral character. Also, if he is willing to do this, it should make you wonder (always) whether he would do it again if he becomes dissatisfied, but decides to not address it with you directly and instead assuage his feelings through secretive means.

Additionally, some would disagree with this part of the moral calculus, but I think it's true: if it's wrong for him to have an affair behind his wife's back, it's also not a good thing to participate in the very action that is enabling him to do the wrong thing. Being one step removed (although it is tempting to think so) does not remove moral culpability, and I think you could potentially live with some feelings of guilt, especially if you find out later that his account of his wife is skewed such that it is not a fair representation.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:43 PM on July 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


Best answer: He moved here 11 years ago and married her a year later. Since then, his entire social support here comprises his wife's friends and family.

Again, this is clearly someone who needs to find a social circle which can support him in dealing with his actual problem - coming to terms with his marriage - rather than needing to find a girlfriend on the side. If you get involved with him, you'll be supporting him in deferring a real problem because dealing with the real problem is uncomfortable.

He also confides in another friend, a swinging bachelor who doesn't trust women in the first place, who has told him that his wife will never leave, he would never leave his hopeless marriage, and he just needs to move out and have an affair, but keep the veneer of marriage.

This person sounds like a terrible friend. Getting involved with someone whose only close friend "doesn't trust women" is not, to me, a terribly good idea. What kind of poison is this charmer going to be pouring in your boyfriend's ear? How is that going to affect your relationship?

I think your best course would be to find a support group or therapist who can help you examine why your relationships have all been such disasters, and why you end up with basically unavailable men. This guy is in the same series as the abusive alcoholic - he may be a better human and a nicer person, but he is still never going to give you what you need and you will not be able to rely on him. It sounds as though you are still so damaged from your relationship with the scary, abusive alcoholic that it is clouding your vision.
posted by Frowner at 7:54 PM on July 18, 2016 [22 favorites]


Frankly, this is a startling level of dramatic detail for 30 days' worth of acquaintance. Have you independently verified any of this information?
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:55 PM on July 18, 2016 [72 favorites]


I would divide up everything you know / can confirm independently about him from everything you only know because he told you, because my gut says he's lying to you, at least to some extent.
posted by sallybrown at 7:56 PM on July 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


Woman, you are being played. If you go ahead with this, do so with your eyes wide open to the reality of the situation, which sure as hell isn't that this dude is in a sad, sad, sad marriage to a terrible, awful woman. It's that he doesn't give a shit about his wife and wants to screw other women on the side regardless of her feelings. He's done this before you, he's probably doing it with other women currently and he'll continue to do it long after you're gone. Accepting that is what is really going on, go right ahead and have the affair with him if that's what you want to do.
posted by scantee at 7:59 PM on July 18, 2016 [26 favorites]


He told me I woke up something in him, and that I had in a perverse way, helped him save his marriage.

Oh man, he must be so charming. Once you disentangle yourself from him, you will look back and marvel at the nerve he had to use this line.

A may be the best that I will meet even given the circumstances.

I mean... I suppose that's possible--not likely, but possible. But it's not a reason to have a relationship you have to do mental gymnastics to justify. It doesn't sound like you want a secret relationship with a married man.

There's something that's working for you in this relationship. Maybe it's exciting to be in on secrets. Or it feels good to be wanted. Maybe you have a nurturing or problem-solving instinct that his constant drama fits with. I don't know what it is, but it's there. This doesn't mean it's a healthy relationship, or one you should stay in, just that you might do well to think about what's working and what isn't.

If you wanted a long-term sexual partner who you could be confident wouldn't want a role in the rest of your life (no public life as a couple, no potential for marriage or otherwise being life partners), then maybe this man would be a good candidate. But I don't think that's what you want. There's being picky in a way that keeps you from seeing the good in potential partners, and there's having standards that keep you from settling for partners you know won't meet your needs. If you don't want to be the mistress (which is what you'd be--although, I don't know if you'd be the mistress or one of several), then this isn't the relationship for you, regardless of the compelling stories he's told you and how much you like him.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:02 PM on July 18, 2016 [6 favorites]


As a man who has lost friendships with other men for pulling exactly his sort of shit, and seen plenty of female friends follow the exact thought processes you're following, I couldn't favourite Lyn Never's answer hard enough.

And when I read your follow-up, I went back just to make sure I couldn't favourite Lyn's answer a second time.

