Tell me a story of rekindling romance in a long term relationship?
March 21, 2016 1:43 PM Subscribe
We've been together for over ten years, and we started out with the normal amount of crazy making out and new relationship energy. Our intimacy (by which I mostly mean sex and physical affection, but some in other ways, too) faded over time, though, despite some effort to beat the fade-out back. I'd really like to hear from people who have had a similar problem and have worked through it to have a close, at least moderately sexually active marriage.
We finally, after having our kids and watching it get worse, started relationship therapy. It seems to have helped some, but not too long ago we finally started discussing aloud the the big, ugly elephant in the room: I am way more into my partner than my partner is into me. Their feelings of attraction to me faded much more than mine ever have, and it's a painful imbalance.
However, we are very much best friends, and we are both very much dedicated to working on this. This year is sort of our Year of the Marriage, on both parts, and we are trying. We go to therapy. We spend time together. We've had more sex at this point in the year than we had possibly all of last year. Divorce has never been on the table, for what it's worth, though I am sane enough to know that in the long term, nothing is off the table. We work well as a team, and always have, and have similar beliefs about commitment and about life in general that mean that in many ways we ARE great together.
My big problem, the reason I am posting this, is that I obsess and I prod and I must, must, must stop. I have to be patient and give this time. I am in danger of beating the relationship to death by constantly wanting to talk about it. I do this because I freak out, I spiral into a big sobbing fit about the relationship, positive that there's just no recovery, and then I either rope my partner into a conversation about it intentionally or they notice that I'm a wreck and want to talk (which feels pretty similar, to be honest, but I am not all that great at hiding my feelings). It hurts a lot to have the actual knowledge, rather than the suspicion, that my partner isn't very attracted to me and hasn't been for a long time. They say, and I believe, that attraction is a fuzzy thing, and that I make it black and white, and I think that they are right, but that doesn't make it easy for me when I get myself worked up into a tizzy about it.
What I want from you is not so much relationship advice (...you'd have very little to go on for that), but reassurance that relationships can recover after faded-out intimacy, that someone can become attracted again when that attraction has faded. I want something to come and read whenever I start getting freaked out, or I want to know that it's probably not going to happen and that we need to start coming up with a contingency plan of some sort.
Help?
We finally, after having our kids and watching it get worse, started relationship therapy. It seems to have helped some, but not too long ago we finally started discussing aloud the the big, ugly elephant in the room: I am way more into my partner than my partner is into me. Their feelings of attraction to me faded much more than mine ever have, and it's a painful imbalance.
However, we are very much best friends, and we are both very much dedicated to working on this. This year is sort of our Year of the Marriage, on both parts, and we are trying. We go to therapy. We spend time together. We've had more sex at this point in the year than we had possibly all of last year. Divorce has never been on the table, for what it's worth, though I am sane enough to know that in the long term, nothing is off the table. We work well as a team, and always have, and have similar beliefs about commitment and about life in general that mean that in many ways we ARE great together.
My big problem, the reason I am posting this, is that I obsess and I prod and I must, must, must stop. I have to be patient and give this time. I am in danger of beating the relationship to death by constantly wanting to talk about it. I do this because I freak out, I spiral into a big sobbing fit about the relationship, positive that there's just no recovery, and then I either rope my partner into a conversation about it intentionally or they notice that I'm a wreck and want to talk (which feels pretty similar, to be honest, but I am not all that great at hiding my feelings). It hurts a lot to have the actual knowledge, rather than the suspicion, that my partner isn't very attracted to me and hasn't been for a long time. They say, and I believe, that attraction is a fuzzy thing, and that I make it black and white, and I think that they are right, but that doesn't make it easy for me when I get myself worked up into a tizzy about it.
What I want from you is not so much relationship advice (...you'd have very little to go on for that), but reassurance that relationships can recover after faded-out intimacy, that someone can become attracted again when that attraction has faded. I want something to come and read whenever I start getting freaked out, or I want to know that it's probably not going to happen and that we need to start coming up with a contingency plan of some sort.
Help?
That is what these two books are made for -- rekindling interest. Also, the very format of the books requires one partner to be patient, so it will be a good practice for you. Both are geared toward heterosexual couples, so apologies if that's not your orientation.
posted by janey47 at 1:51 PM on March 21, 2016
posted by janey47 at 1:51 PM on March 21, 2016
I'm so sorry. That's a crappy bunch of feels right there.
If your partner *wants* to work on this, yes, absolutely, they can get to that place of attraction with you again. My ex-husband and I went through many ups and downs, but making a conscious decision to fall in love with one another again and again is what kept our marriage strong. In the end it wasn't lack of attraction or sex that split us up, it was a bunch of other stuff I won't go into.
I had periods where I wasn't as attracted to him and vice-versa. I noticed these coincided with periods of anxiety and lack of self-confidence. When we had those things, we were more attracted to the other. I know that's an awful catch-22, but it seemed to be true, at least for us.
Spending more intimate time together, really focusing on what we like about the other person, all these things helped a lot for both of us. We started practicing tantra, and made a commitment to get in better shape.
