Dealing with a pushy personality type
July 4, 2016 11:49 AM Subscribe
My mother has a somewhat pushy personality type. This is creating some conflicts at home for me. How can I address this?
My mother has a somewhat pushy personality type, and this has always been a bit of an issue for my husband. His ex-wife had a mother like this, and this has made the issue more sensitive for him than it might otherwise be.
The problem for me is, I think they are kind of at cross-purposes here. I think he needs to just accept that this is her base personality stop expecting her to change and interpreting it as a personal attack on him when she doesn't, and trust me to stick up for him if it gets out of hand. He thinks she needs to 'learn' how to not 'disrespect' him, and that we need to implement some sort of consequence for her if she doesn't, so that she will mend her ways.
But I don't think she CAN mend her ways. She is who she is. She winters in Florida and isn't even here for half the year, and I don't really have a co-dependent relationship with her by any means. I've struggled to work with him on just accepting her during the limited time he spends with her. But now that we have a child on the way, his anxiety around this issue has ramped up and I am weary of fighting with him over this. Some examples of behaviour he has specifically mentioned as 'disrespecting' to him:
- She pushes food. That is, she asks him when we get there if he wants anything. He says no. She will periodically offer it again ('are you sure you don't want a cookie?') She thinks she is being a polite hostess. He thinks she is pressuring him and needs to learn to ask only one time, and then accept his answer.
- She also pushes us to take food home. And again, she will ask more than one time. ('are you sure you don't want to take home the rest of the watermelon?') He does not enjoy leftovers as a general rule, but more than that, he views this behaviour as an attempt to exert control over him and his household. SHE does not view it that way, but he does.
The big issue is that she badly wants us to come to visit her at her Florida house. She has offered to pay for it. She has offered for me to come without him, and she will pay for it. She badly wants to show off the coming grandchild to all of her friends. For a reason that is important to him, this is completely off the table. We are flat-out not doing this. But she will periodically bring it up in a cajoling sort of way. I think she feels we are being unreasonable, and that if she can approach it from the right angle, we will see the light and agree.
And yet, every time it has come up, it has led to an epic fight between husband and I later. The last time it happened, I flat-out told her she is not to mention this subject again. Whether she agrees or disagrees with it being a sensitive issue, it is, and it's going to cause problems for me in my relationship if she cannot respect this. This dream of hers to get us there to Florida has to die. I am sorry it has to be that way, but I am not risking my marriage over one vacation. He has made a lot of progress on the family issues. This is his one hill to die on. It is not negotiable at all. I made this as clear to her as I could, the last time it came up. But I am afraid she won't understand the gravity here, and that in her mind, this is the same as 'are you sure you wouldn't like another cookie?'
He has made a lot of progress over the last few years on deconstructing some of his issues and getting to a more comfortable place with my mother. She is going to jeopardize it all if she doesn't learn to hang back a little and stop pushing. Yes, he has to work on his coping skills. Yes, he has to get more comfortable with compromising. Yes, he has to understand that the child's relationship with her is not about him, and I have made it clear to him that he can't try to 'punish' her by withholding the grandchild.
But dang it, she can be a pushy push! And I am at the point where I agree with him that she has to learn to cool off a little. But if this is just her personality and she truly, truly can't do it---then it's going to be a very tiresome thing for me and him to keep fighting about. What do I do?
My mother has a somewhat pushy personality type, and this has always been a bit of an issue for my husband. His ex-wife had a mother like this, and this has made the issue more sensitive for him than it might otherwise be.
The problem for me is, I think they are kind of at cross-purposes here. I think he needs to just accept that this is her base personality stop expecting her to change and interpreting it as a personal attack on him when she doesn't, and trust me to stick up for him if it gets out of hand. He thinks she needs to 'learn' how to not 'disrespect' him, and that we need to implement some sort of consequence for her if she doesn't, so that she will mend her ways.
But I don't think she CAN mend her ways. She is who she is. She winters in Florida and isn't even here for half the year, and I don't really have a co-dependent relationship with her by any means. I've struggled to work with him on just accepting her during the limited time he spends with her. But now that we have a child on the way, his anxiety around this issue has ramped up and I am weary of fighting with him over this. Some examples of behaviour he has specifically mentioned as 'disrespecting' to him:
- She pushes food. That is, she asks him when we get there if he wants anything. He says no. She will periodically offer it again ('are you sure you don't want a cookie?') She thinks she is being a polite hostess. He thinks she is pressuring him and needs to learn to ask only one time, and then accept his answer.
- She also pushes us to take food home. And again, she will ask more than one time. ('are you sure you don't want to take home the rest of the watermelon?') He does not enjoy leftovers as a general rule, but more than that, he views this behaviour as an attempt to exert control over him and his household. SHE does not view it that way, but he does.
The big issue is that she badly wants us to come to visit her at her Florida house. She has offered to pay for it. She has offered for me to come without him, and she will pay for it. She badly wants to show off the coming grandchild to all of her friends. For a reason that is important to him, this is completely off the table. We are flat-out not doing this. But she will periodically bring it up in a cajoling sort of way. I think she feels we are being unreasonable, and that if she can approach it from the right angle, we will see the light and agree.
And yet, every time it has come up, it has led to an epic fight between husband and I later. The last time it happened, I flat-out told her she is not to mention this subject again. Whether she agrees or disagrees with it being a sensitive issue, it is, and it's going to cause problems for me in my relationship if she cannot respect this. This dream of hers to get us there to Florida has to die. I am sorry it has to be that way, but I am not risking my marriage over one vacation. He has made a lot of progress on the family issues. This is his one hill to die on. It is not negotiable at all. I made this as clear to her as I could, the last time it came up. But I am afraid she won't understand the gravity here, and that in her mind, this is the same as 'are you sure you wouldn't like another cookie?'
He has made a lot of progress over the last few years on deconstructing some of his issues and getting to a more comfortable place with my mother. She is going to jeopardize it all if she doesn't learn to hang back a little and stop pushing. Yes, he has to work on his coping skills. Yes, he has to get more comfortable with compromising. Yes, he has to understand that the child's relationship with her is not about him, and I have made it clear to him that he can't try to 'punish' her by withholding the grandchild.
But dang it, she can be a pushy push! And I am at the point where I agree with him that she has to learn to cool off a little. But if this is just her personality and she truly, truly can't do it---then it's going to be a very tiresome thing for me and him to keep fighting about. What do I do?
Well, to the extent that this is really about your mom's behavior, I'd focus on that -- her behavior -- not her personality. You won't get anywhere by asking her not to "be" something, but you might get her to agree to do or not do certain things. That said, this sounds like it's 95% your husband's problem, and my guess it will manifest in some other way soon after your mom complies with whatever the current demand might be.
posted by jon1270 at 12:03 PM on July 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by jon1270 at 12:03 PM on July 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
My mother is the opposite of pushy and she'd do everything described above. Grandmas offer food. What if he had gotten hungry? Grandmas offer left overs. Grandmas ask you to come visit. Otherwise we'd be looking for a post on how your mom is super cold and doesn't show you love.
Your husband is being ridiculous. These things are not pushy at all. He needs to grow up. If you want the leftovers, take them. Go visit your mom. Send husband to therapy. Let him read this thread.
posted by Kalmya at 12:05 PM on July 4, 2016 [88 favorites]
Your husband is being ridiculous. These things are not pushy at all. He needs to grow up. If you want the leftovers, take them. Go visit your mom. Send husband to therapy. Let him read this thread.
posted by Kalmya at 12:05 PM on July 4, 2016 [88 favorites]
Oh man, I'm sorry -- it sounds like you're stuck between two strong personalities here. For the record, I agree with you that 90% of the adjusting should come from your husband.
But have you tried just talking to your mom about it? E.g., "mom, when you repeatedly offer food, I know you just mean to be nice, but it can come across as disrespect, as though they don't know their own mind. In Jason's family / culture, the only people who get cajoled like that are young children."
You could also work with her on it in the moment: "we already said 'no,' ma. Have we ever changed our minds? But thank you. It was delicious." "Oops, you're asking again! :) I think we already said 'no' maybe sixteen times? :)"
But your mom has had 60+ years to get set in her ways and doesn't sound malicious, so again, I think your husband needs to relax. How hard is it to say (or hear said) "no thanks" or "I wish we could come, Mom, but we just can't, I'm sorry" one more time? Especially regarding the trip, he already got his way; can't he be gracious about it?
posted by salvia at 12:10 PM on July 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
But have you tried just talking to your mom about it? E.g., "mom, when you repeatedly offer food, I know you just mean to be nice, but it can come across as disrespect, as though they don't know their own mind. In Jason's family / culture, the only people who get cajoled like that are young children."
You could also work with her on it in the moment: "we already said 'no,' ma. Have we ever changed our minds? But thank you. It was delicious." "Oops, you're asking again! :) I think we already said 'no' maybe sixteen times? :)"
But your mom has had 60+ years to get set in her ways and doesn't sound malicious, so again, I think your husband needs to relax. How hard is it to say (or hear said) "no thanks" or "I wish we could come, Mom, but we just can't, I'm sorry" one more time? Especially regarding the trip, he already got his way; can't he be gracious about it?
posted by salvia at 12:10 PM on July 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
A visit with your mom, where she lives half the year, is a big deal? Your husband will never accept a free holiday, it's a hill to die on? I don't know a mom who's not a food pusher, that's what the moms I know do, because they think food is love (and honestly it does take love (or something) to spend half a day planning and cooking a meal for 4-5). And there are ways to manage, I mean, you could take it with you, but not eat it?
Your husband is being a child. He has AH-LHAT more work to do, it sounds like, A LOT.
Agree, one million times over. You're right, she's not going to change. Your husband is being insulting and incredibly naive when he suggests a mature adult can or should be trained like a pet.
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:13 PM on July 4, 2016 [28 favorites]
Your husband is being a child. He has AH-LHAT more work to do, it sounds like, A LOT.
Agree, one million times over. You're right, she's not going to change. Your husband is being insulting and incredibly naive when he suggests a mature adult can or should be trained like a pet.
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:13 PM on July 4, 2016 [28 favorites]
Based only on what you've written here, I think your husband is being completely unreasonable. 100%. The only acceptable reason to me that your husband won't "allow" you and your child to go to Florida to visit your mother is if your mother's neighbor is a registered pedophile. I mean, really. He won't "let" you take your kid, on a FREE TRIP, to see grandma? I don't get it.
And everything you've written about your husband here makes him seem incredibly rigid, controlling, and uncompromising. We clearly don't have all the information you have but really, it just sounds like your mom is a rather nice person who wants to be a good host and is being the stereotypical Grandma even before the baby is here.
posted by cooker girl at 12:14 PM on July 4, 2016 [31 favorites]
And everything you've written about your husband here makes him seem incredibly rigid, controlling, and uncompromising. We clearly don't have all the information you have but really, it just sounds like your mom is a rather nice person who wants to be a good host and is being the stereotypical Grandma even before the baby is here.
posted by cooker girl at 12:14 PM on July 4, 2016 [31 favorites]
To what degree can you just isolate them from each other, when she's in town? I mean, he doesn't have to know that she's saying this stuff.