You. Are. Being. Played. By an expert. Who has an answer or explanation for everything. This is 100% stereotypical player behaviour. Run, don't walk. You will never be happy with this, it will never change, and you will never be able to change him. This is his game, you will never win, and even if you manage a draw you'll still be left with all the emotional wreckage to clean up (because, hey, when has a man ever cleaned up after himself? ;).

Put simply: forget it. Nobody is worth this.
posted by Pinback at 8:03 PM on July 18, 2016 [21 favorites]


Even taking out the fact that he is married-- there are tons of red flags--
He declared his love within a MONTH of meeting you?
He spilled out this intense story about his marriage within a Day of meeting you?
He's served papers yet is stating that he'll never leave?
That is too much drama from someone you have only known for four weeks!
Step away and don't look back-
This is way too heavy for a four week ACQUIANTANCE.
posted by calgirl at 8:06 PM on July 18, 2016 [13 favorites]


Best answer: Married men don't leave their wives for the other woman, even when they spend the whole time promising they will 'when she's better', 'when the kids are grown' 'when the time is right'. He's not even promising you that lie. He is certainly not promising his heart, whatever his mouth says.

He's flat out saying that you will never be the important person in your life. Run. This is not worth your wellbeing. You cannot protect yourself emotionally - you're already hurting and upset.

He's basically only offering you sex and a restaurant companion while showing you less compassion than you'd get from a random person on the street.
posted by kitten magic at 8:10 PM on July 18, 2016 [17 favorites]


Meant to say

Married men looking for mistresses don't leave their wives for the other woman.

Even if he does divorce his wife, I highly doubt you'd be the one he'd marry. Not because there's anything wrong with you but because you know too much about his first marriage. He'd go for someone he can make up a whole new story for.
posted by kitten magic at 8:14 PM on July 18, 2016 [11 favorites]


Do you want this much drama in a romantic relationship?
posted by aniola at 8:32 PM on July 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


He was on that dating website looking for a sucker. He found you.

I'm really sorry to put it that bluntly, but this is a man who is dumping all of his emotional problems on a COMPLETE STRANGER within 72 hours of first speaking to her. He went on that website looking for this exact setup, someone to cheat on his wife with without leaving her. And if his only friend is a raving misogynist with a terrible opinion of women? Then those are his opinions too. Think carefully about it: how many friends do you have whose opinions you find morally repugnant? None? Ergo this guy does not find his friend's stance morally repugnant.
posted by MsMolly at 8:37 PM on July 18, 2016 [12 favorites]


I have never dated someone who did not have an issue or another.

That is a hard place to be, but it's also a very strong place, because you see the pattern and you can do better.

This relationship is not better. It is like a combination of all the relationships you outlined as issues before! Emotional abuse - check. (This guy is not only lying to his wife about things pertinent to her health and her choices, which is a form of abuse, he is making himself out to be the victim and screwing with your head...you are helping his marriage and this is supposed to make you feel better what the everlasting fudge??? Also his story has changed so many times just in your retelling of it I am pretty sure he really is playing you.) Unavailable man? Check.

If you continue in this relationship, you will not be emotionally available for a better one. Dare to break the pattern.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:39 PM on July 18, 2016 [8 favorites]


If I were to accept the arrangements as A proposed, how do I protect myself emotionally?

This is your only question? I think you could benefit from going to therapy.
posted by lamp at 8:54 PM on July 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


So you've only had two significant relationships in the last eight years, one of which was terrible and the other better but not good enough. This isn't any kind of reflection upon you, nor how "well put together" you are. It's just bad luck. It doesn't in any way predict your future relationships.

In the situation you're in, you are the mistress. If all you want is sex and restaurants, then that's fine. But it is pretty clear from your wording that you are nowhere near being able to "emotionally protect yourself" as you ask. If you have to ask, you're not playing the same game as he is.

I'm a man, and agree with the replies above such as clarifying that no married man goes on to a dating website to find "just friends". It simply doesn't happen. It sounds from what you're saying as if this guy really knows what he's doing and has almost certainly done it before. The back story is just far too convenient, and has even got you to feeling sorry for him in his situation. Filed divorce papers and isn't going to get divorced? What?

You have, as far as I can see, only three sensible options.
One: Stick with it, ignore all emotions, enjoy the trips out and the sex, don't get emotionally involved.
Two: Block him completely and tell him to write to you when the divorce is final and he's living alone if he likes.
Three: Block him completely and go find someone who wants to be with you.