If your partner is not willing to do these things. . . I will hesitantly put forth the idea that you open up your marriage. I know that seems like a huge step, but it's only as weird or out-there as you make it. Dan Savage talks a lot about this, if you want to look through his writing. You deserve to be seen, honored, and admired by others. If your partner can't fulfill that for you, consider the possibility that others could. Ironically, many people find that once they start getting these things addressed outside the marriage, the partnership and even the attraction between the two people becomes stronger. We tried this once for a couple years, and it brought us closer than anything else.
Best of luck.
posted by ananci at 2:17 PM on March 21, 2016
If your partner *wants* to work on this, yes, absolutely, they can get to that place of attraction with you again. My ex-husband and I went through many ups and downs, but making a conscious decision to fall in love with one another again and again is what kept our marriage strong. In the end it wasn't lack of attraction or sex that split us up, it was a bunch of other stuff I won't go into.
I had periods where I wasn't as attracted to him and vice-versa. I noticed these coincided with periods of anxiety and lack of self-confidence. When we had those things, we were more attracted to the other. I know that's an awful catch-22, but it seemed to be true, at least for us.
Spending more intimate time together, really focusing on what we like about the other person, all these things helped a lot for both of us. We started practicing tantra, and made a commitment to get in better shape.
If your partner is not willing to do these things. . . I will hesitantly put forth the idea that you open up your marriage. I know that seems like a huge step, but it's only as weird or out-there as you make it. Dan Savage talks a lot about this, if you want to look through his writing. You deserve to be seen, honored, and admired by others. If your partner can't fulfill that for you, consider the possibility that others could. Ironically, many people find that once they start getting these things addressed outside the marriage, the partnership and even the attraction between the two people becomes stronger. We tried this once for a couple years, and it brought us closer than anything else.
Best of luck.
posted by ananci at 2:17 PM on March 21, 2016
My partner and I have been together 23 years. We've been through mental health crises, gender transition, the arrival of three babies, my long struggle with chronic pain... there have been sadly long periods of time with no, or with infrequent, sex for us.
A few years ago, he took me out to coffee to talk about the issue. He had identified our problem—he had a diagram—which is a variation on the usual kind of challenges when partners have different sex drives. What would happen for us is that we'd have sex, and it would be great (the quality of our sex was always epic). We'd have sex again the next night. Great! Maybe a third night. Woo-hoo!
Now, for me, at this point, I'm like, "Oh, hey, that was some good sex. I feel satiated." For him, though, the more sex he has, the more sex he wants. So on Night Four (or whatever) we would find ourselves once again in the uncomfortable position of having different wishes.
Extra complication: I have a history of being the less-sexual partner in relationships, and it's stressful. He, on the other hand, is pretty much up for sex any time. In addition, physical intimacy is a major way he feels loved and secure, so, when we were young, it was sometimes hard for him to hear me say no, so there was this residual fear for me that if I said no, he'd get upset. Rock and a hard place, right?
We figured out that:
1. I needed to know that it was OK to say No to sex. That I was still valued and loved if I didn't want to have sex.
2. He needed to know that it was OK to want sex, and that I valued and loved him even if I didn't want to have sex.
At that coffee date, we decided that we would take showers and go to bed together at 10:00 every night. Just to spend some time together. And we agreed that we would be there together and deal with any emotions that came up. So, if I was feeling tense and anxious, he would reassure me that it was OK not to be in the mood for sex. And, in turn, I would reassure him that, even if I didn't want sex right now, I really valued his sex drive (this turned out to be true, once I started talking about it). I told him that his high sex drive was like a wedge keeping the door open just a little bit, always holding the possibility of sex even during times when we weren't having it for whatever reason.
What ended up happening is that, as we got into bed, freshly showered, I would say, "I don't think I want to have sex tonight." And he would say, "That's OK," and do the whole reassuring thing. And then, as soon as I really felt that it was OK not to want to have sex, to say no to sex even if he wanted it, I would end up having sex with him.
I needed to feel really sure that it was OK to say No. And once I did, I discovered that I was pretty interested in sex myself.
We had sex every night for, like, a year and a half. It just kept getting better and better. All our old issues and fears and hurt feelings healed and faded away. It was quite glorious.
We didn't set out to have sex every night. Just to be in bed together, clean and naked, every night. And we learned how to have sex while respecting our differences.
Life, of course, happened to us eventually: my chronic pain flared up, the kids have needs (darn kids and their needs), and so on. We no longer have sex every night. Sometimes, when I'm not well, we don't have sex for weeks. But since the year-and-a-half of taking care of each other emotionally, asserting over and over that it is OK to want sex and it is OK not to want sex, we move back and forth much more easily between the times when we are and the times when we aren't.
Just now, I'm in a long period of increased pain and fatigue. I think we've had sex once since the new year. I did ask him to reassure me that old stresses weren't re-emerging, because I started worrying that he wasn't happy, and that we'd get back to this uncomfortable place where it was like a thing again. He was very reassuring. There was cuddling. It was good.
The short version:
1. My partner did a great job of putting into words what the underlying problems were.
2. We made a commitment to not be afraid of the emotions that came up for both of us around sex, but to help each other through them.
3. We made a commitment to be alone together every night for awhile.
4. We put a lot of effort into affirming each other's sexual energy, level of sex drive, and personal style. Instead of feeling his high sex drive as pressure, I began to see it as an asset of our relationship, for instance.