In any case, you can't do very much about how either of them think, feel, or behave. Consider the value of walking away from arguments on the subject.
posted by SMPA at 12:14 PM on July 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
In any case, you can't do very much about how either of them think, feel, or behave. Consider the value of walking away from arguments on the subject.
posted by SMPA at 12:14 PM on July 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Re food: Have you tried saying proactively something like "No thanks. I will let you know if I change my mind."?
My mom grew up under conditions where food was in short supply. She tends to be on a mission to prevent everyone around her from starving. A few times, I pointedly told her "My kids are not in danger of starving to death." It took a bit, but it eventually sank in.
For the big issue thing that is threatening your marriage, perhaps it is time to sit her down privately and let her know that if you have to choose between the two of them, she will lose that battle and you don't really want to cut her out of your life. The next time she brings it up, if you are at her place, you leave. If she is at your place, you show her the door. Rinse and repeat until either she shuts up or you have broken all ties with her.
Though I also agree with Dressed to Kill. If your husband is threatening to leave you over your mother's aggravating behavior, you have a bigger problem than your mother being annoying. I mean, for me, one of the joys of getting divorced was no longer being related to the in-laws, but I never threatened divorce over it. I just increasingly went "It's your family. You deal with them. Not my problem."
Also, I would personally tell my husband to shove his controlling BS up his ass. If your mother is willing to pay for you to travel to see her without him, this should not be a BFD. I had a 1950s style marriage, yet if my relatives paid my airfare, the husband said not one damn word about me going to see them. I am guessing your husband would not be cool with you unilaterally deciding he couldn't do X.
I mean, this is the 21st century and his expectation seems excessively controlling even by the 20th century barefoot, pregnant and chained to the stove standards that largely drove my marriage.
posted by Michele in California at 12:15 PM on July 4, 2016 [18 favorites]
My mom grew up under conditions where food was in short supply. She tends to be on a mission to prevent everyone around her from starving. A few times, I pointedly told her "My kids are not in danger of starving to death." It took a bit, but it eventually sank in.
For the big issue thing that is threatening your marriage, perhaps it is time to sit her down privately and let her know that if you have to choose between the two of them, she will lose that battle and you don't really want to cut her out of your life. The next time she brings it up, if you are at her place, you leave. If she is at your place, you show her the door. Rinse and repeat until either she shuts up or you have broken all ties with her.
Though I also agree with Dressed to Kill. If your husband is threatening to leave you over your mother's aggravating behavior, you have a bigger problem than your mother being annoying. I mean, for me, one of the joys of getting divorced was no longer being related to the in-laws, but I never threatened divorce over it. I just increasingly went "It's your family. You deal with them. Not my problem."
Also, I would personally tell my husband to shove his controlling BS up his ass. If your mother is willing to pay for you to travel to see her without him, this should not be a BFD. I had a 1950s style marriage, yet if my relatives paid my airfare, the husband said not one damn word about me going to see them. I am guessing your husband would not be cool with you unilaterally deciding he couldn't do X.
I mean, this is the 21st century and his expectation seems excessively controlling even by the 20th century barefoot, pregnant and chained to the stove standards that largely drove my marriage.
posted by Michele in California at 12:15 PM on July 4, 2016 [18 favorites]
Do you feel like you understand what this is really about? Because his reaction is not in proportion to the behaviors you are describing, and it makes me wonder whether he is actually reacting to something else. Maybe he sees the nudging and pushy behaviors you describe as harbingers of similar pushing on much more important issues, especially if kids are involved. Fundamentally, does he feel seen and heard and respected by your mom? Maybe if she can find a way to make him feel that, these lesser issues could become less significant to him.
posted by prefpara at 12:15 PM on July 4, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by prefpara at 12:15 PM on July 4, 2016 [14 favorites]
Generally mother's like to dote on their kids and grandkids - they like to make sure that their kids are comfortable and fed. This is what mothers do. This is what my my mum does. Your mum isn't being pushy, she's being motherly, and sounds lovely.
Two things worried me about your post:
1) "he views this behaviour as an attempt to exert control over him and his household"
This is an insane reading of the situation and your husband needs to take a step back. If anything he's the controlling one and this behaviour is clearly having a negative effect on the relationship you have with your mother.
2) "For a reason that is important to him, this is completely off the table. We are flat-out not doing this."
Does your mother know the reason why this trip is off the table? You say that she is never to mention it again, but unless she knows why she will likely still keep asking. Again, this is exceptionally controlling behaviour from your husband, and if it continues, will likely drive a rift between you and your mother that you won't be able to heal.
Perhaps that's what he wants.
In short: your mother sounds great. Your husband sounds like brat.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 12:17 PM on July 4, 2016 [55 favorites]
Two things worried me about your post:
1) "he views this behaviour as an attempt to exert control over him and his household"
This is an insane reading of the situation and your husband needs to take a step back. If anything he's the controlling one and this behaviour is clearly having a negative effect on the relationship you have with your mother.
2) "For a reason that is important to him, this is completely off the table. We are flat-out not doing this."
Does your mother know the reason why this trip is off the table? You say that she is never to mention it again, but unless she knows why she will likely still keep asking. Again, this is exceptionally controlling behaviour from your husband, and if it continues, will likely drive a rift between you and your mother that you won't be able to heal.
Perhaps that's what he wants.
In short: your mother sounds great. Your husband sounds like brat.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 12:17 PM on July 4, 2016 [55 favorites]
He thinks she needs to 'learn' how to not 'disrespect' him,
If he sees the offer of watermelon as a measure of disrespect, has a hair-trigger response to it that tires you (is meant to tire you and get you to comply), and is rigid and uncompromising on matters affecting the whole family (imo kids should be able to hang with grandparents, it's usually good for them; you should be able to see your mom on your own if you want to), I think he might be a little fragile, and could probably do with third-party support on that score. I think you both will need some help to get through this.
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:20 PM on July 4, 2016 [26 favorites]
If he sees the offer of watermelon as a measure of disrespect, has a hair-trigger response to it that tires you (is meant to tire you and get you to comply), and is rigid and uncompromising on matters affecting the whole family (imo kids should be able to hang with grandparents, it's usually good for them; you should be able to see your mom on your own if you want to), I think he might be a little fragile, and could probably do with third-party support on that score. I think you both will need some help to get through this.
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:20 PM on July 4, 2016 [26 favorites]
Wow, I'm with everyone who is on your mother's side here. She is doing nothing unreasonable. Your husband should talk to someone, maybe a therapist, about what is normal behavior.
And go see your mother in Florida, with or without him.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:20 PM on July 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
And go see your mother in Florida, with or without him.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:20 PM on July 4, 2016 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: Not to threadsit, but on the food issue, I agree his expectations are unreasonable and we have tried to work on that. The Florida issue is more complex in that a person who hurt him very badly lives in the same community as my mother, and him going there is a potential PTSD trigger. I have, and will, back him on the Florida thing as there are some actually legit reasons for it which I accept and respect. But given that I have discussed these reasons with my mother and made them clear to her, I think it does border on disrespect for her to continue bringing it up. I do think there is a potential argument here for 'she simply cannot take no for an answer' and that is the part I want to address.
posted by JoannaC at 12:29 PM on July 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by JoannaC at 12:29 PM on July 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm aghast you are not allowed to visit your mother, pregnant or otherwise.
Tell your husband to get therapy or get lost. The only one being controlling and disrespectful is him. Specifically, he's being disrespectful towards you by disparaging your mother and undermining your relationship with her.
You should be very worried this person is so hateful towards your parent. You failed to cite one awful thing your mother has done to either of you...
Do you think your mom keeps asking you to visit because she's worried for your wellbeing?
Your mom is older than you, and I bet she's seen a lot. Your husband's scared because he may have you fooled, but an older person with life experience probably clocks him for the insecure and controlling spouse he is according to everything you have written.
Couples therapy. You deserve better, especially as you are about to become a mother yourself.
posted by jbenben at 12:31 PM on July 4, 2016 [52 favorites]
Tell your husband to get therapy or get lost. The only one being controlling and disrespectful is him. Specifically, he's being disrespectful towards you by disparaging your mother and undermining your relationship with her.
You should be very worried this person is so hateful towards your parent. You failed to cite one awful thing your mother has done to either of you...
Do you think your mom keeps asking you to visit because she's worried for your wellbeing?
Your mom is older than you, and I bet she's seen a lot. Your husband's scared because he may have you fooled, but an older person with life experience probably clocks him for the insecure and controlling spouse he is according to everything you have written.
Couples therapy. You deserve better, especially as you are about to become a mother yourself.
posted by jbenben at 12:31 PM on July 4, 2016 [52 favorites]
But that doesn't explain why you can't go with the grandkid by yourself. The fact that he's ruled that out too is the problem.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 12:32 PM on July 4, 2016 [98 favorites]
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 12:32 PM on July 4, 2016 [98 favorites]
The PTSD is not your mother's problem, to be very frank, and is not a reason that he shouldn't get therapy, and is certainly not a reason for you not to visit with the child.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:34 PM on July 4, 2016 [42 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:34 PM on July 4, 2016 [42 favorites]
I think it does border on disrespect for her to continue bringing it up.
I imagine it is coming from the pain of rejection, not being able to see her grandkid or daughter except on very limited terms that are dictated by your husband, and possibly, concern for you, as jbenben astutely pointed out. She may or may not understand PTSD - or if she does, may not see it as a valid explanation for your husband's bizarre stance, vs. a rationalization for the controlling behaviour you have described.
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:38 PM on July 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
I imagine it is coming from the pain of rejection, not being able to see her grandkid or daughter except on very limited terms that are dictated by your husband, and possibly, concern for you, as jbenben astutely pointed out. She may or may not understand PTSD - or if she does, may not see it as a valid explanation for your husband's bizarre stance, vs. a rationalization for the controlling behaviour you have described.
posted by cotton dress sock at 12:38 PM on July 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
It's unreasonable for your husband to put you in a position where you have to control someone else's behavior so they don't "jeopardize everything." You can ask her to stop, and you can enforce boundaries when she is pushy, but you can't literally keep her from saying or doing certain things. I am concerned that your husband is putting you in an impossible situation to isolate you from your mother. Do be wary if his next "solution" to these minor problems involves cutting her off somehow.
posted by almostmanda at 12:38 PM on July 4, 2016 [43 favorites]
posted by almostmanda at 12:38 PM on July 4, 2016 [43 favorites]
If your answer is going to remain "no" (and I tend to agree that your husband ought to get over this "person in same community" thing unless he specifically worries the child would be harmed -- could this person be avoided entirely?), then I think you should switch to focusing on your mom's feelings. Every time she tries to get you to visit, treat it as though she said "I really wish you could come" and reply with things like "I know how much you wish we could come, Mom. I wish it were possible, too. I'm sorry it isn't" and "I'm sorry, I know you're really sad about not being able to introduce Baby to your friends."
posted by salvia at 12:43 PM on July 4, 2016
posted by salvia at 12:43 PM on July 4, 2016
It is possible for both of them to be in the wrong. It does not have to be a case of "One of them is right, the other wrong."