I might be wrong, but I'm guessing that number one is really hard to do, and you might not enjoy it in the long run. Of course, option one also pretty much closes you off from any other potential loving partners in the meantime.
posted by tillsbury at 9:01 PM on July 18, 2016 [1 favorite]


Every single person who has been in some flavor of this relationship thinks they're the only one.

They never are. Never.

In five years you'll be writing that here for someone else.
posted by crankyrogalsky at 9:25 PM on July 18, 2016 [5 favorites]


Response by poster: I agree I need reflect deeply on why I have these attachment patterns. I try to be as honest as I can and I don't play games.

A spoke to me quite a lot on Day 2 and 3 after dropping the bombshell on him serving papers as at that time, I was a sympathetic ear then, with nothing to gain from giving him honest advice. Everything he told me pointed to the fact that he was deeply unhappy. He had a brief liaison with another woman last year, and his wife had her deported to her out of the country after finding out.

Our dynamics changed from the fifth day, and I stopped trying to help him trouble shoot his problems because my position had shifted. I was still on the receiving end of his mixed messages (staying for the kids, him deleting our messages because he doesn't want his wife to use it against him if they divorce, staying because he it makes fiscal sense, moving out of his family home so he spends part of the time away from his wife). My own emotions swung in response. I understand his difficulties, and maybe he did mine too. He laid all his cards on the table from the start and I'm not even sure if he has been misleading me, or it has all be one sided on my part.

I know deep down all that everyone has said makes sense, just that its not easy right now. He has also said to me that divorce is frowned upon in his (wife's) extended family as they are all pious and seem to think that everything can be solved through prayer and letting god decide. He doesn't go to church himself, but identifies as Christian.
posted by meander at 9:31 PM on July 18, 2016


Divorce proceedings are public records, hint hint.
posted by rhizome at 9:46 PM on July 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


Best answer: Enough about him. What about you? Your instinct was to break contact, and it sounds like he has been relentlessly making you doubt your own resolve to do so.

... the separation never lasted more than 12 hours.

OK, I get that you are in a fragile place right now and this is hard and heady stuff, but you have agency in this. You really do. You can make it last.

As other commenters have noted, you have no independent verification that any of the facts of his life are as he reports them, and yet you are retelling them to us in great detail. Quit buying into his narrative. Trust your gut.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 9:49 PM on July 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


It pains me to read your updates defending his actions and words.

There is no excuse for the way he is acting. I hope you can extricate yourself before this situation becomes even worse. This man is sucking you into a quicksand of drama.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 9:50 PM on July 18, 2016 [10 favorites]


Best answer: You keep talking about him. This is not about him. It is about you and what you need as well as want. It is really hard to walk away from drama when you have been living with drama and all of your relationships to date. You are making progress, you posted this question because the healthiest part of you wants you to be as healthy as possible yourself and deep down you understand that a relationship with this guy isn't good enough or healthy enough to be sustainable. Consider putting dating on hold for a while and focusing on yourself. Either way, please walk away from this drama. You can do so much better. Take care of yourself!
posted by Bella Donna at 9:59 PM on July 18, 2016 [25 favorites]


Run. Delete his number. Listen to yourself. I didn't listen. I moved countries. The veneer disappeared very quickly but in all the things you say he says I hear the man I believed ...his honey lines, his non-understanding wife, his transference: he created an anchor out of me but I was just a life ring until he left me to drown and went on to the next....which was for a while was his wife again before she finally had enough because he was telling another woman the same story. He was a drama machine. You don't need it.
posted by bwonder2 at 10:05 PM on July 18, 2016 [2 favorites]


First off ask yourself why do you date men that are unavailable and go from there to date people that are available. We have all heard the stories of the married man leaving his wife or he plans to but never does or does but it doesnt work out in the future because it wasnt built upon a good foundation. He will leave his realtionship again a lot of times.
He could have been planning to divorce his wife and it is a seperate issue from your relationship with him.
Also, it doesnt sound like a good arrangement for an open relationship because it wouldnt be good for you. Emotionally etc. also in some ways still unavailable but not fully commited to you. It also doesnt sound good in that she doesnt know the details. Also if they are monogamous he broke trust even if she is gay.