I don't have any idea how our process might scale to other people's relationships. But I am here to tell you that, in our late forties, my partner and I not only had a long stretch of the most frequent and best sex of our lives, but we also fell in love all over again. Limerence and I-can't-stop-thinking-about-you; the whole nine yards. Now we're back to a mellower state but hoo boy the happy memories, and also: hoo boy the renewed trust, appreciation, and intimacy.
posted by not that girl at 2:22 PM on March 21, 2016 [118 favorites]
A few years ago, he took me out to coffee to talk about the issue. He had identified our problem—he had a diagram—which is a variation on the usual kind of challenges when partners have different sex drives. What would happen for us is that we'd have sex, and it would be great (the quality of our sex was always epic). We'd have sex again the next night. Great! Maybe a third night. Woo-hoo!
Now, for me, at this point, I'm like, "Oh, hey, that was some good sex. I feel satiated." For him, though, the more sex he has, the more sex he wants. So on Night Four (or whatever) we would find ourselves once again in the uncomfortable position of having different wishes.
Extra complication: I have a history of being the less-sexual partner in relationships, and it's stressful. He, on the other hand, is pretty much up for sex any time. In addition, physical intimacy is a major way he feels loved and secure, so, when we were young, it was sometimes hard for him to hear me say no, so there was this residual fear for me that if I said no, he'd get upset. Rock and a hard place, right?
We figured out that:
1. I needed to know that it was OK to say No to sex. That I was still valued and loved if I didn't want to have sex.
2. He needed to know that it was OK to want sex, and that I valued and loved him even if I didn't want to have sex.
At that coffee date, we decided that we would take showers and go to bed together at 10:00 every night. Just to spend some time together. And we agreed that we would be there together and deal with any emotions that came up. So, if I was feeling tense and anxious, he would reassure me that it was OK not to be in the mood for sex. And, in turn, I would reassure him that, even if I didn't want sex right now, I really valued his sex drive (this turned out to be true, once I started talking about it). I told him that his high sex drive was like a wedge keeping the door open just a little bit, always holding the possibility of sex even during times when we weren't having it for whatever reason.
What ended up happening is that, as we got into bed, freshly showered, I would say, "I don't think I want to have sex tonight." And he would say, "That's OK," and do the whole reassuring thing. And then, as soon as I really felt that it was OK not to want to have sex, to say no to sex even if he wanted it, I would end up having sex with him.
I needed to feel really sure that it was OK to say No. And once I did, I discovered that I was pretty interested in sex myself.
We had sex every night for, like, a year and a half. It just kept getting better and better. All our old issues and fears and hurt feelings healed and faded away. It was quite glorious.
We didn't set out to have sex every night. Just to be in bed together, clean and naked, every night. And we learned how to have sex while respecting our differences.
Life, of course, happened to us eventually: my chronic pain flared up, the kids have needs (darn kids and their needs), and so on. We no longer have sex every night. Sometimes, when I'm not well, we don't have sex for weeks. But since the year-and-a-half of taking care of each other emotionally, asserting over and over that it is OK to want sex and it is OK not to want sex, we move back and forth much more easily between the times when we are and the times when we aren't.
Just now, I'm in a long period of increased pain and fatigue. I think we've had sex once since the new year. I did ask him to reassure me that old stresses weren't re-emerging, because I started worrying that he wasn't happy, and that we'd get back to this uncomfortable place where it was like a thing again. He was very reassuring. There was cuddling. It was good.
The short version:
1. My partner did a great job of putting into words what the underlying problems were.
2. We made a commitment to not be afraid of the emotions that came up for both of us around sex, but to help each other through them.
3. We made a commitment to be alone together every night for awhile.
4. We put a lot of effort into affirming each other's sexual energy, level of sex drive, and personal style. Instead of feeling his high sex drive as pressure, I began to see it as an asset of our relationship, for instance.
I don't have any idea how our process might scale to other people's relationships. But I am here to tell you that, in our late forties, my partner and I not only had a long stretch of the most frequent and best sex of our lives, but we also fell in love all over again. Limerence and I-can't-stop-thinking-about-you; the whole nine yards. Now we're back to a mellower state but hoo boy the happy memories, and also: hoo boy the renewed trust, appreciation, and intimacy.
posted by not that girl at 2:22 PM on March 21, 2016 [118 favorites]
I am in danger of beating the relationship to death by constantly wanting to talk about it. I do this because I freak out, I spiral into a big sobbing fit about the relationship, positive that there's just no recovery, and then I either rope my partner into a conversation about it intentionally or they notice that I'm a wreck and want to talk
There's a difference between a conversation that stems from both parties being ready to talk, and one that originates in one partner's anxiety (and the other partner getting "roped in"), and I know that you get that. You have identified those moments for us here, and I will gently, gently ask you to call someone you trust and process that anxiety with them, or turn to your journal, anything to divert that self-punishing scab-picking away from a compelled conversation. This problem is so. damn. hard. Yes, you need to talk about it. And I think saucysault is spot-on about you needing an individual counselor, for relieving those pressured moments when it isn't the right time or place or set of circumstances. Maybe having that third-party safety valve would help you bring a healthier context to talking about the problem. It sounds like you know how perilous your tightrope feels, and I think that you, individually, need some extra help figuring it out. You deserve that help. I know it feels scary to ask for it, but you've already done the really scary thing of talking about that elephant in the room. Now it's time to get to a better, calmer, healthier place in your own head and heart so you can figure out how to move forward. If you need to hear that this problem is hard, and nerve-wracking--yes, yes it is, and you are not lesser for being in this situation, or for reaching out. I hope you work through it successfully.
