Brand new puppy - must I let her cry it out?
March 31, 2016 11:06 AM Subscribe
I just got this 9-week old puppy. It's her second day with us. She cried at night and she cries any time she's left on her own. I'm told the only way to teach her to be alone is to let her cry it out. I didn't do it with my (human) babies and I'd rather not do it with the puppy either. Surely there is a more humane way?
Well, the problem with going to her each time she cries is that it positively reinforces the crying. It would be MUCH better if you positively reinforced her being alone, by making sure when she is, something wonderful like a fabulous (safe) chew toy is happening. Crate training helps with this . . . if the crate feels safe and welcoming, she will not view being alone in it as a bad thing.
I'd also reconsider making her be alone each night. That's a long time. Can she sleep in the same room with you?
I'd further suggest you patiently try teaching her to stop crying. Puppies have a nanosecond attention span, so that's why you have to be very patient. The trick is to mark the exact moment she stops crying (a clicker is a great way to do this) and follow with something she loves like a small treat or pets or attention.
posted by bearwife at 11:14 AM on March 31, 2016 [12 favorites]
I'd also reconsider making her be alone each night. That's a long time. Can she sleep in the same room with you?
I'd further suggest you patiently try teaching her to stop crying. Puppies have a nanosecond attention span, so that's why you have to be very patient. The trick is to mark the exact moment she stops crying (a clicker is a great way to do this) and follow with something she loves like a small treat or pets or attention.
posted by bearwife at 11:14 AM on March 31, 2016 [12 favorites]
A puppy that young may be crying for a reason - i.e., not just for attention, but to pee. The general advice when woken by a puppy in the middle of the night is to leash him/her up and go outside for a quick bathroom break. Do not talk to or look at the puppy during this time - you want it to be a bathroom break only, not a reward/fun time. If a couple of minutes pass with no elimination, back inside.
Otherwise, agree with cecic about giving her a worn shirt, and with bearwife about rewarding her for not crying.
I also think it would ideal to have her in your room, but I am a crazy dog person who can't sleep without my lab in bed with me, so grain of salt and all that.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 11:22 AM on March 31, 2016 [7 favorites]
Otherwise, agree with cecic about giving her a worn shirt, and with bearwife about rewarding her for not crying.
I also think it would ideal to have her in your room, but I am a crazy dog person who can't sleep without my lab in bed with me, so grain of salt and all that.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 11:22 AM on March 31, 2016 [7 favorites]
Bearwife is correct. I don't really think of this as a "cry it out" scenario - it's just a question of what behavior you reward and encourage. When you respond to crying by appearing, you reinforce crying. The answer is to consistently and overwhelmingly reinforce the behavior you want using lots of rewards: treats, pets, wrestling with a toy, whatever particularly motivates your dog. Over time, behaviors that achieve nothing will usually self-extinguish as the dog learns to favor the ones that have met with positive responses. It takes time and patience.
posted by itstheclamsname at 11:27 AM on March 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by itstheclamsname at 11:27 AM on March 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
Well, I admit my Aussie is on the bed each night with me too . . . since we are confessing!
posted by bearwife at 11:28 AM on March 31, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 11:28 AM on March 31, 2016 [9 favorites]
Yeah, and I had two large German Shepherds on the bed last night. You pick your battles.
posted by itstheclamsname at 11:31 AM on March 31, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by itstheclamsname at 11:31 AM on March 31, 2016 [7 favorites]
When we got our puppy, we asked for one of the (dirty) towels from her litter so she would have that comforting familial scent with her in her kennel. It worked very well. Can you go back to the breeder and ask for something like that?
posted by lizbunny at 11:32 AM on March 31, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by lizbunny at 11:32 AM on March 31, 2016 [5 favorites]
I've never used this but people I know have raved about the heartbeat pillow. In addition to everything above, running that little bugger around until it drops from exhaustion will help for a calmer night.
posted by archimago at 11:38 AM on March 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by archimago at 11:38 AM on March 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
You have to decide a lot of things to figure this out. There is no "right way." Do you plan to let the puppy sleep with you eventually? Do you want to crate train? Do you want to let the puppy wander at night?