I have already given you some scripts for how to deal with mom. But you need to be forewarned here: Saying "yes" to him dictating that you cannot travel without him, regardless of whatever legitimate reason he has for not wanting to go there, is a dangerous first step onto a slippery slope where he increasingly dictates what you can and cannot do.
I mean, perhaps you have some hidden reasons why you do not want to go and you are just making him out to be the bad guy. I did some of that in my marriage, to good effect. But we can only answer based on the information provided. And the information provided is worrisome.
Abuse starts small and grows. It doesn't start with having the hell beaten out of you, but it can culminate there. So, I do not accept that kind of control from a man. I know too well where it leads. Even if it does not lead to physical violence, it leads nowhere good.
Best.
posted by Michele in California at 12:43 PM on July 4, 2016 [20 favorites]
I have already given you some scripts for how to deal with mom. But you need to be forewarned here: Saying "yes" to him dictating that you cannot travel without him, regardless of whatever legitimate reason he has for not wanting to go there, is a dangerous first step onto a slippery slope where he increasingly dictates what you can and cannot do.
I mean, perhaps you have some hidden reasons why you do not want to go and you are just making him out to be the bad guy. I did some of that in my marriage, to good effect. But we can only answer based on the information provided. And the information provided is worrisome.
Abuse starts small and grows. It doesn't start with having the hell beaten out of you, but it can culminate there. So, I do not accept that kind of control from a man. I know too well where it leads. Even if it does not lead to physical violence, it leads nowhere good.
Best.
posted by Michele in California at 12:43 PM on July 4, 2016 [20 favorites]
Also, I just want to say that his PTSD can be his problem to deal with. There are people with PTSD who wouldn't deal with it by trying to control you and your mom.
posted by salvia at 12:47 PM on July 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by salvia at 12:47 PM on July 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
Response by poster: To add also, we do see her often, while she is in town. I do know that some of this is about deeper issues, for which he has, and is, having therapy over. I just wish she could back off on bringing it up, over and over again, while that work is going on. It isn't helping the deeper issue get fixed.
posted by JoannaC at 12:48 PM on July 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by JoannaC at 12:48 PM on July 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
I feel like you can mitigate the issue by telling her that when she goes down to Florida, you and the baby will come next winter for a week to show off. Then buy plane tickets. She will stop asking.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:51 PM on July 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:51 PM on July 4, 2016 [5 favorites]
Upon your update...
Is the person(s) your husband wants to avoid family with your husband? Or non-family he has no lasting ties with? When you say community, do you mean in the same town, housing community, or a near neighbor? What is the likelihood you will cross paths with this person? Are they dangerous in some way??
If the person(s) are dangerous and live down the block from your mom, your husband has a point. But then maybe your mom should move, just to be safe?
It really does sound like your husband requires treatment for whatever trauma he experienced, because clearly it's still hurting him and possibly the root of some of this nit picking with your mom?
It's still grossly unfair to your mother and you. If you want her to stop bringing it up, have another talk with her.
posted by jbenben at 12:55 PM on July 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Is the person(s) your husband wants to avoid family with your husband? Or non-family he has no lasting ties with? When you say community, do you mean in the same town, housing community, or a near neighbor? What is the likelihood you will cross paths with this person? Are they dangerous in some way??
If the person(s) are dangerous and live down the block from your mom, your husband has a point. But then maybe your mom should move, just to be safe?
It really does sound like your husband requires treatment for whatever trauma he experienced, because clearly it's still hurting him and possibly the root of some of this nit picking with your mom?
It's still grossly unfair to your mother and you. If you want her to stop bringing it up, have another talk with her.
posted by jbenben at 12:55 PM on July 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Best answer: It isn't helping the deeper issue get fixed.
Finding a viable answer for dealing with her behavior that respects all parties will help those deeper issues. But it has to respect all parties and not make his issues the only important matter in the equation. Give her pushback on things like "Yeah, we already answered that. Please, stop asking it." But don't vilify her. Habits are hard to change.
Life just gets weirder, not healthier or more normal, when one person's issues trump everyone else's everything all the time. My husband did some significant accommodating of my problems, but my problems were not the center of our universe, even though they were plenty big and got plenty of support.
posted by Michele in California at 1:00 PM on July 4, 2016 [20 favorites]
Finding a viable answer for dealing with her behavior that respects all parties will help those deeper issues. But it has to respect all parties and not make his issues the only important matter in the equation. Give her pushback on things like "Yeah, we already answered that. Please, stop asking it." But don't vilify her. Habits are hard to change.
Life just gets weirder, not healthier or more normal, when one person's issues trump everyone else's everything all the time. My husband did some significant accommodating of my problems, but my problems were not the center of our universe, even though they were plenty big and got plenty of support.
posted by Michele in California at 1:00 PM on July 4, 2016 [20 favorites]
So...imagine your husband were neutral about you going to Florida solo. Is it what you would want to do for yourself? Not only to appease your mom? Then you really should do it.
The one thing nobody seems to be asking is what you actually want. You're incredibly stressed out trying to do what other, conflicting people want. This is your health and happiness at stake. This is energy and self care that should directly benefit your darling baby. Instead you're locked up in this stupid conflict.
What do you want? Why are neither your mom nor your husband asking you that? Why are they not falling over themselves making life emotionally easier for you, the expecting mom?
You deserve peace. You deserve to ask them both to back the fuck off with any demands, to have them both accept what you want to do, and to let you do it without comment.
You're having a baby! Support is your due, instead you get to support everyone else!
Take care of yourself, please. Somebody has to.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:04 PM on July 4, 2016 [68 favorites]
The one thing nobody seems to be asking is what you actually want. You're incredibly stressed out trying to do what other, conflicting people want. This is your health and happiness at stake. This is energy and self care that should directly benefit your darling baby. Instead you're locked up in this stupid conflict.
What do you want? Why are neither your mom nor your husband asking you that? Why are they not falling over themselves making life emotionally easier for you, the expecting mom?
You deserve peace. You deserve to ask them both to back the fuck off with any demands, to have them both accept what you want to do, and to let you do it without comment.
You're having a baby! Support is your due, instead you get to support everyone else!
Take care of yourself, please. Somebody has to.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:04 PM on July 4, 2016 [68 favorites]
Not sure why I'm giving this a stab since when I read this, it's the partner, not the mother with this issues. But I'm suggesting these solutions for your piece of mind/reduction of stress, OP.
I've seen friends do this, although it was for a serious issue of boundary crossing. The husband continued to visit his family, but did not bring his wife for the next X months and would state, "not here today because [reason of boundary, previously stated]" After x months, they both visited the family again, and there was not as much boundary pushing.
But I'm suggesting this so that you can visit your mother and eat whatever food, as much as you want, as many times offered. Leave the husband at home. Do mention that your husband doesn't like food being offered a few times, but for everyone's enjoyment, don't mention him when you are there (and when you go home, don't mention it to your husband.)
If left overs are offered, and you want them, take them! Because he does not have to eat them (what is this *his household* stuff?) But slowly work on that with him. He does not need to eat other food, it has nothing to do with him.
The vacation thing. I am not sure I understand this. Of course your mother is excited and would hope to see the grandchild. If there is truly this limit to neighborhood, I don't understand why you don't promise her another visit to look forward to - somewhere both you and her and the baby can go (and I would leave the husband out for enjoyment sake/and because he obviously has issues, why antagonize this.)
To be honest, I've seen many friends go through divorces (some had abusive relationships, others did not). But the horrible thing of the aftermath of some divorces is that friends are often long gone. My concern here is that your partner is already trying to end or reduce a relationship for what sounds like petty reasons, or psychological reasons. There is no way to conform to these types of requests (ie, not offer food?), unless you cut off the world.
I would start to observe your friends and colleagues and how their families behave. Where have you not seen people offer food or have it be construed as rudeness? Ask yourself these questions when your husband tries to change your view.
posted by Wolfster at 1:05 PM on July 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
I've seen friends do this, although it was for a serious issue of boundary crossing. The husband continued to visit his family, but did not bring his wife for the next X months and would state, "not here today because [reason of boundary, previously stated]" After x months, they both visited the family again, and there was not as much boundary pushing.
But I'm suggesting this so that you can visit your mother and eat whatever food, as much as you want, as many times offered. Leave the husband at home. Do mention that your husband doesn't like food being offered a few times, but for everyone's enjoyment, don't mention him when you are there (and when you go home, don't mention it to your husband.)
If left overs are offered, and you want them, take them! Because he does not have to eat them (what is this *his household* stuff?) But slowly work on that with him. He does not need to eat other food, it has nothing to do with him.
The vacation thing. I am not sure I understand this. Of course your mother is excited and would hope to see the grandchild. If there is truly this limit to neighborhood, I don't understand why you don't promise her another visit to look forward to - somewhere both you and her and the baby can go (and I would leave the husband out for enjoyment sake/and because he obviously has issues, why antagonize this.)
To be honest, I've seen many friends go through divorces (some had abusive relationships, others did not). But the horrible thing of the aftermath of some divorces is that friends are often long gone. My concern here is that your partner is already trying to end or reduce a relationship for what sounds like petty reasons, or psychological reasons. There is no way to conform to these types of requests (ie, not offer food?), unless you cut off the world.
I would start to observe your friends and colleagues and how their families behave. Where have you not seen people offer food or have it be construed as rudeness? Ask yourself these questions when your husband tries to change your view.
posted by Wolfster at 1:05 PM on July 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
At first, I read this AskMe as someone getting angry at pretty standard elderly parent behavior...
But then came the part about not only refusing to EVER visit as a family--not even once--but to never "let you" and your upcoming child visit them... this seems like a huge red flag.
So, he has this super-convenient excuse that in all the world, there's this one person who hurt him and then, remarkably, moved into the exact same development as your mother... so of course that's why he can never step foot there...
But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with just you and your daughter/son going to visit your mother. Nothing!
This refusal to "allow you" to make your own choices, to EVER visit your own mother for gods sake, strikes me as the classic "limit a partners access to friends and loved ones" of abusive spouses.
You say he has made a lot of progress, but from the view where I sit, it is not nearly enough--like, if this were a medical situation, he would need to be in the ICU.
I see you making a lot of excuses for him--that he has come so far, and that here is this mystery person that is neighbors with your mom and that's why he is restricting your movements...
and your choices...
and your life...
I urge you--please, if not for yourself, for the life of your unborn child--to call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 and just talk to them.
Read them the question you have posted, and get their input.
They can help.
Please.
posted by blueberry at 1:07 PM on July 4, 2016 [62 favorites]
But then came the part about not only refusing to EVER visit as a family--not even once--but to never "let you" and your upcoming child visit them... this seems like a huge red flag.