Also, all props to you for being brave enough to ask here. Going the anon route can make you feel vulnerable, and I hope I haven't said anything that makes you feel bad. You're in a difficult situation. I'm rooting for you.
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:25 PM on March 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
There's a difference between a conversation that stems from both parties being ready to talk, and one that originates in one partner's anxiety (and the other partner getting "roped in"), and I know that you get that. You have identified those moments for us here, and I will gently, gently ask you to call someone you trust and process that anxiety with them, or turn to your journal, anything to divert that self-punishing scab-picking away from a compelled conversation. This problem is so. damn. hard. Yes, you need to talk about it. And I think saucysault is spot-on about you needing an individual counselor, for relieving those pressured moments when it isn't the right time or place or set of circumstances. Maybe having that third-party safety valve would help you bring a healthier context to talking about the problem. It sounds like you know how perilous your tightrope feels, and I think that you, individually, need some extra help figuring it out. You deserve that help. I know it feels scary to ask for it, but you've already done the really scary thing of talking about that elephant in the room. Now it's time to get to a better, calmer, healthier place in your own head and heart so you can figure out how to move forward. If you need to hear that this problem is hard, and nerve-wracking--yes, yes it is, and you are not lesser for being in this situation, or for reaching out. I hope you work through it successfully.
Also, all props to you for being brave enough to ask here. Going the anon route can make you feel vulnerable, and I hope I haven't said anything that makes you feel bad. You're in a difficult situation. I'm rooting for you.
posted by MonkeyToes at 2:25 PM on March 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
So what if the relationship is over? I mean, yes, it would be terrible and feel awful. But you will survive. You will rebuild. And if it turns out your partner cannot rekindle their attraction for you, you can find someone who is attracted to you.
I realize you may really, really not want to hear this, but I don't think continuing "denial denial denial" and delaying thinking about it is working for you anymore. So just face the harsh truth and take a deep breath and accept it, and come out on the other side. Also, be a little more angry on your own behalf! I get needing to understand and soothe your partner, but make sure you aren't accidentally being a doormat and "understanding why they need to be mean to you" you know?
The other thing to keep in mind is that you are only hurting your chances. Being needy and clingy is not going to make your partner more attracted to you. Being strong and confident, a little distant and mysterious, is about 100x more likely to make your partner more attracted to you.
So to handle the anxiety? Just tell yourself. "Listen, self- A, I am confident you will deal with this and survive should the relationship end, but it hasn't yet, so cross that bridge when you come to it. And B, you are being counterproductive right now in solving this problem."
Also, one more thing- you sound like you are in a limbo right now, dealing with the anxiety of not knowing the future. Do you have a time limit on therapy? Any goalposts? Have you prepared for all outcomes?
posted by quincunx at 2:40 PM on March 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I realize you may really, really not want to hear this, but I don't think continuing "denial denial denial" and delaying thinking about it is working for you anymore. So just face the harsh truth and take a deep breath and accept it, and come out on the other side. Also, be a little more angry on your own behalf! I get needing to understand and soothe your partner, but make sure you aren't accidentally being a doormat and "understanding why they need to be mean to you" you know?
The other thing to keep in mind is that you are only hurting your chances. Being needy and clingy is not going to make your partner more attracted to you. Being strong and confident, a little distant and mysterious, is about 100x more likely to make your partner more attracted to you.
So to handle the anxiety? Just tell yourself. "Listen, self- A, I am confident you will deal with this and survive should the relationship end, but it hasn't yet, so cross that bridge when you come to it. And B, you are being counterproductive right now in solving this problem."
Also, one more thing- you sound like you are in a limbo right now, dealing with the anxiety of not knowing the future. Do you have a time limit on therapy? Any goalposts? Have you prepared for all outcomes?
posted by quincunx at 2:40 PM on March 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think you have great advice for the thinking part but what's worked for my husband and I in our 21 year marriage is taking action by doing something new together, preferably physically. Like kayaking. Yoga. Hiking. Or something from our bucket lists.