Every dog/human interaction is unique. A puppy that young is only reacting to needs rather than wants. You have to learn the dog and which cry means what. My guess is potty + lonely at that age.
posted by syncope at 11:47 AM on March 31, 2016
Every dog/human interaction is unique. A puppy that young is only reacting to needs rather than wants. You have to learn the dog and which cry means what. My guess is potty + lonely at that age.
posted by syncope at 11:47 AM on March 31, 2016
For your own sake, have the puppy in your room at night, so you can hear if she needs to go out to pee. My pup lived in my room for the first year, and then he moved out to his bed. His bed was in a very good place for daytime life, and he liked it, so eventually he began seeing it as his "home" at night as well. He still comes in during the early morning, when he is waiting for me to get up. (I did train him to use his bed when he needed to lie down, but never forced him to stay there).
He is very big, so I don't want him in my bed. He had/has a soft carpet next to my bed he can sleep on. When he was little, he had a big pillow as well as cuddly toys but during adolescence he bit all of those up when he was over-excited. Now he is 3, but if something stresses him badly, he'll still bite something up.
He is allowed in one of our sofas, and when I can feel he really needs to cuddle, I sit in it and he will jump up for cuddle-time.
Dogs are flock-creatures, they need company and cuddling. Not wanting them in your bed is fair enough (I think), but you must compensate.
posted by mumimor at 12:08 PM on March 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
He is very big, so I don't want him in my bed. He had/has a soft carpet next to my bed he can sleep on. When he was little, he had a big pillow as well as cuddly toys but during adolescence he bit all of those up when he was over-excited. Now he is 3, but if something stresses him badly, he'll still bite something up.
He is allowed in one of our sofas, and when I can feel he really needs to cuddle, I sit in it and he will jump up for cuddle-time.
Dogs are flock-creatures, they need company and cuddling. Not wanting them in your bed is fair enough (I think), but you must compensate.
posted by mumimor at 12:08 PM on March 31, 2016 [2 favorites]
Agree with bearwife - you gotta ferbrerize the puppy. I had to do this with my now 8 month old Aussie. I didn't crate train mine, but I did buy a pen that I could set up in the kitchen (accidents were easy to clean up). Before I'd leave, I'd set up her pen, put her bed in there and sit with her in it and play with her, or give her a frozen marrow bone - this way she wouldn't think it was a jail, but a fun place to hang out. Then I'd get up, leave a t-shirt I wore so she would feel comforted and take the toys with me and close it up. She'd fuss a little at first, then settle down. At first when I would leave her, I'd only be gone for a a few minutes. Then I'd gradually extend the time to several minutes, 15 min., then 30 min., 45min, then an hour. As she got older and her bladder was capable of holding more, I'd extend the time some more.
She would also sleep in her pen in the kitchen at night. Before bed, I'd sit in her pen with her to show her it wasn't a punishment, but a fun safe place to chill out, then leave. I'd get up to potty her a few times at night and she'd go back in. Once she was finally able to hold her bladder until morning, we didn't need the pen anymore. As a matter of fact, she now sleeps on the couch in the living room by herself, even though I'd prefer she slept with me! She is completely comfortable with being alone.
I know it's difficult to hear them cry, but it's really ok - she'll settle down.
posted by ATX Peanut at 12:25 PM on March 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
She would also sleep in her pen in the kitchen at night. Before bed, I'd sit in her pen with her to show her it wasn't a punishment, but a fun safe place to chill out, then leave. I'd get up to potty her a few times at night and she'd go back in. Once she was finally able to hold her bladder until morning, we didn't need the pen anymore. As a matter of fact, she now sleeps on the couch in the living room by herself, even though I'd prefer she slept with me! She is completely comfortable with being alone.
I know it's difficult to hear them cry, but it's really ok - she'll settle down.
posted by ATX Peanut at 12:25 PM on March 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
Aw, what a cutie! Sooo, my overall advice is to avoid separation anxiety becoming a solid habit because it's miserable for the owner, and even more miserable for the dog. It's the one thing I really, really wish I had known more about / researched more before we got our 2-year-old rescue. It's been many years since then, but she's still fairly devastated if if we leave her on her own, and we end up planning almost everything around that. If you can consult with a good trainer at this early point of socializing and other essential learning skills, it would be a good investment, I think.
