Comments on: Is eating cheese made from unpasteurised milk dangerous?

Question: Is eating cheese made from unpasteurised milk dangerous?

unSane — Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:19:34 -0800

Is eating cheese made from unpasteurised milk dangerous? If so, to whom?

I just ate a whole load of Stinking Bishop and it was great. But I bought a bunch of other unpasteurised cheese for the family christmas, which includes women who aren't pregnant but may be trying, and someone whose immune system has been compromised. Should I warn them off the unpasteurised stuff?

By: tracicle

tracicle — Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:34:31 -0800

Tell them it's not pasteurised and let them choose whether to eat it or not. Pregnant or maybe-pregnant women are generally aware of what's safe to eat or not eat. I believe the problem is the possibility of listeria.

By: caddis

caddis — Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:43:52 -0800

The risk would seem to be low, but I would still tell people as the choice should be theirs, not yours. Where did you get this cheese? I thought it was illegal Federally to import or sell such cheeses unless you bought it locally and the production and sale stayed within the state, and even then that most states still outlawed it.

By: wsg

wsg — Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:50:23 -0800

In France that's the best kind, right?

By: karmaville

karmaville — Thu, 22 Dec 2005 23:02:20 -0800

As someone with a seriously compromised immune system, I would need to know. It can be a problem, raw milk sickened 17 people with e. coli near Portland recently.

By: aubilenon

aubilenon — Thu, 22 Dec 2005 23:10:27 -0800

I think it probably isn't a big deal:

"[In the US] all cheeses aged less than 60 days [must] be made with pasteurized milk... In Europe, where young raw-milk cheeses are still legal in some countries, most outbreaks [of cheese-related food poisoning] have been caused by pasteurized cheeses. Cheese in general present a relatively low risk of food poisoning. Because any soft cheese contains enough moisture to permit the survival of various human pathogens, bot hpasteurized and unpasteurized versions are probably best avoided by people who may be especially vulnerable to infection... Hard cheeses are inhospitable to disease microbes and very seldom cause food poisoning" (Source)

Incedentally, I very highly recommend the source of that quote. (On Food And Cooking, by Harold McGee)

By: PurplePorpoise

PurplePorpoise — Thu, 22 Dec 2005 23:56:40 -0800

Pregnant or maybe-pregnant

I have a feeling that such sentiments may (very strong may) be what's increasing the number of people who are allergic to foods that doesn't harm the rest of the populace.

A developing immune system figures out what is dangerous or what's not. If there's low/non exposure early, there may be an immunologic hyper-responsive event in early childhood/right-before-adolescence.

There's also the widely accepted (but that doesn't mean it's a proven conclusion) that early exposure to a variety of allergens/microbes is protective against alllergies.

Having really "good" controls is a deterent in exploring these things further - while there are definitely genetic involvement in allergies &c, the actual mechanism that allergies are developed is still under-known.

By: unSane

unSane — Fri, 23 Dec 2005 06:47:21 -0800

Where did you get this cheese? I thought it was illegal Federally to import or sell such cheeses unless you bought it locally and the production and sale stayed within the state, and even then that most states still outlawed it.

Interestingly, US law does not apply in Canada. Probably an oversight, I know, but still, there it is.

It was bought from one of the specialty cheese stores in the excellent Lawrence Market in downtown Toronto.

By: Heminator

Heminator — Fri, 23 Dec 2005 06:54:16 -0800

If you can get your hands on this article from the New Yorker (Library, Nexis) this will explain all you need to know about Raw cheese, health risks etc. From what I recall their aren't that many risks.

Bilger, Burkhard, "Raw Faith", The New Yorker, (August 19 and 26, 2002)

As an aside, Bilger is a TERRIFFIC journalist and his book is uniformly excellent.

By: Heminator

Heminator — Fri, 23 Dec 2005 06:56:25 -0800

... forgive the random capitalizations, spelling and homonyms.

By: caddis

caddis — Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:09:56 -0800

Interestingly, US law does not apply in Canada. Probably an oversight, I know, but still, there it is.

Oh, that is a bit of a bother, but trust me we are working on it. GW didn't get the memo about world domination, it's McDonald's, Coca Cola and Hollywood who are tasked with this job, not the military.

By: i_am_joe's_spleen

i_am_joe's_spleen — Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:47:50 -0800

See here. I would warn them. I personally would like to consciously choose the risk of listeria, thank you.

I have a feeling that such sentiments may (very strong may) be what's increasing the number of people who are allergic to foods that doesn't harm the rest of the populace.

Claptrap. Let me quote you:

" Last year an outbreak of infection with Listeria monocytogenes affected 20 people in eight regions of France, and the source was traced to Brie de Meaux cheese made with raw cows' milk.2 Eleven of the people affected were pregnant women, two of whom suffered spontaneous abortions, two stillbirths, and five premature births. In addition there was a cluster of cases of bloody diarrhoea and the haemolytic uraemic syndrome in four children in 1992-3 in a rural community of Cher, south of Paris, which was linked to consumption of fromage frais made on a single farm from raw cows' and goats' milk."

I rate that above your feelings.

Yeah, maybe the developing baby gets some useful calibration of its immune system, or maybe it dies.

By: TimeFactor

TimeFactor — Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:28:00 -0800

I can and do buy foreign and domestic (US) raw-milk cheeses all the time (or at least when I can afford them), both from specialty shops and supermarkets. If it's illegal it's not being enforced very vigorously. I've no opinion or information about its safety for anyone other than me.

By: rschroed

rschroed — Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:36:27 -0800

But is it aged? raw-milk is ok in the US as long as it's aged over 60 days.

By: Wolfie

Wolfie — Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:48:02 -0800

As a recently pregnant woman with a mother who is a public health nurse working in communicable diseases - listeria kills or damages fetuses. Its not a "it might" kind of thing - its a "it does" kind of thing. Every pregnancy book has on the list of foods to avoid any unpasteurized cheese. It is on the list of things the doctor tells you about at your first appointment. My doctor is even pretty mellow - drink coffee, eat sushi- skip the soft unpasteurized cheese.
The chance that the cheese you bring is contaminated is likely low - but it is still something that should be disclosed.
PurplePorpoise - with all due respect - this isn't about allergies. It's about the toxin from bacteria causing miscarriage. If you want to experiment with your offspring - feel free - but I'd suggest you not encourage others to do the same.

By: TimeFactor

TimeFactor — Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:00:51 -0800

Yes, aged. Nevermind.