It seems to supercharge the old feelings. Best thing is, we just sign up and show up.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:04 PM on March 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
It seems to supercharge the old feelings. Best thing is, we just sign up and show up.
posted by warriorqueen at 3:04 PM on March 21, 2016 [8 favorites]
Please read Hold Me Tight. If your couples therapist isn't attachment-based, consider switching to one who is.
posted by Violet Hour at 3:35 PM on March 21, 2016
posted by Violet Hour at 3:35 PM on March 21, 2016
FWIW, here's a TED talk that might be relevant. She doesn't give advice per se, but seems to arguing in favour of some of the ideas in this thread.
posted by miorita at 4:42 PM on March 21, 2016
posted by miorita at 4:42 PM on March 21, 2016
Is it possible that the more you want your partner, the more that turns your partner off? I think in cases where you feel more attracted, more attached, it's possible to have that feel needy to the other person, to make them feel as though loving you and being attracted to you and having sex with you is an obligation, not a desire. I ask because of the pushiness you mention. I'm similar, in many ways, and though it kind of kills me (and is hard, hard, hard) to withdraw and be "cool," it's useful to us both for me to be involved in my own life and be confident in my own things and to not be so dependent. So maybe a bit of both the "getting back into each other" but also some of the "getting your own groove back." It helps to think to who you were when you met, and how you were attractive to your partner.
posted by mrfuga0 at 7:08 PM on March 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by mrfuga0 at 7:08 PM on March 21, 2016 [2 favorites]
Well, not I'm not currently married, but my partner and I have had six years of great sex and tremendous arguing (two assertive, loud, obnoxious, horny Type A people) in an unconventional friendship/relationship. A few years of friendship before we even got into the thing whatever it happens to be this week.
I am definitely the more anxious, neurotic, pushy, and fawning-over of the two of us, coupled with a much stronger libido (age difference and the fact that I am a super-horndog). When I'm going through periods of severe life anxiety, it spills over into the relationship and drives him up a wall. Hell, we even had an argument in November where we almost split because he was saying he wasn't sure if he wanted to end up with me (and that still may be the case) and that he didn't have the same feelings for me that he used to have - but that he didn't know if that was permanent. I was going through some hard family stuff and all over the medication front and I was hot and cold with him and passive-agressive and angry because I felt he'd shut me out and I wasn't getting the attention I felt I needed. He was embarrassed about his behavior being less than stellar and lashed out at me because he'd felt like a heel. Caveat: I'm in individual therapy and have been for myriad issues, and my therapist and I talk about my situation a lot, so that eases some of my anxiety.
What has worked for us, as we've been down a pretty good road for the past few months, was for us to argue about opening the relationship (a hard No for him), and then discussing what we expected from each other, without trying to put too much pressure on either partner. We also have a time limit: we've been together six years, and we're going to reassess at 7, but things don't look great for personal reasons for each of us, which sucks, but I made the promise to him that our last year together was going to be the best. And he thought that was a wonderful idea and agreed to work towards said goal as well. About a month and a half ago, he said "you know, you haven't been the most pleasant person to be around for the past few months, but you're starting to seem like your old self again; loud and obnoxious and confident and happy, and that's the Sara I really like and have always liked a lot!" And he's been giving me compliments left and right and we're really working towards making this last go-round just plain awesome, and it's not the limerance I felt at the very beginning, but I'm so much happier and more comfortable than I have been in a very long time, and he seems to feel that way too; I feel like I have my sexy best friend back, and it's great. We try to avoid talking about the future because it's not the outcome we'd have hoped for, but we want the best of now for now.
Hell, idk if this helps at all or not, but it seems that if one partner lets go a little, and the other partner steps up to the plate, a happy medium can be reached. Best of luck to you both.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 7:37 PM on March 21, 2016
I am definitely the more anxious, neurotic, pushy, and fawning-over of the two of us, coupled with a much stronger libido (age difference and the fact that I am a super-horndog). When I'm going through periods of severe life anxiety, it spills over into the relationship and drives him up a wall. Hell, we even had an argument in November where we almost split because he was saying he wasn't sure if he wanted to end up with me (and that still may be the case) and that he didn't have the same feelings for me that he used to have - but that he didn't know if that was permanent. I was going through some hard family stuff and all over the medication front and I was hot and cold with him and passive-agressive and angry because I felt he'd shut me out and I wasn't getting the attention I felt I needed. He was embarrassed about his behavior being less than stellar and lashed out at me because he'd felt like a heel. Caveat: I'm in individual therapy and have been for myriad issues, and my therapist and I talk about my situation a lot, so that eases some of my anxiety.
What has worked for us, as we've been down a pretty good road for the past few months, was for us to argue about opening the relationship (a hard No for him), and then discussing what we expected from each other, without trying to put too much pressure on either partner. We also have a time limit: we've been together six years, and we're going to reassess at 7, but things don't look great for personal reasons for each of us, which sucks, but I made the promise to him that our last year together was going to be the best. And he thought that was a wonderful idea and agreed to work towards said goal as well. About a month and a half ago, he said "you know, you haven't been the most pleasant person to be around for the past few months, but you're starting to seem like your old self again; loud and obnoxious and confident and happy, and that's the Sara I really like and have always liked a lot!" And he's been giving me compliments left and right and we're really working towards making this last go-round just plain awesome, and it's not the limerance I felt at the very beginning, but I'm so much happier and more comfortable than I have been in a very long time, and he seems to feel that way too; I feel like I have my sexy best friend back, and it's great. We try to avoid talking about the future because it's not the outcome we'd have hoped for, but we want the best of now for now.
Hell, idk if this helps at all or not, but it seems that if one partner lets go a little, and the other partner steps up to the plate, a happy medium can be reached. Best of luck to you both.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 7:37 PM on March 21, 2016
If you aren't willing to get a divorce, and he can't feel as strongly for you as you *deserve* to have him feel, then I think you need to discuss opening up the relationship, so you can have a chance of getting your needs met.