So, he has this super-convenient excuse that in all the world, there's this one person who hurt him and then, remarkably, moved into the exact same development as your mother... so of course that's why he can never step foot there...
But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with just you and your daughter/son going to visit your mother. Nothing!
This refusal to "allow you" to make your own choices, to EVER visit your own mother for gods sake, strikes me as the classic "limit a partners access to friends and loved ones" of abusive spouses.
You say he has made a lot of progress, but from the view where I sit, it is not nearly enough--like, if this were a medical situation, he would need to be in the ICU.
I see you making a lot of excuses for him--that he has come so far, and that here is this mystery person that is neighbors with your mom and that's why he is restricting your movements...
and your choices...
and your life...
I urge you--please, if not for yourself, for the life of your unborn child--to call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 and just talk to them.
Read them the question you have posted, and get their input.
They can help.
Please.
posted by blueberry at 1:07 PM on July 4, 2016 [62 favorites]
Are you guys in counseling? You've been posting about your husband for a long time, ansd he's always sounded kind of inflexible and...difficult. I worry about what's going to happen when you have a baby with needs that will have to come first.
posted by cakelite at 1:08 PM on July 4, 2016 [27 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 1:08 PM on July 4, 2016 [27 favorites]
I will trust you that you find it reasonable for your husband to not want your child to visit this place. We don't know those circumstances.
With that said, your mother needs an actual consequence for the next time she brings it up. It can be as simple as taking a "time out" from phone calls, etc.
The food thing seems like a much smaller scale to me. But if you have told her flat out that you are not visiting because Reasons, and you have told her flat out to stop asking, and she keeps pushing, then she loses the chance to ask you for awhile.
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:14 PM on July 4, 2016
With that said, your mother needs an actual consequence for the next time she brings it up. It can be as simple as taking a "time out" from phone calls, etc.
The food thing seems like a much smaller scale to me. But if you have told her flat out that you are not visiting because Reasons, and you have told her flat out to stop asking, and she keeps pushing, then she loses the chance to ask you for awhile.
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:14 PM on July 4, 2016
Taking your question at face value: have you spoken to your mom about this issue in the way you are describing it here, e.g. "husband has some significant issues with the idea of traveling to Florida, and he's working on them, but in the meantime the fact that you keep bringing it up causes stress for all of us at home"? Maybe if she realized that she could help you by avoiding certain behaviours and topics she might want to do that.
But, I agree with those above who are saying that your husband's reactions are disproportionate, and that trying to change the environment, i.e. the behaviour of others, is probably a short term solution at best.
posted by rpfields at 1:24 PM on July 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
But, I agree with those above who are saying that your husband's reactions are disproportionate, and that trying to change the environment, i.e. the behaviour of others, is probably a short term solution at best.
posted by rpfields at 1:24 PM on July 4, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Look, I'm sorry my mom annoys you. I find the repeated questions grating too. THAT SAID -- she is not going to change, and I'm not going to cut her out of my life. I will try to minimize how much time you two see one another by going alone to her place instead of having her over here, but when you do see one another, I need you to be pleasant -- for my sake."
"Mom, Husband gets all bent out of shape when you ask us to take food more than once. In his family it's very not done to ask a question more than once, and he and I have actually had fights about it. I know that seems weird, but you'd really be making my life easier if you'd only ask once, OK? "
And add me to the list of people who find it inappropriately controlling that your husband forbids you to go to Florida without him. If it's not objectively dangerous for you two to go, then I would go. Not going sets a creepy precedent.
posted by hungrytiger at 1:38 PM on July 4, 2016 [16 favorites]
"Mom, Husband gets all bent out of shape when you ask us to take food more than once. In his family it's very not done to ask a question more than once, and he and I have actually had fights about it. I know that seems weird, but you'd really be making my life easier if you'd only ask once, OK? "
And add me to the list of people who find it inappropriately controlling that your husband forbids you to go to Florida without him. If it's not objectively dangerous for you two to go, then I would go. Not going sets a creepy precedent.
posted by hungrytiger at 1:38 PM on July 4, 2016 [16 favorites]
I'm scared for you, OP. Your husband seems to have convinced your that typical human behavior is somehow pushy. I'm flabbergasted by your husband's reaction to your mom's questions. If he's that critical over these minor issues, what else does he do? I hope he hasn't convinced you that other, normal behaviors, are also somehow unacceptable.
I'm trying to envision why an entire state would be off limits to you and your kids. I get that maybe he can't go, but why place restrictions on you? This seems incredibly unfair and controlling on his part. In your mother's shoes, I would be very worried about you and maybe that's part of the reason she keeps asking.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:53 PM on July 4, 2016 [37 favorites]
I'm trying to envision why an entire state would be off limits to you and your kids. I get that maybe he can't go, but why place restrictions on you? This seems incredibly unfair and controlling on his part. In your mother's shoes, I would be very worried about you and maybe that's part of the reason she keeps asking.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:53 PM on July 4, 2016 [37 favorites]
My sister-in-law is like your husband and gets unreasonably upset at my mother's harmless and well-intentioned behaviors. Like your husband, she imputes meaning to things that just isn't there except in her own head. The thing about "drawing boundaries" about stuff like offering food more than once is that it becomes impossible to keep track of all the persnickety little rules set by the controlling person. It's a losing game for your poor mother to try to jump through your husband's hoops. And when you ask her to, you're reinforcing your husband's unreasonable and unhealthy way of relating to your mother (and to you). You need to reevaluate whose behavior needs to change.
If your husband is truly making progress on his issues (which is not at all clear if he's offended by being offered leftovers), then maybe you could tell your mother, "look, I know this seems unreasonable, but a visit with the baby is off the table for six months. Husband is working on his issues around this with a therapist, and bringing it up is hindering his progress. You and I can revisit it in six months." Acknowledge the problem, acknowledge that it's not reasonable, and give her some hope for the future. Of course, you can't say this if it isn't true. If your husband isn't making a meaningful effort to address his controlling behavior, then that's a whole other problem.
posted by Mavri at 2:05 PM on July 4, 2016 [22 favorites]
If your husband is truly making progress on his issues (which is not at all clear if he's offended by being offered leftovers), then maybe you could tell your mother, "look, I know this seems unreasonable, but a visit with the baby is off the table for six months. Husband is working on his issues around this with a therapist, and bringing it up is hindering his progress. You and I can revisit it in six months." Acknowledge the problem, acknowledge that it's not reasonable, and give her some hope for the future. Of course, you can't say this if it isn't true. If your husband isn't making a meaningful effort to address his controlling behavior, then that's a whole other problem.
posted by Mavri at 2:05 PM on July 4, 2016 [22 favorites]
"look, I know this seems unreasonable, but a visit with the baby is off the table for six months. Husband is working on his issues around this with a therapist, and bringing it up is hindering his progress. You and I can revisit it in six months."
No mother who was compus mentis and loved her kid would respond to this with anything but more worry.
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:09 PM on July 4, 2016 [28 favorites]
No mother who was compus mentis and loved her kid would respond to this with anything but more worry.
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:09 PM on July 4, 2016 [28 favorites]
I am as guarded about the invasive mom as anyone could be, and this is striking me as utter nonsense. Your husband seems to be gaslighting you into believing you are the one who owes him support and cushioning from the difficulties of life. Like leftovers. The horror.
I appreciate that you explained a little of his No Florida reasoning, but it still seems super illogical with the level of detail you've given. Leaving me, with others, worried for you and your baby.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 2:26 PM on July 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
I appreciate that you explained a little of his No Florida reasoning, but it still seems super illogical with the level of detail you've given. Leaving me, with others, worried for you and your baby.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 2:26 PM on July 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
No mother who was compus mentis and loved her kid would respond to this with anything but more worry.
A mother who is relieved to have her son-in-law's obvious issues acknowledged and know they're being addressed isn't non compos mentis.
posted by Mavri at 2:29 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
A mother who is relieved to have her son-in-law's obvious issues acknowledged and know they're being addressed isn't non compos mentis.
posted by Mavri at 2:29 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have a m-i-l who is pushy sometimes and I would never DREAM of forbidding my wife from going to visit her. I understand you don't want to get into details of your hubby's ptsd, but I have a very difficult time understanding what could be triggering for him for you and your child to visit Grandma. Something is hinky.
He's in counseling? Insist on joint sessions with him, because with the info and POV we have from you here now, hubby AND you sound like you both need professional support (of different types) to keep your relationship on a healthy track.
posted by infinitewindow at 2:30 PM on July 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
He's in counseling? Insist on joint sessions with him, because with the info and POV we have from you here now, hubby AND you sound like you both need professional support (of different types) to keep your relationship on a healthy track.
posted by infinitewindow at 2:30 PM on July 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
If she offers a cookie, say "sure," and then set the cookie down on a napkin for the duration of the visit. She won't offer you another one. It's kind of the same principle most people use when they're at a party and don't want to drink too much -- having a drink in hand will stop people from asking "can I get you anything?" Because ... a hostess asking if she can get you food/drinks, etc. is just the polite and courteous thing to do!
Also, is there any room for compromise? It is difficult for me to understand why your husband has prohibited you from visiting your own mother. If that's the case, however, since Grandma is willing to pay travel expenses, could you pick another place to meet? Maybe find a nice hotel the next town over with a restaurant and a pool where her friends can come and meet you and the baby?
If you were somehow able to convince your husband to come, you could even reserve a room for your family, and a separate room for your mother, so your husband can have a retreat.
posted by Ostara at 2:42 PM on July 4, 2016 [8 favorites]
Also, is there any room for compromise? It is difficult for me to understand why your husband has prohibited you from visiting your own mother. If that's the case, however, since Grandma is willing to pay travel expenses, could you pick another place to meet? Maybe find a nice hotel the next town over with a restaurant and a pool where her friends can come and meet you and the baby?
If you were somehow able to convince your husband to come, you could even reserve a room for your family, and a separate room for your mother, so your husband can have a retreat.
posted by Ostara at 2:42 PM on July 4, 2016 [8 favorites]
You asked: I do think there is a potential argument here for 'she simply cannot take no for an answer' and that is the part I want to address.
If you have not already had this conversation with your husband, you may want to ask whether he actually wants you to run interference for him. It seems you are stuck uncomfortably in the middle of two strong, opposing personalities and think there must be a way that you can mediate a peace. That may not be possible. A high-risk strategy may be to step out of that role and let the two of them hash out (or not hash out) their differences. You may find that she cannot change her way of interacting with you (after all, you are her daughter) but she can change her way of interacting with a comparative stranger, your husband.
Consider also delaying doing anything. Right now, there's a first child on the way and that may be heightening the tensions as both your MIL and your husband may view the other as a threat to their relationship with the new baby.