However, I also strongly believe that since dogs are pack animals, that if we choose to integrate them into our lives, we need to make the room to do that in a way that accommodates their essential nature. I, personally, wouldn't ever make a dog stay alone overnight, or keep one outdoors alone for any reason. They need to be with their pack, and that might be companion dog(s) and/or human family, but isolating the dog away from the comfort of the pack seems cruel to me. Our dog sleeps in our bedroom. Sometimes we invite her on the bed and she'll choose to come up for a bit, but she really prefers her own comfy bed in our bedroom*. In the living room, likewise, she will come snuggle with us on the couch for a while, but really likes to return to her own personal pillow nearby.
She has a personal place in every room we spend time in (dog bed, pillow, cushion, etc.), including the kitchen, and though we don't restrict her at all, she really likes the comfort and security of having her own little space, where she's able to be with us wherever we are, but also relax in her personal comfort spot.
So my mixed message is a) definitely teach your puppy how to be alone for reasonable periods – it's so very important! but b) the other side of the coin is that you are choosing to live with an animal that has certain needs in order to feel happy and secure, and being a part of the family/pack is number one on that list, so if there isn't another friendly dog or maybe a friendly cat (for cat-loving dogs), to keep your dog company, don't shut them out from your human companionship for significant periods of your everyday at-home life.
*To be honest, my dog has three personal cushiony spaces in our bedroom: one next to my desk that's located there, so she can be by me when I'm on the computer, one at the end of the bed where she likes to sleep at night; one right next to the bed and very close to the wall, where she goes when there's thunder/weird/scary noises.
posted by taz at 12:31 PM on March 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
However, I also strongly believe that since dogs are pack animals, that if we choose to integrate them into our lives, we need to make the room to do that in a way that accommodates their essential nature. I, personally, wouldn't ever make a dog stay alone overnight, or keep one outdoors alone for any reason. They need to be with their pack, and that might be companion dog(s) and/or human family, but isolating the dog away from the comfort of the pack seems cruel to me. Our dog sleeps in our bedroom. Sometimes we invite her on the bed and she'll choose to come up for a bit, but she really prefers her own comfy bed in our bedroom*. In the living room, likewise, she will come snuggle with us on the couch for a while, but really likes to return to her own personal pillow nearby.
She has a personal place in every room we spend time in (dog bed, pillow, cushion, etc.), including the kitchen, and though we don't restrict her at all, she really likes the comfort and security of having her own little space, where she's able to be with us wherever we are, but also relax in her personal comfort spot.
So my mixed message is a) definitely teach your puppy how to be alone for reasonable periods – it's so very important! but b) the other side of the coin is that you are choosing to live with an animal that has certain needs in order to feel happy and secure, and being a part of the family/pack is number one on that list, so if there isn't another friendly dog or maybe a friendly cat (for cat-loving dogs), to keep your dog company, don't shut them out from your human companionship for significant periods of your everyday at-home life.
*To be honest, my dog has three personal cushiony spaces in our bedroom: one next to my desk that's located there, so she can be by me when I'm on the computer, one at the end of the bed where she likes to sleep at night; one right next to the bed and very close to the wall, where she goes when there's thunder/weird/scary noises.
posted by taz at 12:31 PM on March 31, 2016 [4 favorites]
We comprised by only leaving when the puppy was calm and returning before that was likely to change. It meant a lot of sleeping in the kitchen with him, but has resulted in a dog that copes very well with extended absences and doesn't engage in destructive/obnoxious behaviors while we're away.
posted by teremala at 12:40 PM on March 31, 2016
posted by teremala at 12:40 PM on March 31, 2016
Slowly extend the periods of time they are left alone, your pup has gone from surrounded by family & siblings to completely alone for the whole night. If you are worried about it learning to cry, wait until a time between whimpers to go & get the pup so it won't relate the crying to making you appear. Slowly leave it alone for longer times just like it's mother would. Set your alarm during the night & get up a few times to take her out when she is quiet for potty breaks a night is a long time. Leave her with a nice tasty kong with a smear of PB on & a shirt that smells like you, calmly leave her to settle back down again.