I agree that you're sounding pretty doormatty right now, but in a committed LTR that involves kids, you shouldn't have to be aloof and play hard to get to rekindle the spark. That's a dating game. He's frankly being an asshole by wanting you to stay in an exclusive relationship where you don't feel valued and attractive. If he can't meet your basic emotional needs, he must stop expecting you to solely look to him to have those needs met.
Totally agree that you need to get more indignant on your own behalf here. You're tolerating the intolerable.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 9:20 PM on March 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
I agree that you're sounding pretty doormatty right now, but in a committed LTR that involves kids, you shouldn't have to be aloof and play hard to get to rekindle the spark. That's a dating game. He's frankly being an asshole by wanting you to stay in an exclusive relationship where you don't feel valued and attractive. If he can't meet your basic emotional needs, he must stop expecting you to solely look to him to have those needs met.
Totally agree that you need to get more indignant on your own behalf here. You're tolerating the intolerable.
posted by mysterious_stranger at 9:20 PM on March 21, 2016 [1 favorite]
My SO and I have had a couple of stages where things started becoming more "best friends" than "romantic partners". We have been married for 7 years, together for 10. We have so far overcome these lows and come out stronger than ever.
The first thing that helped a lot was the realization that the daily grind was falling disproportionately on me (female). I could not be mother/maid/house administrator and sexy wife at night. My husband now does a ton of the housework (I would say actually more than I do - since we are focusing on him learning to run our home). The sudden relief from the mental stress of having to juggle all these aspects of our life significantly strengthened the romantic aspect of our relationship.
More recently, another thing that helped was a trend to enrich our own inner lives. We both started to pursue hobbies and things that did not necessarily involve each other, and now we actively seek to make sure we have our own developed selves so we can share them with each other. If you tend to do everything together, you might reach a stage where you just do everything together by default. This gets comfortable but eventually you might take each other for granted. The result of this new effort is that when we do things together, the intensity and excitement at being with each other is the same as it was years ago, when we weren't a default feature in each other's lives. Of course this doesn't mean you sacrifice reliability or become detached. It's all about balance.
Now these are things we did because we both wanted to recover our romantic relationship, and the issues were mostly external distractions from a romance that WAS there and was just being stifled by life. If there is a chance that your SO is still attracted to you, only doesn't feel so because of stress, routine, whatever, then of course you guys can save things, if you work TOGETHER. If however your SOs attraction to you is not there because they just simply don't feel it anymore, then as heartbreaking as it is, I think the romantic side of your relationship is over.
But most importantly, your SO may not owe you attraction, but they do owe you honesty, respect, and the will to try their best at keeping the romance alive. So while you can assist in this process, they need to do some soul searching and figure out what is behind this lack of attraction. From that point you guys can work on a plan to either restore it if it's still there, or to set you free from a miserable relationship that is no longer romantic. The burden to figure things out is on your SO.
posted by Tarumba at 6:04 AM on March 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
The first thing that helped a lot was the realization that the daily grind was falling disproportionately on me (female). I could not be mother/maid/house administrator and sexy wife at night. My husband now does a ton of the housework (I would say actually more than I do - since we are focusing on him learning to run our home). The sudden relief from the mental stress of having to juggle all these aspects of our life significantly strengthened the romantic aspect of our relationship.
More recently, another thing that helped was a trend to enrich our own inner lives. We both started to pursue hobbies and things that did not necessarily involve each other, and now we actively seek to make sure we have our own developed selves so we can share them with each other. If you tend to do everything together, you might reach a stage where you just do everything together by default. This gets comfortable but eventually you might take each other for granted. The result of this new effort is that when we do things together, the intensity and excitement at being with each other is the same as it was years ago, when we weren't a default feature in each other's lives. Of course this doesn't mean you sacrifice reliability or become detached. It's all about balance.
Now these are things we did because we both wanted to recover our romantic relationship, and the issues were mostly external distractions from a romance that WAS there and was just being stifled by life. If there is a chance that your SO is still attracted to you, only doesn't feel so because of stress, routine, whatever, then of course you guys can save things, if you work TOGETHER. If however your SOs attraction to you is not there because they just simply don't feel it anymore, then as heartbreaking as it is, I think the romantic side of your relationship is over.
But most importantly, your SO may not owe you attraction, but they do owe you honesty, respect, and the will to try their best at keeping the romance alive. So while you can assist in this process, they need to do some soul searching and figure out what is behind this lack of attraction. From that point you guys can work on a plan to either restore it if it's still there, or to set you free from a miserable relationship that is no longer romantic. The burden to figure things out is on your SO.
posted by Tarumba at 6:04 AM on March 22, 2016 [5 favorites]
Long before I was ever in a committed relationship, I read a novel (The Sparrow) in which two characters have been married for something like forty years. The author, Mary Doria Russell, has also been married for about as long, so it read very much like wisdom masquerading as a character study.
