Limited internet access solution for teenagers?
December 21, 2005 7:24 AM Subscribe
My 15 year old son is getting a computer for Christmas. Any way to reliably and safely limit his internet access without restricting it so much it makes it useless?
My wife and I are buying our son a Dell desktop with Windows XP for Christmas. I have wireless set up in the house, and would like to allow him some limited internet access for schoolwork. The computer will be in his room, where he does all of his homework now, with the exception of work requiring internet access (which grows larger every year). His only free access is on our family computer where he is in full view while using it.
He is a good kid, honors student, and gives us no trouble. I'd like to keep it that way by limiting the temptation to get sucked into the world of porn or chat rooms or anything else that might become a distraction. The more I think about it, the less I want him to have any internet access in his room.
In the interest of being somewhat open minded about it, are there any slick solutions to limiting his access but allowing him to get his work done? Software that requires I input a list of allowed URLs would be too prohibitive as I could never list all websites he might need for homework.
My wife and I are buying our son a Dell desktop with Windows XP for Christmas. I have wireless set up in the house, and would like to allow him some limited internet access for schoolwork. The computer will be in his room, where he does all of his homework now, with the exception of work requiring internet access (which grows larger every year). His only free access is on our family computer where he is in full view while using it.
He is a good kid, honors student, and gives us no trouble. I'd like to keep it that way by limiting the temptation to get sucked into the world of porn or chat rooms or anything else that might become a distraction. The more I think about it, the less I want him to have any internet access in his room.
In the interest of being somewhat open minded about it, are there any slick solutions to limiting his access but allowing him to get his work done? Software that requires I input a list of allowed URLs would be too prohibitive as I could never list all websites he might need for homework.
There is software that will monitor Internet usage, but I have never heard of any product that doesn't cripple the machine too much. Then there's Instant Messaging. I strongly recommend the computer not be in his room.
I do know of parents who limit Internet access by controlling the router, and allowing access for specified hours only.
posted by theora55 at 7:31 AM on December 21, 2005
I do know of parents who limit Internet access by controlling the router, and allowing access for specified hours only.
posted by theora55 at 7:31 AM on December 21, 2005
I believe new routers come with a parental block installed. I think you pay for updated lists of sites. I can't speak to the effectiveness, however. Also, any limits you place can probably be circumvented with something like google proxy, or similar.
posted by jikel_morten at 7:33 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by jikel_morten at 7:33 AM on December 21, 2005
Nowadays routers do internet content and URL filtering. While I don't use this feature on mine, I noticed it would be sufficent if I needed it.
On preview, I like what By The Grace of God suggests.
posted by sublivious at 7:34 AM on December 21, 2005
On preview, I like what By The Grace of God suggests.
posted by sublivious at 7:34 AM on December 21, 2005
No. Internet access is all or nothing. A determined user can get pron through a Linx browser. Your best bet is to educate him. Explain that you will know what he's been looking at and that, while you won't be watching over his shoulder, you will check his browsing habits on a regular basis. Explain WHY you don't want him looking at certain things and he'll be much more likely to listen. Make it clear that infractions will lead to a loss of access. If you're worried about him deleting history and cached files, there are solutions to that.
Another option may be to use the firmware on your router to limit his internet access to certain times of day. Times when you are home and available to check up on what he's doing. The Linksys I use has the option to limit access by MAC address.
Bottom line is, if you turn access on, technological solutions won't prevent him from viewing things you don't want him to. Education and a clear set of rules are your friend.
posted by cosmicbandito at 7:34 AM on December 21, 2005
Another option may be to use the firmware on your router to limit his internet access to certain times of day. Times when you are home and available to check up on what he's doing. The Linksys I use has the option to limit access by MAC address.
Bottom line is, if you turn access on, technological solutions won't prevent him from viewing things you don't want him to. Education and a clear set of rules are your friend.
posted by cosmicbandito at 7:34 AM on December 21, 2005
I am not a parent, so I claim no expertise. Could you tell him you will be periodically monitoring his internet access via some kind of activity logging software (or packet sniffer)? The idea being that if he knows this software is there, it's no more of an invasion of his privacy than him being in the common room. His knowledge of the potential for an audit would do more to keep him safe than you actually checking every packet. You could explain to him that while you trust him, there are those on the net you don't.
posted by justkevin at 7:35 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by justkevin at 7:35 AM on December 21, 2005
If the kid is an honors student, he can probably disable anything that you try to set up to block his access.
Logging is much better than filtering. Filters are crude, inaccurate, and draconian. They are meant for employers worried about sexual harrassment suits, not teenagers.
Don't be adversarial about this. Sit him down, explain exactly how you plan to monitor his internet access, and tell him that you trust him. You do trust him, don't you?
posted by Saucy Intruder at 7:37 AM on December 21, 2005
Logging is much better than filtering. Filters are crude, inaccurate, and draconian. They are meant for employers worried about sexual harrassment suits, not teenagers.
Don't be adversarial about this. Sit him down, explain exactly how you plan to monitor his internet access, and tell him that you trust him. You do trust him, don't you?
posted by Saucy Intruder at 7:37 AM on December 21, 2005
Basically, either trust him or don't. If you don't, put the PC in a communal area until you do. Educate him and talk to him about the things he might come across if you think that's neccessary. But don't bother trying to block it, as it'll never work, and it's short-sighted.
posted by ascullion at 7:42 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by ascullion at 7:42 AM on December 21, 2005
Response by poster: Yes, I do trust him. Very much so. He really is a good kid all around.
What we all know is that the internet is fraught with offroads into dark areas that anyone can stumble upon innocently enough. And I'm worried that any introduction could be distracting at best and tempt him to further searching at worst. We have worked very hard to limit this in the real world as well as the computer world. In two years though, he will be off to college, and free to do whatever he wants without Dad watching him. I hope he has learned from us, but sometimes it's a crapshoot and everything you worked to develop in your child can unravel spectacularly when they are out on their own.
The few responses here so far are solidifying my initial gut feeling that internet in his room is a bad idea. Plenty of opportunity for him on the family computer for that, or using my laptop when neccessary. His computer can be for canned games and writing work etc...
He won't have access unless I allow it, as I have set up the network to have key access only.
posted by genefinder at 7:51 AM on December 21, 2005
What we all know is that the internet is fraught with offroads into dark areas that anyone can stumble upon innocently enough. And I'm worried that any introduction could be distracting at best and tempt him to further searching at worst. We have worked very hard to limit this in the real world as well as the computer world. In two years though, he will be off to college, and free to do whatever he wants without Dad watching him. I hope he has learned from us, but sometimes it's a crapshoot and everything you worked to develop in your child can unravel spectacularly when they are out on their own.
The few responses here so far are solidifying my initial gut feeling that internet in his room is a bad idea. Plenty of opportunity for him on the family computer for that, or using my laptop when neccessary. His computer can be for canned games and writing work etc...
He won't have access unless I allow it, as I have set up the network to have key access only.
posted by genefinder at 7:51 AM on December 21, 2005
I humbly suggest that he should stumble into the dark areas while living with his parents who can help him make sense of them, rather than in two years when he has new responsibilities and no adult supervision whatsoever.
posted by Jairus at 7:53 AM on December 21, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by Jairus at 7:53 AM on December 21, 2005 [1 favorite]
I agree about the logging. Make sure the router password is strong and something he won't guess.