A personal note. I have a boundary-pushing MIL, who in many respects is a wonderful person. Fifteen years ago, we needed to have several conflicts, in order for her to understand what was acceptable and unacceptable to me. That conflict also helped me resolve where I was able to compromise myself. I'm sure that in the midst of the conflict, some uncharitable outsiders would have thought I was acting like a big baby. From the inside, it felt like I was sticking up for myself and for the closeness of my future relationship with my children.
Congratulations, mom to be!
posted by ferdydurke at 2:54 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you have not already had this conversation with your husband, you may want to ask whether he actually wants you to run interference for him. It seems you are stuck uncomfortably in the middle of two strong, opposing personalities and think there must be a way that you can mediate a peace. That may not be possible. A high-risk strategy may be to step out of that role and let the two of them hash out (or not hash out) their differences. You may find that she cannot change her way of interacting with you (after all, you are her daughter) but she can change her way of interacting with a comparative stranger, your husband.
Consider also delaying doing anything. Right now, there's a first child on the way and that may be heightening the tensions as both your MIL and your husband may view the other as a threat to their relationship with the new baby.
A personal note. I have a boundary-pushing MIL, who in many respects is a wonderful person. Fifteen years ago, we needed to have several conflicts, in order for her to understand what was acceptable and unacceptable to me. That conflict also helped me resolve where I was able to compromise myself. I'm sure that in the midst of the conflict, some uncharitable outsiders would have thought I was acting like a big baby. From the inside, it felt like I was sticking up for myself and for the closeness of my future relationship with my children.
Congratulations, mom to be!
posted by ferdydurke at 2:54 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
(Trigger warning.)
I have PTSD, and a mother in Florida who bugs me to bring my kids down quite often and I doubt I ever will due to some of the reasons for the PTSD as well as her continued issues. She also is a boundary pusher in that she inherited a chair from my (proven, confessed) rapist over which I was raped and when I re-informed her of this (known) fact she still kept it in her living room for three years, during which time I stuck to a boundary of never entering her house. After she finally got rid of it, I re-entered her home to discover a while later that she had kept the matching ottoman. Without the chair. It is 70s orange and her home is decorated in 80s sky blue and dusty rose. That is control. Leftovers...not so much.
Anyways, all this is set up to say I am really, really worried about your safety. Your husband sounds so irrational and controlling and that seems focused on mother figures and you are about to be one. This is really, really not okay.
Having PTSD sucks. It can result in a lot of black and white thinking and weird triggers. It is ok for your husband to talk to your mother about this gently and ask for her help in them.
It is not okay for him to treat her like Enemy No. 1 or ask you to stay away from any of her homes if. It is super duper not okay for him to make you feel like you have to fix this or else your marriage will suck.
My husband is not a fan of the way my mother continues to treat me, and sometimes it triggers me, and he still lets me make my decisions because he knows I have that right as an autonomous adult. If I want to take a stand or argue, he backs me, and if he feels my parents are doing or asking for something unsafe, he speaks up. But he tries to make the relationship as healthy as possible and be calm because he supports me.
Please seek support and help and talk to a professional about this.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:01 PM on July 4, 2016 [27 favorites]
I have PTSD, and a mother in Florida who bugs me to bring my kids down quite often and I doubt I ever will due to some of the reasons for the PTSD as well as her continued issues. She also is a boundary pusher in that she inherited a chair from my (proven, confessed) rapist over which I was raped and when I re-informed her of this (known) fact she still kept it in her living room for three years, during which time I stuck to a boundary of never entering her house. After she finally got rid of it, I re-entered her home to discover a while later that she had kept the matching ottoman. Without the chair. It is 70s orange and her home is decorated in 80s sky blue and dusty rose. That is control. Leftovers...not so much.
Anyways, all this is set up to say I am really, really worried about your safety. Your husband sounds so irrational and controlling and that seems focused on mother figures and you are about to be one. This is really, really not okay.
Having PTSD sucks. It can result in a lot of black and white thinking and weird triggers. It is ok for your husband to talk to your mother about this gently and ask for her help in them.
It is not okay for him to treat her like Enemy No. 1 or ask you to stay away from any of her homes if. It is super duper not okay for him to make you feel like you have to fix this or else your marriage will suck.
My husband is not a fan of the way my mother continues to treat me, and sometimes it triggers me, and he still lets me make my decisions because he knows I have that right as an autonomous adult. If I want to take a stand or argue, he backs me, and if he feels my parents are doing or asking for something unsafe, he speaks up. But he tries to make the relationship as healthy as possible and be calm because he supports me.
Please seek support and help and talk to a professional about this.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:01 PM on July 4, 2016 [27 favorites]
Best answer: I come from a family where there are many people with strong personalities and a general lack of self awareness. For "outsiders" it's either a total turnoff and they want nothing to do with my extended family, or they resist and resist for years until eventually coming to terms with the people in the family who have strong personalities. In the latter case the people with the strong personalities meet halfway.
Ideally your mom would change her behavior, and your husband would change his. Doesn't look like that is going to happen.
I know personally that with my extended family (parents, sisters and their spouses) I generally dread annual get-togethers at Christmas, or family trips to a resort. It's awful.
Now, there are probably things I can do to change my behavior, but from my point of view I'm trying the best I can. Maybe your husband is the same way. Maybe he's just unaccustomed to deferring to others (I think most people, male or female, get to be like this after a certain age; for me it was the age of 40).
In summary, I think your best bet is to play the long game. Back off for a bit, go to Florida yourself if need be, and see what happens over the next few years.
I'll say it again: coming from a family of strong personalities, I have noticed that people who come from families with a different communication style are turned off.
So it may take time for him to come around.
Of course you can put the hammer down and make this *your* hill to die own, too. Is it worth it? Husbands are not always perfect, but can change and evolve.
posted by My Dad at 3:10 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ideally your mom would change her behavior, and your husband would change his. Doesn't look like that is going to happen.
I know personally that with my extended family (parents, sisters and their spouses) I generally dread annual get-togethers at Christmas, or family trips to a resort. It's awful.
Now, there are probably things I can do to change my behavior, but from my point of view I'm trying the best I can. Maybe your husband is the same way. Maybe he's just unaccustomed to deferring to others (I think most people, male or female, get to be like this after a certain age; for me it was the age of 40).
In summary, I think your best bet is to play the long game. Back off for a bit, go to Florida yourself if need be, and see what happens over the next few years.
I'll say it again: coming from a family of strong personalities, I have noticed that people who come from families with a different communication style are turned off.
So it may take time for him to come around.
Of course you can put the hammer down and make this *your* hill to die own, too. Is it worth it? Husbands are not always perfect, but can change and evolve.
posted by My Dad at 3:10 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Take a different approach for getting your mom to change her behavior towards your husband... Ask her to do this for you as a big favour, you really need her help with this. What you've been doing so far is basically punishing her for doing what she normally does, which does not make any logical sense to her, so she doesn't change. Asking her to help you is a different thing entirely, she will do this because it makes her feel needed (hence, incentive).
She also needs to know doing this "favour" means a possible benefit for her, that doing this for you means you can slowly work on husband's issues and then with time he will get better about it. But you need this from her first, need her to take the first steps before he will ease up.
Do this in a formal talk with her when husband's not around, and when she's not excited by a visit or otherwise distracted, a totally neutral time. You need to catch her when she's able to focus.
posted by lizbunny at 3:13 PM on July 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
She also needs to know doing this "favour" means a possible benefit for her, that doing this for you means you can slowly work on husband's issues and then with time he will get better about it. But you need this from her first, need her to take the first steps before he will ease up.
Do this in a formal talk with her when husband's not around, and when she's not excited by a visit or otherwise distracted, a totally neutral time. You need to catch her when she's able to focus.
posted by lizbunny at 3:13 PM on July 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
I am actually sympathetic to the food thing.
My mother can be genuinely harassing and crazy making about food. If you do not ask for seconds, you are insulting her cooking. If you do ask, well, it is no wonder you are so fat. Etc. Ad nauseum. And, yes, she is a well meaning little old lady with a heart of gold who just wants to take care of everyone.
This didn't really get to me so much. I knew she was just cracked from growing up in a war zone. But this kind of thing can really push some people over the edge and make them go postal.
One of the problems with having food related issues is you cannot stop eating. Almost any other problem, you can swear off permanently or take a break for six months and revisit the issue later. Not so with food related baggage.
So, alcoholics or drug addicts can just quit and avoid people and places that are triggering. Or people with sexual issues can take a sabbatical from sex. But food cannot be avoided like that. Not eating anything at all kills people in well under six months.
So, I think it is totally reasonable to take a harder line about "Mom, seriously, quit with the food pushiness already." Not so much with the position that you cannot visit your mom on your own, without hubby, on mom's dime.
posted by Michele in California at 3:37 PM on July 4, 2016
My mother can be genuinely harassing and crazy making about food. If you do not ask for seconds, you are insulting her cooking. If you do ask, well, it is no wonder you are so fat. Etc. Ad nauseum. And, yes, she is a well meaning little old lady with a heart of gold who just wants to take care of everyone.
This didn't really get to me so much. I knew she was just cracked from growing up in a war zone. But this kind of thing can really push some people over the edge and make them go postal.
One of the problems with having food related issues is you cannot stop eating. Almost any other problem, you can swear off permanently or take a break for six months and revisit the issue later. Not so with food related baggage.
So, alcoholics or drug addicts can just quit and avoid people and places that are triggering. Or people with sexual issues can take a sabbatical from sex. But food cannot be avoided like that. Not eating anything at all kills people in well under six months.
So, I think it is totally reasonable to take a harder line about "Mom, seriously, quit with the food pushiness already." Not so much with the position that you cannot visit your mom on your own, without hubby, on mom's dime.
posted by Michele in California at 3:37 PM on July 4, 2016
I feel like I need to outline the red flags here:
He thinks she needs to 'learn' how to not 'disrespect' him, and that we need to implement some sort of consequence for her if she doesn't, so that she will mend her ways.
- punishment mentality
He does not enjoy leftovers as a general rule, but more than that, he views this behaviour as an attempt to exert control over him and his household.
- assumes malevolent intent over normal everyday interactions
And yet, every time it has come up, it has led to an epic fight between husband and I later.
- why??!! You have both apparently agreed you are not going. He doesn't need to fight with you about it. It sounds like he is scapegoating you for your mother's behaviour.
He has made a lot of progress on the family issues. This is his one hill to die on. It is not negotiable at all.
- sometimes people have hills to die on, but when I read they have made progress but they have this one hill...and they are having "epic fights" about it rather than taking responsibility for their own irrationality, it worries me.
She is going to jeopardize it all if she doesn't learn to hang back a little and stop pushing.
- progress that rests on everyone else behaving Just Right and not offering leftovers is not actually progress
Yes, he has to understand that the child's relationship with her is not about him, and I have made it clear to him that he can't try to 'punish' her by withholding the grandchild.
- and yet, isn't he doing that? or at least he is putting your marriage on the line over this:
I am sorry it has to be that way, but I am not risking my marriage over one vacation.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:54 PM on July 4, 2016 [58 favorites]
He thinks she needs to 'learn' how to not 'disrespect' him, and that we need to implement some sort of consequence for her if she doesn't, so that she will mend her ways.