One of the characters, Anne, is talking to a younger friend. The friend marvels that marriages can last 40 years, a happy 40 years at that. Anne says, paraphrasing, look, kid, what you see on the surface is the product of a lot of attention and care over the years. People change over time, and those changes add up, so every ten years or so we've had to ask ourselves, are we still the people we want to be together? Our loving feelings for each other have shepherded us through those times, because god knows that romance isn't always there to do the job and tempers, mistakes, crises of faith, all of those things can do a pretty good job of making you forget or even resent that those loving feelings ever existed. Sometimes you have nothing but the awareness that you're capable of those loving feelings, and if you're able to make decisions based on your confidence in those loving feelings--even when you don't feel them--then you might be able to make a 40 year marriage that can carry you through in return.
I must have been 18 or so when I first read that book, and even then it resonated with me (I'm traveling or otherwise I'd share the passage with you). Now, 20 years later and 8 years in to a wonderful, trying, fulfilling, complicated relationship (with stepkids), I honestly think about what Anne said on an almost weekly basis. It still strikes me as wisdom, instructive wisdom. "This too shall pass" meets "and we can still be here when it does." It's an assertion that relationships require confidence, and our roles include needing to cultivate that confidence. It sounds like you two are giving much-needed attention to cultivating that confidence. It sounds like you, though, want to do some personal confidence-building, not necessarily something that your partner has to join in on. Am I reading that right?
If so, check out The Sparrow from the library and see if you get the feel I get from it. But I'd also encourage you to give yourself some personal attention. You're worried right now, and worry is a gnawing, distracting task. I'm a worrier, too (when I get anxious, I get jealous). I've had to spend time getting a handle on that jealousy/anxiety over the years--not entirely successfully, but in the process I've learned more about my needs and wants and how to distinguish them. Like you, I need to feel attractive to my partner, but I also want to feel attractive to myself. The latter is not a requirement of my daily existence, but I know now for certain that if I feel attractive, I project attractiveness to others. So I've ended up getting mildly into fitness over the last 4 or so years--jogging (Couch to 5K was a boon), hiking, that sort of thing. I, too, have a chronic health issue (Crohn's disease) which has permanently left a mark on my psychological ability to feel sexy, and I've also gotten good about talking with my partner about it--without embarrassment or anxiety--and that feat took years of hard work. Focusing on my healthful states rather than my disease, through fitness and attention to my mind and body, has been really helpful with that.
Lastly, I don't understand comments like the one left by mysterious stranger. How can we say that we "deserve" to have someone else desire us as strongly as we want them to? Is that possible? I mean, can humans exert explicit control over their innate affinities? It's a measure too far, and it seems like it's one that's destined to lead to a lack of fulfillment. I don't know that I can endorse the idea that we need to find our exact match in terms of desire, because I don't think that's possible to assess much less satisfy. A different goal is to recognize that no two people will ever have exactly the same feelings for one another, and that's fine. We can process that information, which itself is kind of an esoteric, abstract thing to do, and move on to the tangible realities of living with someone.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 6:17 AM on March 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
One of the characters, Anne, is talking to a younger friend. The friend marvels that marriages can last 40 years, a happy 40 years at that. Anne says, paraphrasing, look, kid, what you see on the surface is the product of a lot of attention and care over the years. People change over time, and those changes add up, so every ten years or so we've had to ask ourselves, are we still the people we want to be together? Our loving feelings for each other have shepherded us through those times, because god knows that romance isn't always there to do the job and tempers, mistakes, crises of faith, all of those things can do a pretty good job of making you forget or even resent that those loving feelings ever existed. Sometimes you have nothing but the awareness that you're capable of those loving feelings, and if you're able to make decisions based on your confidence in those loving feelings--even when you don't feel them--then you might be able to make a 40 year marriage that can carry you through in return.
I must have been 18 or so when I first read that book, and even then it resonated with me (I'm traveling or otherwise I'd share the passage with you). Now, 20 years later and 8 years in to a wonderful, trying, fulfilling, complicated relationship (with stepkids), I honestly think about what Anne said on an almost weekly basis. It still strikes me as wisdom, instructive wisdom. "This too shall pass" meets "and we can still be here when it does." It's an assertion that relationships require confidence, and our roles include needing to cultivate that confidence. It sounds like you two are giving much-needed attention to cultivating that confidence. It sounds like you, though, want to do some personal confidence-building, not necessarily something that your partner has to join in on. Am I reading that right?
If so, check out The Sparrow from the library and see if you get the feel I get from it. But I'd also encourage you to give yourself some personal attention. You're worried right now, and worry is a gnawing, distracting task. I'm a worrier, too (when I get anxious, I get jealous). I've had to spend time getting a handle on that jealousy/anxiety over the years--not entirely successfully, but in the process I've learned more about my needs and wants and how to distinguish them. Like you, I need to feel attractive to my partner, but I also want to feel attractive to myself. The latter is not a requirement of my daily existence, but I know now for certain that if I feel attractive, I project attractiveness to others. So I've ended up getting mildly into fitness over the last 4 or so years--jogging (Couch to 5K was a boon), hiking, that sort of thing. I, too, have a chronic health issue (Crohn's disease) which has permanently left a mark on my psychological ability to feel sexy, and I've also gotten good about talking with my partner about it--without embarrassment or anxiety--and that feat took years of hard work. Focusing on my healthful states rather than my disease, through fitness and attention to my mind and body, has been really helpful with that.