If he's somewhat smart he'll be able to get around any locks you put on the PC. Live Linux CD, etc. Just this morning I read about using an english to English translation on Google to get around blocked sites.
If he knows he can't do anything without it being logged he might be more careful and he'll just have to go to his friend's house to look at porn.
posted by bondcliff at 7:53 AM on December 21, 2005
If he's somewhat smart he'll be able to get around any locks you put on the PC. Live Linux CD, etc. Just this morning I read about using an english to English translation on Google to get around blocked sites.
If he knows he can't do anything without it being logged he might be more careful and he'll just have to go to his friend's house to look at porn.
posted by bondcliff at 7:53 AM on December 21, 2005
He's a 15-year-old boy. If you're serious about keeping tabs on him, the computer will not be in his room.
In a common room (maybe where you watch television together) with the screen not angled away from everyone = nothing too outrageous most of the time, mainly because he won't have as much opportunity, though who knows what will happen when you're not home.
In his room (behind a locked door) = masturbation to stuff that would give you a heart attack. And that's just the beginning. I will leave the rest to your imagination, but I bet you can't imagine it, not your son, not Mr Honor Roll.
posted by pracowity at 7:54 AM on December 21, 2005
In a common room (maybe where you watch television together) with the screen not angled away from everyone = nothing too outrageous most of the time, mainly because he won't have as much opportunity, though who knows what will happen when you're not home.
In his room (behind a locked door) = masturbation to stuff that would give you a heart attack. And that's just the beginning. I will leave the rest to your imagination, but I bet you can't imagine it, not your son, not Mr Honor Roll.
posted by pracowity at 7:54 AM on December 21, 2005
I think you've got the wrong idea. He needs to be introduced to those things in a safe environment before he goes to college. It will be a much bigger distraction if it comes all at once and he doesn't have a support network in place.
Also: You can't have it both ways. You either trust him to make the right decisions, or you don't. You're saying so far that you trust him, but you're terrified of what he's going to do when you're not there to watch him. To me that's the very definition of distrust.
posted by Hildago at 8:00 AM on December 21, 2005
Also: You can't have it both ways. You either trust him to make the right decisions, or you don't. You're saying so far that you trust him, but you're terrified of what he's going to do when you're not there to watch him. To me that's the very definition of distrust.
posted by Hildago at 8:00 AM on December 21, 2005
You are going to need some internet access on his computer just to update software etc. I have a similar issue and so far a USB WiFi adapter that is normally kept in the kitchen, but that can be taken into his room for school work etc., has been a reasonable solution. Sure it is easy to get around, but we rely in large part on trust. The family computer in the kitchen has unfettered internet access.
posted by caddis at 8:02 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by caddis at 8:02 AM on December 21, 2005
For what it's worth, I say don't do anything. Fifteen is pretty old, at least in my book. You trust your son, so show it. You think he's a smart kid, so let him know that you do by trusting him to make intelligent decisions. If my parents had told me when I was fifteen that they were checking up on my online habits, I would have been mortified, angry; I would have felt betrayed.
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 8:05 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by Uncle Glendinning at 8:05 AM on December 21, 2005
As an adult who was once a 15-year-old with internet access in his room, I have to say that Hildago is absolutely correct.
posted by Jairus at 8:05 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by Jairus at 8:05 AM on December 21, 2005
Jairus and Hildago have nailed it. Trust means, well, trust. Not wanting someone to be alone with the internet means distrust. I'm not saying you're wrong to distrust him with the internet, but it's definitely not "trust".
To answer your question; As others have said, there is very little chance of being able to meaningfully limit his access. If he wants to, he'll find a way around it. If you trust him not to circumvent the blockage why not trust him to not get involved in crime or terrorism or whatever it is you're afraid of. If you don't trust him not to circumvent the blockage then don't put internet access in his room.
Probably he'd just look at some porn like EVERY SINGLE OTHER 15 year old male in history would do.
posted by Justinian at 8:12 AM on December 21, 2005
To answer your question; As others have said, there is very little chance of being able to meaningfully limit his access. If he wants to, he'll find a way around it. If you trust him not to circumvent the blockage why not trust him to not get involved in crime or terrorism or whatever it is you're afraid of. If you don't trust him not to circumvent the blockage then don't put internet access in his room.
Probably he'd just look at some porn like EVERY SINGLE OTHER 15 year old male in history would do.
posted by Justinian at 8:12 AM on December 21, 2005
Genefinder is 100% right. If your son is actually pretty smart, he'll have no trouble getting around any resistance you might try to lay in his path.
That said, it's hard for me to believe your question is entirely serious. The kid is fifteen, for crying out loud! He's past the age where meeting some stranger online poses the danger of him getting molestered, and he's past the age where seeing porno could potentially mess him up in the head.
Teenagers need private space and they need to feel control over their own lives. Be confident in the quality of your parenting and role-modeling, and give him the computer, unimpeded, in his room. Build trust, don't avoid it: this will keep him out of actual trouble (e.g. drug abuse).
If you're interested, there's a great This American Life piece about a dad who, knowing that his son is abusing drugs, starts recording his phone conversations, but ultimately is confronted by the fact that honest communication, respect, and trust are the only way to help a loved one.
posted by rxrfrx at 8:16 AM on December 21, 2005
That said, it's hard for me to believe your question is entirely serious. The kid is fifteen, for crying out loud! He's past the age where meeting some stranger online poses the danger of him getting molestered, and he's past the age where seeing porno could potentially mess him up in the head.
Teenagers need private space and they need to feel control over their own lives. Be confident in the quality of your parenting and role-modeling, and give him the computer, unimpeded, in his room. Build trust, don't avoid it: this will keep him out of actual trouble (e.g. drug abuse).
If you're interested, there's a great This American Life piece about a dad who, knowing that his son is abusing drugs, starts recording his phone conversations, but ultimately is confronted by the fact that honest communication, respect, and trust are the only way to help a loved one.
posted by rxrfrx at 8:16 AM on December 21, 2005
I am a veteran of teenagers (they are not 18, 19 and 21)
One thing you need to know is that computers are a large part of their socialization at that age- IM was a big part of it. I understand your wish to control access to porn and such but if all you want him to do is homework on the computer I'd get him something else for Christmas.
Oh, and I chime in with the great chorus that is saying do NOT, do NOT, do NOT let him have one in his room. If you simply wish to access the computer when he needs it, get your own.
Finally, there is a program out there that will periodically send a list of links he accesses to your email account. Our pastor suggests it for men trying to overcome porn addiction in order to help them be accountable. I don't remember the name of the program but I'm sure someone else will-or if you want email me and I will ask someone on church staff.
posted by konolia at 8:28 AM on December 21, 2005
One thing you need to know is that computers are a large part of their socialization at that age- IM was a big part of it. I understand your wish to control access to porn and such but if all you want him to do is homework on the computer I'd get him something else for Christmas.
Oh, and I chime in with the great chorus that is saying do NOT, do NOT, do NOT let him have one in his room. If you simply wish to access the computer when he needs it, get your own.
Finally, there is a program out there that will periodically send a list of links he accesses to your email account. Our pastor suggests it for men trying to overcome porn addiction in order to help them be accountable. I don't remember the name of the program but I'm sure someone else will-or if you want email me and I will ask someone on church staff.
posted by konolia at 8:28 AM on December 21, 2005
True that. There's an aphorism that a kid who is allowed to have a glass of wine at dinner with his parents is much less likely to grow up to be a drunk or a party animal.