While cry it out works it is not the only method that does.
I'm of the my dogs sleep on my bed because I like it that way school of dog owning, my MIL compromised as she doesn't want the dog in her bedroom by putting the crate just outside the door so the dog could still see, hear & smell them. He now has a bed in the hallway there & sleeps outside the room just fine.
Whatever you decide to do stick with it as routine is your ally against separation anxiety more than anything else.
posted by wwax at 1:14 PM on March 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
While cry it out works it is not the only method that does.
I'm of the my dogs sleep on my bed because I like it that way school of dog owning, my MIL compromised as she doesn't want the dog in her bedroom by putting the crate just outside the door so the dog could still see, hear & smell them. He now has a bed in the hallway there & sleeps outside the room just fine.
Whatever you decide to do stick with it as routine is your ally against separation anxiety more than anything else.
posted by wwax at 1:14 PM on March 31, 2016 [1 favorite]
Our doge goes to day care a few days per week (as in all-day immersion with other people and dogs), and a few days a week we have a walker come by to get her out and walking for an hour or two at a time. Separation anxiety is a real thing, and not something veterinarians/ethologists these days tend to encourage addressing by ignoring it. Instead, engage it--dogs tend to hate social isolation, and the more you can give your (adorable) pup social engagement of the canine and human varieties, the more likely pup is to grow up to be a well-adjusted, cool-with-a-bit-of-separation adult doge.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 1:40 PM on March 31, 2016
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 1:40 PM on March 31, 2016
Our puppy had miserable separation anxiety at night when we first brought her home and set up her crate downstairs, she would yelp and whine desperately until she exhausted herself or we went down to get her. After a few nights of that we moved her crate to the foot of our bed and she was fine with that, then maybe a month later after she was well acclimated we moved her back downstairs and and she didn't mind a bit. She's been happy sleeping in the crate ever since.
posted by contraption at 2:53 PM on March 31, 2016
posted by contraption at 2:53 PM on March 31, 2016
My great dane has horrible separation anxiety and sleeps in the bed at night. I work with her on the crying by leaving her incrementally during the day, 20 minutes in the house, 40 minutes in the house, while I'm doing outside garden things. Treats every time she stops. When I come home and she's excited I go in the bathroom and shut the door until she is calm. It takes a lot of work.
posted by Marinara at 2:58 PM on March 31, 2016
posted by Marinara at 2:58 PM on March 31, 2016
Well, she's really young (and so cute!) and is adjusting to a lot of new things - you and your house, plus being away from her mother and litter mates.
I'm not a fan of the 'cry it out' method with puppies, because you're not reinforcing the behavior that you actually want, and dogs are very social creatures that do not instinctively want to be alone. Acceptance of alone time needs to be taught - slowly - when she's older.
I would keep her with you as much as you can, and even if she's not on your bed, she will cry a lot less if she sleeps your room. Once she settles in you can start training her to spend time by herself, either with a crate or a dog bed that she learns is her 'safe place', which you can then relocate if you would prefer her to sleep elsewhere. I have a rescue pup and it took him a couple months of being glued to my side before he felt secure enough to be on his own. I started with five minutes alone and worked up from there. I used a crate for about 5 months, then taught him to associate just his bed with 'safe place'. I never punish him by sending him to his crate / bed, because I want him to only have positive associations with it. So now when I leave, he lays down on his bed and doesn't get anxious at all.
posted by ananci at 4:43 PM on March 31, 2016
I'm not a fan of the 'cry it out' method with puppies, because you're not reinforcing the behavior that you actually want, and dogs are very social creatures that do not instinctively want to be alone. Acceptance of alone time needs to be taught - slowly - when she's older.