What do you want?
The seperation idea on your part is wise.
posted by Lillian7 at 10:15 PM on July 18, 2016


The only reason you are even remotely considering being this guy's mistress is that you have had such bad luck in relationships that you've been beaten down to the point where you don't think you can do better. Otherwise you wouldn't believe his lies. You definitely can do better, but you definitely won't if you choose to stick with this guy instead. When the right relationship comes along, it will be easy and it will feel right. This isn't it.
posted by hazyjane at 10:43 PM on July 18, 2016 [7 favorites]


My gosh this has been painful to read. Can you verify that anything he has told you is actually true?

I hear loud and clear your deep desire to be in a caring relationship but he is not available, and never has been. Ask yourself how many married men go to dating apps to find women friends? The answer is none. I think you know that but he has you hooked.

Please for your own happiness and self esteem don't settle for the crumbs this man is offering you. My guess is, if you called and said, yes I will be your mistress, he will pull away, and you will be left feeling like you are not enough and unlovable. Please don't do that to yourself.
posted by cairnoflore at 12:02 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


Best answer: My sister met her boyfriend when he was married. He was already in the process of leaving his wife when they met. When they got together, he moved hell and high water to get to see my sister... And he also moved hell and high water to still be there for his kids. He moved out of the family home and into a tiny cabin because he needed to leave and couldn't afford anything better at the time. He always made time for my sister, and visited her often in her home, and met her friends and family. They planned introducing my sister to his children very carefully. They had a long term goal of moving in together, which they are now doing. The divorce is very messy and painful, but at no point has he prevaricated about leaving his ex-wife or committing his future to my sister. He's also being a sterling father to his children despite complications with his ex-wife.

These are the actions of a married man who does want to leave, does want a new, committed relationship, and does want to be a good person.

The marriage is not the problem. A's blatant manipulations and lies (starting at the get-go with his dating profile) are the problem.

Run, be free, and find someone good to fall in love with. You are good and you deserve everything you want from a man. There are good men. You can have a good man. Believe it. You don't deserve to be played, strung-along, and used as a therapist by someone who does not care about you and who is not good.

(Obvious pain and suffering are not indications that someone is in any way good and deserving of your sympathy and healing, by the way. This could be an important lesson for you to learn.)
posted by mymbleth at 12:23 AM on July 19, 2016 [21 favorites]


So, he loves you, but does he actually know you? What makes you happiest, your favourite childhood memory, your first love? It sounds to me like you have an encyclopedic knowledge of him and his thoughts, feelings, dreams and desires. But dude, does he have the same for you?

You seem like a caring person who deserves to have a first (and subsequent) date where someone is deeply interested in you. And not just interested in your thoughts about him and his messed up situation.

Best wishes to you. Please do take care of yourself.
posted by brambory at 12:28 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


Hi. I was the other woman in a relationship with a married man for years. It isn't always what people assume it is. My married partner didn't string me along, lie to me or make false promises to me. He wasn't feckless or a bad person or amoral or unreliable or any of the things people like to say about men who have affairs. He was, looking back, probably the best secret-affair-having partner one could have. He saw me regularly, we had lunches and dinners and traveled and had amazing sex in a million hotel rooms and were able to wake up together and read papers and do much of the stuff that is normally in short supply in a clandestine relationship. I was basically a very well attended to, loved and adored mistress.

And with all of that -- the best case scenario -- he was still a terrible partner. I was still lonely. I still missed him and was so sad so often. I still spent holidays and family weddings without my other half. I still sat in an emergency room by myself because he couldn't leave his family home at 2 am. I still had to vacation with my girlfriends. And having done all of those things both single and while having an affair, I can tell you they are much, much more painful and lonely in the affair.

I would encourage you not to make this choice. Frankly, you don't seem very well cut out to be a mistress and the absolutely inevitable end will probably be brutal for you. So protect yourself and make a better decision.
posted by DarlingBri at 12:42 AM on July 19, 2016 [30 favorites]


FWIW the only way I know starting a relationship with a married man would work is if:

1. They have been (actually, really, as in you have proof) separated for 3 or more years.
2. You've known each other for 6 months already and have several friends in common.
3. The married man is not actually a man but a fully transitioned trans woman.

Then you probably have a good shot at dating a married person because that was my situation. Even then it was difficult and required my now wife and I to do TONS of dedicated emotional work in order to make it.

What you describe is not going to ever work for you. I imagine the attention is nice right now but what's coming your way is a lot of drama that's not your problem.
posted by Annika Cicada at 1:54 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


Response by poster: I've printed this page so I can read and reread your advice. Thank you, Mefites. Hugs.
posted by meander at 2:59 AM on July 19, 2016 [20 favorites]


A may be the best that I will meet even given the circumstances.