If someone told me they trusted me, and then they micromanaged that to which they have entrusted me, they'd seem kind of empty words to me.
FWIW, between 1992 and 1995, before the days of camwhores and v1g4ra, I ran a BBS from my room. This experience informed my career, developed organizational and leadership skills, inspired self-confidence, and became the focal point of my college admissions essay.
This was all made possible by my parents not realizing that fake photoshops of a naked Cindy Crawford were available for 2400 baud download in grainy GIF format. If they had, there would have been rules, more rebellion, a lack of the independence I needed, and a resort to family-friendly activities that would have turned me into a happy go lucky lacrosse playing drone.
You say you trust him. Now show it.
(of course, IANAP, YMMV.)
posted by Saucy Intruder at 8:29 AM on December 21, 2005
If someone told me they trusted me, and then they micromanaged that to which they have entrusted me, they'd seem kind of empty words to me.
FWIW, between 1992 and 1995, before the days of camwhores and v1g4ra, I ran a BBS from my room. This experience informed my career, developed organizational and leadership skills, inspired self-confidence, and became the focal point of my college admissions essay.
This was all made possible by my parents not realizing that fake photoshops of a naked Cindy Crawford were available for 2400 baud download in grainy GIF format. If they had, there would have been rules, more rebellion, a lack of the independence I needed, and a resort to family-friendly activities that would have turned me into a happy go lucky lacrosse playing drone.
You say you trust him. Now show it.
(of course, IANAP, YMMV.)
posted by Saucy Intruder at 8:29 AM on December 21, 2005
I'm with the "no internet access in his room" crowd. My parents always used to say they trusted me, but didn't trust other people. It infuriated me, and I would insist that trust meant they had to let me do . Now I get it. They trusted me to exercise the best judgement I had, however they were aware that a kid's or teenagers best judgement is not always great. See here and here, for example. They didn't want me in situations that my judgement was not yet developed enough to handle. They were right.
However... if you really would like to put the internet access in his room...
My cousin has her cable model plugged in to one of those outlets that is controlled by a light switch, but her kids don't know this. Sometimes the internet "Doesn't work right now...maybe it will work later. Oh well." Now her kids are obviously younger than 15.
A modified version of this, with the switch located in your bedroom wouldn't control the sites he visits, but would at least keep him from being up all night finding porn. (Let him find the porn during the day when he can get his beauty sleep).
This could/would be in addition to any filtering.
posted by duck at 8:30 AM on December 21, 2005
However... if you really would like to put the internet access in his room...
My cousin has her cable model plugged in to one of those outlets that is controlled by a light switch, but her kids don't know this. Sometimes the internet "Doesn't work right now...maybe it will work later. Oh well." Now her kids are obviously younger than 15.
A modified version of this, with the switch located in your bedroom wouldn't control the sites he visits, but would at least keep him from being up all night finding porn. (Let him find the porn during the day when he can get his beauty sleep).
This could/would be in addition to any filtering.
posted by duck at 8:30 AM on December 21, 2005
I also grew up with internet access behind a closed door, and I also agree with Hidalgo.
If you don't trust him enough to let him online unsupervised, you have three years to let him earn that trust. So let him earn it already. You can start with a logged connection in the living room. But you'd better have graduated him to an unlogged connection in his own room — and really trust him with it — by the time he leaves for college. Otherwise you're gonna be a total nervous wreck when he does, and he may not be much better.
If it helps, consider this: The internet is a source of information. It won't mug your son, take his clothes off in the back seat of its car, or pass him a joint. Assuming he hasn't got a secret checking account or credit card — and he can't have those things legally, not at 15 — he can't even buy anything online without your knowledge. If you trust him with a phone and a library card now, trusting him with the internet won't be such a stretch. If you're not there now, get there.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:30 AM on December 21, 2005
If you don't trust him enough to let him online unsupervised, you have three years to let him earn that trust. So let him earn it already. You can start with a logged connection in the living room. But you'd better have graduated him to an unlogged connection in his own room — and really trust him with it — by the time he leaves for college. Otherwise you're gonna be a total nervous wreck when he does, and he may not be much better.
If it helps, consider this: The internet is a source of information. It won't mug your son, take his clothes off in the back seat of its car, or pass him a joint. Assuming he hasn't got a secret checking account or credit card — and he can't have those things legally, not at 15 — he can't even buy anything online without your knowledge. If you trust him with a phone and a library card now, trusting him with the internet won't be such a stretch. If you're not there now, get there.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:30 AM on December 21, 2005
1. Don't put the PC in his room. Idle time and curious minds. In a common location, you can watch, help out, ask questions, etc. Give him a little space, of course, but he's less likely to stray if it's in the open.
2. Log and monitor. Just in case.
3. A filter can help avoid accidental clicks. Gaming and other sites that he might frequent (with no bad intent on his part) are often a click or two away from trouble.
Focus on the Family does has some ideas on keeping your kids safe on the Internet.
Her show is not geared to techies, so it's mostly consumer-level advice, but Kim Komando has suggestions for parents with kids on computers.
posted by mumeishi at 8:31 AM on December 21, 2005
2. Log and monitor. Just in case.
3. A filter can help avoid accidental clicks. Gaming and other sites that he might frequent (with no bad intent on his part) are often a click or two away from trouble.
Focus on the Family does has some ideas on keeping your kids safe on the Internet.
Her show is not geared to techies, so it's mostly consumer-level advice, but Kim Komando has suggestions for parents with kids on computers.
posted by mumeishi at 8:31 AM on December 21, 2005
Hidalgo nailed it.
At 15, nothing you do will prevent the kid from doing as he will on a networked computer.
This is seperate from the issue of: why worry about controlling his access anyway? Because of porn? Believe me, he can get porn regardless of your "controllling" net access on the computer in his room. He's past the age where you should be worrying about him just being stupid online, and barring things like ordering a $5000 plasma screen with your credit card...what is there to be scared of here?
posted by griffey at 8:33 AM on December 21, 2005
At 15, nothing you do will prevent the kid from doing as he will on a networked computer.
This is seperate from the issue of: why worry about controlling his access anyway? Because of porn? Believe me, he can get porn regardless of your "controllling" net access on the computer in his room. He's past the age where you should be worrying about him just being stupid online, and barring things like ordering a $5000 plasma screen with your credit card...what is there to be scared of here?
posted by griffey at 8:33 AM on December 21, 2005
Best answer: I realize people mean well but keep in mind the poster asked for technical advice, not parenting advice.
posted by bondcliff at 8:33 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by bondcliff at 8:33 AM on December 21, 2005
Just to throw in a different take- if I had been able to cruise the internet when I was 15, I would have nervously gone to gay sites, realized that I wasn't the only boy who wanted to be with other boys, and saved about 10 years of unhappiness and maladjustment. (And probably saved two ex-girlfriends from the same unhappiness...)
I just don't think that easy access to porn via the net is such a bad thing. It would have helped me.
posted by Futurehouse at 8:34 AM on December 21, 2005
I just don't think that easy access to porn via the net is such a bad thing. It would have helped me.
posted by Futurehouse at 8:34 AM on December 21, 2005
I must have been around 15 when i first got access to the internet. At first I thought looking at porn was terribly exciting. Then after a while it got boring.