Lastly, I don't understand comments like the one left by mysterious stranger. How can we say that we "deserve" to have someone else desire us as strongly as we want them to? Is that possible? I mean, can humans exert explicit control over their innate affinities? It's a measure too far, and it seems like it's one that's destined to lead to a lack of fulfillment. I don't know that I can endorse the idea that we need to find our exact match in terms of desire, because I don't think that's possible to assess much less satisfy. A different goal is to recognize that no two people will ever have exactly the same feelings for one another, and that's fine. We can process that information, which itself is kind of an esoteric, abstract thing to do, and move on to the tangible realities of living with someone.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 6:17 AM on March 22, 2016 [11 favorites]
I nth the recommendation of personal therapy, because processing your partners anxiety, especially about your/their interest level is exhausting. It's like jogging a marathon on eggshells.
Attraction requires energy. I started getting preemptively worried about this topic because I see it so much on askme and was noticing a bit of a slow down. The things I've done that have most deeply re-sparked affection in my marriage are:
1. Go to therapy and not talk about it with my partner
2. Do more work around the house, help them with their work and schedule to maximize their energy
3. Talk to them about things that are not To-dos or the kids
4. lose the 60 pounds I'd gained since we met 15 years ago, and take other steps to elevate my appearance.
Maybe #4 is an unpopular opinion, but in my personal experience it made a huge difference. Sexual attraction isn't always grounded and sophisticated, sometimes the lizard brain needs to be addressed.
posted by French Fry at 7:02 AM on March 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Attraction requires energy. I started getting preemptively worried about this topic because I see it so much on askme and was noticing a bit of a slow down. The things I've done that have most deeply re-sparked affection in my marriage are:
1. Go to therapy and not talk about it with my partner
2. Do more work around the house, help them with their work and schedule to maximize their energy
3. Talk to them about things that are not To-dos or the kids
4. lose the 60 pounds I'd gained since we met 15 years ago, and take other steps to elevate my appearance.
Maybe #4 is an unpopular opinion, but in my personal experience it made a huge difference. Sexual attraction isn't always grounded and sophisticated, sometimes the lizard brain needs to be addressed.
posted by French Fry at 7:02 AM on March 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
You can have a happy, fulfilling, and sexless, marriage and decide that your physical needs will be met elsewhere. That's what you need to come to terms with, and talk about with your partner.
posted by Kwadeng at 8:59 AM on March 22, 2016
posted by Kwadeng at 8:59 AM on March 22, 2016
The exact passage from The Sparrow that late afternoon dreaming hotel mentioned is posted here.
posted by anderjen at 9:27 AM on March 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by anderjen at 9:27 AM on March 22, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yes, it is absolutely possible to rekindle the romance in your relationship. If you want to.
Take a look at Has Your Relationship Gone Stale, and see what you think. I find this way of being and thinking helps me more than any therapy ever has.
I have consulted Pransky and Associates for other issues, but this truly has changed my life,
posted by Altomentis at 12:10 PM on March 22, 2016
Take a look at Has Your Relationship Gone Stale, and see what you think. I find this way of being and thinking helps me more than any therapy ever has.
I have consulted Pransky and Associates for other issues, but this truly has changed my life,
posted by Altomentis at 12:10 PM on March 22, 2016
P.S. They offer a free online mini-course on relationships.
posted by Altomentis at 12:11 PM on March 22, 2016
posted by Altomentis at 12:11 PM on March 22, 2016
I personally can relate to beating the dead horse of wanting to "talk things out" in relationships with men for whom that is a trigger and a total turn off. I am not talking about normal discussions, but raving lunatic rants that comes out when I am triggered and my early childhood wounds rear their ugly head. My marriage ending turned out to be the best possible thing for me, but I do think this type of behavior helped in ending it. The three things that have worked for me:
1. Having one friend who I can text/call/hang-out with and say anything to, and I am that for her as well. We often just text "ex-husband" is a total fucking asshole, and it's enough to know that she is out there and sympathizes with me.
2. Writing long ranty emails to the person I am upset with and sending them to another email account that I no longer use.
3. Antidepressants and Ativan as needed. Antidepressants have really helped me stop obsessing about conflict in relationships. I used to have a track playing in my head where I would go over something again and again, and find myself having conversations with my partner where I said the same thing a million different ways, feeling like he wasn't listening or didn't get it, and not being able to hear what he said. Ativan helps when I feel like I am starting to get out of control over a relationship issue.
Also- I recommend the book "Can Love Last?"
posted by momochan at 7:30 AM on March 23, 2016
1. Having one friend who I can text/call/hang-out with and say anything to, and I am that for her as well. We often just text "ex-husband" is a total fucking asshole, and it's enough to know that she is out there and sympathizes with me.
2. Writing long ranty emails to the person I am upset with and sending them to another email account that I no longer use.
3. Antidepressants and Ativan as needed. Antidepressants have really helped me stop obsessing about conflict in relationships. I used to have a track playing in my head where I would go over something again and again, and find myself having conversations with my partner where I said the same thing a million different ways, feeling like he wasn't listening or didn't get it, and not being able to hear what he said. Ativan helps when I feel like I am starting to get out of control over a relationship issue.
Also- I recommend the book "Can Love Last?"
posted by momochan at 7:30 AM on March 23, 2016
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