Please have some moral standards and take some perspective. You're not slumped on the floor dying of thirst with two cents in your pocket while staring longingly at the last bottle of water in an empty post-apocalyptic convenience store. You're not homeless, hungry and contemplating stealing a loaf of bread. You're not fighting off an intruder who's trying to kill your children. There might be circumstances where you were, or felt, forced to steal or kill in order to survive. There are no circumstances where you just have to commit adultery.

Let's say this guy is terrific and wonderful and just going through a bad patch right now, he's still not yours for the taking. If you want to do this with a clear conscience, tell him you're cutting off contact because you don't want to interfere with his marriage, but you'll be delighted to hear from him once his divorce is legally final (you'll want to double check that in public records). Don't waffle around meeting for coffee or emailing or having online chats as friends or Facebook stalking or anything. No contact, none.

If he wants you he'll have to do what it takes to get you, and since you're a person with moral standards, showing up and whingeing about how his wife doesn't understand him is not going to cut it with you. Is it? He has to sort out his own life, he doesn't get to mess with yours too.
posted by tel3path at 3:45 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


His whole story is such a fat bunch of lies, I don't even know where to start, but I just want to say that divorce papers aren't just served like an ice cream sundae at Baskin Robbins.

You have to spend hours in court, you have to file, then you have to have them served to the other party. This RARELY happens all in one day. So, chances are like 0% she actually got served. Filing and having them served sets a court date, usually 14 months or so in the future.

This guy saying he served her THAT DAY, and worse, that he's served her before...this is bullshit. (And of course, his wife is a frigid lesbian -- I mean -- come on.)

I mean, it's ALL bullshit. Please run away quickly from Lying Man.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 5:53 AM on July 19, 2016 [17 favorites]


He isn't going to make you happy. That's the bottom line. What he is offering you is not what you really want or what you need. Also, there is a very good chance that he's a liar. The story he's given you about his marriage is a cliché. I've seen women friends lured in by almost the exact same story. Even if it was true, however, he still isn't right for you.
posted by Alluring Mouthbreather at 6:19 AM on July 19, 2016


Best answer: He had a brief liaison with another woman last year, and his wife had her deported to her out of the country after finding out.

Really? I mean, really?

He's opened up your head and he's dumped this whole version of himself inside, and that seems really intoxicating and maybe like love, because it makes him seem so emotionally honest and takes you away from yourself. But really, all he's done is the first step in encouraging you to erase yourself and your needs in service to him.

He's basically flooded all your senses with this intense drama, and need, and conflicting stories, and his villainous wife who has him locked in a tower like Rapunzel, and he's overwhelmed your common sense and your own needs with maybe a desire to save him and get what he's offering and step away from your own self-loathing, and it's all just a terrible illusion he's spinning.

I worry so much that if you continue on with him, you will be left so sad and much worse off emotionally after he's done with you.
posted by Squeak Attack at 6:56 AM on July 19, 2016 [13 favorites]


I am glad you've said you'll be rereading this advice. Please don't let it hurt you too badly. It is probably super overwhelming to read that much negative stuff, but it's all coming from a good place. I bet most of the hetero women commenting have been through something similar--I know I sure have!

With all these lies, I begin to wonder if he's even married! If he is, I imagine they may even look happy to outsiders. I wish I could say I fell for a married man just once, but nope! I met a guy and we hit it off and I thought he was so amazing for calling me at random times and just showing up at my house because he missed me but actually he did those things because he had a wife to plan around. They did end up divorcing, but he sure didn't come running to commit to me after that. THEN he was ready to play around because he finally had freedom.

I also became close friends with a married man, whose wife didn't understand him and hated sex and he just loved her so much so he couldn't leave her, but he didn't love her so much that we couldn't fuck around behind her back. It's a decade later, they are still married, they look happy on Instagram, he still messages me occasionally and I ignore him.

Some people are terrible people. Don't become one by proxy! You can do better, you deserve better, and you'll find it. This is some corny ass advice but the thing that really kicked my ass into demanding more out of men was thinking, "What if I met my future husband, some super decent awesome guy, but I met him through this fuckface cheater, so he thought I was garbage too?" Basically, don't do stuff you wouldn't be proud of later, because later always comes and you're always going to have to live with yourself.