When the time comes for me to have kids I will not restrict their access to the internet. My parents didn't try to block my access to porn or any such things and they certainly didn't log everything I did online. And I think I turned out okay.
posted by sveskemus at 8:36 AM on December 21, 2005
When the time comes for me to have kids I will not restrict their access to the internet. My parents didn't try to block my access to porn or any such things and they certainly didn't log everything I did online. And I think I turned out okay.
posted by sveskemus at 8:36 AM on December 21, 2005
Also, keep in mind that trusting him is only half the equation. There are people out there that you definitely can't trust, and not filtering your internet is as good as opening your home to them.
You're probably already helping him build moral character, so he should be able to handle situations out "in the real world." No need to encourage mistakes at home.
As for "graduating" to unlogged or unmonitored connections... if he's not doing anything wrong, and you're responsible for him and paying the rent, he shouldn't have a problem with you monitoring things.
posted by mumeishi at 8:43 AM on December 21, 2005
You're probably already helping him build moral character, so he should be able to handle situations out "in the real world." No need to encourage mistakes at home.
As for "graduating" to unlogged or unmonitored connections... if he's not doing anything wrong, and you're responsible for him and paying the rent, he shouldn't have a problem with you monitoring things.
posted by mumeishi at 8:43 AM on December 21, 2005
Here are some observations from my own experience, as a (former?) kid, not as a parent. I've had unrestricted access to the internet, probably since I was 13. This has been a good thing. It's helped me considerably with my schoolwork. It's become a source of income. It's helped me speak and write english pretty fluently, sometimes I even express myself better in english than in my first language. And probably the most important point, through having access to the Internet, I've learned a heck of a lot about stuff that interests me, including topics like politics, history and technology, that I most definitely would not have learned without it.
And here's my assertion: This would not have happened, if my access to the Internet was, in any way, restricted. The Internet has been such an important tool to me, because I've known how to use it. I've learned to use it because using the computer always has been a private and fun arena, where I could freely explore the sea of information the Internet had to offer, on my own initiative. If I had to do this on a shared computer in the living room I would have been distracted and unconcentrated, and it wouldn't have been anywhere near as fun.
That said, there are things on the Internet you don't want your kid to be looking at. Porn is in no way the worst. This is just as much true on the Internet as it is in real life. Since no parental control software is going to let you control your son forever, you need to let your son make an active decision not access things that are bad for him. In my opinion, your job should be to explain to your son what it is that is bad for him, and why. From your description it sounds like your son is sensible person. Trust that he'll do what is good for him.
posted by cheerleaders_to_your_funeral at 8:51 AM on December 21, 2005
And here's my assertion: This would not have happened, if my access to the Internet was, in any way, restricted. The Internet has been such an important tool to me, because I've known how to use it. I've learned to use it because using the computer always has been a private and fun arena, where I could freely explore the sea of information the Internet had to offer, on my own initiative. If I had to do this on a shared computer in the living room I would have been distracted and unconcentrated, and it wouldn't have been anywhere near as fun.
That said, there are things on the Internet you don't want your kid to be looking at. Porn is in no way the worst. This is just as much true on the Internet as it is in real life. Since no parental control software is going to let you control your son forever, you need to let your son make an active decision not access things that are bad for him. In my opinion, your job should be to explain to your son what it is that is bad for him, and why. From your description it sounds like your son is sensible person. Trust that he'll do what is good for him.
posted by cheerleaders_to_your_funeral at 8:51 AM on December 21, 2005
if he's not doing anything wrong, and you're responsible for him and paying the rent, he shouldn't have a problem with you monitoring things
What's your definition of "wrong?" As Futurehouse alluded to, what if the kid is unsure of his sexual orientation, and wishes to seek contact with similarly-minded people? I wouldn't imagine this is something a 15-year-old wants to share with his parents, but it's not "wrong," and it's not going to get him or his family in trouble.
If genefinder doesn't believe that his teenager deserves to have privacy, we're not going to be able to change that.... but don't conflate "wrong things" with "things people would never want their parents to know about."
posted by rxrfrx at 8:52 AM on December 21, 2005
What's your definition of "wrong?" As Futurehouse alluded to, what if the kid is unsure of his sexual orientation, and wishes to seek contact with similarly-minded people? I wouldn't imagine this is something a 15-year-old wants to share with his parents, but it's not "wrong," and it's not going to get him or his family in trouble.
If genefinder doesn't believe that his teenager deserves to have privacy, we're not going to be able to change that.... but don't conflate "wrong things" with "things people would never want their parents to know about."
posted by rxrfrx at 8:52 AM on December 21, 2005
As several others have pointed out, the only true filter you're going to get on your son's internet access is the one you've hopefully been building inside him for the last 15 years. If he wants to, he will find a workaround for anything you can put between him and the net. I think you would do much better to spend your energies developing the filter in his head.
posted by fidelity at 9:02 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by fidelity at 9:02 AM on December 21, 2005
I think the moment the question is framed into He is a good kid, honors student, and gives us no trouble. I'd like to keep it that way by limiting the temptation to get sucked into the world of porn or chat rooms or anything else that might become a distraction any sensible answer is hopeless. Just admit to yourself and to him you absolutely distrust him and all education you gave him, allow him one homework hour of Internet access (using the insane "router in the kitchen" method described above, for instance) per week day (with you sitting in his room behind him, just to be sure no "distraction" happens). And since all things about responsibility, respect for himself and for others and such you and your wife tried to teach him were apparently wasted, simply admit that in two years, alone in the world, he will became a porn addicted alcoholic crack-whore, forget about this whole new computer thing and start saving for the defense fund .
posted by nkyad at 9:16 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by nkyad at 9:16 AM on December 21, 2005
I agree with the masses on this one. You read that NY Times story over on the blue pages about the kid who was "sucked into a world of porn" through his webcam? Sensationalist, but there you are. If you have to print it out as a "why you aren't having a computer in your room until you are paying for your own housing" it will do.
Computers and televisions do not belong in a kid's room. They belong in the family room. Hey, it's right next to your computer, so he gets the "same" right of privacy that you do. And should he accidentally click a wrong link and end up somewhere he shouldn't be, you are right nearby to discuss things. You are the parent. You are the V-chip.
posted by ilsa at 9:18 AM on December 21, 2005
Computers and televisions do not belong in a kid's room. They belong in the family room. Hey, it's right next to your computer, so he gets the "same" right of privacy that you do. And should he accidentally click a wrong link and end up somewhere he shouldn't be, you are right nearby to discuss things. You are the parent. You are the V-chip.
posted by ilsa at 9:18 AM on December 21, 2005
I have been on the net since I was about 13 as well, and it helped me get started as an activist, learning like a madwoman about politics, history and organizing. I also learned how to argue on IRC.
Certainly risky people were around and dangled feelers. What actually protected me from that was the fact that I had paid attention in Health Class and to the moral and safety guides all around me. This is also what kept me safe running around town with radicals and poets all the time.
The point is that your kid's own native intelligence and prudence will help him. Even at that age I was focused on getting the fuck out of Dodge and into a decent college. I didn't let anything I did stop me from doing that.
He will be exposed to porn, drugs, sex and violence by his cohorts at school and at their homes. You can't control it. He probably has already, but he's fine and on track.
posted by By The Grace of God at 9:24 AM on December 21, 2005
Certainly risky people were around and dangled feelers. What actually protected me from that was the fact that I had paid attention in Health Class and to the moral and safety guides all around me. This is also what kept me safe running around town with radicals and poets all the time.