- punishment mentality
He does not enjoy leftovers as a general rule, but more than that, he views this behaviour as an attempt to exert control over him and his household.
- assumes malevolent intent over normal everyday interactions
And yet, every time it has come up, it has led to an epic fight between husband and I later.
- why??!! You have both apparently agreed you are not going. He doesn't need to fight with you about it. It sounds like he is scapegoating you for your mother's behaviour.
He has made a lot of progress on the family issues. This is his one hill to die on. It is not negotiable at all.
- sometimes people have hills to die on, but when I read they have made progress but they have this one hill...and they are having "epic fights" about it rather than taking responsibility for their own irrationality, it worries me.
She is going to jeopardize it all if she doesn't learn to hang back a little and stop pushing.
- progress that rests on everyone else behaving Just Right and not offering leftovers is not actually progress
Yes, he has to understand that the child's relationship with her is not about him, and I have made it clear to him that he can't try to 'punish' her by withholding the grandchild.
- and yet, isn't he doing that? or at least he is putting your marriage on the line over this:
I am sorry it has to be that way, but I am not risking my marriage over one vacation.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:54 PM on July 4, 2016 [58 favorites]
as a stopgap, make sure you send your mom some nice pictures of you pregnant that she can flash around to her friends down there, and lots of baby pics, so she can show you off without you actually having to go there.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 5:00 PM on July 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 5:00 PM on July 4, 2016 [7 favorites]
Your husband loses his shit because your Mom repeatedly asks you to visit her in Florida. Because she is persistent in offering food. How is your husband going to deal with a 2 year old who persistently asks for juice, cracker, a puppy, that toy, a blanket, Carry Me, Put me down, etc.? I spend a couple a week with my unusually cheerful and chill grandson, and there are still times when I want to holler because he has dropped the juice cup 5 times, I've picked it up 5 times, and, yup, there it goes again. Or, what if, heaven forbid, you have an infant with colic, whoo screams 3 hours straight? If his PTSD makes him that sensitive, he absolutely needs to be in treatment, especially with a baby around.
I'm glad you're loyal to your husband. I recommend ignoring behavior you don't want to experience (the technique is called extinguishing) and just saying to Mom The visit to Florida just won't be possible just now. Why? It just won't be possible.and then change the subject. You can't control other people's behavior much, if at all.
posted by theora55 at 5:08 PM on July 4, 2016 [37 favorites]
I'm glad you're loyal to your husband. I recommend ignoring behavior you don't want to experience (the technique is called extinguishing) and just saying to Mom The visit to Florida just won't be possible just now. Why? It just won't be possible.and then change the subject. You can't control other people's behavior much, if at all.
posted by theora55 at 5:08 PM on July 4, 2016 [37 favorites]
Your husband sounds EXTREMELY controlling and manipulative. It makes absolutely no sense why you can't go to Florida to visit your mother without him. He should have no say whatsoever in how you choose to spend your own vacation. It's your life, not his.
Asking someone multiple times if they want food or leftovers is completely normal polite behavior. Almost everyone I know does this when they're hosting. I can't fathom why this, or your mother wanting to see her own family(!!!), would result in an "epic fight" between you and your husband. That's utterly insane. And the fact that he is framing some
innocuous, normal, polite food questions as a power struggle is bizarre and deeply concerning.
I don't understand why your husband is making this into YOUR problem, when it's his. You should not have to deal with this for him. Marriages are supposed to be equitable partnerships, NOT petty power struggles won by whomever throws the biggest temper tantrum.
posted by a strong female character at 5:10 PM on July 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
Asking someone multiple times if they want food or leftovers is completely normal polite behavior. Almost everyone I know does this when they're hosting. I can't fathom why this, or your mother wanting to see her own family(!!!), would result in an "epic fight" between you and your husband. That's utterly insane. And the fact that he is framing some
innocuous, normal, polite food questions as a power struggle is bizarre and deeply concerning.
I don't understand why your husband is making this into YOUR problem, when it's his. You should not have to deal with this for him. Marriages are supposed to be equitable partnerships, NOT petty power struggles won by whomever throws the biggest temper tantrum.
posted by a strong female character at 5:10 PM on July 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
My father couldn't stand my mother's parents for similar reasons re: food offerings and viewing them as a power play. My mother's parents were absolutely kind, wonderful people. My dad's issues came entirely from his own issues with his mother, because she would nitpick him about food endlessly as an actual power play. My dad's mom was a lousy mother. My mother dealt with my dad by not making him spend much time with her parents; I visited my grandparents with my mother frequently. The times that my dad had dinner with them it was fine; they annoyed him, but he dealt with it like an adult because he knew it wouldn't last long. Whenever he would complain afterwards about them my mom just rolled her eyes, told him to get over his mommy issues, to decline the goddamn second helpings, and to move on. He would pout a little but he would never in a million years have dreamed of "punishing" my grandparents for this behavior. This is how someone "reasonably" overreacts to this situation.
Flash forward. I also find this food-offering behavior mildly annoying, although not nearly to the degree as my dad. My husband's grandmother does this every. single. time. we visit. Our response is to politely decline the endless watermelon offerings and then laugh about it in the car on the way home because it is so over-the-top ridiculous. This is how a normal/average person would respond to this situation.
Your husband's response is not acceptable. Whether or how you choose to accommodate his utterly unreasonable demands is up to you, but don't let your child's relationship with his or her grandmother - or your relationship with your mother - suffer because of your husband's issues. She isn't going to be around forever, and I can't imagine a worse regret than allowing my husband to destroy my relationship with my mom because of something as stupid as being an annoying hostess.
posted by gatorae at 5:51 PM on July 4, 2016 [22 favorites]
Flash forward. I also find this food-offering behavior mildly annoying, although not nearly to the degree as my dad. My husband's grandmother does this every. single. time. we visit. Our response is to politely decline the endless watermelon offerings and then laugh about it in the car on the way home because it is so over-the-top ridiculous. This is how a normal/average person would respond to this situation.
Your husband's response is not acceptable. Whether or how you choose to accommodate his utterly unreasonable demands is up to you, but don't let your child's relationship with his or her grandmother - or your relationship with your mother - suffer because of your husband's issues. She isn't going to be around forever, and I can't imagine a worse regret than allowing my husband to destroy my relationship with my mom because of something as stupid as being an annoying hostess.
posted by gatorae at 5:51 PM on July 4, 2016 [22 favorites]
I HIGHLY recommend you, and your husband go immediately to Al-Anon. And DON'T GO TOGETHER. Go to separate meetings in the beginning, then you can share mtgs later on.
It's for family/friends of alcoholics, but basically, "people who do crazy shit." You don't need to have actual drinking alcoholics to qualify on going, but the program is a godsend to go fight against dysfunction.
http://www.al-anon.org
Don't think I saw it above, but he obviously needs to work on his resentments against his Mother, then his control issues on you + the rest of your family.
You may need Al-Anon to stop your codependency on him and/or his reaction. While I sympathize for your situation and you want to make things better, the relationship between them is exactly that -- between them.
There is nothing you can do that can change it, cure it, nor did you cause or create it. That's Al-Anon for you.
I've been in Al-Anon for 5 years and it has saved me from my Narcissistic parents and many other crazies. Doesn't mean I'm forever recovered against drama and insane people in my life, but the tools are tremendous, it helps my life stay better. If I can do it, so can you.
posted by sam3cat at 6:02 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's for family/friends of alcoholics, but basically, "people who do crazy shit." You don't need to have actual drinking alcoholics to qualify on going, but the program is a godsend to go fight against dysfunction.
http://www.al-anon.org
Don't think I saw it above, but he obviously needs to work on his resentments against his Mother, then his control issues on you + the rest of your family.
You may need Al-Anon to stop your codependency on him and/or his reaction. While I sympathize for your situation and you want to make things better, the relationship between them is exactly that -- between them.
There is nothing you can do that can change it, cure it, nor did you cause or create it. That's Al-Anon for you.
I've been in Al-Anon for 5 years and it has saved me from my Narcissistic parents and many other crazies. Doesn't mean I'm forever recovered against drama and insane people in my life, but the tools are tremendous, it helps my life stay better. If I can do it, so can you.
posted by sam3cat at 6:02 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Well, since we're trying to understand your mom, here: if you were my daughter, I would NOT stop bringing up the possibility of you coming to visit me, without your husband, because I would be very worried that you were married to a strange, controlling, angry, easily-triggered man; and that he has you kind of confused and scared and gaslighted and intimidated. I wouldn't say that was the reason, but that would be one reason. I would be very concerned, and I would continue to try to get you some time out from under his weird domination.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:13 PM on July 4, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:13 PM on July 4, 2016 [33 favorites]
Best answer: Against the grain here:
I have a similar situation. I will say that at first my MIL was easy to shrug off, but over time, with repeated incidents of unwanted advice, repeated questioning, etc, my patience was worn thin. I don't know if things started out OK and went worse over time, but that is the case in my situation. It is very easy nowadays for me to get angry at my MIL. It is something I am actively working on, but even so, that work doesn't involve brushing off when she is out of line and letting her treat me poorly. My happiness and values should be at least as important in our lives as hers. This is NOT how all mothers or older women behave.
Everyone is just how they are. Your husband doesn't like people pushing on him, and your mom likes to push. Not a recipe for awesomeness. In our house, this is solved mostly by my husband not acknowledging repeats of previously answered questions (a technique he had perfected before I met him), and him being the primary point of contact for his mother. If she ever oversteps with our children, we will deal with it at the time. On my side, I put effort into not taking my frustrations out on my husband and trusting my him to put my interests ahead of his mother's (something he does with consistency or the problem would be marital one.).
She lives near you guys for half a year- she gets to see her child and grandchild. I can see room for debate if she was unable to travel and lived far away, but she has access, he's uncomfortable visiting her, I do not see any reason he should be OK with his kid traveling there without him. Most people aren't too keen on spending large chunks of time early on away from their babies- he doesn't need to be OK with it so she can show the kid off like some kind of prize.
posted by pearshaped at 6:50 PM on July 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
I have a similar situation. I will say that at first my MIL was easy to shrug off, but over time, with repeated incidents of unwanted advice, repeated questioning, etc, my patience was worn thin. I don't know if things started out OK and went worse over time, but that is the case in my situation. It is very easy nowadays for me to get angry at my MIL. It is something I am actively working on, but even so, that work doesn't involve brushing off when she is out of line and letting her treat me poorly. My happiness and values should be at least as important in our lives as hers. This is NOT how all mothers or older women behave.
Everyone is just how they are. Your husband doesn't like people pushing on him, and your mom likes to push. Not a recipe for awesomeness. In our house, this is solved mostly by my husband not acknowledging repeats of previously answered questions (a technique he had perfected before I met him), and him being the primary point of contact for his mother. If she ever oversteps with our children, we will deal with it at the time. On my side, I put effort into not taking my frustrations out on my husband and trusting my him to put my interests ahead of his mother's (something he does with consistency or the problem would be marital one.).