Memail me if you want to talk, I promise to be nice. <3
posted by masquesoporfavor at 7:40 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


He had a brief liaison with another woman last year, and his wife had her deported to her out of the country after finding out.


what
posted by OmieWise at 7:58 AM on July 19, 2016 [14 favorites]


Any man who would willingly and intentionally enter into an affair, without having any intention of leaving or at the very least telling his wife, is a selfish reprehensible scumbag who only cares about doing what is most convenient for him, no matter what the cost is to the people around him.

I think the fact that you know he's married and kept pursuing him anyway doesn't speak well of you either. If you've never been cheated on, you can't imagine the absolute agony and despair the cheated-on person will feel when she finds out, regardless of how good or bad her marriage is.

But, everyone makes mistakes and this is one you can learn from. You already know what you're doing is wrong or you wouldn't be so emotionally confused and you wouldn't be asking this question. So what will you do now? Will you do the right thing, cut off contact with this man forever, take it as a lesson learned, and never get involved in an affair again?
posted by a strong female character at 8:35 AM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]


You are being played.

You deserve so much better than someone than someone that would treat you like this. Right now in the made surges of crazy making hormones you think it's love, you think this is different you believe this is a wonderful thing because a bunch of chemicals are flooding your brain. In six months when the lovely exciting wonderful hormones & tingles wear off what are you going to be left with?

If this was your best friend telling you what you told us, what would you say to her?

I repeat, you deserve someone so much better.
posted by wwax at 8:52 AM on July 19, 2016


If (and this is a doubtful maybe to me, honestly) if he is being 100% honest, straightforward, truthful, and acting in his absolute best to act with honor, dignity, and generally being a good human being.... he is still a huge, huge mess.

If he has the slightest bit of malice, corruption, sleaze, or manipulative-ness, this goes really downhill, really really fast.

In fact, it becomes much more reasonable to suspect he is a serial cheater of some sort.

If he is legitimate allowed to be in an open relationship, I'd talk to his wife- in person, just the two of you, and have SUPER EXPLICIT conversations about this said open relationship- but.... I don't trust this guy. I'm sorry. I also super sincerely doubt he is the best you can do... I worry this is a combination of low self esteem, being ground down by other bad relationships, and, well, this guy sounds manipulative and practiced at cheating.


No contact is your friend. You deserve better.
posted by Jacen at 9:19 AM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]


if a guy had dumped that much heavy personal information on me on day 2 i would have immediately ghosted on him. that's just wayyyyy too much to tell someone after literally 30 minutes of niceties on the internet and it seems beyond weird
posted by burgerrr at 10:17 AM on July 19, 2016 [6 favorites]


Best answer: He told me I woke up something in him, and that I had in a perverse way, helped him save his marriage.

I was not faithful to my husband. I read all the actual research I could find on the topic.

He will not leave. His relationship to you will stabilize the marriage -- until the vindictive wife finds some way to fuck you over, apparently.

A man whose wife has gotten his girlfriend deported who seeks out another girlfriend without getting divorced first is telling you straight up that he is entirely comfortable with letting your life be utterly ruined so he can get laid.

Furthermore, assuming his tale of woe is accurate and his wife is really gay and just cannot accept that about herself and that is why she married him, the sort of man who chooses to marry a woman with that level of baggage and stays with her for years while blaming everything on her has just as much or more baggage and is unwilling to own it.

I have had a number of relationships with married men. I wouldn't touch this with a 10,000 foot pole.
posted by Michele in California at 10:41 AM on July 19, 2016 [9 favorites]


Also, stop calling him A. That sounds like a god grade.
Call him B for Bad for you.
Call him M for Married.
Call him U for Unavailable.

Start thinking about him differently.
posted by SLC Mom at 10:49 AM on July 19, 2016 [4 favorites]


He was very upfront in his bio that he was only looking for friendship and I thought that it was a welcome change from the usual guys I had been chatting with. In the first minutes of my text conversation with him, he said he has been married for the last 10 years, and has two boys.

99% of women would be screened out by this immediately. That's the proportion of women, by my estimate, who would swiftly delete his profile and move on to browsing all the profiles of single, honest, emotionally available men looking for a romantic relationship.

But you, you're... different. I hope you block this man's number ASAP and get a therapist who can help you figure out why you don't believe you deserve a real relationship.
posted by Guinevere at 12:55 PM on July 20, 2016 [3 favorites]


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