The point is that your kid's own native intelligence and prudence will help him. Even at that age I was focused on getting the fuck out of Dodge and into a decent college. I didn't let anything I did stop me from doing that.
He will be exposed to porn, drugs, sex and violence by his cohorts at school and at their homes. You can't control it. He probably has already, but he's fine and on track.
posted by By The Grace of God at 9:24 AM on December 21, 2005
My sister's daughter put xxx in the searchbar at her Mom's workplace when she was about ten. The porn popups wouldn't stop until Mom shut down and rebooted. Poor kid was mortified. Maybe if you just let him have unlimited access, behind closed doors, but reset his homepage every chance you get to stuff like Gay.com or animalsex.net, then "discover" it and make a joke of it, you'd get better results. Kid knows that you know, that you're on HIS side in all this, and that there is nothing in that darn box that he can not come and talk to you about if it's troubling him.
posted by FredsinPa at 9:33 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by FredsinPa at 9:33 AM on December 21, 2005
i second the recommendation for yesterday's nytimes piece - it is sensationalist, but sobering and heartbreaking.
on preview, FredsinPa, if my mom or dad "reset my homepage to animalsex.net", i'd be scarred for life. also, the suggestion that gay.com and "animalsex.net" are in anyway equivalent is offensive.
posted by judith at 9:40 AM on December 21, 2005
on preview, FredsinPa, if my mom or dad "reset my homepage to animalsex.net", i'd be scarred for life. also, the suggestion that gay.com and "animalsex.net" are in anyway equivalent is offensive.
posted by judith at 9:40 AM on December 21, 2005
I'm not a parent, but if you really want to keep your son safe online, keep that computer in a common place. No internet access in the bedroom.
He's 15. He will look at porn.
He may download music or other illegal things available on the internet - you'll be liable.
I used to work at a Help Desk... so many parents of 15 and 16 year old boys had to bring their PCs in to get cleaned up from spyware and other crap brought on by inappropriate browsing, it was ridiculous.
posted by k8t at 9:44 AM on December 21, 2005
He's 15. He will look at porn.
He may download music or other illegal things available on the internet - you'll be liable.
I used to work at a Help Desk... so many parents of 15 and 16 year old boys had to bring their PCs in to get cleaned up from spyware and other crap brought on by inappropriate browsing, it was ridiculous.
posted by k8t at 9:44 AM on December 21, 2005
Here's a story on duck's first link that doesn't reside behind a pay wall (boo!).
posted by jjg at 9:52 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by jjg at 9:52 AM on December 21, 2005
I was that honors student, good kid, tons of extracurriculars, National Merit Scholar -- whatever stuff you can claim, I've been there. One computer in the house, in the dining room (a heavily trafficked area), on a connection that usually ran about 10kbps. And highly overprotective parents who installed all kinds of spy software.
I still did whatever I wanted, which admittedly was not very much, but was some. My brother, who's four years younger and has most of the same qualifications I have, gets away with stuff to a ridiculous extent.
Bottom line: If your kid wants porn, he'll get it. If he wants to talk to creepy people, he will. None of these suggestions will stop an even moderately-determined kid from looking at porn or downloading something you don't want.
Talk to him about downloading stuff -- "We don't want Kazaa on here because of malware blah blah blah, and we don't want illegal MP3s or torrents of whatever because we're afraid of being sued blah blah blah." If he's smart, he'll realize it's true.
Porn? You're going to have to have a really good reason for not wanting him to check it out. No, a better reason than that. And it still won't be good enough.
If you want it in his room, your only hope is a whitelist, and he'll probably work around that. I still strongly suggest putting it in a public area -- and on nights when he "has to work really late on some big project," you decide it's a good night to pay your bills sitting at the table behind him. And of course do two accounts, even on his computer; one admin, for you (with a good password; your birth year or the pet's name is worthless), and one with few privileges for him.
He'll get the message that you don't trust him. But that's okay; you probably shouldn't.
posted by booksandlibretti at 10:22 AM on December 21, 2005
I still did whatever I wanted, which admittedly was not very much, but was some. My brother, who's four years younger and has most of the same qualifications I have, gets away with stuff to a ridiculous extent.
Bottom line: If your kid wants porn, he'll get it. If he wants to talk to creepy people, he will. None of these suggestions will stop an even moderately-determined kid from looking at porn or downloading something you don't want.
Talk to him about downloading stuff -- "We don't want Kazaa on here because of malware blah blah blah, and we don't want illegal MP3s or torrents of whatever because we're afraid of being sued blah blah blah." If he's smart, he'll realize it's true.
Porn? You're going to have to have a really good reason for not wanting him to check it out. No, a better reason than that. And it still won't be good enough.
If you want it in his room, your only hope is a whitelist, and he'll probably work around that. I still strongly suggest putting it in a public area -- and on nights when he "has to work really late on some big project," you decide it's a good night to pay your bills sitting at the table behind him. And of course do two accounts, even on his computer; one admin, for you (with a good password; your birth year or the pet's name is worthless), and one with few privileges for him.
He'll get the message that you don't trust him. But that's okay; you probably shouldn't.
posted by booksandlibretti at 10:22 AM on December 21, 2005
It really makes you nostalgic for those simple, halcyon days when a kid would just go out into the nearest woods and find porno under a log where some other kind soul had stashed it, don't it? It does me, at least.
posted by Scram at 10:26 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by Scram at 10:26 AM on December 21, 2005
As a teenager, I grew up without internet access in the house (this was in the days of Compuserve and Prodigy). But my friends had plenty of access and numbers for all sorts of BBSs filled with unsavory materials. I remember when a pal got a 14.4 modem - we stayed up all night downloading double penetration photos, the anarchists cookbook, etc.
Boys of your son's age are intensely curious about this stuff (weren't you?). Limiting his access at home isn't going to make much of a difference. In short, technology - or the lack thereof - isn't going to provide a solution.
When my Mom discovered a stash of porn mags under my bed (why boys think this area is somehow mom-proof is beyond me) she didn't freak out and didn't confiscate them. Instead, she asked me if I had any questions about sex, relationships, etc. I didn't want to talk about it, of course, but the fact that she made herself available meant a lot.
What's more, she carefully left a copy of What's Happening to My Body? in a place I was sure to find it.
Looking back on it, I think she handled that aspect of my upbringing pretty well. Had she gone out of her way to prevent me from being exposed to certain ideas and images I think I'd have gone to great lengths to find them, and would have been without the healthy context that she provided.
posted by aladfar at 10:39 AM on December 21, 2005
Boys of your son's age are intensely curious about this stuff (weren't you?). Limiting his access at home isn't going to make much of a difference. In short, technology - or the lack thereof - isn't going to provide a solution.
When my Mom discovered a stash of porn mags under my bed (why boys think this area is somehow mom-proof is beyond me) she didn't freak out and didn't confiscate them. Instead, she asked me if I had any questions about sex, relationships, etc. I didn't want to talk about it, of course, but the fact that she made herself available meant a lot.
What's more, she carefully left a copy of What's Happening to My Body? in a place I was sure to find it.
Looking back on it, I think she handled that aspect of my upbringing pretty well. Had she gone out of her way to prevent me from being exposed to certain ideas and images I think I'd have gone to great lengths to find them, and would have been without the healthy context that she provided.
posted by aladfar at 10:39 AM on December 21, 2005
Checking genefilter's history here, seems his worldview and mine are pretty similar...I don't think poohpooing the fact he wants his kid to stay away from porn is helpful.