She lives near you guys for half a year- she gets to see her child and grandchild. I can see room for debate if she was unable to travel and lived far away, but she has access, he's uncomfortable visiting her, I do not see any reason he should be OK with his kid traveling there without him. Most people aren't too keen on spending large chunks of time early on away from their babies- he doesn't need to be OK with it so she can show the kid off like some kind of prize.
posted by pearshaped at 6:50 PM on July 4, 2016 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you, pearshaped, and others who responded. I'm sorry I asked the question. I feel like a lot of people were way off the mark in how they interpreted things and I'm not sure it's worth defending it further but my husband is not a psycho, is not trying to dominate me and I don't need an abuse hotline. I recognize that based on some of his past baggage, some of his responses are off the norm, and that's something we've been working on with help from a therapist. But I also simultaneously recognize that sometimes, my mother does have trouble recognizing boundaries and does over-push with her behaviour. My husband being at times wrong in how he deals with it does not cancel out the wrongness of HER behaviour and make it suddenly right. I guess I was hoping that more of the responses would be about dealing with strategies for my mother and not about how terrible my husband is.
I have spoken with him further about things now that he's cooled off a little. He is not opposed to the baby spending time with my mother here, nor is he opposed to going elsewhere in Florida and meeting up with her. He just is opposed to going to her town and staying there, but as the point of the visit to my mother would be to show the baby off to her friends, she has not accepted the compromise and so keeps asking. That is the behaviour I'd like to mitigate. And I don't think I being a bad daughter by asking her to respect a boundary once in awhile.
My child and I are not in danger. My husband is not a bad person. And my mother gets plenty of time with her family. But, lesson learned re. over-sharing on the Internet, I guess. I'm going to to bow out of metafilter for awhile.
posted by JoannaC at 7:04 PM on July 4, 2016 [8 favorites]
I have spoken with him further about things now that he's cooled off a little. He is not opposed to the baby spending time with my mother here, nor is he opposed to going elsewhere in Florida and meeting up with her. He just is opposed to going to her town and staying there, but as the point of the visit to my mother would be to show the baby off to her friends, she has not accepted the compromise and so keeps asking. That is the behaviour I'd like to mitigate. And I don't think I being a bad daughter by asking her to respect a boundary once in awhile.
My child and I are not in danger. My husband is not a bad person. And my mother gets plenty of time with her family. But, lesson learned re. over-sharing on the Internet, I guess. I'm going to to bow out of metafilter for awhile.
posted by JoannaC at 7:04 PM on July 4, 2016 [8 favorites]
Respectfully, what you're stating here that you wanted from us seems very different than the question you asked. The communication issue probably isn't over-sharing. The low detail and threatened sounding comment about risking your marriage over one vacation were what led me and others to be concerned for you.
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 7:51 PM on July 4, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by The Noble Goofy Elk at 7:51 PM on July 4, 2016 [22 favorites]
You come across as a bit of a worrier and/or people-pleaser and/or lacking in preemptive assertiveness (no offense meant!) and your husband sounds like someone who places the responsibility on others to nudge him into appropriate boundary-setting because he either can't or won't draw that line himself. Those things are a tricky combination. I doubt your husband's willfully manipulative, but he's probably used to you taking on the emotional work of talking him out of being difficult. Maybe don't do that anymore? It's not your job to rearrange everyone else's behaviour to accommodate his inflexibility.
posted by blerghamot at 8:03 PM on July 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by blerghamot at 8:03 PM on July 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
I am a domestic violence survivor. I think that sometimes when you come from a family that is dysfunctional, it makes you more willing to tolerate stuff you shouldn't tolerate. You say your husband is working on stuff, and that's great! That's huge. But in the meantime, he is treating you badly by doing this. He may not mean to. He may be doing it because of trauma. But he is.
I'm also a military veteran. Most of my friends have PTSD, and I see how it plays out in their lives. I am deeply sympathetic to them. They are good men. But sometimes they are hard to be married to. And you're not betraying your husband by admitting that.
My suspicion, based on reading your question and responses, is that whatever his PTSD incident was, it made him feel like less of a man - less of a strong protector and provider. I would guess that it is very important to him to be the paterfamilias of your house - to be the one who provides for and protects you and your future child. I would guess this is why the offers of food bother him - because they tell him that he can't feed his own wife, that he's a failure as a man.
Likewise, I would guess that this offer of a visit is just getting worse for him. The tickets are free, suggesting he can't pay for his wife to visit her mother. You are welcome to go alone - where he both can't protect you, and where it would be an admission that he is the one with the problem.
I suspect that he does not want you to tell your mother the full details of why he can't come - particularly around the complexities of his mental health. That's totally understandable, but it makes it incredibly difficult for your mother to understand and back off - because you can't say "when he thinks about this, he becomes difficult to live with and threatens our marriage, but I swear he's a good man and I want to stay married to him."
This is a tough situation. But I think you work through it with hope. Tell your mother it won't be possible this year. Hold a boundary firm. If she brings it up again, ignore her or say "Oh mom, you know we already talked about that."
Simultaneously, ask for some compromise markers from your husband. Will he show you actual progress to show you hope? So that you know eventually this will be resolved? This is his hill to die on - will he show you work off that hill?
posted by corb at 9:03 PM on July 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
I'm also a military veteran. Most of my friends have PTSD, and I see how it plays out in their lives. I am deeply sympathetic to them. They are good men. But sometimes they are hard to be married to. And you're not betraying your husband by admitting that.
My suspicion, based on reading your question and responses, is that whatever his PTSD incident was, it made him feel like less of a man - less of a strong protector and provider. I would guess that it is very important to him to be the paterfamilias of your house - to be the one who provides for and protects you and your future child. I would guess this is why the offers of food bother him - because they tell him that he can't feed his own wife, that he's a failure as a man.
Likewise, I would guess that this offer of a visit is just getting worse for him. The tickets are free, suggesting he can't pay for his wife to visit her mother. You are welcome to go alone - where he both can't protect you, and where it would be an admission that he is the one with the problem.
I suspect that he does not want you to tell your mother the full details of why he can't come - particularly around the complexities of his mental health. That's totally understandable, but it makes it incredibly difficult for your mother to understand and back off - because you can't say "when he thinks about this, he becomes difficult to live with and threatens our marriage, but I swear he's a good man and I want to stay married to him."
This is a tough situation. But I think you work through it with hope. Tell your mother it won't be possible this year. Hold a boundary firm. If she brings it up again, ignore her or say "Oh mom, you know we already talked about that."
Simultaneously, ask for some compromise markers from your husband. Will he show you actual progress to show you hope? So that you know eventually this will be resolved? This is his hill to die on - will he show you work off that hill?
posted by corb at 9:03 PM on July 4, 2016 [19 favorites]
I have no idea on your husband's stuff, so I'm not judging there. I can say from my experience with pushy mom-ing that I have literally say, screamed in my mom's face at times to STOP ASKING ME THAT AGAIN AND AGAIN (say, asking me if I want a breakfast when I feel sick to my stomach most mornings and the last thing I want is food and you'd think after a few decades she'd notice, or asking me if I want my food reheated), and guess how well that worked? It didn't. I acted like a freaking psycho, which went over...poorly... and she still asks me those things every time until I cave in and say yes. It's a mom thing and I'm with you on the fact that you cannot stop her from asking. Likewise, you really can't stop her from asking and asking and asking for the grandchild to go to Florida. That question is never going to go away unless maybe you can just say "My husband's molester is your next door neighbor!" (or whatever the hell the problem is), and maybe not even then if a mom is determined to act like a mom. I don't know if your mom knows whatever the bad thing is (I'd guess your husband refuses to tell), but I think only something super super bad would possibly, maybe a wee bit, dissuade that.
Unfortunately, I think this is just going to be an endless battle. Nothing on this earth can get her to stop asking short of her losing the ability to speak. (Hell, my shrink has said I'd probably have to set off a nuke to stop my mom in Determinator mode because logic and reason ain't gonna win, and me asking doesn't, and me screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO doesn't either. Boundaries only work if someone's willing to stop.) And unfortunately unless you can say exactly why having the baby in her town is so very very bad, your husband looks like a prize jerk keeping grandbaby away from grandmother. This does not sound like a situation where a reasonably satisfying compromise can be had.
Maybe what y'all need to do is just get used to suffering the pain of the constantly repeated question. It's going to happen no matter what and you can't stop it short of stopping all communication with her. Which I don't want to do, so....I put up with it. You can always say no, but you'll have to KEEP saying no, indefinitely, no matter how much it angers him.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:13 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, I think this is just going to be an endless battle. Nothing on this earth can get her to stop asking short of her losing the ability to speak. (Hell, my shrink has said I'd probably have to set off a nuke to stop my mom in Determinator mode because logic and reason ain't gonna win, and me asking doesn't, and me screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO doesn't either. Boundaries only work if someone's willing to stop.) And unfortunately unless you can say exactly why having the baby in her town is so very very bad, your husband looks like a prize jerk keeping grandbaby away from grandmother. This does not sound like a situation where a reasonably satisfying compromise can be had.
Maybe what y'all need to do is just get used to suffering the pain of the constantly repeated question. It's going to happen no matter what and you can't stop it short of stopping all communication with her. Which I don't want to do, so....I put up with it. You can always say no, but you'll have to KEEP saying no, indefinitely, no matter how much it angers him.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:13 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is 2016 and, quite frankly, your husband shouldn't decide whether or not you can travel to Florida.
As for your title, Dealing with a pushy personality type, I think it's your husband who is being pushy. You should tell him to fix his uncompromising ways or you'll divorce him.
posted by Kwadeng at 11:18 PM on July 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
As for your title, Dealing with a pushy personality type, I think it's your husband who is being pushy. You should tell him to fix his uncompromising ways or you'll divorce him.
posted by Kwadeng at 11:18 PM on July 4, 2016 [11 favorites]
I may be completely off-base, but having read quite a bit of DWIL / JustNOMIL and the like, I do wonder what your husband might say his issues are with your mother. The food and the visits are easy symptoms, but is there more going on? Is he feeling usurped and disrespected in subtle ways? Would our answers differ if a woman were asking these questions about her mother-in-law?
OP, is it possible there is more going on here? If not, then, yes, your husband is being unreasonable and controlling.
posted by heigh-hothederryo at 11:42 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
OP, is it possible there is more going on here? If not, then, yes, your husband is being unreasonable and controlling.
posted by heigh-hothederryo at 11:42 PM on July 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
The reason commenters have fixated on your husband is because your question and follow-ups have been all about him. You haven't really given us a lot of detail about your mother. We know she keeps asking things that you've already said no to. A lot of people here have said that that's normal mum behaviour. So, how else does she react? Does she acknowledge the reasons you've explained to her re: no Florida visit? Does she acknowledge that she'll be able to see you and her grandchild in your area? Or is she doing that wilful ignoring/sweet naive thing where she pretends you never had those conversations? Do you have a close enough relationship with her that you could show her this question?