I would keep her with you as much as you can, and even if she's not on your bed, she will cry a lot less if she sleeps your room. Once she settles in you can start training her to spend time by herself, either with a crate or a dog bed that she learns is her 'safe place', which you can then relocate if you would prefer her to sleep elsewhere. I have a rescue pup and it took him a couple months of being glued to my side before he felt secure enough to be on his own. I started with five minutes alone and worked up from there. I used a crate for about 5 months, then taught him to associate just his bed with 'safe place'. I never punish him by sending him to his crate / bed, because I want him to only have positive associations with it. So now when I leave, he lays down on his bed and doesn't get anxious at all.
posted by ananci at 4:43 PM on March 31, 2016
So the thing about getting her when she cries - you just need to wait until she's stopped crying, give it a few minutes, then go get her. If that never happens, you are leaving her alone too long.
It's important to note also that dogs are never going to /like/ being alone away from you. There is literally nothing you can give them that they will think is better than you. You're not trying to teach them to be happy about being alone - you're trying to teach them to tolerate it when they have to.
posted by corb at 5:40 PM on March 31, 2016
It's important to note also that dogs are never going to /like/ being alone away from you. There is literally nothing you can give them that they will think is better than you. You're not trying to teach them to be happy about being alone - you're trying to teach them to tolerate it when they have to.
posted by corb at 5:40 PM on March 31, 2016
A puppy that little can't hold it through the night. You don't want to get the puppy used to urinating in the crate. Right now you may have to get up to take her out at 2 am, for example, but try to gradually extend that time as she gets older. Eventually she will be able to hold it though the night.
posted by Ostara at 7:56 PM on March 31, 2016
posted by Ostara at 7:56 PM on March 31, 2016
When my dog was that age he used to scream for hours if you left him alone at night. I asked the vet if that was normal and if it was okay to leave him alone, and she said, super-offhanded, "oh yeah, it's dark and he's scared, he wants his mother to come get him." (I am definitely a grownass lady and definitely did not almost burst into tears at that one.)
But yeah, we knew we planned to crate him long-term, so for me it was pretty much patience and consistent rewards, and eventually everybody got used to things and he settled down. And when he was a little older and I had a job that meant I got home at two or three in the morning, he got a special middle-of-the-night playtime and then was cool going right back to sleep.
posted by jameaterblues at 8:00 PM on March 31, 2016
But yeah, we knew we planned to crate him long-term, so for me it was pretty much patience and consistent rewards, and eventually everybody got used to things and he settled down. And when he was a little older and I had a job that meant I got home at two or three in the morning, he got a special middle-of-the-night playtime and then was cool going right back to sleep.
posted by jameaterblues at 8:00 PM on March 31, 2016
Response by poster: Thank you all for your input. I guess I was looking for permission to let her sleep in my daughter's room - out of the crate for now. So far tonight she seems content. I've ordered the heartbeat pillow and will use that to contain her in the crate when it arrives in a couple of days. I won't mark favourites as I'll be trying the various suggestions as needed.
posted by Dragonness at 10:39 PM on March 31, 2016
posted by Dragonness at 10:39 PM on March 31, 2016
This is not much different from the disagreements about what to do with babies that cry at night. You have to decide for yourself what works best for you. Anybody who tells you that you must do this or that doesn't understand that this is your own personal choice and only you can decide what's the right answer for you.
posted by OCDan at 12:12 AM on April 1, 2016
posted by OCDan at 12:12 AM on April 1, 2016
When my dog was too young (and un-potty trained) to sleep in the bed, I got a small travel size crate and put it right by the head of my bed. She was close enough to smell me, and I could put my fingers through the grate and comfort her when she got lonely. Don't forget, she's probably literally never been alone in her short life before, always surrounded by the warmth and smells of her mother and littermates. Think how terrifying it must be to suddenly be all alone.
posted by catatethebird at 8:25 AM on April 1, 2016
posted by catatethebird at 8:25 AM on April 1, 2016
I have a cute little black pug. I didn't see the pug through puppy hood, but now pay the consequences. It's good to let the puppy learn to sleep alone, to learn to self sooth. Mine didn't learn these things, and as a result, she is super-attached. If she's not near us, she's whining. If she isn't sleeping in our bed, she's crying. I recommend that you balance the cuddles with the independence.
posted by hydra77 at 8:27 AM on April 1, 2016
posted by hydra77 at 8:27 AM on April 1, 2016
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posted by cecic at 11:10 AM on March 31, 2016 [2 favorites]