None of mine went looking for porn. (Hubby is techsavvy and would have known, even if they did.) The worst that happened is when one used profanity on her blog, whereupon a sibling busted her for it.
If his kid is a good kid all around, I wouldn't worry about blocking software, etc. because I do agree that sends a message of mistrust. I think that simply making sure computers are used in public areas is good enough. Frankly I would much rather my children make their mistakes before they leave home. And every kid makes mistakes.
I was one of those kids that was parented to death and the minute I left home I got into everything Mom was trying to keep me away from. There is a process to adulthood and selfgovernance and it needs to start long before Junior goes off to the cesspool that is college.
posted by konolia at 10:44 AM on December 21, 2005
None of mine went looking for porn. (Hubby is techsavvy and would have known, even if they did.) The worst that happened is when one used profanity on her blog, whereupon a sibling busted her for it.
If his kid is a good kid all around, I wouldn't worry about blocking software, etc. because I do agree that sends a message of mistrust. I think that simply making sure computers are used in public areas is good enough. Frankly I would much rather my children make their mistakes before they leave home. And every kid makes mistakes.
I was one of those kids that was parented to death and the minute I left home I got into everything Mom was trying to keep me away from. There is a process to adulthood and selfgovernance and it needs to start long before Junior goes off to the cesspool that is college.
posted by konolia at 10:44 AM on December 21, 2005
Since the main concern seems to be pornography, let me just say this, as a male who was 15 (and 16, 17, 18, etc.) once: you won't be able to stop him from thinking about sex, being curious about sex, wanting to have sex, and looking at pornography (and masturbating to it.) He's probably seen porn already, quite possibly on your computer (after all, even if it is in a "communal area," you can hardly have a 24/7 watch on it.
What we all know is that the internet is fraught with offroads into dark areas that anyone can stumble upon innocently enough. And I'm worried that any introduction could be distracting at best and tempt him to further searching at worst.
I really don't mean this to be sarcastic or insulting, but my god, further searching? Civilization itself may collapse if the child learns something about alternative lifestyles.
I think that logging his access is a good solution, even if I wouldn't necessarily do it with my (hypothetical) children, and I chafed under it as a teenager myself.
If he's a smart kid, like I was, he will at the same time get the impression that you don't trust him (and it sounds like you don't), and that you are being unnecessarily overbearing. Which, IMO, you probably are, although it's your call.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 10:56 AM on December 21, 2005
What we all know is that the internet is fraught with offroads into dark areas that anyone can stumble upon innocently enough. And I'm worried that any introduction could be distracting at best and tempt him to further searching at worst.
I really don't mean this to be sarcastic or insulting, but my god, further searching? Civilization itself may collapse if the child learns something about alternative lifestyles.
I think that logging his access is a good solution, even if I wouldn't necessarily do it with my (hypothetical) children, and I chafed under it as a teenager myself.
If he's a smart kid, like I was, he will at the same time get the impression that you don't trust him (and it sounds like you don't), and that you are being unnecessarily overbearing. Which, IMO, you probably are, although it's your call.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 10:56 AM on December 21, 2005
Hey guys, this is askme. He's asking for advice on how to block access. If you don't have any advice in that regard then your opinions about how to parent are just shitting all over this page and undermining the usefullness of this site.
posted by glenwood at 11:14 AM on December 21, 2005
posted by glenwood at 11:14 AM on December 21, 2005
The whole evil world of computers was only a few years ago for me. I was given free rein, and have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I was able to learn and research to my hearts content. Furthermore, I was able to become very proficient at using a computer, since I had my own since 1st grade.
On the other hand, I succumed to the temptations of internet pornography on more than one occasion. I probably shouldn't have read 180 Days of Sodom in 10th grade. Nor should I have visited certain websites.
The posters who have asserted that it is practically impossible to control internet access through filters and software are correct. If you did that to me, and I was your hypothetical son, I would install a keylogger on my own computer, then use your password to disable the software.
The best solution for you would probably be to keep the computer in a communal area or re-analyze your feelings about the dark side of the internet.
posted by matkline at 11:30 AM on December 21, 2005
On the other hand, I succumed to the temptations of internet pornography on more than one occasion. I probably shouldn't have read 180 Days of Sodom in 10th grade. Nor should I have visited certain websites.
The posters who have asserted that it is practically impossible to control internet access through filters and software are correct. If you did that to me, and I was your hypothetical son, I would install a keylogger on my own computer, then use your password to disable the software.
The best solution for you would probably be to keep the computer in a communal area or re-analyze your feelings about the dark side of the internet.
posted by matkline at 11:30 AM on December 21, 2005
Okay....glenwood has a point. That I'm about to ignore, but so be it :)
I was a very intelligent, hardworking 15-year-old with internet access in my room. My parents gave me a decent moral upbringing, and I had a good amount of common sense - and this was in 1997, so I could certainly get into trouble if I wanted to. What did I do? Discover snopes.com and a Delphi BB where I got to interact with people very different from me all over the world. I can say, very strongly, that I would not be the same person I am today, especially if I hadn't found Snopes and ye olde about.com urban legends site.
I also wouldn't have killed hours of my life reading Forever Knight fanfiction, but hey, it didn't scar me permanently or anything.
And good lord. Porn is not going to take your son out back, steal his wallet, turn him on to meth or emotionally cripple him. He's fifteen. I can almost guarentee he's found your old porn mags, or one of his buddy's father's, and has wanked off to them.
If you're going to trust him, trust him. Talk to him, make sure he knows he can go to his old man if he's got questions or is worried about something. Because - and I speak from experience - if you blather on about trusting him and then clearly don't, he will notice. And he'll find a way to get around things anyway. I was reading porn in our living room and no one noticed, because it was just a wall of text. The internet's a scary place, but your son sounds like a wonderful young man who's got a good moral and ethical grounding. Keep up with him, and keep up with what he's interested in, and I think you'll do just fine.
posted by kalimac at 11:32 AM on December 21, 2005
I was a very intelligent, hardworking 15-year-old with internet access in my room. My parents gave me a decent moral upbringing, and I had a good amount of common sense - and this was in 1997, so I could certainly get into trouble if I wanted to. What did I do? Discover snopes.com and a Delphi BB where I got to interact with people very different from me all over the world. I can say, very strongly, that I would not be the same person I am today, especially if I hadn't found Snopes and ye olde about.com urban legends site.
I also wouldn't have killed hours of my life reading Forever Knight fanfiction, but hey, it didn't scar me permanently or anything.
And good lord. Porn is not going to take your son out back, steal his wallet, turn him on to meth or emotionally cripple him. He's fifteen. I can almost guarentee he's found your old porn mags, or one of his buddy's father's, and has wanked off to them.
If you're going to trust him, trust him. Talk to him, make sure he knows he can go to his old man if he's got questions or is worried about something. Because - and I speak from experience - if you blather on about trusting him and then clearly don't, he will notice. And he'll find a way to get around things anyway. I was reading porn in our living room and no one noticed, because it was just a wall of text. The internet's a scary place, but your son sounds like a wonderful young man who's got a good moral and ethical grounding. Keep up with him, and keep up with what he's interested in, and I think you'll do just fine.
posted by kalimac at 11:32 AM on December 21, 2005
Hidalgo nailed it.