Gently, a lot of people *have* actually offered ways that they have dealt with pushy mothers and mothers in law. However, they are strategies that are depedent on there being some level of tolerance and ability to let things go. You are very unlikely to be able to make your mother change to an extent that will completely remove your husband's issues with her.... But you're not seemingly able to acknowledge that that is NOT a reasonable goal. Noone here is willing to gloss over your husband's unreasonableness and tell you "Well if you tell her she'll never see her grandchild at all if she won't quit with the pushing that'll probably sort her out"! Because that's crazy! But from the things you've written about your husband, that kind of extreme response seems like it would be the only thing that would pacify him. That is why we are worried. There is no reasonable response that we could and have offered that will change your mother's behaviour because your husband's not reasonable!
I would show her this question. If she is a woman with an ounce of maturity it will stop her from asking things. But it will also make her worried for you and probably damage her relationship with your husband. I guess you won't show her the question because it would be "unfair" to your husband. But think about why you feel you have to defend him and hide his issues and make yourself the go between. Think about why you can't say all this you've said here to your mother. Because she would he aghast, right? Like askmefiers are? Are we all wrong? Is your husband that special that he gets a free ride for stuff that is objectively terrible behaviour?
I sincerely hope that we are all misled and the situation isn't as bad as you've made it sound. And I hope your husband's therapy goes really really well. All the best.
posted by mymbleth at 1:20 AM on July 5, 2016 [21 favorites]
Gently, a lot of people *have* actually offered ways that they have dealt with pushy mothers and mothers in law. However, they are strategies that are depedent on there being some level of tolerance and ability to let things go. You are very unlikely to be able to make your mother change to an extent that will completely remove your husband's issues with her.... But you're not seemingly able to acknowledge that that is NOT a reasonable goal. Noone here is willing to gloss over your husband's unreasonableness and tell you "Well if you tell her she'll never see her grandchild at all if she won't quit with the pushing that'll probably sort her out"! Because that's crazy! But from the things you've written about your husband, that kind of extreme response seems like it would be the only thing that would pacify him. That is why we are worried. There is no reasonable response that we could and have offered that will change your mother's behaviour because your husband's not reasonable!
I would show her this question. If she is a woman with an ounce of maturity it will stop her from asking things. But it will also make her worried for you and probably damage her relationship with your husband. I guess you won't show her the question because it would be "unfair" to your husband. But think about why you feel you have to defend him and hide his issues and make yourself the go between. Think about why you can't say all this you've said here to your mother. Because she would he aghast, right? Like askmefiers are? Are we all wrong? Is your husband that special that he gets a free ride for stuff that is objectively terrible behaviour?
I sincerely hope that we are all misled and the situation isn't as bad as you've made it sound. And I hope your husband's therapy goes really really well. All the best.
posted by mymbleth at 1:20 AM on July 5, 2016 [21 favorites]
Having slept on this, I want to add that if people think OP is in a dicey relationship ( and I don't necessarily based on this post) , it's terrible advice to suggest that she just take the baby to her mom anyway... it is not good to establish that either parent can take the child without the others consent.
posted by nakedmolerats at 4:39 AM on July 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by nakedmolerats at 4:39 AM on July 5, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'd agree about advice about mum if your husband were just expressing his frustration. But epic fights and putting your marriage on the line, while you're pregnant, in such an intolerant manner is just...not okay.
I'm sorry that made you feel like you'd over shared and like people think your husband is bad. I don't think he is a bad person.
Sometimes (and I have been the one with PTSD) living with someone experiencing Flight Or Fight Alert Alert all the time can really warp our perceptions. I used to flip out if my husband was 15 minutes late coming home. That answer wasn't for him to never be late and to walk on eggshells over every subway delay. I wasn't a terrible person. But the way I was dealing with things was really toxic and wrong...just flat-out wrong. It was my issue. I could easily get on a high horse about lateness, but it was the intensity and disrespect of my responses that was a much larger thing.
You've said two wrongs don't make a right. Sure. But here in this thread people have given examples of how they manage the same feelings, without turning to their spouse and putting their marriage on the line. I have tons of advice around boundary-setting but I don't see how that can impact on your marriage or stress levels, because it still involves the moment where you have to either state or enforce the boundary, and it sounds like your husband will then have a fight with you about what your mum said.
It's possible that it's just how you've described your fears here. But I really have a hard time imagining that my in-laws, one of whom is incredibly sexist to me, would upset me and I would pick an epic fight with my husband over his dad's behavior. I also took a quick look at your past questions and they don't seem alarmists. You're a woman who seems to be able to address work stress and learn to drive and do all kinds of capable things. I believe you when you say your marriage is on the line.
I still think support for you is the key to untangling this situation. Anyways, I hope you hear the support for you here whether we all got it wrong or not. Take care.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:23 AM on July 5, 2016 [15 favorites]
I'm sorry that made you feel like you'd over shared and like people think your husband is bad. I don't think he is a bad person.
Sometimes (and I have been the one with PTSD) living with someone experiencing Flight Or Fight Alert Alert all the time can really warp our perceptions. I used to flip out if my husband was 15 minutes late coming home. That answer wasn't for him to never be late and to walk on eggshells over every subway delay. I wasn't a terrible person. But the way I was dealing with things was really toxic and wrong...just flat-out wrong. It was my issue. I could easily get on a high horse about lateness, but it was the intensity and disrespect of my responses that was a much larger thing.
You've said two wrongs don't make a right. Sure. But here in this thread people have given examples of how they manage the same feelings, without turning to their spouse and putting their marriage on the line. I have tons of advice around boundary-setting but I don't see how that can impact on your marriage or stress levels, because it still involves the moment where you have to either state or enforce the boundary, and it sounds like your husband will then have a fight with you about what your mum said.
It's possible that it's just how you've described your fears here. But I really have a hard time imagining that my in-laws, one of whom is incredibly sexist to me, would upset me and I would pick an epic fight with my husband over his dad's behavior. I also took a quick look at your past questions and they don't seem alarmists. You're a woman who seems to be able to address work stress and learn to drive and do all kinds of capable things. I believe you when you say your marriage is on the line.
I still think support for you is the key to untangling this situation. Anyways, I hope you hear the support for you here whether we all got it wrong or not. Take care.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:23 AM on July 5, 2016 [15 favorites]
I think that perhaps it is time for your husband to manage his own relationship with your mother, and for you to step back as go between. Part of the difficulty in all of this is that they aren't communicating directly with one another: everything is triangulated through you.
In my own family, there was a similar relationship dynamic between my grandmother and her three sons-in-law. Two of those relationships eventually became quite cordial. One son-in-law found that they could find common ground over a shared love of gardening; the other never found a common interest like that, but made a point of developing his own relationship with her by occasionally taking her out to lunch without the daughter present. The third son-in-law never developed a cordial relationship with my grandmother, I suspect because he never communicated directly with her. Everything was always filtered through his wife.
I think it might be time for you to step away from managing their interactions and let them hash out what kind of relationship they're going to have on their own.
posted by ocherdraco at 7:04 AM on July 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
In my own family, there was a similar relationship dynamic between my grandmother and her three sons-in-law. Two of those relationships eventually became quite cordial. One son-in-law found that they could find common ground over a shared love of gardening; the other never found a common interest like that, but made a point of developing his own relationship with her by occasionally taking her out to lunch without the daughter present. The third son-in-law never developed a cordial relationship with my grandmother, I suspect because he never communicated directly with her. Everything was always filtered through his wife.
I think it might be time for you to step away from managing their interactions and let them hash out what kind of relationship they're going to have on their own.
posted by ocherdraco at 7:04 AM on July 5, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't think anyone intended to say that your husband is a terrible psycho. I think that, based on the information you provided, people became concerned for you because your husband's reactions as described are disproportionate to your mother's behavior.
Just as an anecdotal point — a long while ago I asked a similar question about my husband's behavior, and most of the answers were along the same lines, asserting that my husband was abusive and/or cheating. I thought the answers were ridiculous and I regretted asking the question. About 3 months later I discovered my husband was cheating and that he had been gaslighting and manipulating me.
Please don't necessarily write off these answers as all ridiculous. People here are just concerned for you.
posted by a strong female character at 7:41 AM on July 5, 2016 [32 favorites]
Just as an anecdotal point — a long while ago I asked a similar question about my husband's behavior, and most of the answers were along the same lines, asserting that my husband was abusive and/or cheating. I thought the answers were ridiculous and I regretted asking the question. About 3 months later I discovered my husband was cheating and that he had been gaslighting and manipulating me.
Please don't necessarily write off these answers as all ridiculous. People here are just concerned for you.
posted by a strong female character at 7:41 AM on July 5, 2016 [32 favorites]
Is your mother even hearing you??
You felt like you tried to correct our understanding us and set the record straight with multiple updates, yet we did not "get it." Maybe your mother is in the same bought we are?
I'm serious. Maybe you are failing to communicate something crucial upfront and that's creating confusion. That's my best guess now. Good news is this is fixable with your mom if you are direct enough.
Talk to your mom again. Be direct.
posted by jbenben at 7:54 AM on July 5, 2016 [5 favorites]
You felt like you tried to correct our understanding us and set the record straight with multiple updates, yet we did not "get it." Maybe your mother is in the same bought we are?
I'm serious. Maybe you are failing to communicate something crucial upfront and that's creating confusion. That's my best guess now. Good news is this is fixable with your mom if you are direct enough.
Talk to your mom again. Be direct.
posted by jbenben at 7:54 AM on July 5, 2016 [5 favorites]
This is a bit left field but bear with me. I think you should see a counselor, by yourself, to get help with communication and boundary settings. There may be things you are doing or saying that seem placating to you but feel condescending to your husband, or things you say to your mom that you think are only polite but that encourage her to keep asking and pushing. Or areas where you should be setting a better boundary with your husband but instead are reacting in a defensive way that makes fights worse. Therapy may also help you to draw boundaries with him that will help you protect your own emotional state while he works on his issues.
posted by Lady Li at 11:49 PM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Lady Li at 11:49 PM on July 7, 2016 [1 favorite]
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I'm sorry - I actually did a spit-take here.
Your husband is being a child. He has AH-LHAT more work to do, it sounds like, A LOT.
Your mother is your mother, and she is who she is. When he starts to get riled, tell him, "Aw honey, she's never going to change" and shrug. If he can't cope with that, it is his problem.
He needs to find out how to manage to get along with people he doesn't necessarily like, but who are important to his wife. That's part of life and growing up.
Of COURSE you're going to feel exhausted. Does he have any sense of humor about this? Is there a time where things don't feel so "loaded" where you can both come up with a gameplan for the typical, predictable issues he finds so frustrating?
posted by Dressed to Kill at 12:00 PM on July 4, 2016 [71 favorites]