Please, genefinder, were you never a fifteen year old? What are you worried about? Please do let him have it in his room. How is he supposed to masturbate in a public area of the house? I'm just now imagining the poor little bugger trying to surreptitiously wank at the office desk while you're next door in the TV room, sheesh, give him a break...
Please let him, nay encourage him, to download The Anarchist's Cookbook, to go to ogrish and watch videos of people getting shot, to check out gotse and tubgirl, to find all the strange and wonderful and crazy dangerous shit there is out in the world.
Let him grow and learn, get out of his way, please give it a thought genefinder.
posted by Meatbomb at 11:56 AM on December 21, 2005
Please, genefinder, were you never a fifteen year old? What are you worried about? Please do let him have it in his room. How is he supposed to masturbate in a public area of the house? I'm just now imagining the poor little bugger trying to surreptitiously wank at the office desk while you're next door in the TV room, sheesh, give him a break...
Please let him, nay encourage him, to download The Anarchist's Cookbook, to go to ogrish and watch videos of people getting shot, to check out gotse and tubgirl, to find all the strange and wonderful and crazy dangerous shit there is out in the world.
Let him grow and learn, get out of his way, please give it a thought genefinder.
posted by Meatbomb at 11:56 AM on December 21, 2005
I'm 16 (and an honor student, not that it matters much). I'm just going to reiterate what everyone else is saying, but no one else has said that they're a teenager, so I figured I'd chime in. My parents have never restricted my internet access, and my computer is upstairs and away from them, but not in my room. Trust me when I say that monitoring your kid's internet is a bad idea. He'll only want to see the stuff more, and devise more and more devious ways of getting around it. I've been online since I was 13 or so, and yeah, I've had creepy guys flirt with me and seen some stuff I probably shouldn't, but that's life. It hasn't warped me. What would warp me, however, is having my parents look over my shoulder while I'm online. That comes into the same area as diary reading and eavesdropping to me; it's an invasion of privacy in my eyes. Maybe that seems strange, but I've heard LOTS of people complain about their parents finding their Xanga/reading their IM conversations/etc. It's their life, and you shouldn't restrict it any more than you would their "real" life. Would you accompany your son to parties, or stand in the room while his friends were there? If you trust him there, why not trust him online? Any sort of control you impose is only going to make him resent you.
posted by MadamM at 12:58 PM on December 21, 2005
posted by MadamM at 12:58 PM on December 21, 2005
Finally, don't imagine that a sites-visited log will help much. There are lots of places (Anonymizer, for example) that let you create a new identity on their site, surf without leaving any traceable ID and erase the identity and all records of where you've gone.
Getting sucked into the world of porn is rare enough that it makes the front page of the NY Times (though admittedly below the fold on a slow news day).
If you trust your son to look at porn and still live (which, I can confidently say, everybody does these days), you can trust him to stay sane.
I read the 120 Days of Sodom when I was 19 and got extremely bored. After the first 50 pages, it was all anal, and then all S&M. At that point, I didn't need anything more than penetration to get off on. Probably your son needs no more.
posted by KRS at 1:47 PM on December 21, 2005
Getting sucked into the world of porn is rare enough that it makes the front page of the NY Times (though admittedly below the fold on a slow news day).
If you trust your son to look at porn and still live (which, I can confidently say, everybody does these days), you can trust him to stay sane.
I read the 120 Days of Sodom when I was 19 and got extremely bored. After the first 50 pages, it was all anal, and then all S&M. At that point, I didn't need anything more than penetration to get off on. Probably your son needs no more.
posted by KRS at 1:47 PM on December 21, 2005
I agree with the folks here who say either give him his freedom or don't give him a computer. Any kind of filtering or even logging I think ends up criminalizing his desires. You are saying to him, in essence, "Do what you like as long as you only like nice, good things." At 15 he is going through all kinds of stuff, trying to figure himself out, unsure of what he wants or why (and all that creepin' hair!) — by implicitly saying that some things are not okay, you're running the risk of him internalizing that and thinking that his totally normal desires are somehow wrong.
The logging thing is especially creepy to me — it's a little too 1984 or Panopticon. Because you won't just be seeing the "bad" sites that he visits, you'll be seeing the "good" ones, too. Every move will be watched, giving him no private space.
posted by drewbeck at 2:35 PM on December 21, 2005
The logging thing is especially creepy to me — it's a little too 1984 or Panopticon. Because you won't just be seeing the "bad" sites that he visits, you'll be seeing the "good" ones, too. Every move will be watched, giving him no private space.
posted by drewbeck at 2:35 PM on December 21, 2005
Welllll, this probably won't make me very popular around here, but my son's 8 (9 in February) and has had a computer in his room since he was 3. He's internet-enabled. We started out with blocking software, but nixed it after a few months, when he couldn't get to things like Amazon.com (to update his wish list, which I like for him to be able to do on his own) and other useful sites.
I have no problem with the idea of porn and the like; at this age, he's not even close to curious, and if he happens to accidentally encounter something, it's not something we'd freak out about. I don't think sex is something I need to protect the kid from; it's something we discuss all the time. Porn is sex in the extreme, and we discuss extreme aspects of other things, too, like alcohol, drugs, and... computer use.
He mostly uses the 'net for emailing family, playin games on the various kiddie sites, and for learning. He's a stellar reader and thinker, and he's often been able to refer ME to interesting things I'd not have read on my own.
We do worry about viruses and the like. That's been a problem a time or two, but it's part of the overall computer education.
Predators on the 'net REALLY worry me. We're handling that in the same way we handle in-person "stranger danger," and again, it's something we talk about often.
I don't use logging software, at least at this point, but I check in with him often when he's doing computer things, and given that I can account for his time spent online, I feel comfortable thus far.
Oh, and the whole thing is not making for a jaded kid. He's wickedly smart, but he's one of the most absolute sweetest people in the world, very innocent, affectionate, and full of wonder.
Of course, we'll keep an eye on things as time marches on.
posted by houseofdanie at 2:50 PM on December 21, 2005
I have no problem with the idea of porn and the like; at this age, he's not even close to curious, and if he happens to accidentally encounter something, it's not something we'd freak out about. I don't think sex is something I need to protect the kid from; it's something we discuss all the time. Porn is sex in the extreme, and we discuss extreme aspects of other things, too, like alcohol, drugs, and... computer use.
He mostly uses the 'net for emailing family, playin games on the various kiddie sites, and for learning. He's a stellar reader and thinker, and he's often been able to refer ME to interesting things I'd not have read on my own.
We do worry about viruses and the like. That's been a problem a time or two, but it's part of the overall computer education.
Predators on the 'net REALLY worry me. We're handling that in the same way we handle in-person "stranger danger," and again, it's something we talk about often.
I don't use logging software, at least at this point, but I check in with him often when he's doing computer things, and given that I can account for his time spent online, I feel comfortable thus far.
Oh, and the whole thing is not making for a jaded kid. He's wickedly smart, but he's one of the most absolute sweetest people in the world, very innocent, affectionate, and full of wonder.
Of course, we'll keep an eye on things as time marches on.
posted by houseofdanie at 2:50 PM on December 21, 2005
I realize people mean well but keep in mind the poster asked for technical advice, not parenting advice.
He got it. We are telling him it doesn't work. And he has yet to email me to ask about the site forwarding program which is what I would use if I wished to handle things that way.
posted by konolia at 3:28 PM on December 21, 2005
He got it. We are telling him it doesn't work. And he has yet to email me to ask about the site forwarding program which is what I would use if I wished to handle things that way.
posted by konolia at 3:28 PM on December 21, 2005
I am coming to this late, but it's an interesting discussion, particularly after the NYT story. You can't keep your kid completely safe, but I can't blame a parent for trying. Can I suggest old-fashioned solutions?
I am a librarian, and I know for a fact that blocking software doesn't keep out the ultra-icky stuff, it mostly just causes problems on innocent sites. Most libraries have screens facing the reference desk. You could have an open-door policy when he is in on the computer. Does it work all the time? No, but you at least have some limits introduced a point about safety.
What still freaks me out about the Times story was the complete freedom this kid had. My parents were lenient, but they kept an eagle on who I was with, how much money I made, and how I spent it. They looked at my bank statements. I wasn't a perfect kid, but it was difficult for me to put myself in danger. Ultimately the old fashioned limits are what will keep your kid safe.
(BTW, I'm sure you son has already had his fill of internet porn on the school computers. It's a point of honour with the kids today to leave disgusting porn in the cache of all public computers.)
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 4:29 PM on December 21, 2005
I am a librarian, and I know for a fact that blocking software doesn't keep out the ultra-icky stuff, it mostly just causes problems on innocent sites. Most libraries have screens facing the reference desk. You could have an open-door policy when he is in on the computer. Does it work all the time? No, but you at least have some limits introduced a point about safety.
What still freaks me out about the Times story was the complete freedom this kid had. My parents were lenient, but they kept an eagle on who I was with, how much money I made, and how I spent it. They looked at my bank statements. I wasn't a perfect kid, but it was difficult for me to put myself in danger. Ultimately the old fashioned limits are what will keep your kid safe.
(BTW, I'm sure you son has already had his fill of internet porn on the school computers. It's a point of honour with the kids today to leave disgusting porn in the cache of all public computers.)
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 4:29 PM on December 21, 2005
Opps. Intoduced limits and made a point about safety.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 4:32 PM on December 21, 2005
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 4:32 PM on December 21, 2005
As a 19-year-old in college, the computer savvy one in the family, and a kid who got a 486 and AOL for Hanukkah 11 years ago, let him have it in his room. Filtering won't do a damn thing.
If you REALLY want to put any sort of limit on what he does, lockdown the computer from new program installs. Install Office and Firefox and that's it. P2P programs are more commonly used for wrongdoing than anything else. You could also go with a program that restores the computer (except for user folders like my documents) to their pristine state each time you log off and log back on, thus disabling him from stockpiling porn in a secret folder and preventing any sort of spyware or virii from taking control.
But mainly, I think you should just give him the computer and free reign. Have him store his docs on a USB drive of some sort so he doesn't lose it when he infects his computer with spyware and you have to reimage it.
posted by mr.dan at 6:12 PM on December 21, 2005
If you REALLY want to put any sort of limit on what he does, lockdown the computer from new program installs. Install Office and Firefox and that's it. P2P programs are more commonly used for wrongdoing than anything else. You could also go with a program that restores the computer (except for user folders like my documents) to their pristine state each time you log off and log back on, thus disabling him from stockpiling porn in a secret folder and preventing any sort of spyware or virii from taking control.
But mainly, I think you should just give him the computer and free reign. Have him store his docs on a USB drive of some sort so he doesn't lose it when he infects his computer with spyware and you have to reimage it.
posted by mr.dan at 6:12 PM on December 21, 2005
With due respect, genefinder asked for "slick solutions to limiting his access but allowing him to get his work done." Why does this "slick solution" need to be technical? Those of us who aren't offering up software solutions simply believe that thoughtful parenting is better than technology in cases like this.
posted by houseofdanie at 7:07 PM on December 21, 2005
posted by houseofdanie at 7:07 PM on December 21, 2005
houseofdanie : "Welllll, this probably won't make me very popular around here, but my son's 8 (9 in February) and has had a computer in his room since he was 3."
Oh Eris, thank you. Here I was thinking what a lousy parent I am, letting my 14 year old boy have his own computer in his room since he was 6, which was more or less about the time his computer activities started interfering with ours. My other post was kind of harsh, I admit, but I think got a little scared by the amount of control-freakness in the room.
Cray nailed it: "He's asking for a technical solution to a social problem. There is no useful way to answer his question, because there blocking access simply does not work in any useful capacity." I am an educational software expert (I actually own an educational software development company) so I believe I know exactly how much good a computer can do to a kid. And I saw how much good things a computer did for my son.
For the people who keep bringing the NYT story up, do you really think the computer is to blame? That kid had his own life from 13 up, more than unsupervised, ignored by his parents. "Smart" as he seems to be, if he didn't had a computer he would have gained the streets and went on from there.
So, in my opinion the only viable choices while maintaining a open dialogue are, you bet, talking to your son and supervising his internet activities (not micromanaging them, mind you). Take a look at what he is doing now and then, show an interest, help him learn to operate new software, back-ups, upgrades. Get involved, even play his games with him (I have high level characters in many Ragnarok servers, for instance). Al in all, it will also help you mitigate your fantasies about the Internet as a hellhole without hope.
posted by nkyad at 8:49 PM on December 21, 2005
Oh Eris, thank you. Here I was thinking what a lousy parent I am, letting my 14 year old boy have his own computer in his room since he was 6, which was more or less about the time his computer activities started interfering with ours. My other post was kind of harsh, I admit, but I think got a little scared by the amount of control-freakness in the room.
Cray nailed it: "He's asking for a technical solution to a social problem. There is no useful way to answer his question, because there blocking access simply does not work in any useful capacity." I am an educational software expert (I actually own an educational software development company) so I believe I know exactly how much good a computer can do to a kid. And I saw how much good things a computer did for my son.
For the people who keep bringing the NYT story up, do you really think the computer is to blame? That kid had his own life from 13 up, more than unsupervised, ignored by his parents. "Smart" as he seems to be, if he didn't had a computer he would have gained the streets and went on from there.
So, in my opinion the only viable choices while maintaining a open dialogue are, you bet, talking to your son and supervising his internet activities (not micromanaging them, mind you). Take a look at what he is doing now and then, show an interest, help him learn to operate new software, back-ups, upgrades. Get involved, even play his games with him (I have high level characters in many Ragnarok servers, for instance). Al in all, it will also help you mitigate your fantasies about the Internet as a hellhole without hope.
posted by nkyad at 8:49 PM on December 21, 2005
Another latecomer, but I'd like to inject my own experience as having recently been a teenager with unbridled internet access in his room.
I feel I would have been better served by having more parental involvement in my life and internet activities. Not so much blocking or monitoring software (as I would have just found a way to circumvent them), just my parents showing more interest in what I was doing and learning about online. I think if there had been a better relationship there, I wouldn't have gotten into as many of the things that I did.
posted by mindless progress at 10:49 PM on December 22, 2005
I feel I would have been better served by having more parental involvement in my life and internet activities. Not so much blocking or monitoring software (as I would have just found a way to circumvent them), just my parents showing more interest in what I was doing and learning about online. I think if there had been a better relationship there, I wouldn't have gotten into as many of the things that I did.
posted by mindless progress at 10:49 PM on December 22, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by By The Grace of God at 7:30 AM on December 21, 2005